So, DS9

[Rob Oplawar]

I have a habit of learning how much I love a series after it's ended- I didn't even know about Firefly until after Serenity came out, after all.

So yeah, I just finished watching all of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, and I have to say, I loved every second of it. It's not that it had such a compelling story, but I really fell in love with the characters.

Anybody else love DS9? Anybody experienced similar issues of loving a show long after it ended? Got any recommendations for other shows with great characters, now that I've finished this one? I've watched the original Star Trek, Next Gen, and now DS9, so by default I'm planning on moving on to Voyager next, but I'm open to suggestions (I don't suspect Voyager can top DS9 in my mind, although I will watch it eventually).

e: Captain Sisko, Jake, Major Kira, Odo, Chief O'Brien, Quark, Rom, Nog, Zek, Moogie, Doctor Bashir, Jadzia/Curzon/Ezri Dax, Worf, Morn, Garak, Damar, Ziyal, Martok, Vic Fontaine, Lwaxana Troi, even Dukat, Gowron, Weyoun, Kai Winn, Eddington; fantastic characters all.

[Varmint260]

I haven't seen the entire series of DS9 (it's the only Star Trek series I haven't seen very much of). However, I've been seeing bits and pieces of it since it was fairly new, and now I watch an episode... have no clue what's going to happen but I still feel a connection to all the characters. I'm planning on watching the entire series eventually.

Only thing that bothers me is all this crap about "Prophets" and shit like that. Not Sci-Fi enough for me, to be quite honest. My biggest nitpick, really.

As for Voyager, I watched almost every episode, but I just don't think it's quite in the same league as The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine. Very edge-of-your-seat sort of intensity, though. Almost every single episode.

[Cortexian]

I really liked Voyager over DS9, better storyline and characters imo!

[Rob Oplawar]

I think the whole Prophets thing was an interesting take on religion meets science, but as I said the storyline was not why I like it so much. But I have to say, I'm in love with the cast of Next Gen too, and wasn't expecting much from DS9 when I first started watching, so I can easily see Voyager doing the same. I've seen cameos of the holographic doctor in DS9 and first contact, and I have to say I love that character. :)

Oh also, I shed a tear when the Defiant was destroyed. She was tough little ship.

e: Should it worry me that I find a deeper connection to more fictional characters in DS9 than I do to people I know in real life?

ee: New avatar in honor of my favorite character. He's just such a nice guy!

[Kornman00]

DS9 has always been my fav series of Star Trek. The Defiant class warship just fucking rocks my socks. I liked the doctor the most I think

I hated to see this show end :(

Another great, but short lived, tv series: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roughnecks:_Starship_Troopers_Chronicles

[Varmint260]

I've seen cameos of the holographic doctor in DS9 and first contact, and I have to say I love that character. :)
!

The EMH program is fucking awesome. Forgot about that. My favourite role for Robert Picardo.

"Perhaps you would like an analgesic cream?"

[Captain Pakundo]

What did you think about "Far Beyond The Stars"?

[Warsaw]

I have a habit of learning how much I love a series after it's ended- I didn't even know about Firefly until after Serenity came out, after all.

So yeah, I just finished watching all of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, and I have to say, I loved every second of it. It's not that it had such a compelling story, but I really fell in love with the characters.

Anybody else love DS9? Anybody experienced similar issues of loving a show long after it ended? Got any recommendations for other shows with great characters, now that I've finished this one? I've watched the original Star Trek, Next Gen, and now DS9, so by default I'm planning on moving on to Voyager next, but I'm open to suggestions (I don't suspect Voyager can top DS9 in my mind, although I will watch it eventually).

e: Captain Sisko, Jake, Major Kira, Odo, Chief O'Brien, Quark, Rom, Nog, Zek, Moogie, Doctor Bashir, Jadzia/Curzon/Ezri Dax, Worf, Morn, Garak, Damar, Ziyal, Martok, Vic Fontaine, Lwaxana Troi, even Dukat, Gowron, Weyoun, Kai Winn, Eddington; fantastic characters all.

Babylon 5 FTW. :raise:

[Cojafoji]

Oh rob....

I'm sorry that you only found out about DS9 recently. In terms or character dev, and story line, ds9 DEF takes the cake on top of voyager, tng, tos, and ent. freelancer is herp da derp retarded.

By the time the dominion rolled around i was totally entranced...

the large scale combat scenes really got me going, not to mention the monologues of the individual characters...

what separates all of the series from ds9 is definitely the character development and individual attention that every major cast member receives.

i can't really explain it, but DS9 definitely takes the cake...

edit: warsaw, if you don't like ds9, then don't fucking post. stop shitting up threads. b5 was a good series, but fuck off. the thread is about ds9. lrn2readplz.

double edit: was piss drunk when i wrote this...

[Rob Oplawar]

Thanks for the support Cojafoji, but I did ask for suggestions for other good shows.
I think what makes DS9 so great is the dynamic between all the characters. They are defined in terms of themselves, but also in terms of how they feel about each other, if that makes any sense.
I also started watching Battlestar Galactica a few months back, which is also fantastic. But I don't own the DVDs, and I have to wait for my friend to lend me each one, so I'm still just on season 2.

[Cojafoji]

Thanks for the support Cojafoji, but I did ask for suggestions for other good shows.
I think what makes DS9 so great is the dynamic between all the characters. They are defined in terms of themselves, but also in terms of how they feel about each other, if that makes any sense.
I also started watching Battlestar Galactica a few months back, which is also fantastic. But I don't own the DVDs, and I have to wait for my friend to lend me each one, so I'm still just on season 2.
if you're really a sci fi guru, find space above and beyond. it's a little cheesy, and the cgi is early 90's, but it was a DAMN good show.

edit: blanket apology for insulting anyone...

[Hotrod]

I haven't watched much of DS9 in a long time, which is strange since I'm a huge trekkie...But what I have seen from it, I have absolutely loved. This thread has convinced me to go and watch it all though :)

[Nero]

I dont want to read everything but.... DS9 FTW. Stare trek FTW. non related: Stargate FTW (discluding universe*) =)

[Warsaw]

Babylon 5 is kind of what spurred Deep Space Nine. I like both, but I just prefer the more down to earth style of Babylon 5. Hell, when was the last time you saw Newtonian physics in a space opera?

[Rob Oplawar]

I decided not to do any work today and I'm already half way through the first season of Voyager. I'm enjoying it. :)

[Chainsy]

Oh my god I love this too! I had such a great connection with the characters, so much that I cry myself too sleep knowing I will never truly be in their universe. Broke my heart that Major Kira dies in the end saving the naboo peoples.

[Varmint260]

As I've said, I've seen only a little of DS9. I should really watch some more of it; I suspect if I start watching it from the beginning I'll like it even more. It's still pretty good even though all I've seen so far is fragments (episodes out of order, that sort of thing).

[Captain Pakundo]

What did you think about "Far Beyond The Stars"?


Season 6, episode 13...
Anyone?

[CN3089]

Thanks for the support Cojafoji, but I did ask for suggestions for other good shows.
I think what makes DS9 so great is the dynamic between all the characters. They are defined in terms of themselves, but also in terms of how they feel about each other, if that makes any sense.
I also started watching Battlestar Galactica a few months back, which is also fantastic. But I don't own the DVDs, and I have to wait for my friend to lend me each one, so I'm still just on season 2.

As soon as you watch s3e4 of battlestar stop watching it just gets worse

[CN3089]

also lol you watch star trek what are you 12

[paladin]

I saw the movie :iamafag:

[Kornman00]

I saw the porno

oh wait

[Warsaw]

I decided not to do any work today and I'm already half way through the first season of Voyager. I'm enjoying it. :)

Liked this series. It had some serious "wat" moments that shouldn't have been in a 90s show, but it was enjoyable.

[FreedomFighter7]

Nnnnnnnnnnneeeeeeerrrrrrrdddddddssssssssssssssss.

Lol jk, I kinda like Star Trek, but I find the show weird. The way they talk (Hell, the way people talk in most Sci Fi shows is weird, usually the alien races or foreign cultures off in space). It kinds bothers me that most of the stuff in the show is magic, no real scientific explanation. And whats with Sci Fi shows and using Crystals for anything requiring power or electronics needing repair?

[Cortexian]

Crystals would act similar to fiber optics I think, or at least I think that's their reasoning. However I don't see how they would act as data storage or control units in a typical sense, since fiber optics can currently only be used to transmit data and not store it.

Also, it looks cool.

[Rob Oplawar]

Not much of Star Trek is scientifically plausible. Just watch any one of the myriad time travel episodes. I still like it, tho. :)

[Cortexian]

Well it's almost impossible to say what's plausible or not when it comes to time travel, since our own understanding of it is beyond even the simplest understanding.

[Varmint260]

also lol you watch star trek what are you 12

You nevah too old to watch Stah Twek! :maddowns:

[Siliconmaster]

Wow, how did I miss this thread until now?

I've seen all of Trek, and I would definitely rate DS9 as the best of the series in terms of story-telling, writing, and characters. I love TNG, and I really liked Voyager by the end, but DS9 just feels much more polished. Plus it didn't suck its first two seasons (mostly referring to TNG, but Voyager took a little time getting its feet as well). I didn't mind the whole prophet/religion thing, as it was all pretty obviously explained as the wormhole aliens, right from the beginning. It may have been a bit mystical, but it never went beyond the realm of scifi, as some would argue BSG did.

Now an interesting viewpoint is TNG, DS9, and BSG as a trilogy of sorts. A lot of the same writers and producers, especially Ron Moore, were involved in all three, and each pays tribute to its predecessors. TNG was mostly episodic, with some long story arcs- I would classify this as "awesome". DS9 was far more serial in storytelling, and dealt with topics such as religion and character flaws, which were generally ignored in TNG, by order of Gene Roddenberry. This I classify as "serial awesome". Then, moving to BSG, it took the serial stortelling, placed it in a far grittier and more life-like atmosphere, and went even farther with those subjects. As such I see BSG as "refined awesome". I love all three, but each has its own better qualities. Idealism vs space opera vs grittiness.

Also, I grew up with Trek, and my entire moral system and the way I see the world has been shaped by what I watched as a child and what I still continue to watch. I can't think of a better franchise to learn from.

Edit: Oh, and did I mention my mom named all our dogs after Trek characters?

(In order of age): Keiko, Dax, Seven, Riker, Hoshi, Sisko, Kes, Jazz (short for Jadzia)

I love my family.

[n00b1n8R]

I've never watched star-treck in my life despite what all my friends assume, what's a good series to start with and why?

[Cortexian]

Also, I grew up with Trek, and my entire moral system and the way I see the world has been shaped by what I watched as a child and what I still continue to watch. I can't think of a better franchise to learn from.

Edit: Oh, and did I mention my mom named all our dogs after Trek characters?

(In order of age): Keiko, Dax, Seven, Riker, Hoshi, Sisko, Kes, Jazz (short for Jadzia)

I love my family.
Wow, I wish I had a cool family like that... http://freelancer.lancersedge.com/pics/crylancer.gif

[Siliconmaster]

I've never watched star-treck in my life despite what all my friends assume, what's a good series to start with and why?

Star Trek. :eng101:

I shall attempt to assist. To start, here's a visual diagram I made a while back- it needs to be updated with the newest movie, but other than that it's quite useful.

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9899/startrektimeline.jpg
Click for full size.

The original series (TOS) is classic Trek- it pioneered sci fi tv as we know it, and through its wacky universe examined social issues that would otherwise not be allowed past the critics. Theoretically this could be a good place to start, and they just released versions with redone special effects and HD transfers. However, it is campy (though a lot of fun), and if you want more serious plot-related stuff, I might suggest looking ahead.

The Next Generation (TNG) would be a good place to start with "modern" Trek. TNG, DS9, and VGR all take place in the same time period, and all influence each other since they overlapped. As such, starting with TNG and going through the next two would be a nice trilogy of series. Also, because all three take place almost a hundred years after TOS, there isn't a whole lot of history that's necessary from watching TOS first. Be warned though- the first two seasons of TNG are iffy at best; the real good stuff doesn't start until season 3, so bear with it until then.

Deep Space Nine (DS9) is probably the best series in terms of production values, and it is certainly watchable as a standalone, but it does often refer to things that happened in TNG, so it would help to see that first.

Voyager (VGR) is a lot of fun, and due to its plot also works as a standalone, but like DS9 would benefit greatly from having prior knowledge of the Trek universe.

Enterprise (ENT) was shit, with the exception of a few cool episodes. It takes place a century before any of the other Trek stuff, so I suppose it could be watched alone, but it's not really worth it.

The movies, as detailed in the timeline, reflect the series. 1-6 have to do with the TOS crew, and 7-10 use the TNG crew, during the time periods of DS9 and VGR.

The newest movie, "Star Trek", is both a sequel to all the stuff mentioned above AND a reboot, so it can be watched totally standalone. If you want a taste of the Trek universe without jumping in quite yet, this would be a good place to start. Just be ready to adjust your special effects standards down a bit if you go on from here, as this movie is state of the art and obviously blows away the much older stuff.

Hope this helps.

[Cortexian]

Well in my overall opinion of the series it's:

Voyager > Deep Space Nine > Enterprise > The Next Generation (but I've only watched S01/02 so far) > The Original Series.

[Siliconmaster]

Each has its own virtues. Here is my general overview- note that some of these are by very slim differences:

Storytelling: DS9>TNG/VGR> ENT> TOS
Characters: DS9>TNG/VGR/TOS > ENT
Special Effects/Action: ENT>DS9/VGR> TNG> TOS
Social Analysis: TOS>DS9/TNG>VRG > ENT(ignoring the few good 4th season episodes)
Production Value (my modern filmmaker eyes looking at it critically): DS9>TNG/VGR>TOS>ENT

So for overall production value, DS9 wins. For social and cultural significance and introspection, TOS wins. TNG and VGR tie in my mind for overall goodness- TNG's terribad first 2 seasons cancel out VGR's slightly less overall value. ENT wins for modern action-spectacle, but it didn't have good enough plot or characters to really make an impact on me. Also, placing DS9 above TNG and VGR is a fairly small measure- I love all three of them.

[Warsaw]

DS9 was far more serial in storytelling, and dealt with topics such as religion and character flaws, which were generally ignored in TNG, by order of Gene Roddenberry. This I classify as "serial awesome".

Except DS9 always ended on the up and up in those controversial episodes until the last couple of seasons, where it started getting really interesting (probably because these were after Roddenberry died). That's what made me give DS9 the :raise:.

[Siliconmaster]

Except DS9 always ended on the up and up in those controversial episodes until the last couple of seasons, where it started getting really interesting (probably because these were after Roddenberry died). That's what made me give DS9 the :raise:.

Actually, Roddenberry died before DS9 started. It was the first series not to have him directly involved. The fact that season 1 dealt with religion and politics so much was a huge break from the stuff TNG did. They may have overdone it a bit, but they found a good balance fairly quickly IMO.

[Warsaw]

Actually, Roddenberry died before DS9 started. It was the first series not to have him directly involved. The fact that season 1 dealt with religion and politics so much was a huge break from the stuff TNG did. They may have overdone it a bit, but they found a good balance fairly quickly IMO.

Well, there was an episode in DS9 that dealt with religion and a medical condition that couldn't be treated without violating the religion. There was a similar episode in B5. In DS9, the people healed were understanding and left all happy. In B5, they held to their beliefs and killed their child because they though his soul was now lost.

Which one do you think carried the message more effectively?

[Siliconmaster]

Well, there was an episode in DS9 that dealt with religion and a medical condition that couldn't be treated without violating the religion. There was a similar episode in B5. In DS9, the people healed were understanding and left all happy. In B5, they held to their beliefs and killed their child because they though his soul was now lost.

Which one do you think carried the message more effectively?

Ok, you win on that one. I don't want to dive into the DS9 vs B5 controversy though. Having never seen B5 myself, I just take DS9 for what it is. For people who have no idea what we're talking about, Babylon 5 and Deep Space Nine ran at the same time, and were both about a space station. After mid-series, they became less and less similar, but there was a major split of viewers, and a lot of people feel they stole ideas from one another. I can't make any sort of judgment, having only seen DS9, but that's what I know about it.

Edit: Point #2- a lot of Trekkies didn't like DS9 because it went much farther outside the established Trek principles than other stuff. All Trek has that sort of idealistic viewpoint- as dark as it gets, there is always some light. DS9 pushed that, but it never broke it, whereas BSG flipped it and said, ok, what if there is no light- how would humanity react? So, while I agree that in some cases DS9 didn't go far enough,
hinting that the Federation wasn't as perfect as it seemed, and that the utopia of the Trek universe was unrealistic
was a pretty daring place to go solely in a Trek context.

[Atty]

I own and have watched all the episodes of Star Trek, The Next Generation, and Voyager, ontop of all the movies. Never watched an episode of DS9 tho. My mother has been bugging me to pick it up for her tho, maybe I will, and then steal it and watch it myself.

[Warsaw]

Fun Fact: JMS was behind the reboot and rewrite of the Trek universe that culminated in the awesome J.J. Abrams movie. :cool:

So in the end, the B5 vs. Trek argument is null and void.

[Siliconmaster]

Fun Fact: JMS was behind the reboot and rewrite of the Trek universe that culminated in the awesome J.J. Abrams movie. :cool:

So in the end, the B5 vs. Trek argument is null and void.

Ok, that works for me. :v:

[CN3089]

the only star trek things worth watching are the newest movie and maybe some of deep space 9


I guess one or two of the original series movies were good too but that's only because of The Shatner

[Kornman00]

I guess I'm the only one who liked Enterprise :nsmug:

[Cojafoji]

I guess I'm the only one who liked Enterprise :nsmug:
Yeah, Enterprise is pretty much seen as the half aborted bastard child of the Star Trek franchise...

[Rob Oplawar]

Incidentally, I forget, was it TNG or Voyager that had the first lesbian kiss aired on TV? :-3

[Hotrod]

I guess I'm the only one who liked Enterprise :nsmug:
No sir, I also enjoyed it :) Actually, I was saddened by the fact that they stopped making Enterprise...

[Varmint260]

I'm currently going through the third season of Enterprise. It's definitely a decent action/sci-fi show, but I do have a lot of trouble linking it to anything else Star Trek.

Hopefully some time soon I'll be able to get DS9 and start watching it right from the beginning. That bit I mentioned earlier about that whole "Prophet thing" that bothered me might not so much if I can put it in a better context. From the random episodes I've seen completely out of order, context can kiss its ass goodbye for the moment.

That and I'll have to try a comparison between it and Babylon 5 since I've got all of it on DVD. I wasn't aware they were running at the same time.

[Kornman00]

Yeah, ENT was a new breed of Star Trek. I felt the change was good and mature for the new time frame which reality was/is in.

Too bad it had to get canned :|

Incidentally, I forget, was it TNG or Voyager that had the first lesbian kiss aired on TV? :-3
Actually neither it seems.

DS9's Rejoined: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_in_Star_Trek#Notable_episodes

[Siliconmaster]

Yeah, ENT was a new breed of Star Trek. I felt the change was good and mature for the new time frame which reality was/is in.

Too bad it had to get canned :|

Actually neither it seems.

DS9's Rejoined: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_in_Star_Trek#Notable_episodes

You ninja'd me on the kiss reference.

What I didn't like about Enterprise was that they tried to appeal far too much to the demographics- action, girls (though Voyager did that too, with 7 of 9), etc. I'm not saying it didn't have its good episodes- it certainly did, especially mid-season 4. But the writers could never quite figure out where they wanted to go, so the series never felt like it was cohesive. Take the temporal cold war for instance. After 3 years of lead-up, it was tied up almost offhandedly in a single episode. In addition, there were some real terrible episodes, far more compared to the good ones than the other series. It's not that I don't respect it as a good try, but it could have been handled far better.

[Rob Oplawar]

Yeah, ENT was a new breed of Star Trek. I felt the change was good and mature for the new time frame which reality was/is in.

Too bad it had to get canned :|

Actually neither it seems.

DS9's Rejoined: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_in_Star_Trek#Notable_episodes

D'oh, I meant to say TNG or DS9. My mind gets confused. :S

[Kornman00]

concentrate on getting that replicator back online Chief :sci101:

that being said, Miles is the only Warrant officer I ever saw in Star Trek :raise:. I think TOS may have had some but afterwards...poof! Kind of funny how commisioned officer types are the majority in the future instead of enlisted or non-commisioned types.

At least they use one freaking service uniform. America, you could learn from this! And from the Germans. Waste of tax cash with all these different branch uniforms :|

EDIT: Whoops. Technically, Miles was a Petty Officer (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Warrant_officer#Warrant_Officers). Which throws me in a loop, because I don't know why someone would trade out their commission for something of "lower" value...

[Cojafoji]

concentrate on getting that replicator back online Chief :sci101:

that being said, Miles is the only Warrant officer I ever saw in Star Trek :raise:. I think TOS may have had some but afterwards...poof! Kind of funny how commisioned officer types are the majority in the future instead of enlisted or non-commisioned types.

At least they use one freaking service uniform. America, you could learn from this! And from the Germans. Waste of tax cash with all these different branch uniforms :|

EDIT: Whoops. Technically, Miles was a Petty Officer (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Warrant_officer#Warrant_Officers). Which throws me in a loop, because I don't know why someone would trade out their commission for something of "lower" value...
it's not really shown off, but the enlisted men in star fleet are everywhere.

remember worfs dad? he was chief petty officer on the uss intrepid.

[Cortexian]

You cannot post below this line unless you have a Star Trek avatar.

[Nero]

The dotted line?

[English Mobster]

Is Vader going to have to choke a bitch?

[Cortexian]

Can't choke a hologram!

http://www.modacity.net/forums/images/customavatars/avatar125_56.gif

[Kornman00]

Is Vader going to have to choke a bitch?
careful there Vader

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/force.png

[Hotrod]

This counts as a Star Trek avatar, yes? :)

[Cojafoji]

best character. ever.

[Siliconmaster]

best character. ever.

Quaaaaarrrk!

[Kornman00]

Aerowyn needs to change her avatar to Dax

:allears:

[Siliconmaster]

Aerowyn needs to change her avatar to Dax

:allears:

Jadzia or Ezri? I like both, but my vote is for Jadzia.

[Kornman00]

Hmmmmm, I think Jadzia would fit her best


but Jadzia is kinda dead :saddowns:

[Siliconmaster]

Oy, spoilers. ^