Open Sauce Ideas thread

[Dwood]

So... I didn't see anything like this anywhere else so I was thinking that we should at least start a thread like this.

Post your ideas for things that Open Sauce can do to help out your experience playing Open Sauce! (I do not, nor should anyone expect Kornman00 to do this all on his own)

E: If we think a bit, I bet that we can come up with the technical solutions to these problems without coding.

Before we begin, read the following post by Korn:"Little information update for OS CE:

What you can do:

Add new scripting functions\globals
Record the chat box (clients)
Theoretically create new game engines (ie, ctf). I've made significant advances in making this possible, but there is still amounts of work needed to be done, especially on the UI side
Have your Sauced servers\games come up in their own server listing, apart from the general server list (so you can hide or better filter your games from the public)
Multi-team vehicles
Have access to the networking extension code that I was developing. In theory, it should be working, but I have something up somewhere...because it doesn't. Who knows, maybe I'll figure it out before release?
Interface with objects in the current game state (ie, location, a unit's weapons, shield power, etc)
Create your own key bindings for executing custom code (ie, hold shift+g to turn the AI off)
Create menu interfaces a la Battery.
Edit the tags that are in memory
Edit loads of other game state related data
Add your own game event logging (already have some events that are logged while in game)
Modify the camera to your hearts desire
Almost everything from Battery

What you can't do:

Create new object types.
Can't replace the physics engine
Can't replace the rendering engine
Can't add a perfect Forge mode to the engine. You can replicate some of it's features, but in most cases the engine isn't outfit to do it

Both lists can be much longer but I just wanted to give an overview of a few things you can look forward to and to answer any questions people may have." -Korn


1. What team a player is on be transmitted/tracked by server (Me until #4)
2. Syncing doors/bridges etc.
3. Ability to move objects without calling them "vehicles"
4. Increased tag limits
5. Functioning Mancannon (Malloy) (same as grav lift)
6. "Max Payne" Sniper cam (Malloy)
>> Be more precise
7. Walking in/on Vehicles while moving without falling out/off. (Admiral Bacon)
8. Syncing Grav lift function (PopeAK49) (basically same as mancannon)
9. Killcam, where the camera follows the player that killed you until you respawn. (Advancebo)

>> Already happens, perhaps reduce the req for it to show?
>> Not "needed" if #12 is done.

10. Enabling more FP animations (HDoan) +2
>>"I think what Doan meant by enabling more FP animations was having a way to reference more than what we have. For example, if we were to enable sprinting or equipment or something of the sort, we would want to have an FP animation used." - ICEE
10. More than two teams (Not sure if this was said to be impossible or not). Would be pretty interesting. (STLRamsFan)
11. Sprinting (ICEE)
12. "Speaking of the killcam, it would be cool if you could pivot the camera around the player. Maybe even cycling through players with the weapon & grenade buttons?" (jcap)
13. Active Camo Tag (Malloy)
14. Animated projectiles(Malloy)

>> Explain please

15. Prone position (Napalm)
16. Recording demos (Napalm)

>> Is it possible?

17. Sync Ai (Dwood)
18. Medals. Achievements. (18-23 Advancebo) +1 by Napalm
>> Explain how it would work
19. Ingame Voice Chat +1 from Pyong

>> (I doubt that is within Open Sauce's "Practical" section)

20. Real Time Reflection
21. Increase player speed
22. Zombies (H3 Style)
23. More HUD feature
>> Not very precise, please explain
24. taunts, double jump (Pyong Kawaguchi)
25. Tweaking the Recoil System. (T3h Mookz) +1 from Napalm
>>This isn't very clear, please be more precise.
26. Graphical upgrades like normal mapping system. +1 (Killa)
>>Includes shader upgrades
27. Recorded Anims (advancebo)
28. Lunge (killa)
>> i.e., plasma sword
29. Physics upgrade (Killa)
30. Activate "Weapon Ready Tag" (killa)
31. Method for adding new Tags. (Corndogman)
>>Such as a new power up
32. Expansion of Halo Script (Dwood) +1 by Pwn
33. Permutations (include Item permutations) (Pyong)
>>Not only that, but explain further what you mean)
34. Able to use AVI files as UI backgrounds +1 by Advancebo
35. normal maps on tags like shader_model (hunter)
>>What makes this separate from the other graphics upgrades?

36. Increase Player per-server limit (Dwood)
Edit # 2: If you second a suggestion let me know, and I'll put a star or something by it.

37. Increase number of gunner seats in a vehicle +2, Corndog and another person
(hoodedSmack until noted otherwise)
38. Render_camera material
>> What?
39. Bullet_time command. (Mobster) +1 Hunter
>> Like Player speed but slows down everything BUT the player
40. Syncing Slow-Mo. (Hunter) +1 from Mobster
41. (printf formatString [object [object [object ...]]]) (AdmiralBacon)
>> I don't get it. Explain.
42. Shock posted something about Spawn Points and multiple gametypes.
43. Ignoring Pyong on page 6, 90% of that is impossible
44. Jcap posted something I didn't understand:
Regarding the HUD, I have a few things I suggest/wonder if possible.
Several of these things I have in mind are already displayed somewhere else, such as on the F2 Game Info/MOTD screen.

The first thing would be an actual game clock that counts down from the start of a game. It would only be displayed if a time limit is specified, and it would basically be a tag or something that you can set the x and y coords for. It could be similar to the timer in The Maw during the warthog run, such as being able to specify an image for the number font, color, and critical warning.

The second thing is the ability to display the scores of both teams in a two-team game, but only you (and if possible the person in first/second) in a FFA game.

Third, and I'm not sure if this can be done, but the ability to specify a rotation angle for HUD text would be great.

I think that's it I have for now. A lot of these things are simply to bring it more up-to-date with Halo 3, though things like the time I would love to have. I'm sure CAD would love them too.

45. I totally ignored everyone up to Rhydgaled on page 8 because I am 90% sure most of that is impossible
46. Fp animation permutations, that are coordinated with their 3p animation permutation..
Meaning the permuations match up, in both fp and 3p, so you don't see one fp anim, and everyone else sees a different 3p animation.. (KiLLa) +1 from Lone

47. Wide Screen Resolutions: (DEEhunter) [Heck, higher resolutions would be great too!] +1 from Malloy
48. VickJr and AdmiralBacon: (play_bik [file])
49. I want to be able to attach devices and vehicles to another vehicle such that they:
1. Stay still (ie, are actually attached, like the warthog to the Pelican in campaign) and
2. Can still be utilized.
50. proximity doors on vehicles (Malloy)
51. More Fields on Tags (like Can_walk on []) (Hunter)
52. A new Shader_Environment Shader (il Duce Promo) +4 from random people that have no idea what Open Sauce is/can do.
53. object_cannot_take_damage (chrisk123999)
>>>>>>> "A la:
"object_cannot_take_damage (unit (list_get (players) <playerindex>))"

E: Tried the above, it works but seems to randomly switch the invincible person if the person selected to be invincible leaves or gets unit_kill'd. Need something that works on a single person. " - Freelancer54. High Res UI graphics +1 from Timo
>> the ability to increase the visible bounds of widgets from 640x480 up to anything - Timo, page 14

55. gubbin attachment idea (Malloy)
>>?????
56. Function to teleport objects to points on other objects. (Bacon)
>> Technically, I'm looking for an object_teleport with the format of objects_attach: -object_teleport object string object string
57. attach trigger volumes to objects (MissingSpartan7)
58. allowing more object types in the attatchments box (Rhydgaled) +1 from Bacon
>> " It would also be really nice if an attached proximity door still detected a biped presence... then I could just add more doors as attachments with no extra scripting..." (page 15 by bacon)
59. Function that treats teams and their players as objects for use with volume triggers.
i.e. (Simplified version) If(Volume_test (blue_team) true)

60. Some kind of blur/disortation effect on engines and heat. Like is does on most games, and Halo 3. I would of thought it can be done because the game already has disortation coded in. (Hunter)

61. Can we get a sort of "campaign scoring" system like in Halo 3? Or at the very least some way to easily trigger something when a kill is made in a campaign. Rob Oplawar wanted Cerebrum-Synapse to track his Bridge campaign, and I don't see much point unless we can do scoring. (AdmiralBacon, also known as Klange)

62. Small idea, what about a landing/damage FP animation? Something Halo lacked? (Mookz)


Animations like holster (played when weapon is put away), stealth-melee (special animation played when the melee attack that's thrown will be instant kill, like a Spy backstab), light-on/off, fall-damage, melee combo animations (a la E3 Halo 2, named melee-1/2/3), and such. And these special case animations would inhibit any player actions until they finish; doesn't make sense to be firing off a weapon when the MC's hands are yanked off-screen to support his weight when he fell. And if these animations do not exist in the tag, they aren't called and things continue as normal (if there's no stealth-melee or melee combo animations, the normal melee attack is played in all circumstances)

62 Also, would it be too much to ask for FP animation permutation support and the ability to use glow tags on FP weapons? (polar)

^^^^^ This idea has been 50% accomplished. Glow tags are not useable (yet?)

[Malloy]

functioning mancannon?
if possible 'Max Payne' sniper cam? lol would own.

[klange]

Walking in/on vehicles while they're moving (without falling out/off). There are a number of possibilities for how to do this.

[PopeAK49]

A grav lift function that would sync would be cool.

[Advancebo]

Killcam, where the camera follows the player that killed you until you respawn.

[HDoan]

Enabling more FP animations.

[Malloy]

Killcam, where the camera follows the player that killed you until you respawn.

shut it revenge killing noob.

If anything make it black screen for more sheer skill needed luls.

[STLRamsFan]

More than two teams (Not sure if this was said to be impossible or not). Would be pretty interesting.

[ICEE]

sprinting

[Dwood]

sprinting

Nice one, that's not even in Halo 3 lol.

[jcap]

Speaking of the killcam, it would be cool if you could pivot the camera around the player. Maybe even cycling through players with the weapon & grenade buttons?

[ICEE]

Also, I second Doan's idea about adding more fp anims because it is relevant to my interests. Also necessary for my idea to work

[Limited]

Killcam, where the camera follows the player that killed you until you respawn.
Already happens. You just spawn too quickly. I was playing around with spawn time counter, froze it and it went to this "killcam" thing you want.

Currently just requires a high spawn time.

[Malloy]

Sync buttons and doors and shit cleanly without this biped compremise.

What about Vehicular Active camo options... hell fuck it, make an Active camo tag which can be used for vehicles, scenery... anything. would be cool what people use it for.

animated projectiles please?

erm energy drinks dont stimulate me at all just make my type shit.

[Napalm]

I think he meant somthing like cod's killcam, where you have the option to watch yourself being killed.
Now Im going to say a bunch of random crap 2 ;D
Prone
recording demo's. I don't know jack about OS so I don't know if this would be remotely possible.

[Dwood]

I just had 2 ideas: World persistency (Player's points are the same as when they exited the game) would need some restrictions however if someone thinks it's a good idea let's brainstorm it a bit.

and another, which was obvious, was the Ai Sync problem. We should have the server be the one broadcasting the ai to the clients in this case, and not even allow the clients to spawn their "own" ai, the server just sends the ai info over to the clients.

Also, check the OP for ideas you like and want to be seconded. If Korn comes in here he can order the ideas from *easy* to *impossible* to accomplish with Open Sauce.

[Advancebo]

Medals. Achievements. Ingame Voice Chat. Real Time Reflection. Increase player speed. Zombies (H3 Style). More HUD features.

[Napalm]

Medals, haw about a ranking system like in CoD ;P

[Advancebo]

Or in Halo 3 :B

Actually I liked the CoD ranking system better. Its much more simple and it still does what it does.

[Pyong Kawaguchi]

Voice chat, taunts, double jump

[t3h m00kz]

Just throwing this out there, but how difficult would tweaking the recoil system be? Like, say, something similar to Counter Strike where the recoil goes up and up, hits a limit, and then comes back down into place?

Also: Max Payne, not Mac Payne on OP

[SMASH]

graphical upgrades like normal mapping would be awesome

[Advancebo]

And an easier to use shader setup.

[Vicky]

Put the good things from h2v in it (if any) so we can just dump it in the trash...

[Napalm]

Just throwing this out there, but how difficult would tweaking the recoil system be? Like, say, something similar to Counter Strike where the recoil goes up and up, hits a limit, and then comes back down into place?

Also: Max Payne, not Mac Payne on OP
I support this post. It's something that doesn't sound too hard to implement but would make the difference of the game.. that sounded weird.

If you've noticed the recoil goes in the shape of a T, I think if we could do that it would be awesum.

[Heathen]

a T?

[Dwood]

Just updated the OP. Either keep the ideas coming or give a +1 to ideas you like on the OP. this would be great so we can prioritize. (can't prioritize the impossible however I don't know what is/isn't unless Korn posts etc)

[Advancebo]

Recorded animations

[Ki11a_FTW]

graphical upgrades like normal mapping would be awesome

Pretty much this.

Shader Environments with working functions of shader model tags (like multipurpose maps)

Enable the function in the shader environment tag "bumped radiosity"
(supposed to baked the normals into the texture, currently does nothing"

Getting the lunge to work

Physics upgrades

Enable the "weapon ready" animation in a biped animation tag. (currently does nothing when applied)

thats all i can really think of right now


Recorded animations

The code for moving the vehicle when making recorded animations has been completely removed

[Delta4907]

Prone MAY be possible already, because I had an idea on how to do it, and I think Me [KS] came up with a script for it to work, although I never really got to it. Anyways, you would animate the positions in 3ds, probably about 4+ animations (not entirely sure), then give them each a prefix of prone, like the "alert" animations already in the cyborg.model_animations. Then, after added to to the original animation tag, a script would be used so that pressing Q (or whatever your flashlight would be) would make the player go into the "prone" mode. This already works for going into "alert" mode, because I've tested it ingame, and I could use all, but limited to, the animations with the alert prefix. I have some pics of me getting this ingame sort of, but it's nowhere near completion. The only problem I've seen is that this does not sync, because when I tested going into "alert" mode, the other player saw me running, but warping back a bit so it would keep up with my position. However, I may have an alternate solution on how to get this to sync on everyones computer.

[Dwood]

Also: Max Payne, not Mac Payne on OP

fixed.

[Corndogman]

Maybe some new types of power ups. Its been a while since i toyed with them, but iirc theres only the few set types of them. Maybe its possible to add some new powerup tags with unique properties.

[Advancebo]

Or get the other powerups to work properly.

[PwN Lone]

Ok, before this thread becomes a crap-hole of stuff that is quite impossible with Open-Sauce, I think a quick copynpaste from Korn's original OS thread would be nice where he states what is and is not possible with OS.

*goes to find it*

"Little information update for OS CE:

What you can do:

Add new scripting functions\globals
Record the chat box (clients)
Theoretically create new game engines (ie, ctf). I've made significant advances in making this possible, but there is still amounts of work needed to be done, especially on the UI side
Have your Sauced servers\games come up in their own server listing, apart from the general server list (so you can hide or better filter your games from the public)
Multi-team vehicles
Have access to the networking extension code that I was developing. In theory, it should be working, but I have something fucked up somewhere...because it doesn't. Who knows, maybe I'll figure it out before release?
Interface with objects in the current game state (ie, location, a unit's weapons, shield power, etc)
Create your own key bindings for executing custom code (ie, hold shift+g to turn the AI off)
Create menu interfaces a la Battery.
Edit the tags that are in memory
Edit loads of other game state related data
Add your own game event logging (already have some events that are logged while in game)
Modify the camera to your hearts desire
Almost everything from Battery

What you can't do:

Create new object types.
Can't replace the physics engine
Can't replace the rendering engine
Can't add a perfect Forge mode to the engine. You can replicate some of it's features, but in most cases the engine isn't outfit to do it

Both lists can be much longer but I just wanted to give an overview of a few things you can look forward to and to answer any questions people may have." -Korn

The only thing I 'really' want in this list new script functions or globals. Mainly, multiple permutations, being able to differentiate between certain player, having a game only start (new gametype) when the match is full.

[Dwood]

I am 100% for the expansion of Halo Script. Not only that, but it would be awesome if we could change it so that the syntax was more understandable. I know it would be tough but I think that if we adopted a more java-esque syntax then more people would be able to learn how to code in HaloScript.

Heck, if I knew what section of Open Sauce Halo Script was on, I would edit it myself lol.



The only thing I 'really' want in this list new script functions or globals. Mainly, multiple permutations, being able to differentiate between certain player, having a game only start (new gametype) when the match is full.

I don't think you need multiple permutations... we need players to be able to switch models through halo Script. This way they wouldn't have to use the same rigging/boneset. (Ergo, you can be an elite without any problems)

[Dwood]

Delete this post pls

[Pyong Kawaguchi]

Permutations
Item permutations
ingame web browser
Able to use AVI files as UI backgrounds

[Dwood]

ingame web browser


Say hello to xfire.

[Hunter]

I would kill for normal maps on tags like shader_model ect...

[Advancebo]

Able to use AVI files as UI backgrounds

Seconds.
It takes forever to convert an AVI to a BIK file.

[FireScythe]

As the camera is freely editable I'd love to see even basic head tracking (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BduSDvUU6MY) using a webcam.

[klange]

Can we up the maximum seat count in vehicles? My particular project requires a significant number of seats. They don't need to be used at once, but they all need to be there. The current limit is a bit too low for me... 8 if I remember correctly, I'd like something more along the lines of 64.

(Also, +1 on vehicular active camo, I'd love to cloak a ship)

[CtrlAltDestroy]

Can we up the maximum seat count in vehicles? My particular project requires a significant number of seats. They don't need to be used at once, but they all need to be there. The current limit is a bit too low for me... 8 if I remember correctly, I'd like something more along the lines of 64.

(Also, +1 on vehicular active camo, I'd love to cloak a ship)

You can increase maximum tag blocks without OS. You can also cloak vehicles with some clever tagwork.

[klange]

Huh. You'll have to point me in the right direction on that in a PM.

[Dwood]

Oh yes, Another thing I would love to see is an increase in the number of players possible in a server running Open Sauce. Who's with me?

[thehoodedsmack]

Increase number of gunner seats in a vehicle?
Render_camera material?

I don't exactly know what OS is or isn't capable of, to be honest, so I'm just throwing in some things off my wish-list. >__<

[Advancebo]

Huh. You'll have to point me in the right direction on that in a PM.

Its a shader attached to when you press crouch or shift. And it makes the vehicle clear. Like what the Tachikomas do on Hugeass.

[Corndogman]

Increase number of gunner seats in a vehicle?
Render_camera material?

Was just about to say multiple gunner seats. so a second on that.

and whats render_camera material?

Also, I doubt this is at all possible, but would you be able to implement anti-aliasing?

[thehoodedsmack]

and whats render_camera material?


Think security camera.

[HDoan]

Couldn't you make a seat with a built in gunner, and the gunner is set to be invisible?

[Advancebo]

Couldn't you make a seat with a built in gunner, and the gunner is set to be invisible?

That wont work for MP.

[English Mobster]

Ooh! Rippable turrets like in H3!

A "bullet_time" command, which modifies speed for everything BUT the player (ex. "bullet_time 0.25" would make everything move super slowly around the player, "bullet_time 0" would freeze everything BUT the player, "bullet_time 2" would make everything go twice as fast.

Also, a "player_speed" command. Unlike bullet_time, this would increase/decrease the speed of the player, without slowing anything else down.

These two could be used together for a "Mythic" run through a SP campaign, with "bullet_time 2" to speed everything up and "player_speed .5" to slow down the player, making everything MUCH harder.

[klange]

Its a shader attached to when you press crouch or shift. And it makes the vehicle clear. Like what the Tachikomas do on Hugeass.
First off, that's just not the same; second, I was referring to increasing my max seat count.

[Hunter]

Slow Mo? Which syncs? So EVERYTHING/Everything apart from the player moves at a set speed, so you could run around a rocket or bullets ect... Like English Mobster said.

[klange]

This may seem fairly pointless, but can we get a (printf formatString [object [object [object ...]]]) function for scripting? Particularly for easy debugging in-game.

[Rhydgaled]

Post moved to later page, I've added an extra idea too.

[FRain]

There is a way to do lunging, and it's been done, but over MP its incredibly laggy.

[Shock120]

Change Spawning system.
Being able to change it to that of another gametype's.
like CTF, Team slayer or maybe Co-op (where allies respawn near each other)

[Pyong Kawaguchi]

+1 for increased playercount

Preformance optimizations

Support for decals on 8000 series GFX cards

Wider range of visual settings

visual settings saved in a cfg file in a similar way as oblivion, or crysis

Animated reticules

Better netcode (bullet syncing)

AI stationary turrets (like the ones on snowbound)

Multiple map formats (able to use simple map formats, like quake 1 or quake 2 since they all use bsp map styles)

HL2 map support :3

Shader Module 3.0 support/emulation

Sandbox game mode (like gmod, but in halo)

Support for lua scripts and gametypes (like gmod, again, lol)

Support with gmod addons (if the above are allowed, or with a special converter)

Full RTR shadows, Dynamic lighting (both soft, and hard lights, chosen by user preference, or the map itself)

External Rcon app for controlling and monitoring the server and chat without having to enter the game.

use IRC chat system ingame, allowing the above to be possible, or atleast easier.

Customizable armor

Custom player models (like ut3 and ut2k4)

[Heathen]

+1 for increased playercount

Preformance optimizations

Support for decals on 8000 series GFX cards

Wider range of visual settings

visual settings saved in a cfg file in a similar way as oblivion, or crysis

Animated reticules

Better netcode (bullet syncing)

AI stationary turrets (like the ones on snowbound)

Multiple map formats (able to use simple map formats, like quake 1 or quake 2 since they all use bsp map styles)

HL2 map support :3

Shader Module 3.0 support/emulation

Sandbox game mode (like gmod, but in halo)

Support for lua scripts and gametypes (like gmod, again, lol)

Support with gmod addons (if the above are allowed, or with a special converter)

Full RTR shadows, Dynamic lighting (both soft, and hard lights, chosen by user preference, or the map itself)

External Rcon app for controlling and monitoring the server and chat without having to enter the game.

use IRC chat system ingame, allowing the above to be possible, or atleast easier.

Customizable armor

Custom player models (like ut3 and ut2k4)
lots of that is impossible afaik

[Dwood]

I'm not going to post any of those until we know what of that is possible or impossible.

[leorimolo]

Make the netcode better by simply confirming that host said yes to every kill. I'm trying to talk about halo ce how the host has to confirm every kill to make sure there is no cheating, remove that and trust client leading to a much better netcode.

[Dwood]

Make the netcode better by simply confirming that host said yes to every kill. I'm trying to talk about halo ce how the host has to confirm every kill to make sure there is no cheating, remove that and trust client leading to a much better netcode.

I can tell you the answer to that right now.

[Hunter]

Real time shadows would be awesome.

[Kornman00]

1. This is already done, I don't understand what more is being requested
2. Possible with working networking extensions
3. Not feesible without source (NFWOS)
4. Already in Yelo
5. IDK
6. Local effect, wouldn't be that hard as long as the programmer knows their stuff
7. Would probably be a rather ugly hack if its done
8. ?
9. Explain how its limited currently.
10. NFWOS
11. Possible with working networking extensions
12. Pivot the camera? a la Halo 3?
13. IDK
14. Explain please, I don't see how this isn't possible already
15. Don't think so
16. Won't be able to play them back...
17. For the last time. No.
18. If you can figure out how to code it
19. Plenty of other 3rd party programs to do this. Compartmentalization.
20. IIRC, Xbox did this, did they not carry over in PC?
21. Already possible
22. New game engines can be registered with Yelo, however its not a setup you can just plug-and-play, so your own research would need to be done
23. Explain
24. ...
25. Explain
26. NFWOS
27. IDK
28. Possible with working networking extensions
29. NFWOS
30. What?
31. You'd realize you would also have code the affects for this right?
32. Syntax changing isn't in the scope of Yelo. As long as you compile it into the proper expression tree, you can do the syntax however you like.
33. Explain
34. ...
35. Wasn't normal maps already requested? See that question's answer
36. How many times can I say no? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no- going to stop myself right there and end with a big NFWOS.

[klange]

Hey, I never +1'd #36, stop making me look bad ;)

Good to hear that vehicular traversal is feasible. Maybe I'll look into it myself later...

[Dwood]

See, Korn, this thread is what I guess we could call a "bringing us back down to earth" thread. And since you practically made Open Sauce, there's no one better to do it I guess xD.

[Kornman00]

See, Korn, this thread is what I guess we could call a "bringing us back down to earth" thread.
Well then...Prepare to Drop

[Choking Victim]

And since you practically made Open Sauce...
He didn't practically make it, he made it.

[ICEE]

I think what Doan meant by enabling more FP animations was having a way to reference more than what we have. For example, if we were to enable sprinting or equipment or something of the sort, we would want to have an FP animation used.

[jcap]

Regarding the HUD, I have a few things I suggest/wonder if possible.

Several of these things I have in mind are already displayed somewhere else, such as on the F2 Game Info/MOTD screen.

The first thing would be an actual game clock that counts down from the start of a game. It would only be displayed if a time limit is specified, and it would basically be a tag or something that you can set the x and y coords for. It could be similar to the timer in The Maw during the warthog run, such as being able to specify an image for the number font, color, and critical warning.

The second thing is the ability to display the scores of both teams in a two-team game, but only you (and if possible the person in first/second) in a FFA game.

Third, and I'm not sure if this can be done, but the ability to specify a rotation angle for HUD text would be great.

I think that's it I have for now. A lot of these things are simply to bring it more up-to-date with Halo 3, though things like the time I would love to have. I'm sure CAD would love them too.


----------


Also, about that deathcam thing. Yeah, it would be like Halo 3. It would sit on your player until you click a mouse button to cycle forward or backwards. Then, you can use your mouse to rotate around them.

[t3h m00kz]

1. Animated crosshairs.
2. Crouching improves accuracy, moving/jumping decreases accuracy.
3. "HEADSHOT!" announcer.
4. More Double kill! Triple kill! Killtacular! MONSTER KILL! announcer slots
5. More Killing spree! Running riot! JESUS TITTY FUCKING CHRIST! announcer slots.

As for the Recoil system, I was thinking something along the lines of.. let's say you start firing. You're aim goes up, and your bullets spread out. Release the trigger, you're aim is back in it's original position, after spraying bullets in a T shape. Honestly though, it seems like it'd be a bit complicated.

E: Sorry if some are dupes.

[Inferno]

Hit detection online so I don't have to fucking lead.

[t3h m00kz]

^ This times infinity.. Even if it's not possible, I can hold my breath.

Oh my god please... It would make it so much easier to emulate Halo 3 if the NETCODE worked right... :ohdear:

[Rhydgaled]

Section One - Quote With My Comments
Using the list from the first post, I'm just going to make some suggestions. I have no idea what is possible and what isn't. In many cases I'm just trying to further explain what could be done or a possible back route that might help get it done.


1. What team a player is on be transmitted/tracked by server Method to allow different bipeds (or at least permitations of the same biped) for each team. Also other different traits for each team, such as starting weapons (even more likely to be impossible), sheild strength, speed, jump height etc. UPDATE: You might be able to do some of this (especially starting weapons for each team, maybe not biped perms though) in your project_yelo scenario tag.
3. Ability to move objects without calling them "vehicles" Allow objects such as .scenary tags that have a physics tag asigned to them actually have physics, just the same as vehicle physics. If somebody then wants some scenary without physics, as it is now, they can just leave the physics box in guerila blank. To refrase that, I think there is already a slot for a physics tag in the .scenary tags anyway, but it would be nice if it would work.
6. Walking in/on Vehicles while moving without falling out/off. (Admiral Bacon) Expand accepted tag types in the attachments or widgets section (currently you can only have stuff like antenas) to include stuff like device machines, so you can attach a device machine to avoid falling off. The device machine in most cases would probablly just be a simple col lison-only model. EDIT: As Admiral Bacon said later, it would be nice to be able to attach proximity doors and other vehices too. The slot for attachments is there, but is adding to it's accepted tag types within the scope of open sauce?
9. Enabling more FP animations (HDoan) Look up and look down animations would be good, so sombody can add fp legs. Also somebody suggested an animation to reload the secondary trigger, and as I have suggested full-auto to semi-auto switching during zooming an animation for zooming in, then one for zooming back out, could be useful too (maybe you could even add a scilencer).
16. Recording demos (Napalm) recording the game (saved films) would be nice, playing them back would probablly be even harder though EDIT: Kornman has said it was impossible.
18. Medals. Achievements. (18-23 Advancebo) +1 by Napalm Comments Moved To Section Two.
20. Real Time Reflection Shader enviroments on non-bsp objects, although it's not as simple as that, you can put a shader_transparent_glass with dynamic mirror on a .gbxmodel and it doesn't work (I think), also I think Kornman has now said it cant be done.
22. Zombies (H3 Style) If it can be done, other game varients could be added too, like VIP.
28. Lunge (killa) Didn't The_Arbiter from Sigma find a way to do that with just tags? if not, try to replicate Arbiter's script in C++ code.
33. Permutations (include Item permutations) (Pyong) Do randomly selected model permetations on a gun change when the gun is picked up? if not there shouldn't be any need for the sauce here (unless I mis-understood what you want to do)
34. Able to use AVI files as UI backgrounds +1 by Advancebo Comments Moved To Section Two.

Section Two - Extended Elaboration On Other's Ideas
(2.)A. - Medals. Achievements. (18-23 Advancebo) +1 by Napalm
More "triple kill", "over kill", "killtacular" slots would be nice (not that I've ever got more than an overkill in HALO 3 matchmaking anyway), and "killing spree", "killing frensy", "running riot" slots too. A "perfection" medal (called out in the same way as double kill, killing spree etc.) could be an interesting medal too, and a new one "Unfreaking Beliveable" which is if you get a perfection with more than 45 kills. As for achivements, maybe you could add new items to the profile's saved game files, like if they have ever achived a killing frensy or a triple kill or saved a particular marine in a certain campaign mod. It would be good if you could add some more settings too, maybe including model permetation selection which would only effect compatable maps. Some of these new settings (model permitations mainly) could be unlocked based on which "achivements" have been completed, a "service record" page could be added to UIs by UI creators which show the player's current level (already shown in-game) and which of the "achivements" have been completed. Unfortunately I can't be of any help implementing any of this, and much of the other stuff too.

(2.)B. - Able to use AVI files as UI backgrounds +1 by Advancebo
No, I think there's a better way. Instead of .avi files, we need animated .bitmap tags (like animated .gifs), so you can just stick one in the background image slot of the UI_widget_definiton. A special new tool command to take a folder of image files (exported from a video) and turn them into a perfectly set up animated.bitmap tag would be needed (or at least very, very helpfull) for this. A script allowing you to play .bik files (unless ending.bik is called by script anyway) would be a good related addition. (You could save tagspace by screen-recording all cutscenes then replacing them with calls to .bik files or call a .bik file if the user is idle at the main menu long enough (like the trailer thing that shows up in HALO 2 and HALO 3)). NOTE: Note that I have several other posts in this thread disscussing these ideas, this one esspecially.

(2.)C. - Split-Screen Co-op
Now, it has been said syncing ai is impossible, but how about re-enabling split-screen co-op. As you may know, two player co-op in campaign was available in the XBOX version of HALO via split-screen (not LAN, AI doesn't sync, as most members know). If possible I would very much like to be able to do this on PC, with a choice of using the keyboard (and mouse) for one player and a gamepad for the other or gamepads for both players. This would probally still be impossible, but is it?

(2.)D. - Corrolation between first and third person
There are two parts to this idea, each brought up by different pepole. The first part by KiLLa.

It's possible to make variations(aka permuations) of animations in 3p only currently, but it's not possible in fp, and if it was via OS, it would be nice if both animations matched up when played.Also, PwN Lone mentioned a corrolation of fp and 3p models, to avoid playing as an elite or marine and still having Spartan arms. At present though the fp arms model is defined in the globals tag, that would need to be moved to each biped tag or unit_hud_interface tag (which makes me think it wouldn't be possible) if you expect to be able to bump posess other bipeds and see a change in fp arms.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________
Section Three - New (And New-ish) Ideas

Also, I have new ideas, these are the ones that I'm bringing forward, the above were just elaborating on ideas already here:
Checkbox making a projectile with the "giuded angular volocity" (eg. needler) only use that against vehicles, and otherwise act as if it has a "giuded angular volocity" of 0 (or whatever no homeing is). Leave the box unchecked to have it home in on bipeds too. Essentially this is just a method of re-creating the missle pod and HALO 2 rocket launcher (ok you won't have the second recticle that follows the vehicle to show you've locked on, but that's not really needed). Alternativlly, maybe you could have a .vehicle_seaking_projectile tag which does this, and make the projectile slot in .weapon tags able to hold either a normal .projectile or a .vehicle_seaking_projectile.
Extra Grenade Types (up to five or six grenade types maybe). The tag that lists the grenade types (globals?) looks like you could just press the add button and add more, but it won't let you press the add button.
Method to make the UI detect the folder the bsp for the map is in, and if it is the same as an exsisting map make it a varient of the exsisting map. (I didn't put that very well, think HALO 3 Forge varients). This would mean bloodgultch ai and all other bloodgultch mods would appear under the original bloodgultch after you click bloodgultch.
While we're on the subject of the map select screen, can you actually get the game to assign a string list index (and bitmap index) other than the "unknown level" one to custom maps, or would that require Open Sauce? maybe the .project_yelo scenario tag?
Checkbox in a damage effect tag that makes the damage effect stall the engine of any vehicle affected. (HALO 3 Plasma Pistol and Power Drainer), by stall I mean the EMP (or whatever it is) turns the engine off (so there are no engine sounds, but no silly sparks like HALO 3 has) and it is a while before the engine will start again. Again, Sigma may have worked out how to do this all with just tags, if not, open the sauce. EDIT: You say you can't add checkboxes to tags, so maybe you can have a special .vehicle_stalling_damage_effect tag instead (much like I suggested for homing projectiles.)
Somthing to allow re-assignment of the say to vehicle button or the extra weapon pick-up button (you can do it with action button, so you don't need a pick-up button too) (Sigma's equipment is set to replace flashlight, if you could re-assign somthing else instead you could still have your flashlight). (I suggested several alternative buttons to be re-assigned and was told flashlight was the only button that would work, no idea why).
Duel weilding? (VERY much doubt it's possible) with a duel-able checkbox in weapon tags. Maybe if you are holding a weapon with a duel-able attribbute set to true, then it constantly checks any weapons on the ground that you see a pick-up prompt for a duel-able attribbute that is set to true and if it finds one prompts you to press some other button (I suggest the zoom button, as you can't zoom with a duel-weildable weapon) to swap for a weapon with two guns in one. Here's where you get a problem, as you have no idea what weapon to swap to and you also need to pass the current ammo of both weapons to the current ammo of each trigger in the paired weapon. If you can get past that hurdle then re-assign zoom as a second secondary trigger button (so you can press either your zoom button or grenade button and it will fire the secondary trigger) and change melee to a button that drops a weapon and switches yours back to a standard weapon.
Ability to have a different trigger on a weapon when zoomed (allowing single-shot when zoomed, full auto when not zoomed), if this is not already possible with the HEK (if it is possible, could someone expain how please). Also I would like a checkbox in either the .weapon tag or a special .yelo_weapon tag that makes the weapon able to do this, but when you zoom in the magnification doesn't increase and the fp gun and arms remain visible, it just changes to single shot (but recticles and scope masks that are set to show only when zoomed should still show).
Script commands to open and close UI widgets, and to replace a widget with another (<widget tag>replace self with<widget tag>). My UI problem is getting me down a little at the moment, and I think being able to run scripts to replace a bunch of widgets with others at once would help alot.
More Vehicle Types (this might have been mentioned before). At present these include human plane, alien fighter, alien scout and human jeep (maybe more.) I'm not exactlly sure what they do, but some more could be useful (there's a human boat type in there too, if that actually could be used to make boats float it could be useful). This might also be why flying vehicles can't travel sideways (so I'm told, I keep meaning to attempt to prove everyone wrong, probablly to fail spectaculally), so a new vehicle type that allows sideways flying could help with a HALO 3 style Hornet vehicle.
Can you make the HUD show what your secondary weapon is just with HEK? I've never seen it done so I assume not, could this be done with Open Sauce? To explain what I mean, in HALO 2&3 a smaller version of the pickup icon for whatever weapon you have on your back or leg (or in your magic pocket in HALO 2) that is shown on your HUD. Can't really explain it more than that.
Could you implement an overhead map on the F1 or F2 key for campaign (equivelent to the back button on controler), with a system to create your own waypoints and view positions of Cortana's waypoints? I doubt it's possible but after HALO 3: Recon's VISR and mentions of the Cheif setting his own waypoints in the books I had to suggest it when the idea came to me.
Another idea that I doubt would be possible is some kind of sqaud control system, like Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter on the XBOX 360. This would have one button to send your friends to where you are looking (D-Pad up if this was the 360), another to get them to regroup at your current possition (D-Pad down) and one to toggle between control of individual members and being able to give the same order to all commandable troops at once (D-Pad right, flashlight could be on D-Pad left). The control scheme buttons could be set to whatever keyboard or mouse button you want via settings, I was just giving controls assuming an XBOX 360 controler as I haven't played PC games much in a while. You'd have to get new button slots to do it though, you can't re-assign enough of the current commands, just one of many reasons I doubt this idea is possible.

[Syuusuke]

Portal.

[Hunter]

Maybe a particle blur effect for engines heat?

[KiLLa]

I don't remember adding any ideas XD
and what the fuck does NFWOS mean anywho?
My suggestion would be fp animation permutations, that are coordinated with their 3p animation permutation..
Meaning the permuations match up, in both fp and 3p, so you don't see one fp anim, and everyone else sees a different 3p animation..
Probally just day dreaming tho..ah well..

[Delta4907]

I don't remember adding any ideas XD
and what the fuck does NFWOS mean anywho?
He said in his post that he'd use NFWOS instead of "Not Feasible without Source (Code)" after he mentioned it the first time.

[PwN Lone]

I don't remember adding any ideas XD
and what the fuck does NFWOS mean anywho?
My suggestion would be fp animation permutations, that are coordinated with their 3p animation permutation..
Meaning the permuations match up, in both fp and 3p, so you don't see one fp anim, and everyone else sees a different 3p animation..
Probally just day dreaming tho..ah well..


This please, goddamn it would make things so much better if the fp permutation corrolated with the 3p permutation. Instead of having an elite with spartan arms, talk about off-putting.

[Rhydgaled]

This please, goddamn it would make things so much better if the fp permutation corrolated with the 3p permutation. Instead of having an elite with spartan arms, talk about off-putting.
The post you quoted was refering to animations, not the model I think. However I like both the animation and model permatation ideas, if they can be done they should be done, so the fp and 3p match up.

At present the fp arms model is defined in the globals tag, that would need to be moved to each biped tag (which makes me think it wouldn't be possible) if you expect to be able to bump posess other bipeds and see a change in fp arms.

I've just updated my post from a page or two back, please don't overlook it when you come to tell us what isn't possible and what is.

[p0lar_bear]

For #34, I think it would be better to use Bink video, since the game already uses it, it has free official coding tools (RAD Game Tools), and it's a defined codec (whereas an AVI file can be encoded with any given format, like Cinepak, Windows Media, or MPEG-4). In fact, would it be possible to have a ui_widget_definition_os tag with the "movie" type reinstated? I'll elaborate on what I'm looking for below.

I +1 #27 as well. Sapien seems to still have stuff in it for recorded animations, but the problem is that Sapien doesn't accept player input, so all you can do is record a biped or vehicle standing there, doing nothing.

-Right, movie widgets. What crappens there is that you select it to be the movie type, define the bounds, and further down the tag, define an external (meaning not within the map cache file) BIK file and a placeholder bitmap (internal) in the event that the BIK file is missing or can't be loaded, and then a timeout in seconds before the video is loaded and played. Implementation? Level previews. Take what we have now for the level select screen, but if you keep one option selected for a few seconds, a video starts playing, like a teaser trailer. Kinda like the game select screen for the console version of the Orange Box. The defined bounds would clip the video (so if you had a 200x150px video and you set the widget to be only 150x150, it would cut off 50 px of the width), unless making it scale/squash the video to fit the bounds is less work can clipping it.

-Would it also be possible to make models animate in the UI? Right now, if you place a biped or animated scenery into a UI, it will freeze in place. I had to make scenery versions of the Chief and Spark with a fixed pose for my Library UI.

[Rhydgaled]

For #34, I think it would be better to use Bink video, since the game already uses it, it has free official coding tools (RAD Game Tools), and it's a defined codec (whereas an AVI file can be encoded with any given format, like Cinepak, Windows Media, or MPEG-4). In fact, would it be possible to have a ui_widget_definition_os tag with the "movie" type reinstated? I'll elaborate on what I'm looking for below.I've just updated my post from a page or two back, I added more about videos and widgets. See that post for my opinon on some of this.


Would it also be possible to make models animate in the UI? Right now, if you place a biped or animated scenery into a UI, it will freeze in place.
I second this idea. By the way the dust emmiter (and probablly others) doesn't work either (I once had a UI of my HALO 3 Anouncement map and the grunt sign animated scenery wouldn't animate and the dust wasn't there.)

[p0lar_bear]

No, I think there's a better way. Instead of .avi files, we need animated .bitmap tags (like animated .gifs), so you can just stick one in the background image slot of the UI_widget_definiton. A special new tool command to take a folder of image files (exported from a video) and turn them into a perfectly set up animated.bitmap tag would be needed (or at least very, very helpfull) for this.I would imagine the overhead, not to mention the work needed on the end-user's part, for that would be more than it's worth.


A script allowing you to play .bik files (unless ending.bik is called by script anyway) would be a good related addition. (You could save tagspace by screen-recording all cutscenes then replacing them with calls to .bik files or call a .bik file if the user is idle at the main menu long enough (like the trailer thing that shows up in HALO 2 and HALO 3)).That would be a cool idea. Right now bink calls are hardcoded; it looks for bungie.bik, gearbox.bik, and mgs.bik on startup, and then plays ending.bik after the credits, when THOSE are called after running (game_won) on d40.map.

e: Another idea; support for a reload-2 animation for fake dualies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ400x8BhgA) or more conventional secondary-trigger weapons (e.g. grenade launchers). However, I don't know exactly how to go about making it work; if we made it into an overlay animation, it would work for dual weapons, but look weird if you reloaded both magazines at once on, say, the BRG. Perhaps add a flag somewhere to the weapons that, when checked, disables all triggers on a weapon until reloading is complete for either magazine?

Ooh, another one: is it possible to fix the double-melee glitch (throw a punch, when it hits, toss a grenade and immediately follow up with another punch)?

[bobbysoon]

also, enter and exit vehicle-2 would be pretty cool, make the scorpion's 2nd hatch functional for a turret operator.
hit-testing scenery and other objects in sapien, for while placing and moving objects?
tool scripts_compile to speed up script debugging
maps\<mapname>.dll plugin support

[DEElekgolo]

Realtime bump mapping system.
AA
Light attenuation?
Wide screen resolutions
A better reflection system.
Custom HLSL shaders.

[p0lar_bear]

Realtime bump mapping system.
AA
Light attenuation?
Wide screen resolutions
A better reflection system.
Custom HLSL shaders.

Korn's said time and time again, can't do much in the way of shader-related things without the actual source code.

[KiLLa]

He said in his post that he'd use NFWOS instead of "Not Feasible without Source (Code)" after he mentioned it the first time.
Well excuse me for not hanging on every word typed..
Could have just explained the meaning, ina non assfaced like manner :)

Anywho, I was referring to animations, not models.
It's possible to make variations(aka permuations) of animations in 3p only currently, but it's not possible in fp, and if it was via OS, it would be nice if both animations matched up when played..
If you look at the elites 3p sword animations you'll notice what I'm talking about..

[Rhydgaled]

I would imagine the overhead, not to mention the work needed on the end-user's part, for that would be more than it's worth.That's why I said about a new tool command to automaticly take a whole folder of images and set them up as an animated.bitmap for you. Maybe the command could be like this:
tool animated_bitmap <folder path> <animation framerate (frames per second)> I think there are also a few video editing programs that can export every frame of a video in .tif format for you, all you would need to do is move them to you HALO data folder. The animated bitmaps would have to be compiled as interface bitmaps of course, video clips tend not to be power of two dimensions (I think).


Right now bink calls are hardcoded; it looks for bungie.bik, gearbox.bik, and mgs.bik on startup, and then plays ending.bik after the credits, when THOSE are called after running (game_won) on d40.map.Ok, I knew the first three must have been coded into the game's .exe but I thourght ending.bik might have been script called.


Another idea; support for a reload-2 animation for fake dualies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ400x8BhgA) or more conventional secondary-trigger weapons (e.g. grenade launchers).Good idea, also my idea of zooming to switch between primary and secondary triggers could use a zoom in and zoom out animation (those could be used to rasie the scope towards the visor in normal zooming suituations, except you can't really look down scopes with a helmet on (hence the smart-linking)). By the way, if you didn't have any keyframes for a frame anywhere else, could you move that frame during a zoom in animation and have it stay put until zoom out? (I'm thinking you could screw on a scilencer instead of switching fire mode on some weapons.)

Also has anyone mentioned new vehicle types? (eg. human plane, alien fighter, human jeep, alien scout).

I've also updated my ideas list, yet again.

[p0lar_bear]

That's why I said about a new tool command to automaticly take a whole folder of images and set them up as an animated.bitmap for you.The problem there is making all the source images in the first place. Why dump each frame of a video into an image to be compiled back into a pseudo-video, when you could just transcode the video to a different format and be done with it?

[Delta4907]

Well excuse me for not hanging on every word typed..
Could have just explained the meaning, ina non assfaced like manner :)

Or you could've just read it normally in the first place and I wouldn't have said it in an assfaced manner :)

[Rhydgaled]

The problem there is making all the source images in the first place. Why dump each frame of a video into an image to be compiled back into a pseudo-video, when you could just transcode the video to a different format and be done with it?
I think I kinda get your point there, but as I said I think some video editing software can export all the frames for you easilly enough. Using actuall video files would probablly be easier for users as you say but in answer to your question:
Why dump each frame of a video into an image to be compiled back into a pseudo-video, when you could just transcode the video to a different format and be done with it? it is so you can just put the .bitmap tag in the current background image slot, which if this:

Would it also be possible to make models animate in the UI? Right now, if you place a biped or animated scenery into a UI, it will freeze in place. I had to make scenery versions of the Chief and Spark with a fixed pose for my Library UI. can't be fixed could be used to replace an actuall bsp background with a "video clip" without the need for an .os_ui_widget_definition tag type. Of course I know nothing about actually coding anything for open sauce so I could be completly off track there.

Also, you said about the movie clip (not implemented) type in ui_widget_definitions, any idea what the game model (not implemented) type would have done? And is there a difference between the implemented types, especially coloumn list and container types, anyway? (other than the main menu widget exceptioning if you pick the wrong one).

EDIT: Just calling attention to the fact that I've added yet another idea to my main ideas post (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showpost.php?p=410500&postcount=75), I hope no posts before that get deleted and mess up the link.

[KiLLa]

Or you could've just read it normally in the first place and I wouldn't have said it in an assfaced manner :)
..who are you again?
oh, an asshole who loves to troll for responses..

Anywho, would animations that actually relocate the bipeds position be possible?
Like what would be used to make lunging possible, or even like dodging or rolling..

[p0lar_bear]

I think I kinda get your point there, but as I said I think some video editing software can export all the frames for you easilly enough. Using actuall video files would probablly be easier for users as you say but in answer to your question: it is so you can just put the .bitmap tag in the current background image slot, which if this:
can't be fixed could be used to replace an actuall bsp background with a "video clip" without the need for an .os_ui_widget_definition tag type. Of course I know nothing about actually coding anything for open sauce so I could be completly off track there.Even with something that would dump the movie into a series of images, think of the resources needed to run it? I would imagine a bik file would be much smaller and less intensive than a series of DXT1 textures.


any idea what the game model (not implemented) type would have done?
More than likely like how you can see your player model in Halo 2 and 3 menus. However, I see no easy way to make that work; you'd need to grab your profile's colors, and then apply it to the color change of the model in real time when you change colors in the menu.

[Delta4907]

..who are you again?
oh, an asshole who loves to troll for responses..

What are you talking about? All I did was answer your question, and apparently it was in an "assfaced manner", albeit you could've read it right the first time, which is why Korn typed it in his post, so you would read it and know what it meant..

[teh lag]

Cool it you two,

[VickJr]

I Have an idea:

In the original campaign scrips, printing certain things will make the game exit and go to another mode. For instance, at the end of the last level, there's the command "Print("creadits")" -something like that. And it causes the game to go into the credits. Something similar happens for the beggining bungie movie and the ui wait screen movie. It would be great to have something where you can build these functions in OS to play movies.

[klange]

^

(play_bik [file])

do it.

[p0lar_bear]

I Have an idea:

In the original campaign scrips, printing certain things will make the game exit and go to another mode. For instance, at the end of the last level, there's the command "Print("creadits")" -something like that. And it causes the game to go into the credits. Something similar happens for the beggining bungie movie and the ui wait screen movie. It would be great to have something where you can build these functions in OS to play movies.

(print) functions in the scripts were put there simply for debugging purposes. The credits call is hardcoded; happens when (game_won) is run on d40.map.

[paladin]

Make it so I can have water planes at two different heights please. kthnxbai

[p0lar_bear]

Make it so I can have water planes at two different heights please. kthnxbai

I don't even think that's a possibility without the source code. A water/fog plane is really just a definition of where on the Z-axis to start rendering fog.

[Hunter]

Some kind of blur/disortation effect on engines and heat. Like is does on most games, and Halo 3. I would of thought it can be done because the game already has disortation coded in.

[Malloy]

I don't even think that's a possibility without the source code. A water/fog plane is really just a definition of where on the Z-axis to start rendering fog.


Yeah well somehow tell that shit to stop :P


Some kind of blur/disortation effect on engines and heat. Like is does on most games, and Halo 3. I would of thought it can be done because the game already has disortation coded in.

Remember that recent more accurate Bubbleshield effect achieved by the biped taggage, well maybe play with that 'active camo mirage effect... rigged and animated planes maybe?

[Choking Victim]

Some kind of blur/disortation effect on engines and heat. Like is does on most games, and Halo 3. I would of thought it can be done because the game already has disortation coded in.
Already possible:
http://www.halotrialmods.org/zteam/images/03-26-09/hammer_time2.gif

[p0lar_bear]

Already possible:
http://www.halotrialmods.org/zteam/images/03-26-09/hammer_time2.gif

Spawns a unit shaped like a sphere with camo that dies almost instantly?

[Choking Victim]

Spawns a unit shaped like a sphere with camo that dies almost instantly?
Yea, same principle as my bubbleshield, but applied to an effect. I did the tags that spawn the biped, cad tagged the hammer and effects.

[klange]

To get the effect onto a vehicle, attach a biped. Do some fancy things to make the biped change size, etc. to match effects coming off the engines.

I'm going to try the same thing to camo my Draco. Don't know if it'll work out, though.
e: How the hell do I actually give a biped active camo?

[sevlag]

To get the effect onto a vehicle, attach a biped. Do some fancy things to make the biped change size, etc. to match effects coming off the engines.

I'm going to try the same thing to camo my Draco. Don't know if it'll work out, though.oh so it'd be like a UNSC prowler

[Cortexian]

How about the ability to make certain players in a server invincible, but not everyone? I'd love to have a feature like this for administration purposes, and it'd be nice if melee's to the back didn't kill you. This would have to be a server-side command that only worked though rcon or some such.

[Kornman00]

I had written most of this at the beginning of the week so I might have missed some things. That and I was looking at both this and the Update thread (where people have been wrongly posting ideas...), so things may be a little out of sync. I've had a busted middle finger since wednesday, so typing (and many other things actually) isn't the easiest thing for me right now. I don't think its broken, but it sure as hell got sprained-the-fuck up.


Lets get a fact straight before I continue:
OS should only be used to extend the game; to re-purpose the features already there. The idea to redefine portions of the engine's functionality isn't the brightest idea. If the source code was readily available, then yes, it would be gloves off in terms of modification. However, the engine continues to be closed source.


Think of the engine and Yelo as Forge. You can use whats already at your disposal to tweak and spice up the underlying foundation, but you can't actually go in and redefine the existing world you're in or the properties of the objects. This is how Yelo should be used in terms of changing the engine.



Adding new fields or flags to the tag definitions should never have to be done. The only tag whose fields are modified in OS HEK is the scenario tag and thats so that it can reference a project_yellow tag (basically Yelo's scenario tag). Even then, it changed the scenario in a way which wouldn't break existing scenario tags.
Changing the rendering pipeline should be out of the question. If you really want to go next-gen, then do it with a next-gen engine.
Going so far as to change actual data structure layouts is out of the question as well. Yelo is designed to be as version complaint as possible (for the build of the game that it targets, ie 1.08).

So adding new fields to the engine variant files is out of the question (not to mention the technical problems it would introduce in the existing game code).
Reformatting how the cache files are loaded and stored in the maps directory is just out as well. The UI tag definitions are very crude in terms of adding new UI features, as you can only run with what the engine already exposes via function and event exports. Yes, in theory you could very well go about adding new function and event exports for the widgets, but that would require the changes not only in the Yelo code base, but also in the OS HEK code base (which is closed source) so that the tools are aware of these changes and thus don't fuck up when editing or building. Then you'd actually have to IMPLEMENT those functions. Do any of you have research into how the runtime of the ui works (runtime != tag state)? Don't try changing systems which you have no awareness of how it is implemented.



Dual wielding isn't going to happen in a realistic manner, if ever. It will continue to be a kludge. You're not able to change the actual game state object definitions so you can't do things like adding an extra usable weapon (via the left hand), or add more than two grenade types, or allow more than one driver\gunner. Dual wielding is possible in Halo 2 due to advances in the model code (to allow dynamic mirroring in the model and animation data).
Cosmetic changes such as models and achievements should be fine, as these would typically only require engine modifications and not actual new tag definitions. Depending on how you want to implement it, you may want to allow a special tag group to define specifics (ie, how many kills for X medal) which other scenario producers can configure. The server should communicate with an outside database however, when it wants to persist such data. There is something that may be included in U#2 which could aid in that last bit.




http://www.modacity.net/forums/showpost.php?p=410500&postcount=75
"Section Three"
* I'm not going to modify the tag definition
* NFWOS
* NFWOS
* Ummm, I could have sworn you can already re-map all of those keys...
* NFWOS
* I believe we had this going in H2 Zanzibar (for the BR) back in the H2CE days, so its possible with whats already in the tags.
* I'm not doing this, nor do I recommend anyone do this until they actually know the UI internals.




http://www.modacity.net/forums/showpost.php?p=411266&postcount=82
* BIK videos played via the bink script functions (the internals anyway) play at full screen. You'd have to configure bink to play back at those demensions plus at the locations defined in the widget tag. While I have documentation on the Bink SDK (albeit a newer build) I'm not performing any graphical upgrades (which this falls under).
* It is too late in this development phase for me to be looking at recorded animations again...but I'll see what I can do about including the existing documentation I have.
* I'm not entirely sure why objects don't animate while loaded in the UI. Isn't the Halo ring animated though?
* The double melee glitch: yeah, it should be possible, but I think it would be rather annoying to implement without source.



(http://www.modacity.net/forums/showpost.php?p=411286&postcount=85)
http://www.modacity.net/forums/showpost.php?p=411286&postcount=85
* scripts_compile should be OK, I'll look into it
* I really don't understand what you're asking for that "plugin support". Please don't turn me into the Tasmanian Devil due to people not taking heed to what I said about EXPLAINING and DETAILING their ideas.



(http://www.modacity.net/forums/showpost.php?p=411322&postcount=33)
http://www.modacity.net/forums/showpost.php?p=411322&postcount=33
No




http://www.modacity.net/forums/showpost.php?p=411356&postcount=35
Heheheh, yeah I remember that. Looking back though, I see that I really didn't answer the actual questions. However, I believe Nitro was the one who came up with the questions (or maybe they had just sent him that list to ask the team, I'll have to check the convo log). I think I really couldn't apply my position to some of those questions, I was always more of a "behind the scenes" guy. Good to see they have that up still; I have it archived as well.

Thanks for the kind words guys. I hope the future pans out nicely too, life would be great and productive if I got to make tools like these at work and at home. Plus you know, get paid for it, which would probably just make work my home then heh. Looking forward to separating myself (9ish months left!) from my fucking unit and the Army. Its sad to see a lot of these blokes live from paycheck to paycheck. You can't safely get out unless you're financially prepared (among other things).

e: Like the new avatar there pedo bear lol

[p0lar_bear]

* I'm not entirely sure why objects don't animate while loaded in the UI. Isn't the Halo ring animated though?That's an animated shader. For some reason model_animations just don't work in the UI.

e: Like the new avatar there pedo bear lol>:P

[Malloy]

Yeh basically break all of the limits to modding the UI :P Higher Res please

[Rhydgaled]

http://www.modacity.net/forums/showpost.php?p=410500&postcount=75
"Section Three"
* I'm not going to modify the tag definition
* NFWOS
* NFWOS
* Ummm, I could have sworn you can already re-map all of those keys...
* NFWOS
* I believe we had this going in H2 Zanzibar (for the BR) back in the H2CE days, so its possible with whats already in the tags.
* I'm not doing this, nor do I recommend anyone do this until they actually know the UI internals.Thanks for taking a look at my ideas, however I am unsure which of your comments relate to which of my ideas, so I don't know which are NFWOS. I think this is because, as you have said: you had written most of this at the beginning of the week so might have missed some things, and I have been adding many ideas for a while. I would also like some comments on sections 1&2 if you can spare the time, so could you take another look at the whole post and comment on each item like I have in section one or using some other method to connect your comment with each of my points please. I can go through myself first and edit the post to add numbering for everything if you would perfer that and/or it would help.

BIK videos played via the bink script functions (the internals anyway) play at full screen. You'd have to configure bink to play back at those demensions plus at the locations defined in the widget tag.Could playing .bik files (in Full-Screen the same manner as the current ones) by a script command still be possible though?

[klange]

I'm just going throw this out here, I have no idea if it's possible, but I want to make sure it's noted: I want to be able to attach devices and vehicles to another vehicle such that they:
1. Stay still (ie, are actually attached, like the warthog to the Pelican in campaign) and
2. Can still be utilized.
Basically, something along the lines of how Halo 2 does a number of things.

Again, absolutely no idea of how feasible this is, but if it can be done, it will save me a significant amount of work (and allow me to equip my ship with extra turrets)

[Malloy]

so like a 'node' represents another vehicle?

[klange]

so like a 'node' represents another vehicle?
Yes. The best example is actually straight from H2: There is only one Warthog, and then there are two turrets. The final product is generated by attaching the turret to the warthog at the back. I want to be able to do this, not only with vehicles (ie, drop pods and warthogs and wasps), but proximity doors. The issue right now is that, with the way things are attached, they don't "activate": you can't use them. Ex: In SP when the hog is attached to the pelican, you can't get in it. I've also attached doors to the Draco, they don't open - obviously, I'd like them to.

[Malloy]

ha ha proximity doors on vehicles, you're living in fantasy land :P.

but yeh fukin awsome revolutionary idea... just need a coding genious to verify whether its able :P

Id be happy with a weapon spawn on a vehicle, or shit even spawn points like Halo 3 Elephant.

hmmm, If open sauce is how i have skim read it to be, would it be possible to create a 'gubbin' tag type, but in the tag editor have a scroll box to deter what sort of 'gubbin' the attachment is (vehicle, Spawn point, weapon, machine..etc) then for the tag editing options to be made available upon the choice. So you open up the 'gubbin' tag and choose 'vehicle', then in the browse box select 'warthog.vehicle' and tada it loads the data for the vehicle to the attachment node?

somethig like that would blow my pants off.

[t3h m00kz]

I still think a HEADSHOT! announcer would be bad ass guyzzz

[Hunter]

I still think a HEADSHOT! announcer would be bad ass guyzzz

Shouldnt be a high piority. Still, more feilds on tags, like a checkbox to allow walking on vehicles in the .vehicle tag would revolutionise the game. The amount of possiblities is imense.

And the would be a more enjoyable experience. But Korn said that he cannot add more feilds intags or new tags.

Is it because it takes a long time to research ect..? Or it just can't be done?

[chrisk123999]

How about the ability to make certain players in a server invincible, but not everyone? I'd love to have a feature like this for administration purposes, and it'd be nice if melee's to the back didn't kill you. This would have to be a server-side command that only worked though rcon or some such.

object_cannot_take_damage

[=sw=warlord]

@freelancer: theres a flag in the biped tag if i remember correctly that does exactly that.

Kornman, would it be possible to make the light from the sun a dynamic light? because if i remember correctly the bumpmapping in halo only works with dynamic lightning and radiosity is not dynamic.

[il Duce Primo]

A new shader_environment shader that can use blend maps to blend between 3 detail maps. This is used in H3 and here's an example that they showed in one of their publications.
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/1034/blendmaps.jpg

As you can see they blend between RGB values. Could you take away Alpha channels from the original and add in a place to add a blend map bitmap. From there I guess it would take reworking on how detail maps are blended with eachother. Is this possible to do?

[CtrlAltDestroy]

actually, it can blend between 4 different channels.

[Malloy]

Blend maps, take me in your arms.

[Disaster]

oh god yes

I was thinking about something like this the other day but with vertex colors.

[il Duce Primo]

actually, it can blend between 4 different channels.
What does it use for the 4th detail map? White?

[Disaster]

Probably grayscale colors.

[klange]

Alpha.

[Heathen]

so halo can do animated textures right?
So why not make the "water" part of the map that you can walk through, like foliage, and have an animated texture handle the water effects?

[paladin]

so halo can do animated textures right?
So why not make the "water" part of the map that you can walk through, like foliage, and have an animated texture handle the water effects?
Brents doing that for Quo, one water plane is jsut gonna be a really nice texture.

Bump maps on scenery?

[Cortexian]

object_cannot_take_damage
Would this be used in the same format as a kill script?

A la:
"object_cannot_take_damage (unit (list_get (players) <playerindex>))"

E: Tried the above, it works but seems to randomly switch the invincible person if the person selected to be invincible leaves or gets unit_kill'd. Need something that works on a single person.

[Heathen]

Brents doing that for Quo, one water plane is jsut gonna be a really nice texture.

Bump maps on scenery?
so I was right? Damn!

[Rhydgaled]

In regard to this post (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showpost.php?p=414117&postcount=113) I have decided to go through and edit my main ideas post (this one) (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showpost.php?p=410500&postcount=75) to add some numbering to make it easier to comment on everything there. I also decided to try to suggest some alternatives, based on prior comments. Also before passing judgement on the feasibility of the ideas (particularlly .bik and animated.bitmaps) please see the debate between me and Polar Bear (on pages 9 and 10 I think.)

EDIT:
Just a quick question which might not be Open Sauce related at all. If you use an XBOX controler (probablly would happen with 360 controllers too) the prompts say "Press button1 to Pick Up Flamethrower" instead of showing which button like this "Press X to Pick Up Flamethrower" or "Press D-Pad up to activate Flashlight". What are the .input_device_default tags and what do they do? could they fix this problem? Just having text like I have would be sufficent, the actuall bitmaps for each button (found in the pickup icons bitmap) are not so important, but if we could use those it would be even better. So, can you do this with .input_device_default tags? or if not can you do it with Open Sauce?

[TomClancy]

Just a heads up, you have #6 twice (but two different suggestions.)
This has been suggested, but widescreen resolutions?

[chrisk123999]

Is it possible to use Open Sauce to make a built in version changer? That way there is no reason not to use Open Sauce for SPV2...

[=sw=warlord]

Kornman, would it be possible to make the light from the sun a dynamic light? because if i remember correctly the bumpmapping in halo only works with dynamic lighting and radiosity is not dynamic.
quotin dis.

[p0lar_bear]

quotin dis.

Dynamic lights don't cast shadows, not to mention they're not exactly performance friendly. You'd be stuck with a fullbright, laggy level.

[Malloy]

High Res UI graphics please, Also the gubbin attachment idea.

[Timo]

High Res UI graphics please, Also the gubbin attachment idea.

Yeah, the ability to increase the visible bounds of widgets from 640x480 up to anything would be awesome. Well, especially if you can have it scale the higher res bitmaps down from a large one. That way, you could have a widescreen UI starting at 1920x1080 that downscales to all other widescreen resolutions, and another for standard aspect ratios.

[Malloy]

Then i'd 'Jizz in my pants'

[TomClancy]

...1920x1080 that downscales to all other widescreen resolutions, and another for standard aspect ratios.

Don't forget about 1920x1200! I guess minor stretching wouldn't hurt, but if you can get 1920x1080, why not 1920x1200?

[Timo]

Why not 2560x1600?! It was just an example of a large res ;)

[TomClancy]

Touché. But I'm selfish and don't have a 30" so who cares about them!

[Dwood]

I'm lost as to the question if that's feasible or not.

[klange]

I need a function to teleport objects to points on other objects. Sort of like objects_attach, but without the attaching. I've tested changing the coordinates of a device machine manually and it seems the biped will stay on, I want to use this in the DRC-II by "teleporting" an invisible device machine around with the ship, but there are no functions to do that, I can only teleport to a cutscene_flag.

e: Technically, I'm looking for an object_teleport with the format of objects_attach:
object_teleport object string object string
"Teleports the second object to the first object, both strings may be left blank"

[Choking Victim]

I need a function to teleport objects to points on other objects. Sort of like objects_attach, but without the attaching. I've tested changing the coordinates of a device machine manually and it seems the biped will stay on, I want to use this in the DRC-II by "teleporting" an invisible device machine around with the ship, but there are no functions to do that, I can only teleport to a cutscene_flag.
You could always just attach/detach.

[klange]

You could always just attach/detach.
Doesn't work. I do that all the time, but it won't work with the device_machine/biped combo. I need to quite literally, and in one game tick, change the position coordinates of the device_machine, as well as (ideally) its rotation to that of a point on another object in world space. So far, experiments show that this could yield walkable vehicles.
e: And yes, I'd probably replace all of my attach/detach's with this, 'cause it would take less game ticks and therefore yield better syncing if I did it with a vehicle in the back... Which means less lag.

[MissingSpartan7]

could we attach trigger volumes to objects?
then we could have moveable teleporters, like halo 3 forge does

[Rhydgaled]

I need a function to teleport objects to points on other objects. Sort of like objects_attach, but without the attaching. I've tested changing the coordinates of a device machine manually and it seems the biped will stay on, I want to use this in the DRC-II by "teleporting" an invisible device machine around with the ship, but there are no functions to do that, I can only teleport to a cutscene_flag.

e: Technically, I'm looking for an object_teleport with the format of objects_attach:
object_teleport object string object string
"Teleports the second object to the first object, both strings may be left blank"
If you're just aiming at walkable vehicles, then wouldn't my suggestion of allowing more object types in the attatchments box (much like the warthog antena) be preferable? If that is possible of course.

[klange]

If you're just aiming at walkable vehicles, then wouldn't my suggestion of allowing more object types in the attatchments box (much like the warthog antena) be preferable? If that is possible of course.
I'm not sure if it'll work. I think attachments work pretty much the same objects_attach does in effect, so it doesn't yield the right results. If it does work, yes, but I still want this function because it's "super easy" to implement.

e: Though, yes, that would be preferable. It would also be really nice if an attached proximity door still detected a biped presence... then I could just add more doors as attachments with no extra scripting...

[H4X0R]

you can already do recorded animations. May not be as simple and such, and you have to use a different method. But you can "imitate" it. Also +1 on the ai syncing.

(PS. Not sure if that was said already, since i only read the 1st page)

[Advancebo]

You cant do recorded animations. Just animations.

[Dwood]

you can already do recorded animations. May not be as simple and such, and you have to use a different method. But you can "imitate" it. Also +1 on the ai syncing.

(PS. Not sure if that was said already, since i only read the 1st page)

Notice how Sync ai has a strike through it.

[Kornman00]

Dwood, do you mind going through and consolidating any new ideas that have been posted (into your OP like you were doing)? If they aren't following the rules which I set out earlier, feel free to ignore their posts like I do :downs:

+rep :poke:

EDIT: thanks :-D

[Dwood]

Dwood, do you mind going through and consolidating any new ideas that have been posted (into your OP like you were doing)? If they aren't following the rules which I set out earlier, feel free to ignore their posts like I do :downs:

+rep :poke:

Yeah I'll go through and add new ideas that were posted. :)

[Dwood]

You know, for starting this thread and getting everyone back to earth, this has been fairly rep-less xP.

Anyways: Bump, I finished the edit. Check out my new, messed-up OP and behold the awesomeness. :D

NOTE: Unless it was blatantly obvious that it was not possible I posted the idea.

A sticky would be nice, too.

[FreedomFighter7]

I have no idea what this is, I'm assuming its a mod you're developing which will be open source, and an improvement to the game. In which case I have a few features to suggest:


Some of these features are seen in other games, and in my personal opinion gearbox did a crappy job making halo 1 for the PC, putting in only the most basic effort in making it MP playable over the internet.
Features:

Spectating(following) for all players.
Spectating (in game MP), by moving a camera about the map the way a Dev mode camera would (or something similar) in Halo CE dev mode.
Vote kick system, (KICK only, banning is too powerful).
Admin implementable punishments, like slowing a player, killing a player, get creative.
I saw the idea for more FP animations, not sure what that means, but I would like to see the ability for Dual Wielding done right.
Fix the problem with the game, where in Multi Player if you minimize the game in any way (using Alt Tab or the Windows key), upon maximizing it again you cannot see in game text like who killed who and what people have said in chat. I swear I'm the only one who knows about this, has anyone else noticed this problem before?

[Malloy]

A new shader_environment shader that can use blend maps to blend between 3 detail maps. This is used in H3 and here's an example that they showed in one of their publications.
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/1034/blendmaps.jpg

As you can see they blend between RGB values. Could you take away Alpha channels from the original and add in a place to add a blend map bitmap. From there I guess it would take reworking on how detail maps are blended with eachother. Is this possible to do?



THIS and higher res images for UI!!!!!

[KiLLa]

Fix the problem with the game, where in Multi Player if you minimize the game in any way (using Alt Tab or the Windows key), upon maximizing it again you cannot see in game text like who killed who and what people have said in chat. I swear I'm the only one who knows about this, has anyone else noticed this problem before?
Your kidding right?
Text lag has been a known issue since HaloPC was released...

[klange]

Can we get a sort of "campaign scoring" system like in Halo 3? Or at the very least some way to easily trigger something when a kill is made in a campaign. Rob Oplawar wanted Cerebrum-Synapse to track his Bridge campaign, and I don't see much point unless we can do scoring.

[Kornman00]

I would just need a test campaign map made for CE that I can use to develop campaign scoring routines.

[Kornman00]

I would just like to reiterate something. Developing a feature with OS requires actual work. That is, you have to actual research (basically reverse engineer) what it takes to do what you're wanting to do. Even then, research only gets you half way. You then have to implement that research into something tangible.

Take for instance campaign extending. I had to first research the systems which worked with campaign case code. This included some UI code and some general game code. Once I knew the systems, I had to narrow my focus in the how. Once I knew how the systems interfaced with what they were doing with campaign cases (as Halo 1 had campaign related data all hard coded), I was able to figure out how to inject and overwrite existing game code and data with code I compiled into OS.

The engine isn't open source. The only way you can extend it is by rewiring the actual "hardware" (ie, the machine code). I guess one way to compare it is with cracking the iPhone or 360. In order to actually get to the software and make it do what you want, you first have to hurdle over the hardware factor which is there blocking communication with the operating system from an outside source. The software in this case is how the game works. Parts of the game can't be changed without pretty much taking one peice of hardware out and replacing it with a totally new part.
Take for instance increasing the profile name length. In some cases as this, the hardware is spread out like cancer so that it isn't fessible to make the change.

To top it off, the game was compiled for optimization and release, so code was inlined and mutilated from its original source.

So really...try thinking about what you're suggesting...and for christ-cracker sakes listen to what I said for submitting ideas and actually explain them and provide information on how they could possibly be done. Stop just throwing stuff out there thinking I'm a fucking mind reader or something, thats not how game development goes :|

[Llama Juice]

Stop just throwing stuff out there thinking I'm a fucking mind reader or something

You've been around long enough for us all to know you're > human. Don't pull that "I can't read minds" bullshit, we know better.

<3

[klange]

This is why I narrowed my original request down to something specific and simple. Hopefully I don't need to elaborate on campaign scoring: you increment some counters for points and kills when an ai unit dies and the fatal shot came from the player.

[Malloy]

A new shader_environment shader that can use blend maps to blend between 3 detail maps. This is used in H3 and here's an example that they showed in one of their publications.
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/1034/blendmaps.jpg

As you can see they blend between RGB values. Could you take away Alpha channels from the original and add in a place to add a blend map bitmap. From there I guess it would take reworking on how detail maps are blended with eachother. Is this possible to do?


Well for these bad boys which would make maps look totally freakin delicious, I guess you could investigate how the detail map alpha channels seperate the detail maps in the environment_shader, then do your coding wizardry to the values of RBG(each value a seperate detail map) ?, no idea i cant code for shit but theres a suggestion.

Um also higher res images for UI, No idea again, but look at origional UI system and see if theres anyways to maybe unlock the bitmap resolution filtering ? lol im probably no help at all, but those two features would kickass.

[klange]

Well for these bad boys which would make maps look totally freakin delicious, I guess you could investigate how the detail map alpha channels seperate the detail maps in the environment_shader, then do your coding wizardry to the values of RBG(each value a seperate detail map) ?, no idea i cant code for shit but theres a suggestion.

Um also higher res images for UI, No idea again, but look at origional UI system and see if theres anyways to maybe unlock the bitmap resolution filtering ? lol im probably no help at all, but those two features would kickass.
RGBA, I believe it was already mentioned that shader extensions were near impossible, and please stop quoting that image.

[Malloy]

Ha sorry :(. one can only dream.

[FreedomFighter7]

I would just like to reiterate something. Developing a feature with OS requires actual work. That is, you have to actual research (basically reverse engineer) what it takes to do what you're wanting to do. Even then, research only gets you half way. You then have to implement that research into something tangible.

Take for instance campaign extending. I had to first research the systems which worked with campaign case code. This included some UI code and some general game code. Once I knew the systems, I had to narrow my focus in the how. Once I knew how the systems interfaced with what they were doing with campaign cases (as Halo 1 had campaign related data all hard coded), I was able to figure out how to inject and overwrite existing game code and data with code I compiled into OS.

The engine isn't open source. The only way you can extend it is by rewiring the actual "hardware" (ie, the machine code). I guess one way to compare it is with cracking the iPhone or 360. In order to actually get to the software and make it do what you want, you first have to hurdle over the hardware factor which is there blocking communication with the operating system from an outside source. The software in this case is how the game works. Parts of the game can't be changed without pretty much taking one peice of hardware out and replacing it with a totally new part.
Take for instance increasing the profile name length. In some cases as this, the hardware is spread out like cancer so that it isn't fessible to make the change.

To top it off, the game was compiled for optimization and release, so code was inlined and mutilated from its original source.

So really...try thinking about what you're suggesting...and for christ-cracker sakes listen to what I said for submitting ideas and actually explain them and provide information on how they could possibly be done. Stop just throwing stuff out there thinking I'm a fucking mind reader or something, thats not how game development goes :|

Sorry, I assumed you had played most modern games (I think you're talking to me). Spectating/following is where you see a team mates point of view, including their HUD, weapon, etc. Its very much like sight jacking. This can be done for teams only, and for spectators (people not playing but watching the game). People not playing, but watching would be able to cycle through players and follow them on either team. These are common features in modern games like COD 4.

Spectating without following, is where you can move about the map with a camera and go virtually anywhere. This can be allowed on teams or on non playing spectators. Teams can be a bit unfair, its like screen cheating (looking at other players on your local Xbox's screen to gain an advantage) on an Xbox.

Another feature I would like is private messaging, where you press T to open the chat box, press the Up button and for each time the Up button is pressed the words: "To: Player 1" appear, with an empty text box after it. As you continue to press either the Up or Down keys, the box cycles through the players. When you have a player selected simply continue typing and press enter, sending the message to the selected player. Also have an option to lock on to that player, so you don't have to cycle through the players again to continue talking with that person. Like pressing the Tilda key (~,`) locks on to the player. One of the options in the cycle is global chat.


Text lag has been a known issue since HaloPC was released...

What are you calling Text lag? If by text lag you mean the chat not appearing after being typed that is not what I mean. What I mean is when you Alt Tab out of the game, Alt tab back in, and chat, and server messages don't appear on the screen anymore. The text may flicker on or off but it doesn't stop until you restart the game.

[Malloy]

^You're a dick. If you werent trying to patronising, then I apologise.

[klange]

Can we get biped permutations to sync over the network as an added packet? This, combined with some further UI/player profile changes could allow for things like armor permutations to be used, as well as solving half of the "play as an elite" dilemma (though I more see it being used with the Halo 3 permutation sets I've been seeing).

I figure, it'd be a matter of appending the permutation name to some join data and syncing that back over to the client. I definitely think it could be done from a third party app, so I think it should also be possible in Open Sauce.

[Kornman00]

I've only had time so far to skim recent posts, but I wasn't targeting just one specific person, but just in general. Yes, I got what he was saying with campaign scoring. FF7: I got the gist of what you were saying earlier, but including what all is to be included in the spectating (ie, their HUD) is what I meant by detailing the idea. I don't want to be the one to nail out the specifics of the ideas as they're not mine.
However, I should note that having more than 16 players on a server, playing or not, isn't going to happen. Spectators could possibly be hacked in, by making them players that never actually spawn, but it wouldn't be one of the more simpiler hacks I don't think.

I'll try to get to the rest of your posts (in detail) later today (errr, tomorrow for you Westerners)

[KiLLa]

What are you calling Text lag? If by text lag you mean the chat not appearing after being typed that is not what I mean. What I mean is when you Alt Tab out of the game, Alt tab back in, and chat, and server messages don't appear on the screen anymore. The text may flicker on or off but it doesn't stop until you restart the game.
uh yea, that would be "text lag"
It's been a known issue..your not the only one who's noticed it..
It happens to everyone..

[FreedomFighter7]

I got another idea, different colored text chat for teams. A blue person talking in global, or team chat has a blue color to their text. Kills made by a blue person, shows a blue name in the kill message, and a red one for the red he killed. Also, it would be nice if different messages were added for kills with different weapons.For example, if Blue One killed Red One with a sniper rifle, it says: "Blue one sniped Red One" Maybe even a picture of the weapon instead of: "Player 1 killed Player 2". Instead, if P1 killed P2: "Player 1 (insert picture of pistol here, pointing towards the player who was killed) Player 2.".

Thx killa :D

I'm chock full of ideas!

[halopro77]

so all the corssed off ones your not going to do/ not possible in ce?

[Dwood]

so all the crossed off ones your not going to do/ not possible in ce?

Basically just the not possible.

oh, and ftfy.

[VickJr]

Make it so I can have water planes at two different heights please. kthnxbai
Think you mean fog planes. You can have multiple water planes wherever you want. You can have multiple fog planes in a level, but they must not intersect in a portal. Even then, the fog is glitched. For instance, I made a fog tester map with 4 rooms, each with their own portal and fog planes. In sapien, i could not apply a different fog to each room. It would let me, but then it would change the fog used in another oom, as if only 2 or 3 types of fog can be used in a level at one time.

As self-designated Fog Lord, I suggest an update to the fog system, allowing multiple fog planes and fog types in a level (not in a portal, just in a bsp) at different orientations. No idea how to do it, but i would look into it when i start learning c++ next year. : )

[t3h m00kz]

Small idea, what about a landing/damage FP animation? Something Halo lacked?

[Donut]

or a weapon put away anim or the flashlight anim

[t3h m00kz]

That's what I was gonna suggest next, weapon Put Away animations

[p0lar_bear]

What about an expansion on these ideas and ask if it's possible for more optional FP anims?

Animations like holster (played when weapon is put away), stealth-melee (special animation played when the melee attack that's thrown will be instant kill, like a Spy backstab), light-on/off, fall-damage, melee combo animations (a la E3 Halo 2, named melee-1/2/3), and such. And these special case animations would inhibit any player actions until they finish; doesn't make sense to be firing off a weapon when the MC's hands are yanked off-screen to support his weight when he fell. And if these animations do not exist in the tag, they aren't called and things continue as normal (if there's no stealth-melee or melee combo animations, the normal melee attack is played in all circumstances)

Also, would it be too much to ask for FP animation permutation support and the ability to use glow tags on FP weapons?

[Donut]

glow tags dont work on fp weapons? fuck

[t3h m00kz]

What about an expansion on these ideas and ask if it's possible for more optional FP anims?

Animations like holster (played when weapon is put away), stealth-melee (special animation played when the melee attack that's thrown will be instant kill, like a Spy backstab), light-on/off, fall-damage, melee combo animations (a la E3 Halo 2, named melee-1/2/3), and such. And these special case animations would inhibit any player actions until they finish; doesn't make sense to be firing off a weapon when the MC's hands are yanked off-screen to support his weight when he fell. And if these animations do not exist in the tag, they aren't called and things continue as normal (if there's no stealth-melee or melee combo animations, the normal melee attack is played in all circumstances)

Also, would it be too much to ask for FP animation permutation support and the ability to use glow tags on FP weapons?

Seconded. So many possibilities for FP animations that have gone untouched. E3 2003 Halo 2 melee was bad ass

*WHACK* *SMACK*

[Reaper Man]

What about an expansion on these ideas and ask if it's possible for more optional FP anims?

Animations like holster (played when weapon is put away), stealth-melee (special animation played when the melee attack that's thrown will be instant kill, like a Spy backstab), light-on/off, fall-damage, melee combo animations (a la E3 Halo 2, named melee-1/2/3), and such. And these special case animations would inhibit any player actions until they finish; doesn't make sense to be firing off a weapon when the MC's hands are yanked off-screen to support his weight when he fell. And if these animations do not exist in the tag, they aren't called and things continue as normal (if there's no stealth-melee or melee combo animations, the normal melee attack is played in all circumstances)

Also, would it be too much to ask for FP animation permutation support and the ability to use glow tags on FP weapons?
Some of p0lar's ideas were shown in the betas of Halo 1, it'd be cool to see them return to the game.

[Rambo]

I have a few suggestions for you, Kornman. This is going to be lengthy, but I have explanations.

For starters, please implement the feature to have more than 16 BSPs or a way to have animated lightmaps or improved dynamic lighting. This is because I am working on a map (Blood Creek RC3) and it uses a highly complex day-night system that involves a lot of bipeds and BSP's. If we could instead, have animated lightmaps for ONE BSP, this would cut down the filesize exponentially, or at best, the support for up to 128 BSPs (theoretical) or even more like 256. I know I sound like a crazed man begging for drugs asking for this, but please, for the sake of Blood Creek and other maps that wish to use dynamic time, consider this idea.

Also, syncing BSPs and, in general, client with server, would be greatly appreciated. If we synched BSPs, Devices, and other objects as a whole, there would be no need for the syncbips so commonly used in Blood Creek release candidates I've released and the one I'm working on now. The less "stuff" we get on the map, the smoother it runs. Syncbips are no exception. I am using syncbips to sync devices and the day-night system right now and it's uber-combersome and sloppy. To do away withy it would be a dream come true.

Also, another idea involves sound. First off, please fix the bug with OGGVorbis, where sounds that are of inappropriate length will crash the engine with an Exception. I am forced to use XBOX ADPCM for my bird sounds and other nature sounds, and it's taking up additional space that shouldn't be necessarily taken up by this sort of thing, not to mention the reduction in overall sound quality.

Second, about the sound engine itself. I am an in-training Pro-Audio Engineer (and have been for as long as you've been working on the CE engine itself trying to improve it for us). I understand the way sound works and how it has an effect on the environment and aesthetic nature of things for the end-user.

Please, make the engine allow sounds to not have cut-and-dry minimum and maximum distances, but instead, incorporate dynamic volume attenuation. What I mean is, imagine hearing a gunshot up close. It's deafening and loud andwith very little "roll-off" or reverb to the listener. The further away from the source of the sound, the more echoey it should sound with reverb to it that matches the environment. Also, it should dull the further away you get from the source because the waves have room to spread out. Also, a "dopper effect" on passing objects would be nice.

Think of the potentials for realism, Kornman. You have birds in a forest with real-time shadows and day-night lighting. You hear a Black Capped Chicketty in the distance, followed by a Redwing Black Bird up close, followed by a Robin or two at intermediate distances. The trees would provide acoustic noise cancellation as well as sound deadening, which would dynamically change the overall reverb settings of the sound environment. A lot of "hard surfaces" would produce more reverb in an otherwise quiet environment, whereas "soft" surfaces would produce deadening to the sound. These "densities" of surfaces could be determined in the physics section of a tag for an object, such as the material effects in a shader determines how an object sounds when walked upon.

Imagine the beautiful works of art that could come out of this in the realm of Machinima, Kornman. I, myself, am with a team putting together a nice movie, and I would love to see stuff like this implemented into the game's engine so we can use it in our movies and maps.

I know I'm asking for a lot, but I have high expectations for the future of CE gaming. People say it's a dead engine, or dying at best. I don't believe it. I feel as though we can breathe life back into this baby with some new content-generating content.


You're the man to do it. Good luck and thank you for reading (and possibly considering) my ideas.

Sincerely,

~Rambo

[VickJr]

I like rambo's ideas ^.

more then 16 bsps would be a VERY large map. And very wasteful if the only difference is the light map. Animated light maps would be much better. Even something to scale the light map away from the direction of light sources would be enough. Good thing we already have animated skys.

I also like the sounds ideas. Halos sound engine was supposedly really good for its time. But you mentioned a way to choose the way sound works with certain parts of the map. In one area the surfaces might be hard while in another they might be soft. Don't sound environments sort of act like what your talking about? In any given portal area you can choose the way sound behaves. I don't know how much effect they have though. i can't hear any difference between a "sewer pipe" sound environment and a 'stadium'. Maybe we would only need to improove the functionality of sound envronments.

[Rambo]

That's not what I was saying. What I meant was this.

Imagine someone's in the bathroom and they slam the toilet seat down. You're outside of the "cluster portal". You still hear the echo from within the bathroom after the guy finished doing what he had to do and heard the echo BECAUSE the environment in there was "hard", as in it had hard surfaces. You were in a carpeted room, like a sound booth, listening from a distance. All hypothetical, I know, but the idea is this.

Cluster portals only create reverb while you're in them. However, actual sound reverb settings will have an effect on the entire environment.

hink about it.

Some chick is walking across marble tile. When her footsteps hit the hard marble, do they not make a different sound than when she walks on carpet? Halo does support this function. Why can't it support individualized reverb settings via EAX and a little "shader magic"?

[Kornman00]

*sigh*, for the last time, I'm not IMPLEMENTING the ideas discussed here. I just said that I would look into ways to go about ideas and how feesible they are. I've already set a deadline for OS. No new features than what I already had planned are being added.

I'm not fucking with the game's rendering code. If you want dynamic lightmaps, move on to some next-gen engine, not one which is eight years old.

The same goes for the sound system.

Ideas like the ones stated above should be for games which actually have source which you can modify. If I had the Halo 1 source it would be a different case. However, I don't, so I'm not even going to consider such changes like totally redefining the lightmap system. Redefining systems require reverse engineering of both the data structures (don't even get me started on adding new fields to those structures) and code which uses it. To top things off, the game code is compiled for release and optimization thus making the assembly not so easily manipulated.
You're wanting to turn the Halo engine into something that isn't The Halo Engine. I've said it time and time before: OS should only be used to EXTEND the features already present without breaking compatibility.
Not breaking compatibility is part of the reason why I made the standard license for OS's source code GPL. This way changes that people make will be open to the public not only for their education but also to make sure that there aren't multiple versions of OS floating around which cause the game to crash when used on someone else's OS developed scenario. Of course you won't be able to squash all instances of this, but such issues will be a lot smaller than if people were just free to roam.

[Rambo]

Then can you at least add support for more than sixteen BSPs per scenario, or is that not possible either?

[Kornman00]

If anything, the max I can raise it to is about 32 I believe. The max bsp count is tied to a static bitvector which I forget if it consumes only 16 or 32bits.

[Rambo]

Well then, could you please try and raise it to 32? I know I'm asking for a lot, but I'd like my map, Blood Creek RC3, to be the best it can be, even if it's a very large map.

[Kornman00]

Yeah, I can try raising it. I think I may have been thinking of Halo 2, I don't think halo 1 has the bitvector issue.

Also, an optimization idea I've been developing may benefit maps of your type, assuming its included in Update 2.

[t3h m00kz]

Has a "Shield Depleted" effect been mentioned yet? Like, the sparks when you're no-shield in H2 and 3

[p0lar_bear]

Has a "Shield Depleted" effect been mentioned yet? Like, the sparks when you're no-shield in H2 and 3

Can't check since I'm not on my HEK PC, but isn't there a field in the biped tag for a shield depleted effect already? Could have sworn I saw one...

[t3h m00kz]

There's one for when it depletes, IE the shield flash, there's not one for while it's depleted, IE the constant sparks while your shield is down.

[CtrlAltDestroy]

That can already be done with a bit of clever tagging.

[t3h m00kz]

Oh? Can I get some info on how? I may implement it.

[CtrlAltDestroy]

an effect thats scaled by the shield function (inverse, in this case) of the biped, pretty straightforward.

[Limited]

Thought I'd throw my idea in here, even though I will attempt to implement it myself.

Swivel Camera

What it does: Allows the camera to rotate around the player in a orbiting fashion whilst the player's rotation orientation stays still. Player will be in third person.

How its executed: Via console, command could be "camera_swivel <boolean>"

But hey cant you use debug_camera_save/load?: Not the same, camera orbits around player, which means player can still move using movement keys.

[Rambo]

Hey if there is no limit, go as high as 64 or 128. Maybe, at best, offer the ability to use multiple lightmaps for one BSP. Can that be done? I'm not asking you to change the render engine. I just want more BSPs and/or multiple lightmaps for each BSP if it's possible.

If I could load in different lightmaps for the same BSP (i.e. shadow positions), I could save on BSP usage, thereby saving on total disk space.

[Rhydgaled]

Just had another idea come to me, which has probablly been mentioned anyway and I can't be bothered to add a discription right now but I thourght I should make sure the idea gets out there.

A system to prevent anyone who is carrying the flag or bomb from entering vehicles, except from seats that don't allow you to drive and allow you to use your own weapon.

Probablly just as impossible as I expect most of the ideas in my main post where, but for most of those I still haven't had anyone tell me for sure that they are impossible.

[Rentafence]

Probablly just as impossible as I expect most of the ideas in my main post where, but for most of those I still haven't had anyone tell me for sure that they are impossible.

I thought this was in the options for a custom gametype.

[t3h m00kz]

an effect thats scaled by the shield function (inverse, in this case) of the biped, pretty straightforward.

Ahh, functions. I haven't messed with them too much, but they seem pretty nifty. I'll have to look into it

[Limited]

Just had another idea come to me, which has probablly been mentioned anyway and I can't be bothered to add a discription right now but I thourght I should make sure the idea gets out there.

A system to prevent anyone who is carrying the flag or bomb from entering vehicles, except from seats that don't allow you to drive and allow you to use your own weapon.

Probablly just as impossible as I expect most of the ideas in my main post where, but for most of those I still haven't had anyone tell me for sure that they are impossible.pretty sure that is possible. It might not be able to fully prevent it, what might have to happen is when they get in the seat if they have the flag they get ejected, if they don't they stay in. Pretty sure it could have to be run on the dedicated server although the local host might be able to handle the checks.

Things are coming along with some new stuff Skyline and I are working on, release soon maybe...:p

[Rambo]

Kornman, I know this is a crazy request, but could you (for shits and giggles) up the BSP count to the maximum possible (or 255 BSPs) if allowed? That way, anyone can do whatever they want lighting wise with the BSP as they see fit.

My day-night system uses 12 BSPs for day, 3 BSPs for transitions between night and dawn, and 1 for night. I know I sound like a complete idiot, but if I had 128 BSPs I could do 64 for day and 64 for night, providing really smooth transitions of lighting across the map as the animated sun moves in the sky.

Also, another request. Right now, only eight skies are supported per scenario. Could you up that as well? Right now we're using an animated skybelt model for the custom sky with a static hemi for the moving stars. If we had a lot more skies to play with, we could do killer skies (taken from real life photos) that have beautiful sunrises and sunsets to complement the many BSP switches. Granted, the map file would be absolutely gargantuous, but it would offer an amazing experience for CE players.

One final thing. Please include a way to sync BSPs and devices over the netcode so that we don't have to do so with bipeds. They are bulky and ineffective and a poly / render hog.

I have complaints of lag on my map from some of the users with incorrect graphics settings and / or slower machines with not much RAM. I removed the bipeds just to see what would happen and a good portion of the lag went away, but so did the day-night system. Syncing on-the-fly objects would be a real beauty to add.

So yeah. Please up the BSPs as high as you can within reason, add support for more skies likewise, and try to get device syncing in with other possible syncing. Thanks.

[klange]

That would make for a ridiculously massive map file...

[Rambo]

That would make for an ridiculously massive map file...
Indeed, as I am well aware of. However, unless they manage to allow for on-the-fly Lightmaps swaping via a drop-down list in the Lightmaps part of the BSP tag, there is no way in HELL we're going to be able to consolidate the necessary Lightmaps to one BSP.

Which takes more? Lightmap data, or BSP data? I'd say the latter, not the former.

Kornman, if you could also incorporate a dev command that awitches lightmaps (e.g. switch_lightmap) and (structure_lightmap_index), we could, in theory, solve this huge BSP crisis with on-the-fly lightmap switching via the same or similar method as BSP switching.

[FreedomFighter7]

I've come up with some other ideas and I'll try to remember them here:

Point and click banning/kicking. Hold down a button, possibly F1 (the scoreboard button) and use the mouse to select a player, right click, and click BAN, or KICK. The action is automatically carried out.

Make banning and kicking possible without ever having to put -console in the desktop icon target thingy.

Banned player timers, set when banning, which indicate when the ban time will be up (ten years, a week, a month, etc.). Corresponding message that appears when banned or trying to join a banned server that shows how long you've been banned for, when it happened, and why (with reason put in by the server admin).

Command menu for other commands, using a box which has various commands in group boxes, with variables that can be set by the mouse. Setting said variables is accomplished by clicking a scroll box (one that shows a number or sentence/words, that expands when clicked, with more options in the expanded section, and the currently selected one highlighted, sorry I'm forgetting what this was called but I assumed it was the scroll box).

Please DO NOT make it impossible to drive a vehicle when holding the flag. This is halo one, not two or three, and stealing the flag would be nearly impossible without it. Requiring someone else to drive would require some good teamwork, and that isn't possible without some team work communication. Simple text chat isn't going to cut it. Things like communication macros ("I need a driver!", "I need a gunner!", "Help!", "Sniper!", "Guard the flag carrier!", etc.) and possibly voice chat would be wonderful.

Different more realistic player character colors, the ones currently in the games selections screen aren't very much like the in game (while playing) versions. Simple screen shots of the in game color would suffice, edited to only display the character (or some background, if that looks better or something).

HUD changes, like the word "Energy Shield" next to your shield bar, and "Heath" next to your health bar. As a newbie I didn't know what those were for, or that I had low health. The "+" symbol and the shield symbol were lost to me, I only recently figured out what they are (the symbols, not the shield and health).

[Hunter]

I can see map files being 1GB soon :P Bigger = better.

[Dwood]

I can see map files being 1GB soon :P Bigger = better.

Except the part where it takes almost an hour to download the whole thing.

[Rambo]

Not necessarily so. Blood Creek is reaching 300 MB in the test version, and when I 7-Zip it he drops to 30. He...the map...whatever. I just call it something. Ya know, how come people call their computer a he or a she when explaining its stats. lol

At any rate, if people used good compression utilities and not this ZIP crap, we wouldn't have much of a problem. The multiple BSPs DO take up space, but when you compress it the space drops signifficantly. It's mainly raw data like compressed sounds and bitmaps that take up the most room.

[FireScythe]

I'm working on a mouse driven menu system for OS, but I can't find a way to stop the mouse from interacting with Halo's UI while still being functional for my menu, so pointers on how to achieve this in OS2 would be useful.

[Kornman00]

Well I zombified and polished up the ingame menu system from Battery into Yelo. A crude system, but it saves me time from having to develop and test something new. Using it though, kind of breaks my thoughts on having the Yelo codebase being a very thin API to the engine without a bunch of fancy bells and whistles to creep the code of end-users.

However if you're wanting to do a global menu system...I can't think of anything at the moment that would stop the cursor from selecting the actual game's menu.

[dg]

I love you, babe.

[Kornman00]

Yeah, FOV, scaling and weapon positioning are back ;p

[Rambo]

So Kornman, are my suggestions regarding the BSPs and Lightmaps even possible? I know you said you'd try and expand the BSPs. How far out will ya go and can the new idea of multiple Lightmaps via drop-down box in a single BSP work with a dev command or two dev commands (one for seek and one for state) such as structure_lightmap_index (for seek) and switch_lightmaps (for state)?

Here's my idea on how it would work.

You have a drop-down menu above the lightmaps slot in the BSP tag that supports up to 256 Lightmaps. Each entry represents one Lightmap file.

When you specify the Lightmaps to be processed, you'd do it as follows.

tool lightmaps levels\test\blood_creek\blood_creek_rc3 0 128 0 0.0000001 (where 0 and 128 equal the start and end lightmap range or how many lightmaps to process from entry 0 to entry 128 in the Lightmap block table stored in the BSP. The next 0 would be the quality, and the last 0.0000001 would be the rate to count down to. Same process as it is now, just two more values in Tool.

Tool would thereby run Lightmaps 129 times (including the 0 Lightmap block and compile a series of bitmaps and generate BSP data required for all 129 Lightmap settings. Then, all one has to do is type switch_lightmap to switch to the desired lightmap setting corresponding to the given sky stored in the scenario file.

Lightmaps would be indirectly linked with Sky tags via an entry in the Lightmaps block section that references the sky to be used. This data would be similarly entered the way you reference what sky is used in a given cluster portal. By manually feeding Kornman00.exe (or whatever the app may be in the future that would support this), you set up the total number of lightmap indexes and what sky number is used.

A brief table is shown below to represent how it could be laid out.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lightmap Block: 0. Lightmap Block | Add | Insert | Duplicate | Delete | Delete All |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lightmap: (Edit Box) |...| |Open|

Sky: (Edit Box)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again, as shown above, the drop-down menu houses all the lightmaps. The field below contains the lightmap used (assigned by Tool by default), and the sky number you feed it before processing Lightmaps while all the fields in all the Lightmap blocks are left empty so that Tool will not crash looking for a file that does not exist.

Could you please increased the number of skies to 256 for lighting purposes.

I have taken care to make sure this idea is explained thoroughly. My question again is, is this doable WITHOUT fucking with the rendering engine?

[Kornman00]

If anything, there will just be a tag block in the yelo tag associated with the scenario which specifies the multiple lightmaps and sky references if it can be done. Not only would including a new tag block in the structure bsp change the normal layout of the tag, causing compatibility issues, it would tie the structure bsp tag to sky tags which is not How It's Done.

[Rambo]

Hmm... I see what you're saying, although it would be nice to free up excessive BSP use for the simple purpose of Lightmaps. Instead, for strict Lightmap differences, there should be a way to reference them though to the same BSP.

I just don't like the idea that I have to run 128 BSPs each with the same structure but different Lightmaps just to get a day-night system that's fluid and smooth, wasting massive, and I mean MASSIVE amounts of disk / bandwidth space in the process, mainly on the download end for the end-user, but still...

'twould be nice to consolidate all those Lightmap variants into one BSP.

About device and BSP syncing, is that also possible?

[Kornman00]

It *shouldn't* require multiple bsps, but I haven't researched how to change the lightmap dynamically during the game so it may or may not require a bsp for each lightmap.


structure bsp information
-> skies
- sky reference
-> lightmaps
- bitmap reference
- sky block index

Basically how the data would flow in the yelo tag.

All someone should really have to do is just hook tool's lightmap creation function in a couple of places for autofilling the yelo tag data and saving\closing\changing the current lightmap calculated by tool. Just FYI, it would just be a hack and would take as long as tool normally would if you ran the lightmapper X times at Y quality. Rather simple process (in theory) stringing everything together.

Note that I'm not saying I'm implementing this. As I said, I would answer ideas with possible how-tos for people to implement themselves.

[Rambo]

Well, right now, you can only have one lightmap per BSP. There is no way to switch it, as you're probably aware. That lightmap uses Sky0 as a default source for the lightmap, unless the cluster portals in the "Clusters" section of the BSP dictate otherwise. I have set a BSP to use Sky7 in Clusters and it does, but it depends on what's in cluster portals.

We need a way to bypass the Clusters information for lighting and use Yelo's information in the so-called Lightmaps section, or have the two work hand-in-hand where the FIRST lightmap is default by clusters and the SECOND and so on is default by Yelo.

I still say it would take longer to run several lightmaps than it would to run just one because it has to do a "pass" for each and every condition the map is in.

Example:

Let's say Lightmap 0 in the lightmap block is night time. OK, that's good. The sky has the appropriate settings for night. Lightmap 1 would be dawn; Lightmap 2, day; Lightmap 3, dusk. A very rough day-night system like the one in RC2 of Blood Creek. First, Tool would have to render Night's lighting, then Dawn's, then Day's, then Dusk's, in that order. For it to take as long as it would to render one Lightmap (Night alone) seems kind of odd to me.

Care to explain?

I'm just telling you what I've observed. By no way am I trying to supercede your knowledge, Kornman00. I have merely observed that Lightmaps and Cluster Portals are tied together, so in a sense, yes the sky and BSP tags are tied together. You specify the sky in Clusters block and make sure that all the Cluster block entries share the same sky number (as depicted below), and Lightmaps are calculated by that entry.

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss85/Guardian2433/Other%20Screenshots/Lightmaps1.jpg

But that's for Cluster portals.

My problem, or question at best, is... How does one assign multiple lightmaps to the SAME cluster portal? How do I say, "OK Cluster Portal #0 in Cluster block! I want YOU to have data for Lightmap file '..\levels\test\blood_creek\night.bitmap" and "..\levels\test\blood_creek\dawn.bitmap' at the same time."?

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss85/Guardian2433/Other%20Screenshots/Lightmaps2.jpg

That's exactly what I'm trying to accomplish, guys. Right now I am forced to use a BSP for the sole purpose of lighting and multiply that by the number of times the light changes (hence sixten BSPs with twelve for a day cycle, three for transitionals between dawn and night, and one for night). It's very clunky and an absolute waste of space because the same geometry is also mirrored sixteen times, thereby causing the map to jump exponentially in filesize. If my BSP is 8 MB with Lightmap data, then 8 MB x 16 is what..., 128 MB JUST for BSP data alone? C'mon guys. Please help us all out here. Blood Creek is nearing 300 MB because of this. If we could just shove all the Lightmaps into one single BSP, it would save at least 80% of that space in the 128 MB for all sixteen BSPs. And if I went even smoother on the day cycle and upped it to 64 for day and then did 64 for night so the moonshadows crept across the map?

Please, I beg of you. Do something! I don't think Dennis on Halomaps, or for that matter, anyone, would want to host and/or download a 600 MB uncompressed .map file, compressed to like 200 MB filesize just because he chooses to use .ZIP and not 7-Zip (.7z) for file compresion. And I don't think I'm being selfish here because of Blood Creek RC3. This is also for anybody that wishes to create a day-night-enabled map, because I do intend to not only release the scripts that drive it, but also teach people how to get it working, especially if device syncing works over OSv2.

This isn't just about Rambo, guys; it's about everyone having something to enjoy and work with. My request is not a self-centered one.

Thanks for listening (or reading, or whatever)

[malolo420]

Sync'd up scenery. Like lets say you got an MP map with a destructible bridge, but when it gets destroyed and some one joins it looks as if its still there but its not.
Same with the glass material.

And about that one person who said more fp animations, I'm not sure if he meant this but having more then 1 animation per animation, so if he has like 3 melee animations they play in sequence or by random.

I'll probably think of more, but that's what I got for now. I really think my first idea could bring a lot of whole new wicked game play aspects into it, just a thought.

[Dwood]

i am researching this problem and will get back with you later after talking with igm about it

[malolo420]

Oh this idea has probably been said but I'm gunna say it just incase.
If its not to much trouble, maybe you could fix the recorded animations for sapien. I would think OS could make that possible.

[klange]

I need a (resolution width height refresh_rate) command so I can play in widescreen while actually using Open Sauce on Linux, kthxbye

[jcap]

Why not force it with -vidmode w,h,r?

Or does it not work on that crazy lunix hacker language?

[klange]

Why not force it with -vidmode w,h,r?

Or does it not work on that crazy lunix hacker language?
I explain that here (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showpost.php?p=435157&postcount=270), it's either Open Sauce or command line parameters.

[Rambo]

Oh this idea has probably been said but I'm gunna say it just incase.
If its not to much trouble, maybe you could fix the recorded animations for sapien. I would think OS could make that possible.
Yes I second that. I'm also working on a SP campaign (or trying to) based off of a movie script we have for a movie we're about to do, but cannot proceed past the first level WITHOUT recorded animations, and I refuse to use existing ones because they do not fit the script.

BTW: Not trying to go off-topic, but in This thread (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17019&page=2), I didn't say any of you were flamers or any of that stuff. I merely said I've been on boards where people do and I'm tired of it, so I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I know I can come off a little harsh at times, but I'm sorry for it.

Anyway, still looking for help. I'll go back to topic now. Sorry for the diversion.

[MissingSpartan7]

would it be possible to -have a function that allows you to lower your gun?
-have a "spectator" mode which makes the player basically just a flying camera?
-have a sort of "theatre" mode? (or watch a previous game from the view of another player)
-and can we have more grenade types? (2 is not enough)

[Limited]

would it be possible to -have a function that allows you to lower your gun?
v2 will have all things from Yelo Battery, so yes weapon placement will be possible.
-have a "spectator" mode which makes the player basically just a flying camera?
That is already in halo, debug_camera_load and then debug_camera_save. Coordinates are saved in camera.txt if you ever needed them. Use WASD and hold mouse middle button to move around.
-have a sort of "theatre" mode? (or watch a previous game from the view of another player)
Can not record games. You can watch in real time the view from another player, but hud wont appear.
-and can we have more grenade types? (2 is not enough)
Not sure

:D

[klange]

Can not record games. You can watch in real time the view from another player, but hud wont appear.
That's not... entirely... accurate.

My favorite quote from Independence Day

I've said too much...

[Limited]

That's not... entirely... accurate.

My favorite quote from Independence Day

I've said too much...
He means like Halo 3, where you can sit back and watch the action unfold.

[klange]

He means like Halo 3, where you can sit back and watch the action unfold.
Again... that's not entirely accurate, and I've said too much. Trust me.

[Dwood]

1. have a "spectator" mode which makes the player basically just a flying camera?
2. have a sort of "theatre" mode? (or watch a previous game from the view of another player)


1 will only be possible with client-to-server apps, and will not likely be included in Open Sauce. If you want something like that you best be talkin' to IGM.

2. This is possible however how I think this to be possible is not plausible.

[Rambo]

The replaying of games played won't work. It would involve coding a whole new feature that involves saving a file that contains control data and real-time game data, or at best, an AVI of the game, which would be almost impossible to add to the game engine, but a waste of time.

If you really care to watch replays of your game, use FRAPS or Xfire video.

Sorry man, but let's try to think realistic. Poor Kornman00 has enough on his plate. He doesn't need crazy ideas that are hardly if at all possible. Besides, it would involve modifying the Halo Executable, most likely.

Nice ideas, but they don't seem feasible, however.

[ShadowSpartan]

The replaying of games played won't work. It would involve coding a whole new feature that involves saving a file that contains control data and real-time game data, or at best, an AVI of the game, which would be almost impossible to add to the game engine, but a waste of time.
You have no idea what you are talking about.


Besides, it would involve modifying the Halo Executable, most likely.
This only reinforces my above statement. You obviously do not even know what an OS dll does.

[TomClancy]

Not sure if this is remotely possible or if it even belongs in here, but a Gungame type gametype? I thought it be might applicable because it requires some form of scripting which OS may be able to assist in? I don't know, this is outside my realm of knowledge so I'm just shooting into darkness, to be honest.

[Dwood]

Kornman we need to talkkkkk - a friend and I just got done coding a .dll that for all intents and purposes acts as a devmode toggle + dev trainer, and I want to inject that dll into Halo through Open Sauce.

Here's it... "working" :
http://www.xfire.com/video/1007b2/


<I was retarded in this post>

[Limited]

You'd have to recode it all I side of the Open Saucd project. Look at code already released to help.

[jcap]

Fix the camera code! No third person camera tricks work because you can't aim for shit. I know bitterbanana put his code in there, but something is wrong with it. Didn't he make a third person app that worked fine for aiming?

[Kornman00]

kornman won't respond to my pm's or posts...
I don't really post "work" related posts until the weekend, when I'm not actually performing my IRL job during the day.

Open Sauce should NOT be used to load more DLLs which further alter the game. Don't think you can circumvent the source code license. If you (talking in general here) dare not follow the license and release something OS based without the changes to the source code, you are officially going against community development and are subject to copyleft infringement. I've put the time and effort to put out this shit to you guys for free (because it would just be silly to charge without actual permission to do this from MS\Bungie) and the least any future developers can do is uphold the license (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL) agreement of the source code. Don't be the one to ruin it for everyone else. This may be the last official update to Open Sauce, but it doesn't mean I won't release some more works (not specifically just source code or software) down the line for people to reference.

With that said, everything you do should be done via the Open Sauce channel to keep things consistent and ran\installed from a single source.

Just because you can't aim for shit jcap doesn't give you the right to bitch about camera tricks! Also, if you're referring to the code that came in the initial release, that game extension code for the camera was commented out (thus not executed)...you should have more sense when going about enabling code which wasn't enabled by default in an initial release. BB may have done such an app, but it was probably when he was still doing his stuff in VB (poor bloke :()

EDIT: I wasn't jumping the gun, I was laying down the rules before anyone got any funny ideas. Like I said, I was speaking in general, not to any one person. If you're wating to incorporate it into Open Sauce then just modify the Yelo code base. However, devmode isn't required when using OS and forcing expressions to the console isn't the most efficent way to do that flickering wireframe effect

[Dwood]

whoa whoa jumping the gun there sparky. I have the code and will release it however I either want a way to inject it or incorporate it into Open Sauce.

(heh... i called you sparky)

Edit b/c of Korn's edit: Okay then what section of Open Sauce do I reference/use?


<I was retarded in this post>

[Limited]

Like kornman said what you want to do is easily done in OS.

Don't look to incorperate code in to OS, simply code in OS. Work out how it runs, what does what. Then incoperate your theory into OS.

[MissingSpartan7]

could we have speed and jump modifying commands?
eg. (player_set_speed (player_# or just "players") (# *speed multiplier -1 being default*)
and (player_set_jump_height (player_# or just "players") (# *jump multiplier -1 being default*)
or maybe even a command which allows things like suicide grunts and beserk brutes (ai_replace (encounter) (squad) (original ai tag name *"grunt minor needler"*) (new ai tag name/reference *"grunt minor suicidal"*) )

[FireScythe]

Would it be possible to add two tool commands that seperate the lightmap UV-ing and bitmap creation and radiosity itself? Just so that should people want to bake there own lightmaps they dont have to wait for debug lightmaps to complete, but still have the UV's and bitmap there to use.

[il Duce Primo]

Could you modify the tool command lightmaps so it could save as it is still running like radiosity?

[Siliconmaster]

Could you modify the tool command lightmaps so it could save as it is still running like radiosity?

This would be nice. Tool can run in the background, but sapien allows mid- lightmap saving. Any way to combine the two would be very useful and time-saving.

[klange]

Just going to throw this one out here:

I'd like to see a custom chat interface implemented with Open Sauce. The basic idea here is to remove the built-in chat by making it not display and replace it with one that reads and sends the same strings but adds some new features, particularly:
- Formatting (bold, italic, underline)
- Smileys (especially, ones from here :realsmug: :iamafag: )
- Colors (yeah... pretty simple idea there)
- If possible, extend the character limit if the server is running it.
- Custom chat positioning
- "edit boxes" for all resolutions, possibly WYSIWYG

For best operation, this assumes that the people on the other end are also using Open Sauce and will therefore see the formatting instead of whatever our coding format is (probably bbcode, as it's easy to implement).

I know that this can be done, seeing as Limited and Skyline already have their overlay that does text and images, and Yelo already produces a chat log, and I assume sending can't be that ridiculously troublesome.

[FireScythe]

I suppose that should be possible, I can see a couple of problems though.
Formatting - If you have to type the formatting it would make sending messages take longer, reducing the amount of time your playing. And even if the formatting is automatic, it still has to go through the normal text system, which would look fugly for non OS players.

Smilies - Don't see why not, the smilies would have to be standard for everybody and would have to look good for a long time, and as such have no meme smilies.

Colours - Same problems as Formatting, although a colour could be assigned to each player so that you can more easily see who is talking.

Character limit - Rather than changing the character limit, could it instead be possible to automatically break up and send a long message on seperate lines?

[MissingSpartan7]

another great idea, can we have more characters in player names?
(there's so many names i'd like to have that don't fit...)

[Dwood]

Why was this removed from sticky?

[klange]

Why was this removed from sticky?
Update #2 is coming soon, and the ideas have started to dwindle to the occasional bit of "hey, this would be cool" every other week or os.

At least, I assume that's why.