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Rob Oplawar
August 19th, 2009, 11:28 AM
After my grandpa (who I am quite fond of, but he's the most obnoxiously far right person I know of) sent me this e-mail:


Ben Stein writes (who is Ben Stein? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Stein

The American Spectator

We've Figured Him Out
By Ben Stein

Why is President Barack Obama in such a hurry to get his socialized medicine bill passed?
Because he and his cunning circle realize some basic truths:
The American people in their unimaginable kindness and trust voted for a pig in a poke in 2008. They wanted so much to believe Barack Obama was somehow better and different from other ultra-leftists that they simply took him on faith.
They ignored his anti-white writings in his books. They ignored his quiet acceptance of hysterical anti-American diatribes by his minister, Jeremiah Wright.
They ignored his refusal to explain years at a time of his life as a student. They ignored his ultra-left record as a "community organizer," Illinois state legislator, and Senator.
The American people ignored his total zero of an academic record as a student and teacher, his complete lack of scholarship when he was being touted as a scholar.
Now, the American people are starting to wake up to the truth. Barack Obama is a super likeable super leftist, not a fan of this country, way, way too cozy with the terrorist leaders in the Middle East, way beyond naïveté, all the way into active destruction of our interests and our allies and our future.
The American people have already awakened to the truth that the stimulus bill -- a great idea in theory -- was really an immense bribe to Democrat interest groups, and in no way an effort to help all Americans.
Now, Americans are waking up to the truth that ObamaCare basically means that every time you are sick or injured, you will have a clerk from the Department of Motor Vehicles telling your doctor what he can and cannot do.
The American people already know that Mr. Obama's plan to lower health costs while expanding coverage and bureaucracy is a myth, a promise of something that never was and never will be -- a bureaucracy lowering costs in a free society. Either the costs go up or the free society goes away.
These are perilous times. Mrs. Hillary Clinton, our Secretary of State, has given Iran the go-ahead to have nuclear weapons, an unqualified betrayal of the nation. Now, we face a devastating loss of freedom at home in health care. It will be joined by controls on our lives to "protect us" from global warming, itself largely a fraud if believed to be caused by man.
Mr. Obama knows Americans are getting wise and will stop him if he delays at all in taking away our freedoms.
There is his urgency and our opportunity. Once freedom is lost, America is lost. Wake up, beloved America .
, I had to set the record straight. This is the reply I sent him:

http://i28.tinypic.com/2exslxe.jpg
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tinfoil+hat

Sorry, but I can't take any more of it. That's some of the most paranoid BS I've heard yet.
Sigh, political discussions always turn into a mud-flinging contest between the left and the right. I have to get it out of my system.

Barack Obama is a US citizen, he is not a communist nor a socialist, so-called "socialized" medicine will not destroy our health-care system, Obama is not a racist, he is not anti-American, he is far better spoken than George Bush (no criticism on President Bush, but I cite it as evidence that Barack Obama is not poorly educated as Stein implied), and he is not "cozy" with terrorists (perhaps he would have considered a more effective alternative than launching two long, painful wars in the middle-east).

And for the love of god, if you're going to compare government-run health-care to the DMV, stop and think for a moment about the fact that with the insurance we get from private companies comes the same plodding impolite bureaucracy you get from the DMV, and the fact that the private health-care bureaucracy is apallingly misregulated.

As for global warming, here's the deal: if pollution doesn't cause global warming, that doesn't mean pollution is fine and dandy now! The question is not directly "have we have caused the planet's temperature to go up?" but "are we having a negative impact on our environment such that it will cause major problems for us down the line if we continue at this rate?" to which the answer is a resounding "YES."

Stop talking about loss of freedom and privacy when the government tries to save us from a collapsing economy and failing industries, since our last president cited fear of terrorists as reason enough to cause more loss of freedom and privacy.

=sw=warlord
August 19th, 2009, 11:41 AM
That's gotta be the most bigot' email i've seen in quite some time.
Hillary clinton givin iran the go ahead on nukes?
Ahahaha that's one rich joke, last i heard america was not incharge of the UN security council only a large influence and it is the UN security council that have been trying to stop iran from having said weapons.

sdavis117
August 19th, 2009, 11:44 AM
You do know that Tin Foil has actually been proven to increase Government Mind Control on the wearer, right?

jcap
August 19th, 2009, 12:31 PM
I still think what we need is NOT universal healthcare, but just health care reform in general.

The problem with health care today is that people can't afford it. You have to pay $150 just to show up at the doctor's office when you're sick just so they can tell you that you're sick. It costs hundreds of dollars for stuff which you'll only use once, for things that can be made out of nothing more than simple household supplies. An ankle brace/boot for my sister (you know, the plastic boot thing with padding) was about $250. We had to pay about $50, while insurance covered the rest. That plastic piece of shit was never worth the cost. Even so, we have a $20,000/yr policy, so it's pathetic that the entire cost wasn't covered. Recently, we got fed up and decided to drop down to a lesser costing plan, when we found out that there were things under our previous one that we had things covered under our old plan that we had NO IDEA of. For instance, we had drug coverage. Well, we don't get any drugs, and we have never used it, so we were just wasting money on that. Aside from paying for something useless, they never even informed us of what we were covered for until we looked back at the updated plans again!

What they need to do is allow hundreds of smaller insurance companies to start up across the entire country, and allow us to go out of state to buy a policy that fits our needs. It would drive up major competition and give the consumer the power. If I live in NJ, and there's a plan in Arizona that has doctor visits, immunizations/vaccines, and ER covered for a better price than what I can get in NJ, then I want to be able to reach out and get that plan. I'm not paying for unnecessary things I will never use, and I'm not screwed by paying more for one identical plan over another.

Then, there's also the problem with the retarded fucking doctors themselves. They are the ones who are a major problem with the current system. You can go to their office, pay $150 to just show up, then they start doing stuff for you without even asking first. You can end up with a $750 bill in the mail for stuff you didn't even know you were being billed for. The doctors should be liable for the cost. If they do something that you never approved of, then they need to eat the bill. Then there's the MISTAKES that they make all the time with billing. Plus, the miscommunication between doctors and insurance companies is even worse. The doctors will say one thing, then the insurance company will say something else, and in the end, YOU will be screwed out of your money.

We also need clinics. My neighbor is an emergency room doctor. Recently, he and a few of his doctor buddies decided to start a new company. Their business is a clinic that is directly across the street from the hospital. What they do is they partnered with the hospital. The problem was that people would go to the emergency room for ANYTHING. That caused ridiculous bills for the patients and unnecessary wait times and just crowded the ER with injuries that shouldn't have been there. So, what they did is they started this clinic which people can go to before heading to the ER, so they get told exactly where they need to branch off to next, whether it is a local doctor, a dentist, or if they need to be rushed across the street immediately to the emergency room. Instead of paying $300 to sit in the ER lobby, it costs only $25-100 or so to get looked at and get the temporary care you need before being referred to another doctor.

With universal health care, none of this will be solved. THIS is the source of the problem. If they fix the fucking corrupt system, health care can actually become affordable.

Rob Oplawar
August 19th, 2009, 02:30 PM
Well said (if a little ranty), jcap. +rep.
iirc the health care reform bill does address some of those issues, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't count as actual "universal" health care. I may be mistaken, though; what I really need to do is read the damn thing. (Yeah, like that's gonna happen, crazy thing's 1000 pages long).


By the way, my grandpa responded by comparing Obama to Hitler. :rolleyes:

=sw=warlord
August 19th, 2009, 02:43 PM
By the way, my grandpa responded by comparing Obama to Hitler. :rolleyes:
Tell him Cobby dosn't see obama crashing babies heads into concrete walls to see how strong their skulls are, nor have i see obama set concentration camps up for the mexicans jews:v:

TVTyrant
August 19th, 2009, 02:43 PM
Maybe you people should all work for the government. My sister (who at the time was my parents dependeant and thus their insurance was extended to her) payed 10 fucking dollars to have a baby. 10 bucks. My parents are teachers. Thats what Im going into as well. Sorry, but that sounds like a good deal to me.

Rob Oplawar
August 19th, 2009, 03:10 PM
excerpts from my next reply:

A friend of mine is Jewish [ed note: Mass] and he's the most hilariously liberal person I've ever met (if anything, I strive to be moderate, but find myself on the liberal side more often than not). He has some truly wacky ideas. He also thinks that comparing Obama to Hitler is about as fair and meaningful as comparing Bush to Genghis Khan. It's simply a non-sequitur, no matter how people try to tie the discussion in knots by pointing out that Obama like Hitler was popular and charismatic or that Bush like Khan aggresively invaded parts of Asia. (Please don't misconstrue my meaning- as I said before I don't mean to target the former President, I'm just trying to point out the absurdity of the argument by forming a similarly absurd one).

I recognize now that my fears under the Bush administration of complete loss of telecommunications privacy or a reinstatement of the draft or nuclear war were embarrassingly unfounded. I believe time will show conservative claims about the effects of the Obama administration to be similarly unfounded.

Should I post some of his side of the argument?

Disaster
August 19th, 2009, 09:17 PM
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If the government can't even take care of our native americans, how are they going to take care of the rest of the population?

More of a general reply to your statement about socialized health care.

paladin
August 19th, 2009, 10:11 PM
Just like the last one....