super program for HEK?

[Matooba]

http://screenshots.rd.to/files/e3hek/appscreen1.png

Has anyone seen this?
Link to post (http://forum.halomaps.org/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=30228)

[CrAsHOvErRide]

inb4 keylogger posts.

This looks legit and good :P

[Gwunty]

^was just about to post that :<

[Dwood]

I forgive e3po for any past wrongs if this program works. Better than prom imho.

[ShadowSpartan]

I forgive e3po for any past wrongs if this program works. Better than prom imho.
I am extremely skeptical about this program, I don't trust him and I probably never will.

How can you say this is better than Prom? They are two totally different applications, so you cannot compare the two.

[Donut]

wasnt prometheus a program that was supposed to combine all of the official halo modding utilities into one program? this is the same thing. two different programs that do the same thing. why can we not compare them?

[Dwood]

I am extremely skeptical about this program, I don't trust him and I probably never will.


Yeah. Will scan with every antivirus available when/if released etc etc.



How can you say this is better than Prom? They are two totally different applications, so you cannot compare the two.

This accomplishes, as far as I am aware, every goal that prometheus was meant to, though Prom would be much more efficient. (excluding Korn's new hs design)

[ShadowSpartan]

wasnt prometheus a program that was supposed to combine all of the official halo modding utilities into one program? this is the same thing. two different programs that do the same thing. why can we not compare them?
Prometheus did not use the actual HEK tools to edit the tags and to render the geometry for editing purposes. E3po's program does use the HEK tools. Prometheus had a lot more work put into it. It required a fair amount of research and a knowledgeable team, while this program did not. You don't know what you are talking about, so don't act like you do.


Yeah. Will scan with every antivirus available when/if released etc etc.
That's not the only reason I am skeptical. I believe most of his stuff is bullshit. He once told me that he was making an exact clone of the Halo engine, but the Bungie ninjas told him to stop... Here is the link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOukVIvXD0U) if you guys want to see his awesome multicolored warthog, totally proves it's not the normal Halo engine. :rolleyes:

[CrAsHOvErRide]

Well the big difference is that Prom does everything from scratch (rendering engine, gfx pipeline etc) and this app just copies the information from Sapien and Guerilla in the background.

[Dwood]

Well the big difference is that Prom does everything from scratch (rendering engine, gfx pipeline etc) and this app just copies the information from Sapien and Guerilla in the background.

While I would MUCH, MUCH rather have a Prometheus, this will achieve the same affect, will it not?

[ShadowSpartan]

While I would MUCH, MUCH rather have a Prometheus, this will achieve the same affect, will it not?
Not really. Prometheus was meant to replace the HEK tools with something better with new features, not simply run the current HEK tools from within another form.

[CrAsHOvErRide]

Well Prometheus would have added/has added/in the minds of some people would have had (:P) some new elements (better rendering, performance etc. the list goes on) which Sapien did not have. This program relies on Sapien and cannot directly add more things to Sapien etc. It just copies Sapien.

E: Spartan, you my siamese twin or something? Leave me alone :saddowns:

[Donut]

Prometheus did not use the actual HEK tools to edit the tags and to render the geometry for editing purposes. E3po's program does use the HEK tools. Prometheus had a lot more work put into it. It required a fair amount of research and a knowledgeable team, while this program did not. You don't know what you are talking about, so don't act like you do.
its still two programs that do the same thing. they just do that thing differently from each other. i understand the skeptisicm that comes with all of e3pos work, but really it seems like youre denouncing him out of personal dislike.

and i wasnt trying to act like a know-it-all before. that is why i used a question mark. really you could just state facts. the insulting was unnecessary.

E: and dont get me wrong, i would much prefer prometheus to this.

[supersniper]

why are you even talking about that dead project.

this is looking promising prometheus yeah it was well done but NEVER finished.
at least e3po releases stuff.

[Donut]

thats what i was thinking too. we can all muse about prometheus but last time i checked the website (which was 2007 or something) they hadnt updated in quite a while. i think its safe to say that prometheus isnt going to see a release.

[FreedomFighter7]

Thats the story of like, 90% of community developed stuff. As far as I know, only one total conversion mod has ever been released, and that's Tremulous. That Mechwarrior living legends probably won't ever see a full version. Trem has a v2 coming out, but its been in the works for years, and likely won't ever see the light of day. That's the thing with stuff done in spare time, or as hobbies, there's never any urgency to get things done. You need deadlines, and serious deadlines at that. Deadlines you drop entire features for.

Look at my P-22 model, its been worked on for months, because: 1) I hate modeling, and 2) I'm only working on it when I feel like it. Halo CE maps coming out are a great example of this, I look at halomods/modnexus and see tons of huge threads about a map that never got finished. I seem to remember this map name church, which was really popular, but the first few pictures were shit. Stretched textures and shit everywhere. That's beside the point, me going off on a tangent, but most maps never get finished.

[Skyline]

With those kind of reasons against it not being finished I'm surprised you even started making it. Don't do something you hate :).

[supersniper]

he did it to be popular ;)

[t3h m00kz]

at this point in Halo CE's lifeline, Prometheus will never see the light of day.

If this doesn't have some sort of keylogger, I welcome this project with open arms.

[TheGhost]

Prometheus was much, much, much more ambitious than what I think most of you realize. This doesn't even hold a candle to it.

Honestly, I'm not really sure what people are giving him so much credit for. He's basically just taking 4 separate exe's and having them all run under one hood. What's wrong with having them all running separately within the operating system?

[Choking Victim]

Prometheus was much, much, much more ambitious than what I think most of you realize. This doesn't even hold a candle to it.

Honestly, I'm not really sure what people are giving him so much credit for. He's basically just taking 4 separate exe's and having them all run under one hood. What's wrong with having them all running separately within the operating system?
This.

It's basically an app launcher on steroids.

Think about H2V's crappy launcher tool for compiling lightmaps and what have you.

[t3h m00kz]

There's nothing wrong with having them running separately, but having them all in one exe is a little more convenient.

[TheGhost]

There's nothing wrong with having them running separately, but having them all in one exe is a little more convenient.

How so? They are all on the taskbar at the bottom of your screen. Since he cannot add any NEW features, it seems that all he could do is remove features and cripple the tools. That and I'm not sure about the performance implications of trying to get everything working in that one executable - what if you are only using a couple of the apps and don't need the full suite?

[ShadowSpartan]

Prometheus was much, much, much more ambitious than what I think most of you realize. This doesn't even hold a candle to it.

Honestly, I'm not really sure what people are giving him so much credit for. He's basically just taking 4 separate exe's and having them all run under one hood. What's wrong with having them all running separately within the operating system?
Exactly my point.


There's nothing wrong with having them running separately, but having them all in one exe is a little more convenient.
How is it more convenient? You will still have to switch between tabs in his program, how is that any different than switching between windows? In reality it is actually worse because from the look of it you cannot even have two tags in Guerilla open at once.

[t3h m00kz]

Personal preference.

I use tabbed chats with MSN. Tabs in a browser. My task bar is always cluttered, I prefer tabs.

[Skyline]

Honestly, I'm not really sure what people are giving him so much credit for.

It must be the word 'super' in the title/name.

[Dwood]

I like this app for the ability to change one small thing, type a macro, recompile, and restart halo to test the map, all in one environment. It might not be Prom but I have hope.

[ShadowSpartan]

It might not be Prom but I have hope.
Hope for what? That it will magically turn into a program like Prom? It's not going to happen, especially from a person like E3po.


Since he cannot add any NEW features, it seems that all he could do is remove features and cripple the tools.
Stop and read that quote by Ghost very carefully. Now think about it for a second. He cannot add any new features to the HEK tools whatsoever, so what are you hoping for besides a miracle? All this will ever be is a glorified app launcher that people think is "amazing" because they've never seen one like it before.

[NerveBooger]

Even if Prometheus can do much more . . . it hasn't been released, correct? So noone can use it, despite it's claim to be better. Correct?

How does this make it better?

[Choking Victim]

Even if Prometheus can do much more . . . it hasn't been released, correct? So noone can use it, despite it's claim to be better. Correct?

How does this make it better?
How does you not having something impact it's superiority?

We currently don't have the technology to sustain a fusion reaction, but it doesn't cease to be better than fission.

We're arguing Prometheus' superiority because it had better features and actually added more capability to the tools, this is just a launcher. I might as well run all 4 apps simultaneously and switch via the taskbar.

[chrisk123999]

Your guys should actually read the whole post on halomaps. It's more then just all the programs in 1. I think the in-game window with live changes will help a lot.

[ShadowSpartan]

Your guys should actually read the whole post on halomaps. It's more then just all the programs in 1. I think the in-game window with live changes will help a lot.
Doesn't seem like that is implemented yet, I wonder why. :rolleyes: I will believe it when I see it.

[legionaire45]

I'm amazed that people are willing to risk their personal data by trying this app out. This guy has a past history of integrating malware into his code and yet alarms aren't going off in people's heads?


Thats the story of like, 90% of community developed stuff. As far as I know, only one total conversion mod has ever been released, and that's Tremulous. That Mechwarrior living legends probably won't ever see a full version. Trem has a v2 coming out, but its been in the works for years, and likely won't ever see the light of day. That's the thing with stuff done in spare time, or as hobbies, there's never any urgency to get things done. You need deadlines, and serious deadlines at that. Deadlines you drop entire features for.
Question: Have you actually tried to keep track of any other mod communities besides the ones on this site? Clearly you haven't because I can guarantee you that more than just a handful of TCs have been released (http://www.moddb.com).

Most mod teams are a lot more organized than what you see right now in the Halo community. I have more experience with Source (http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Making_a_Mod) than with other stuff, but mod teams that are actually serious about what they do are much more organized than what you are trying to describe.



I seem to remember this map name church, which was really popular, but the first few pictures were shit. Stretched textures and shit everywhere.
Maybe you should go look at the finished version of the map.

[Dwood]

How does you not having something impact it's superiority?

We currently don't have the technology to sustain a fusion reaction, but it doesn't cease to be better than fission.

We're arguing Prometheus' superiority because it had better features and actually added more capability to the tools, this is just a launcher. I might as well run all 4 apps simultaneously and switch via the taskbar.

no one is making the argument that this is better than prom at this point, they/we are just saying this is the next best thing.

[n00b1n8R]

I'm hearing a lot of "was" and "would have" with regards to promethius, did that get officially canned and I missed it?

[Donut]

lets forget that this is e3po for a second (so put your personal dislikes away)

from what i understand from the posts here, a programmer cannot add new features such as grid snapping to sapien? if thats the case, then forget it. ill just stick with my separate apps. what im asking here is would it actually be possible to add things like snapping objects to a grid or updating shaders in real time between gurilla and sapein?

[n00b1n8R]

Also, when did he put malware in his apps, I've heard about it but not any specifics :S

[Skyline]

:rolleyes: I will believe it when I see it.

Famous last words. You know what I'm talking about.

[NerveBooger]

How does you not having something impact it's superiority?

We currently don't have the technology to sustain a fusion reaction, but it doesn't cease to be better than fission.

We're arguing Prometheus' superiority because it had better features and actually added more capability to the tools, this is just a launcher. I might as well run all 4 apps simultaneously and switch via the taskbar.

Hypothetical superiority or an actual release? Where can I download Prometheus? I've looked for it, cant find it.

[L0d3x]

I don't see any real time saving features in this app tbh. At least not any features that would significantly speed up my own work.

I'll stick to the original HEK.

[=sw=warlord]

All this will ever be is a glorified app launcher that people think is "amazing" because they've never seen one like it before.
You and i both know there was a time where Hex editing maps was considered "amazing" because it had not been done before.
Amazing dosn't always need to be completely out of the box and so well executed that nothing will ever beat it in the future.

How does you not having something impact it's superiority?

We currently don't have the technology to sustain a fusion reaction, but it doesn't cease to be better than fission.

At the current moment, promethius is only superior in potential features, but in terms of availability E3P0's tool is king between the two, just because it dosn't have as many features or is written as well doe's not mean it is completely and utterly worthless.
As far as i remember, the team at halodev were going to rewrite the code for one module or something, albiet this was over a year ago.
Promethius was basicly the icecrete aircraft carrier that was planned near the end of WW2, brilliant idea, would have been very usefull but in the end never came to completion.
However, i personaly would not touch this tool with a barge pole considering E3P0's past record.

[il Duce Primo]

This app doesn't bring anything new to the table. It looks like it runs all the tools at once even if you only need guerilla. In any case it just runs slower amd doesn't make anything easier just more frustrating.

[Hunter]

What happened to Prom?

[Dwood]

Nick dropped off the face of the planet and no one has heard from him for like a year.

[ShadowSpartan]

You and i both know there was a time where Hex editing maps was considered "amazing" because it had not been done before.
Amazing dosn't always need to be completely out of the box and so well executed that nothing will ever beat it in the future.
How can this be amazing when it does not add any new features? Making a sophisticated app launcher is nothing special, but half of you here, as well as the people at Halomaps believe it is.


And a way to delete ghost (not the vehicle) collision.
Tag Encryption; would allow you to lock certain tags with an encryption.
Early-Warning System; (make this with an on/off option) warns you if what your doing may cause harm to your map, tag, or computer, before you do it.
Maybe put a set of integrated tutorial videos on how to use the program. So newer users can learn using the software.
Request: Recording recorded animations.
A script function that causes a exception.
etc

Those are a few examples of idiotic ideas that are coming up, that will not happen because he cannot add new features.


At the current moment, promethius is only superior in potential features, but in terms of availability E3P0's tool is king between the two, just because it dosn't have as many features or is written as well doe's not mean it is completely and utterly worthless.
As far as i remember, the team at halodev were going to rewrite the code for one module or something, albiet this was over a year ago.
Is it that hard to spell Prometheus correctly? It's been spelled correctly multiple times in this thread. Prometheus added many new features to the HEK as well as easy Project management. The amount of programming, of code complexity with his application does not even come close to Prometheus.


I've got the ingame feature working somewhat, i accidentally broke it earlier today when i was updating how the forms mesh into my application. I'll add more code to fix it tomorrow.
How convenient, the ingame feature isn't working when he posts a video. I wonder why?

Did any of you happen to watch the video? In the video he opened tutorial.scenario, a relatively simple scenario tag because there is not much in it. The program stopped responding for over 30 seconds until it finally loaded the tag. Does that seem normal to any of you? A scenario tag should not take that long to load, and it only shows how inefficient this app launcher is.

[CrAsHOvErRide]

Very inefficient. Also, English speaking people have a problem pronouncing foreign names.

GUERRILLA not GORILLA

[Hunter]

Did any of you happen to watch the video? In the video he opened tutorial.scenario, a relatively simple scenario tag because there is not much in it. The program stopped responding for over 30 seconds until it finally loaded the tag. Does that seem normal to any of you? A scenario tag should not take that long to load, and it only shows how inefficient this app launcher is.

Dammit, that would be about 40 minutes of waiting time on my computer :(

[chrisk123999]

Scenario tags always take a long time to load in Guerrilla on my computer when they have lots of stuff in them. His time didn't look much longer then it would on mine.

[Timo]

All of the scenario tags i've ever loaded in Guerilla or Kornman only take a couple of seconds, 5 or 6 at the most.

[CrAsHOvErRide]

Scenario tags always take a long time to load in Guerrilla on my computer when they have lots of stuff in them. His time didn't look much longer then it would on mine.

His computer is a quad with 16GB.

[CodeBrain]

Very inefficient. Also, English speaking people have a problem pronouncing foreign names.

GUERRILLA not GORILLA

You're referring to my H2V map making tutorial are you

I thought you were done with that

:(

[CrAsHOvErRide]

You're referring to my H2V map making tutorial are you

I thought you were done with that

:(

lol wut?

Nah it's a common mistake since HEK came out. :iamafag:

[n00b1n8R]

Also, when did he put malware in his apps, I've heard about it but not any specifics :S
.

[NuggetWarmer]

Thats the story of like, 90% of community developed stuff. As far as I know, only one total conversion mod has ever been released, and that's Tremulous. That Mechwarrior living legends probably won't ever see a full version. Trem has a v2 coming out, but its been in the works for years, and likely won't ever see the light of day. That's the thing with stuff done in spare time, or as hobbies, there's never any urgency to get things done. You need deadlines, and serious deadlines at that. Deadlines you drop entire features for.
*SNIP*

What a crock of bullshit. For one, neither one of those are for CE. Secondly, it's not Tremulous V2, it's Tremulous 2, a full stand-alone paid for game. Mechwarrior Living Legends just released a beta, meaning that they are more than likely close to a final release.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Do the world a favor and stop posting. :downs:

[CodeBrain]

lol wut?

Nah it's a common mistake since HEK came out. :iamafag:


You I-Can-Only-Speak-English dude

it's GUERILLA not GORILLA

Difference?

Guerilla
http://class.csueastbay.edu/latinamericanstudies/el-salvador-guerilla.jpg
Gorrila
http://www.msu.edu/%7Edrb/gorilla.gif

It's Spanish for warfare.


:(

[CrAsHOvErRide]

Oh I remember xD Some smartass told me afterward that that thing is an Orangutan.

It's wasn't directed at you so no harsh feeling *strokestroke*

Guerrilla has been misspelled since the dawn of HEK.

[chrisk123999]

Original message by: Fairchild (E3PO)
IN game mode is working better now!

https://www.wmclan.net/e3hek/ingamemode.html

Features added...

1. Saving maps in sapien, and then building them with tool will put them in your maps folder like normal, but will immediately be available in the "in game" client. This wasn't working 100% due to needing to overwrite a map file.

2. In game mode fixed

3. No need to have sapien running if all you need is Guerilla, and vise versa. You can close, and open any apps you want at any time.

4. Added a "no error" feature to tool that will allow you to bypass errors such as bitmap power of two, etc.

5. All fields are unlocked in guerilla, without the use of Kornman's hek "which doesn't work on some systems due to dll errors!".


Things to add currently:

1. Tool crashes program if selecting more then one thing to do at the same time. Need to create a new thread for each command so you can run bitmaps, and structure at the same time etc.

Hist post from Halomaps

Personally, I've been using his older hacked guerrilla for awhile now since I have the dll error. Yes by-passing errors is bad, no need to complain about that.

[Delta4907]

Ignore.

[t3h m00kz]

How does you not having something impact it's superiority?

Superior as it may be, it's completely useless in comparison if it's not available.

[supersniper]

exactly, we all know prom was a very good app but it really means nothing to fight for it if it was NEVER finished. and judging by how it is now it probably never will be.
key word in there is WAS

[Con]

Superior as it may be, it's completely useless in comparison if it's not available.
That really has nothing to do with his argument. He was trying to say what this HEK launcher was not through comparison with Prom. It doesn't matter if Prom exists or not, it's the comparison that's relevant to the original argument. :downs:

[Limited]

Omg this thread is hilarious :neckbeard:

Firstly, the fact Prometheus is not out doesnt make a difference. Why? Because we are looking for technological marvels here. We want new and exciting features. Enhanced user seamless experience.

The fact this app is actually more inefficient than just running regular HEK running makes the whole thing pointless. Considering when he opens his app and then "in-game", the regular Halo.exe process still runs however its hidden (not shown, not sure if window isnt actually created). He then uses window hooking functions to display what Halo is showing. Its quite a cool achievement to do that, but it doesnt add usability, it doesnt make things seamless because its completely unpractical, all you could do is click Halo on taskbar and its exactly the same.


Would save time with or without that. This is what Prometheus should have been.
That is what Prom did.

I'm not denying this is useful for people, but its not amazing and certainly doesnt beat Kornmans HEK because that actually improved on things.


That's not the only reason I am skeptical. I believe most of his stuff is bullshit. He once told me that he was making an exact clone of the Halo engine, but the Bungie ninjas told him to stop... Here is the link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOukVIvXD0U) if you guys want to see his awesome multicolored warthog, totally proves it's not the normal Halo engine. :rolleyes:
:D Wow...so he can code a full rendering engine, using I assume GLSL or HLSL, yet he doesnt show off any basic new rendering features that would easily show its a new real engine and not just Halo.exe :neckbeard:. Such as turning off the lighting, adding new light sources, editing the viewing frustum on the fly. OpenGL/DX 'wireframe' mode switch.


Famous last words. You know what I'm talking about.
Were talking about E3po here, he cant even deliver on what he says he has not to mention other things :P

I also love his post on "features added".


Features added...

1. Saving maps in sapien, and then building them with tool will put them in your maps folder like normal, but will immediately be available in the "in game" client. This wasn't working 100% due to needing to overwrite a map file. Semi-decent, Prom has it, least we can actually use it now though, its the only improvement to Halo this app brings.

2. In game mode fixed Fixing something isnt a feature.

3. No need to have sapien running if all you need is Guerilla, and vise versa. You can close, and open any apps you want at any time. You can already do that default HEK.

4. Added a "no error" feature to tool that will allow you to bypass errors such as bitmap power of two, etc. Already done, plus its bad and hacky.

5. All fields are unlocked in guerilla, without the use of Kornman's hek "which doesn't work on some systems due to dll errors!". Already done before, it just didnt work due to DLL errors.

[NerveBooger]

I have a friend - let's call him Harvey, he is invisible, he is 6 feet tall, and he's also a rabbit. Harvey asked me to politely ask you "Where can I download prometheus?"

He claims that it doesn't exist, but I don't want to argue with him and get him mad. (have you ever had a fight with a 6ft tall invisible rabbit? It's a bitch!)

Download link? (Please make it visible, dealing with Harvey's invisible droppings or 'keyloggers' as I call em is hard enough :tinfoil:)

[ShadowSpartan]

I have a friend - let's call him Harvey, he is invisible, he is 6 feet tall, and he's also a rabbit. Harvey asked me to politely ask you "Where can I download prometheus?"

He claims that it doesn't exist, but I don't want to argue with him and get him mad. (have you ever had a fight with a 6ft tall invisible rabbit? It's a bitch!)

Download link? (Please make it visible, dealing with Harvey's invisible droppings or 'keyloggers' as I call em is hard enough :tinfoil:)
Maybe you should read the thread carefully instead of jumping into this thread acting like a child. Con's post (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showpost.php?p=503445&postcount=61), as well as the post he quotes, explains that Prometheus has not been released to the public, but that does not mean it is not better in every way than this app launcher e3po has made.

[t3h m00kz]

Fixing something isn't a feature.

I have to disagree with this.

If it can do something the original EK wouldn't, either a fix or something very simple, anything that differentiates it from the original EK, I personally would still consider it a feature. Even if it's something very tiny.

I still want to know whether or not this has malware or anything like that.

[Dwood]

I have to disagree with this.

If it can do something the original EK wouldn't, either a fix or something very simple, anything that differentiates it from the original EK, I personally would still consider it a feature. Even if it's something very tiny.

I still want to know whether or not this has malware or anything like that.

I may not like e3po much but I'm going to say that his apps do not have malware.

[Hunter]

It better not contain any stupid "features" which allow maps to be compiled with errors.

In other words, an ignoring important errors which are there for a reason, feature.


He said something about adding the ability to compile bitmaps which are not the correct size, that kind of thing is okay.

[TheGhost]

Ughh this sounds like a buggy PoS. You're not going to want to be using an app launcher with memory hacks created by a juvenile programmer with a bad record.

Also, for those of you hating on Prometheus. It DID have a lot of great features. It was never released, because it wasn't finished. They were trying to do too much. I wish they had cut down on the features and just gotten something out the door.

http://main.halodev.org/system/files/images/prom-07-01-2007-05.jpg

http://main.halodev.org/system/files/images/prom-07-01-2007-09.png

http://main.halodev.org/system/files/images/prom-07-01-2007-06.png

Not to mention it could open any map or any tags from ANY Halo game...

Why are people even trying to compare?

[Dwood]

Wouldnt it be fairly simple to write ones own hs interpreter so we could write scripts like that?

[Roostervier]

that wasnt the point at all

[Dwood]

that wasnt the point at all

Ya dont say. is it wrong to ask a question around here?

[ShadowSpartan]

Wouldnt it be fairly simple to write ones own hs interpreter so we could write scripts like that?
Seriously, that is the only thing you can think of that is useful about Prometheus from looking at those pictures? Open your eyes. If you think it is "fairly simple" to do that, then go ahead and try to write one yourself, I would love to see you try.


that wasnt the point at all
This.


Ughh this sounds like a buggy PoS. You're not going to want to be using an app launcher with memory hacks created by a juvenile programmer with a bad record.
Agreed, but I don't think we can get that through their thick skulls.


Not to mention it could open any map or any tags from ANY Halo game...

Why are people even trying to compare?
Because they are ignorant. They do not know how good the project was even in it's unfinished state.

E3po's application is nothing more than a fancy app launcher that people are hailing as the new Prometheus. Wake up. It's an app launcher that does not bring anything new to the table like Prometheus was going to, so stop comparing the two to one another.

[n00b1n8R]

CAN ANYBODY ACTUALLY POST PROOF THAT E3PO PUT MALWARE IN HIS APPS OR IS IT JUST A RUMOR EVERYONE JUMPED ON?

[Dwood]

CAN ANYBODY ACTUALLY POST PROOF THAT E3PO PUT MALWARE IN HIS APPS OR IS IT JUST A RUMOR EVERYONE JUMPED ON?


It's a rumour.

[chrisk123999]

Original message by: Fairchild

There was nothing in tool**, you can check the decompiled source code of previous versions that i'm sure someone has.


The only thing it did was load a web page to check for updates. That was it. How many apps do that these days?? uh... 1..2..3..4.5.6.. *looses count*.

[ShadowSpartan]

It's a rumour.
No, you are wrong. His Tool Star app, or whatever it was called, checked a website as he said for "updates". Nobody knew that it was doing so, so it is classified as malware (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malware). "Malware, short for malicious software, is software designed to infiltrate a computer system without the owner's informed consent."

One of his "updates" allowed code to run on a user's computer that deleted the Tool Star executable and replaced it with another, because he got mad at the community. Having a backdoor such as that would allow him to run any kind of code he wanted to without the user's permission or knowledge. Makes you want to use his application now doesn't it?

[chrisk123999]

Technically it was an update. Isn't that how updates work? By changing the exe with a newer updated one?

[ShadowSpartan]

Technically it was an update. Isn't that how updates work? By changing the exe with a newer updated one?
No, don't even try to defend what he did. Running code from a server that replaces the executable with something totally different is not an "update". He did not replace the executable with a newer version, he wrote a brand new executable in it's place that could have ran anything without the user's knowledge. A backdoor like that can be used to run any kind of code, including malicious code, and with his past record of getting mad at the community I would not put it past him to do something like this again.

[Choking Victim]

his past record of getting mad at the community I would not put it past him to do something like this again.
hissy fit # 1 (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12039)

Good times.

tldr:
"Let me have access to your pc so I can show you how to play H2V on XP"
A few days later:
"I was hacked and it wasn't me who was asking for access to your pc, it was someone else"

Yeah this guys legit. :rolleyes:

[Kalub]

Hey guys, I just wanted to let you know I was doing this launcher BS back in 06, it's nothing new. However, Prom, was fucking extraordinary imo.


You (see: whoever thinks this is hotshit, and supports cr3epo) need to all step back and reevaluate your lives.

[NerveBooger]

Last night I installed Norton Internet Security 2010 on my kids computer. The very first thing it did was to check for updates, and immediately began downloading a 57mb update.

I did not like the fact it didn't ask me, or even allow me to cancel the update, however, I have come to dislike the methods, but trust the results.

I trust Norton's products in spite of the fact that it behaves like a virus, adware and malware and makes about 300 entries to the registry.

So, is anyone claiming e3po "hacked" their computer, invaded privacy, used private info for personal gain/use, or had malicious intent? Or did he simply commit a nerd fau pas & failed to disclose or modify the program behavior?

September 2008 . . . long time for holding a grudge - if that's all it is. or maybe it's just a nerdgasmic paranoia rant over unwanted/hidden behavior of a software update procedure?

[Choking Victim]

Last night I installed Norton Internet Security 2010 on my kids computer. The very first thing it did was to check for updates, and immediately began downloading a 57mb update.

I did not like the fact it didn't ask me, or even allow me to cancel the update, however, I have come to dislike the methods, but trust the results.

I trust Norton's products in spite of the fact that it behaves like a virus, adware and malware and makes about 300 entries to the registry.

So, is anyone claiming e3po "hacked" their computer, invaded privacy, used private info for personal gain/use, or had malicious intent? Or did he simply commit a nerd fau pas & failed to disclose or modify the program behavior?

September 2008 . . . long time for holding a grudge - if that's all it is. or maybe it's just a nerdgasmic paranoia rant over unwanted/hidden behavior of a software update procedure?
Who said it's a grudge? Comparing a Corporate product developed by professionals to that of a 3rd party developer that can gain access to your pc is nothing short of ignorant. You know that license agreement you agreed to when you installed Norton? It's not just for show.

He doesn't have my download, that's all i'm saying.

[SnaFuBAR]

Are you seriously going to attempt legitimizing an undisclosed .exe replacement without consent because of a temper tantrum, and attempt to gain access to people's pc's under the guise of showing them "how to play h2v on xp" by comparing them to Norton's FULLY DISCLOSED ANTIVIRUS UPDATE??

Are you being fucking serious or do I need to infract you for trolling?? o.o

[Vicky]

... and makes about 300 entries to the registry.


Gee i must have that, or preferably some pc protection that makes 30,000 entries in the registry to speed it up some more :P
Aparently they still don't know how to protect a pc in a good and simply way.. lmao

For the app, trust it or don't...

[supersniper]

There's one thing that i just dont get.
If prom was so amazing why was it canned. so what it was more than they could chew at the time, but if it really was all that great why wouldn't one of you who actually know what your doing, and know how the code works, (by looking i'm guessing it's in C#) and just make a presentable release. then wouldn't that just shut everybody up.

I know it's a map launcher, i know it's incomparable but what I was sayinb before was that it's something that is getting DONE. that is why people are making a big deal out of it, because they know it will get released, maybe not completed but released.

and that, my friends, is what builds excitement in the community.

[SnaFuBAR]

dude this shit is already released, it's called HEK. this is just an app launcher.

[Choking Victim]

There's one thing that i just dont get.
If prom was so amazing why was it canned. so what it was more than they could chew at the time, but if it really was all that great why wouldn't one of you who actually know what your doing, and know how the code works, (by looking i'm guessing it's in C#) and just make a presentable release. then wouldn't that just shut everybody up.

I know it's a map launcher, i know it's incomparable but what I was sayinb before was that it's something that is getting DONE. that is why people are making a big deal out of it, because they know it will get released, maybe not completed but released.

and that, my friends, is what builds excitement in the community.
I believe the project was written in C. The reason nobody has picked it up to make a presentable release is simply because the source was never released. If your asking why nobody ever started the same project from scratch, you might as well also ask why nobody in the community has coded a new game engine. It's just too big of a project to tackle, especially when 90% of the programmers in this community don't work together.

While e3pO's application is at it's core governed by about 3 lines of code:

Process proc = new Process();
proc.StartInfo.FileName = "G:\\Program Files\\Microsoft Games\\Halo Custom Edition\\guerilla.exe";
proc.Start();Prometheus has thousands of lines.

[Dwood]

I forget what his name was but someone was trying to get a hold of nick, fix some bugs, and push it out the door. We havent heard from him since september though.

[jcap]

Dear God, this discussion is fucking pathetic.

How did this Prometheus comparison even come about in the first place? These two programs aren't even comparable. The function of the two don't even come close. Just because one was released doesn't make it better than what the potential the unreleased program had.

This app is a launcher. It cannot operate independently without the stock HEK files. It provides a more convenient way of doing things - nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't provide any new features and doesn't even support the unlocked OpenSauce Tool and Guerilla. Hell, from the screenshots it doesn't even look like it provides batch processing/file creation. That said, I think it is nice that everything is in one place and reduces the confusion and time required to do tasks with Tool.

Prometheus was a new HEK. In addition to combining the functionality of all the original HEK tools into one app, it added new features such as IntelliSense for Halo scripting, an undo/revert button, and easier and better object placement in their version of Sapien. It didn't just make the task of creating a map for Halo more convenient, but it made it a whole hell of a lot easier by getting rid of the problems that existed in the original HEK.

So why did development stop? Well, everyone left. Development slowed on it after they lost their top programmers, then completely ceased as everyone else faded away. Now a limited team, there was little motivation to finish the project with the Halo community continuously diminishing. I really do wish the source was given to someone who could at least break it down and use it for research in another app, but I honestly don't think it was ever as complete as the screenshots made it out to be. Again, the app had a lot of potential had it been finished. However, I feel that many of the screenshots were "staged" (in a sense, Photoshopped, but not) to show off a feature they were working on, but was not yet even 10% complete. The program was limited in its new features, and it was rather unstable, but it was at least creating new features which, even several years after announcement, no one else has done yet.

[Kornman00]

Before I left Prom (it was before they went back and pretty much started over with their code base) the UI that would get shown off was pretty much already in place. Of course, some parts just had stub code or just wrote some debug text to the output pane but what else would you expect from an in-development app?

In other words, what you saw in updates was actually what we saw when using Visual Studio's UI editors and such. Nick would use Visio to design mock UIs for parts of Prom but they would get translated into whatever .NET UI components we were using at the time. I don't remember any of those pure Visio models ever making their way into an update.

Eventually (after I had left) Nick finally got into C# and started doing some work on the UI layer. I used to get IMs from him with questions and such when the active team members were afk, drunk, mia or being attacked by their cat and thus couldn't be his knight in shiny armor.

[Kalub]

Prom would have been sweet if it came out. :(



This launcher however is just that, fuck I would have made this exact launcher with a .bat file with a pseudo DOS menu. And I used to do just that back in the day.

[il Duce Primo]

Someone get the source files and cut eveyrthing out of it and release a version with just a few basic addons such as the undo feature. Just having an undo feature would make it worth downloading.

[Inferno]

Someone get the source files and cut eveyrthing out of it and release a version with just a few basic addons such as the undo feature. Just having an undo feature would make it worth downloading.

Oh god. All the times sapien has randomly changed all the entries in the scenery field to the same object...

Undo is a nerds best freind. Too bad real life doesn't have a crtl+z.

[t3h m00kz]

yeah really. I'd have so much fucking money.

E: NOT THAT I DON'T ALREADY JEEZ

[Inferno]

Srsly.

That bitch had herpes?

ctrl+z.

[supersniper]

Before I left Prom (it was before they went back and pretty much started over with their code base) the UI that would get shown off was pretty much already in place. Of course, some parts just had stub code or just wrote some debug text to the output pane but what else would you expect from an in-development app?

In other words, what you saw in updates was actually what we saw when using Visual Studio's UI editors and such. Nick would use Visio to design mock UIs for parts of Prom but they would get translated into whatever .NET UI components we were using at the time. I don't remember any of those pure Visio models ever making their way into an update.

Eventually (after I had left) Nick finally got into C# and started doing some work on the UI layer. I used to get IMs from him with questions and such when the active team members were afk, drunk, mia or being attacked by their cat and thus couldn't be his knight in shiny armor.
Well then the real question is yeah the old moved on but can't you guys trust in the new and upcomming programmers?

I'm sure dwood could put together some group of people interested.

[ShadowSpartan]

I'm sure dwood could put together some group of people interested.
Dwood has limited programming experience, why would he be the one to gather a group of experienced programmers?

[supersniper]

becase the experienced programmers that i know of are busy doing their own tasks.
and I figured he's still learning and he'd be more dedicated to get a team going.

I mean think about it. It's no offense to the experienced and highly skillful ones it's just you all have your own projects i'm sure and probably wouldn't put prom as their top priority. while dwood is still learning, and probably would put prom as top priority, which therefore would result in some progress.

that's just my rational. please don't take it offensively.

[SnaFuBAR]

How would someone unexperienced with programming make progress on prom??

[Kornman00]

Because it's a team effort. The team would have to come to terms with any new additions or with anyone who will be messing with their code.

The code has standards and specific designs. If a person isn't fit or have the capacity to mold into such standards or designs then existing programmers wouldn't want them messing with their code.

They haven't made Prom an open source venture and thus won't just allow any joe blow into the blender. It'd be like applying for a paying programmer position. You'd have to show you have your bases covered to continue existing work or start on new systems which have been designed but not implemented. They don't want to have to teach people anything other than maybe some of the systems they've developed in Prom

[Dwood]

I would LOVE to put together a team for a Mini prom or something like that. I'd need to learn how to open and load tag files properly though...

(No way anyone would trust me with the real prom, though, simply because I haven't done anything that would be as Korn said.)

In fact, since Halo already has the rendering etc done we may as well grab a group of programmers to pimp out Skarma's Forge mode project. The original forge he was working on which had a demo released basically needs a way to save the changes to the map and bingo, you have something that may not be prom, but is better than e3pos app.

Especially if there was an ingame tag + script editor.

[Choking Victim]

This is my goodbye. You can reach me on messengers for further information on this subject.


I must leave now, for reasons in which i must not say. yes this project is still in play, just contact me over messenger or email.


Goodbye halomaps.

(no this is not a scam or me giving up on this application, just it's my time to go. Don't ask why, it's nobody's buisness. I'm still working on this project, and will post updates to anybody who is interested. Just send me an IM.)

Sorry Dennis, I meant no harm.
Who's surprised? :realsmug:

Source:http://forum.halomaps.org/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=30228&start=84

[Kalub]

I would LOVE to put together a team for a Mini prom or something like that. I'd need to learn how to open and load tag files properly though...

(No way anyone would trust me with the real prom, though, simply because I haven't done anything that would be as Korn said.)

In fact, since Halo already has the rendering etc done we may as well grab a group of programmers to pimp out Skarma's Forge mode project. The original forge he was working on which had a demo released basically needs a way to save the changes to the map and bingo, you have something that may not be prom, but is better than e3pos app.

Especially if there was an ingame tag + script editor.


Well, considering Prometheus had the best of the best on it's team roster and they couldn't finish it I don't think you could pull it off. The sheer knowledge base in that team was... immeasurable. Just let it die.

[il Duce Primo]

Could someone just make one with an undo feature?

[Kalub]

Yea, here's how to undo in Sapien or Guerilla.


In Guerilla backup your tags, you fuck something up restore the tags or keep sticky notes handy.

In Sapien, highlight the object and delete it, then replace it.


Easy enough

[Kornman00]

Well, considering Prometheus had the best of the best on it's team roster and they couldn't finish it I don't think you could pull it off. The sheer knowledge base in that team was... immeasurable.
If we/they would have just started off with how the re-write started...I think a version would have been public by now

[p0lar_bear]

A script function that causes a exception.


*facepalm*

(crash <string>)

[Inferno]

Hey host. If you have devmode on type in crash bandicoot. It's a secret command.

[FreedomFighter7]

I know very little about Prometheus, except from what I've read here, but after reading all this, how does one go and learn all of this stuff to make a program like Prom?

You guys have also talked about researching stuff about halo and how it works, how do you do this "research"? Do you write programs and explore files or something?

[CrAsHOvErRide]

That's the whole "secret" xD It's not really a secret but there is not really a how-to on it. You lean other things, combine that knowledge and then you can reverse that halo stuff :P

[Dwood]

Someone should write a tutorial on reversin tags.

[Limited]

Someone should write a tutorial on reversin tags.
Omfg, did you COMPLETELY just miss the post before yours? You really are made out of dwood.


That's the whole "secret" xD It's not really a secret but there is not really a how-to on it. You lean other things, combine that knowledge and then you can reverse that halo stuff :P

Also lol what a pathetic way to get out of this mess by E3po.

[Dwood]

Omfg, did you COMPLETELY just miss the post before yours?

That post was why I said it :v: