Militia 'prepared to kill' in U.S.A

[Spartan094]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/michigan.militia.arrests/index.html

I mean really? An attempt to start a revolution? I would laugh to see this but if this did happen damn. See when Pres. Bush was president, this never happened, now Pres. Obama, now theres a shit storm going on. I don't like politics, I won't get into a shit argument about it, if it gets out of hand I will lock it for abit.

[JackalStomper]

They advocated that government was their enemy and that federal, state and local police officers were their foot soldiers...

Police aren't government foot soldiers.... government foot soldiers wear armor.... and they use assault rifles.

This pretty much sums up what needs to be said to these kind of people. (http://sinequanaan.tumblr.com/post/485952918/an-article-i-wish-i-would-never-have-to-write-to)

[Aerowyn]

See when Pres. Bush was president, this never happened, now Pres. Obama, now theres a shit storm going on.

This is because when Bush was president, if you so much as suggested going against the government you were labelled as a terrorist.

Now because of all the hateful, violent rhetoric the Republicans and batshit neo-Cons are spewing, they're making it out to be that if you're NOT violent and anti-government, you hate America.

Sad state of affairs, really.

[Dwood]

This site is a sad state of affairs.

[Good_Apollo]

This is because when Bush was president, if you so much as suggested going against the government you were labelled as a terrorist.

Now because of all the hateful, violent rhetoric the Republicans and batshit neo-Cons are spewing, they're making it out to be that if you're NOT violent and anti-government, you hate America.

Sad state of affairs, really.Can't tell if this is a joke post? Is it a joke post?

"McQuade emphasized that the arrests are not an attack on militia groups in general. "In Michigan, we have militia groups that are peaceful, that are exercising their right to bear arms," she said. "We have no problem with those groups."
But the Hutaree members' conduct "really crossed the line," she said. "They advocated that government was their enemy and that federal, state and local police officers were their foot soldiers and they refer to them as 'The Brotherhood' and they needed to attack the brotherhood because it was the brotherhood who was carrying out the orders of the government in the 'New World Order.' "


So it's against the law now to be a militia and dislike the government? I also don't see what they did, they claimed to have a plan but did they find evidence that they were going to follow through with killing people...? I mean crazy as they may be, what's the crime here?

[Inferno]

Fuck religion. It just causes problems.


Can't tell if this is a joke post? Is it a joke post?

"McQuade emphasized that the arrests are not an attack on militia groups in general. "In Michigan, we have militia groups that are peaceful, that are exercising their right to bear arms," she said. "We have no problem with those groups."
But the Hutaree members' conduct "really crossed the line," she said. "They advocated that government was their enemy and that federal, state and local police officers were their foot soldiers and they refer to them as 'The Brotherhood' and they needed to attack the brotherhood because it was the brotherhood who was carrying out the orders of the government in the 'New World Order.' "


So it's against the law now to be a militia and dislike the government? I also don't see what they did, they claimed to have a plan but did they find evidence that they were going to follow through with killing people...? I mean crazy as they may be, what's the crime here?

It's the goverment. They do what the want and when they want. They don't have to follow their own rules.

[Choking Victim]

I also don't see what they did, they claimed to have a plan but did they find evidence that they were going to follow through with killing people...? I mean crazy as they may be, what's the crime here?
How can you ever have evidence someone is going to follow through with something? Having the plan in the first place is evidence enough for the police to act, it's conspiracy to commit a crime. I can say "Hey I'm going to shoot everybody in this room" do you want to wait for evidence that I'm going to actually do it (IE shoot the first person) before I'm apprehended, or apprehend me before it happens? There has always been controversy surrounding arrests that occur before a crime is ever committed, this is no different.

[CN3089]

Can't tell if this is a joke post? Is it a joke post?

"McQuade emphasized that the arrests are not an attack on militia groups in general. "In Michigan, we have militia groups that are peaceful, that are exercising their right to bear arms," she said. "We have no problem with those groups."
But the Hutaree members' conduct "really crossed the line," she said. "They advocated that government was their enemy and that federal, state and local police officers were their foot soldiers and they refer to them as 'The Brotherhood' and they needed to attack the brotherhood because it was the brotherhood who was carrying out the orders of the government in the 'New World Order.' "


So it's against the law now to be a militia and dislike the government? I also don't see what they did, they claimed to have a plan but did they find evidence that they were going to follow through with killing people...? I mean crazy as they may be, what's the crime here?

it's called conspiracy bro perhaps you should look it up :)

[Good_Apollo]

How can you ever have evidence someone is going to follow through with something? Having the plan in the first place is evidence enough for the police to act, it's conspiracy to commit a crime. I can say "Hey I'm going to shoot everybody in this room" do you want to wait for evidence that I'm going to actually do it (IE shoot the first person) before I'm apprehended, or apprehend me before it happens? There has always been controversy surrounding arrests that occur before a crime is ever committed, this is no different.You still have to find sufficient evidence that they were going to do it. They don't arrest people just based off what they say. I can't say 'Hey I murdered someobody, throw me away." They'll actually have to find evidence I did in fact murder someone before they lock me up, and if they don't I'll get arrested for perjury anyway. Same thing goes for if I claimed I'm going to kill a thousand people in 2 months, even if I had a gun they'd have to find more evidence to convict you.

[Choking Victim]

They don't arrest people just based off what they say.
arrest != conviction

An officer can arrest you if he suspects you had intent to commit a crime.

Maybe you won't do the time, but you'll still take the ride.

[Good_Apollo]

arrest != conviction

An officer can arrest you if he suspects you had intent to commit a crime.

Maybe you won't do the time, but you'll still take the ride.You might have me there, we'll have to see what becomes of them I guess.

[n00b1n8R]

So it's against the law now to be a militia and dislike the government? I also don't see what they did, they claimed to have a plan but did they find evidence that they were going to follow through with killing people...? I mean crazy as they may be, what's the crime here?
Multiple counts of Conspiracy to Murder?
Conspiracy to commit acts of terrorism?

You don't idly make threats like that and expect no repercussion. :raise:

[Dwood]

You don't idly make threats like that and expect no repercussion. :raise:

I do threaten inferno and teh lag all the time

[n00b1n8R]

You don't idly make threats like that when it is apparent that you are able and willing to deliver and expect no repercussion. :raise:
ftfm

[SnaFuBAR]

Can't tell if this is a joke post? Is it a joke post?


So it's against the law now to be a militia and dislike the government? I also don't see what they did, they claimed to have a plan but did they find evidence that they were going to follow through with killing people...? I mean crazy as they may be, what's the crime here?


is this post a joke? is it a joke post?

[Inferno]

I do threaten inferno and teh lag all the time

And that's why your rep bar suddenly dropped 12 points.

:haw:

[sleepy1212]

Stupid gun-wielding christian right wing rednecks and their thought-crimes.


This pretty much sums up what needs to be said to these kind of people. (http://sinequanaan.tumblr.com/post/485952918/an-article-i-wish-i-would-never-have-to-write-to)

I wonder if he'd fight the government when they attack the consitution :allears:

[thehoodedsmack]

This pretty much sums up what needs to be said to these kind of people. (http://sinequanaan.tumblr.com/post/485952918/an-article-i-wish-i-would-never-have-to-write-to)

Yeah, this guy needs to try thinking for himself. Blindly following orders from any authority is a bad idea.

[Cortexian]

Blindly following orders
That's pretty much the ideal soldier in the minds of the military though, you'll find that the majority of soldiers have a mindset similar to that.

[thehoodedsmack]

That's pretty much the ideal soldier in the minds of the military though, you'll find that the majority of soldiers have a mindset similar to that.

It's also the ideal mind of the police officer, the laborer, basically anyone who's not top-of-the-ladder. But it shouldn't be. I'd prefer if people were held accountable for their actions, and were unable to fall back on the "authority figure made me do it".

[Warsaw]

I agree, for the trivial things. An authority figure technically can't "make" you do anything unless they take your arm and physically force you to push the button, so to speak. However, if an authority figure threatens your or your loved-ones' well-being to compel you to obey, should you be held accountable? If you pull the trigger, you commit a crime. If you don't, you or your kin die and someone else after you will most likely do it anyways. That's why we have to settle these things after the fact.

[Bodzilla]

ever heard of extortion warsaw.

[thehoodedsmack]

I agree, for the trivial things. An authority figure technically can't "make" you do anything unless they take your arm and physically force you to push the button, so to speak. However, if an authority figure threatens your or your loved-ones' well-being to compel you to obey, should you be held accountable? If you pull the trigger, you commit a crime. If you don't, you or your kin die and someone else after you will most likely do it anyways. That's why we have to settle these things after the fact.

That's a different, and completely hypothetical situation. Unless you're involved in some sort of gangland or terrorist activity, I can't assume that a case like that is the norm. Anyway, you could expect to be held to a different standard in an extreme like that, but never think it justified. And be sure to bring the fictional authority figure threatening you to justice.

[Dwood]

And that's why your rep bar suddenly dropped 12 points.

:haw:

idk what you're talking about my rep's fine nub.

[Spartan094]

idk what you're talking about my rep's fine nub.
Nub this has nothing to do with the thread.

Also still glad this is still civil atleast.

Also

Blindly following orders.
That's how the military has been. The greatest explain is back then when you had muskets, lets all walk in the front line marching towards the enemy being bombarded by cannons and enemy bullets thou the officer says keep pushing and then your fucked after you fire your first shot.

Also here
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Watch it all.

[thehoodedsmack]

That's how the military has been. The greatest explain is back then when you had muskets, lets all walk in the front line marching towards the enemy being bombarded by cannons and enemy bullets thou the officer says keep pushing and then your fucked after you fire your first shot.

I know that's what a military officer wants from their troops. I can't tell whether or not you're advocating it, though.

If you're going to dedicate your life to service of countryman and homeland, that's fine, but you should still retain your sense of right and wrong. Drawing back to the soldier featured in the article, he is an example of an extremist: he feels that the constitution and his superiors' orders are the infallible word of what is right, and says:


I would never want to receive a frag order to Maryland, or North Dakota, or Texas, but it is an order I will follow no matter how much it pains me to do so.

Here he sets, perhaps prematurely, his position on a domestic uprising. It would be more helpful to know his feelings on what he would do if the revolutionists were clearly on the just and moral side, but his words are nevertheless shocking, to imagine that someone would follow blindly such catastrophic orders.

[Spartan094]

If you're going to dedicate your life to service of countryman and homeland, that's fine, but you should still retain your sense of right and wrong.
True, like my great uncle during ww2 in the pacific, he wouldnt fire into a cave because he saw a family in there with a little girl, then his commander got on him and shook him and told him to fire. he was in a tank

There is still people that do have a sense of right and wrong but its comparing between back then and now. Still even if I did go into the Army I would know my sense of right and wrong.

Also to follow orders blindly is about what they do, if you think differently then what your officer tells you to do in a field or so he will get on your ass, still it isn't a win situation, cause in the end you did something wrong.

[bravo22]

So it's against the law now to be a militia and dislike the government? I also don't see what they did, they claimed to have a plan but did they find evidence that they were going to follow through with killing people...? I mean crazy as they may be, what's the crime here?

They found guns and bombs in the suspects' possession. If I recall correctly, possession of bombs is illegal (if you work for a demolitions company you don't get to take the explosives home), because honestly what can you possibly do with a bomb other than kill and/or destroy? Don't try to say that the bomb can be used for self-defense like a gun, because there's no guarantee there won't be any collateral damage resulting from the explosion (that collateral damage could even be to yourself).

That's enough grounds for arrest.

It's not against the law to dislike the government in the West, but it's against the law to express that dislike through violence.

It's called freedom of SPEECH. Not freedom of destruction, not freedom of killing. If you're saying the government is evil, how are you not evil if you take an innocent human life intentionally?

[PenGuin1362]

I say bring it. Some fucker wants to fight because he's under the retarded illusion that our government is a socialist state? I'll shoot you myself. Clearly some one as uneducated as that needs to die anyway.

I'm glad you speak as if you know exactly how the military works. Right or wrong, all the shit goes out the window when you're being shot at. Shit happens sometimes. And yes in some situations soldiers do follow blindly and follow poor orders, but that doesn't mean the entire military is made up of robots who do nothing but blindly follow orders no matter wrong

[Warsaw]

ever heard of extortion warsaw.

That's kinda what my post was talking about... :|

[SiriusTexra]

Uh, just to clear things up here, it was found and admitted that one of them was an FBI provocateur, and was the ring leader in the idea of "going nuts at local cops".

Spurred them on with Charles Manson level dogma to get them caught and make militia groups look bad.


http://imgsrv.wbbm780.com/image/DbGraphic/201004/1534867.jpg?1270408490

Far bottom right.

Also, another interesting fact, Alex Jones interviewed the guy bottom row, second from the left in September last year, on grounds he was suspicious of the group being FBI, and or in the process of being taken over by FBI. I believe fatty called himself "Pale Horse". More like Pale Cow amirite.


So yeah, no surprise really.

[English Mobster]

Give me some sources, Dane, and then perhaps I'll believe you.

I'm sorry, I'm just taking everything you say with a grain of salt.

[SiriusTexra]

Uh, this was on your mainstream media. I don't know what else I can tell you. They reported on him being an "informant" though.

A quick google search always works out pretty well too, but heres what I could find anyway just now.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/undercover-agent-credited-hutaree-militia-bust/story?id=10257584

Lots of spin though. An "informant" yet all the members say he was leading the charge in alot of the criminal ideology, and then it just so happens he turns out to be the FBI rat, and the lead witness in the investigation.

They have been caught doing this before.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local-beat/Synagogue-Bomb-Suspects-The-Feds-Put-Us-Up-to-It-88579537.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6350389.ece

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey/index.ssf?/base/news-11/1226381262204790.xml&coll=1

[neuro]

shit had nothing to do with politica, its just a unch of inbred retards.