The Snitch in Your Pocket

[Kornman00]

Law enforcement is tracking Americans' cell phones in real time—without the benefit of a warrant. (http://www.newsweek.com/id/233916)


Amid all the furor over the Bush administration's warrantless wiretapping program a few years ago, a mini-revolt was brewing over another type of federal snooping that was getting no public attention at all. Federal prosecutors were seeking what seemed to be unusually sensitive records: internal data from telecommunications companies that showed the locations of their customers' cell phones—sometimes in real time, sometimes after the fact. The prosecutors said they needed the records to trace the movements of suspected drug traffickers, human smugglers, even corrupt public officials. But many federal magistrates—whose job is to sign off on search warrants and handle other routine court duties—were spooked by the requests. Some in New York, Pennsylvania, and Texas balked. Prosecutors "were using the cell phone as a surreptitious tracking device," said Stephen W. Smith, a federal magistrate in Houston. "And I started asking the U.S. Attorney's Office, 'What is the legal authority for this? What is the legal standard for getting this information?' "

Those questions are now at the core of a constitutional clash between President Obama's Justice Department and civil libertarians alarmed by what they see as the government's relentless intrusion into the private lives of citizens. There are numerous other fronts in the privacy wars—about the content of e-mails, for instance, and access to bank records and credit-card transactions. The Feds now can quietly get all that information. But cell-phone tracking is among the more unsettling forms of government surveillance, conjuring up Orwellian images of Big Brother secretly following your movements through the small device in your pocket.

(article continues)... (http://www.newsweek.com/id/233916)


Who you gonna call? Big Brothers! I'm glad I don't use these damn things. That poor sheriff's daughter...

[Limited]

Thought this was common knowledge...This is how they convicted the July 07 bombers in UK. They turned on the microphone on the mobile.

This can even be done with the phone off. The only way to completely make yourself safe is to remove the battery.

[Timo]

Glad I don't live in the USA, "land of the free".

[Cojafoji]

^what limited said. known about this for a while.

that's not to say that it isn't fucked up.

[InnerGoat]

Not a problem unless you're being evil :)

[Kornman00]

So, you calling the Jews evil then ;p?



"Common knowledge" that law enforcement can acquire this information without a warrant? And you're ok with that?

[InnerGoat]

SSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH they are watching!!!

[Dwood]

All you guys who wont take this seriously need to shut up. it isnt that hard to get a warrant... For once, i agree with you korn.

[Cojafoji]

find teardown of new phone on internet. locate gps chip. burn the center out with soldering iron.

[InnerGoat]

You can still locate the phone with triangulation

[=sw=warlord]

All you guys who wont take this seriously need to shut up. it isnt that hard to get a warrant... For once, i agree with you korn.
Why do they need to shut up? because they have a opinion different to yours?
If you have nothing to hide then why are you so worried?

[Cojafoji]

i dunno, fucking run away after you make the call?

[Dwood]

Why do they need to shut up? because they have a opinion different to yours?


Because they have no idea, and their responses have been fairly retarded.



If you have nothing to hide then why are you so worried?

What gives them the right to listen in on your/my/our conversations? This is the equivalent of them requiring your computer to come with software that monitors everything you do.

Roughly 2 years ago, I would probably be agreeing with you.

[sleepy1212]

this is old school black-helicopter stuff, but it's even possible with simpler RFID scanning. They use them at stores all the time to track everyday items. all it requires is a magnetic field, like the ones all cell phones produce. using a prepay or someone else's phone? no problem, as long as you have an ID or credit card with a magnetic strip on the back your phone can be used to scan it.

“a cellphone has all the ingredients you need to conduct an attack and compromise all the RFID tags in the vicinity,”

http://www.realconspiracytheories.com/category/rfid/

[SnaFuBAR]

https://www.gold-lock.com/app/en/Home

for those worried.

[paladin]

https://www.gold-lock.com/app/en/Home

for those worried.


Kidnappers, Industrial Espionage Agents and other Criminals also monitor unsecure message traffic to gain valuable information about businesses, cash flow, movement of goods and personal information about executives and their families.


Kidnappers, monitor unsecure message to gain valuable information about families.


Kidnappers, valuable, families.


Kidnappers

I found my new job

[Heathen]

Why do they need to shut up? because they have a opinion different to yours?
If you have nothing to hide then why are you so worried?

This. Our responses aren't retarded. And if you don't agree with me, you're probably a racist.

[paladin]

Ok Greg Gutfeld, Andy Levy here, and im gonna sick my cats on you.

[Dwood]

Ur all europeans, i forgot, you arent used to having rights.

[Jean-Luc]

Why do they need to shut up? because they have a opinion different to yours?
If you have nothing to hide then why are you so worried?
You HAVE to be kidding me. You think it's perfectly acceptable to throw away more of our privacy and freedoms?

Remember, "He who trades freedom for security deserves neither." - Benjamin Franklin

[SnaFuBAR]

If you have nothing to hide then why are you so worried?

You couldn't possibly be serious and say something that asinine. Trolling infraction maybe?

[Good_Apollo]

Yes I can attest to this due to my several arrests for underage drinking (well not anymore), drug use, and various petty crimes.

Wait what? Who is this affecting now?

[PlasbianX]

You HAVE to be kidding me. You think it's perfectly acceptable to throw away more of our privacy and freedoms?

Remember, "He who trades freedom for security deserves neither." - Benjamin Franklin

Remember, warlord's advice to everything is to just submit and take it up the ass. If you don't like it, don't buy a cell phone :v:

[Rook]

Remember, warlord's advice to everything is to just submit and take it up the ass. If you don't like it, don't buy a cell phone :v:

Then tell us, where does it stop?

First cell phones to get people warm to the idea then it expands to everything.

[Jean-Luc]

Then tell us, where does it stop?

First cell phones to get people warm to the idea then it expands to everything.
I do believe Plas was mocking Warlord, not agreeing with him.

[PlasbianX]

I do believe Plas was mocking Warlord, not agreeing with him.

This. Hence the :v: at the end of my post and the reference to the DRM thread where his argument was to simply not buy the games with DRM.

[Kornman00]

If you're not living on American soil

:gtfo: of the thread

[Donut]

the phones arnt safe, the credit cards arnt safe, the computers arnt safe, internet anonymity isnt anonymous anymore... the united states has become what its founders were once seeking to avoid. Washington would blow bricks out of his ass at high velocities if he knew what was going on.

then again what are we supposed to do about it? i suggest we all break away from Great United States and form the New United States in like... iceland or some shit.

[ICEE]

iceland

The moon and/or rapture. I mean, one more work of science fiction has become real (absolute government monitoring of the populace), WHY STOP THERE?

[Corndogman]

And here I was thinking this thread was going to be about Quidditch =\

[paladin]

If you're not living on American soil

:gtfo: of the thread

Can we apply this for everything regarding America and it's policies?

kthnxbi

[TeeKup]

I've just learned to stay away from these threads. Unless it involves the ethics/morality/policy/relevant situation on homosexuality then I burst into a rage of fire and hell.

[paladin]

Even when its pro gay rights discussion?

[TeeKup]

No, only if its Anti. That's what I was getting at.

[paladin]

:v: gotcha

[Kornman00]

So would the thread be safe from TeeKup rage if I said "Anyone not living on American soil who basically posts 'oh well' is gay" :-3? Or do you classify that as involving the "ethics/morality/policy/relevant situation on homosexuality"

jk! <3...in a friendly way ;3

[paladin]

I think jsut the fact that you post will make him rage. It makes me :maddowns:

[=sw=warlord]

Remember, warlord's advice to everything is to just submit and take it up the ass. If you don't like it, don't buy a cell phone :v:
Where did i say this?
I didn't, what i said was come up with something better or shut the fuck up.
Im not a submissive person but im also not to arrogant that just because i don't agree with something dosn't mean i don't have to think of something better to prove my point.


Ur all europeans, i forgot, you arent used to having rights.
If you want to talk about rightrs ask Australia or china.
I hear they've got the best rights on the market.:downs:


You HAVE to be kidding me. You think it's perfectly acceptable to throw away more of our privacy and freedoms?

Remember, "He who trades freedom for security deserves neither." - Benjamin Franklin

As far as privacy is concerned.
Some forms of privacy are a must but if all it is, is a cypher searching for select words on a cell phone im perfectly fine, im not having details of my life published, i don't have someone listen in to everything i say nor see everything i do.
and as much as this will no doubt be taken the wrong way, it's no worse than a thought that a deity is watching listening to everything you say, do or think.

Just think in a few years time the government will start taxing you for the air you breathe.:downs:

Personaly i think we should just get rid of centralized authorities and leave it down to common sense, let the theif get chained to a wall and stoned by the villagers so to speak.
that way theres no bitching about freedoms and rights being taken away or am i on the wrong end of the stick?

Or we could always take the inteligent move and actually help law enforcement, if it weren't for the whole "hur der pig cops hurf der durf" im fairly sure the law enforcement wouldn't have such a large issue.
for a species who's taken a few thousand years to get this far technologicaly we still seem like a bunch of apes scratching our asses.
Can't wait for evolution to take hold again.

[Kornman00]

Wow, you like to put them "pigs" on pedestals don't you? Did you not read the article? Powers like this can and have been abused. Hence why they invented the fucking search warrant. To keep authorities from over stepping their bounds.

You give someone enough immediate resources and they'll use them to their advantage. A bunch of small things can add up into something large. The world is all about politicking and I implicitly won't put blind faith in any person who holds power over me because the majority of them abuse the fucking systems they're suppose to fucking maintain and uphold (a couple rotten apples spoils the bunch). I see it in the military, I see it in the civilian world, I see it all over the world.

But hey, if you want to just blindly trust people and expect them to swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth then fine. Just don't bitch here when you or someone you know get butt hurt from them.

[paladin]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Kornman00 again.
:saddowns:

[Bodzilla]

Why do they need to shut up? because they have a opinion different to yours?
If you have nothing to hide then why are you so worried?
complacency yet again.


:smithicide:

P sure they do this in australia as well.

[=sw=warlord]

complacency yet again.


:smithicide:

P sure they do this in australia as well.
You sure love to spread that word about don't you.
Read my other comments before jumping to conclusions because when you assume your only making you look like a ass and it takes me to correct you.

[paladin]

You sure love to spread that word about don't you.
Read my other comments before jumping to conclusions because when you assume your only making you look like a ass and it takes me to correct you.

He thinks using big words makes him smarter.

[StankBacon]

trolls.

[=sw=warlord]

trolls.
You can talk much mister "you cant trade pc games even though ive been proved wrong im still right".

[StankBacon]

right because one shop in a million trading pc games makes you right.

[flibitijibibo]

With no physical evidence that the one shop trades games either, making the whole "prove" thing a bit messy. But let's not derail now...

If the police were on our side, I'd consider giving them a helping hand. If you were old enough to have experienced proof of this, you'd understand (and a teacher would have slapped you on the wrist for your poor use of you're).

I will say, though, as someone who grew up near DC and had neighbors on all sides in government (and including my own home), I'm not so worried about this. Yes, it's against every principle of privacy and constitutional law, but realize how many phones they're tapping at a time. They'll only bother with you if you're already on their "to watch" list, as they usually have much bigger fish to fry.

[=sw=warlord]

I will say, though, as someone who grew up near DC and had neighbors on all sides in government (and including my own home), I'm not so worried about this. Yes, it's against every principle of privacy and constitutional law, but realize how many phones they're tapping at a time. They'll only bother with you if you're already on their "to watch" list, as they usually have much bigger fish to fry.
This, this is exactly what im getting at, unless you make yourself that much of a neusance your not going to have anything to worry about.


right because one shop in a million trading pc games makes you right.
I mentioned several, just because where you live you know of no shops doing this dosn't make it the same for everyone.

[Cojafoji]

Warlord, flibit, not only is it the principal of the thing, it's also that it's not ethically/morally right.

You guys are missing the point.

[Kornman00]

I will say, though, as someone who grew up near DC and had neighbors on all sides in government (and including my own home), I'm not so worried about this. Yes, it's against every principle of privacy and constitutional law, but realize how many phones they're tapping at a time. They'll only bother with you if you're already on their "to watch" list, as they usually have much bigger fish to fry.
Except this isn't just Big Government who is wielding this hammer. It boils down to even the local sheriff. If you were paying attention earlier, you'd realize that people abuse the powers given to them. Hence why we have CHECKS AND FUCKING BALANCES. So they should have to get a fucking warrant.

I bet you wouldn't be singing the same fucking tunes if this was a case about the authorities knocking down Google's doors and taking all the data they have on people. This is like holding a fucking line; if one person goes down, the rest will follow. If you don't make a stand in one place, you might as well not make a stand anywhere.

[=sw=warlord]

Warlord, flibit, not only is it the principal of the thing, it's also that it's not ethically/morally right.

You guys are missing the point.
Both of which were the same issue when the first human heart transplant was done.

[Kornman00]

How about we keep the talk to privacy, kids

[flibitijibibo]

If it were the police, I'd totally agree, because they so little to do that they'd like to take their boredom out on the very people they're supposed to protect. But from what I can tell, it's just government agencies, and the government doesn't give a shit about you until you blow something up/have a lot of money. It may be a possibility, which I suppose is unethical, but they'll probably never, ever touch your information because you don't matter on their scale.

9Oww4Ap3YZA
^Pretty much this, actually.

[Kornman00]

If it were the police, I'd totally agree, because they so little to do that they'd like to take their boredom out on the very people they're supposed to protect. But from what I can tell, it's just government agencies, and the government doesn't give a shit about you until you blow something up/have a lot of money.
Yeah, just government "agencies"

But the FBI and other law-enforcement outfits have been obtaining more and more records of cell-phone locations—without notifying the targets or getting judicial warrants
Sprint Nextel has even set up a dedicated Web site so that law-enforcement agents can access the records from their desks
Some abuse has already occurred at the local level, according to telecom lawyer Gidari.
An agitated Alabama sheriff...shouting that his daughter had been kidnapped, the sheriff demanded they ping her cell phone every few minutes to identify her location. In fact, there was no kidnapping: the daughter had been out on the town all night
A potentially more sinister request came from some Michigan cops who, purportedly concerned about a possible "riot," pressed another telecom for information on all the cell phones that were congregating in an area where a labor-union protest was expected.Since you obviously didn't want to read the fucking article for this thread let me c&p the ending of it:

The issue came to a head this month in a federal courtroom in Philadelphia. A Justice Department lawyer, Mark Eckenwiler, asked a panel of appeals-court judges to overturn Lenihan's ruling, arguing that the Feds were only asking for what amounted to "routine business records." But he faced stiff questioning from one of the judges, Dolores Sloviter, who noted that there are some governments, like Iran's, that would like to use such records to identify political protesters. "Now, can the government assure us," she pressed Eckenwiler, "that Justice would never use the provisions in the communications law to collect cell-phone data for such a purpose in the United States?" Eckenwiler tried to deflect the question, saying he couldn't speak to "future hypotheticals," but finally acknowledged, "Yes, your honor. It can be used constitutionally for that purpose."

For those concerned about what the government might do with the data in your pocket, that was not a comforting answer.

Don't always assume the water is calm just because it looks such on the surface. A fucking fleet of submarines could be at your shore unless you investigate (read: check and balance) your waters. The same goes for your government. Just because on the outside they're doing one thing doesn't mean "underground" they're cooking up other souffles for their appetites. This isn't just conspiracy talk, history provides it's own examples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate) of the government and the people in it abusing their powers and positions.

Don't be so fucking blind and uninformed to the world around you or else it will eat you alive when you least expect it

[sleepy1212]

apparently the government agencies do give a shit

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100119/0339467809.shtml
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=660856

of course they can already get all the info they need on anybody at anytime whether it's illegal or not and they surely do. the warrant process makes any evidence collected admissible in court. getting rid of or making the warrants easier to get only leaves one step left...changing the definitions of crime. Take health care for example. It's completely feasible that health care agencies would regard risky activities as a liability. Injuries could result in penalties for "misuse of taxpayer money". Remember those 60min-like shows about those guys collecting compensation and that got caught on camera fixing their car? Pretty funny! Until you go skydiving with your cell phone. If you think it's only limitied to those who commit fraud or maybe penalties assessed after a risk related injury then refer to the Seat Belt law.

[Bodzilla]

If the Gov wants to listen into and use our cellphones to locate us, then they can get a warrant.

There is no reason that they cant.

[StankBacon]

probable cause?

[sleepy1212]

probable cause?
is a myth.

[paladin]

This reminds me of the cellphone shit in the Dark Knight

[Kalub]

This is pretty gay. Not even gonna lie, it's completely ridiculous.


I'd like to give a round of applause to KM too, because he seems to be the only logical person in this thread. (Disclaimer: I've only skimmed)

The government is bending every rule and civil liberty to their whim, whilst we get the shaft.

Chalk up another strike on the F***-America board.

[SnaFuBAR]

Korn just sank every argument of "don't worry lol".

[Warsaw]

This is pretty gay. Not even gonna lie, it's completely ridiculous.


I'd like to give a round of applause to KM too, because he seems to be the only logical person in this thread. (Disclaimer: I've only skimmed)

The government is bending every rule and civil liberty to their whim, whilst we get the shaft.

Chalk up another strike on the F***-America board.

I'd bet money that it's not just a problem in America, but in most developed countries too. Just hear about it here because Americans have a tendency to overhype EVERYTHING, which in this case is actually justified.

I find the implications with cellphones most disturbing. I almost hate to imagine where this country ends up in 20 years.

[rossmum]

Both of which were the same issue when the first human heart transplant was done.
Hey, nice strawman!

Heart transplants and privacy are two entirely different things. The only thing they do have in common is that they've both been ethical issues at some point, but even then, it's been a different reason. I don't know why you're so violently opposed to those who wish their privacy to be respected, but I'll tell you this now. I'm not a criminal, and I don't appreciate being treated like one. I would like my whereabouts to remain my business and mine alone, and I would like my conversations to remain private. They are none of the government's business, none of the police's business, and none of my family's business. Unless there is suspicion beyond reasonable doubt enough to obtain a warrant, this is an abhorrent violation of the rights of private citizens. There is literally no justification whatsoever for any government or law enforcement agency to be able to track someone's location on a whim, which is basically what this amounts to. Warrants exist for a reason and they should damn well be respected.

I, for one, am fucking sick to death of all these bullshit 'security measures' implemented in the name of fighting terrorism or organised crime. Living here, I'm already treated enough like a criminal by the government. I can't believe some of you aren't worried that the same thing will end up happening there.

[Warsaw]

^ 1000x this.

Note my "Location" info. Yeah, that's my social commentary on Amerika and the direction it is heading. The worst part is that a lot of the general population knows nothing about it and thus can't get up in arms over it in the traditional American fashion.

[Cojafoji]

The worst part is that a lot of the general population knows nothing about it and thus can't get up in arms over it in the traditional American fashion.
Even if they did, I'm sure most of them would take the "it's for the greater good/I'm not a criminal/herp derp what's privacy" road.

[rossmum]

THINK OF THE CHILDREN

*shoots self*

[Bodzilla]

noble friends we gather here today for the loss of one "rossmum"

Ross was a kind person, and his neighbours assure me that even though he was a drug fiend and a piss head and that his party's went for days on end.... that because he's dead they now consider him quite a reserved good natured fellow, because they just cant say he was a promiscuous bastard on account of it being disrespectful to the dead, therefore we'll grieve for him like a hero.

The tragedy of this all is that ross was never able to achieve his goal in life of complete universal domination, and the formation of his visionary Country the Nofuckheadsallowed democratic republic of rossmum with it's timeless catch phrase of "your I.Q. must be this high to live here, or i'll shoot you in the face"

But it's not just the RL that will miss him, After years of endlessly camping people for HOURS ON END NOT MOVING AND HIDING AND FFFFFF in various games such as halo, and MW2 he eventually became a regular member of GBX or H2V where he spent most of his days posting long arguments at people that just skimmed his points and repeated the same thing he just discredited, to the enjoyment of everyone.

oh and he has assburgers

He shall be missed.
Goodbye rossmum, my dear old friend

[Kalub]

Even if they did, I'm sure most of them would take the "it's for the greater good/I'm not a criminal/herp derp what's privacy" road.

Smells like mormons

[Dwood]

Smells like mormons

I'm Mormon.

[Kornman00]

Where's that Mormon youtube cartoon video when you need it

[Cojafoji]

THINK OF THE CHILDREN

*shoots self*

That's the spirit!

I'm Mormon.
*shoots dwood*

[Kornman00]

ah, here we go

7q6brMrFw0E

[Kalub]

Mormons are so gay...





amirite?

[Dwood]

lol That cartoon. Watch it without volume and it makes less sense. A bunch of people randomly turning black >.>

@ Kalub- If we're gay then why does everyone h8 on us 4 prop 8?

[Kornman00]

Where's that black people/white people (do do do do!) flash animation when you need it

[Cojafoji]

HAHA Oh wow.

That's even worse than Scientology...

[Yoko]

Where's that black people/white people (do do do do!) flash animation when you need it
width=640 height=480

[StankBacon]

lol i love that

[Dwood]

HAHA Oh wow.

That's even worse than Scientology...

Yeah. The people who made the cartoon, if they were serious were... well.... Mentally handicapped or something.

[Kalub]

No, seriously, Mormons are just gay.




Lol

[Kornman00]

liek you el oh el?

[Kalub]

yea lol




hahah wanna fuck?

[SiriusTexra]

Your all nutcases. Internet censorship and terrorist protection is a great thing. The children of today need our support in the rought time ahead. We as parents don't have the time for ethical and responsible guidance of our children. Our 12 year old daughters require PC's in their bedroom connected to the internet, and we must give it to them.

Pedophiles are everywhere, and even in your own home! Your neighbours, man, your neighbours. We have to stop the pedos from putting up websites, because they totally don't email each other private links, no.

These terrorists and pedophiles are insurging on all our rights and freedoms since 911. They are also explosivley dangerous because of the maniacal nature of their intent. We need this protection, they are the threat, not us silly! Who knows how many of us normal citizens are terrorists. Half of us could be programmed and waiting to switch on and become a terroriser.

These muslim bastards are trying to take back the land of jordan/plaestine whatever brown country names they have for things, and that's not right. The israelis deserve that land, they were hurt by Hitler in WW2. You don't like hitler do you? Hitler was a bad man, like terrorists.

Maybe if we had phone tapping and total surveliance hitler may not have done all those evil crimes.


I for one am happy to give away all my freedoms so that my 12 year old daughter can click on random banner ads and emails on the internet. That's her democratic right, she has every right as I do.


We need to think of the economics involved here. No children + lots of taxes = no one to pay the taxes, and terrorists and pedophiles running around everywhere.

If we don't protect the children, who's gunna keep paying off our carbon mortgage?


Your all nutcases. Save mother earth from the africans trying to harvest crops and build their country on our precious rainforests and the terrorists trying to stop people from establishing military arms in their countries.

[Cojafoji]

failtroll is fail.

[Dwood]

That wasnt a troll... lol

[rossmum]

:dane:

bro we should hang more often

except fuck 10-hour train trips

[Bodzilla]

you two got on like a house on fire lol, i was trying to keep track of the 4-5 different groups of people i hang out with and see what everyone was up too lol

[SiriusTexra]

Got on like plumbing and faulty metal insulation!