Will We Ever Learn?

[DarkHalo003]

Seriously, it's annoying me. Unless the map is classic (surprise surprise), the weapon sets are rarely balanced. What does this mean though? Hardly any maps are balanced I play. Most CMT maps and Zteam maps (I know outdated) are badly balanced in some ways that makes them almost unplayable. I recently played Paradisu and the Wraith (Zteam) is awful and can be brought down by a pistol. I know to many this is a rant but I want to know a good map that is balanced and not classic.

[Ganon]

z sanctuary is fairly balanced. you do make a good point though, just about every map that isn't classic lack's balance. however, at this point in the game who cares. :pcgaming:

[Pooky]

You guys are talking like the classic maps had balance, idgi

[Ganon]

You guys are talking like the classic maps had balance, idgi

guys?

[Inferno]

I care about balance. :saddowns:

My maps are awesome. Play them. Do it.

[Con]

I thought the weapons in snow grove were pretty well balanced. Also, don't fuck with the pistol or people will hate you no matter how balanced you think it is. SP is another matter, balance all you want.

[Siliconmaster]

Balance makes a game fun. I support it, but don't actually play enough to know if a map is balanced enough or not. :saddowns:

[`CaSs!~]

I care about balance. :saddowns:

My maps are awesome. Play them. Do it.

Didn't you try to make the pistol a 4 shot kill and give recoil to the sniper?

Yea...don't do that.

[Ganon]

I thought the weapons in snow grove were pretty well balanced.

hahaha cmt... weapon balance... hahahahahaha

[Con]

hahaha cmt... weapon balance... hahahahahaha
Great post, care to elaborate? :allears:

[ODX]

hahaha cmt... weapon balance... hahahahahahaIn literally every CMT map I've played, all the weapons are balanced pretty well. You can fair pretty well with any two random weapons you choose, even a spiker for a quick one hit kill melee if you can sneak up on people.

[Ganon]

I won't bother arguing.

[Donut]

im pretty sure ganon could make a 20 slide powerpoint describing balance and why cmt maps lack it. i never really thought they were unbalanced (except for the goddamn smg), but apparently some people think they are

[Inferno]

Didn't you try to make the pistol a 4 shot kill and give recoil to the sniper?

Yea...don't do that.

I already learned how much profags love to to get a 3 fap kill. Hell even I perfer to use 3 shot.

But it's not balanced.

I changed it back to 3sk a while ago too.

[ThePlague]

I try to make my maps balanced :\

[ODX]

I won't bother arguing.Can you send a PM my way at least? I'm kind of eager to see your reasoning for the weapons and them only.

[klange]

Balance? What's balance? Balance can shove it up its ass. (http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=1902)

[kid908]

while talking about balance, How does this actually balance out? a ship camping at one base ownz everything since you don't spawn in one...

http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=1196

also why does it have a 9.1/10?

[Siliconmaster]

Well, novelty maps like Hugeass and Coldsnap were inevitable. I'd rather it happen in a somewhat sophisticated matter, like in Coldsnap, than in some noobfest map. Lolbacon. :P

[itszutak]

dunno I thought this map was pretty balanced

http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=955

They didn't touch the pistol, except for the melee

[supersniper]

To me i think the priority of balance has been lost in map makers because whenever someone comes to to post a map EVERYONE comments on how it looks.
Oh it's not shiny enough, oh it's not pretty enough, oh it's not textured to perfection.

Everybody has put out the image that maps have to look smexy in order to be played on so actual gameplay, weapon placement, vehicle balancing, and balanced as a whole is lost.

So really I agree only classic maps are at least somewhat balanced due to the fact that they use the original weapons and only placement is needed.

Other than that custom weapons need to balance and cooperate with each other when in the same map.

If you have a heavy at one base then you need another heavy at the other base.

If there is a sniper in the middle (only one)
then provide ammo at both bases so they can stay back and snipe.

If you have an assault rifle, and some other sort of automatic gun, make sure they are placed away from each other and not next.

Place weapons in areas that will need them, like if you in the open and you see a rock you go behind and duck and there lies a pistol (that's perfect)

Well yeah that's what I think.

[Con]

Visuals are what people know how to crit, people really don't want to spend the time trying to understand the gameplay behind whatever they're looking at. I wouldn't say that everyone has lost sight of it, but its typical of new map-makers and it always has been. The problem is that no matter how nice a map looks--or how well it plays, the popularity comes from the average CE player's opinion of the map. People come to CE to play custom content, and in the end theres not many people who can really appreciate the work put into balancing a map. If there's going to be custom content (what people want), then you better make sure its fun for the average player. IMO this is what made snow grove and coldsnap so popular. The next trick is making it fun for everyone else, where newbies can enjoy the custom content while vets have familiar and easy to pick up gameplay.
Anyway, I made a guide on basic balancing a while back on the Wiki. If we get a Wiki again I'll put it back up after I've finished it.

[Advancebo]

And all people want is "Halo 3 copies"

[jcap]

I used to think that balancing the weapons and vehicles to be almost the same was a good idea. Then after playing what I was spewing, I realized how fucking stupid and absolutely horrible it is for gameplay.

You don't "balance" a map by making all the weapons equivilent. If you do that, there's absolutely no advantage one weapon has over another, and it completely diminishes power advantages. If it takes an entire clip of pistol ammo to kill someone, and it takes an entire clip of an assault rifle to kill someone, what advantage does one weapon have over another? You'd might as well just have exactly one type of weapon on the entire map for everyone. It's best if every weapon is unique in its own way, and if there are weapons which are overpowered.

The way to actually work out the balance of the map comes down to design and weapon/vehicle placement. If you want an extremely powerful gun, don't start with it (or make it even by having everyone start with it), but make sure you place it within reach of each side. Give stronger weapons less ammo, while you can give weaker weapons more. If you have a weapon such as a sniper which can be used for camping, make sure that you don't put the weapon in a camping spot. Additionally, make sure that any camping spots are not well concealed, so they can't keep other players pinned down the entire game. For vehicles, you don't need to make it so they do little damage - you just need to make the vehicle more weak and/or give the teams reasonable weapons within reach to take out that vehicle. It's better to change the way the map is played than to change the weapons.

Halo 3 sucks ass because if its balance.

[English Mobster]

OK, here are my thoughts on the issue:
Any map I make isn't intended to be pretty. The layout was drawn up with gameplay in mind, then a theme adapted to the map. I post renders of the map once I have a theme and get started, and listen to the people who crit them art-wise, but gameplay ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS comes first.
Once I get it ingame, if some art is breaking the gameplay, it GOES, no matter how nice it looks.
If you guys can remember, Domain had beta after beta after beta after beta to get the gameplay down pat. There were minor asthetic changes to the map here and there, but it was ALWAYS about gameplay.
It seems like the community is always pretty divided about this. Some mapmakers focus on a great visual. Others focus on great gameplay. But it is very rare the two come together.

[supersniper]

Jcap is right,
I agree with the weapon placement idea.
Balance is all about placement.

[Advancebo]

Jcap is right,
I agree with the weapon placement idea.
Balance is all about placement.

Even then, the pistol is still a starting weapon :saddowns:

[English Mobster]

I remember when I removed the pistol from the starting weapons on Domain (not the map itself, just the starting weapons) and everyone bitched about it to me for DAYS.
It helped gameplay by having the damn thing out.

[ThePlague]

I remember when I removed the pistol from the starting weapons on Domain (not the map itself, just the starting weapons) and everyone bitched about it to me for DAYS.
It helped gameplay by having the damn thing out.
That's what i'm going to do on one of my maps. Because it's too whorish for a starting weapon on a close to mid-range level.

Placement is balance, especially when you even out weapons with other weapons.

Also, to me custom weapons, unless evened out with stock weapons, create an unbalance in game-play completely. Stock weapons are key to a users playability, imo, and when you throw something like a brute shot in (which is not h1 material, again imo) it throws off the weapon set's purpose.

I may be contradicting myself above, idk, but I just felt like voicing my opinion, especially since I personally think weapons are key to any level.

[supersniper]

maybe you guys should treat the pistol as a sniper in your custom maps.
limit it.
limit the ammo.
and lower the respawn rate...

[.Wolf™]

Jcap in my opinion a player needs to create his own advantages.Mapmaker can make the map they want,balance it the way they want.In the end its all up to the player to use it and in a creative way earn the advantage.

[sevlag]

Jcap in my opinion a player needs to create his own advantages.Mapmaker can make the map they want,balance it the way they want.In the end its all up to the player to use it and in a creative way earn the advantage.
thats pretty much true, its up to the player to make his or her own advantage(s)

i also think its a terrible idea to have a pistol as a starting weapon, because its one of the 3 (or 4, depends on the use of it) overused weapons in a map.

its ok to put the pistol on a map but like it was said earlier, treat it as you would a sniper rifle because thats what it is in Halo: Combat Evolved, a compact sniper rifle.

aesthetics are something that should be considered second to game play as you COULD have a great looking map but when you go to play it you discover that weapon A is in a bad place and weapon B, a more overpowered weapon, is too easy to obtain...

I've played inferno's maps and TBH the weapons are balanced TO AN EXTENT, however the pistol still reigns supreme on a map that is basically the pit in space (see omega station)

[Arteen]

I don't think balance is all about placement. For the most part, stock FRG has too much battery, PP, PR Needler, are useless, and AR is somewhat weak. Classic maps do have balance, but not much variety. I also thought CMT maps were pretty balanced, too.

[=sw=warlord]

I don't think balance is all about placement. For the most part, stock FRG has too much battery, PP, PR Needler, are useless, and AR is somewhat weak. Classic maps do have balance, but not much variety. I also thought CMT maps were pretty balanced, too.
The plasma pistol was all i used when i first played halo pc.
Two over charge shots and you killed someone.

[Higuy]

tl;dr
You need to make a map fun before you makit pretty.
That dosen't just mean your weapon placment needs to be good, the actuall layout of the map needs to work well and play right. If your going to have teleporters on both side, they need to be equal in lenght to each other. Scenery isn't just for looks either, they help the map play out. Custom weapons are good, but they need to be well thought out about there strengths and disadvatages. Vehicles are a key essential to bigger maps. Vehicle battles are quite fun, so if your map has tunnels and pathways then they'd play out well. Hills, caves, and small ramps and crevis's are good in maps to make decent terrain for gameplay, but structures are also good for bases and other things. Like others said about weapon placment, I'd use Jcaps or supersnipers crit th most.

Id type up more but I'm on my iPhone..

[Alwin Roth]

^
One of his maps is balanced, wait..... easter egg.... augh.

[Con]

i also think its a terrible idea to have a pistol as a starting weapon, because its one of the 3 (or 4, depends on the use of it) overused weapons in a map.

Actually, spawning with a pistol helps even out the playing field. You're just going to get spawn camped if you don't spawn with one.

[El Lobo]

Removing the pistol as a starting weapon would kill the balance of a map; as long as everyone starts with one they are starting with the best weapon in the game. Sure there are some people that are more talented with the pistol, but that's what practice is for.

EDIT: what con said

:lobo:

[Donut]

aaaand is that not when the layout of the map comes into play? if you can get spawn camped in the first place and not be able to do anything about it, then theres a bit of a problem. one weapon should definitly not be the only thing everybody uses.

and if people dont spawn with the pistol, where is the whole other team going to get one to spawn camp you?

[Advancebo]

maybe you guys should treat the pistol as a sniper in your custom maps.
limit it.
limit the ammo.
and lower the respawn rate...

smaller clip size/total ammo and lowered rate of fire would be better.

[jcap]

Actually, spawning with a pistol helps even out the playing field. You're just going to get spawn camped if you don't spawn with one.
And that's one reason Halo 3 blows. If you start with short range weapons, good luck even getting anywhere out of your base OR to cover if you're being spawn camped. While the other team has battle rifles and snipers which spawn in the field, all you have is your shitty assault rifle.

[Inferno]

And that's one reason Halo 3 blows. If you start with short range weapons, good luck even getting anywhere out of your base OR to cover if you're being spawn camped. While the other team has battle rifles and snipers which spawn in the field, all you have is your shitty assault rifle.

That's why I quit if there is no BR spawn.

[blind]

Halo with classic weapons is very very very balanced. Learn to shoot you fags.

[Inferno]

The xbox version was better balanced than the PC version. The AR was actually useful and the PR was amazing.

[blind]

The xbox version was better balanced than the PC version. The AR was actually useful and the PR was amazing.
thats only because of the netcode. PR and PP would rape shit if it wasn't for the netcode, and AR is amazing you must suck ??

[sevlag]

Actually, spawning with a pistol helps even out the playing field. You're just going to get spawn camped if you don't spawn with one.
yeah but in the long run you'll still have campers who try to camp with some sort of weapon, and if any one even tampers with the pistol in MP people bitch "oh i cant 3sk anymore, this map sucks ass"

it kind of sickens me to see the pistol overused, i mean i can use it to a decent extent, but with the use of it, every map that comes out now i fell should just have pistols, snipers and rockets, because thats all i ever see used or a battle rifle if its on the map,

camping is an issue that will never cease to exist no matter how much a mapper tries and its sort of impossible to do what gears of war does with giving the player anbout 5 seconds of invincibility just in case they end up getting spawn camped (annex and guardian)

[blind]

yeah but in the long run you'll still have campers who try to camp with some sort of weapon, and if any one even tampers with the pistol in MP people bitch "oh i cant 3sk anymore, this map sucks ass"

it kind of sickens me to see the pistol overused, i mean i can use it to a decent extent, but with the use of it, every map that comes out now i fell should just have pistols, snipers and rockets, because thats all i ever see used or a battle rifle if its on the map,

camping is an issue that will never cease to exist no matter how much a mapper tries and its sort of impossible to do what gears of war does with giving the player anbout 5 seconds of invincibility just in case they end up getting spawn camped (annex and guardian)
you're dumb.
Pistol is fucking key to this game, everyone has one and if you can't use it then you're fucked. Treat it like your baby and never let it leave your reach. If you can't use it as well as everyone else don't play the game, simple as that. Seriously. Make a fucking map without a pistol if you don't want it that bad, or better yet just play another game and rid your presence from this golden oldie.

[sevlag]

you're dumb.
Pistol is fucking key to this game, everyone has one and if you can't use it then you're fucked. Treat it like your baby and never let it leave your reach. If you can't use it as well as everyone else don't play the game, simple as that. Seriously. Make a fucking map without a pistol if you don't want it that bad, or better yet just play another game and rid your presence from this golden oldie.
its a side arm and shouldn't have the stopping power it does...

and seriously, you're kinda sounding pissed i'm down talking the pistol...grow up, I understand that its the only thing people use because they think its "pro" but when 9/10 times all i hear is the "clink clink clink" or whatever the sound the magnum makes it kinda grows tiresome

also, E rage much blind?

[Higuy]

its a side arm and shouldn't have the stopping power it does...

and seriously, you're kinda sounding pissed i'm down talking the pistol...grow up, I understand that its the only thing people use because they think its "pro" but when 9/10 times all i hear is the "clink clink clink" or whatever the sound the magnum makes it kinda grows tiresome

also, E rage much blind?
You don't really get it. The pistol is one of the most key parts in the game's gameplay nowadays, so its a key essential to have it. You still need the other weapons, Blind's right, the pp and pr would rape if it wasn't for the netcode. The assult rifle and other weapons are still needed, they help balance the map out as well.

[sevlag]

You don't really get it. The pistol is one of the most key parts in the game's gameplay nowadays, so its a key essential to have it. You still need the other weapons, Blind's right, the pp and pr would rape if it wasn't for the netcode. The assult rifle and other weapons are still needed, they help balance the map out as well.
...i said i understand that, but i see it, along with snipers, and rockets way too much...

the plasma rifle is great, i can normally get a + K/D ratio if i can get close enough without getting 3sk'd, but from my point of view people don't even give the other weapons a second thought as they ditch their AR or what not for some other weapon, be it sniper, rockets, shotgun, or fuel rod...

believe me I ditch the pistol for something else normally, i don't like to use it but if I have to (ex. AR clip is dry and im getting shot at) I will use the pistol... but i still see it and will continue to, as a side arm that is shouldn't be that strong or atleast have a somewhat bigger recoil to the pistol in between each round fired (think halo 3 pistol with halo 1 scope, its till a 3sk, but it has a recoil that sorta makes it alittle less deadly)

I'm just honestly sick and tired of being picked off by it, and/or being swarmed by 3 or 4 people wielding it, which basically means im fucked when it happens.




and for those who think i should uninstall halo because i have a dislike for the side arm are nothing more than overzealous pistol users

[Higuy]

when your getting attacked by 4 people, thats when the bsp comes into play with the cover. if map has zero cover, then the map and its geometry and layout was obviously not thought out very well. you should still learn to use the pistol, becuase the pistol is still a good part of the game. the ar is still used often, (even i use it and still get kills with it), its just how you use it. same with the pistol. All of the weapons in this game are here for a reason, and play out how they do for a reason. to be honest with you, the halo tagset is very very balanced, its just how it plays out on the map.

[sevlag]

when your getting attacked by 4 people, thats when the bsp comes into play with the cover. if map has zero cover, then the map and its geometry and layout was obviously not thought out very well. you should still learn to use the pistol, becuase the pistol is still a good part of the game. the ar is still used often, (even i use it and still get kills with it), its just how you use it. same with the pistol. All of the weapons in this game are here for a reason, and play out how they do for a reason. to be honest with you, the halo tagset is very very balanced, its just how it plays out on the map.
the thing is since no one really plays anything other than coldsnap and blood gulch now a days ( not a crowded snow grove server in sight)

9/10 out of times i get ganged on blood gulch trying the average "lets run down the middle or off to the side) it just frustrates me due to the fact that one team or another just hunkers down and picks anyone off not on their team from basically the other side of the map, this is most common on the hill on bloodgulch, just close to red teleporter and cover is sorta useless if i get rocketed or nade spammed which is ANOTHER common death for me...

on snow grove there is alot more cover and i was able to avoid multiple enemies wielding the pistol

I completely understand the weapons are there for a reason and to some extent the weapons are balanced, but i really cant remember when i wasnt killed by the pistol or sniper or by someone who "only used the AR because their pistol was out of ammo"

as I said before if I have to use it, then i will, but not to the excessive extent other people do, I'll stick with the assault rifle and the plasma rifle 98% of the time and if i have to use the pistol for whatever reason then i'll use it only if i have no other choice or my primary is dry

[kid908]

If you get swam by 4 people, there's something called grenades. Also in halo, there is no such thing as a side arm. You only see it as a side arm because it's in the shape of a side arm. Pretty much all weapons are interchangable. I think all you need to do to make the pistol "balance" is take out the scope and leave it the same. Halo 2 magnum dual wield is more effective than smg dual wield, but you don't see people overusing it.


The battle rifle is the halo 1 pistol. You can be picked off as easily and has the same amount of shots. It's a 4 shot kill if I remember correctly, so it's just H1 pistol in a rifle form. 12 shot, 1.5x zoom, 3-5 shot kill.

[blind]

Sidearm?
Video game?
Say what. Who the fuck cares what (irl) its meant to be used as. Seriously you're fucking retarded if you confine yourself by what the weapon was MEANT to be used as. Stop dissing pistolers since you can't play the fucking game. Learn to use cover, learn to shoot.. learn to play kid. If you don't like the most key weapon in the game, don't play little scrub. Play TF2 or some other retarded game like that.

[sevlag]

If you get swam by 4 people, there's something called grenades. Also in halo, there is no such thing as a side arm. You only see it as a side arm because it's in the shape of a side arm. Pretty much all weapons are interchangable. I think all you need to do to make the pistol "balance" is take out the scope and leave it the same. Halo 2 magnum dual wield is more effective than smg dual wield, but you don't see people overusing it.


The battle rifle is the halo 1 pistol. You can be picked off as easily and has the same amount of shots.i noprmally use the grenades up to deter them from attacking me from a distance and to give me time to get wthin range to attack with a AR or PR

the reason why the halo 2 magnum was rarely used (except in swat) was because even though it was fast, it lacked the punch of the halo 1 pistol and people just saw it as some other piece of weapon lying on the ground...

the halo 2 battle rifle WAS basically the halo 1 pistol, but since there really was no variety in how people killed( rockets, sniper, BR, sword, and more often than not the noob combo) i rarely came across another plasma rifle (note SINGLE, not duel wielded with an SMG) I also prefered the carbine over the BR as it was sort of a more balanced weapon (and in halo 3 it turned out to be alittle stronger than the BR[if you were fast enough with it])

and blind you're overzealous with the pistol and seem to get angry whenever someone downplays it, these are my views and im entitled to whatever complaint i have with the pistol, you're flying off the handle because of these views i have towards it and it makes me think of you as someone who just thinks poorly of anyone who doesn't use it as excessively as you do

[Rosco]

Sidearm?
Video game?
Say what. Who the fuck cares what (irl) its meant to be used as. Seriously you're fucking retarded if you confine yourself by what the weapon was MEANT to be used as. Stop dissing pistolers since you can't play the fucking game. Learn to use cover, learn to shoot.. learn to play kid. If you don't like the most key weapon in the game, don't play little scrub. Play TF2 or some other retarded game like that.

Although I like TF2

Blind here has a massive point.

Good luck playing halo without the key gun.

[sevlag]

Good luck playing halo without the key gun.

i can play it without the key gun thank you very much, a kill death spread is nothing more than numbers, as long as i overall enoy the game and the fun outwieghs whatever gripes i have with the pistol then i will continue to play, you can pistol whore me to death but that won't really "get my goat" so to speak

[blind]

and blind you're overzealous with the pistol and seem to get angry whenever someone downplays it, these are my views and im entitled to whatever complaint i have with the pistol, you're flying off the handle because of these views i have towards it and it makes me think of you as someone who just thinks poorly of anyone who doesn't use it as excessively as you do
I am not overzealous by any means. I just use whatever gun I feel like using at any point in time. I'm that fucking good at the game that it doesn't matter what gun I use, I'll fucking destroy you no matter what. Get over yourself, oh my god! you don't use the pistol! Your loss you little baddie. You're just limiting your potential success at this game by about 95%.

[Rosco]

i can play it without the key gun thank you very much, a kill death spread is nothing more than numbers, as long as i overall enoy the game and the fun outwieghs whatever gripes i have with the pistol then i will continue to play, you can pistol whore me to death but that won't really "get my goat" so to speak

mmm.

Oh I get it. You play your Halo that way then, I'll, and I guess a lot of others will just constantly beat you.
I should mention that I don't just pistol, there are absolute rape combos in this game which makes it incredably better. Aswell as hogs :-3

[TVTyrant]

Pistol is the only useful gun on Blood Gulch, the only map that gets played :-3

I guess theres the Fail Rod too, but thats not the point. If you dont use the pistol, your pretty much fucked :realsmug:

[blind]

Pistol is the only useful gun on Blood Gulch, the only map that gets played :-3

I guess theres the Fail Rod too, but thats not the point. If you dont use the pistol, your pretty much fucked :realsmug:
Sniper is greatly useful. Assault rifle, shotgun. You just can't go guns blazing if you don't use pistol. You have to use a little strategy, use the hills. God damn people are terrible at this game.

[sevlag]

mmm.

Oh I get it. You play your Halo that way then, I'll, and I guess a lot of others will just constantly beat you.
and your point is rosco, cool great i'll get beaten more often than not, big whoop..

i could whore the pistol too but what im saying is i choose not to as i see it as another sniper rifle, only everybody has it and no one fights over who gets to use it or wait by the spawn point for it

[kid908]

I usually have a horrible combo, at least in other's eye. I use sniper and shotgun in bloodgulch. The shotgun is usually used against shee whores. If I can't get a sniper, I sub it with a pistol. It's not that bad if you learn to avoid the shots.

Halo is becoming/has become a straight run and shoot game. Not much strat is used anymore

[blind]

and your point is rosco, cool great i'll get beaten more often than not, big whoop..

i could whore the pistol too but what im saying is i choose not to as i see it as another sniper rifle, only everybody has it and no one fights over who gets to use it or wait by the spawn point for it
okay dude. Have fun dying constantly because you don't want to use a gun because it doesn't match its real world usage. No worries.

[Rosco]

and your point is rosco, cool great i'll get beaten more often than not, big whoop..

i could whore the pistol too but what im saying is i choose not to as i see it as another sniper rifle, only everybody has it and no one fights over who gets to use it or wait by the spawn point for it

Don't contradict yourself dude, if losing isn't a big deal, than neither is a futuristic pistol.

[sevlag]

both rosco and blind, you two seem to be obessed with the fact i don't like to use it and you're responses has come down to "have fun being killed alot of times faggot"

i am not contradicting myself, your take on my posts are skewed at best because all you seem to see are me taking a negative point of view on the pistol and how i play the game, i don't and never will expect halo to be realistic, but i don't like the fact that the key gun in the game is a pistol that behaves like a rifle and a rifle that is nothing more than a large SMG

to be very honest in terms of looking at realism in halo (gasp) the plasma rifle behaves as more of a rifle (somewhat) and the plasma pistol acts more like a pistol, now if the plasma pistol were to behave like the human one, being a 3sk and the human pistol behaving like the plasma pistol, then everyone would use the plasma pistol and fore go the magnum altogether

and if i've missed anything in this post then i'll supplement it in a second post or an edit

[blind]

both rosco and blind, you two seem to be obessed with the fact i don't like to use it and you're responses has come down to "have fun being killed alot of times faggot"

i am not contradicting myself, your take on my posts are skewed at best because all you seem to see are me taking a negative point of view on the pistol and how i play the game, i don't and never will expect halo to be realistic, but i don't like the fact that the key gun in the game is a pistol that behaves like a rifle and a rifle that is nothing more than a large SMG

to be very honest in terms of looking at realism in halo (gasp) the plasma rifle behaves as more of a rifle (somewhat) and the plasma pistol acts more like a pistol, now if the plasma pistol were to behave like the human one, being a 3sk and the human pistol behaving like the plasma pistol, then everyone would use the plasma pistol and fore go the magnum altogether

and if i've missed anything in this post then i'll supplement it in a second post or an edit
Um. I just find it compltely fucking retarded you're disregarding a gun because it isn't realistic. Even though the game is based 5 centuries in the future and is a fucking video game.

[sevlag]

Pistol is the only useful gun on Blood Gulch, the only map that gets played :-3

I guess theres the Fail Rod too, but thats not the point. If you dont use the pistol, your pretty much fucked :realsmug:

so i guess im fucked then

and blind i know its not realistic (no one seems to read those points though) but if all you use is a pistol then

maybe i should ust start whoring the pistol, forego any weaponm that doesn't 3sk..which is basically your logic

[blind]

so i guess im fucked then

and blind i know its not realistic (no one seems to read those points though) but if all you use is a pistol then

maybe i should ust start whoring the pistol, forego any weaponm that doesn't 3sk..which is basically your logic
No.
I don't only use the pistol, lol. I use whatever weapon is best suited for the situation.
AR/Shotgun/Pistol/Sniper/Rox/FRG for vehicles.
Pistol/AR/Shotgun/Sniper for close range.
Pistol/Sniper for long range.
I'll even use a PP to take out an OS if I can find one in time.
The thing is, I'm fucking ridiculous with the pistol so clearly I'm going to use it most of the time.
I say learn to play the game :)

[sevlag]

No.
I don't only use the pistol, lol. I use whatever weapon is best suited for the situation.
AR/Shotgun/Pistol/Sniper/Rox/FRG for vehicles.
Pistol/AR/Shotgun/Sniper for close range.
Pistol/Sniper for long range.
I'll even use a PP to take out an OS if I can find one in time.
The thing is, I'm fucking ridiculous with the pistol so clearly I'm going to use it most of the time.
I say learn to play the game :)thing is i dont spend endless hours playing as i dont have constant access to computer nor do mommy and daddy buy me things, they stopped doing it when i hit 13

im not saying your folks buy you everything, i'm saying im not a rich bastard like the rest of you who have high end comps nor do i play as much as you when it comes to CE (hopefully that changes soon)
i've learned to play the game,but my method is one you see as stupid

like i said, i'll just start whoring the pistol and give a big ol "fuck you" to every weapon that doesnt have a scope on it

[blind]

thing is i dont spend endless hours playing as i dont have constant access to computer nor do mommy and daddy buy me things, they stopped doing it when i hit 13

im not saying your folks buy you everything, i'm saying im not a rich bastard like the rest of you who have high end comps nor do i play as much as you when it comes to CE (hopefully that changes soon)
i've learned to play the game,but my method is one you see as stupid

like i said, i'll just start whoring the pistol and give a big ol "fuck you" to every weapon that doesnt have a scope on it
It didn't take me long at all to master the game, I was constantly achieving first place within a couple days of me getting the game. I didn't and still don't have a high end comp. And I hardly play the game. I'm never even at home usually, but as soon as I join a server I start shooting and I just flow through kills like water.

ps did you compltely disregard my post?

[Rosco]

both rosco and blind, you two seem to be obessed with the fact i don't like to use it and you're responses has come down to "have fun being killed alot of times_______ "

i am not contradicting myself, your take on my posts are skewed at best because all you seem to see are me taking a negative point of view on the pistol and how i play the game, i don't and never will expect halo to be realistic, but i don't like the fact that the key gun in the game is a pistol that behaves like a rifle and a rifle that is nothing more than a large SMG



I'll disreguard the personal attack you think I'm trying to put on you, but I'm not. While if you think about it, hey yeah, a pistol, that rapes? Sounds odd doesn't it? But so far in the future a gun so compact and small that packs a punch doesn't seem out of place. If you reguard it as a sidearm then you're completely wrong.

Btw dude you basically did just contradict yourself then, but disreguard that too because it doesn't matter. :)

[sevlag]

I'll disreguard the personal attack you think I'm trying to put on you, but I'm not. While if you think about it, hey yeah, a pistol, that rapes? Sounds odd doesn't it? But so far in the future a gun so compact and small that packs a punch doesn't seem out of place. If you reguard it as a sidearm then you're completely wrong.

Btw dude you basically did just contradict yourself then, but disreguard that too because it doesn't matter. :)
if itsfuture, then why the don't they have laser weapons? if they can make a suit of armor with an energy shielding system, then where the hell are the super lasers and other laser guns

i'm just gonna pistol whore from now on...whatever

fuck you AR,PR,PP,shotgun,and whatever DOESN'T have a scope

and if you honestly thought i was attacking you then you're alittle stuck up ros

and to blind: the reason you get so many kills is the center of this little debate that has lasted i think 2 pages going into 3

[blind]

if itsfuture, then why the don't they have laser weapons? if they can make a suit of armor with an energy shielding system, then where the hell are the super lasers and other laser guns

i'm just gonna pistol whore from now on...whatever

fuck you AR,PR,PP,shotgun,and whatever DOESN'T have a scope

and if you honestly thought i was attacking you then you're alittle stuck up



ps did you compltely disregard my post?

I think so.

[Terry]

both rosco and blind, you two seem to be obessed with the fact i don't like to use it and you're responses has come down to "have fun being killed alot of times faggot"

i am not contradicting myself, your take on my posts are skewed at best because all you seem to see are me taking a negative point of view on the pistol and how i play the game, i don't and never will expect halo to be realistic, but i don't like the fact that the key gun in the game is a pistol that behaves like a rifle and a rifle that is nothing more than a large SMG


So then what do you want? Would you prefer if we remodelled the pistol into a rifle?



to be very honest in terms of looking at realism in halo (gasp) the plasma rifle behaves as more of a rifle (somewhat) and the plasma pistol acts more like a pistol, now if the plasma pistol were to behave like the human one, being a 3sk and the human pistol behaving like the plasma pistol, then everyone would use the plasma pistol and fore go the magnum altogether

and if i've missed anything in this post then i'll supplement it in a second post or an edit
So if the plasma pistol were as strong as the human pistol, we'd use it instead? Ok.

[Rosco]

if itsfuture, then why the don't they have laser weapons? if they can make a suit of armor with an energy shielding system, then where the hell are the super lasers and other laser guns

i'm just gonna pistol whore from now on...whatever

fuck you AR,PR,PP,shotgun,and whatever DOESN'T have a scope

I didn't say you were attacking me,

It's in Halo 3. :O

[sevlag]

I think so.
nope i read through it, i've been thorough in read each post that you, rosco and every person voicing their opinion on the matter

and you seemed to miss the point i made...

in halo they have managed to:

make space ships that are capable of traveling at faster than that of the speed of light

make suits of armor that contain an energy shielding system

make suits of armor that are able to blend into surroundings like a chameleon

make a compact sniper housed in a pistol's frame


yet they still use ballistic weapons that rely on chemical and other current day means of firing weapons...


I'll disreguard the personal attack

ya rly




So if the plasma pistol were as strong as the human pistol, we'd use it instead? Ok.
basically, if the damage output of the weapons were to be switched people would start using the plasma pistol alot more frequently, so yes players WOULD use it as much, if not more than the magnum


So then what do you want? Would you prefer if we remodelled the pistol into a rifle?
could you? it make it alot more bearable for me if it was

[Ganon]

hey guys I heard there is a pistol in cs:s that will kill you in 1 shot :U

[Gwunty]

nope i read through it, i've been thorough in read each post that you, rosco and every person voicing their opinion on the matter

and you seemed to miss the point i made...

in halo they have managed to:

make space ships that are capable of traveling at faster than that of the speed of light

make suits of armor that contain an energy shielding system

make suits of armor that are able to blend into surroundings like a chameleon

make a compact sniper housed in a pistol's frame


yet they still use ballistic weapons that rely on chemical and other current day means of firing weapons...
Umm its a video game, and a sci fi one, im 100% sure its not supposed to make sense.


ya rly


basically, if the damage output of the weapons were to be switched people would start using the plasma pistol alot more frequently, so yes players WOULD use it as much, if not more than the magnum
Yhea your point is? I don't even see why your arguing over something as stupid as this shit, your not going to win and even if you do your not going to magically have the pistol removed from halo.


could you? it make it alot more bearable for me if it was
Your stupid, and your entire post is also stupid :maddowns:

My responses in bold. :iamafag:

[El Lobo]

People who run around with AR's in Halo are idiots. Embrace the pistol for what it is and get adept with it. The only people who bitch about it suck at Halo.

:lobo:

[kid908]

nope i read through it, i've been thorough in read each post that you, rosco and every person voicing their opinion on the matter

and you seemed to miss the point i made...

in halo they have managed to:

make space ships that are capable of traveling at faster than that of the speed of light

make suits of armor that contain an energy shielding system

make suits of armor that are able to blend into surroundings like a chameleon

make a compact sniper housed in a pistol's frame


yet they still use ballistic weapons that rely on chemical and other current day means of firing weapons...

Ever thought that maybe a physical object can penetrate better than beam of focused lights?

FTL isn't military exclusive. It was developed to go between colonies in a shorter amount of time.

Spartan project was used to make a better soldier, not weapon and is more on biological side anyways.

Bullets dynamic could have change. The ignition powder could have change.

Bullets are more accurate than plasma in all scifi shows and games I've seen. It also doesn't rely on battery and is inexpensive to make. When it comes down to it, funding and money comes into play on whether to use new technology or rely on old but upgraded tech.

[Futzy]

Bullets are more accurate than plasma in all scifi shows and games I've seen.
Because games and movies define what plasma is capable of.
Designers can make anything that isn't real do anything they want.

[sevlag]

hey guys I heard there is a pistol in cs:s that will kill you in 1 shot :U
thats cause you have no shields...don't be a smart ass


My responses in bold. :iamafag:... i see a personal attack in there >.>

yeah i know not using <weapon A> will remove it from <game> yet when i try to explain you just all go "hurr he dun use pistol" you only look for those parts in my posts

and whatever im just going to whore the pistol and all scoped weapons in the future, fuck anything else

[Rosco]

Sev you're not reading the whole thing, I said I'll disreguard the personal attack YOU THINK I'M IMPLYING.

:)

[blind]

its okay that you're terrible at halo sevlag, just dont take it out on the pistol. deal with your own problems [:

[Con]

its a side arm and shouldn't have the stopping power it does...


...i said i understand that, but i see it, along with snipers, and rockets way too much...

the plasma rifle is great, i can normally get a + K/D ratio if i can get close enough without getting 3sk'd, but from my point of view people don't even give the other weapons a second thought as they ditch their AR or what not for some other weapon, be it sniper, rockets, shotgun, or fuel rod...

believe me I ditch the pistol for something else normally, i don't like to use it but if I have to (ex. AR clip is dry and im getting shot at) I will use the pistol... but i still see it and will continue to, as a side arm that is shouldn't be that strong or atleast have a somewhat bigger recoil to the pistol in between each round fired (think halo 3 pistol with halo 1 scope, its till a 3sk, but it has a recoil that sorta makes it alittle less deadly)


Here's how Halo works: The pistol is your primary weapon and the AR is your sidearm. The point behind spawning with a pistol is that you have a chance to deal with whatever is coming to your base, and later on having a pistol means you can deal with almost everything coming at you. However, the pistol is not the be all and end all in all circumstances.

The other weapons in the map are there to fill in the gaps. The game's balanced because you give everyone a weapon with which they can tackle most situations, but the secondary weapon is there to do certain jobs. Spawning with the AR as secondary is great because you're filling in the gap of close range weapon. If you want a more effective one, get the shotgun--or if you want to take out vehicles or make a few quick kills, get the RL. The bottom line is that you'll always have a pistol with you as a good all-around weapon. The other weapons were never meant to be primaries, so carry a pistol for most things then carry secondary weapons for certain tasks.

edit: I think the general ineffectiveness of plasma weapons comes from SP. You can't give the AI a bunch of weapons with projectiles you can't see. Slow traveling plasma you can dodge, and you can see where it's coming from without any thought. Now only does this help new players, but it's a confidence booster to some players. You can charge in guns blazing, dodging plasma like it's the matrix, and feeling superior to the AI. Bungie's trying to make a fun game here. I'm not saying the plasma weapons have no use at all in MP, it's just that they shouldn't be used anywhere other than close quarters. They have the advantage of taking down shields quickly, and then you pull out your primary weapon and finish them off.

[sevlag]

Sev you're not reading the whole thing, I said I'll disreguard the personal attack YOU THINK I'M IMPLYING.

:)
technically this whole shitfest has been one big attack on my way of playing halo, not just you, but basically everyone here has said and this is a summary "hurr you''re stupid cause you bun use pistol, you're a faggot nub, uninstall halo durr"

thats what it amounts to and i've already said fuck it to the weapons i've used since late 06 early 07 yeah lets throw that all out the window and i'll just straight up use pistol, fuck being able to use a plasma rifle and assault rifle properly, i'll just snipe people from long range with my scoped deagle


its okay that you're terrible at halo sevlag, just dont take it out on the pistol. deal with your own problems [:
its ok you're a complete and total ass, i'm sure alot (<-sarcasm) of people out there like you because of it..i mean its not your fault you act like a spoiled kid, its you mommy and daddy's fault

[El Lobo]

I like Blind.

:lobo:

[blind]

its ok you're a complete and total ass, i'm sure alot (<-sarcasm) of people out there like you because of it..i mean its not your fault you act like a spoiled kid, its you mommy and daddy's fault
What? I'm sorry that you don't like the pistol dude but don't take it out on me.
I don't act like a spoiled kid either, I'm amazing at halo and I know it. No matter what weapon I use, I am god at this game. You can't handle that and are trying to ostracize the game's most versatile weapon for some reason. Read Con's post, its basically what I've been saying the whole time just a little more diplomatically worded. Hope that helps.

~love blind.

edit. i love el lobo with all ma hart

[sevlag]

i can keep this up, but chances are the moment i sign off 3 pages of personal attacks against my playing style will pop-up and when i go nd report those posts which contain a personal (see elephants) and I do report it it just falls on deaf ears

whatever it just comes down to im just using pistol and other scoped weapons from now on because the rest are shit and just fillers on map so it looks like you have a choice in the matter


What? I'm sorry that you don't like the pistol dude but don't take it out on me.


have you even re-red you're posts, FFS if rosco says im contradicting myself you're doing it 10 times as bad

i don't really, and i mean REALLY don't give two shits if you're good at that game blind, i really don't

[blind]

http://joyceagojo.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/elephants_spreads021.jpg
??

[sevlag]

shitty picture with elephants
??

sorry, wrong user, CLS_Grunt, page 8, halfway near the bottom..


Your stupid

last part in bold

[Rosco]

have you even re-red you're posts, FFS if rosco says im contradicting myself you're doing it 10 times as bad

i don't really, and i mean REALLY don't give two shits if you're good at that game blind, i really don't

I think what you don't notice is that we ALL think you would have more/play a lot better if you used the gun most maps are strategized with. Which, I'm guessing is because you feel forced into doing, has come out of this.

Don't sum our posts up into things we haven't said or done though.. :smith:

[El Lobo]

Pretty impressive elephant picture Blind.

:lobo:

[blind]

there are only two pages in this thread

[Rosco]

I care about balance. :saddowns:

My maps are awesome. Play them. Do it.

No. :saddowns:

The pit remake is cool though.

[blind]

i don't really, and i mean REALLY don't give two shits if you're good at that game blind, i really don't
Ill re-red my posts and get back to you then.

[sevlag]

... because you feel forced into doing, has come out of this.


congrats ros you've hit the nail on the head basically i dont give a fuck about a weapon that is "key to getting a good kill death ratio"...but whatever you guys obviously want me to whore the pistol like the rest of you...fine


<kiss ass post>

[Rosco]

congrats ros you've hit the nail on the head basically i dont give a fuck about a weapon that is "key to getting a good kill death ratio"...but whatever you guys obviously want me to whore the pistol like the rest of you...fine

The ratio isn't what we're talking about. You get the ratio because you succeed. Unless you're kitsune or something. :haw:

[blind]

http://joyceagojo.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/elephants_spreads021.jpg
??
there are only two pages in this thread
you're dumb.
Pistol is fucking key to this game, everyone has one and if you can't use it then you're fucked. Treat it like your baby and never let it leave your reach. If you can't use it as well as everyone else don't play the game, simple as that. Seriously. Make a fucking map without a pistol if you don't want it that bad, or better yet just play another game and rid your presence from this golden oldie.
thats only because of the netcode. PR and PP would rape shit if it wasn't for the netcode, and AR is amazing you must suck ??
Halo with classic weapons is very very very balanced. Learn to shoot you fags.
Sidearm?
Video game?
Say what. Who the fuck cares what (irl) its meant to be used as. Seriously you're fucking retarded if you confine yourself by what the weapon was MEANT to be used as. Stop dissing pistolers since you can't play the fucking game. Learn to use cover, learn to shoot.. learn to play kid. If you don't like the most key weapon in the game, don't play little scrub. Play TF2 or some other retarded game like that.
I am not overzealous by any means. I just use whatever gun I feel like using at any point in time. I'm that fucking good at the game that it doesn't matter what gun I use, I'll fucking destroy you no matter what. Get over yourself, oh my god! you don't use the pistol! Your loss you little baddie. You're just limiting your potential success at this game by about 95%.
Sniper is greatly useful. Assault rifle, shotgun. You just can't go guns blazing if you don't use pistol. You have to use a little strategy, use the hills. God damn people are terrible at this game.
okay dude. Have fun dying constantly because you don't want to use a gun because it doesn't match its real world usage. No worries.
Um. I just find it compltely fucking retarded you're disregarding a gun because it isn't realistic. Even though the game is based 5 centuries in the future and is a fucking video game.
No.
I don't only use the pistol, lol. I use whatever weapon is best suited for the situation.
AR/Shotgun/Pistol/Sniper/Rox/FRG for vehicles.
Pistol/AR/Shotgun/Sniper for close range.
Pistol/Sniper for long range.
I'll even use a PP to take out an OS if I can find one in time.
The thing is, I'm fucking ridiculous with the pistol so clearly I'm going to use it most of the time.
I say learn to play the game :)
It didn't take me long at all to master the game, I was constantly achieving first place within a couple days of me getting the game. I didn't and still don't have a high end comp. And I hardly play the game. I'm never even at home usually, but as soon as I join a server I start shooting and I just flow through kills like water.

ps did you compltely disregard my post?

I think so.
its okay that you're terrible at halo sevlag, just dont take it out on the pistol. deal with your own problems [:
better?

[El Lobo]

You mad sev?

:lobo:

[sevlag]

The ratio isn't what we're talking about. You get the ratio because you succeed. Unless you're kitsune or something. :haw:
it is, and i'm not a fox as you're suggesting...basically when you say "you'll do better if you use <weapon A> inadvertently means if you use it you'll have a better K/D ratio if you had used <weapon B,C, or D>

@ blind, now is where i pick out the insults you've directed towards me


rid your presence from this golden oldie.
basically telling me i'm no good and i should uninstall halo


Seriously you're fucking retarded
never heard that one before /sarcasm


ps did you compltely disregard my post?
not that big of an insult, but you basically said "you don't read faggot"


you little baddie
so i'm terribad because i don't whore like you?


learn to play the game
I have, you just view my way of playing as the wrong one and you're method is the only right one there is


its okay that you're terrible at halo sevlag
it really came down to this...wow, no originality


You mad sev?

not at all, as you've noticed i've been quiet calm for most of the posts, the only time i've used vulgarity is when i said that i'd no longer use weapons that didn't have a scope

[NullZero]

you're so witty sevlag, I should kill myself.

though seriously, be the bigger man and walk away mb

[Rosco]

it is, and i'm not a fox as you're suggesting...basically when you say "you'll do better if you use <weapon A> inadvertently means if you use it you'll have a better K/D ratio if you had used <weapon B,C, or D>


Not in my opinion. I believe using a pistol combination and thereof is just the better way of playing, chances are you have something to stop everything, with a shottie and pistol, either will pop shields and finish off with. You can stop hogs, medium range, close range, long range with that combination.

If you're using AR and shotgun you are fucked.

K/D comes out of how skilled you are, not the combos or weapons.

[blind]

it is, and i'm not a fox as you're suggesting...basically when you say "you'll do better if you use <weapon A> inadvertently means if you use it you'll have a better K/D ratio if you had used <weapon B,C, or D>

@ blind, now is where i pick out the insults you've directed towards me


basically telling me i'm no good and i should uninstall halo


never heard that one before /sarcasm


not that big of an insult, but you basically said "you don't read faggot"


so i'm terribad because i don't whore like you?


I have, you just view my way of playing as the wrong one and you're method is the only right one there is


it really came down to this...wow, no originality


not at all, as you've noticed i've been quiet calm for most of the posts, the only time i've used vulgarity is when i said that i'd no longer use weapons that didn't have a scope
are you seriously that dumb. lmfao.
Okay, first off all of those lines were contextually based. Therefore they have no meaning without the rest of the post. Games are played to have fun, right. You have fun by either fucking around all the time or winning. I really don't see how you can derive any enjoyment out of it by getting killed all the time because you yourself choose not to use a certain weapon because its labeled as a pistol.. Thats the ONLY reason you aren't using it. Because its called a pistol. You said it yourself.

Get the fuck over it and man up.

[sevlag]

K/D comes out of NOT how skilled you are, BUT the combos or weapons.sorry to edit your post rosco, but the K/D is also reliant on what weapons you use...

i could get a +40 K/D ratio but it came from rocket whoring, skill has some factor in it yes, but n the long run skill is secondary to the weapon

@bluflame, you're probably right, but the moment i walk away i'mone of these guys is gonna say something along the line of "lol fag", which is a general summary of anything if i were to let this debate die

[teh lag]

what the

i'll deal with this when i wake up tomorrow

THE NEXT DAY...

Having read this thread many times, I have decided to red many non-satisfactory posts.

Sev, just walk away next time.