Abortion doctor killed in church

[FreedomFighter7]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_tiller_shooting

I don't really have an opinion on it, I think abortion is wrong though in my humble opinion.

I thought abortion was illegal? If so did this guy still practice it? Ah, I never read the full article. It says he still does abortion at 21 weeks. Geez it's scary what people can do with information. Like putting the license plates of a abortion doctor online and other stuff, its just asking for someone to murder the person.

[Heathen]

I think this is when religion needs to back the fuck off.

If it were any other cult it would be deemed a gang.
But because its a popularly practiced cult its okay.

[Sel]

Wow

Fuck these fuckers who think it's their place to tell people how to live their lives when it comes to trivial things like this.

[Heathen]

and yes, it is legal.
And it should be.
I am usually very open minded when it comes to opinions, but making it illegal is
RE
TARD
ED

By making it legal if necessary, you can save mothers who's lives are in danger.
Without it you are not even letting that be an option.

It should be legal when necessary.
Not just any slut who forgot that dicks sneeze babies should be allowed to have an abortion though.
If you fuck up and don't want it, give it up for adoption.

[ultama121]

Religious fanatics scare me. D:

[Heathen]

I know. Its getting to the point where if I was in a situation where I had to walk passed a bunch of bandanna wearing, wife beater wearing, stink eye throwin black dudes or a bunch of smiley, church slogan teeshirt wearing, pamphlet passing church nuts, you can bet your ass I am going to walk passed the "not going to beat and burn me" black kids.

[DarkHalo003]

Don't make this a fight about Religion being corrupt. That's taking what you dislike and blaming it on everything. It's obnoxious.

This is sad and really outrageous. Sadly, as people, we have over whelming issues like this we have yet to over come. What happened was that he walked into a room where people hated him so much for an action that he did they killed him. It's like me walking into hear and saying I believe in Jesus Christ; y'all go apeshit and tell me I'm a stupid moron when that is entirely untrue.

If someone came up to you and told you you're an idiot and necrofite for not believing in a religion, I doubt you'd give them seconds to breathe since half of the people hear act like it every post.

I believe Abortion is wrong if the girl isn't in trouble of dying or incapacitation and they kill the fetus and throw it away. If they use it for research to help another life, then I'm okay with abortion. But if someone goes and gets pregnant and kills their child because they're not responsible for their actions, then that's just another petty story that we humans have done on our own. Makes you wonder why we treat eachother so badly rh?

[Heathen]

Don't make this a fight about Religion being corrupt. That's taking what you dislike and blaming it on everything. It's obnoxious.

This is sad and really outrageous. Sadly, as people, we have over whelming issues like this we have yet to over come. What happened was that he walked into a room where people hated him so much for an action that he did they killed him. It's like me walking into hear and saying I believe in Jesus Christ; y'all go apeshit and tell me I'm a stupid moron when that is entirely untrue.

If someone came up to you and told you you're an idiot and necrofite for not believing in a religion, I doubt you'd give them seconds to breathe since half of the people hear act like it every post.

I believe Abortion is wrong if the girl isn't in trouble of dying or incapacitation and they kill the fetus and throw it away. If they use it for research to help another life, then I'm okay with abortion. But if someone goes and gets pregnant and kills their child because they're not responsible for their actions, then that's just another petty story that we humans have done on our own. Makes you wonder why we treat eachother so badly rh?
I will agree that its not the religion, its the followers that are at fault.

But thats the only part of religion that takes a physical manifestation and therefore, in my eyes, are the embodyment of the religion itself.
No where in the religion does it say to kill a nonbelievier. Its when people defy their VERY faith to try to uphold it.

[rossmum]

I thought it was absolutely sacreligious at the highest level to spill blood in a church?

Abortion isn't a nice thing by any measure, but I don't believe there's any legitimate reasons for it to be illegal (at least, before a certain point in the fetus's development, unless it's necessary for the mother's safety). I have no beef with people who think it's wrong, but people who think it's wrong and feel the need to ram this down everyone else's throats are ignorant morons and should learn to back the fuck off and keep their views to themselves. It's one thing to have an opinion, it's another to try and force everyone else into following it too.

On the subject of religion, I'll be honest with you: I may be Christian but I don't go to church. I have a few times with my grandmother for Christmas services and things, but personally I don't believe that church attendance is necessary at all when you can believe in God just as much without ever going to it. To me, some churches are little more than a front for a bunch of greedy men who use distorted revisions of religion to further their own agenda. I won't start naming and shaming, but it's probably pretty obvious which one is the main offender in my eyes (although I suppose I could be biased, I'm a proddy).

[Bodzilla]

I've said it before and i'll say it again.
If abortion is murder because it stops the potential for new life.. then abstinence has a bloody lot to answer for.

E: stop calling it a child. it is not a child.
it is a fetus.

[DarkHalo003]

I thought it was absolutely sacreligious at the highest level to spill blood in a church?

Abortion isn't a nice thing by any measure, but I don't believe there's any legitimate reasons for it to be illegal (at least, before a certain point in the fetus's development, unless it's necessary for the mother's safety). I have no beef with people who think it's wrong, but people who think it's wrong and feel the need to ram this down everyone else's throats are ignorant morons and should learn to back the fuck off and keep their views to themselves. It's one thing to have an opinion, it's another to try and force everyone else into following it too.

On the subject of religion, I'll be honest with you: I may be Christian but I don't go to church. I have a few times with my grandmother for Christmas services and things, but personally I don't believe that church attendance is necessary at all when you can believe in God just as much without ever going to it. To me, some churches are little more than a front for a bunch of greedy men who use distorted revisions of religion to further their own agenda. I won't start naming and shaming, but it's probably pretty obvious which one is the main offender in my eyes (although I suppose I could be biased, I'm a proddy).
Yeah, you're not supposed to be over zealous and kill any person who doesn't believe in God. That's the mistake that the Medieval followers made in the Crusades; we basically went into the Middle East and kicked them in the balls and ran away.

Killing is against the commandments, which means that the killer was just psychopathic or wasn't thinking what to truly think. It's things like these that keep Christianity from growing in some areas. Jesus/God loved not killed.

[TVTyrant]

If the guy was giving third tri abortions, then I really dont care. I'm pretty sure those are illegal for one, and for two that just stupid. Thatd be like puting a bullet proof vest on top of a bullet wound.

[Xetsuei]

Just like hatecrimes, there needs to be a special punishment for those who commit crimes in the name of god/religion.

:suicide:

[Bodzilla]

God loved not killed.
thats not the way the bible tells it.....

[Heathen]

I thought it was absolutely sacreligious at the highest level to spill blood in a church?

Abortion isn't a nice thing by any measure, but I don't believe there's any legitimate reasons for it to be illegal (at least, before a certain point in the fetus's development, unless it's necessary for the mother's safety). I have no beef with people who think it's wrong, but people who think it's wrong and feel the need to ram this down everyone else's throats are ignorant morons and should learn to back the fuck off and keep their views to themselves. It's one thing to have an opinion, it's another to try and force everyone else into following it too.

On the subject of religion, I'll be honest with you: I may be Christian but I don't go to church. I have a few times with my grandmother for Christmas services and things, but personally I don't believe that church attendance is necessary at all when you can believe in God just as much without ever going to it. To me, some churches are little more than a front for a bunch of greedy men who use distorted revisions of religion to further their own agenda. I won't start naming and shaming, but it's probably pretty obvious which one is the main offender in my eyes (although I suppose I could be biased, I'm a proddy).
I agree in every degree

:suicide:
good point, that was a little bit anti-productive.
Typed while enraged.

[DarkHalo003]

thats not the way the bible tells it.....
God gives and takes away. Let me rephrase: Jesus emphasized love instead of murdering other. Love your enemy as yourself.

You take things too literally, a message is in there that is pretty obvious if you ask me. Plus, you can't just rip out a section or so that you think is crappy; you'd be no better than the radicals out there in the Middle East or in this situation. Read the whole story, meaning read the entire Bible instead of one section. This is rhetorical.

Meh, if this becomes an issue (the law to fight hypocritical people) then maybe we should all spend some time in the slammer. We have laws for people who commit murder; it's called big time Jail for 15+ years.

[Bodzilla]

i have.

as far as i'm concerned god was a fucking schizophrenic maniac.
i mean jesus christ burning and dismantling cities, killing women, children and live stock?????

little pig, little pig, let me in or i'll burn your city to the ground.

[DarkHalo003]

i have.

as far as i'm concerned god was a fucking schizophrenic maniac.
i mean jesus christ burning and dismantling cities, killing women, children and live stock?????

little pig, little pig, let me in or i'll burn your city to the ground.
1.) Then you interpreted everything backwards.

2.) What the fuck. The Old Testament is crazy as hell because frankly we were and still are crazy as hell.

3.) What. The. Fuck. The only time Jesus did anything remotely (which I mean is pretty damn remote) is when he flipped three or so tables at the Jerusalem temple for selling sacrifices (big no-no to even sacrifice back then). Yeah, shut it.

4.) 2x WTF.

5.) 4x WTF.

[Bodzilla]

read both books bro.

[Mr Buckshot]

I'm atheist but at least I have the courtesy to respect the beliefs of religious people. I don't go round screaming how religious people are inferior to me or whatever because that's no different from religious fanatics screaming how they're superior to those who don't follow their religion.

I don't think anything is wrong with abortion. The thing being "killed" is a fetus, not a child. Hell, there's no guarantee that the fetus will even develop into a healthy child if it's left alone (it's called a miscarriage).

The mother has every right to decide whether she wants the baby or not, until it reaches the point when you can truly guarantee the baby will come out alive and kicking. After that point, abortions are a no-no, in fact it shouldn't be called abortion any more. But before that point, when no one can be sure a living baby will develop, abortion's fine.

[DarkHalo003]

read both books bro.
I do. Old Testament has a lot of stuff involved with what you said. Anything about Jesus you said was totally off the wall. God Flooded the Earth because it was filled with so much evil (humanity became self-indulged), promised never to do it again after doing what He did. He loved us enough to Sacrifice His only Son for our sins (wrongful acts if you will).

Have you read an Apologetics Bible?

[Heathen]

I'm atheist but at least I have the courtesy to respect the beliefs of religious people. I don't go round screaming how religious people are inferior to me or whatever because that's no different from religious fanatics screaming how they're superior to those who don't follow their religion.

same.

I call those kind of atheists "THOSE" kinds of atheists.

I have a friend acquaintance that's one of THOSE kinds of atheists and it pisses me off.

[DarkHalo003]

same.

I call those kind of atheists "THOSE" kinds of atheists.

I have a friend acquaintance that's one of THOSE kinds of atheists and it pisses me off.
I know a kid like that from Middle School and High School. The kid in Middle School is psycho-depressive though (not judging, speculating), but the kid in High School is anti-Christ practically. The kid complained this weekend about graduating at a church (where the graduation takes place) for graduation (duh). Said that it ruined the mood. Get over it. If you can't respect other's beliefs than you need a reality check.

[Donut]

if a 16 year old girl gets gangbanged and gets pregnant, do you seriously think that kid should be born? i think its up the the girl to decide if she wants to have the kid or not, but i mean, what the fuck happened to adoption? i realize in this situation, adoption might not work, but still in general, i think its overlooked.

the argument that i dont understand is when people say "its the girl's body, she can do whatever she wants to it". seems like if that were the case, then any mother could kill their children and have it be legal
i also dont get how 3rd trimester abortions are legal. if the baby is able to survive outside of the mother, isnt that murder if you abort it? and seriously, how long does it take you to realize that youre pregnant?

E: im catholic, and i still see why abortion is a necessary thing in society. if you dont support it, then dont have one done. the church condemns abortion because it is murder. well if you kill somebody who performs abortions, didnt you just commit murder? the fuck is going on in these people's minds?

[DarkHalo003]

if a 16 year old girl gets gangbanged and gets pregnant, do you seriously think that kid should be born? i think its up the the girl to decide if she wants to have the kid or not, but i mean, what the fuck happened to adoption? i realize in this situation, adoption might not work, but still in general, i think its overlooked.

the argument that i dont understand is when people say "its the girl's body, she can do whatever she wants to it". seems like if that were the case, then any mother could kill their children and have it be legal
i also dont get how 3rd trimester abortions are legal. if the baby is able to survive outside of the mother, isnt that murder if you abort it? and seriously, how long does it take you to realize that youre pregnant?
Well, that's the big debate. I think for the most part Abortion should be legal if it's a oppressive or threatening case. The girl doesn't have rights to her body legally till 18. That's something the liberals in DC are ignoring.

People overreact when they see something they dislike. I don't know what goes through other people's minds like this, but it is definitely incorrect.

[thehoodedsmack]

The girl doesn't have rights to her body legally till 18.

Really? I never knew that, but that's stupid. Seriously. :mech:

[Donut]

The girl doesn't have rights to her body legally till 18. That's something the liberals in DC are ignoring.
thats not what im referring to. but i see what you mean by the big debate. my opinion is that the baby is a living thing as soon as it has a heart beat. murder is defined as killing a living thing, so it seems like it would be murder to remove the baby's ability to survive before it can survive on its own. the girl is the carrier.

[Jean-Luc]

The girl doesn't have rights to her body legally till 18.
Run that past me again?

Last I checked it was 16. Regardless of that however, I don't think age should have any impact on whether or not the girl should be allowed to choose an abortion. I wouldn't want to see 14 year olds walking around pregnant.

[Heathen]

if a 16 year old girl gets gangbanged and gets pregnant, do you seriously think that kid should be born? i think its up the the girl to decide if she wants to have the kid or not, but i mean, what the fuck happened to adoption? i realize in this situation, adoption might not work, but still in general, i think its overlooked.

the argument that i dont understand is when people say "its the girl's body, she can do whatever she wants to it". seems like if that were the case, then any mother could kill their children and have it be legal
i also dont get how 3rd trimester abortions are legal. if the baby is able to survive outside of the mother, isnt that murder if you abort it? and seriously, how long does it take you to realize that youre pregnant?

E: im catholic, and i still see why abortion is a necessary thing in society. if you dont support it, then dont have one done. the church condemns abortion because it is murder. well if you kill somebody who performs abortions, didnt you just commit murder? the fuck is going on in these people's minds?
this many times.

rape is bad.

my sister was raped and she raised the child and STILL went through college.

But she is a fucking trooper.

[Xetsuei]

The girl doesn't have rights to her body legally till 18. That's something the liberals in DC are ignoring.

This. My sister once said, "It's my body and I can do what I want with it," to my parents. My parents just said, "Yeah, well we're still paying for it and your under 18." Seriously people.

[Terry]

I remember learning that the cut-off is technically 24 weeks before its illegal :S
In any case, the cut-off dates don't really change much ethically besides the fact that the "ball of cells" is now distinctly human.

I don't just don't see why its anyone's business besides that of the mother and doctor. I definitely wouldn't like to have someone close to me perform an abortion, but at the end of the day, it isn't anything to do with me. Others should think like this too.


I can't even see where these people come from KILLING the doctor. Sure, their religion does not condone it, but I don't even think the bible says KILL THE BABY KILLERS.

Only thing I can say is that these people aren't any better than the doctor, if not far worse.

[Heathen]

I remember learning that the cut-off is technically 24 weeks before its illegal :S
In any case, the cut-off dates don't really change much ethically besides the fact that the "ball of cells" is now distinctly human.

I don't just don't see why its anyone's business besides that of the mother and doctor. I definitely wouldn't like to have someone close to me perform an abortion, but at the end of the day, it isn't anything to do with me. Others should think like this too.


I can't even see where these people come from KILLING the doctor. Sure, their religion does not condone it, but I don't even think the bible says KILL THE BABY KILLERS.

Only thing I can say is that these people aren't any better than the doctor, if not far worse.
smart man here^

[DarkHalo003]

I concur. Bring him a Klondike bar.

[Jean-Luc]

I can't even see where these people come from KILLING the doctor. Sure, their religion does not condone it, but I don't even think the bible says KILL THE BABY KILLERS.

The 6th Commandment states clearly, "Thou shalt not kill." You will often find in religion, that people do not follow it in a way that seems logical, and they will often take the religious scripture as fact, rather than a set of guidelines on how to live your life (not trying to start a fight with that, just saying that I don't believe any of the actual stories in the Bible as fact, and Noah's Ark can gtfo).

[Heathen]

The 6th Commandment states clearly, "Thou shalt not kill." You will often find in religion, that people do not follow it in a way that seems logical, and they will often take the religious scripture as fact, rather than a set of guidelines on how to live your life (not trying to start a fight with that, just saying that I don't believe any of the actual stories in the Bible as fact, and Noah's Ark can gtfo).
its not literal, they are moral guidelines.

this ftw.

[Xetsuei]

You will often find in religion, that people do not follow it in a way that seems logical, and they will often take the religious scripture as fact,

You're basing what you say on the stereotype. Watch yourself.

[Jean-Luc]

its not literal, they are moral guidelines.
Know what I think it comes down to? People love to be in everyone else's business, and tell them what to do. Period.


You're basing what you say on the stereotype. Watch yourself.
I said OFTEN, not always. I'm not saying all religious people are like that, not even close. It's just what you hear about, and what I've seen in real life, and the same goes for the above^^^

[DarkHalo003]

You're basing what you say on the stereotype. Watch yourself.
This is true as well.

[Xetsuei]

I said OFTEN, not always.

It's not even close to often. They're extremists, and there aren't a lot of them. It only seems often because of the media.

[Jean-Luc]

It's not even close to often. They're extremists, and there aren't a lot of them. It only seems often because of the media.
I apologize if it seemed offensive, wasn't trying to play on the stereotype of religion. I've just seen a lot of it.

[Roostervier]

You're basing what you say on the stereotype. Watch yourself.
Can't say I agree. Most people I know that are religious dare not question the bible for fear of displeasing God. My whole family is religious (this is including cousins, aunts, uncles, etc, except for my sister), and they're (with the exception of my dad) pretty much like Jean explained. And the times I've been forced to go to church, I've seen that the others there are also like this. My dad and I are probably in a very small minority that freely questions the bible. Personally, I don't think the bible is meant to be taken literally, at all. It should be taken figuratively.

[mech]

A bible is a guide, not the necessarily the only way.

[Xetsuei]

Can't say I agree. Most people I know that are religious dare not question the bible for fear of displeasing God. My whole family is religious (this is including cousins, aunts, uncles, etc, except for my sister), and they're (with the exception of my dad) pretty much like Jean explained. And the times I've been forced to go to church, I've seen that the others there are also like this. My dad and I are probably in a very small minority that freely questions the bible. Personally, I don't think the bible is meant to be taken literally, at all. It should be taken figuratively.

Can't say anyone I've known has had the same experience.

[Roostervier]

Probably because they belong in the category everyone else (religious) is at and it seems normal to them.

[Heathen]

It's not even close to often. They're extremists, and there aren't a lot of them. It only seems often because of the media.
locally its often because I live in a shitty place. You know how I know heaven doesn't exist? Because if its supposed to be perfect, they wouldn't let religious nuts in.

[Heathen]

A bible is a guide, not the necessarily the only way.
most people dont have your words of wisdom

[Bodzilla]

I do. Old Testament has a lot of stuff involved with what you said. Anything about Jesus you said was totally off the wall. God Flooded the Earth because it was filled with so much evil (humanity became self-indulged), promised never to do it again after doing what He did. He loved us enough to Sacrifice His only Son for our sins (wrongful acts if you will).

Have you read an Apologetics Bible?
what about the idea of eternal damnation.

that jesus, such a sweet boy.

i realize i've been a bit blunt, not trying to provoke ya, i jsut have strong feelings about dogma's of any kind.

Look the way i see it religion should always be a life-style choice and not your life.
when it becomes a part of what makes you, you, i think you need to step back and re-evaluate why your doing it.

[Bodzilla]

the threat of a big stick looming over your head should never be a way to run your life.
and thats exactly what it promise's.

it's not faith, it's fear.
and fuck that.

[rossmum]

The only fear of a big stick hanging over my head is that I'll somehow do something stupid which goes against everything I stand for, really.

[Bodzilla]

then why all the other useless shit if it's already something you decided on your own something you stand for.

it's just useless shit that bogs ya down, clouds ya judgement and holds us all back.

[king_nothing_]

I remember learning that the cut-off is technically 24 weeks before its illegal :S
In any case, the cut-off dates don't really change much ethically besides the fact that the "ball of cells" is now distinctly human.
That's not why a cut-off date is in place. 24 weeks is the limit of viability, which is when the fetus has 50% chance of survival outside of the womb.


I can't even see where these people come from KILLING the doctor. Sure, their religion does not condone it, but I don't even think the bible says KILL THE BABY KILLERS.

Only thing I can say is that these people aren't any better than the doctor, if not far worse.Not many people are going to disagree with you on that. Isn't it just one person, though? I'm not sure who you're referring to when you say "these people".

[king_nothing_]

and yes, it is legal.
And it should be.
I am usually very open minded when it comes to opinions, but making it illegal is
RE
TARD
ED

By making it legal if necessary, you can save mothers who's lives are in danger.
Without it you are not even letting that be an option.

It should be legal when necessary.
Not just any slut who forgot that dicks sneeze babies should be allowed to have an abortion though.
If you fuck up and don't want it, give it up for adoption.
I don't think you fully grasp the abortion debate.

You would be hard-pressed to find someone who believes abortion should be illegal with no exceptions. Even on the pro-life side of the debate, most believe it's acceptable if the woman's life is in danger. The abortion argument centers around abortion-on-demand. Even if abortion is ever made "illegal", I guarantee you it would not be prohibited for cases in which the woman's life is in serious danger, and it probably wouldn't be prohibited in cases of rape or incest, either.

[Sel]

I don't think you fully grasp the abortion debate.

You would be hard-pressed to find someone who believes abortion should be illegal with no exceptions. Even on the pro-life side of the debate, most believe it's acceptable if the woman's life is in danger. The abortion argument centers around abortion-on-demand. Even if abortion is ever made "illegal", I guarantee you it would not be prohibited for cases in which the woman's life is in serious danger, and it probably wouldn't be prohibited in cases of rape or incest, either.

Remember that doctor who performed an abortion for a little kid (13?) who got raped, and then a bunch of christians went to his house and killed him?

yeah

:downs:

[king_nothing_]

I'm atheist but at least I have the courtesy to respect the beliefs of religious people. I don't go round screaming how religious people are inferior to me or whatever because that's no different from religious fanatics screaming how they're superior to those who don't follow their religion.

same.
Some of your posts in this thread seem to suggest otherwise.

(talking to Heathen)

[StankBacon]

the anti abortion people are all nutjobs.

[rossmum]

...and it probably wouldn't be prohibited in cases of rape or incest, either.
It used to be.

[RecycleBin]

Who the fuck thinks it's their right to decide what to do and what not to do with my body? I don't give a shit what your "beliefs" (did I spell that right?) say what is and isn't proper. If I want to go wank off in my oven then god damnit I'm going to wank off in my oven. Anybody who thinks they can control whatever the fuck they want can go eat shit and die.

[king_nothing_]

Remember that doctor who performed an abortion for a little kid (13?) who got raped, and then a bunch of christians went to his house and killed him?

yeah

:downs:
No, I'm not familiar with it, but I don't see how it's relevant to what I said at all. Obviously there are fringe nutjobs. I was speaking of the majority.

[Sel]

No, I'm not familiar with it, but I don't see how it's relevant to what I said at all. Obviously there are fringe nutjobs. I was speaking of the majority.

It's sad that the minority is still thousands of people, isn't it :downs:

[king_nothing_]

It used to be.
Yeah, and racial segregation used to be legal, too. I don't see that being overturned any time soon, either.

[rossmum]

Yeah, and racial segregation used to be legal, too. I don't see that being overturned any time soon, either.
Don't get all sarky with me; I agree, most sensible people will be willing to make concessions. My point is that there are still people out there who give no fuck as long as their 'moral code' is followed to the letter by everyone else, and as long as church and state continue to be about as separated as Siamese octuplets, there's a chance one of those ignorant prats could find themselves in a position where they can make that call. It's not that big a step in a country like the US, where it can seem at times as if half the states are extremely open and tolerant, and the other half seem to cling desperately to the 'old ways', no matter how morally questionable.

Look at the Catholic church. Despite the whole AIDs thing, the die hards up top are still bitterly against any form of contraception at all. It's not a very big stretch, is it?

[Joshflighter]

Eh, terrorists use the name of religion.. and now so do people in our own communities.

Also, imo, I think abortion is wrong. Abortion is just an excuse to not worry about having sex and then having a baby.. cause hell.. we can kill it, right?

Eh.

[Malloy]

I say purge all religions and create one big company to rule the earth.

sci-fi preminitionlols

E: Oh an abortion ftw, certain people who are born with genetic disfunctions have often said if they had the technology to cxheck before birth they would of wished they'de been killed.

example: Some guy was born with a skin defect and was on Channel 5 (UK TV) and pretty much his skin was allergic to everything and the doctors couldnt cure it and over time his hands had scabbed up so much that his fingers and grown together and he had like scab hoofs was fucked up.

so yah, Now they have the technology to check a babies genetic welfare... It should be given to the parents to have the moral decision of killing it or not. After all abortion is only and option and someone has to make it... you cant blame the concept, blame the deciders.

[nooBBooze]

Like anyone would kill his fellow man over some intelectual argument.
There's a difference between a reason and rationalization.
That guy was a psycho plain and simple.

[rossmum]

Like anyone would kill his fellow man over some intelectual argument.
Then why does it happen so damn often?

(I'd go with the 'humanity sucks' option but I'm just an antisocial cynical fuckhead who goes from wishing the Cold War had gone hot to wanting to help everyone in the timespace of less than an hour)

[Joshflighter]

I just found something ironically funny!

The guy who was killed was killed by a killer, but the guy who was killed was also a killer! :O

[=sw=warlord]

I just found something ironically funny!

The guy who was killed was killed by a killer, but the guy who was killed was also a killer! :O
That's just not funny at all...

I find it extremly arrogant that certain groups of people will hound individuals due to lack of understanding.
The anti abortion groups seem so dead against it that they will go against their own code of conduct just to prove their point which acts counter productive.
I wonder what the world would be like if humans were replaced by machines...

[Joshflighter]

That's just not funny at all...

I find it extremly arrogant that certain groups of people will hound individuals due to lack of understanding.
The anti abortion groups seem so dead against it that they will go against their own code of conduct just to prove their point which acts counter productive.
I wonder what the world would be like if humans were replaced by machines...

Actually it kinda is. Also, its only some people that go against the "code of conduct". Don't group everyone together because of a few extreme people. ;)

[rossmum]

I don't see how innocents dying is funny at all, really.

[klange]

Even if abortion were totally immoral, and even if those fetuses were conscious, that doesn't make murder any more excusable. Like the ol' idiom "two wrongs don't make a right": perfect example.


* Of note, in my wonderful state of Ohio, there is a wrong that makes murder right: if someone is assaulting you on your property, you can kill them without any fear of prosecution. It's called "castle law".

[Joshflighter]

I don't see how innocents dying is funny at all, really.

It isn't. Its the irony that is.

[ICEE]

god damn, this is the kind of person the religions don't want on their side. How sad

[nooBBooze]

Then why does it happen so damn often?


I wouldn't know. But since I don't think I'm in the position to make any assumptions about the motivations of any person, I sure as hell wont leave this task to the media.
I will be studying this shit next semester and I am already dubious against anything they report on.
I suspect that this fucker had some sort of mental condition to begin with. Seeing that this whole abortion fuss is kind of a big deal in the states and since he already was sympathetic to christian rhetoric, the urge to go rampant and actually kill someone, rationalized itself with the concept that killing someone who all these other people seem to be against is justified.
I don't think there actually was any religion behind it but then again that depends on definition. IMO, psycho guy needs to kill and THEN sees that the people who talk in terms wich he thinks to understand [group of people in his immediate vicinity, and abstract entities in the media] would like and accept him if he does something against the people they rally against.
When the deed was done the media can pretty much unleash an uncontrollable, unscientific (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_values) shitstorm of assumptions and summon "experts" who are just as unqualified as me at making assumptions except that what they will say will be exploited by various other groups for their own agendas while I remain an idiot.
The shooter will of course have some sort of attorney on his side and so everything we hear from him from now on should depend on the suspected outcome of the trail.

But again, I could be wrong [wich is very probable] and this whole issue was really caused by a concerned citizen who tried to reestablish the balance between what his favourite read said and what happened in his enviroment.

[TVTyrant]

what about the idea of eternal damnation.

that jesus, such a sweet boy.
In the bible, its stated that if you believe in him, you got o heaven no matter what you practice. Its also stated that those who dont get the chance to know of his sacrifice go, because they never got the chance to believe in him. And I've never ever read a passage where Jesus himself states anything about eternal damnation.

[Dwood]

What?

[Heathen]

Some of your posts in this thread seem to suggest otherwise.

(talking to Heathen)
I find it hard to want to read your posts, but your smile is infectious.

[p0lar_bear]

In the bible, its stated that if you believe in him, you got o heaven no matter what you practice. Its also stated that those who dont get the chance to know of his sacrifice go, because they never got the chance to believe in him. And I've never ever read a passage where Jesus himself states anything about eternal damnation.

This just in: Hitler went to heaven.

This is why I don't get Christianity. More loopholes and self-contradictions than the English language.

[Spartan094]

^lol polar bear
Crazy people:mech:

[FreedomFighter7]

The guy who was killed was killed by a killer, but the guy who was killed was also a killer! :O A very excellent point!


Like the ol' idiom "two wrongs don't make a right": perfect example. If that were true, we wouldn't have the justice system, and capitol punishment wouldn't exist. I'm NOT saying that it was ok that this guy was murdered.


Who the fuck thinks it's their right to decide what to do and what not to do with my body?Thing is, it's not YOUR body, its the babies body. Just because its inside you doesn't make it any more your own. I find it creepy that some women think that since they are the mother of a child or are a pregnant woman, they have the ultimate say in whether that baby lives or dies.

My cousin was having sex with hey boyfriend, then got pregnant when she forgot to take her birth control pill. She had the baby, and she is living just fine with it. She didn't put it up for adoption, and she didn't abort the pregnancy. This all happened when she was 21. There's really no need for abortion. If rape is the issue, those FUCKING CONGRESSMAN ought to do something like increasing the penalties for rape. It pisses me off that they have done no such thing. Lazy asses.

[StankBacon]

^ nutjob.




/troll

[Mr Buckshot]

A very excellent point!

If that were true, we wouldn't have the justice system, and capitol punishment wouldn't exist. I'm NOT saying that it was ok that this guy was murdered.

Thing is, it's not YOUR body, its the babies body. Just because its inside you doesn't make it any more your own. I find it creepy that some women think that since they are the mother of a child or are a pregnant woman, they have the ultimate say in whether that baby lives or dies.

My cousin was having sex with hey boyfriend, then got pregnant when she forgot to take her birth control pill. She had the baby, and she is living just fine with it. She didn't put it up for adoption, and she didn't abort the pregnancy. This all happened when she was 21. There's really no need for abortion. If rape is the issue, those FUCKING CONGRESSMAN ought to do something like increasing the penalties for rape. It pisses me off that they have done no such thing. Lazy asses.

LOL @ the last paragraph. And I second StankBacon.

[SnaFuBAR]

Thing is, it's not YOUR body, its the babies body.
Didn't you send me a PM saying you were gonna stop posting? What happened?

[Masterz1337]

I don't support Abortion.

[=sw=warlord]

Thing is, it's not YOUR body, its the babies body. Just because its inside you doesn't make it any more your own. I find it creepy that some women think that since they are the mother of a child or are a pregnant woman, they have the ultimate say in whether that baby lives or dies.

Untill the fetus has developed enough that it can be cut from the umbilical it is the mothers body.
It's not a baby untill it has formed into a baby....you eat eggs right? same thing applies there.

[Xetsuei]

Untill the fetus has developed enough that it can be cut from the umbilical it is the mothers body.
It's not a baby untill it has formed into a baby....you eat eggs right? same thing applies there.

I'm going to be captain obvious for a second.

Chickens =/= Humans.

[Jean-Luc]

The principle is the same. You're, by all technical means, performing an abortion on a chicken fetus by eating it before it can grow.

[Heathen]

The principle is the same. You're, by all technical means, performing an abortion on a chicken fetus by eating it before it can grow.
You know what mayo is?
yeahhh. I went there.

[=sw=warlord]

I'm going to be captain obvious for a second.

Chickens =/= Humans.

The principle is the same. You're, by all technical means, performing an abortion on a chicken fetus by eating it before it can grow.

Listen to this man.
As much as some people dislike it, we are all animals just because a chicken is a different species dosn't mean it deserves more or less respect than a human fetus.

[Xetsuei]

The principle is the same. You're, by all technical means, performing an abortion on a chicken fetus by eating it before it can grow.

You don't seem to get my point, here I'll say it again.

Chickens =/= Humans.

[=sw=warlord]

You don't seem to get my point, here I'll say it again.

Chickens =/= Humans.
No, you are ignoring mine.
If abortion is so god damned then why is it common practice to abort other species?

[p0lar_bear]

The eggs are unfertilized when they are laid.

At the point you are eating them, they are nothing more than an egg. Not even a fetus.

[Heathen]

Polar IS right.

But I see both your points.

[=sw=warlord]

The eggs are unfertilized when they are laid.

At the point you are eating them, they are nothing more than an egg. Not even a fetus.
Not always, i have cracked eggs open to find a small fetus inside...

[Xetsuei]

The eggs are unfertilized when they are laid.

At the point you are eating them, they are nothing more than an egg. Not even a fetus.

Spot on.

[p0lar_bear]

Not always, i have cracked eggs open to find a small fetus inside...

That would be a fluke, and you should probably tell the dairy company about it.

[Heathen]

Not always, i have cracked eggs open to find a small fetus inside...
suck the stemcelly goodness out.

[Warsaw]

Not always, i have cracked eggs open to find a small fetus inside...

+5 Evil, People around you run away in fear or groan in disgust.

[king_nothing_]

No, you are ignoring mine.
If abortion is so god damned then why is it common practice to abort other species?
Animals eat other animals for sustenance. Welcome to Earth.

[Mass]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_tiller_shooting

I don't really have an opinion on it, I think abortion is wrong though in my humble opinion.

I thought abortion was illegal? If so did this guy still practice it? Ah, I never read the full article. It says he still does abortion at 21 weeks. Geez it's scary what people can do with information. Like putting the license plates of a abortion doctor online and other stuff, its just asking for someone to murder the person.

This guy sure was a big time pro-lifer, huh?

This situation is a grieving facepalm, the anti-abortion push is the most successful terrorist campaign in recent American history.

[rossmum]

Thing is, it's not YOUR body, its the babies body. Just because its inside you doesn't make it any more your own. I find it creepy that some women think that since they are the mother of a child or are a pregnant woman, they have the ultimate say in whether that baby lives or dies.
Let's get something very fucking clear.

It's not a baby until a certain point in its development, and technically it's a parasite until it leaves the womb. Unless you're about to tell me a ball of cells has the mental capacity of a newborn, I see no problem in aborting before it gets too far along its development.

In any case, do you remember anything from before you were born? I sure as hell don't. I don't even remember anything from before I was two years old.

[Heathen]

Animals eat other animals for sustenance. Welcome to Earth.
Sooo...if we eat the babies its okay?

[Xetsuei]

It's not a baby until a certain point in its development, and technically it's a parasite until it leaves the womb. Unless you're about to tell me a ball of cells has the mental capacity of a newborn, I see no problem in aborting before it gets too far along its development.

That's like saying HIV isn't AIDS until a certain point into it's development. While it is true, it is most likely going to lead to AIDS.


Sooo...if we eat the babies its okay?

Keyword(s): other animals

[rossmum]

Yeah, but there's still that window where it's not there yet and so it's not murder by any sensible definition. It's simply preventing it from developing into a baby. Anyone who can suggest early-term abortion is murdering anything needs a reality check.

[Xetsuei]

Yeah, but there's still that window where it's not there yet and so it's not murder by any sensible definition. It's simply preventing it from developing into a baby. Anyone who can suggest early-term abortion is murdering anything needs a reality check.

Yeah, but the fact is you don't know if it's going to be a baby or not, but it most likely will be. It's like saying, "Well we don't know if this HIV is going to become AIDS, so we might as well not treat it."

[Jean-Luc]

That's like saying HIV isn't AIDS until a certain point into it's development. While it is true, it is most likely going to lead to AIDS.
E: Misread it the first time, didn't realize you were comparing the concept of advancement.

A bizzare comparison to make, but I see where you're coming from. I don't agree with you, but I get what you're saying.

[Xetsuei]

So...lemme get this straight. You're comparing the progression of a potentially lethal disease into something more lethal...to a fetus growth in the womb. I am SO not following your logic here.

It's an analogy.

[king_nothing_]

In any case, do you remember anything from before you were born? I sure as hell don't. I don't even remember anything from before I was two years old.
How is that relevant at all?


Sooo...if we eat the babies its okay?
...

[Malloy]

Lol i got bad repped for my opinion on this thread :D

Religion 1up again. Damn that shit needs purging.

[Jean-Luc]

This whole thread reminds me of an old George Carlin joke about abortion.

"If a fetus is a human being, how come the census doesn't count them? If a fetus is a human being, when there's a miscarriage how come they don't have a funeral? If a fetus is a human being, why do people say 'We have two children and one on the way,' instead of saying we have three children? See the really hardcore people will tell you life begins at fertilization when the sperm fertilizes the egg...even after the egg is fertilized, it's still 6 or 7 days before it reaches the uterus and pregnancy begins, and not every egg makes it that far! 80% of a woman's fertilized eggs are rinsed and flushed out of her body once a month during those delightful few days she has. They wind up on sanitary napkins, and yet they are fertilized eggs. So basically what these anti-abortion people are telling us is that any woman who has had more than one period is a serial killer!"

[rossmum]

How is that relevant at all?


...
It's relevant because it means any attempt to justify a ban on abortion because 'oh but it's a tiny human and it has a mind!!!' is flawed. Yes, it's a tiny human (eventually) and yes it most likely does have some limited mental capacity, but until they're born babies are essentially running on autopilot. They don't start learning until they're born and they don't form any memories until they're born.

[sdavis117]

That's like saying HIV isn't AIDS until a certain point into it's development. While it is true, it is most likely going to lead to AIDS.


So if I were to ruin some couples desire to have sex that night, would that be considered murder? I mean it would most likely lead to a baby.

[Xetsuei]

So if I were to ruin some couples desire to have sex that night, would that be considered murder? I mean it would most likely lead to a baby.

There are only about 3 days out of the month where a girl can get pregnant. That and the egg hasn't been fertilized by sperm. So, no. In all honestly, you guys really blow this out of proportion.

[Roostervier]

@Xet

Using your logic, I could say that an egg leads to a fetus.

You probably noticed that that logic leaves some variables up in the air. The egg has to be fertilized before it becomes a fetus, but using your logic, you can say that eggs lead to fetuses. You can also say that fetuses lead to babies (like you said), using your logic. Using normal logic, though, you see that there are steps in between. There is the development of the baby, and the fact that the baby could die while still in the womb (think miscarriage). So while it's true fetuses can lead to babies, you can't deny, by this logic, that eggs can lead to fetuses. If you ignore the steps in between, that means that menstruation is tantamount to abortion.

If you disagree, then rethink your logic.

[Bodzilla]

i'll say it again because i didnt get a response for it.

if you support abstinence then you have no say in the debate about the potential for new life.
because this has killed far more potential children then abortions ever could have.

[TVTyrant]

This just in: Hitler went to heaven.

This is why I don't get Christianity. More loopholes and self-contradictions than the English language.
E:Nope I was wrong. Damn you name mistakings!!!!!

By the way, I never said I believed that either. I think thats a load of shit too, and its one of the main reasons I dont consider myself "christian". I dont believe in Heaven or Hell. I think this is it. Heaven and Hell are, imo, based on what people think of your achievements in life. Hell is when people look down upon you, put both you and your family in shame. People who never sin or whatever go to Heaven, meaning that those who knew them will hold them in esteem. They aren't real, their only terms based on what people think of you.

[Xetsuei]

@Xet

Using your logic, I could say that an egg leads to a fetus.

You probably noticed that that logic leaves some variables up in the air. The egg has to be fertilized before it becomes a fetus, but using your logic, you can say that eggs lead to fetuses. You can also say that fetuses lead to babies (like you said), using your logic. Using normal logic, though, you see that there are steps in between. There is the development of the baby, and the fact that the baby could die while still in the womb (think miscarriage). So while it's true fetuses can lead to babies, you can't deny, by this logic, that eggs can lead to fetuses. If you ignore the steps in between, that means that menstruation is tantamount to abortion.

If you disagree, then rethink your logic.

Once again, you are taking what I say way to far, and I mean way to far. Try and rethink what I'm saying.

[Syuusuke]

Hey, chicken are decent people, leave em alone. =/

[Xetsuei]

Hey, chicken are decent people, leave em alone. =/

No, one of them gave me an expired coupon.

[king_nothing_]

It's relevant because it means any attempt to justify a ban on abortion because 'oh but it's a tiny human and it has a mind!!!' is flawed. Yes, it's a tiny human (eventually) and yes it most likely does have some limited mental capacity, but until they're born babies are essentially running on autopilot. They don't start learning until they're born and they don't form any memories until they're born.
Nobody spoke a single word about memory retention before you did. Seems like you're building strawmen to me. But anyway, memory retention begins so late in development it is completely irrelevant to an abortion debate.

[rossmum]

I was simply bringing it up, I know nobody spoke about it.

[Heathen]

Keyword(s): other animals
Well thats not a good defense.
Animals also eat their young.


And their own feces.

[mech]

Well thats not a good defense.
Animals also eat their young.


And their own feces.

I eat my own feces, wasn't aware there was something wrong with this.

[t3h m00kz]

I murder thousands of potential lives about two times daily.

[Xetsuei]

Well thats not a good defense.
Animals also eat their young.


And their own feces.

Yeah, but we're humans. http://gbxforums.gearboxsoftware.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif


I murder thousands of potential lives about two times daily.

Even if that is a joke, you're still blowing it completely out of proportion.

[t3h m00kz]

Yeah it was intended to be a joke, but there's still a bit of truth behind it.

[Xetsuei]

Yeah it was intended to be a joke, but there's still a bit of truth behind it.

Not really. There's no potential for life without the egg.

[TVTyrant]

Well thats not a good defense.
Animals also eat their young.


And their own feces.
I'd feel bad if I shot a pregnant elk/bear/deer D: Thats why I only hunt before the rut.

[Neuro Guro]

-

[TVTyrant]

I say we give every one in the world a sword, and we play some free for all till the population is down to about a healthy 300 million.

[/2cents]
>8D I took fencing for 6 years.

[Neuro Guro]

-

[Heathen]

Yeah, but we're humans. http://gbxforums.gearboxsoftware.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif
u bes be trolin

[t3h m00kz]

Not really. There's no potential for life without the egg.

Someone made the comparison to chicken eggs a while back, as well

[=sw=warlord]

Not really. There's no potential for life without the egg.
there is always the few species that can reproduce without going through intercourse [cannot remember the name for the life of me] but yes, there is potential for certain species.

[StankBacon]

asexual.

[Xetsuei]

Someone made the comparison to chicken eggs a while back, as well

Not the same comparison


there is always the few species that can reproduce without going through intercourse [cannot remember the name for the life of me] but yes, there is potential for certain species.

I'm talking about humans. :downs:

[Heathen]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/31053883#31053883
fuck I forgot how to embed flash
:lmao:
Tiller the baby killer
HAHAHHAHA
Fox can go fock itself.

[TeeKup]

No, you are ignoring mine.
If abortion is so god damned then why is it common practice to abort other species?

Because they're not sentient, because we rely on them for survival. You can't use chickens as leverage for this debate. They're not exactly the brightest animal out there. We don't consume sentient or even sub-sentient animals so if for some reason a man decided to eat a dolphin egg for whatever reason then you can use that argument.

But really comparing abortion to eating a chicken egg?

E: I'm hungry now...brb making scrambled eggs.

[Heathen]

found it.
9xkD4N7RjE8
:lmao:
Tiller the baby killer
HAHAHHAHA
Fox can go fock itself.
way to roll on that piece of shit

[Jean-Luc]

Epic win above me.

He sounds genuinely pissed :lmao:

[Heathen]

Epic win above me.

He sounds genuinely pissed :lmao:
I just keep listening to it lol

[king_nothing_]

MSNBC is not any better than Fox News. They are both badly biased. Using an MSNBC clip to disparage Fox is pretty laughable.

[rossmum]

Because they're not sentient, because we rely on them for survival. You can't use chickens as leverage for this debate. They're not exactly the brightest animal out there. We don't consume sentient or even sub-sentient animals so if for some reason a man decided to eat a dolphin egg for whatever reason then you can use that argument.

But really comparing abortion to eating a chicken egg?

E: I'm hungry now...brb making scrambled eggs.
Yeah, I'm gonna have to dispute that. Spend enough time around some animals and you'll begin to see that each one has a different personality. No two of our 80-odd alpacas behave or react to things in the same way, and it's not through different treatment or anything; they all get treated exactly the same. The only thing that truly puts us above other species is our opposable thumb. You could have all the best ideas in the world, but you can't build shit if you can't manipulate objects easily.

That said, I have no issue with upholding the natural order of things and sitting quite happily at the top of the food chain. I just don't eat duck, alpaca, or any cattle I've raised.

[Terry]

MSNBC is not any better than Fox News. They are both badly biased. Using an MSNBC clip to disparage Fox is pretty laughable.

Except for the fact that it did a good job?

[Jean-Luc]

Except for the fact that it did a good job?
This. Just because a station is biased doesn't mean they can't be right, or bring up valid points. Fox News can be right as well.

[sdavis117]

MSNBC is not any better than Fox News. They are both badly biased. Using an MSNBC clip to disparage Fox is pretty laughable.

MSNBC admits their bias. Fox does not. Infact Fox has pretty much made "Fair and Balanced" their second logo.

[Roostervier]

I don't get it. Am I supposed to prefer someone who's biased and admits it or someone that's biased and delusional? Either way, they're biased.

[p0lar_bear]

I don't get it. Am I supposed to prefer someone who's biased and admits it or someone that's biased and delusional? Either way, they're biased.

But at least the former is honest about it, and doesn't try to pass it off as fact like Faux does.

[Roostervier]

It's still biased. You can say it makes them better people all you want, but I'd still rather go with an unbiased news source.

[StankBacon]

like?

[Jean-Luc]

biased =/= wrong, at least not always.

[Roostervier]

Let me rephrase: a less biased new source. To be honest, I hear most stuff on the internet. I don't watch the news, but I typically avoid stuff from Fox and MSNBC.

[Heathen]

like?
the internet :haw:

E: HAHA, I actually put that before I read your post frain, I was not insulting you hahahah.

[p0lar_bear]

Meaning more people tend to go into MSNBC to see what their take on the news is, whereas Faux tricks the :downs:people into thinking what they're seeing is 100% factual.

[Heathen]

Thats focked up :haw: