Cerebrum Halo CE Game Tracking

[klange]

STATUS REPORT: Updates on hold. Project is not canceled, but the main component is heavily dependent on Kornman's free time (and he doesn't have much).


Cerebrum and Synapse


Cerebrum-Synapse is an in-development system for tracking game stats. It was originally started for H2V, but for obvious reasons we stopped. So we're starting it back up again, almost two years later, for CE.

Cerebrum takes data from specially equipped servers running a system called Synapse (an extension to Open Sauce) which generates an XML dump of all sorts of useful game information and uploads it to the Cerebrum server. The server then processes the data and puts it in a MySQL database. From there, the Cerebrum web interface provides players with complete details on their games, including kills, flag caps, time in the hill, and even player-vs-player details (who killed who).

There is much to do to get Cerebrum-Synapse up and running. The first step is to get our game recording system into Open Sauce for dedicated servers. Once that is in place, the real development of Cerebrum can begin. Cerebrum will store massive amounts of data in a MySQL database here at Modacity.



Features
- Game summaries: including all the regular stats listed in the Postgame Carnage Report as well as Player vs. Player. Our tracking system will be able to provide clear information on who killed who, what weapon they used, and where both players were. It even supports custom weapons.
- Player profiles: Your profile is attached to the MD5 hash of your pseudo-CD-key, which ensures integrity of profiles. You'll be able to see all the Synapse-monitored games you've played in, keep track of your total kills, and even see who you've killed the most.
- Dynamic signatures: Like with the many third-party extensions to the H2/H3 stat systems, we'll provide dynamic signature images with all sorts of goodies, like your total kills, k/d ratio, player color, etc.
- Various stats: We'll provide statistics on specific maps - who's the best on Coldsnap? what's the most popular game type on Bloodgulch these days? what maps are played the most? - to keep you in the loop.
- Global banlist: Synapse will provide servers with a global list of banned players. The ban-list is mandatory for server administrators, but is highly exclusive to those players deemed unfit for the game.
- Medals and Achievements: Bring Halo CE into the same action as Halo 2 and 3 with medals (per-game) and achievements (overall).
- Ranking System: What's the point of all this tracking if we can't put it to good use with a global ranking and rating system? Accumulate points for kills and caps and move up the ranks to General.
- Killzone Heatmaps: What's the most popular spot to get your ass handed to you on Sidewinder? Find out with our dynamically generate heatmaps.



FAQs
Can I see what this thing looks like?
My original implementation/prototype of Cerebrum is available here (http://cerebrum.ogunderground.com). jcap may wish to post his for reference, as we'll be starting with it (it just looks better). The new prototype is available here (http://cce.phpwnage.com). Update: The early gameviewer prototype (http://cce.phpwnage.com/gamelist.php) is also up, though it lacks the features of the completed system.

What can I do to help right now?
Start taking thumbnail shots of your favorite maps. We can't live with the ones on HaloMaps, after all.

We'll also need pretty graphics for Cerebrum, so if you're good with that sort of thing, feel free to contribute. Specifically, we'll be looking for weapon side views like what's shown for H3, medal graphics, achievement graphics, etc.

If you're good with web design or development, or you have access to rec0's source code, you can join the development team and make Cerebrum or Synapse a reality now.

Will Cerebrum have X Feature?
See above. If it's not listed, maybe we don't know about it. I haven't started making a list of things we won't do.

Can I use Synapse with my server?
When the system is up and running, anyone will be able to use Synapse on their server, but you will have to register the server and some credentials with Cerebrum. We will track what servers are submitting what data and games may be revoked if tampering is found.

So when can we get it?
When it's done. At this point, it's barely even started. We'll keep you updated. Heck, if you're a regular here at Modacity you may get a chance to beta the system. Beta testing will be done on public dedicated servers.

How will I link my CD key to my personal account?
When Cerebrum-Synapse is read to go, you will link your CD key (through our extensively researched [not yet finished] CD Key hashing system) to your Modacity account. Don't have a Modacity account? Registered today!

What are Medals? I've never played H2 or H3!
You should play them... just don't play H2V... horrible, horrible game... Anyway, medals are awards for special kills you get in game. The most basic medals are for double kills and killing sprees. Other medals can be awarded for sprees with certain weapons, sticking your opponent, and more. Some of these more advanced medals will require Open Sauce, but the simplest ones will be done through any Synapse-equipped server extension.

Will there be a ranking system like in Halo 2 and Halo 3?
We will have a ranking and rating system in Cerebrum, but it will not follow the Halo 2/Halo 3 model. Our ranking system will be like that used in Call of Duty: kills and flag captures on any server will earn you points. At predetermined point levels, you will advance to the next rank.

Will I be able to track my entire clan as a single group?
Clans and league teams can be tracked with the Clan Management page, but this is a "Stage 2" addition.

Is the global banlist mandatory to use Synapse?
Yes. The banlist consists of known, proven and tried* botters and excessive TKers. Allowing them in games forces us to void those games because their presence destroys scoring and can have a massive effect on gameplay. Voiding these games destroys the experience for legitimate players by ruining any game stats they had accumulated before the banned player joined.
* Players on the global banlist are the worst of the worst, proven multiple times to be botters and presented to us on open channels with clear proof. All players on the list will have a chance for an appeal in an open forum.

Oh no, I'm really good at CE, you're going to ban me because of my awesome stats!
Never! The banning process does not look at statistics except when banning TKers (because our stats dumps clearly show how betrayals play out). Rest assured, you won't be banned for having exceptional stats: only real, verifiable proof of botting will get you the hammer.

I see you've started using a logo, is that the final logo for the project?
Yes sir. Well... sort of. It's the basic shape. We're exploring further options in its presentation, including (among other things) a change in color scheme.

Who are you guys?
The primary developers of the system are myself, jcap and kornman00. I started mapping for back in '06, but my true calling is programming. I'm not too sure what jcap does, but he's an administrator here at Modacity and has definitely helped make this project a reality, even if it's not done yet. And kornman00 is god. That should do for biographies.

This is awesome, I should +rep you and Jcap!
Yes, yes, you should.

I'm from bungie, we're stealing your idea to get more people to buy an old, unsupported game for ~$9.
I highly doubt that. Honestly, if someone from bungie is reading this, they should email me. I can be a very sociable person when properly confronted, and I don't make any demands concerning futuristic body coverings and bullet deflectors.

Where else has this been posted so I can bump it for you?
HaloMaps (http://forum.halomaps.org/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=27020)
ModNexus (http://halomods.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=82191)
Open Carnage (http://www.opencarnage.com/index.php?showtopic=18967)
Rework3d (http://rework3d.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=82056)
You can also follow us on Twitter (http://twitter.com/cerebrumsynapse).



Development Phases
There are three key phases in the development of Cerebrum-Synapse. We are already well into "Phase 0", which is our designation for the minimal-feature test system that is being used to record statistics on the HCEL tournament games. Phase 1 is the primary release, and Phase 2 will bring various extra low-priority features we thought would be cool.

Phase 0:
__ - ✔ Basic statistics tracking
__ - ✔ Basic game dumper
__ - ✔ Manual game uploads
Phase 1:
__ - Complete kill/death tracking
__ - ✔ Automatic, X secure uploads
____ Public Beta Test
__ - Medals and achievements
__ - Ban list
Phase 2:
__ - Rankings and ratings system finalized
__ - Scheduled delivery of Medal Overlay and live statistics
__ - Minor features by request

[jcap]

For anyone who feels like jumping on board with this, I still have our secret development forum which has been deserted for the past year with all its threads and posts. Ideas and concepts were in there.

I also still have the entire frontend for Cerebrum, thankfully. It's basically a more polished version of his prototype (it's based off of an old version of mine).

The project had to be abandoned mostly because of H2V. The game was broken and it couldn't dump stats correctly, and the game just slipped through the cracks because of the dropped support after a mere 11 months.

At the VERY LEAST, I would like to see just postgame data and possibly a service record/cumulative player stats.

[klange]

Yours looked so much nicer because I never put any effort into the CSS on mine... >_<
Move the board over to be a subforum of CE and we can get this started.

e: Or you can sticky this. That works, too. Yay me, I have a sticky!

[Malloy]

Uh this'd be cool if you could add a group of profiles to a list that you could then monitor from then on.

[klange]

Uh this'd be cool if you could add a group of profiles to a list that you could then monitor from then on.
Like a friends list? It's all easily possible. We just need to lay the framework first. We can do a lot of fun things afterwords.
e: If you mean your own profiles, they'll be done by CD key, so all of your profiles will appear together, regardless of what name you use. We'll also be doing signature images and such, as you'd expect.

[Malloy]

Awsome, definitely add filters so I dont have to look at non careables stats, thanks :D

[klange]

I'm going to bump the original content of my OP to the bottom and write up a more CE-specific overview of what Cerebrum is...

[.Wolf™]

Will heatmaps be implented?That could be pretty cool

Edit..Nvm i reread the bold :P Tired-.-

[Malloy]

KD spread please

[jcap]

Synapse is basically the main communication part of this system. Cerebrum is the main database and frontend for stats.

Also, Synapse will be able to communicate back and fourth between the Cerebrum and the dedicated game server. This is how a global banlist will be accomplished. If a person is found to be cheating, their cd-key hash will be banned from ALL stats and ALL servers collecting stats.

[klange]

Updated OP. I added some FAQs and put the global ban list in the features list.

[FreedomFighter7]

I'm worried about privacy. What about it? Tell me your thoughts on the subject and how you program will work to deal with it.

Also, I think you can scrap the plan for a global ban list, I can see this being abused by some server admins, and its impossible to cheat in halo today anyhow(apart from Tkers, and c4 switching).

[klange]

I'm worried about privacy. What about it? Tell me your thoughts on the subject and how you program will work to deal with it.

Also, I think you can scrap the plan for a global ban list, I can see this being abused by some server admins, and its impossible to cheat in halo today anyhow(apart from Tkers, and c4 switching).

What concerns do you have?
No personal information will be associated with your account except the (non-reversible) hash of your CD key, which will only be available to us as the Cerebrum managers and to Synapse servers (which already have that information). All other information is fairly generic and non-revealing.

The global banlist will be moderated and voted on, and there will be a place, most likely here, to post appeals. There are still a number of botting apps out there, and nothing is perfect at preventing their use.

[Sel]

I'm worried about privacy. What about it? Tell me your thoughts on the subject and how you program will work to deal with it.


Oh no, people can see how bad I am at halo :( :( :(



and its impossible to cheat in halo today anyhow(apart from Tkers, and c4 switching).


Funny, last I looked, blue arrow, the aimbot, and all that stuff works fine :X

[Skarma]

Not good at web stuff, but I'm interested in helping on the software development and pulling stats side of things.

[jcap]

I'm worried about privacy. What about it? Tell me your thoughts on the subject and how you program will work to deal with it.

Also, I think you can scrap the plan for a global ban list, I can see this being abused by some server admins, and its impossible to cheat in halo today anyhow(apart from Tkers, and c4 switching).

I'm not sure of your concern is of regarding privacy. There is no information communicated or stored that the server operator wouldn't already have. You cd-key hash is a unique MD5 of your key to identify you across multiple accounts, so your stats can stay constant, regardless of the alias you play on.

The global banlist is controlled by us. We will ultimately decide who will be added, and the decisions would be based on solid proof. All aimbotters will be banned by default. Repeated teamkillers might be an option or it could be a default ban. If it were to be more advanced, EXCESSIVE teamkillers would be banned from servers for an amount of time before being permananetly banned, like with the Xbox LIVE service. But that would require constant maintenance. But then whose saying that we can't have staff to handle that?

[Malloy]

This is probably impossible but like could you possibly get screenshots from ingame via this app?

So like once the heatmap generator is complete, at the time and place of the 'heat' of battle a screenshot is taken as a virtual memorabilia token :P

[klange]

This is probably impossible but like could you possibly get screenshots from ingame via this app?

So like once the heatmap generator is complete, at the time and place of the 'heat' of battle a screenshot is taken as a virtual memorabilia token :P
Clients would need to take the screenshots. We could distribute a client app, but I don't think we'd get too many people.

[Skarma]

Server could also take the screen shot, but nothing trivial. Just have to render the scene and get a copy of the back buffer using the clients camera orientation or whatever angle you want really. (Think of how sight jacking works). I disagree with the idea though.

[Malloy]

Im all for it would be win. gives you an insight on your friends game :P

[Limited]

Idea sounds very promising. How much of the data harvesting have you got sorted? I'd gladly help on the software development side if you need help.

I started working on some thing similar but very basic ages ago with Keihatsu for Halo PC.


its impossible to cheat in halo today anyhow(apart from Tkers, and c4 switching).

You have no idea what your talking about.

[Malloy]

fuck, I'd appreciate a Halo 1 stat collector slightly more than H2 because the post game carnage report tells you the headshots and everything, if they had that for Halo 1 that'd be sick.

[klange]

fuck, I'd appreciate a Halo 1 stat collector slightly more than H2 because the post game carnage report tells you the headshots and everything, if they had that for Halo 1 that'd be sick.
We can't really detect headshots to my knowledge. OS might be able to, I don't really know.

Anyway, just went poking around the H3 Career Stats page. I figure, we can copy all of that if we implement medals and what not. At the very least, we can get double kills and triple kills, et al. because you can just look at the timing on that (same for sprees).

To register a simpler user account name with your CD key, we'll have you join a specific server (one of ours) and enter a short code to show that you're there to verify an account. Since the the server can be trusted, we can see that you're using a certain CD key and you'll be good to go. (If you don't know your hash, play a game, then look it up on Cerebrum).

[n00b1n8R]

Cerebrum you say?
http://twatgeek.com/geekfeed/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/a5.jpg

Make it so.
http://subrevolt.com/phpnuke/images/submitted_images/picard.jpg

[Flare]

alternative pages to view data by teams, and in comparison to other teams, distinguishing stats by the private/public state of the server. so teams can say (and see for themselves), 'hey look, we're better than you on hangem CTF, we've got a 80% win record'. team pages should be either autogenerated based by [tag], or otherwise permit teams to make and regulate their own team pages.

[klange]

alternative pages to view data by teams, and in comparison to other teams, distinguishing stats by the private/public state of the server. so teams can say (and see for themselves), 'hey look, we're better than you on hangem CTF, we've got a 80% win record'. team pages should be either autogenerated based by [tag], or otherwise permit teams to make and regulate their own team pages.
By teams, do you mean clans?

[PlasbianX]

alternative pages to view data by teams, and in comparison to other teams, distinguishing stats by the private/public state of the server. so teams can say (and see for themselves), 'hey look, we're better than you on hangem CTF, we've got a 80% win record'. team pages should be either autogenerated based by [tag], or otherwise permit teams to make and regulate their own team pages.

What stops someone from making a tag, playing like shit, just to grief another clan and drop their stats?

[jcap]

Doing clans would be an extremely complex and very last thing. There would need to be an actual public backend to it where someone can register a clan and its members.

Really, I don't think clan management is all that important. That's what Xfire's for. Maybe we can collect stats of top clans.

[Limited]

What stops someone from making a tag, playing like shit, just to grief another clan and drop their stats?It would be recorded by CD hash. Although I agree clan data isnt necessary I think it should focus on individual players.

[sdavis117]

Lets say that someone made a server with no score limit or time limit. Would this app let the server recognize you if you rejoined the server, then give you your score from last time you were on the server?

[klange]

Lets say that someone made a server with no score limit or time limit. Would this app let the server recognize you if you rejoined the server, then give you your score from last time you were on the server?
That would be the job of the server extension. You should request that for rec0.

Clans are purely a Cerebrum thing, and would be fairly simple to implement, but yes, they're an after though, not a primary feature.

[klange]

Alright, here's an idea I'd like to implement outside of the current stack: Matchmaking.

We can write a client app that makes those fancy overlays and create a menu driven by Synapse and Cerebrum. On the server side, you need a small farm of heavy servers that can run multiple games at once (though with our low population, we shouldn't need more than maybe 10 servers going at once, and that's if it's popular). The server will also run a game manager that communicates with our client app to put players in games. When enough players are in the lobby, it'll start the game (the server should start as a dedi as soon as the first player requests a game to allow for load times), it'll signal the client app to join the game. The client app then tells Halo to join the server, based on an IP and port supplied. The server itself will need to monitor for players and make sure no one joins in the middle (and kick anyone that does), possibly just limit the players that can join and use a password (also supplied by the server).

How does this all relate to Cerebrum-Synapse? Cerebrum will track all of this and form rankings based on it, much like in H2/H3.

[jcap]

Yeah, Matchmaking could work, but I'm not really sure how popular it would be due to the already small audience.

You would probably need a custom main menu, too, that would support matchmaking. OS could create a new part of the main menu, where you would basically say that you want to join a game. An outside app would probably have to be executed then which would query a list of predetermined stats servers by Modacity (by IP:port). When an empty server is found, it will join all players at once to the server through the direct connect ability Halo has, and then once all players are in the game, a random password will be generated and applied to the server. None of the clients will know of the password, so if you're kicked, you can't come back, and no one can join. At the end of the game, once you reach the postgame, it will have to sit there and then move on to a "standby" map, I guess. When it moves on, all players in the server will be kicked because they don't have the password on join, and the server will be empty for another game.

Way bottom of the list, though.

[klange]

RobOplawar asked me if we could get a Synapse system for campaigns. I figure, if we put a Synapse implementation into Open Sauce, we can get campaigns to show up, but there wouldn't be much point unless we also found a way to track kills in campaign. I'll go ask for campaign "scoring" in the Open Sauce Ideas thread...

e: I've asked about the possibility of syncing permutations over the network. If armor permutations like in Halo 3 were made a standard part of future maps, this could yield some interesting results that we would want to display on Cerebrum.

[klange]

Alright guys, time for a bump.

I want to start getting Cerebrum cleared up and get a nice interface modeled after the one used for Halo 3, but to do this I'm going to need web graphics artist, because I'm not one to steal from bungie.

Here's the list of things I want to get done before Synapse is even implemented:

Service Records:
_._- Player view (prerendered Spartans of each color)
_._- Player screenshot (like in H3... only you have to upload your own)
_._- Career stats overview
_._- Recent games
Career Stats
_._- Medal chest (need some basic medals for the ones we know we're implementing)
_._- Weapon preferences (need side views of default weapons and popular customs)
_._- Achievements listing
_._- Ranking/rating history (need some icons here!)
_._- Heatmaps (I'm going to need overviews of popular maps, and we'll have a placeholder)
Game Viewer
_._- Tabs for various things: use a different Javascript method to switch them
_._- Need the right team colors for red and blue, not the pure-red and pure-blue that I have
_..._ (Luckily there aren't any other team colors)
_._- Actual game viewer like with Halo 3?
_..._ We can do it with the data from heatmaps...

e: As I've said at the top of the OP, I'm looking to buy a domain name for the project to host Cerebrum on. Currently I'm thinking about CerebrumCE.net (don't steal it from me :| ), any other ideas? Obviously, the good things like cerebrum.net are taken.

[jables]

i can probably get you some medal graphics and achievement graphics. got a list of the ones you are for sure putting in?

[klange]

The FAQs section of the OP has been updated to reflect discussion from the past night. Please note the answers marked Update!, as these have been added to.

We have a near-final XML specification and km00 should be able to release a Synapse dump test app for servers sometime "between now and OS's release."

[p0lar_bear]

What stops someone from making a tag, playing like shit, just to grief another clan and drop their stats?

If clan support was added to Cerebrum, you would most likely register the clan with us, and then have the roster added by the players' PID hashes.

Hell, could even make it so if a player joins a Synapse server with a clan tag that they aren't authorized to use (meaning that their PID hash isn't registered with any clan that uses the tag or name that they have), they get kicked.

[Heathen]

this would get me into CE again.

[klange]

this would get me into CE again.
That's the hope.
There are three big things happening in the coming months that will, hopefully, bring back a lot of people to CE. I'd post a thread about this bright future, but that would probably be going too far.
Anyway:
- OpenSauce will make all sorts of things possible and really expand what CE can do.
- There are multiple new campaigns coming out, like SPv2, Bridge (yes, Rob's actually going to finish that), and Thermopylae.
- This, which will bring stat tracking at the same level of Halo 3: you don't see that in other games for the PC very often.

Anyway, I've posted over at HaloMods, HaloMaps and Open Carnage with a short summary and the basic features list, and linked them all back here. Please let me know if you want me to post on another forum, I will take the time to register and post.

[DEElekgolo]

Didn't e3po already do this?

[klange]

Didn't e3po already do this?
There has yet to be a complete stat tracking application for Halo CE. There are a number of sites out there that can track basic information like kills, but we're recreating the entire Halo 3 game and service record experience.

Also, someone go bump my threads on HaloMaps and HaloMods so people read them, I've never been well respected at HaloMods and no one knows me at HaloMaps. (Links at the bottom of the OP)

[DEElekgolo]

E3po did make one. He teamed up with halo Guru with it as well. He used a direct x hook and had it upload stats on his site. But when he made it, it only tracked a user's death. And it was easy to exploit. Hope this one is better.

[klange]

Alright, here's some theory about something I want to do with Synapse-enabled servers and an extra client app: km00 has already expressed his anger at the complexity of the UI system in Halo, but I still want to see a medal display on the client-side during a game. Using a third-party app that creates a render overlay (like so many apps do) we can display medals by syncing with Synapse server, which can do all the calculations itself. Our client app can receive UDP packets saying what icon to display, and it can even play a sound (might want to not play a sound for the double/triple, killing spree, etc., obviously).

That's just my update for the hour... back to my H3 Swat...

[Donut]

i subscribed to this thread. would also love to beta when the time comes
E: and so this is supposed to track what weapon killed who like halo 3? how will it work with custom weapons or on a cmt map?

[supersniper]

Can you download Cerebrum and test it out or is it closed betas?

[supersniper]

I have a halo 2 vista server that I host from time to time, I could help test it for you.

[jcap]

The system will also track exactly how a player is killed. The weapon is recorded by its actual tag, so custom weapons can be tracked as well. As long as map makers separate their tags from the default Halo tags (and anyone else's), we'll get accurate recording.

[klange]

Can you download Cerebrum and test it out or is it closed betas?
Cerebrum can not be downloaded, it doesn't work that way. Synapse will be available when it hits beta, but please, post in the right thread and don't derail this one.

[klange]

Dennis demands that the global ban-list be opt-in. Thoughts?

[jcap]

Dennis demands that the global ban-list be opt-in. Thoughts?
Not going to happen. Anyone on the banlist is absolute scum and we don't want them clogging our stats.

HOWEVER, I had the thought of offering multiple banlists some could subscribe to in addition to the mandatory botters/hackers banlist. I don't know what those other categories would be, but if there is ever any controversal ban criteria, that's what these would be made of.

Also, he called us "anonymous moderators." We are in no way anonymous, and we will maintain the banlist to the highest degree. There will be no subjective bans or bias. Of course, we'll also have a one-shot appeal process. If you don't like it, simple: don't use it, and be out of the features the app offers. This can only benefit the game by cleaning up the mess it is right now.

[Masterz1337]

So this app will ban people you the creator think are scum?

[jcap]

So this app will ban people you the creator think are scum?
*know

And read the rest of the post.

[Masterz1337]

That's fucking sad.

[jcap]

Please comment further on what is wrong with it. You're not being constructive in your opinion, and in no way is it helping us.

I have demonstrated how it is beneficial to us and the community. It can only positively affect us.

The only ones who should be worried are those who are doing wrong, and will or have been caught.

[klange]

That's fucking sad.
We're talking about proven botters and hackers, people who shouldn't be playing the game if that's how they're going to play it. If you don't want to keep these people out of your servers with a ban list we openly manage, then you shouldn't get the benefit of stat tracking and all the other things we offer.

[p0lar_bear]

So Masterz, by your logic, Valve is sad for offering VAC.

I would imagine the people behind the moderation aren't going to ban people they don't like just to spite, and they're not going to ban everyone on the first report. If enough complaints come in on one person and there is concrete evidence that they're cheating, then a ban comes along. If someone is a tried and true asshat to people with teamkilling and being an annoying prick, ban. We're not talking about the occasional trole who's bored with the current 2-hour stalemate on Blood Gulch, we mean the dickheads who join, teamkill two people, quit, and repeat.

Stow the fucking vendettas plzkthx.

[Masterz1337]

It's none of your jobs to control this game, nor should any individual be forcing their will on people. You might as well be telling people to convert to your religion or get out of your city. If someone wants to use a globalized ban list you guys make, good for them, give them that option. But you shouldn't be forcing them to ban the people on your list just because they want to use an app, that frankly, you guys didn't create.

I see this is just a way to have more control over people that have nothing to do with you. Leave it up to the server owners to decide if they want to use your banlist.

Edit: I'm not the one with the vendetta. See my sig?

[klange]

It's none of your jobs to control this game, nor should any individual be forcing their will on people. You might as well be telling people to convert to your religion or get out of your city. If someone wants to use a globalized ban list you guys make, good for them, give them that option. But you shouldn't be forcing them to ban the people on your list just because they want to use an app, that frankly, you guys didn't create.

I see this is just a way to have more control over people that have nothing to do with you. Leave it up to the server owners to decide if they want to use your banlist.
Excuse me?

[jcap]

It's none of your jobs to control this game, nor should any individual be forcing their will on people. You might as well be telling people to convert to your religion or get out of your city. If someone wants to use a globalized ban list you guys make, good for them, give them that option. But you shouldn't be forcing them to ban the people on your list just because they want to use an app, that frankly, you guys didn't create.

I see this is just a way to have more control over people that have nothing to do with you. Leave it up to the server owners to decide if they want to use your banlist.

Edit: I'm not the one with the vendetta. See my sig?
Damn, I didn't think it was possible to take this and throw it that far out of proportion. We are doing what we need to do to create a reliable system for gathering stats. At the same time, it is creating a clean, friendly, cheat-free environment that anyone can play in. Server administrators should be thankful they are being provided a tool to lessen the burden on them for maintaining their server. What we are doing is just like PunkBuster or VAC, as p0lar has stated. Shame on them for ridding games of cheaters!~

In no way are we forcing this on anyone. You just came out of nowhere with that. This is a free server app that will be provided by us, and you will be able to use it at your own will. If you don't like something the app offers, then you are free to use another. Comparing this to religion is apples to oranges, especially since you're not even half right about your assumption. A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.

The banlist will have a great affect on us. We won't have inconsistent and unreliable stats due to cheaters and teamkillers. This is for the integrity of the stats system, with a secondhand benefit to server administrators.

There has still been no argument presented as for why it should be optional. Unless someone can draw up a valid concern, this conversation should be over.

[Ki11a_FTW]

:facepalm:

Masterz vs. Jcap: Take 3

also, looking forward to the app, should be very beneficial

[Donut]

Dennis demands that the global ban-list be opt-in. Thoughts?
i think so. some people want to host 24/7 banfree kind of servers or just not discriminate. its not like people dont have a choice if you make it opt-in. they can choose whether their servers should use the global banlist or not. imo you would be crippling the awesomeness of your program if you enforced mandatory ban lists

[Masterz1337]

^Thats a valid reason.


Excuse me?
My mistake, I was thinking of the thread my post was originally with rec0s app.

[jcap]

i think so. some people want to host 24/7 banfree kind of servers or just not discriminate. its not like people dont have a choice if you make it opt-in. they can choose whether their servers should use the global banlist or not. imo you would be crippling the awesomeness of your program if you enforced mandatory ban lists
Well if that's the case, then use another person's app. We don't want their player statistics anyway if they are going to run a cesspool for a server. I'm plenty sure the honest player base would greatly appreciate not having to deal with the fear of being aimbotted anymore too, being that all servers collecting stats will be a "green zone" for fair gameplay. We wouldn't have any "awesome" in our app if it wasn't for the secure measures we're putting into it.

It's not like people aren't warned about being cheating. It's a taboo across all games. Why should we be enabling them? They should be discriminated against because they broke the honor code and trust among the community. In fact, I look at anyone in disgust who enables them with servers who allow this to go on freely.

Again, what we are doing is providing a service. We need to run it this way to accomplish our goal. There's really no reason you should be upset unless you're protecting someone who would be affected because of cheating. I guess I should be sorry I don't have the same passion for cheaters and pirates that you do......or not.

[Rentafence]

We don't want their player statistics anyway if they are going to run a cesspool for a server.

I agree with a mandatory and universal ban list because of this. It would defeat the purpose of the app to have player stats for possible cheaters.

[p0lar_bear]

Masterz, you are blowing this out of proportion.


Well if that's the case, then use another person's app. We don't want their player statistics anyway if they are going to run a cesspool for a server.I'm going to stop you right there and say that the quality of a server based soley on what it runs is entirely subjective. I agree that raking stats in from casual pubs is stupid, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're a cesspool. If I want to fuck around, I join a bloodgulch/ctf_2fort/ctf-face server, and I'm happy they're there for me to fuck around in.

What we should do is have two types of global bans: a cheating ban and a courtesy ban. Server operators can choose whether to manage their own banlists (stats off, banfree servers), enforce cheating bans (casual stats, 24/7 stalemate and 100 cap servers), or enforce all bans (competitive stats, competitive/scrim servers). The two stats types are akin to Social and Ranked service records on b.net. I don't really play competitive servers, but I would like to know just how many skulls I've bashed in with the flag or how many times I've died from grenade spam.

At any rate, we aren't forcing this down peoples' throats anyway. It's an app for OS-enabled servers that admins can choose to install if they want stat tracking. It's like SourceMod for Source Dedicated Servers; nice to have, but it's not like anyone is forcing you to install it on your server.

[Advancebo]

Im thinking the app should have a popup with a question like:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A person on the suggested ban list wants to join the server, will you let him join?

[Yes] [No]

Options:
[]Always ask about this person?
[]Always let this person in?
[]Never let this person in?
(This can be changed through Settings)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just a suggestion

Also, if a person is on the banlist, will they be banned from their own server that they make, both dedi or ingame?

[SnaFuBAR]

Masters, not blocking cheaters who will taint people's K/D ratio completely defeats the purpose of stats tracking. Any argument against mandatory banlists is completely invalidated by this fact.

End of.

[Donut]

Well if that's the case, then use another person's app. We don't want their player statistics anyway if they are going to run a cesspool for a server. I'm plenty sure the honest player base would greatly appreciate not having to deal with the fear of being aimbotted anymore too, being that all servers collecting stats will be a "green zone" for fair gameplay. We wouldn't have any "awesome" in our app if it wasn't for the secure measures we're putting into it.

It's not like people aren't warned about being cheating. It's a taboo across all games. Why should we be enabling them? They should be discriminated against because they broke the honor code and trust among the community. In fact, I look at anyone in disgust who enables them with servers who allow this to go on freely.

Again, what we are doing is providing a service. We need to run it this way to accomplish our goal. There's really no reason you should be upset unless you're protecting someone who would be affected because of cheating. I guess I should be sorry I don't have the same passion for cheaters and pirates that you do......or not.
well bacon asked for people's input, so i gave mine. obviously cheating is bad, but banlists arnt just limited to cheating. i know you guys said yours would be cheaters only, but im saying if a person aimbots one time or get accused of it then banned, and another person has a server and wants the first guy to be able to play on it, its sucks that he has to choose between the awesome server app or his friend. or what if you disabled stat tracking for people who opt out of the ban list? again, you guys are asking for suggestions, and im just giving them. no need to attack me for that

[Advancebo]

Yeah, why ban them from the game, why not rather ban them from stat tracking, and anything that person does to other players. Such as getting 25 aimbot kills on a player, that player wont get tracked for the deaths caused by the aimbotter.

[jcap]

Because that makes it overly complex. And still, please tell me why they deserve to even play?

Plus, you're still ruining the game for those who play. Even if you null any deaths from the cheater, their kill streak and their position are blown.

[Donut]

well for example: about a month ago, me and a friend were getting aim botted upon in a server. so we tried to find aimbots for 1.08 to aimbot back on the guys with. i couldnt find one and he didnt even know what he was looking for. i mean i realize that we can just leave and go to another server, but aimbotting back would have produced more "luls" for us. tell me you havent ever done anything stupid with your friends.

i see what you mean by making things overly complicated and worrying about tainting K/D ratios, and i agree with you that cheaters would taint those games. let me give another example here: im always paranoid when i play halo because my laptop does this weird thing where the mouse will fly off to the corner of the screen and make my view in halo spin in circles. i usually play in those sniper no shield servers on a map like hang em high. im always worried that people are going to assume im aimbotting if they sight jack me and see that happen. the chances of that happening are probably slim to none, but i still think about that when i play. that mouse thing happens in other games too, and in 3ds max, so i guess its a vista thing or something with my drivers.

tl;dr its your app, do what you want. i was just providing ideas for you
E: oh were you talking to Bo about the overly complex thing? because i was just saying to totally disable stat tracking for servers that dont use the global banlist
E2: and it seems like you dont like cheaters JCap. i dont either, and i totally understand your reasoning. but cant people just not play in the servers that disable global banlists? i myself dont like cheaters, and i dont support them either, but im saying that some people do and would probably like to option to let them play in their server. lord knows why, but thats their choice.

[Advancebo]

yeah, i mean, they did buy the game to play and have fun. And if cheating is their way of having fun, let them be.
Im pretty sure Microsoft has something to let them play, and that no one can stop them from playing.

[Kornman00]

Yeah, why ban them from the game, why not rather ban them from stat tracking, and anything that person does to other players. Such as getting 25 aimbot kills on a player, that player wont get tracked for the deaths caused by the aimbotter.
Because, the people in that stats server want to have legitimate stats. Not counting those stats would then require the server app to modify the game code to not count that player as they could be the one who helped that team win according to the game's scores. Or in the case of TKers, they could be the ones who dragged them down. You still have to wait to respawn after someone TKs you know.

The stats feature isn't meant to be game code invasive.

[Donut]

i know im really hammering this in, but what if you TOTALLY disabled stat saving for that whole server if they opt out of the banlist?
E: if people want the features of the app and also want to cheat, then i think they should be able to. if people want stats, then they dont have to play in the servers with cheaters

[jcap]

Two wrongs don't make a right. You're just as wrong as the guy who was doing it to you in the first place.

Identifying cheaters is a hit or miss. There's really no gray area. There is a very dark, bold line that distinguishes someone who bots and someone who doesn't. A random mouse spaz, no matter how bad, is not a sight of an aimbotter. Snapping onto people and leading them through solid geometry is. You'll need more than just a mouse glitch to convict someone.

People can play in any server not running the app. We're not preventing that.


If someone wants to cheat to "have fun":
First, fuck them.
Second, no. We're not letting them play under our rules.

Don't like it? Go somewhere else.

Microsoft can't do anything about it. Really, they can't. It's no different than a regular ban on a private server.

[klange]

i know im really hammering this in, but what if you TOTALLY disabled stat saving for that whole server if they opt out of the banlist?
E: if people want the features of the app and also want to cheat, then i think they should be able to. if people want stats, then they dont have to play in the servers with cheaters

Why use the app?
(this was originally posted from my PSP, see the next page for my full reply)

[Donut]

doesnt this let you have the text based dev commands and all that other stuff? or is this specifically for the stat tracking. now that you say that, i might have this and the other app mixed up. if this is just the stat tracking, then yeah, fuck cheaters.

if this is being implemented into the other app with the text based stuff, then i still stand by my other opinion.

[p0lar_bear]

How about an option for server admins to make it so someone on the banlist(s) can stay in the server for X amount of time, but while there they can deal no damage whatsoever?

Probably would be a simple case of (object_set_melee_attack_inhibited <object> <boolean>) and (object_set_ranged_attack_inhibited <object> <boolean>) on the player in question. The banned person sees themselves attacking due to the client-sided nature of the game, yet the server doesn't let them actually attack.

[Advancebo]

Or maybe let the banned persons spectate. Though I dont know if its possible to not let them spawn.

[klange]

Alright, I'm so in to this I ran into my basement and grabbed my netbook just so I could type more than a short sentence on the matter.

What is the banlist for? The banlist covers known, proven, and tried aimbotters and TKers, the kind that just join servers to do these things and rarely ever play an honest game. If you botted once a year ago, you're not going to be on this list.

What happens when a banned player is able to join a game? We have to void the entire game. We can't accept parts of game - Jcap explained why. That banned player may have made a massive difference in the game play. We just can't accept it, so the entire game must be voided. And at that, why should we give the botter the luxury of a constant monument to their cheating by providing them with a game overview?

How would you like it if you were in a game where you had gotten hundreds of points on our system, and were in the lead, and then a botter joins in the last few minutes? Your game has just been ruined, all of that effort has gone to waste, and why? Not because a botter joined, but because the server admin refused to accept a ban list.

Synapse is a service that can be provided through other apps. Whether you use Synapse depends on whether you accept the banlist, but only Synapse depends on this. An example of this system is the iPod: To use Genius playlists, i have to allow iTunes to send information on my music to Apple. If I don't accept that, I still get to use my iPod, but I can't use Genius playlists. In this case, Synapse is the Genius Playlists and the iPod is rec0 or SAPP, etc.

It should be fairly simple, if you want to allow cheaters to join your games, you will not be allowed to use our service because the only way we could allow that to happen would be to destroy the experience for players, and we refuse to give botters another weapon.

e: @p0lar: Mindfucks and free kills?

[p0lar_bear]

e: @p0lar: Mindfucks and free kills?Exactly. Consider my previous idea of splitting the records into "Social" stats for "pub scrub" servers that run things like 24/7 100-Cap CTF Blood Gulch servers where people tend to dick around and have a good time, and "Serious" stats for servers where games are to be played with no fooling around. Social servers could have the option to mindfuck enabled.

[Donut]

yeah ok i thought this was a different app. this is just the stats one. so yeah i support enforced banlists.
there should still be a "serious" stat list and a "social" stat list like polar said though, because if there isnt, people can skew the stats just as badly as cheaters can.

[FluffyDucky™]

Exactly. Consider my previous idea of splitting the records into "Social" stats for "pub scrub" servers that run things like 24/7 100-Cap CTF Blood Gulch servers where people tend to dick around and have a good time, and "Serious" stats for servers where games are to be played with no fooling around. Social servers could have the option to mindfuck enabled.

This. Wtf is this mindfuck option thing though?

[klange]

The mindfuck+free kills would only work in an FFA slayer game. It doesn't prevent them from reaching objects in CTF, Oddball, or KoTH, and it totally destroys a game of team slayer, giving the other team an unfair advantage. Not going to happen.

We already have plans for "Social" vs. "Ranked" matches (though we're not calling the higher level "ranked" because it's misleading: both match types will allow players to accumulate points)

Our structure is as follows:
Social - Matches like those never-ending bloodgulch 24/7 servers. You still get points for your kills here and the games will be fully tracked (including a complete list of all players who were ever on either team).
Hardcore - Matches that are closer to Halo 2 and Halo 3-style gameplay. Ie, 30-minute, first-to-50 team slayer, usually on custom maps. This is the sort of things the Bunghole/Bungnull hosts. Bonus points are awarded for winning, and in general, you get more points for kills/flag captures/time in the hill/etc.
Ranked - These are league matches. The "Ranked" here means they are part of an exclusive tournament ranking system. These games are specially sanctioned by the C-S team (or at least, accepted by us) and subject to specific rules.

Also, as we've said, we have a ranking/rating system that follows the Halo 3 rates but uses a COD-like point collection system. We have the same rates as from Halo 3 (from recruit to general) as well as a personal "ONI SpecOps" ranking for Cerebrum-Synapse developers (we still have our regular rating, but this is displayed instead, it's simply an indicator that we're developers of the system).

Medals: I'm working on a list of all the medals will be looking into. Most of these are fairly simple and will require only looking at the information we are given by Synapse. Others may require us to look deeper and expand the data provided.

Multi-Kills

Double Kill - Kill 2 opponents within 4 seconds
Triple Kill - Kill a third opponent within 4 seconds
Overkill - 4
Killtacular - 5
Killtrocity - 6
Killimanjaro - 7
Killtastrophe - 8
Killpocalypse - 9
Killionaire - 10

Sprees


Killing Spree - 5 without dying
Killing Frenzy - 10 without dying
Running Riot - 15
Rampage - 20
Untouchable - 25
Invincible - 30

(not done with this)

[supersniper]

No I say keep the old halo medal or spree ones. Like how killtacular is for 4 kills instead of 5. IDk we could be creative and make up our own medal list.

Also another feature would be to track the hog/shee kills you kow for those hog noobs ;)

[klange]

No I say keep the old halo medal or spree ones. Like how killtacular is for 4 kills instead of 5. IDk we could be creative and make up our own medal list.

Also another feature would be to track the hog/shee kills you kow for those hog noobs ;)
We'll pretty much have all of the Halo 3 medals which we can actually tracker. Splatter sprees of 5 and 10 will be present as well..
I guess we should probably keep the Halo 1 names, I didn't know they were different (I don't pay attention)

[jcap]

I think a combination between Halo 2 and Halo 3's killing spree medals would be good. Halo 2 still had 4 as a killtacular, but they didn't go higher than 7 (killimanjaro). We could also just drop names all together (it's not like you'll see them anyway), and just give medals for the number of consecutive kills.

[klange]

Join #cerebrum@irc.phpwnage.com some time today or tomorrow and we'll discuss it more actively.

Time to talk about Modacity integration, like should we put this in the upper right of each post? Just on player profiles? Not at all?

e: You can follow Cerebrum-Synapse on Twitter (http://twitter.com/cerebrumsynapse). Eventually, it'll become a bot and say when Ranked matches have ended and post scores and such.

[p0lar_bear]

The mindfuck+free kills would only work in an FFA slayer game. It doesn't prevent them from reaching objects in CTF, Oddball, or KoTH, and it totally destroys a game of team slayer, giving the other team an unfair advantage. Not going to happen.

Which is why I suggested enabling the option for "Social" servers only, where everything is made up and the points don't matter.

That's right, the points are just like reasonings for a circle jerk not being gay (http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=759157). Completely useless.

[klange]

While I appreciate the Whose Line reference, Jcap and I have discussed awarding points for Social matches, though far less than Hardcore and Ranked.

[p0lar_bear]

Well then, how about if it's turned on, stats are not collected?

I'm just pushing for fucking back with cheaters on a whole new level. :q:

[klange]

Well then, how about if it's turned on, stats are not collected?

I'm just pushing for fucking back with cheaters on a whole new level. :q:
We'll think about it, but there will be a big warning next to it in the default config file, ie:
;; Allow botters on the global ban list to join, but screw with them
;; WARNING: YOUR STATS WILL NOT BE COLLECTED WITH THIS OPTION ENABLED
;; YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED
; screw_with_botters=true

[supersniper]

Now how will they be banned, through CD key? what aobut all that are invalid CD keys going to be rejected, are you going to accept 1.00 client or just forget about teh pirating as a whole, (because I know Jcap is strongly against it)

[jcap]

This will support 1.08 only. All other versions of Halo are obsolete.

Bans will be handled just like they are now - CD key hash. No matter how many names you use, your specific copy of Halo will be banned from all supported servers for the duration of your ban which could range anywhere from two weeks to permanent, depending on the offense.

Illegally obtained CD keys will be banned as well. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever a pirated copy should be permitted to play, especially being that the stats would be collected from several players.

[klange]

Now how will they be banned, through CD key? what aobut all that are invalid CD keys going to be rejected, are you going to accept 1.00 client or just forget about teh pirating as a whole, (because I know Jcap is strongly against it)
wut wut

We're only supporting the newest release.

[Chainsy]

Oh, already addressed.

[supersniper]

alright. Cool, that would make sense.

[Chainsy]

wut wut

We're only supporting the newest release.
Thing is, with this kind of new stuff here, it could be a nice incentive for them to move up and unify the community as a whole on the current update, and with the cd hash checking they will have no reason to move up.

[jcap]

They don't deserve it jack shit.

There's every reason to "move up" if you have a legal copy of the game. If not, we don't miss you. If anything, this just gives anyone who pirated the game a reason to buy it.

[klange]

Honestly, at the rate things are going, we should use OS's version-changer to make all of this exclusive to "1.09". A sort of "Community Revision".

[Joshflighter]

This sounds awesome!

-edited because I don't want to start anything.

[StankBacon]

Masters, not blocking cheaters who will taint people's K/D ratio completely defeats the purpose of stats tracking. Any argument against mandatory banlists is completely invalidated by this fact.

End of.


^


also, the OS 1.09 idea is win.

[p0lar_bear]

I'm not too fond of the idea of yet ANOTHER Halo version specifically meant to break up the userbase even further.

[jcap]

To be honest, I would be afraid of a 1.09 version, especially without any autoupdate that would distribute it.

That being said, I am curious if there would be any way to somehow get servers to display two version numbers to Gamespy. I'm saying this because we can probably create a custom main menu which would change the version number when viewing a page, then you can click "Get List" and all 1.09 servers (tracking) would appear. Leaving that screen will revert to 1.08, and you'd get the full list, including those "1.09" servers. It would pretty much be a filter. Either that, or if there was a way to get Halo's browser to display servers from both 1.08 and 1.09.

[Cortexian]

I can volunteer a server for testing or whatever, other than that I can't really help out much.

[klange]

I'm thinking we just need some way for Synapse-equipped servers to identify themselves as such and a custom menu that can display this information.

[p0lar_bear]

Make it so whenever sv_name is called to change the server name, it forces [SYNAPSE] as the first word.

[klange]

Make it so whenever sv_name is called to change the server name, it forces [SYNAPSE] as the first word.
That takes a lot of characters out of possible name lengths, unless we can filter it back out with some hacked scripting or something on a custom ui.map...

Random question, still related: what does the halo icon mean in the server list? *asks google*
e: I'm wondering if, through a ton of hacking, we can replace that value with whether the server has Synapse. Then it can be filtered, and we can replace that icon with a small version of the Synapse logo (ie, at this point, probably the Mendicant Bias red AI logo)

[p0lar_bear]

That takes a lot of characters out of possible name lengths, unless we can filter it back out with some hacked scripting or something on a custom ui.map...

Random question, still related: what does the halo icon mean in the server list? *asks google*

The little Halo means that the game currently running on the server is using a Classic gametype. Afaik the bitmap is built into map, just like every other bitmap. You would need to distribute a special ui.map to do it.

And server names can get p long, I don't see an issue. Most scrub admins like to add a million exclamation points or spaces to the name to get their server at the top of the list (who the hell sorts by name anyway?), so what's 10 characters?

[Kornman00]

I think I'll just have "[KM00WASHERE]" prepended to the server name :downs:

[klange]

I think I'll just have "[KM00WASHERE]" prepended to the server name :downs:
WFM.

But seriously, can we make a custom ui.map that does what I described, km00, or is it asking for too much?

And that doesn't even address the "we need a UI for Matchmaking, and I'd much prefer an actual in-game one" issue... Fun stuff =)

[Kornman00]

As I've lectured in the OS threads already, Open Sauce is not here to break compatibility or cause a reliance on specific data in a specific cache, which is what a custom ui would require. I don't want OS to become an overly complex codebase with all these crazy hacks which people have to try and understand so they don't fuck up what OS does already (causing stability problems, etc).
Not only that, but the HEK would have to be extended to support the new ui definitions and well...fuck that, I've freely supported this platform for far too long, and there are other issues which I need to work on to improve myself in other things.

EDIT: so give the ui additions a fucking break. thx.

[klange]

kk

[DEElekgolo]

So will the global ban list be more of a player feedback system like what gmod has?

[klange]

So will the global ban list be more of a player feedback system like what gmod has?
Explain (I've never played gMod). The global ban list will be open to server admin-supplied proof of foul play. Server admins and bot-cops send in their proof that a player is cheating, it get shown to the public, debated by us, and if we rule that botting or excessive TKing has occurred, the CD key hash is added to the list and the thread is moved into another forum where an appeal may take place and further discussion put into the matter.

I'd like to move off the subject of the ban list for now, as how it works isn't as important as how the rest of the system works.

[jcap]

I'm not sure what the gmod feedback system is like, so I can't be the judge here.

However, I can say that if everything is implemented as planned, then it will rely on feedback, and it won't.

I'm hoping for a system where players will be able to file complaints against other players. If enough complaints for a player of a specific nature are received in a given timeframe, their profile will be silently flagged for investigation. For instance, is a player receives 50 complaints for aimbotting within 2 days, and videos AND GAME IDs are provided at submission of the complaint, then they will review the evidence and decide on a course of action. If no evidence is provided, then an investigation can be conducted where we might observe them in an actual game to gather evidence.

The system will absolutely not ban anyone automatically. The most it can possibly do is flag someone for review. It is up to the moderators to decide on the action necessary.

[klange]

^^ Jcap is pretty much the end-all for the ban list. "Not my problem" after all, my job is programming Cerebrum, and the banlist is purely a managerial task.

e: Seems we've hit the "oh no, I'm good, I'll get banned because of it!" group of people on HaloMaps...
e: FAQs updated.

[supersniper]

so are you going to get a staff of people that review and track down the filed players?

[klange]

so are you going to get a staff of people that review and track down the filed players?
We may. We still have positions open on the dev team, which reminds me...

Attention!
We are currently looking for skilled web graphics artists for the Cerebrum-Synapse project. Your only pay will be the rank of ONI SpecOps on Cerebrum and the ability to help moderate the ban-list. If hired, you will create appropriate graphics for medals, achievements and general styling of the Cerebrum site. Applications should simply be posted here, as we're not serious enough about this to have you PM us, we just need someone who can do this sort of thing relatively well. Honestly, if we cared a little bit more, we'd probably pay you. But seriously, it's a bunch of little 48x48 icons, not a big deal.

[klange]

*sticky bump*

I'd like to announce that Cerebrum HQ will go live on July 5th...


... I'd like to, but instead I'm going to announce that our *prototype* Cerebrum will go live on that day. We're currently hard at work getting a smaller, less featured version of Cerebrum up and running, ready to receive stats from microSynapse. Right now, we have a rough mockup (http://cce.phpwnage.com) of the landing page, minus all of the features. In general, we're going for a mix of the Bungie home page (http://bungie.net) and stats page (http://www.bungie.net/Online/Default.aspx), combining news with recent games. We hope that this layout will give our users the best experience when they first access a domain (which we still need to buy *cough cough*) and allow them to easily navigate to various points of interest.

[FluffyDucky™]

Oh awesome! So we will be able to use it for the HCEL?

[klange]

Oh awesome! So we will be able to use it for the HCEL?
Yessir, this is specifically why I asked km00 to get me a lite version within that timeframe. I've got the next week to get things ready.

[FluffyDucky™]

Woot! This should help us heaps. :) <33

[Futzy]

We may. We still have positions open on the dev team, which reminds me...

Attention!
We are currently looking for skilled web graphics artists for the Cerebrum-Synapse project. Your only pay will be the rank of ONI SpecOps on Cerebrum and the ability to help moderate the ban-list. If hired, you will create appropriate graphics for medals, achievements and general styling of the Cerebrum site. Applications should simply be posted here, as we're not serious enough about this to have you PM us, we just need someone who can do this sort of thing relatively well. Honestly, if we cared a little bit more, we'd probably pay you. But seriously, it's a bunch of little 48x48 icons, not a big deal.
Got some more stuff for you:
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/1756/10299430.png
Just a background for the achievements/medals. Need more info to design each particular one.
I always work in large scale and then scale it down to specifications.

My deviant art - http://avpdragon.deviantart.com/
Don't have much on it, though.

[Sel]

I'd like to see some fun stuff with map specific stats. Pictures like the one in limited's sig.

Also I can't stop laughing at the halomaps kids hating on this.


Modacity is taking our freedom away!

[.Wolf™]

I'd like to see some fun stuff with map specific stats. Pictures like the one in limited's sig.

Also I can't stop laughing at the halomaps kids hating on this.

He speeks the truth Sel:P

[klange]

Got some more stuff for you:

Just a background for the achievements/medals. Need more info to design each particular one.
I always work in large scale and then scale it down to specifications.

My deviant art - http://avpdragon.deviantart.com/
Don't have much on it, though.
Basically, we're looking for Halo 3-like medals, most of them should look pretty similar. We may have a few of our own medals, though, not sure at this point.

@Sel: Welcome to the party.
@Wolf: All your rights are belong to us.

[.Wolf™]

Correct me if im wrong..But there is those dragonball icons(Dont remember how many kills you need to get or what sort)(Never played halo 3 for that matter)(And dont make me)(I will play it if you pay me)

[jcap]

The way I was planning to do the medals and "achievements" was like this:

Every action you do will give you some sort of metal, like in Halo 2/3. If you get a double kill, you'll have something. If you beat down, you'll have something. The metals will be shown in each game, and you might have an area that displays how many of each you get (maybe).

There will also be "achievements", though. These will mainly be what are displayed on your profile. So if you get, for example, 10 double kills in a game, then you'll get an achievement for that which will be reflected on your profile. Maybe there will be one for playing like 1000 games, or something for a 3.0 k/d ratio.

So we need both. Achievements can be creative (with names :p), but medals should be much like Halo 2/3.

[klange]

On the topic of medals, depending on where we calculate them, we may have make a client-side application that creates an overlay and displays medals as you get them. This depends on us pushing the medal calculation into Synapse, though, and puts pressure on km00. Still working out how to reliably send the message to the client (probably going to have a **SERVER** message sent to just the given player, then our little third-party app will read the incoming chat looking for the right message). Anyway, just a little fun thing to make the experience more Halo 3-esque.

e: Also, made some progress on the Cerebrum landing page (http://cce.phpwnage.com). Sometime this week I need to break it down to parts (header, footer, push the CSS into a separate file, etc.) and get the basic game viewer done. Hoping to have "Cerebrum Lite" up by the 5th.

[jcap]

On the topic of medals, depending on where we calculate them, we may have make a client-side application that creates an overlay and displays medals as you get them. This depends on us pushing the medal calculation into Synapse, though, and puts pressure on km00. Still working out how to reliably send the message to the client (probably going to have a **SERVER** message sent to just the given player, then our little third-party app will read the incoming chat looking for the right message). Anyway, just a little fun thing to make the experience more Halo 3-esque.

e: Also, made some progress on the Cerebrum landing page (http://cce.phpwnage.com). Sometime this week I need to break it down to parts (header, footer, push the CSS into a separate file, etc.) and get the basic game viewer done. Hoping to have "Cerebrum Lite" up by the 5th.
Actually, I'd leave all medals to Cerebrum. We can modify, add, and remove medals that way. If we let Synapse do this, then we create a mess of things. Also, it creates a mess with the chat text.

[SMASH]

If you list what medals and achievements you want to include it would make it easier for people to make the icons for them.

[Sel]

@Sel: Welcome to the party.


I think my post might have shut up that slayer kiddy too :rolleyes:

[Futzy]

I figured out a way to simulate a polar array in photoshop :)
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7636/doublekill.png
So you're just wanting recreations of these kill medals, and all the other stuff original?
Edit:
Here's another
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/139/hammerfist.png

Also knowing what kind of stat tracking will be possible would be nice, because I'm not sure this one will be:
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3514/shieldsh.png
For having your shields at less than 50% for 60 seconds.
Made it last night before going to bed at around 3 am.

[FluffyDucky™]

Or make up our own ones?

[Sel]

Would it be possible to have a matchmaking (webpage based?) system for teams of people, like company of heroes or the console halo games(Do they have this?).

It would be quite nifty for people seeking to play another team of people, if it was active enough and such.

[jcap]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that, but if you are talking about a web page you can view that will list who you can play, then I highly doubt you'll see anything like that.

We can't do a matchmaking system like the kind you see in Halo 2/3 without an external app written which the client would have to run, and a server-side app for all the matchmaking-specific servers. There would also have to be an extensive backend setup for this. It could, in theory, happen, but it is such a long shot away. Also, it would probably have as many people searching for a match as you do with Halo 2 Vista. It's easier to just join a half full to almost filled server.

[Sel]

I was thinking something along the lines of an automatch system, using the -connect argument modification to direct players, or teams to a server.

I don't know how the fuck this shit works though so don't look at me :X

[klange]

Alright, guys, made some more progress on Cerebrum (http://cce.phpwnage.com), probably a good time to start working on the game viewer now...
@MrBig: We don't track shield status. It would be a bit too much for the dump file to handle.
@Sel: We have plans for a sort of matchmaking system, but it's rather complicated and won't happen until late in the year.
@Ducky: Most of the medals are easily identifiable, and we don't want to take that away by replacing things like Double Kill with a completely different icon. This extends to most of the other medals as well. We will still have some of our own, though, but most of them will be from Halo 2 / Halo 3.
@Jcap: I can see why having Cerebrum do it would be "better" in that respect, but I can offer one suggestion: we can write a "medal rules" file that can be propagated to Synapse servers. All of the medals can be descrbied by various criteria, and Synapse can just intrepret the rule file as such. Say, we have three types of medals: incident medals, spree medals, and multikill medals. Beyond that we have criteria like weapons, relative directions, time frames, etc. We can then recalculate once at Cerebrum to verify that the server didn't have a different ruleset (and even if it did, we don't care, we'll use ours). I just think that giving players a live view of their medals will enrich the experience.

[Malloy]

surely Kill from the grave is possible?

[klange]

surely Kill from the grave is possible?
Yes. We can determine that a kill occurred after a player died but before they spawned using our metrics.
Type: Incident;
Criteria: incident.type = kill; weapon = any; time > killer.lastLife.deathTick;

[Malloy]

Cool, how about this for a custom one... 'First Blood' :P just as a stat medal, records the first kill of the game. Then AvpDragon could make a cool custom medal :P

[klange]

km00 is currently discussing the details of what he'll have ready for the HCEL tournament: "microSynapse" (my name) will be part of Yelo and just dump postgame stats. It will need to run client-side, so a ref will probably need to run it.

@Malloy: incident.type = kill; incident.countByType = 1;

[sevlag]

now which servers do you think are most likely to run this?

anyways bacon i support this service as it will not only keep servers clean, but it will rekindle my liking for CE as it has been slowly dying as of late

[klange]

Updated Todo List as of 6/29/2009
Listed in order of importance
- "Lite" Synapse dump for HCEL tournament
___ km00 says he'll have it in Yelo in time.
- Cerebrum Lite game viewer
___ Should have this done sometime this week.
- Synapse in OS-Dedi
___ While high on the list of importance, it's not going to be done until August.
- The rest of Cerebrum
- Medal icons
- Medal Rules interpreter for Cerebrum
- Account linking on Modacity
___ We need the complete hashing algorithm for CD keys, and we need to be able to do it in Javascript. < !!! If you can figure this out, HELP
- Medal Rules interpreter for Synapse
___ This is pretty much my job...
- Medal Client
___ All me here, just some simple DirectX overlays and chat hooks. e: And there's a wonderful little sample app floating around. e: And yet I still have absolutely no idea what I'm doing (the sample app didn't work) HALP!

[Kornman00]

Cool, how about this for a custom one... 'First Blood' :P
Back when Halo 3 was in beta, I thought it would have been cool to have the announcer say to (it would be a local announcement) the first person to get a kill "First Blood!". I agree with this medal idea.

[Malloy]

Yeh and saying that, what about 'Finisher!' person who like ends the game with the last kill for the team :P

Edit: Ive forgotten what you can track for this stat collecting but can you track, say how many kills you got with a weapon equipped and if so, sniper rifle x 2 kills, one shot = 'Two birds' Medal ?

[Limited]

I go on holiday for a week and miss all the fun!

So, can I help out? :)

By the way, hashing algorithm is on GBX somewhere, I'd find it but I'm banned...I might be able to find it elsewhere though.

[Love De Lux]

By the way, hashing algorithm is on GBX somewhere, I'd find it but I'm banned...I might be able to find it elsewhere though.

I think this is what he is talking about. (http://gbxforums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?t=57316)

[jcap]

I go on holiday for a week and miss all the fun!

So, can I help out? :)

By the way, hashing algorithm is on GBX somewhere, I'd find it but I'm banned...I might be able to find it elsewhere though.


I think this is what he is talking about. (http://gbxforums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?t=57316)
That's the algorithm for turning the registry value into the CD key, and vice versa. What we need is the algorithm that turns that into the hash the server receives when you join it.

[p0lar_bear]

I'm pretty sure it's a reversed MD5 hash of your Digital Product ID, or it's an MD5 hash of your Digital PID reversed. I forget which...

[klange]

Yeah... I have no idea what I'm doing with this overlay... Back to Cerebrum with me... Figure I'll get the lite game viewer finished...

[Futzy]

Alright, well here are all of the copies of the kill medals:
http://img38.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=triple.png

[klange]

Alright, well here are all of the copies of the kill medals:
http://img38.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=triple.png
Nice. This is just the sort of thing we needed to get the medals started.

I'll ask again: Can anyone help me overlay something on top of Halo so I can do the medal display?

[Kornman00]

If you do an overlay, depending on how you do the DX hook, you'll break xfire and\or require Yelo to not be used. It can be done via Yelo of course, bitter and I used to load a custom semi-transparent image for when we did 3rd person recticles early in Yelo.

[jcap]

Can't it be done similar to the way Steam does their overlay? Theirs works fine with OS, unlike Xfire.

[Kornman00]

IDK how Steam does their overlay

[Futzy]

This one be huge:
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1152/splatter.png
My favorite medal from Halo.
What others should I trace before moving on to original stuff?

[FluffyDucky™]

Flag cap mb or the ninja one?

[Malloy]

Since Halo 1 has the flamethrower, stick an 'incinerator' medal, also what about a 'spawnkill' medal which can be either appreciated or frowned upon :P

basically clock it so if a player is killed within 4 seconds after spawn the killer gets a medal.

[Limited]

I'm pretty sure it's a reversed MD5 hash of your Digital Product ID, or it's an MD5 hash of your Digital PID reversed. I forget which...
Neither way worked for me...I tried decimal Digital PID hashed then reversed, decimal Digital PID reversed then hashed. I also tried hex Digital PID hashed then reversed and then hex digital PID reversed then hashed.

[jcap]

When the game loads, it calls a hash to be calculated twice. Here's the deal:

The format of the "CD key hash" is 32 characters, so it MUST ONLY be an MD5.

However, Kornman says that on load, it is SHA-ing part of the DigitalProductID key from the registry.

So.............

[sevlag]

on the subject of medals, may i suggest a medal that shows how big of a pistol noob a person is? sorta like a sniper/sword spree, if they get 5 PISTOL kills in a row, i feel that this medal is warranted because 9 times out of 10 i get killed by the compact sniper

[Limited]

@Jcap When the game loads, do you mean when connecting to a server or when Halo itself loads up?

[Malloy]

on the subject of medals, may i suggest a medal that shows how big of a pistol noob a person is? sorta like a sniper/sword spree, if they get 5 PISTOL kills in a row, i feel that this medal is warranted because 9 times out of 10 i get killed by the compact sniper

Medal award = 'God' or 'Total Eliteness'

[jcap]

@Jcap When the game loads, do you mean when connecting to a server or when Halo itself loads up?
I'm pretty sure that the hash is calculated at game load, then passed off to a server when you join (in addition to Gamespy's special hash for piracy protection).

It makes sense. The digitalproductid is pulled immediately right before the loading screen hits - right after Halo warns you that your graphics card isn't supported with the dialogue, or the Halo safe-mode dialogue. If you have a pirated version, I think it will tell you that your key is invalid right after those, and before Halo actually loads.

[Limited]

Well yeah here is where it opens the registry key for the PID.


004AB970 /$ A0 00436B00 MOV AL,BYTE PTR DS:[6B4300]
004AB975 |. 83EC 08 SUB ESP,8
004AB978 |. 84C0 TEST AL,AL
004AB97A |. 75 5E JNZ SHORT haloce.004AB9DA
004AB97C |. 8D0424 LEA EAX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP]
004AB97F |. 50 PUSH EAX ; /pHandle
004AB980 |. 68 19000200 PUSH 20019 ; |Access = KEY_READ
004AB985 |. 6A 00 PUSH 0 ; |Reserved = 0
004AB987 |. 68 B4A36000 PUSH haloce.0060A3B4 ; |Subkey = "Software\Microsoft\Microsoft Games\Halo CE"
004AB98C |. 68 02000080 PUSH 80000002 ; |hKey = HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
004AB991 |. C74424 18 2000>MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+18],20 ; |
004AB999 |. C605 00436B00 >MOV BYTE PTR DS:[6B4300],1 ; |
004AB9A0 |. FF15 34F05D00 CALL DWORD PTR DS:[<&ADVAPI32.RegOpenKey>; \RegOpenKeyExA
004AB9A6 |. 85C0 TEST EAX,EAX
004AB9A8 |. 75 30 JNZ SHORT haloce.004AB9DA
004AB9AA |. 8B1424 MOV EDX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP]
004AB9AD |. 8D4C24 04 LEA ECX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+4]
004AB9B1 |. 51 PUSH ECX ; /pBufSize
004AB9B2 |. 68 04436B00 PUSH haloce.006B4304 ; |Buffer = haloce.006B4304
004AB9B7 |. 50 PUSH EAX ; |pValueType
004AB9B8 |. 50 PUSH EAX ; |Reserved
004AB9B9 |. 68 B0A36000 PUSH haloce.0060A3B0 ; |ValueName = "PID"
004AB9BE |. 52 PUSH EDX ; |hKey
004AB9BF |. FF15 28F05D00 CALL DWORD PTR DS:[<&ADVAPI32.RegQueryVa>; \RegQueryValueExA
004AB9C5 |. 85C0 TEST EAX,EAX
004AB9C7 |. 74 07 JE SHORT haloce.004AB9D0
004AB9C9 |. C605 04436B00 >MOV BYTE PTR DS:[6B4304],0
004AB9D0 |> 8B0424 MOV EAX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP]
004AB9D3 |. 50 PUSH EAX ; /hKey
004AB9D4 |. FF15 38F05D00 CALL DWORD PTR DS:[<&ADVAPI32.RegCloseKe>; \RegCloseKey
004AB9DA |> B8 04436B00 MOV EAX,haloce.006B4304
004AB9DF |. 83C4 08 ADD ESP,8
004AB9E2 \. C3 RETN



Here is the code for the Digital Product ID


005830D0 /$ 81EC C8000000 SUB ESP,0C8
005830D6 |. 53 PUSH EBX
005830D7 |. 8D4424 04 LEA EAX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+4]
005830DB |. 50 PUSH EAX ; /pHandle
005830DC |. 33DB XOR EBX,EBX ; |
005830DE |. 68 19000200 PUSH 20019 ; |Access = KEY_READ
005830E3 |. 53 PUSH EBX ; |Reserved => 0
005830E4 |. 68 B4A36000 PUSH haloce.0060A3B4 ; |Subkey = "Software\Microsoft\Microsoft Games\Halo CE"
005830E9 |. 68 02000080 PUSH 80000002 ; |hKey = HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
005830EE |. 881D E0DD6B00 MOV BYTE PTR DS:[6BDDE0],BL ; |
005830F4 |. C74424 24 0004>MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+24],400 ; |
005830FC |. 895C24 1C MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+1C],EBX ; |
00583100 |. 895C24 20 MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+20],EBX ; |
00583104 |. FF15 34F05D00 CALL DWORD PTR DS:[<&ADVAPI32.RegOpenKey>; \RegOpenKeyExA
0058310A |. 85C0 TEST EAX,EAX
0058310C |. 75 2B JNZ SHORT haloce.00583139
0058310E |. 8B4424 04 MOV EAX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+4]
00583112 |. 8D4C24 10 LEA ECX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+10]
00583116 |. 51 PUSH ECX ; /pBufSize
00583117 |. 8D5424 2C LEA EDX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+2C] ; |
0058311B |. 52 PUSH EDX ; |Buffer
0058311C |. 53 PUSH EBX ; |pValueType => NULL
0058311D |. 53 PUSH EBX ; |Reserved => NULL
0058311E |. 68 B4216100 PUSH haloce.006121B4 ; |ValueName = "DigitalProductID"
00583123 |. 50 PUSH EAX ; |hKey
00583124 |. FF15 28F05D00 CALL DWORD PTR DS:[<&ADVAPI32.RegQueryVa>; \RegQueryValueExA
0058312A |. 85C0 TEST EAX,EAX
0058312C |. 74 18 JE SHORT haloce.00583146
0058312E |. 8B4C24 04 MOV ECX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+4]
00583132 |. 51 PUSH ECX ; /hKey
00583133 |. FF15 38F05D00 CALL DWORD PTR DS:[<&ADVAPI32.RegCloseKe>; \RegCloseKey
00583139 |> B8 5C365F00 MOV EAX,haloce.005F365C
0058313E |. 5B POP EBX
0058313F |. 81C4 C8000000 ADD ESP,0C8
00583145 |. C3 RETN
00583146 |> 8B5424 04 MOV EDX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+4]
0058314A |. 52 PUSH EDX ; /hKey



I'll look into what it does with it :)

[klange]

And I was just going to suggest we use my trusted-server key authentication method...

[Limited]

Well yeah that would be easier.

One interesting thing, is after it reads the Digital Product ID, it loads the PID into EDI


MOV EDI,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+4C]Later, it uses Crypt API calls.

Oooh

00582FA1 |. FF15 10F05D00 CALL DWORD PTR DS:[<&ADVAPI32.CryptCreat>; ADVAPI32.CryptCreateHash
Hmm tasty

[jcap]

But the server method makes so much more of a mess and takes more effort. Also, it doesn't give us the same security we'd have with the key.

Also, wtf happened to your screen name?

[Limited]

But the server method makes so much more of a mess and takes more effort. Also, it doesn't give us the same security we'd have with the key.

Also, wtf happened to your screen name?
Well yes, but why do we have to have the ability to calculate a hash? So we can stop people being able to spoof? Can't we just log their cd hash?


Also, wtf happened to your screen name?
You mean my name??

[jcap]

Well yes, but why do we have to have the ability to calculate a hash? So we can stop people being able to spoof? Can't we just log their cd hash?
It has to do with a method I derived for authenticating them on the website. It will provide the most reliable way (and easiest way) of linking your Modacity account to your stats.


You mean my name??
AIM. IM me.

[klange]

It has to do with a method I derived for authenticating them on the website. It will provide the most reliable way (and easiest way) of linking your Modacity account to your stats.
(still @limited): Whereas my method would involve having one of our own servers wait for someone to join with a certain name and enter a short (random) code.

Either way, we're looking to link a Modacity account (and therefore a Cerebrum account) with a CD key in a way that can't be spoofed, yes. The idea with jcap's method is that we display the hash to the user, but the key should still be the thing that is sent - or at least, that's what I hope, as I can easily change the contents of a disabled text field...

[jcap]

The idea with jcap's method is that we display the hash to the user, but the key should still be the thing that is sent - or at least, that's what I hope, as I can easily change the contents of a disabled text field...
Yeah, I want to show the hash to the user to give people the peace of mind that we're actually using what it generates, not the actual key. You're right, we might need to send the actual key and then calculate it on the server anyway because it's too easy to edit the field or edit the HTTP data. I did think of that, but I only mentioned it to Kornman and ShadowSpartan, I think. We'll just need to make it clear in the Terms of Service that the key is used solely for generating the hash - nothing else - and that the key is purged immediately after the hash is created.

Either way, we would still need to know how the hash is generated, whether it's done by javascript or PHP.

[klange]

@kornman00: This (http://cce.phpwnage.com/sample_lite.xml) is the format I'd like to have the Yelo dump come in. If you need to remove anything or feel that you can add anything, let me know, as this is what I'm building my 'lite' game viewer off of. The reason for keeping various parts is that I want the format to be as close to the final as possible (hence "overallMetrics" being alone in the <players> block)

[Futzy]

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/4089/flamer.png
I've already got all of the Halo 3 weapons vectored, so it will be easy to make weapon specific medals.

[klange]

Now is the when you should start saying "hey, that actually is starting to look like a game viewer" (http://cce.phpwnage.com/viewgame.php). Style and formatting time!

[Malloy]

OMGz how do I link my CD key NOAW!!!

[Higuy]

Looking awesome as usual.
I can't wait to see what this turns into its looking great. The stat's reminded me of Halo 2/3's post game carnage.

[Malloy]

Also has it been covered how our CD Key's will be safe from yo ho hoers and their bottles of rum?

[klange]

Also has it been covered how our CD Key's will be safe from yo ho hoers and their bottles of rum?
The CD key hash on a server is non-reversible. No worries, them h4xers can't get ur key.

@ higuy: That's the point; glad to hear we're on the right track.

In case you missed it on the last page... (http://cce.phpwnage.com/viewgame.php)

[DEElekgolo]

Oh my.

Can it track team changes in the middle of a game?

[klange]

Oh my.

Can it track team changes in the middle of a game?
Not the lite version, but we'll have the required information in the final version (http://blog.phpwnage.com/%7Eklange/synapse_new.xml). (See: players->lifeMetrics->team)

[Futzy]

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/1055/ar100.png
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7483/shotgun500.png
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/11/rocket1000.png
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6329/flamethrower10000.png

How do you like this set up for the weapon medals?

[klange]

We'd use them as achievements; I like them.

[Rentafence]

Holy shit, 10,000 flamethrower kills? Noone is ever going to get that.

[supersniper]

Very interesting.
Now how about the covenant medals be purple ;)

[klange]

Holy shit, 10,000 flamethrower kills? Noone is ever going to get that.


You'd be surprised...

[jcap]

I think the numbers were used for examples more than anything. I actually like them. Pretty nice.

[Futzy]

Ya, I was think four achievements for each weapon.
The numbers I just put there, you guys can tell me the amounts you want.

I'll continue working on these tomorrow, and try out the purple to see if that looks good for cov weapons.
Busy playing UT3 tonight :)

[jcap]

What might be nice is different color achievements with different symbols or something on them for different "milestones." So, for the first 1000 kills with an assault rifle, you have a blue medal. For 5000 kills, you get a...dark blue medal. Then like 10000 would be gold, and 50,000 white/platinum.

[Advancebo]

Maybe the same colors as the multi kill medals, but obviously with a different amount of kills.

[Futzy]

Alright, so you want something more along the lines of this? The covenant weapons only purple for the first level.
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/122/ar1000.pnghttp://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9490/needler1000.png
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/9633/ar5000.png
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/4153/ar10000.png
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5741/ar100000.png

[Kornman00]

Awesome medals man =D!

[FluffyDucky™]

Hah, that's sick! But it will take a fuck long time to get that last one! BUT I'LL DO IT! :D

[Advancebo]

Hopefully Halo CE wont die by then, lol.

[klange]

I was thinking 100, 500, 1000, 5000, 10000. Let the first two be easy, then the rest will be a bit more difficult. Everyone should, after playing for a few months, be able to get the 10k on the AR and pistol, but not the other weapons.

[Futzy]

Ok, I've changed them to 100, 500, 1000, and 10000.
I have the AR, magnum, sniper, flamethrower, shotgun, rocket, plasma rifle, plasma pistol, needler, a ? for custom weapons, and a hand for the beat down. I don't have the fuel rod gun, so I need a reference pic of that. Tell me if I forgot anything.
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8895/beatdown.png

[supersniper]

grenades/stickies ;)

[klange]

The Fuel Rod Gun in PC/CE has the same basic shape as the one in Halo 2/3 (http://halowiki.net/p/Fuel_Rod_Gun) (just a different color, which doesn't really matter)


Two things:
1. Jcap, can you change the thread title to just "Cerebrum-Synapse Halo CE Game Tracking" ?
and
2. AvpDragon, we also need icons for Slayer, KOTH, CTF, Juggernaut and Oddball, a la http://www.bungie.net/images/Halo3Stats/Maps/smallmaps/gametype_overlays/slayer.gif http://www.bungie.net/images/Halo3Stats/Maps/smallmaps/gametype_overlays/koth.gif http://www.bungie.net/images/Halo3Stats/Maps/smallmaps/gametype_overlays/flag.gif http://www.bungie.net/images/Halo3Stats/Maps/smallmaps/gametype_overlays/juggernaut.gif http://www.bungie.net/images/Halo3Stats/Maps/smallmaps/gametype_overlays/oddball.gif (only they should all be PNGs... I have no idea why bungie continues to use GIFs for things like this...)

[jcap]

This is going to need a development board soon if work continues like this. The communication needs to be focused on certain things.

For the achievements, they need more thought on all of our parts before the OK is given for full production.

We need to consider things such as the medal color schemes, sizes, and organization of the content in the image. Also, something that needs thought is the shape of all the medals. Bungie's Halo 2/3 medals aren't all the same - each one has a different design to it.

For the achievements, taking the above into consideration, I was thinking maybe like this:


The first level needs to be "easy and dull." Meaning, whatever the first milestone is, maybe 100 (they would ALL vary depending on the weapon), it would be a simple color. The first step in color could be the same for all weapons because it really isn't significant yet (let's just say light gray for now).
The next level is where unique colors would begin to come in. Now, even though I say "unique color," I don't mean that every single medal will have a completely different look for the same level. All of the highest ones should have a similar theme, like the platinum color. However, each weapon would have a slight tint to that. So, the needler might have a pink tint, while the plasma rifle has a slight blue tint.
They need to be scalable, and they need to look good at any size. When displayed on the site or in-game, they'll probably be about 64x64. That means you can't have much small detail, otherwise it would go unnoticed at that size. A good example to use is the number of small stars currently polar arrayed around the outside of the circle. If they were used, there would have to be fewer, but bigger. The symbol in the middle would probably have to be bigger as well.


For example, take the Triple Kill medal:
http://tiles.xbox.com/tiles/t9/PI/0ICLiGJhbC9ACBt0GltTVkU2L2FjaC8wLzI0AAAAAOfn5--n06s=.jpg
Notice how the stars around the perimeter are bigger and more spaced out.

[SMASH]

I am really excited for this and do believe JCap is correct in saying it needs it's own dev board, and you guys deserve it too. This might actually make me start playing CE again lol.

[klange]

Yes to the board :makememod:

Since the logo contest is over "pick one":
DEEhunter and MrBig:
http://ascendantjustice.com/files/voc/followup/mendicantbias01.png http://ascendantjustice.com/files/voc/followup/mendicantbias02.png
(Yes, I'm using the originals... they look better)

Chains:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn229/1chains1/synlogocopy-1.png http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn229/1chains1/cerebrumcopy-1.png

rentafence:
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/rentafence/Userbars-Sigs/cerebrum.png http://www.majhost.com/gallery/rentafence/Userbars-Sigs/synapse.png


I'm still going with DEEHunter / AVPDragon because I like the Halo theme and I've been using them already (and it's actually "precisely what I was looking for"), but rentafence's are good, too (we just need semitransparent versions)

[DEElekgolo]

Won't people start making achievement servers and achievement maps?

[Kornman00]

I'm fond of DEE and Big's designs as well. They're Haloish, and simple...they just seem to stick.

Chain's stuff looks pretty cool too, but I'm not sure if the Synapse icon is exactly fitting.

rentafence's are snazy and fitting (as they're quite literal)...however, I think they may be a little too detailed. MrBig's would at least transition well into an application icon and still look good at a higher res

[klange]

Won't people start making achievement servers and achievement maps?
You need to register a server with us before running Synapse (it's a quick and simple process - fill out a form, get a key); we can then track each individual server and find ones that are breaking the rules. At that point, games can be nulled, servers can be blocked from submitting stats, etc. Probably won't ban on a first offense, but a scolding will be in order.

qe: I think we're ready for a separate board simply because we have multiple separate topics of discussion going on here:
- Cerebrum Development
- Medals and Achievements
- Terms of Services discussion and tweaking
- Synapse "Lite" implementation discussion (aka, Yet Another HCEL Thread)

[jcap]

I still think the logo contest was done wrong. It needed to be explained better. It really didn't help create a real logo for us - only a symbol from the Halo universe that doesn't mean anything.

I don't mind the first, but they really are too dull. If they could have been expanded on more, that would be OK. But the symbol by itself means absolutely nothing.

[klange]

I still think the logo contest was done wrong. It needed to be explained better. It really didn't help create a real logo for us - only a symbol from the Halo universe that doesn't mean anything.

I don't mind the first, but they really are too dull. If they could have been expanded on more, that would be OK. But the symbol by itself means absolutely nothing.
If you want, we can rehost it and you can describe things in more detail. Personally, all I was looking for was a public decision on an icon from the Halo universe that could represent the system, and that's what was delivered. If you want more than that, feel free, it's not just my project ;)

[supersniper]

Linking CD keys? has it been started yet?

[Hunter]

http://ascendantjustice.com/files/voc/followup/mendicantbias01.png http://ascendantjustice.com/files/voc/followup/mendicantbias02.png


I like these two, but the colour is nasty. Add more grey, or something. They are just too vibrent.

[klange]

Linking CD keys? has it been started yet?
No, we still need a working method.

Cerebrum (final) will go live on August 1st, 2009. Cerebrum Lite will go live next Monday and record simple post-game stats for the HCEL Tournament.

[Futzy]

I'd add more and fix some messy parts, but how about this for a concept on improving mine and DEE's submission.
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/8655/50533024.png
I just used the ones bacon posted and not the one I drew (I forgot where I saved them) so there are jagged edges.

[sevlag]

dunno if the last post go through but...

i'd love to help with achievements/milestones and medal ideas, i'm a good concept guy

this is turning out to be a good thing bacon, i can't wait to see this, however i think people will be more using the pistol than anything else, so I think a pistol milestone should be a higher kill count than the other weapons, this will make players use other weapons

I'd like to know if, when the full version comes out, what servers will run this?

realworld will proably run this and so will POQ

[Futzy]

i'd love to help with achievements/milestones and medal ideas, i'm a good concept guy
I just started posting mine when they asked for some, anyone can make them.

[Hunter]

I'd add more and fix some messy parts, but how about this for a concept on improving mine and DEE's submission.
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/8655/50533024.png
I just used the ones bacon posted and not the one I drew (I forgot where I saved them) so there are jagged edges.

I don't like that. But thats my opinion. You have just added a bevel (I hate photoshop bevels); a stroke; gradient fill and outer glow with default colour settings.

But I do like the colours.

[Futzy]

Ya, as I said that was a concept. The colors were more what I was showing.
And no I did not add an outer glow or stroke, that's just left over from the beveling process that I used and messed up on.

@supersniper: Ha, Halo is one of the few games that doesn't really use a dark color palette.

[supersniper]

Yeah... I agree with Hunter except i don't like the color either it seems to orangy... Halo is more darkish instead of bright colors use like a dark red or something.

[Hunter]

I see, looks like you added a stroke and outer glow Lol. I will make some colours which i think look good on them now and post in a min.

Edit: I prefer these colours. Made two with gradients as well.
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/martynball/icon2.pnghttp://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/martynball/icon1.png

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/martynball/icon2-2.pnghttp://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/martynball/icon1-1.png

[Futzy]

Yea, I think it'd be better to keep it simple and just add a gradient like that instead of anything like I did.

[klange]

I can apply those color palettes to an SVG...

[Heathen]

Hopefully Halo CE wont die by then, lol.
Imo its dead but this could revive it.
E: as far as the logo, lets not get all web2.0 on it and have it shiny with glass buttons and all that lame crap.
by sticking to the 2d version it makes it look more...idk...homebrewed.
its hard to explain.

[Hunter]

I prefer have it one solid colour instead of fancy shit. Nice and simple is awesome.

[Heathen]

What the Janet Flight pelican said.

[Malloy]

Wow I cant wait for this APP TO FINISH! Custom achievements ftw.

Also make a medal system based upon the amount of time you live between dying aka.

5 minutes = Cub Scout

10 minutes = Survivor

This will spur people on to be more tactful and also give them a sense of satisfaction for stayin alive whilst racking up kills.

[Rentafence]

Can the app figure out what map someone is playing on? It might be cool to have medals for playtime on certain maps, and as a result might encourage people to play maps other than snowgrove and bloodgulch.

[Futzy]

Wow I cant wait for this APP TO FINISH! Custom achievements ftw.

Also make a medal system based upon the amount of time you live between dying aka.

5 minutes = Cub Scout

10 minutes = Survivor

This will spur people on to be more tactful and also give them a sense of satisfaction for stayin alive whilst racking up kills.
If this is done it will also have to check for kills within that timeframe.

[Malloy]

If this is done it will also have to check for kills within that timeframe.

yeh true :P

cap it so that they can only get the first medal if they have 1 kill and the 2nd if they get another kill beyond the 5 minutes. Seems a bit tricky, but cool.

[klange]

Can the app figure out what map someone is playing on? It might be cool to have medals for playtime on certain maps, and as a result might encourage people to play maps other than snowgrove and bloodgulch.
Of course... It tracks games after all. (See here (http://cce.phpwnage.com/viewgame.php), TS on Blood Gulch)

I like the medal ideas. We definitely need a separate board to handle this load.

[Futzy]

Ya I'm waiting for a separate thread/forum to post everything I have, it would just be too much clutter in this thread.

[Heathen]

Psst, user albums. (http://www.modacity.net/forums/album.php?u=3428)

[p0lar_bear]

Just some more two cents:

Hold off on achievement values for the time being until we bring in some stats and get info on what people are killing others with. A stereotype I can't help but hold is that most players love to use nothing but the pistol, and because of that most of them don't know how to use any other weapon.

[supersniper]

... I use any weapon I see.
But I did notice that the stats page isn't very user friendly for people who don't know how to read...

[klange]

Just some more two cents:

Hold off on achievement values for the time being until we bring in some stats and get info on what people are killing others with. A stereotype I can't help but hold is that most players love to use nothing but the pistol, and because of that most of them don't know how to use any other weapon.
I agree with this statement.

[Futzy]

No numbers I've shown were said to be final, I just put in approximate numbers to show what it will look like. Anything I've made can be easily changed, such as the numbers and the stars I have arrayed around the circle.
For the stars I just made a photoshop script that puts the current layers axis at the center of the image and then rotates it 5.625 degrees for a total of 64 stars.
Trying out a new set up:
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/4747/starsm.png
Keep that size star or make it a tad bigger? Maybe suggest an amount of stars that you would prefer? This is 36, just like the stock halo 3 kill medals.

[StankBacon]

the colors hunter used in the icons are way better, please use them.

[Heathen]

... I use any weapon I see.
But I did notice that the stats page isn't very user friendly for people who don't know how to read...

Well people who can't read need to gtfo anyways. There is no place for the lazy.

[klange]

So, yes or no on getting the separate board up some time soon? I feel we have the need at this point, and better now and we get it structured than later...

[Kornman00]

If this is done it will also have to check for kills within that timeframe.
Also will have to weigh in the factor of the size of the map, how many players are in the server at the time, the game type (so weapons\vehicles available, and the health settings), etc. It's something Synapse could more easily determine since it would have A LOT more information to mine than the summery that Cerebrum gets.

[Futzy]

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6651/camping.png
DEElekgolo is going to render me a sniper. This isn't the one for just staying alive for a long time.
Maybe have it check how much the player has moved/location that he is getting the kills in within a certain period of time.

[klange]

DEElekgolo is going to render me a sniper. This isn't the one for just staying alive for a long time.
Maybe have it check how much the player has moved/location that he is getting the kills in within a certain period of time.
Ten kills without moving more than a few units (or dying). We can do that.

Achievement idea: Get 50 "Camper"s and you get "Pitch a Tent", the icon for which is just the tent from the medal, but a different color. (Maybe camo textured?)

[Malloy]

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6651/camping.png
DEElekgolo is going to render me a sniper. This isn't the one for just staying alive for a long time.
Maybe have it check how much the player has moved/location that he is getting the kills in within a certain period of time.



I'm a happy camper!

[Futzy]

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1364/camperw.png
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7398/tent.png
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/7398/tent.png
Thanks to DEElekgolo for the sniper render.

[DEElekgolo]

Perspective is a little off.

[Heathen]

Looks better blue.

[klange]

Looks better blue.
The camo'd one is for the achievement. (anti-achievement?)

[Malloy]

(anti-achievement?)

The achievement that when people see think, wow bad kid.
:P

Also how are these achievements working? Will they pop up on the screen in the corner or something because I could remake the 'microsoft' achievment box animation with the Cerebrum/Synapse symbol in it instead of the 'X'.

[Futzy]

Just throwin out ideas:
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/5058/marineg.png
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6186/marine.png

Also changed the sniper:
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/7398/tent.png
Still gotta fix the edges of the flaps and maybe blur the edges of the sniper.

[Heathen]

The camo'd one is for the achievement. (anti-achievement?)
Like I said, it looks better blue. I think the camo is ugly.
Also, its a legitimate strategy :saddowns:
[if achievements have names, that's a good name for it]

[klange]

Like I said, it looks better blue. I think the camo is ugly.
Also, its a legitimate strategy :saddowns:
[if achievements have names, that's a good name for it]
How about multiple levels of it? Say, your first 10 (which is fairly easy to get) -> "Pitch a Tent"; 100 -> It's a Legitimate Strategy!