French draft bill to fine burqa-wearing women

[Abdurahman]

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU FRANCE? :saddowns: 99% of those burqa wearing women do it out if their own free will. France is supposedly a freedom country, then why force people what to wear? It's not fair. It started with not allowing muslim women to wear headscarves in schools. What do they have against muslims?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100107/lf_afp/francepoliticsreligionislamwomenrights

PARIS (AFP) – Muslim women who wear the full Islamic veil in France will face a possible 750-euro (1,000-dollar) fine, according to a draft bill unveiled Thursday by the leader of the parliamentary majority.
Jean-Francois Cope, who heads the governing UMP party in the National Assembly, told Le Figaro newspaper's weekly magazine that men who force their wives to wear the burqa or niqab could face an even heavier fine.
"The law will address an issue of security," Cope said in an interview with the magazine.
"The proposed measure would prohibit the covering of the face in public places and on the streets, with the exception of special cultural events or carnivals."
The draft legislation will be presented in the next two weeks and should come up for debate in parliament after the March regional elections, he said.
The majority leader, who is also openly campaigning to succeed President Nicolas Sarkozy as the right-wing candidate for the presidency in 2017, said the burqa must be banned to defend women's rights.
"We can measure the modernity of a society by the way it treats and respects women," he said.
France's political establishment is divided on whether to ban the burqa, with the opposition Socialists this week saying that it opposed a law even though Muslim women must be discouraged from wearing the full veil.
The burqa debate has heated up ahead of the release at the end of the month of a much-awaited report by a parliamentary panel that has conducted six months of hearings on the issue.
Many politicians from the left and right have cautioned that a draconian law banning the head-to-toe veil would be difficult to enforce and probably face a challenge in the European rights court.
Sarkozy himself has said that the burqa is not welcome in France but has not stated publicly whether legislation should be enacted.
Critics argue that a specific law enacted to ban the full veil would be tantamount to using a sledgehammer to swat a fly. Only 1,900 women wear the full veil in France, according to the interior ministry.
In the interview, Cope argued that a law would act as a deterrent by sending a "clear message" that France will not allow women to fully cover themselves.

[Cagerrin]

dunno what's so terribly wrong with it

[Abdurahman]

dunno what's so terribly wrong with it

I know right? It's just clothes that they choose to wear.

[legionaire45]

France is a police state. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HADOPI_law)

We'd be going down this road if we had a majority of wingnut right-wing fuckheads in office right now as well. Several GOP Senators have already suggested deporting various middle eastern groups after the recent terror attack on christmas...can't find the link but I remember seeing it.

[CrAsHOvErRide]

Same thing with prostitutes in America.

[Cagerrin]

I know right? It's just clothes that they choose to wear.
not what I meant. guess I'm just not a big fan of religions that believe killing "infidels" to be a god-given task.

[Abdurahman]

not what I meant. guess I'm just not a big fan of religions that believe killing "infidels" to be a god-given task.


You see, you have been swayed by what the media tells you. 99.9999% of muslims are not this way. It's that 0.000001% that's crazy stupid shitheads that go blow up stuff in the name of islam. Well that's wrong. I'm a muslim, and I was taught to be nice to everyone. Christians, Jews, gay people, athiests, everyone. I have o hatred toward anyone. And that's how most muslims feel. The media uses those damn suicide bombers to describe over 1 billion people. It's just not right.

And the infidel thing? Muslims never say that. It's just something made up by the media.
If you have ever read the Quran or any religious teaching, it says nothing about killing infidels. Absolutely zilch!

[Cagerrin]

don't really want to get into a debate here, 's hard to debate unless I actually hate the person I'm debating. My views don't really have anything to do with the media, more with the whole centuries of persecution thing.

guess this makes another "people are smart, humanity is stupid" example.

[neuro]

france is the dumb shit kid of europe who thinks he's da man because he's giving witty answers to questions but instead everyone thinks he's a dumb cunt.

tl'dr: it's france, they're like the america of europe.

[Cagerrin]

france is the dumb shit kid of europe who thinks he's da man because he's giving witty answers to questions but instead everyone thinks he's a dumb cunt.

tl'dr: it's france, they're like the america of europe.
I thought france was the kid whose parents always scold him for losing his lunch money because he's too much of a wuss to fight off the bullies.

[Good_Apollo]

You see, you have been swayed by what the media tells you. 99.9999% of muslims are not this way. It's that 0.000001% that's crazy stupid shitheads that go blow up stuff in the name of islam. Well that's wrong. I'm a muslim, and I was taught to be nice to everyone. Christians, Jews, gay people, athiests, everyone. I have o hatred toward anyone. And that's how most muslims feel. The media uses those damn suicide bombers to describe over 1 billion people. It's just not right.

And the infidel thing? Muslims never say that. It's just something made up by the media.
If you have ever read the Quran or any religious teaching, it says nothing about killing infidels. Absolutely zilch!
You're completely wrong about this part. However, it's nothing unique to the Qur'an.

I have mixed feelings about this law. On one point it's just clothes and who cares? Another is it's part of a culture and they have no right to discriminate upon a non-violent aspect of it. On another in it's entirety is the whole thing with the men forcing their wives or whatever to wear it, which is in turn part of their culture, yet infringing on the womens' basic rights, and yet part of their freedom of choice to choose to listen to their husbands. So...I don't think there's a clear yes/no answer to this dilemma. :raise:

[Heathen]

Its stupid that they are making laws against types of clothes. They may just do it because they want to. And even if they didn't, who are they to say what they wear regardless of the reason.

[CN3089]

france owns but they're also catholic/atheist as h*ck (something like 90% of france falls into one of those two categories)

[Limited]

Jeez, its a security issue guys...

To be honest, I dont think the law should be in place however, if a policeman insists on seeing a womens face (to check her passport, or identity card, or for security reasons) then she should have to.

If she declines, she should kindly get the fuck out of France.

Same should apply to England, I'm tired of them fucking up our system, causing issues when its fucking double standards.

[SnaFuBAR]

You're completely wrong about this part. However, it's nothing unique to the Qur'an.

mostly it's about defending your right to practice your faith. imo infringing on anyone's faith by way of law is just asking for trouble.

[Limited]

mostly it's about defending your right to practice your faith. imo infringing on anyone's faith by way of law is just asking for trouble.
Remember that freedom of religion is also freedom from religion.

[Abdurahman]

To be honest, I dont think the law should be in place however, if a policeman insists on seeing a womens face (to check her passport, or identity card, or for security reasons) then she should have to.



I completely agree.

[Cojafoji]

mostly it's about defending your right to practice your faith. imo infringing on anyone's faith by way of law is just asking for trouble.
yeah, most of the text in the book is regarding defense of yourself, your people, your land, and your religion.

that being said, I think that this law is a little iffy. especially under french constitutional law...

do I support it? no.

does it make sense? yes.

edit: no person should be forced to reveal any part of themselves to ANYONE, not even a police officer. revealing their face, in my opinion, is more like an unlawful search than anything else...

[Phopojijo]

I thought france was the kid whose parents always scold him for losing his lunch money because he's too much of a wuss to fight off the bullies.Worked great in Vietnam.

[Heathen]

I completely agree.

As do I.

Limited is spot on today.

[SnaFuBAR]

Remember that freedom of religion is also freedom from religion.

So how does that in any way justify infringing on people's beliefs and free choices? Don't wanna wear the burqa? Don't. Wanna wear the burqa? too fucking bad, the frenchie politicians say no.


See where it went wrong? The law is just bullshit and an infringement on actual freedom. It's a second law specifically targeting Muslim women. Not only is it sexism, it's anti-religious. There's nothing right about this law.

[Phopojijo]

Jeez, its a security issue guys...

To be honest, I dont think the law should be in place however, if a policeman insists on seeing a womens face (to check her passport, or identity card, or for security reasons) then she should have to.

If she declines, she should kindly get the fuck out of France.

Same should apply to England, I'm tired of them fucking up our system, causing issues when its fucking double standards.The law is likely for video surveillance.

[ICEE]

France has always been the worst country. Their like a little copycat who manages to do everything wrong.

America has a revolution to gain independence from britain?

France is inspired by this, and has a revolution where they slaughter countless innocent people out of paranoia

America racially profiles muslims?

France assfucks them with laws like this.

and they say we're the barbarians

[SnaFuBAR]

The law is likely for video surveillance.

YOU ARE UNDER SURVEILLANCE. BECAUSE YOU ARE A POTENTIAL CRIMINAL. PERHAPS YOU SECRETLY DOUBT THE SANCTITY OF CORPORATE PROPERTY, OR THE VALIDITY OF LAWS MADE BY THE RICH TO GOVERN THE POOR, OR THE SOUNDNESS OF CAPITALISM ITSELF-WE CAN'T AFFORD TO ASSUME YOU DON'T.

bullshit law.

[Heathen]

So they should make anything obscuring your face illegal?

Thats pretty stupid imo.
If someone was going to break a law, they would cover their face regardless of the law prohibiting it.

Thats like making guns illegal. People willing to use guns to commit crimes are going to be quite comfortable with breaking the law to get the guns if they are willing to commit a crime. If they are going to commit a crime, they're going to break the "no face thingies" law anyways.

[Warsaw]

If there's a law about it, it lets them pull you over for covering your face, thus theoretically preventing you from committing the crime you were covering your face for.

Yeah, it's twisted.

[CN3089]

France has always been the worst country. Their like a little copycat who manages to do everything wrong.

America has a revolution to gain independence from britain?

France is inspired by this, and has a revolution where they slaughter countless innocent people out of paranoia

America racially profiles muslims?

France assfucks them with laws like this.

and they say we're the barbarians
you are dumb as fuck and your revolution would have been crushed if it wasn't for france hth

[Limited]

So they should make anything obscuring your face illegal?

Thats pretty stupid imo.
You'd think so yeah? Sadly a shopping mall place in England has banned hoodies, because aL they hide the persons face and b: apparently people who wear hoodies are all yobs who do anti-social stuff.

Also snaf, I was just putting that bit of info out, didnt mean to imply it to the burqa thing.

Also, we've had this discussion before on the right to wear religious items. I think people should be able to do whatever, as long as it doesnt break the law. But the I press for even more, is equality. You might remember me mentioning years ago about the Christian lady that got fired at an airport for wearing a small necklace with a cross on it at work, due to the fact they couldnt press religion on people or something. Whilst a Muslim lady was able to wear a full burqa with no issues. What the hell?


edit: no person should be forced to reveal any part of themselves to ANYONE, not even a police officer. revealing their face, in my opinion, is more like an unlawful search than anything else...
Oh please dont be pathetic. So your saying a terrorist should just walk through security at an airport? Because A, when they look at your passport, they have to check its you. Which is done by the photo of your face.

You might have to have a strip search to make sure your not hiding any bombs or anything illegal.

Your saying, even national security shouldnt be able to enforce it? Wow.

[ICEE]

you are dumb as fuck and your revolution would have been crushed if it wasn't for france hth

Did I ever deny that?

btw, if you read my posts with an entirely serious overtone then it is you who is dumb as fuck

hth kk

[Abdurahman]

Whether it be muslim, jew, or christian, people should be free to express their religion as they like, not as the government sees it.

[Warsaw]

Did I ever deny that?

btw, if you read my posts with an entirely serious overtone then it is you who is dumb as fuck

hth kk

Not to mentioned the U.S. already returned the favour by helping France out of two World Wars. :-3

[ICEE]

AND by being reliable consumers of their god damn fries and toast

[rossmum]

Remember that freedom of religion is also freedom from religion.
it is not, however, freedom from moral responsibility. yes, there should be certain circumstances where they show their faces - all security or general law-enforcement related. no, that should not extend into 'i want to see your face, show me it because i don't give a fuck about religion'.

picking out muslims for extra security is pretty bullshit. ironically only the younger generation of my family seem to realise this; in my book, westboro baptists, as well as any other conservative christians who are obsessed with forcing their views down everyone else's throats, are no better than the taliban. the only difference is that they're too dumb and generally too small to organise any kind of worthwhile armed resistance and/or offensive capability.

if i had my way, extremism of any kind would get you a one-way ticket to fuck off land. let it be someone else's issue, moderation is the way to roll.

e/ by the way 9mm like airport security does fuck all but make nice long lines of people ripe for blowing up. i'm going to get fucked over because various us agencies put bullshit kneejerk measures in place that do fuck all to stop terrorists and do plenty to cover the arses of useless morons who somehow ended up in charge of discordant establishments which don't communicate. the fact clinton couldn't get the fbi and cia to co-operate and take down bin laden and his cronies before 9/11 even happened just goes to show america's real attitude towards national security. nothing is sacred except the agency boss's precious position.

seriously i'm no aeronautical engineer, i'm not even a sapper, but i can think up many, many ways of foxing airport security and blowing up security lines and/or planes. i know it suits these ignorant fucknuts to imagine al qaeda as monkeys in pyjamas, but we all know what happened the last time the intel heads thought that about someone. these guys are smart, obviously smarter than their opponents, and they're determined as only extremist nutjobs can be.

[TeeKup]

Rossmum, don't leave ever again. D:


you are dumb as fuck and your revolution would have been crushed if it wasn't for france hth

I find it funny that people always overlook this little fact concerning the U.S.'s history. L2history fellow 'mericans...

Btw, I do not agree with this law in the slightest.

[Limited]

Totally agree Ross, security probably does little to actually stop terrorists. Most of it is just for show, to make the public think "oh, they are trying to catch them and I feel safer".

[CrAsHOvErRide]

Did I ever deny that?

btw, if you read my posts with an entirely serious overtone then it is you who is dumb as fuck

hth kk

Get the facts right. America did not had a peaceful revolution either.


Totally agree Ross, security probably does little to actually stop terrorists. Most of it is just for show, to make the public think "oh, they are trying to catch them and I feel safer".

Elevated security also shows the terrorists that they are being taken serious which anticipates them to do even more.


This is all a question of viewpoint. It depends from what perspective you see it so debating is worthless since you could start with the crusades and when you look back then, all their action in today's world is justified. We killed them, took their land, forced a new religion upon them and now we are being revenged. It all depends on the view.

[rossmum]

The best part is that a few thousand years ago all the major religions were chill with each other.

CHAOS THEORY :haw:

[=sw=warlord]

if i had my way, extremism of any kind would get you a one-way ticket to fuck off land. let it be someone else's issue, moderation is the way to roll.

Hey rossmum, wasn't that the name australia once had anyways?
We could always take your advice and send all the crap to the former prison island again.:-3

Whether it be muslim, jew, or christian, people should be free to express their religion as they like, not as the government sees it.
Even if that involves killing thousands of civilians?

[n00b1n8R]

This is a stupid racist sexist law that should not be passed.
What should be passed is a law requiring all citizens to reveal their faces to law officials if requested.

[TVTyrant]

you are dumb as fuck and your revolution would have been crushed if it wasn't for france hth
So? And that means we like their decisions now? Its barely even the same country. That was two World Wars, Napoleon and a revolution ago.

Additionally, ICEE's statements were pretty far out there.

[Abdurahman]

Even if that involves killing thousands of civilians?


No, no I meant like wearing whatever religious clothes they want and stuff. Not extremism or killing people! Sorry if I caused a misunderstanding.

[Bodzilla]

This is a stupid racist sexist law that should not be passed.
What should be passed is a law requiring all citizens to reveal their faces to law officials if requested.
My thoughts on this matter.

Look it's very very touchy ground, we know the french is doing it for racism, they've had a bit of a history with this, but the burqa is an abomination.

it's just a matter of how you deal with it without stepping on human rights, because it's obvious the reasons why it started and for most of it's continued use in society.
how do you attack this thing that is the very symbol of oppressed women without stepping on freedom of expression.

touchy, touchy subject.

[SnaFuBAR]

Even if that involves killing thousands of civilians?

I am currently unaware of any religion in which the regular practice is wholesale slaughter of civilians! Please enlighten me!


My thoughts on this matter.

the burqa is an abomination.

because it's obvious the reasons why it started and for most of it's continued use in society.
how do you attack this thing that is the very symbol of oppressed women without stepping on freedom of expression.

touchy, touchy subject.

iirc the burqa was around before islam, probalby because of the Bedouins. the burqa isn't even mentioned in the qu'ran :allears:

hmm yes a symbol of opression rather than culture because western media and friends says so!

[rossmum]

wow snaf, thanks for the info. i guess the taliban were on some serious crack when they saw fit to make it law... well actually, perhaps serious heroin...

i miss our long discussions bro

[TVTyrant]

The Taliban have influence on people living their lives in France who work professional jobs? When did this start?

[rossmum]

the taliban made women wear the burqa yet snaf has just informed us that it wasn't even mentioned in the qu'ran. i was pondering at what kind of incredibly convoluted bullshit reasoning they would've had to use to enforce its wearing since it's not a religious thing. keep up.

[ICEE]

holy fuck guys. was not serious. sheesh

[Bodzilla]

I am currently unaware of any religion in which the regular practice is wholesale slaughter of civilians! Please enlighten me!



iirc the burqa was around before islam, probalby because of the Bedouins. the burqa isn't even mentioned in the qu'ran :allears:

hmm yes a symbol of opression rather than culture because western media and friends says so!
i said culture, not religion.

there are many women that wear this of there own free will, there are many who dont, and there are alot more that are conditioned to wear it.

[SnaFuBAR]

i said culture, not religion.

there are many women that wear this of there own free will, there are many who dont, and there are alot more that are conditioned to wear it.

ah, but you didn't say culture! :neckbeard: i merely let that be up in the air so i could make my own point :-3

[Good_Apollo]

the taliban made women wear the burqa yet snaf has just informed us that it wasn't even mentioned in the qu'ran. i was pondering at what kind of incredibly convoluted bullshit reasoning they would've had to use to enforce its wearing since it's not a religious thing. keep up.Why does it have to be a religious aspect? It's simply part of the culture, controversial by today's standards or not.

[SnaFuBAR]

it's just stupid ass european mentality that has existed forever. "i don't like your culture so i'm going to force you to change it".

ps the only thing the crusaders brought back with them from the middle east was civilization. had they not gone there they'd still be throwing buckets of shit out of their windows into the streets.

[=sw=warlord]

I am currently unaware of any religion in which the regular practice is wholesale slaughter of civilians! Please enlighten me!



There are many extremist religions and cultures that would be glad to have absolute free will over what they do, which happens to involve culling those who do not follow their beliefs, Rodesia otherwise known as zimbabwe has it's anti white government and britian has its BNP party for instance.

Im not being racist here but if every form of religion was to be given a free ticket to do what ever it wanted to preach unchalleneged then we would not only see alot more murder in the name of god/goddess/ancestors and what ever else people worship.
We would also see a rise in "new" religions so people could get away with breaking several laws negatively affecting many peoples lives all under the name of a faith.
One other thing to note, before saying im a "typical westerner" who believes everything the media says i would like to point out i rarely ever read the news because its nearly always the same polluted bullshit which has the sole purpose of causing contraversy to gain funding which always curbs it self from the more important news.
But this was the comment i was reffering to since you asked.


Whether it be muslim, jew, or christian, people should be free to express their religion as they like, not as the government sees it.
There have been crusades in the past and there will most likely be more in the future, just happens to be now, no one is using bow and arrows instead their using AK-47's and RPG's.

[Limited]

it's just stupid ass european mentality that has existed forever. "i don't like your culture so i'm going to force you to change it".
That is the complete opposite. Your stating Americas view on the rest of the world.

Even in places that allow the burqa, if I went into a shop with a full robe type thing that covered me completely and every part of my face apart from my eyes. Its nearly certain I would be asked to leave the store as they'd think I was trouble, either shoplifting or even worse.

So how come I'm not allowed to, but other people are? What happens if I just wanted to wear it because I did, and not for religious beliefs.

[CrAsHOvErRide]

Im not being racist here but if every form of religion...
lul wut

[=sw=warlord]

lul wut
I've had several people call me racist before when mentioning the same thing.
Pretty stupid and petty top be honest but still, i would rather point out that than have some jackass try and call me racist.

[rossmum]

Why does it have to be a religious aspect? It's simply part of the culture, controversial by today's standards or not.
um, because the taliban were religious extremists whose laws were supposedly in place for religious reasons?

of course if you're referring to it in general, disregard this


That is the complete opposite. Your stating Americas view on the rest of the world.
hahahaah nope sorry pretty sure it was european settlers who basically wiped out the canadian and american native population and then forced their culture upon them as well while treating them like second class citizens, europeans who basically wiped out and then abducted and assimilated the australian aborigines, europeans who traded slaves from africa and the pacific islands, and europeans who travelled the world trying to convert 'the heathens' to christianity whether they liked it or not

check yoself before you wreck yoself

[ICEE]

That is the complete opposite. Your stating Americas view on the rest of the world.

Even in places that allow the burqa, if I went into a shop with a full robe type thing that covered me completely and every part of my face apart from my eyes. Its nearly certain I would be asked to leave the store as they'd think I was trouble, either shoplifting or even worse.

So how come I'm not allowed to, but other people are? What happens if I just wanted to wear it because I did, and not for religious beliefs.

Guys, it is FACT that it is in our nature to try and stigmatize anyone who comes off as different in our society. Pointing the finger at other countries and saying "why do you do this" is idiocy. Every group does it. Of course there are the individuals who take the enlightened route, but in mass numbers people are ignorant, selfish fucks who are susceptible to suggestion and paranoid out the ass. The key here, is to keep it out of our government. Clearly, France has not managed this. Now I don't pretend to know much about other countries' governments, but ill be the first to admit I've seen it happen in US government too (try boarding a plane, dark colored people).

[Dwood]

to make the public think "oh, they are trying to catch them and I feel safer".

I don't feel safer with all this security. In fact, it puts me on edge. Especially when I get patted down without even setting off the metal detector. (happened) Especially when I have to take off my shoes just to get to the plane. Especially when I can't take any of my prescription bottles with me because they're larger than the limit. I feel even LESS secure when I see 80-year-old ladies getting the pat-down just because the TSA staff had a quota of pat downs to fill.

You know, I feel COMPLETELY UNSAFE when i hear right after I go through the mess of Airport Security (via the tvs the airport provides) that some guy just ducked under the tapes, passing right by all security without so much as a 2nd glance, without even going through the metal detector!

This, my friends, is (one of the reasons) why I'm getting my pilot's license, so I don't have to deal with that bs.

[SnaFuBAR]

There have been crusades in the past and there will most likely be more in the future, just happens to be now, no one is using bow and arrows instead their using AK-47's and RPG's.

actually the "crusaders" (if you're implying crusade is happening) are using m4's and other "allied" equipment, not ak-47's and rpg's.:raise:


That is the complete opposite. Your stating Americas view on the rest of the world.

Even in places that allow the burqa, if I went into a shop with a full robe type thing that covered me completely and every part of my face apart from my eyes. Its nearly certain I would be asked to leave the store as they'd think I was trouble, either shoplifting or even worse.

So how come I'm not allowed to, but other people are? What happens if I just wanted to wear it because I did, and not for religious beliefs.

Actually no i'm stating historical fact that has been in practice since around the 11th century :ugh:

Also, yeah a man completely covered head to to with only his eyes showing tends to be a sign of trouble! HOWEVER, reacting that way to a female who is dressed that way out of cultural practice is completely asinine and xenophobic!

[=sw=warlord]

actually the "crusaders" (if you're implying crusade is happening) are using m4's and other "allied" equipment, not ak-47's and rpg's.:raise:

I was under the impression the original reason for britain [note:britain] to be in afghanistan was to try and curb the whole drugs importation problem not to attack that particular culture.
I don't know what the general concenus is over there but over here people don't really care about what creed your from as long as you keep to your self.
Might just be the limited locations i've lived in thats like that but my general impression from southern as well as midland England is that you can be of what ever greed, culture you like as long as you don't try and impress those believes on those not interested, the taliban how ever seem to dislike people who do not believe in the same religion and feel that different opinions are wrong.
That Snafuher is what i mean about crusades.

Actually no i'm stating historical fact that has been in practice since around the 11th century :ugh:
Romans did exactly same thing.

Also, yeah a man completely covered head to to with only his eyes showing tends to be a sign of trouble! HOWEVER, reacting that way to a female who is dressed that way out of cultural practice is completely asinine and xenophobic!
Unless of course you are required to show facial features for security reasons, which you your self mentions should be perfectly fine.

Dress how ever you like, you could dress as chucky the clown but for a fair bit of time the "minorities" have had a fair bit leway in some respects.
Take for example, how is it that black people can call other people Niggers, porch monkeys and other racial slang but as soon as someone who is white will get burned and scorned for using the exact same words?
I am willing to guess this is partialy why this law came out in france,It's sexist yes, it's racist yes, but then again so are alot of other laws out there who no one even batters a eye lid to.
I won't argue this really isnt the way to equalise things, im not here to argue but that's my perspective of things..

[Limited]

If some one can do it under religious beliefs, people should be able to do it without religious beliefs, its a double standard other wise.

[Roostervier]

If some one can do it under religious beliefs, people should be able to do it without religious beliefs, its a double standard other wise.
wait im confused


Even in places that allow the burqa, if I went into a shop with a full robe type thing that covered me completely and every part of my face apart from my eyes. Its nearly certain I would be asked to leave the store as they'd think I was trouble, either shoplifting or even worse.
you mean youd get asked to leave even though you werent wearing it for religion, and this entire thread is about how they just forced everyone who was wearing it for religion to leave the store too, and youre angry about double standards? looks like they picked a solution right up your alley to me!!

[Limited]

Firstly, its not everyone, its women. Secondly, Muslim people can wear it and *currently* 'get away with it', whilst I can not.

What the fuck.

This brings me to the issue of over compensating, political correctness gone mad. Like the whole Muslim can wear their thing, but a Christian gets fired for wearing a small necklace.

[Roostervier]

well most likely its because the reason you'd be doing it is about a hundred times shadier and its the owners store so they can tell you to fuck off if they want (depending on certain laws i guess)

[=sw=warlord]

Something fairly interesting.

Burqas in History

While the burqa is often associated with the Islamic faith, its history actually predates Islam by thousands of years. The earliest known instance of women veiling their faces is found in the Assyrian empire, which dates back to 5000 BC.
Although not all women veiled their faces during the empire; the veil developed as a way to keep aristocratic women separate from the masses, especially the slave women and the prostitutes. If slave women or prostitutes were found veiling their faces, they would be publically lashed. Other cultures favoured the veil for upper class women; The Byzantine Christian women of Persia, the Rajput women in India and many in classical Greek society.
Islam (http://islam.suite101.com/article.cfm/islam) started in Mecca, through the teachings of the Islamic prophet, Mohamed (570 – 632 A.D.) As the religion spread, it came into contact with other customs and cultures. Often times the local customs were adopted and made part of the Islamic faith, not the other way around. Face veiling was a custom adopted by Islam, not organic to it. For the first 100 years of Islam, Muslim women did not veil their faces.

http://middleeasternaffairs.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_burqa_controversy

[Limited]

well most likely its because the reason you'd be doing it is about a hundred times shadier and its the owners store so they can tell you to fuck off if they want (depending on certain laws i guess)
They shouldnt assume, either assume everyone is, or no one. All I want is equality.

[=sw=warlord]

well most likely its because the reason you'd be doing it is about a hundred times shadier and its the owners store so they can tell you to fuck off if they want (depending on certain laws i guess)
You can't though, because you say the same thing to someone practicing a faith and they can call the race/religion card on you.

[Roostervier]

thats why its their decision if they want to or not. every time they tell someone to leave they run that risk.

[=sw=warlord]

thats why its their decision if they want to or not. every time they tell someone to leave they run that risk.
And why should race or creed have anything to do with a staff member asking someone to leave the store?
If they don't want the person in the store because they look shadey it shouldn't have some wildcard used everytime.

[rossmum]

I've seen it happen in US government too (try boarding a plane, dark colored people).
can attest to this. dad had black hair, moustache, brown eyes, and after living in australia for so long, a tan. he looked kinda like saddam at one point.

mum, my sister and i all have blonde hair. they have green eyes, mine are blue. we got passed through without so much as a second glance. dad? nope.

'we don't racially profile' - the us

[n00b1n8R]

My dad has a decent ammount of beard and always gets pulled up at airports. :downs:

[SnaFuBAR]

funny i walk through security and cops at the airport wearing a goatee and stubble, etc, and i never even get glanced at >>

must be that italian name.

[ICEE]

I have a beard and I make it through the checks just fine.


Oh wait, my beard is red.