The Right to go to War?

[English Mobster]

That's right, Modacity, it's MORAL THOUGHT TIME!

What, in your guys' opinion, justifies the right to murder millions in a war?
For instance, the United States claims its right to go to war to establish democracy against a tyrant who is trying to oppose his way on some people.
However, by going to war, aren't we doing the exact same thing?
So why is it justified?

[Kornman00]

Cake I've always believed justified the right to murder and start wars...but the cake is a lie :saddowns:

No but really, morality is something conjured up by humans. War is more or less an "evolved" form of territorial (pissing) fights. It's all bullshit in my books, but some people do just need a good ass kicking.

[Bodzilla]

you forget that america put him there in the first place.

[SnaFuBAR]

The vast majority of conflicts are avoidable these days. Politicians start them, soldiers end them. There is no such thing as a clean war, and civilians always bare the majority of casualties.

I say if a populace wants democrazy, let them have an uprising.

[Cojafoji]

a war of values is never justifiable.
a war of revenge is never justifiable.

a war of survival is essential.

[paladin]

War is more or less an "evolved" form of territorial (pissing) fights.

This.

Its human nature to want what other have. And therefore we'll do what ever it takes to get it.

e: Im not saying war is justified on that fact though.

[TVTyrant]

The only time you can go to war is to defend yourself. For instance, WW2. Only justified (although completely avoidable) war in human existence tbh. Well, I guess the American civil war too, but yeah. On the allied side of WW2 of course

[Warsaw]

War is a necessary evil in order to advance the technological standing of the human race as a species. Were it not for war, we'd be living like Hobbits, and when something comes to kick our collective asses, there's shit all we can do about it because we were a bunch of hippy fucks and can to little more than throw rocks.

That's my take on war. It's essential for survival. It's not pretty, it's not fun, but it has to happen every once in awhile to get a stagnant population moving again.

Also, the American Civil War really wasn't about emancipation of slaves, so it wasn't justified either. The Union just threw that in there to draw international sympathy before the Confederates could.

[TVTyrant]

War is a necessary evil in order to advance the technological standing of the human race as a species. Were it not for war, we'd be living like Hobbits, and when something comes to kick our collective asses, there's shit all we can do about it because we were a bunch of hippy fucks and can to little more than throw rocks.

That's my take on war. It's essential for survival. It's not pretty, it's not fun, but it has to happen every once in awhile to get a stagnant population moving again.

Also, the American Civil War really wasn't about emancipation of slaves, so it wasn't justified either. The Union just threw that in there to draw international sympathy before the Confederates could.
IDK, I like the way the Hobbits live. Its simple and beautiful in its own way. Kinda like Ireland before the Brits came.

And BTW, the Confederates left the Union because of the election of Lincoln, and were completely sure that he would bring about the end of slavery. While that had never been his intention, it was very clear that war would break out no matter what, so we fought one. And in 1863, he decided that all this bloodshed could not be for nothing, and after Gettysburg issued the Emancipation Proclamation.

[rossmum]

The only time you have the right to go to war is in self-defence (I mean proper self-defence, not pre-emptive or "this country funds terrorists, let's go kerb-stomp them") or if you're asked by another country to assist it in defending itself.

Not that anybody gives a toss, as humans are such disgustingly self-righteous creatures.

[TVTyrant]

The only time you have the right to go to war is in self-defence (I mean proper self-defence, not pre-emptive or "this country funds terrorists, let's go kerb-stomp them") or if you're asked by another country to assist it in defending itself.

Not that anybody gives a toss, as humans are such disgustingly self-righteous creatures.
Ross, if I hadn't +d you the other day, I would now. You and Icee are my favorite posters :iamafag:

[Heathen]

Why don't Presidents fight the war?

[English Mobster]

You've been listening to too much System of a Down, Heathen.

[Mr Buckshot]

What ross said. War is horrible and should be avoided as much as possible.

And yeah uprisings against bad governments are justified, but the replacement government formed by a successful uprising isn't necessarily better. It's just part of being human.

But unfortunately, war is always inevitable as long as humans continue to be human. It's like diseases. Every now and then a new kind of disease pops up. We can try to stop it, and we have succeeded before. But no matter what we do, it's only a matter of time before another disease comes about. It can take seconds, it can take decades, but it will happen. Same thing with wars. Just an unpleasant fact of human life that everyone has to live with.

[Kornman00]

I mean proper self-defence, not pre-emptive or "this country funds terrorists, let's go kerb-stomp them"
and not acting like a child and starting hissy fits while trying to throw rocks at a giant...yes, I'm talking to you North Korea. Stop testing our patience, we already know you're annoying poor communists >:|

[Mr Buckshot]

War is a necessary evil in order to advance the technological standing of the human race as a species. Were it not for war, we'd be living like Hobbits, and when something comes to kick our collective asses, there's shit all we can do about it because we were a bunch of hippy fucks and can to little more than throw rocks.

That's my take on war. It's essential for survival. It's not pretty, it's not fun, but it has to happen every once in awhile to get a stagnant population moving again.

Also, the American Civil War really wasn't about emancipation of slaves, so it wasn't justified either. The Union just threw that in there to draw international sympathy before the Confederates could.

Your take on war reminds me of HG Wells' The Time Machine, where the narrator's initial conclusion (before he learned about the Morlocks) is that the Elois are dim witted and lead meaningless lives because humans must've at one point completely eradicated things like disease, along with those human qualities that always cause wars. This also had the side effect of eliminating challenge and thus removing the desire to progress in the science or the humanities, causing humans to degenerate into a society like that of the Elois. Actually, even after he learns about the Morlocks his analysis still has some similarities to this - that Man lost his intelligence because he somehow manage to eliminate real challenges and thus felt no more need to advance.

Been a while since I read that book, not sure if I'm accurate but yes you could say war is a necessary evil in that respect.

[Ganon]

war is completely unnecessary. If you looked at it like karate, we should only build up a strong military so we would never have to go to war. but in acts of aggression, we must use self defense. however, unfortunately most of the time wars are just giant pissing fights lol.

[Cojafoji]

war is completely unnecessary. If you looked at it like karate, we should only build up a strong military so we would never have to go to war. but in acts of aggression, we must use self defense. however, unfortunately most of the time wars are just giant pissing fights lol.
nuclear proliferation.

advancing ones arsenal as a deterrent can only end in the eventual destruction of this planet.

[Mass]

you forget that america put him there in the first place.

Hang on man, wars which seek to solidify our grasp as economic imperialists are totally justifiable. Saddam stopped taking our orders and thus became useless as a puppet government, and if he can't do his job, we've got to "fire" him...

And assassination plots aimed at legitimate leaders, blowing up people's planes, torture, and teaching brutal techniques to right-wing paramilitaries the world over, those are also justifiable.

I don't see what point you're trying to make, but don't try to make this America's fault.

:realsmug:

[Sel]

If there's a legitimate reason to go to war, then it's not an issue.

[Rob Oplawar]

I have a fuzzy sense of morals when it comes to wars. I won't personally claim that wars are good or bad, I'll just say that people who justify wars are immense hypocrites: they usually refuse to place a value on human life, calling it priceless or what have you, and yet to justify a war requires one to at least implicitly place a higher value on the lives of your own citizens than your enemies.

[Heathen]

You've been listening to too much System of a Down, Heathen.
cant rep

[Bodzilla]

Hang on man, wars which seek to solidify our grasp as economic imperialists are totally justifiable. Saddam stopped taking our orders and thus became useless as a puppet government, and if he can't do his job, we've got to "fire" him...

And assassination plots aimed at legitimate leaders, blowing up people's planes, torture, and teaching brutal techniques to right-wing paramilitaries the world over, those are also justifiable.

I don't see what point you're trying to make, but don't try to make this America's fault.

:realsmug:

looks like i just got pwned in the pooper.

:realsmug:

[CN3089]

Why don't Presidents fight the war?

They're generally too old to and they're probably better suited to leading them?

[English Mobster]

Then why do they always send the poor?

[CN3089]

Then why do they always send the poor?

They're the ones who sign up.



Unless you two are suggesting we build a massive robot army controlled personally by the President using some sort of RTS-like interface, which would be totally awesome

[Disaster]

Unless you two are suggesting we build a massive robot army controlled personally by the President using some sort of RTS-like interface, which would be totally awesome
:agree:

[rossmum]

They're the ones who sign up.



Unless you two are suggesting we build a massive robot army controlled personally by the President using some sort of RTS-like interface, which would be totally awesome
holy shit yes

[Warsaw]

The way it's looking now, wars just might be remote controlled anyways...at least the airforce chairforce anyways.

[neuro]

i dont know why everybody thinks dictatorship is a bad thing, just because most dictators ended up being total assholes.

what if a dictator was a good guy and did all these nice stuff and had the country in awesome shape and (almost) everyone was happy (there's always bound to be whiners) then would they STILL have the right to invade and establish a corrupt democracy?

(yes, i'm against democracy tbh)

[neuro]

what if it were a female dictator?

[END OF INFINITY] ?

[rossmum]

i dont know why everybody thinks dictatorship is a bad thing, just because most dictators ended up being total assholes.

what if a dictator was a good guy and did all these nice stuff and had the country in awesome shape and (almost) everyone was happy (there's always bound to be whiners) then would they STILL have the right to invade and establish a corrupt democracy?

(yes, i'm against democracy tbh)
You're exactly right... the problem is, there aren't exactly many examples of dictatorships you can hold up and say "THIS IS GOOD".

Bad democracy is no better than bad dictatorship, the same way good democracy is no better than good dictatorship. The type of government is irrelevant. The way it's used is what matters.

[Dotkito92]

If we're fighting to free people from oppression, like in North Korea, we have the right to go to war.