DRM's next victim: BioShock 2

[flibitijibibo]

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/52531/BioShock-2-DRM-System-Requirements-Revealed


Steam buyers will have to be logged in to Valve's service, wait for BioShock 2 to unlock, undergo SecuRom activation (and install limits too, most likely), then log in to Games For Windows Live once the game has loaded, and then use it exclusively for multiplayer. With all multiplayer GFWL setups being less than great to date, I have to say that my pessimism for BioShock 2's multiplayer mode has just gone up a notch.

Update: Steam and SecuRom reveal that there is a "15 machine activation limit" on each copy of BioShock 2.

Update #2: The "machine activation limit" has been lowered to 5.Apparently you have to be in GFWL to save as well.

SecuROM still exists? Fuck this shit. I really wanted to buy the vinyl edition, but you had to go and fuck it up, AGAIN. I'm not letting you morons torch my hard drive again. Another tragedy to go on my Blackcats pile, if that. Omitted. See here (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?p=509193#post509193).

I'm not even going to make a rant about the number of logins necessary for some people. That's been done too many times in too many places.

[rossmum]

that's fucking ludicrous.

valve should force publishers wanting their games to be distributed via steam to remove any and all drm. steam is a good enough system on its own and unlike securom, it doesn't violently rape your pc at times. better still, you can actually get rid of it should you so desire.

[Donut]

this is why im afraid of moving to pc gaming. re: lack of monies
i would love to play games like portal and bioshock 2 on my computer (assuming i had one powerful enough to do justice to those games) but the whole steam and securom things are driving me away. all this just to stop pirating? excuse me for saying this, but im pretty sure hacks exist to cancel the need for steam and all that login bullshit on some pc games. it seems like all of this security does little more than inconvenience the legitimate buyer.

im sticking with my xbox for now.

[StankBacon]

that's fucking ludicrous.

valve should force publishers wanting their games to be distributed via steam to remove any and all drm. steam is a good enough system on its own and unlike securom, it doesn't violently rape your pc at times. better still, you can actually get rid of it should you so desire.


if steam did that then people can just distribute the files steam downloads and anyone can use a cracked steam to play it fairly easily.

i personally have never had a problem with securerom or any other drm software so i don't see the problem with it.

that being said i never played bioshock and don't plan to, so this game has no appeal to me anyway.

[rossmum]

e/f;b

steam is fine. granted some games won't play unless you're actually online, but many will play in offline mode too. logging in to play is a minor inconvenience and one instantly remedied by having steam log in at startup like i have done for the past few years. of all the forms of drm, steam is by far the best; it doesn't linger permanently, it doesn't fuck your pc, and it actually has a lot of useful features (chat, community, store). in fact, steam chat is virtually the only thing i use for messaging anymore unless i'm wanting to speak to someone who doesn't use it, and it integrates well with steam and even non-steam games. it's also nice being able to access any game i own, steam or not, through the games tab.

trust me, steam is great. the only reason you see people bitch so much is because they're retards, or because they didn't think to contact steam support when they encountered a problem and instead ended up making it worse.

e/ bacon, shit happens. we all know some bright spark somewhere will manage to crack every form of drm within hours of its release, so there's little advantage in using systems like securom on top of steam when most gamers are honest enough to buy things through steam, considering how competitive their prices are and the convenience of being able to play any game you own on any pc you happen to use.

[flibitijibibo]

Steam by itself is actually not bad at all. It pretty much works as intended without any excessive bullshit, and (obviously) it offers a lot more than just DRM. However, Steam, GFWL AND SecuROM all at once is absolutely absurd. I'll admit, I kinda like GFWL for its connection with 360 people, but come on. Until cross-platform exists (again-ish?), there's no need.

E: D-d-d-d-d-double snipe.

E2: Bacon: As opposed to just cracking the other systems? It'll only take an extra day or two to get all the systems cracked, making virtually no difference. Also, I suggest searching the Podacity section for Episode Fuck SecuROM to see why it blows.

[Donut]

i just dont like being FORCED to have steam to play a game i own on a disk. my cousin gave me his copy of portal because it doesnt run on his mac (idk why he thought it would...) and the first thing the installer wanted me to do was install steam. if i was going to use it to buy stuff online and talk to people i wouldnt mind using steam at all. its just that some of these games require it, and an online connection nontheless.

[rossmum]

the thing is you can typically buy games cheaper via steam than you could out of the distro plant, let alone any given retail chain

[=sw=warlord]

the thing is you can typically buy games cheaper via steam than you could out of the distro plant, let alone any given retail chain
Yeah but at the same time, you can't trade/return games you got off steam.

[sdavis117]

if steam did that then people can just distribute the files steam downloads and anyone can use a cracked steam to play it fairly easily.

i personally have never had a problem with securerom or any other drm software so i don't see the problem with it.

that being said i never played bioshock and don't plan to, so this game has no appeal to me anyway.

On my system I was able to play the Crysis Demo at 1080p at medium settings and 2xAA, and got a decent Framerate.

When I bought Crysis on Steam, to get even close to the frames I got on the demo, I had to play at 1280x720, Medium-Low settings, with no AA.

SecureROM was the difference. It is a serious system hog, and it raped my machine. Crysis became almost unplayable, and not nearly as good looking as the demo, at choppier frames.

[sdavis117]

Yeah but at the same time, you can't trade/return games you got off steam.
I don't know any stores that let you trade in used PC games, and I don't even know if any stores let you return PC games anymore unless they are defective (in which case they usually just let you get a replacement).

[StankBacon]

I don't know any stores that let you trade in used PC games, and I don't even know if any stores let you return PC games anymore unless they are defective (in which case they usually just let you get a replacement).

.

[Warsaw]

Who would buy a used PC game anyways? The CD-key would more than likely be copied and used by the previous owner, making the used PC game null and void on your computer should you both try to play online at the same time (assuming you can get even that far).

[Timo]

Yeah but at the same time, you can't trade/return games you got off steam.

The second I walk out of any store with a PC game I can't walk back in to return it. Surely NZ isn't an exception here.

[neuro]

well, that takes biosock2 off my list.
oh well, not my loss rly.

[Good_Apollo]

Most Publishers are dropping SecureROM and DRM in general. Yet you still get the wierdos that just don't get it...

[Rook]

Blah blah blah rook hates securom, honestly that's not the real killer it's the amount of activations you can do on Steam. Doesn't Valve advertise downloading as many times as you want on any computer for their service? When it comes to activations they should draw the line there.

Additionally, are the developers wondering why people aren't playing their game long term? Maybe if you just opened the game and entered your name the simplicity of playing would entice people.

[Needles]

Well, now I can't get bioshock 2 :smith:

It caused me huge problems with my original copy, especially not wanting it to start up and bugging out at times saying that it wasn't the bioshock disk.

[=sw=warlord]

I don't know any stores that let you trade in used PC games, and I don't even know if any stores let you return PC games anymore unless they are defective (in which case they usually just let you get a replacement).
all the games shops i visit allow trade in's, infact they have special offers once in a while to trade in old games for discounts on new ones.

[flibitijibibo]

May not seem like a big thing, but I found it interesting:
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/844/securom.png

[Pyong Kawaguchi]

I'm probably still going to get this game, imo, bioshock 1 was just that awesome.

[Jean-Luc]

I didn't much care for Bioshock (read: I thought it was boring as fuck), but the fact Bioshock 2 has DRM doesn't surprise me nor bother me. I've never had a problem with DRM, ever. While I do take issue with the fact developers are treating the paying customers like criminals, I've never had a game or system crash while using their chosen DRM.

[StankBacon]

all the games shops i visit allow trade in's, infact they have special offers once in a while to trade in old games for discounts on new ones.

console games, not pc games that require unique cd keys.

[=sw=warlord]

console games, not pc games that require unique cd keys.
I didn't mention console games at all.

[rossmum]

I didn't much care for Bioshock (read: I thought it was boring as fuck), but the fact Bioshock 2 has DRM doesn't surprise me nor bother me. I've never had a problem with DRM, ever. While I do take issue with the fact developers are treating the paying customers like criminals, I've never had a game or system crash while using their chosen DRM.
i dunno. it was no fast-paced shooter, but it was disturbing as all fuck and the exploration alone was pretty cool. those are big selling points for me.

that said, i'll stick to borrowing my mates' 360s and playing it on those.

[legionaire45]

Dear SecuRom,

Would you kindly fuck off, dig yourself a hole and die?

Yours Truly,
PC Gamers

[flibitijibibo]

After looking at some lists of SecuROM games, it's disappointing to see that so many games with shit like this are still bestsellers. I can almost understand shit like Modern Warfare 2 selling well anyway because it didn't need the features, but come on. Why would you spend money on what's essentially a virus? Why would you support them? Why are you accepting this? Is an 8-10 hour game worth the near-permanent damage caused to your machine? Come on.

All people have to do is not buy/play it. Is it so hard? If they can figure out that SecuROM is unacceptable to PC gamers, they will eventually fix it. May not be quick, but even dipshits like Kotick could make such a deduction at some point. If we support SecuROM, it will stay alive. You don't need to take economics courses to understand that.

People need to get some fucking balls and not only say no to bullshit like this, but actually mean it as well. I, under NO circumstances, will EVER buy (or even pirate) a product with SecuROM until it is has been removed from the retail product. If this means buying nothing but Valve games for the rest of my life, that's what I'll fucking do. I not only encourage others to do the same with this, but with any other bullshit publishers throw at their customers. Of course, I only encourage you to do this if you promise not to let this (http://www.gossipgamers.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/boycottmw2-590x491.jpg) shit happen again.

[Inferno]

LOL. Companies are so fucking stupid. 3 days after it's released I will have a custom version of the game that uses a batch installer. And guess what! That just means you lost a sale!

Good Game.

[Bodzilla]

After looking at some lists of SecuROM games, it's disappointing to see that so many games with shit like this are still bestsellers. I can almost understand shit like Modern Warfare 2 selling well anyway because it didn't need the features, but come on. Why would you spend money on what's essentially a virus? Why would you support them? Why are you accepting this? Is an 8-10 hour game worth the near-permanent damage caused to your machine? Come on.

All people have to do is not buy/play it. Is it so hard? If they can figure out that SecuROM is unacceptable to PC gamers, they will eventually fix it. May not be quick, but even dipshits like Kotick could make such a deduction at some point. If we support SecuROM, it will stay alive. You don't need to take economics courses to understand that.

People need to get some fucking balls and not only say no to bullshit like this, but actually mean it as well. I, under NO circumstances, will EVER buy (or even pirate) a product with SecuROM until it is has been removed from the retail product. If this means buying nothing but Valve games for the rest of my life, that's what I'll fucking do. I not only encourage others to do the same with this, but with any other bullshit publishers throw at their customers. Of course, I only encourage you to do this if you promise not to let this (http://www.gossipgamers.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/boycottmw2-590x491.jpg) shit happen again.
you sound exactly like me.

[Varmint260]

Ugh... I just looked up a list of SecuROM games. I have at least five games in my collection that are listed as having SecuROM 7. I had no idea; I never bothered to research it.

So, essentially, every computer I've gamed on since that old Dell from 2001 probably has or has had SecuROM on it? Just fabulous. I guess the next time I try to install Mass Effect on a computer I'll probably have to fight with EA for another activation?

Also, I see I have at least four games on consoles that have SecuROM on their PC counterparts... I had heard of SecuROM before but I didn't know it was a freakin' epidemic.

[StankBacon]

I didn't mention console games at all.

then your a liar, no game shop or store will exchange pc games.

[neuro]

unless they're absolute mentalpatients

[=sw=warlord]

then your a liar, no game shop or store will exchange pc games.
No, the Gamestation shop in the town i live near happen to trade in PC game's infact most of my Pc game's i got second hand and never had a issue at all.

[StankBacon]

liar.

[=sw=warlord]

liar.
Believe what you like (http://www.gamestation.co.uk/PC-Games/_/N-1z13fwrZ689/?cm_mmc=BMM-G-_-Brand-_-Core-_-gamestation).
Theres one stand for new games and one for second hand games.

[Needles]

No, the Gamestation shop in the town i live near happen to trade in PC game's infact most of my Pc game's i got second hand and never had a issue at all.

My local gamestops also trade in PC games, I have no idea how that would work out though and I don't want to risk buying a used pc game with no key.

[Rook]

You'd have to be mentally challenged to buy a used PC game, the original owner could write down the key/still be using it.

[=sw=warlord]

You'd have to be mentally challenged to buy a used PC game, the original owner could write down the key/still be using it.
They could, but as i said i've never had a issue in all the years i've used second hand pc game's and even if i did get a issue i would just phone up and ask for a new key, worked when i had windows go belly up on me.
E: Aww bacon you butthurt over being proven wrong?

[flibitijibibo]

Good news, sort of:
http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/01/25/2k-pares-down-bioshock-2-drm-securom-all-but-gone-now/

So SecuROM is still on the disc, but supposedly it will only be there to check the disc's integrity. GFWL is still there, but there are plenty of games that do the Steam/GFWL pair. Whether or not they're bullshitting us on the SecuROM thing is in the air until release.

It's a shame that couldn't have been how it was to start, now I can't afford the game. gg, 2K.

Edit: I just discovered that Arkham Asylum uses the same system as above. Upon searching my system, it seems the game will still make a SecuROM key in the registry (and some dll in temp, I dunno). I can uninstall it pretty easily with the removal tool, but as soon as I run the game, it's back.

Fuck, I didn't know Arkham Asylum had it too. Now I feel like an assclown, even though I didn't actually buy it myself... (I've been playing it for like a week straight now)

[Bhamid]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/no-dedicated-servers-for-bioshock-2-article

*bleugh*

[rossmum]

maybe you should boycott it and get pyong kawaguchi to run a 4chan raid on the dev's forums :lolugh:

[jcap]

Bioshock really wasn't the type of game I'd expect dedicated servers from. I would have been more surprised if they had dedicated servers.

I really have trouble understanding the incentive of ANY developer to use GFWL. It has absolutely ZERO benefits over not using it. Hell, it even hurts the developers more than it hurts the end user. How could they find paying per patch enticing? Do they really want their game to have the problems all other GFWL games have?

[flibitijibibo]

Dedi's with GFWL? Of course not. Don't you remember H2V's system?

Edit: Oh wow, maybe I should have seen the next page.

GFWL would actually have value if they just added some cross-platform games like Shadowrun. Where the hell did that go??

[SonicXtreme]

then your a liar, no game shop or store will exchange pc games.

GameStation in the UK accepts them all the time , i have traded in tons of games and bought tons of used pc games from that place over and over for years with no problems.

[Dwood]

Heck, I'm surprised there's any MP at all in bioshock 2.

[flibitijibibo]

It's the obligatory "they want multiplayer for a non-multiplayer game, let's just throw it in and teach them a lesson." For more, see: Metroid Prime 2.

Not Prime Trilogy though. For some reason the Wii multiplayer is actually kind of fun.

[ICEE]

Pretty psyched for this. Been playing through bioshock 1 on hard. I'm really glad phopojisjiadnslfa mod guy posted about the sale. Hadn't played bioshock before, amazing game.

[Advancebo]

all the games shops i visit allow trade in's, infact they have special offers once in a while to trade in old games for discounts on new ones.

Where do you go? I'd love to trade in my PC games.

[=sw=warlord]

Where do you go? I'd love to trade in my PC games.

No, the Gamestation shop in the town i live near happen to trade in PC game's infact most of my Pc game's i got second hand and never had a issue at all.
.

[jcap]

Game's been leaked.

OH BOY I AM SO GLAD THEIR SOUPED UP DRM HAS PROVEN TO WORK AGAIN! :ugh:

[Pyong Kawaguchi]

Been leaked for xbox pal, yes, not sure about pc.

[ICEE]

define leak. Has it been sold early or something?

[Pyong Kawaguchi]

Sold early in some areas, then uploaded to the internet.

[Bodzilla]

Game's been leaked.

OH BOY I AM SO GLAD THEIR SOUPED UP DRM HAS PROVEN TO WORK AGAIN! :ugh:

wicka wicka woo:smugparrot:

[Pyong Kawaguchi]

http://i.imgur.com/SykzM.jpg

[Dwood]

Game's been leaked.

OH BOY I AM SO GLAD THEIR SOUPED UP DRM HAS PROVEN TO WORK AGAIN! :ugh:

:iamafag: Hopefully someone will strip the DRM. I might get it then if Securom is taken out of the picture.

[flibitijibibo]

^Batch installer, probably.

The closer it gets to the release, the more people I see getting their wallets out for the game again, as if the SecuROM announcement never happened. Is this why games like MW2 sold so well? Are people just so used to shit that it's completely erased from their mind a week after it happens? That's just downright scary, man.

[Pyong Kawaguchi]

m5QQ0cAfdDQ
Game intro video.
Pretty creepy.

[sdavis117]

Wow, you weren't kidding, that was really creepy.

[Pyong Kawaguchi]

And trust me, it gets worse.

[=sw=warlord]

And trust me, it gets worse.
but is it worth a buy?
I've seen the trailers and intro and it seems pretty good but im curious if its just introduction hype or not.

[jcap]

Game seems just as lame and redundant as the first game after a few hours of playing.

It starts out already extremely redundant from the first game, I got bored after the first hour (and after it crashed). You can just listen to Yahtzee's review of Bioshock and you've got a perfect review of this game.

The game sucks because of how slow any story is to develop. I've been playing it for several hours now and only two or three things have been said which build the story. Most of the game is the same fucking stupid boring "we need to get through that door but it's frozen, so find the fire plasmid to melt the ice over the next 40 minutes". Yes, that is an actual level, and if you didn't notice already, the objective is exactly the same as one in the first game.

This series sucks.

EDIT: FUCK THIS FUCKING GAME. These developers must have never heard of checkpoints or any shit like that. I completed a level last night, but it crashed while loading the next level. I figured I would just pick up loading that level again....NOPE! I have to waste even more time on this dumb shit game now.

[Pyong Kawaguchi]

So far, I'm loving this game.

[ICEE]

I need to just leave the forum and never come back

actually, I found it to be amazing. Many of the little holes in bioshock one have been filled in bioshock two, while still maintaining the same feeling.
mild spoilers I guess
I think that what 2k has done right here, is maintaining the atmosphere and plot elements that made bioshock what it was, while still giving you an all new story line and character. I was concerned that playing as a big daddy would make the game too easy, but on the contrary I found it to be much harder than the first one. Splicers are more powerful and damaging than before, even though you are more powerful as well. I love the constant hunger for ammo, you have to make every shot count. The new adam system is also a great improvement in my opinion. It was fairly simple in bioshock 1. Defeat a big daddy, collect adam. Now, it goes more like this: Defeat big daddy, adopt his little sister, protect little sister while she extracts adam from corpses, release her at a vent. Of course, you can always harvest her and thereby shorten the process, but if you want the good ending you have to go to the extra effort. The references to the first game and it's hero "Jack" were very subtle and well done. The only thing that left me wanting in this game was splicer dialog. Now, that may be because I have my 360 plugged up to a bose speaker which has only one sound input rather than 2, but I found it hard to hear what the splicers were saying, and when I did it wasn't quite as colorful as the first game. "THERES SEMEN. ON EVERYTHING, EVERRYTHING!"

Over all, Bravo 2k. I will probably play this through another2 or 3 times

[Bodzilla]

bioshock was alright but it did seem to drag for me.

i cant buy anything that has securom so i'll just have to find a copy of it.... somehow..... that doesnt have securom....

[jcap]

Oh yeah, I want to come back and say that after beating the game, it turned out to be much better than I anticipated.

I still strongly dislike the stupid objectives that are just annoyances, but once half-way though, the game got better.

The part that really opened my eyes was when you got to play as the Little Sister. It was brilliantly done how they showed the fantasy dream they live in. As you were walking through the prison, it looked beautiful, but every now and then you would get to see where you really were. Also, it was great how you finally got to understand why the Little Sisters call the dead people "angels". In their mind, they see wings drawn out on the ground around them. That was so well done.

[ICEE]

bioshock was alright but it did seem to drag for me.

i cant buy anything that has securom so i'll just have to find a copy of it.... somehow..... that doesnt have securom....

The ending of both bioshocks dragged a little to me, but that was probably because

I didn't realize what I was supposed to do so I ended up battling brutes and alphas for 20 minutes in the water

[TeeKup]

Just picked the game up today. I'll tell everyone now, there is NOTHING more satisfying that plowing through a group of ten splicers with the drill. Like mass effect 2, there are things I see and am able that just put a big grin on my face. Having fun so far, I'll post further input on the plot the farther in I get. :D