[WIP] Subdermis

[Cagerrin]

Posting it here rather than the CE section because I don't have the ability to get it ingame(as you may be able to deduce from one of the images), so it's just going to be a model for the forseeable future.

Pretty much the first design that I've drawn up before modelling(though it was a very horrible drawing)

Theme is supposed to be the guts of a beam tower, exposed by High Charity's crash into the Ark. I haven't gotten around to modelling fallen soil(and a chunk of High Charity in the base of one of the circular areas) yet, but I'm working on it. Doing the structures first seems to work better.

(old)1.http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_viewport_topdown.jpg
(old)2.http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_base_not_dark.jpg
(old)wirehttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/base_not_dark_wire.jpg
3.http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_beam_exit.jpg
wirehttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/beam_exit_wire.jpg
(old)4.http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_faux_control_1.jpg
(old)wirehttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/faux_control_1_wire.jpg
(old)4.http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_minihall_1.jpg
(old)wirehttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/minihall_1_wire.jpg
(old)5.http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_not_a_circle.jpg
(old)wirehttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/not_a_circle_wire.jpg
6.http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_center_glass_blocker.jpg
wirehttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/center_glass_blocker_wire.jpg
7.http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_center_hall_open_end.jpg
wirehttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/center_hall_open_end_wire.jpg
8.http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_glass_blocker_upper.jpg
wirehttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/glass_blocker_upper_wire.jpg
9.http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_tele_and_stompers.jpg
wirehttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/tele_and_stompers_wire.jpg
(old)10.http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_coll_supports.jpg
(old)wirehttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/coll_supports_wire.jpg
11.http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_capacitor_room.jpg
wirehttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/capacitor_room_wire.jpg
12.http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_capacitor_room_from_base.jpg
wirehttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/capacitor_room_from_base_wire.jpg
closeuphttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_outer_ramp_generic_door.jpg
13.http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_glass_floor_base.jpg
14http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_floor_arrows.jpg
15.http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_center_glass_new_floor.jpg
wirehttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/center_glass_new_floor_wire.jpg
16.http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_glass_blocker_upper_connection.jpg
wirehttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/glass_blocker_upper_connection_wire.jpg
17.http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_ledge_right_side.jpg
wirehttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/ledge_right_side_wire.jpg
18.http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_new_ceiling.jpg
wirehttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/new_ceiling_wire.jpg
19http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_beam_receiver.jpg
wirehttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/beam_receiver_wire.jpg
20http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_receiver_glass.jpg
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/receiver_glass_wire.jpg
21http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_chasm_overlook.jpg
wirehttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/chasm_overlook_wire.jpg
22http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_chasm_underside.jpg
wirehttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/chasm_underside_wire.jpg

Tri count in first image is inaccurate since I removing the ceilings for it.

Teleporter entrances in #9 are wrong in render, correct in wire.

Supports in # 10 are from Colossus, I believe. I've got a file sitting around full of supports and pillars and such from various maps.


Current tri count is 22121 24760.

[BobtheGreatII]

That looks really good actually... but I'm afraid you're going to run in to a problem. Looks like you didn't really model in triangles, or you used optimize. In which case you have a 50/50 chance of Tool freaking out and giving you a lot of open edge errors. But I guess we'll see. Again, looks good.

[Cagerrin]

I don't have the ability to get it ingame

I'm not really used to modelling in tris; due to the way Sketchup works it's considerably easier to model faces edge by edge.

If good .obj exporters actually existed I could get it into Gmax, the only exporter I could find tends to rape the model quite thoroughly when I use it.

[Sever]

Here's my crit:

Put more ribbings on the beam accelerator in picture 3 - they're just spaced too far apart.

It appears that you're pulling Forerunner architectural styles from a bit too many different areas - you have control room aspects, bridge blockers, glass displays, beam accelerators, and supports and columns from all across the board - tighten it up a bit more. Each part looks pretty good, or great on its own, but all of them together breaks down the function of the map. Decide what you're going for, then remove the parts that don't fit - don't trash them, though. Use them as starting points for your next few maps.

My one and only overall issue with the map's potential is that it has zero vertical flow, at least as far as I can discern from the given images. The lofty ceilings are great, but there isn't any player interaction between different heights. Depending on how you want the map to play, however, this might not be a problem.

Overall, you're showing superb progress, but I feel that you still have much to learn. Keep working at it and you'll make spectacular maps.

[Cagerrin]

Here's my crit:

Put more ribbings on the beam accelerator in picture 3 - they're just spaced too far apart.

It appears that you're pulling Forerunner architectural styles from a bit too many different areas - you have control room aspects, bridge blockers, glass displays, beam accelerators, and supports and columns from all across the board - tighten it up a bit more. Each part looks pretty good, or great on its own, but all of them together breaks down the function of the map. Decide what you're going for, then remove the parts that don't fit - don't trash them, though. Use them as starting points for your next few maps.

My one and only overall issue with the map's potential is that it has zero vertical flow, at least as far as I can discern from the given images. The lofty ceilings are great, but there isn't any player interaction between different heights. Depending on how you want the map to play, however, this might not be a problem.

Overall, you're showing superb progress, but I feel that you still have much to learn. Keep working at it and you'll make spectacular maps.
Cut the spacing in half or thereabouts?

I know, I know. I've just got too many bits and pieces of stuff modelled for various things, and I cross-pollinate too much. Keeping the central hall, though. Can probably remove the control-room parts, set up hallways parallel to the center(with upward ramps?), and kill a number of the supports(Colossus ones don't make all that much sense in retrospect).

There's a bit, the bases are kinda dual-leveled. Kinda. I can model in 3d, but I'm not all that good at thinking in it gameplay-wise(as anyone who's played Prisoner with me might have noticed:(). The end room needs to feel less empty though, so I should be able to work with that.

[Malloy]

Um only way I see this gettin ingame is from an export to .obj then import to max and be done from there.

[Sel]

Wait, you made this in sketchup lol?

[Disaster]

oh damn lol

[Rob Oplawar]

Project Shockwave needs you, Cagerrin.

[SGWraith]

I'm not really used to modelling in tris; due to the way Sketchup works it's considerably easier to model faces edge by edge.

If good .obj exporters actually existed I could get it into Gmax, the only exporter I could find tends to rape the model quite thoroughly when I use it.

I've looked for a good.obj exporter and none of them work for me, mostly creating 1kb files that obviously had no geometry in them. However, since Gmax can natively import (but not export) .3DS files perhaps you could still find a decent exporter to get your stuff out of Sketchup and into Gmax.

Though if tool chokes on an error you would still have to use Gmax to fix it. Tool will make a wrl file in the halo ce root directory which you can import using the extra feature on Chimp's JMS exporter. I can't get Chimp's plugin to work on my machine so I can't tell you more about how to use it, though thankfully TheGhost's plugin still works after Gmax pretends to lockup for a few minutes. :fail:

[Gwunty]

Wait, you made this in sketchup lol?
Even if you get it in max or gmax it wont ever get ingame.

[Malloy]

^ Lolwut of course it will... All he has to do is correct his geometry manually.

[SGWraith]

Had some time so I looked around the net for a 3ds exporter but couldn't find one. On the other hand I found out that if you export it as a google earth model (*.kmz) you can get a Collada file (*.dae) out of it since a kmz file is really just a zip. You can convert the Collada file in Blender into a *.3ds file which you can natively import into Gmax.

Not as simple as a direct export from Sketchup but if you want to give it a go the details for how to do it are here in this post: http://www.jpct.net/forum2/index.php?topic=1086.15 and in this thread: http://forums.devshed.com/game-development-141/converting-sketchup-models-to-3dst-519710.html

The thread has an alternative method and there is also the opensource Meshlab tool: http://meshlab.sourceforge.net/

[Cagerrin]

I've looked for a good.obj exporter and none of them work for me, mostly creating 1kb files that obviously had no geometry in them. However, since Gmax can natively import (but not export) .3DS files perhaps you could still find a decent exporter to get your stuff out of Sketchup and into Gmax.

Though if tool chokes on an error you would still have to use Gmax to fix it. Tool will make a wrl file in the halo ce root directory which you can import using the extra feature on Chimp's JMS exporter. I can't get Chimp's plugin to work on my machine so I can't tell you more about how to use it, though thankfully TheGhost's plugin still works after Gmax pretends to lockup for a few minutes. :fail:
Sketchup Pro apparently exports .3ds files, I'm testing it currently.

And yeah, I know about .wrl files. I can import them and all that, but I'm not at all proficient enough with Gmax to fix the model with them. I'm working on it.


Project Shockwave needs you, Cagerrin.
I'd help, but my model files would be useless to you(well, if what I'm currently doing works, maybe not).

^ Lolwut of course it will... All he has to do is correct his geometry manually.
Which may happen at some point in the future; I'm learning how to use Gmax bit by bit.

[Sever]

Good to see we're on the same pages.

The central hallway is, simply put, awesome. Be sure that no matter how you rearrange the map, don't put a ceiling on it and place a semi-bright white fog plane looming above, as to give the map a grand sense of scale. Also, add more heavily-vertical unplayable detail up there too.

[Cagerrin]

A good deal of the way through a better side room design, figured it was enough difference to update. Oh, who the heck am I kidding, more than enough.

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_capacitor_room.jpg
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/capacitor_room_wire.jpg

Angles are different due to the fact that I can't for the life of me figure out how to do wireframe renders in Kerkythea, so wires are just Sketchup viewport screens.

Tri count is down considerably, to 13387.

[Cagerrin]

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_capacitor_room_from_base.jpg
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/capacitor_room_from_base_wire.jpg
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_outer_ramp_generic_door.jpg
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_glass_floor_base.jpg

On a side note, managed to get a test BSP from Sketchup into Halo with no problems whatsoever.

[Malloy]

Lolwut pics or gtfo :P

[Cagerrin]

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/test2_model.jpg
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/test2_horrible.jpg
I fucked up the spawns(and the bitmap, durr), which is why there's no biped on the map. =/

Also Subdermis stuff.

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_floor_arrows.jpg

Current tri count is 17530.

[BobtheGreatII]

Ha ha, that's actually kind of cool.

[klange]

If I can get a BSP from my own god damn map modeling app, I'm sure it can't be too terribly difficult to get one from Sketchup.

(Though, then again, my app was specifically built to make Halo maps, and I could never get radiosity to run on my old laptop... which itself could render without lightmaps)

Meh, either way, this map is looking good. Nice job so far.

[Cagerrin]

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_center_glass_new_floor.jpg
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/center_glass_new_floor_wire.jpg
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_glass_blocker_upper_connection.jpg
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/glass_blocker_upper_connection_wire.jpg
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_ledge_right_side.jpg
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/ledge_right_side_wire.jpg

Not really sure yet whether or not the upper end of the glass blocker will be freestanding, or connected as it is in the render.

Ledge might need a ramp, I'm not sure.

Tri count is 17568.

[ThePlague]

You really need to learn Max so you can recreate this and put it into Halo.

[Cagerrin]

I think I've got a layout that might suck less than I thought.

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_overhead_fixed.png

Pink/yellow lines would be one-way doors, yellow being the blocking direction. Teleporters would be two way. Red boxes are bases. Purple lines are ramps, with the angle indicating up/down. Some smaller pieces of floor are missing, due to me being lazy when copying. Orange is where the floors connect

E: Also, 19111 tris.

E2: Hurgh, just realized that's the wrong way to do an overhead layout. Fixed.

[Malloy]

Neato.

[Cagerrin]

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_new_ceiling.jpg
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/new_ceiling_wire.jpg

Was going to render a shot of the new beam receiver, but every last light in the model decided to all mess up at the same time, so not for a while.

E: Scratch that, fixed it sort of. Really ought to figure out a way to render interiors that doesn't suck.

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_beam_receiver.jpg
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/beam_receiver_wire.jpg

Still need to integrate the prongs with the ceiling so they don't look tacked on.

Also I figured out how to unwrap models in Sketchup(sort of), so I might attempt to texture some of it today or tomorrow.

[BobtheGreatII]

Well most maps you don't really unwrap to texture. You can just select the faces and apply the textures. This is looking good.

[Sever]

Still need to integrate the prongs with the ceiling so they don't look tacked on.Try putting some unbreakable glass in parts of the ceiling around the central node, and show the prongs continuing upwards.

[Cagerrin]

Try putting some unbreakable glass in parts of the ceiling around the central node, and show the prongs continuing upwards.
Heh, I leave for a half hour for vespers, and I had practically that same idea pop into my head, minus the glass. Will do.

E: This any good?

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_receiver_glass.jpg
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/receiver_glass_wire.jpg

[Sever]

E: This any good?

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_receiver_glass.jpg
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/receiver_glass_wire.jpgYeah, that's perfect. I love how it's your own style - still Forerunner, but more original than anyone else's I've seen. I still have yet to see whether or not you get gameplay, but that's a whole different story. Hell, it might not even be necessary if you can find someone to work with who does all of the basic layout while you go back and do the detailing.

[Limited]

Attempting to make a functional map in Sketchup? Interesting, you have skill in Sketchup, problem is the actual polys it makes are awful.

Keep up the work, if your trial ran out and you needed the model exported hit me up, I have pro version.

[Cagerrin]

Yeah, that's perfect. I love how it's your own style - still Forerunner, but more original than anyone else's I've seen. I still have yet to see whether or not you get gameplay, but that's a whole different story. Hell, it might not even be necessary if you can find someone to work with who does all of the basic layout while you go back and do the detailing.
Bah, it's not very original. Practically everything I do with it has been done already by Bungie. It's funny how much better Halo's BSPs look when they're free of ugly tiled textures, and how much they helped me understand the architecture.

Attempting to make a functional map in Sketchup? Interesting, you have skill in Sketchup, problem is the actual polys it makes are awful.

Keep up the work, if your trial ran out and you needed the model exported hit me up, I have pro version.
I tried exporting 3ds files back when my trial still worked, but it never really worked. Had much better results with a dxf exporter someone whipped up that triangulated the mesh when it exported it, which is how I got that test map to work a few pages ago. Only problem is that anything too complex(i.e. Subdermis) tends to end up with fifty or a hundred open edges, and I cannot for the life of me make any sense of max/gmax so as to fix them.

----

New renders later since I realized that the chasm/catwalk thing inside the Ark wall might work better than the current corridor I have going behind the end of the map opposite the beam emmiter/receiver.

[Gwunty]

ATTN:
I told you so, nanananana, i was right and u were wrong. :realsmug:

[Cagerrin]

Har-dee-har-har. I got something ingame from Sketchup, so it is at least possible, even if this particular map will take some fixing.

[klange]

Har-dee-har-har. I got something ingame from Sketchup, so it is at least possible, even if this particular map will take some fixing.

And I've gotten a hand made JMS (exported by custom generator from my custom app, UHMM, three years ago) in-game. Definitely doable.



Love the map so far.

[Siliconmaster]

I love the architecture. As someone who has been recently agonizing over forerunner styles, I can say that yours looks beautiful. Would be awesome as a CE map, even if for nothing else than to run around and appreciate the modeling. :P

[Horns]

Sketchup pro can export .3ds files. If you need any help add "blackcrypt" to xfire. He is the person who made BC Raceway and He made it in sketchup.

[Cagerrin]

I love the architecture. As someone who has been recently agonizing over forerunner styles, I can say that yours looks beautiful. Would be awesome as a CE map, even if for nothing else than to run around and appreciate the modeling. :P
Well, what can I say? I started playing Halo originally because visually it was so... interesting. It's just got this scale to it that I hadn't seen in a game before, and once I realized that there was a method to the madnessimpressiveness I knew I had to try my hand at it. I can only hope my texturing does it justice once I get that far.

Sketchup pro can export .3ds files. If you need any help add "blackcrypt" to xfire. He is the person who made BC Raceway and He made it in sketchup.
Exporting isn't the problem, I've gotten a test map into Halo without problems, it's just that anything fairly complex tends to have open edges for whatever reason. But thank you.

[Limited]

Problem is Sketchup is a prototyping tool and therefore doesn't care about the quality of the polys. You will always have that problem.

[Cagerrin]

Well, got the Ark chasm area integrated, and in the process realized that the map now looks like the Silent Cartographer facility with less floors.

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_chasm_overlook.jpg
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/chasm_overlook_wire.jpg
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_chasm_underside.jpg
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/chasm_underside_wire.jpg

Basically, this replaces the crappy hallway that used to go behind the pillars on the open end of the map.


E:
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TalonX/randomstuff/WIP/subdermis_left_tele_senderceiver.jpg

It just struck me this morning that there's a massive difference between H1's teleporter effects in the campaign and the multiplayer effects. So I set about finding a way to combine the two. Yellow area would be teleporter effects as seen in the campaign, because the multiplayer ones look silly.

[Higuy]

Looks nice, I did my own version of that part of the ark level before, but I like your's more. The teleporter is ok looking, but I dont see how it would really work. you tele inside of it and can walk out?

[Cagerrin]

Pretty much, the teleporter ring effect wouldn't be solid, it just looks like it now because that model used to be a specimen/cryo tube for something else.