What Stock Map do you think has the Best Gameplay?

[CodeBrain]

I want to know what you guys think what stock maps (meaning maps that came with the game, no custom maps) has the best gameplay.

Mainly because I was going to make a map and I wanted to see what to look for in a map.

[=sw=warlord]

Bloodgulch.
[/thread]

[Lateksi]

Damnation... or Chill Out. I like how there are multiple floors on those maps. Also they're not too big and not too small in size. They're great for slayer.
CTF maps could be more symmetrical and hmm... just read Sis' post.

[Ganon]

ratrace, wizard, carousel, chillout, sidewinder and icefields were always my favorites gameplay wise.

as far as what to look for, there are many things and you won't truly understand them unless you actually spend a lot of time playing the game. some things to keep in mind though:

-ctf maps should normally have a symmetrical design, in order to the map being one sided (damnation). Slayer maps can go either way, as long as there isnt a major camping spot. There are however some cases (ratrace) where asymetrical design made it great for slayer and ctf.

-flying vehicles (banshee) are terrible for gameplay, period.

-rocket warthogs are the best thing to happen since sliced bread

-any more than 2 teleport groups are confusing, and 2 different teles should never lead to the same spot (cliffhanger). its also best to try and design teleports to be out of reach of vehicles, personally been exploiting tele blocking for years and I hate it.

-try not to create small chokepoints in big maps like grove final and wtc. as popular as the maps were, this is what really kills those maps (in a game with good people it IS impossible to cap.)

-big confusing/complex bases are :saddowns: (grove, wtc >.>)

-there should be less vehicles than players in your map

-tanks are also :saddowns:

[StankBacon]

Bloodgulch.
[/thread]

get out, troll.

[=sw=warlord]

get out, troll.
There must be a reason Bloodgulch gets played so damned often and it can't be just cause its pretty.

[Pooky]

There must be a reason Bloodgulch gets played so damned often and it can't be just cause its pretty.

Because people have no skill/originality?

[StankBacon]

it gets played so much is because noobs like to camp the hills and spawn kill, thinking the high score makes them leet.

in my opinion bg has the worst game play of all the stock maps.

[=sw=warlord]

Because people have no skill/originality?
More like the fact its very ballenced.

[Pooky]

More like the fact its very ballenced.

:lmao:
:lmao:

[StankBacon]

yah i lol'd as well.

[=sw=warlord]

Laugh all you like but i seem to remember quite a few here were telling people to design their maps to be ballenced like bloodgulch and now you lot have got feathers in your nickers with just the thought of it.

[Sever]

H1: Damnation. Each and every area of the map has a unique structuring, and is arranged in a fashion that allows it to interact with every other area (even when that interaction is protection from that other area, which is an integral part of the combat flow) throughout the course of any game. Some areas have definite advantages, but are easily outweighed by that same simple fact - people expect that area to be used and are prepared to counter it, and the map provides numerous methods for doing so.

H2: Terminal. Everything I said about Damnation, just augmented with vehicular and counter-vehicular combat.

H3: Longshore. Everything I said about Damnation and Terminal, along with the fact that for once they gave a map in H3 the perfect weapon layout.

[Ganon]

bloodgulch is an ok map, not very good due to many reasons. it just gets played the way it does because it can house 16 players and u can join and start shooting right away.


it gets played so much is because noobs like to camp the hills and spawn kill, thinking the high score makes them leet.

u goT a proBlem bre?

[SnaFuBAR]

Laugh all you like but i seem to remember quite a few here were telling people to design their maps to be ballenced like bloodgulch and now you lot have got feathers in your nickers with just the thought of it.

except everyone pretty much says no more blood gulch crap and it sucks??

[Limited]

it gets played so much is because noobs like to camp the hills and spawn kill, thinking the high score makes them leet.
Um, is that not what HIV did on wartorn cove every game? Camp the top beach and the teles.

[CrAsHOvErRide]

it's ballenced doh

[Cortexian]

Bloodgulch game play, an in depth analysis!

run down center
fire pistol
run down center
fire pistol
run down center
fire pistol
run to hill
fire pistol
fire pistol
fire pistol
run out of ammo
die

get sniper rifle
run to cliffs
fire sniper rifle
run out of ammo
run down center
fire pistol
run down center
fire pistol
fire pistol
fire pistol
run to hill
fire pistol
die

repeat.

[blind]

You guys have all camped the hills to no end so stop fucking bitching about it.

Bloodgulch is horribly unbalanced for two reasons, the hill in front of red tele is a shitload better to camp than it is at blue. And the second and more important reason is that red team can see their own tele and thus camping that spot is a bit harder, at least you can see it and snip off the scrubs telefragging.

Bloodgulch is fun to play because you don't have to try.

[Lateksi]

Um, is that not what HIV did on wartorn cove every game? Camp the top beach and the teles.

Well that's the key to win but I guess he means it's lame for the defending team.

[sdavis117]

Sidewinder

[W1zard]

I like Boarding Action best, mainly because it never has a spray 'n' pray situation.

Multiple stories, and actually some thinking about how you want to grab the flag, set out a route instead of riding shotgun on a warthog for wheversakes your driver takes you to.

Rockets and Fuel Rods are the least effective in this map, which makes this still balanced with a full server without score whores shooting the nubtube at groups

[Sel]

More like the fact its very ballenced.

:haw:

[English Mobster]

Here's how I design a map, personally:


Multiple routes to the flag. If you include vehicles in your map, make one designed for vehicular combat while the other one is designed for infantry only.
Put one or two power weapons on the map, and make it so you have to take the longest possible route to get to these weapons.
Think as if you are making a map for Team Fortress 2, with a few changes to allow for Halo's gameplay (vehicles and whatnot). Make a sniper perch at each base, then one or two out in the middle. However, if it allows for too much camping, DON'T put the sniper rifle near the sniper perch. Make it so players have to go get the sniper rifle THEN go up on the perch and own everything. Make some tight corners as if you were designing them for a Pyro ambush, so players will turn the corner and immediately have to start shooting at someone they had no clue was there five seconds ago. Make tiny nooks and crannies as if you were allowing a Spy to recharge his cloak, except utilize them in Halo for hiding players so they can sneak past/ambush a group of enemies going down the path. You'd be surprised how well it works.
If you have ANY kind of chokepoint, put another side path around it. Make it so players can break through a team camping a point and be able to flank them.
Make it so whatever one team does, the other team can counter it. DOUBLE-CHECK BOTH SIDES CAN COUNTER SOMETHING WHILE IT'S STILL ON PAPER. If you give one team a shotgun, either give the other team another shotgun or a flamethrower.
The only place you should NOT have alternate routes is directly in front of the flag. This promotes teamwork to break through a team which is just camping the flag. If the flag guy can escape without anyone knowing where he is, the cap is essentially guaranteed, and there is ZERO tension for the flag guy. Make it so the guy has to go RIGHT past where the enemy team is, creating tension. Tension is good. Tension = Fun. Why do you think people watch scary movies?

[blind]

your last rule sucks.
best times ever were trying to sneak out of wtc bases with flag

[StankBacon]

Um, is that not what HIV did on wartorn cove every game? Camp the top beach and the teles.

i never did that.... actually only a few hivers did, the rest of us were the cap masters on that map :)

[Cortexian]

your last rule sucks.
best times ever were trying to sneak out of wtc bases with flag
Wtc still only has one main exit from the flag area, as you have to get out of the base and take a teleporter or take a vehicle out the same way you came in.

[blind]

Wtc still only has one main exit from the flag area, as you have to get out of the base and take a teleporter or take a vehicle out the same way you came in.
Uh.
The top parts of the base.
The main entrance.

Then

Teleporter.
And then theres two alternate paths leading from both bases.
learn to wtc

[Higuy]

damnation
chill out
dangercanyon (for pc)
sidewinder

[Inferno]

ratrace, wizard, carousel, chillout, sidewinder and icefields were always my favorites gameplay wise.

as far as what to look for, there are many things and you won't truly understand them unless you actually spend a lot of time playing the game. some things to keep in mind though:

-ctf maps should normally have a symmetrical design, in order to the map being one sided (damnation). Slayer maps can go either way, as long as there isnt a major camping spot. There are however some cases (ratrace) where asymetrical design made it great for slayer and ctf.

-flying vehicles (banshee) are terrible for gameplay, period.

-rocket warthogs are the best thing to happen since sliced bread

-any more than 2 teleport groups are confusing, and 2 different teles should never lead to the same spot (cliffhanger). its also best to try and design teleports to be out of reach of vehicles, personally been exploiting tele blocking for years and I hate it.

-try not to create small chokepoints in big maps like grove final and wtc. as popular as the maps were, this is what really kills those maps (in a game with good people it IS impossible to cap.)

-big confusing/complex bases are :saddowns: (grove, wtc >.>)

-there should be less vehicles than players in your map

-tanks are also :saddowns:

Listen to this guy.

Also rockets and FRG should never ever go on a map that's smaller than bloodgulch. Ever.

In fact FRG should never go on a map period.

edit-
And derelict is fun too.

[=sw=warlord]

Listen to this guy.

Also rockets and FRG should never ever go on a map that's smaller than bloodgulch. Ever.

In fact FRG should never go on a map period.

edit-
And derelict is fun too.Rockets on prisoner is pretty fun.
definently not a troll

[Inferno]

Rockets on prisoner is pretty fun.
definently not a troll


If the game type is all rockets it's fine. But having a weapon that powerfull in close range on a small map is just retarded. Nothing beats rockets on chillout, prisoner, chiron and damnation unless your just terrible.

[Heathen]

Hang 'Em High.

[Ganon]

Hang 'Em High.

stop do not trole

[Heathen]

best map in any halo game.

I mean it.

[Inferno]

Best pistol wank fest in any game. I mean it.

[Maniac]

Sidewinder.

[Phopojijo]

It's been a long time -- but my favourite was Ice Fields and Death Island... Gearbox made the best maps.

[tythespy]

Sidewinder,Ice Fields, dangercanyon no heavys

[SnaFuBAR]

Infinity

[Inferno]

Damnation no heavy's.

Amazing game play.

[Ganon]

red has advantage in ctf

[Con]

I'm a sucker for Chill Out shotguns, with shields.

[Sel]

If the game type is all rockets it's fine. But having a weapon that powerfull in close range on a small map is just retarded. Nothing beats rockets on chillout, prisoner, chiron and damnation unless your just terrible.

Prisoner is the best map ever made, and it's better than anything you've ever done, so uh shut up!

[TeeKup]

IceFields. Loved everything about it.

[KiLLa]

Ratrace shotguns, Prisoner Rockets, Chill Out shot guns...snipers sidewinder...best combos imo..

[Cagerrin]

Prisoner is the best map ever made, and it's better than anything you've ever done, so uh shut up!
This.

Also Damnation plasma pistols only.

[Pooky]

On topic, Damnation Team Slayer with classic weapons.

[PopeAK49]

except everyone pretty much says no more blood gulch crap and it sucks??

He's not talking about blood gulch in general. It's more of it's symetry. And symetry is a good thing when designing maps.

I enjoy chillout the most. I guess because each area is different. Or in this case it's A-symetrical. Damnation is my second favorite.

[Pooky]

He's not talking about blood gulch in general. It's more of it's symetry. And symetry is a good thing when designing maps.

I enjoy chillout the most. I guess because each area is different. Or in this case it's A-symetrical. Damnation is my second favorite.

Have none of you looked at Blood Gulch lately? There's no 'symetry' whatsoever to it.

[Timo]

Prisoner. Good luck getting a general opinion out of this though - everyone has different ideas on what makes a good map.

[t3h m00kz]

For big vehicle/ctf maps I'd say Death Island is my favorite, for large-scale team slayer matches, Hang Em High, for smaller 1v1, 2v2 slayer, Chillout

[p0lar_bear]

I'd be on the Damny bandwagon as well if someone hadn't gone and ruined it for me. :smithicide:

I personally like Infinity, but it's too damn big. 16 players is just barely enough for it, but playing it effectively requires teamwork; something the average pub scrub fails at.

Chill Out is a fucking grenade spamfest, as is Rat Race. Worst goddamn maps to play on if the server op turned on infinite grenades.

Chiron is fucking awesome once you realize how the layout works, which is something the average Halo player can't be assed to do.

Sidewinder is good imho.

[n00b1n8R]

I'd be on the Damny bandwagon as well if someone hadn't gone and ruined it for me. :smithicide:

I personally like Infinity, but it's too damn big. 16 players is just barely enough for it, but playing it effectively requires teamwork; something the average pub scrub fails at.

Chill Out is a fucking grenade spamfest, as is Rat Race. Worst goddamn maps to play on if the server op turned on infinite grenades.

Chiron is fucking awesome once you realize how the layout works, which is something the average Halo player can't be assed to do.

Sidewinder is good imho.
I find playing race on Chiron is a good way to learn the layout (and how it's all fucking next to each other, that blew my mind lol).

Favourite default maps?
I actually liked KoTH on Damnation as well as All vehicles on deathisland. Sidewinder is fun too, and icefields was nice.
For small maps, I actually can't remember any of their names lol

[=sw=warlord]

Have none of you looked at Blood Gulch lately? There's no 'symetry' whatsoever to it.
Have you look at it recently?
There is a base one side a identical base the other side, there is a teleporter in one base leading to the middle there is one on the other base, each side has a cave which lead to the middle.

[Timo]

Have you look at it recently?
There is a base one side a identical base the other side, there is a teleporter in one base leading to the middle there is one on the other base, each side has a cave which lead to the middle.

Derelict, Wizard and Battle Creek are symmetrical maps. Just because Blood Gulch has similar elements on each side doesn't mean it's symmetrical :\ One base has an obvious advantage over the other (whoever can camp the tele on the hill - I forget).

[=sw=warlord]

Derelict, Wizard and Battle Creek are symmetrical maps. Just because Blood Gulch has similar elements on each side doesn't mean it's symmetrical :\ One base has an obvious advantage over the other (whoever can camp the tele on the hill - I forget).
I didn't say it was exactly symetrical i said it was balenced and i pointed out what i ment by that.

[p0lar_bear]

The topography of the map makes it very one-sided, however. The hill next to the red teleporter exit usually leaves blue base under constant assault.

[=sw=warlord]

The topography of the map makes it very one-sided, however. The hill next to the red teleporter exit usually leaves blue base under constant assault.
Only when people scramble for the sniper rifle and dont bother taking the person on the hill.

[Higuy]

Only when people scramble for the sniper rifle and dont bother taking the person on the hill.
uhhh no.
blood gulch is the worst over played map of all time. yeah its fun, but it gets tiresome, and once you relize how much of an advantage red has with the hill, it takes alot away from it. there's absoultley no cover almost and if the kid thats on the hill knows what he is doing, then your doomed.

[sleepy1212]

Here's how I design a map, personally:


Multiple routes to the flag. If you include vehicles in your map, make one designed for vehicular combat while the other one is designed for infantry only.
Put one or two power weapons on the map, and make it so you have to take the longest possible route to get to these weapons.
Think as if you are making a map for Team Fortress 2, with a few changes to allow for Halo's gameplay (vehicles and whatnot). Make a sniper perch at each base, then one or two out in the middle. However, if it allows for too much camping, DON'T put the sniper rifle near the sniper perch. Make it so players have to go get the sniper rifle THEN go up on the perch and own everything. Make some tight corners as if you were designing them for a Pyro ambush, so players will turn the corner and immediately have to start shooting at someone they had no clue was there five seconds ago. Make tiny nooks and crannies as if you were allowing a Spy to recharge his cloak, except utilize them in Halo for hiding players so they can sneak past/ambush a group of enemies going down the path. You'd be surprised how well it works.
If you have ANY kind of chokepoint, put another side path around it. Make it so players can break through a team camping a point and be able to flank them.
Make it so whatever one team does, the other team can counter it. DOUBLE-CHECK BOTH SIDES CAN COUNTER SOMETHING WHILE IT'S STILL ON PAPER. If you give one team a shotgun, either give the other team another shotgun or a flamethrower.
The only place you should NOT have alternate routes is directly in front of the flag. This promotes teamwork to break through a team which is just camping the flag. If the flag guy can escape without anyone knowing where he is, the cap is essentially guaranteed, and there is ZERO tension for the flag guy. Make it so the guy has to go RIGHT past where the enemy team is, creating tension. Tension is good. Tension = Fun. Why do you think people watch scary movies?



This plus use spawn points to counter spawn killers and when you use vehicles, place another that counters (defends against) that vehicle



Chiron is fucking awesome once you realize how the layout works, which is something the average Halo player can't be assed to do.

and this.

chiron is my favorite, the only thing they failed on was that most of the rooms can be used as nade traps...which i do whenever i have nades lol. I also like how you dont really need your team, since it's very likely that your team will be filled with douchebags anyway...with at least one guy meleeing the afk guy for minutes on end.

[PopeAK49]

Have none of you looked at Blood Gulch lately? There's no 'symetry' whatsoever to it.

It depends on what form of symetry you are thinking of.

In this case, the creators focused more on symetry than balance. Maybe it was balance you were thinking of.

[Warsaw]

My two personal favourites are Sidewinder and Hang 'Em High. Sidewinder has a classic shape with many available routes to the flag, and the way it's laid out makes the pistol less of a powerful weapon; it's too close to use it or too far to use it for half the time. Hang 'Em Highhas ample cover and it's tight enough where the pistol doesn't become all-powerful. This map has an emphasis on learning grenade placement.

[SnaFuBAR]

timberland is actually my favorite

[Lateksi]

Sidewinder has a classic shape with many available routes to the flag, and the way it's laid out makes the pistol less of a powerful weapon; it's too close to use it or too far to use it for half the time.

I like Sidewinder too, but the guy with a sniper is at huge advantage.

[PopeAK49]

I like Sidewinder too, but the guy with a sniper is at huge advantage.

Not if you have a really good counter sniping spot.

[blind]

I didn't say it was exactly symetrical i said it was balenced and i pointed out what i ment by that.
Its not balanced.


SCRATCH EVERY OPINION IN THIS THREAD.

Best game EVER is no shields, invisible team shotguns on Chiron.
Holy shit. Old CAF server <3

[Dwood]

Best game EVER is no shields, invisible team shotguns on Chiron.
Holy . Old CAF server <3


THIS WEEKEND, HCEL.

LET'S DO IT. Oh and don't forget to bring Cerebrum guyz.

[p0lar_bear]

Its not balanced.


SCRATCH EVERY OPINION IN THIS THREAD.

Best game EVER is no shields, invisible team shotguns on Chiron.
Holy shit. Old CAF server <3

I love you.

[sdavis117]

I love you.
^Agreed

More people need to try it. Really is the way that Chiron should be played.

[Warsaw]

I honestly don't understand why Chiron has such a bad rep. I love that map on pretty much any gametype (except rockets, because I hate rockets on any map).

[Dwood]

Let's do a Chiron + Shotty gamenight this Friday.

[annihilation]

My vote goes to Sidewinder.
This is only due to the maps U shape and turret to attack both bases.
I just realized that Avalanche is a remake of sidewinder.....

[Con]

My vote goes to Sidewinder.
This is only due to the maps U shape and turret to attack both bases.
I just realized that Avalanche is a remake of sidewinder.....
You use the turret? :ohdear:

[mech]

Ratrace and Derelict

Perfect for sneaking and bashing backs in.

[blind]

not just shotguns on chiron. invisible.
team.
shotguns.

[Pooky]

My vote goes to Sidewinder.
This is only due to the maps U shape and turret to attack both bases.
I just realized that Avalanche is a remake of sidewinder.....

How the hell would you go about attacking the bases with a turret that doesn't even reach that far (iirc)

[p0lar_bear]

How the hell would you go about attacking the bases with a turret that doesn't even reach that far (iirc)

I think the shots reach, but they take so damn long to get there that anyone with at least 1/4 of a brain is out of the way, and people with more than 1/2 a brain picked up the sniper to pick 'em off.

[sdavis117]

not just shotguns on chiron. invisible.
team.
shotguns.
You forgot the part about no shields.

[annihilation]

You use the turret? :ohdear:

Only because I know how to use it properly.
:realsmug:

[kid908]

hang 'em high. Favorite H1 map and will always be.

H2: Lockout. I like small games of 4-6 players. BT games aren't for me.

H3: really don't have a favorite. Maybe snowbound. IDK.

It really depends on the gameplay type you like playing. I play alot of free for all slayer so asymmetric maps are great for that and 1 flag CTF.

[blind]

hang em high sucks because of grenades.

[Pooky]

You forgot the part about no shields.
and no team indicators

[blind]

sorry for forgetting that shit guys, thanks for adding things to the greatest gametype ever :woop: