Let's start a proper, civil discussion - take one.

[rossmum]

I figured that since this site has members from one end of the spectrum to the other, it might be interesting to start a series of threads where we can discuss or debate a particular topic without anyone shitting the thread up or going into flaming territory. I know that's going to be hard for some of you, but trust me, it'll feel good.

Mild trolling through sarcasm and what have you is alright so long as it's relevant and it doesn't degenerate into a personal shitfest.

This week's topic? Hunting.

Having watched a lot of videos demonstrating various rifles, accessories, and shooting techniques on Youtube, I've seen just what a shitstorm this topic generally causes and just how extremely divided a lot of the opinions are, ranging from PETA crazies who think every human should be a vegan to rednecks who think they should be able to go out and shoot whatever they damn well please, including various ethnic groups.

What's your take? Personally the only things I hunt are genuine, overpopulated pests like rabbits, or things I intend to eat. In several cases this overlaps. I haven't actually managed to shoot anything yet because the few times I see them they scarper before I can take a shot, but I have the intent to do so and as far as I'm concerned I'll be able to. I don't much like killing things and I believe animals deserve a lot of respect, but at the same time I think the food chain is that way for a reason and I have no problems with things that aren't endangered being eaten (though I have to warn you guys, raising beef cattle isn't for the soppy at heart, because watching them get onto that truck is really heartbreaking).

Yeah, big bad Ross is a complete sook. On with the topic.

[L0d3x]

I have no problem with hunting as long as it's for a decent reason. Hunting just for the kick of killing something...that I don't approve. I actually hunted mice together with my bro when we were like 11, though we used spades for our...mindless killing. Though we had a more noble goal: to cleanse the henhouse of the infestation.

We succeeded. In retrospect I am not proud of this action, I was young and didn't think things through.

[rossmum]

Yeah, doing it just to mount some poor animal's head on the wall or whatever is what I don't like. We have an antelope in that form, but the rest of him was eaten; we have a bearskin rug, but he kinda tried to eat dad so I can also see how that was justified; but going out to Africa or wherever and then just killing lions and shit strikes me as wrong.

We had a mouse on the loose up in Newcastle; one night my housemate and I found him inside a breadbag eating all the bread, we picked the bag up and trapped him in it but neither of us could bring ourselves to kill him... we were still trying to decide what to do when he chewed his way out of the bag and took off across the kitchen floor at a great rate of knots towards the girls' rooms... we found him a week or two later after he blundered into one of their mousetraps :smith:

[RecycleBin]

People hunt hippos for fucks sake. Hunting to me is fine just as long as you are hunting game animals like deer or rabbit.
I went to Texas one time and we went to a store called Cabela's.
Oh the horror........
Take a look at their photo gallery. Every animal you see in it is real.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/community/aboutus/retail-detail.jsp?detailedInformationURL=/cabelas/en/content/community/aboutus/retail/retail_stores/buda/buda.html

You might not be able to see it but there are ground squirls, chimpunks, ground hogs and possums all over the place in their animal gallery in the store.
It's a cool place though.

[Cojafoji]

I find more and more that hunting, as a sport, disgusts me to no end. There is no point in hunting "big game". Now, hunting for sport and food is fine, just as long as the entire body is used. Though I also find that hunting with a rifle, excluding smooth bore muskets, is not a sport, but an exercise in futility. Now hunting with a bow, that's So much better. It's hunting as it should be. It requires much more skill than a hill billy would have.




Will post more later, I'm typing this on an itouch.

[STLRamsFan]

I'm fine with hunting as long as there's a reason for it. I'm not really a fan of killing them and using them for clothing that you don't need (if you actually do need it, I'm fine with it because you have an ethical reason for it). While I understand why people do it for fun, but personally how would you like it if some rabbit fired at you just for the hell of it? Wouldn't be pretty now would it? :rolleyes:

As far as PETA and their passion of wanting to make us all vegans, here's what I have a problem with: Why are you criticizing us while you have animals such as the tiger who'll rip apart their food? Don't even want to think about how painful that must be.. They can argue all they want about how we have different sources of food and how some places treat the animals, but what are you going to tell that tiger about ripping apart his good buddy Mr. Hippo? "Here tiger! Eat this yummy carrot instead of that disgusting hippo! It's wrong!". More like the tiger will end up having a double serving for his meal. :rolleyes:

[sdavis117]

There's a homeless shelter around where I live that will take deer that you kill hunting and use it for food to feed the homeless, so I was thinking of taking up bow hunting to help them, but other then that, I really don't have any desire to hunt.

As most people have said in this thread, I don't really support hunting JUST for fun.

[rossmum]

As far as PETA and their passion of wanting to make us all vegans, here's what I have a problem with: Why are you criticizing us while you have animals such as the tiger who'll rip apart their food? Don't even want to think about how painful that must be.. They can argue all they want about how we have different sources of food and how some places treat the animals, but what are you going to tell that tiger about ripping apart his good buddy Mr. Hippo? "Here tiger! Eat this yummy carrot instead of that disgusting hippo! It's wrong!". More like the tiger will end up having a double serving for his meal. :rolleyes:
Yeah. I mean, sure there are some exceptions, but as a general rule humans are the most... well, humane predators. I'd rather cop a bullet or get zapped and die fairly painlessly in seconds than be strangled, asphyxiated, or just shredded alive.

That's the other thing - if you're going to go hunting, at least make sure you know what you're doing.

[Limited]

My view of hunting is its only okay, if you are definitely going to eat it. Secondly it has to be humane. You shoot it, it dies instantly. None of this crap where a dog goes to get it, and probably chokes it to death. It has to be killed instantly and as painless as possible.

A friend of mine used to live in the jungle in Argentina (not like rambo style but in a village within it) he had to kill using bow and arrow, slingshot to survive. Thats human nature and the cycle of life. So I agree with that.

Fishing I get annoyed when they dont bother to eat the catch, obviously if its too small then yes you have to legally throw it back. But fishing as a sport, pffft.

[=sw=warlord]

Hunting for the sake of hunting, i do not feel is right i see poachers who go to africa just to shoot animals in the same light as someone going to your home and shooting your pet dog.
sounds strange i know but if you are hunting to survive just as for food then i think it is justifiable but i still do not feel right about killing.
How ever, if you killed an insect or something along those lines i would not be too bothered, i regulary kill moths and other such insects who decide to fly into my just because the computer screen is liting my face up at 2:30 am.
On the subject of Peta, they seriously need to rethink their logic, by their logic we should invent some machine that can be injected into our system that would nurish us instaly instead of eating at all, vegtables are a form of life, fruit are the result of vegtable reproduction im not going into detail because im sure a few people will end up coming with inuendos which are not needed in this thread.

[Roostervier]

I don't care if people hunt, but I don't do it. When I get my hands on a gun I usually plink shit with somebody.

[TVTyrant]

Anyone who eats beef or pork should go hunting once in their lives. Not to kill something, but just to experience it. I've killed a buck with a bow before, and a bull elk with my .30-06, and its an amazing adventure. There i s a spirit to just hiking around, trying to be all sneaky, in the oregon fir forests, that just breathes to you. The smell of November pine, following the tracks, Its simply amazing.
Although I do agree that killing for its own sake is wrong. I think killing most predators is wrong. I could never shoot a bear. I would never shoot a coyote even without a reason (maybe I had chickens or something). Killing the natural predators off is fucking disgusting.
ANd African hunting is just stupid for the most part. The only reason I'd shoot a hipo or rhino would be for the village protection program, where they mark animals that have become dangerous (injured and thus crazed) and let big buck hunters shoot them. They carve off the head for the hunter, debone and gut the animal, and give all the meat to the villagers, so they can boil it and use it in stews. Its a cool program if you ask me.
And bow hunting does take alot of work, but I would say that. in my experience, the hillbillies ARE the ones who do it most of the time. Their the only ones hardcore enough to take all that time to practice and to be any good with it. Even the American Indians I know who hunt on their reservations use guns. Hell, their the most unsporting of all of them, because they'll use fucking automatic weapons for god's sake (my uncle has a buddy who he hunts with on Warm Springs Indian Reservation in Oregon, and the guy uses a fucking CAR-15 for deer hunting).

[neuro]

hunting revolves around taking life which isn't yours.

all life is sacred, and nobody has the right to take any life.
if you were living in the forrest, and living of nature, then by all means, hunt. but respect that which you kill.

[LlamaMaster]

My view on death in general: What is dead, is dead, is dead. Emotion is irrelevant when directed at something which can't respond to it. This includes people, animals, or anything else. The problem lies in the external effects of that person's/animal's death. Say there was some random homeless guy under a bridge, and that guy has no friends or anything dependent on him. If somebody killed that guy, and the media made a shitfest out of it, it would be a "tragedy." However, anybody who mourned over this random hobo would be doing it out of morals or societies beliefs. The dude is dead, and he doesn't care. At that point you are feeling sorry for an inanimate sack of elements. It doesn't matter if he had dreams, because once he is dead he won't have to worry about his loss...because he has no mind. That doesn't mean that you should kill random hobos for the sake of society, it just means that society has an irrational emotional connection with things. The same goes for suicides, what is dead is dead, and making a big deal out of it won't solve anything.

Human/animal death is okay as long as there are no adverse effects, and the person/animal wasn't tortured. So kill any animal you want, but just make sure you do it quickly and painlessly, without causing a direct problem with somebody else, without endangering the species, and without leaving dependent offspring (which would die slowly and painfully).

Of course, if animals have a level of consciousness and ambition anything similar to humans, you shouldn't kill them unless you have to. They certainly won't care when they are dead, but they would deserve to live.

Now rip apart my post, take it out of context, and call me a horrible immoral person...

[L0d3x]

hunting revolves around taking life which isn't yours.

all life is sacred, and nobody has the right to take any life.
if you were living in the forrest, and living of nature, then by all means, hunt. but respect that which you kill.

So does that make you a vegetarian? No flame intended, btw.

[nooBBooze]

Tactically sneaking around in the woods is always nice but I prefer more peaceful alternatives like Airsoft or guerillia growing.

[RecycleBin]

Tactically sneaking around in the woods is always nice but I prefer more peaceful alternatives like Airsoft or guerillia growing.

Gorilla growing?
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/wallpaper/img/2008/jan08-08-1280.jpg


Hunting is fine as long as you don't overdue it.

[rossmum]

but respect that which you kill.
Definitely. As far as I'm concerned, just because other animals lack the ability to directly communicate with humans or the opposable thumb, it doesn't mean they're inherently 'dumb' or just mindless automatons, which is what a lot of people seem to assume. If you spend enough time around them, you'll see that they all have their own quirks in exactly the same way that humans have different personalities. They learn, they teach each other, and they can be trained to do things; quite plainly, there's a functioning, thinking brain in there.


Tactically sneaking around in the woods is always nice but I prefer more peaceful alternatives like Airsoft or guerillia growing.
Not to mention it's infinitely more challenging when your quarry is not only as nimble as you, but also able to shoot back.

[Ifafudafi]

As for the taking a life argument, plants are alive. Microscopic organisms you kill with every step are alive. The human race isn't going to be able to do much without killing.

It's hard for me to take sides in this; I feel for the little critters, and don't want to see them suffer at the whim of some greasy, unshaven redneck. But on the other hand, the hunt is a long-standing pastime of not just humans, but many, many predators; whether our ability to "respect our prey" is an indication of our superiority or merely a misguided notion born from our own odd attractions to animals is not for me (or anyone else, really) to judge.

It seems that as long as an organism doesn't have a central nervous system (plants, bacteria, etc.), we're fine with stomping it into the ground; if people could just realize that we're always killin' shit, and that's not going to change, maybe this wouldn't be such an issue.

[p0lar_bear]

I'm a city slicker, so I have no reason to hunt. I get my meat from the store and don't fancy the idea of killing things to get my jollies.

[Mr Buckshot]

I don't go hunting but I don't have a problem with it as long as it's properly controlled and no one's targeting endangered animals. Well I guess I have gone hunting...in this game called The Oregon Trail.

[Chainsy]

I shoot cans.
Tied to small kittens.
Tied to a rope.
Tied to an old ford going 15 mph.

[Heathen]

Hunting is boring and I dont do it.
But I have no beef with it.
I say go for it.

[nooBBooze]

But on the other hand, the hunt is a long-standing pastime of not just humans, but many, many predators
Wrong. It is necessity for the latter. There's a difference.


if people could just realize that we're always killin' shit, and that's not going to change,
That's right. But we can't exactly empathize with such lower life forms whereas we grew accustomed to interpreting the behaviour of mammals and especially domesticated animals to a degree where we are can safely assume that they have a mental life that pretty much resembles our own. It's just not the same.

On a rather unrelated note, it is said that pigs are not only quite intelligent but that they could even outsmart [i.e. be more usefull than] dogs. What made us domesticate dogs as tools and pigs as fatstock is the fact that there's just more meat on a pig than on a dog.

Btw I still enjoy my piggy concentration camp steaks.
It's delicious though ethically dubious.

[paladin]

I shot a Fox on Saturday in full stride at 60 yards first shot. I was pretty excited.

[ExAm]

I have no beefThat's because you suck at hunting :downs:

Anyhow, I'd hunt if I were going to eat what i kill. Killing just for sport just doesn't jive with the way I think. I have an exception for when an area is infested with a certain pestilent animal. I have never gone hunting before, though I'd like to try it sometime. I like the idea of trying it with a bow.

[ultama121]

Like others here, I don't exactly like the idea of killing for the sport of it. I have no problem with hunting for food or any other reason, but hunting just for sport doesn't really sound fun to me. Meh.

[/duplicatepost]

[Heathen]

Like others here, I don't exactly like the idea of killing for the sport of it. I have no problem with hunting for food or any other reason, but hunting just for sport doesn't really sound fun to me. Meh.

[/duplicatepost]
Actually, although I am against killing for sport, most of these places do EAT what is killed. There isn't a stack of dead birds in a dumpster >.>

[Mass]

The elimination of natural predators in the American Midwest has caused an exponentially expanding deer population, which is rapidly accelerating deforestation East of the Mississippi.

If we don't hunt the ecosystem will destroy itself due to the imbalances we already created. Alien species also infect the woods and the deer don't eat them, allowing the foreign plants to destroy the forest.

Odd scenario, but killing for nature is acceptable. Killing for sport, too. Not for kicks though.

[FreedomFighter7]

I see what you mean mass. I live in a mountainous region, and these beetles have killed off all of the pine trees in the city, and the government actually had to hire sharpshooters to kill off the deer that were making a home inside the city. You could go for a walk and come across a bunch of deer sitting on someone's front lawn eating grass. They're not meant for the city, their knees had grown in mass due to the walking on hard concrete and asphalt.


I have no opinion on the subject.

[n00b1n8R]

I'm a city slicker, so I have no reason to hunt. I get my meat from the store and don't fancy the idea of killing things to get my jollies.
^

I can see the justification in hunting for your own food, but it's when it's for no reason other than killing the animal and showing it off that I take offence. I also agree that hunting when there are serious imbalance's in an ecosystem, though this sort of hunting needs to be well regulated so that the balance doesn't tipped to the other end of the scale.

Personally, I just don't think i'd be able to shoot an animal, hell I have a hard time spraying spiders in the shower for christs sake.
If it's self defence, I'm fine with it but if they're just standing there doing their thing..