[MacOS X] Lions and tigers and bears....

[Futzy]

Is anyone else scared of what apple is doing with Lion? They're trying to take control away from the user and put it into their own hands.
Lion is their attempt to get the same control they have on the iPhone to the PC.
Now, they aren't taking everything away and making it a controlled environment - yet. What they're doing is most likely taking a look into if they are able to do what they want to achieve: A completely "ideological" and "safe" system in which they will approve every single program people use and how they access it.

Microsoft is already swooning over features that apple implements, and I just hope they don't even dare to glance at this. Roles have switched now. It used to be Microsoft the big looming giant that controlled everyones daily electronic lives. Now its Apple and Google, peering into the private lives of everyone that supports their products.

[Bodzilla]

APPLE? OVER-RATED?
CONTROL?

stop the fucking press's.

[ThePlague]

If Windows becomes the same shit as that, i'll be moving to Ubuntu. Until then, i'll stick with just hating Macs.

[Dwood]

Apple's been doing this for ages... It's become the Mac life.

Just wait for the Mac store on Windows. I will seriously lawl.

[Futzy]

http://gizmodo.com/5671359/microsoft-ceo-ballmer-the-companys-riskiest-product-bet-is-the-next-version-of-windows
This better be about midori or metro

[Warsaw]

As soon as I found out that the iPad would be running iOS instead of a full-featured OSX, I figured they'd eventually make the move to do the same on PC. Right now OSX is an open hole in their otherwise closed environment. People can develop and run whatever the hell they want on OSX, and Apple (read: Steve Jobs) probably doesn't like that thought. I'm hoping that people will see the light and say "no fucking way" if Macs start running iOS+.

[ICEE]

APPLE? OVER-RATED?
CONTROL?

stop the fucking press's.

Plus rep.


I am not surprised by this at all. Come on guys, its apple

[Dwood]

Too bad Masterz is Bant.

[Kornman00]

Uh, how about a news article about

what apple is doing with Lion
so people can do some reading before hearing your thoughts. Not everyone cares or keeps up with Apple.

[Limited]

What the heck is going on, what new changes?

[Futzy]

Uh, how about a news article about

so people can do some reading before hearing your thoughts. Not everyone cares or keeps up with Apple.
They're in the beginnings of making their desktop OS the same as their mobile. Every single tech blog has a featured article about this, kind of hard to miss.
APP store, restricted devs, etc.

[Kornman00]

It is when you don't visit tech blogs. (I only regularly visit msnbc.com and gamedev.net for my news)

I'm not the only one asking "what?"; look at Limited. Now back to me. Now at Limited. Now back to me.


I'd still want to read all the fine print of new additions/features before slamming Lion with being the root of The Next Big Evil. People like to jump to conclusions and misguided ideas far too quickly with new things and the fact that the internet helps to propagate these conclusions and misguided ideas like wind in a wild fire doesn't help.

[Futzy]

http://gizmodo.com/5668805/mac-os-x-lion-the-best-features
http://gizmodo.com/5668906/what-is-apples-mission-control
http://gizmodo.com/5670812/big-brother-apple-and-the-death-of-the-program
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/20/os-x-10-7-lion-announced/

[Limited]

Masters says you are idiots, "it's still an open platform, the mac appstore is just an option, like going to cnet or download.com, except built into the OS, also MS is implementing an appstore into Windows 8, it's been public knowlege for some time

Gizmodo is hardly an unbias source, they been trying to put apple in negative light each oportunity they have since Apple had the cops kick down their door durring the stolen iPhone incident
".

From what I've read, they've all reported it being good news, I don't see how you are saying its all doom and gloom.

[Warsaw]

It's an open system right now. If Apple does what Apple generally does, it'll move to close it off. All Lion really does at the moment is bring some features of iOS to OSX; those are the big selling points. That's all well and good, however, it is also just a test bed. If the app store takes off and flies on its own, you can bet your buttons that Apple will take it as a sign that they don't need that open system anymore. Remember, this is Apple we're talking about here, run by Hitler Jobs himself.

[Dwood]

This is basically mac's version of Steam.

[Phopojijo]

This is basically mac's version of Steam.Nah, it's Apple's version of the iPhone App Store (compare Apples with Apples now! :p)

But yeah, they'll remove other options of installing software if they can. It's Apple.

[ShadowSpartan]

As soon as I found out that the iPad would be running iOS instead of a full-featured OSX, I figured they'd eventually make the move to do the same on PC. Right now OSX is an open hole in their otherwise closed environment. People can develop and run whatever the hell they want on OSX, and Apple (read: Steve Jobs) probably doesn't like that thought. I'm hoping that people will see the light and say "no fucking way" if Macs start running iOS+.

Reply from Masterz:

Sorry, didn't realize the man who has had a hand in revolutionizing the technology industry three times already was like a mass murderer. Yes, it's an open system right now, and apple has said before that it will remain an open system. Suppose one day they do decide to make it closed, well lucky for you there is the choice of Windows and Linux, and people can vote with their wallets and Apple will have to deal with their mistake. Unless of course, MS decides to then make their app store and their OS closed as well, then I guess your in trouble.

"as far as apple does what Apple generally does" and "this is APPLE" we're talking about here, what are you trying to imply? They have ONE closed system, designed for their phones and appliances, they sell DRM free music through their store, and push open technologies like HTML5, and created webkit which is used in most modern browsers, and are making facetime an open standard.I have to agree with him on this one. Apple is just giving you the ability to purchase apps from a store which is a part of the OS, they are not forcing anything onto you. I highly doubt Apple would be stupid enough to make OSX a closed environment, that would be a severe turnoff for people using or thinking about using OSX.

[Warsaw]

Shadow, you missed what I said. I said that RIGHT NOW all they are merely doing is giving you options. That's fine. The wolf in sheep's clothing, however, is that these options are a prototype, a testbed to see if they can potentially get away with turning all Macs into iOS-like devices, just with more productivity features on the full-size machines. It wouldn't be much of a turn-off for most users, since it will simply become easier to use and more idiot-proof. It's us power-users who are going to be turned off, and most of us find a closed-system downright revolting because we can't set it up to our liking. Perhaps that's why Linux is so popular in servers, apart from its obvious free-ness.

Masterz is clearly duped by the whole Apple environment. Since when has Steve cared what people think? He leads the company to do what he wants and if people don't like it, well, they are non-entities anyways. How do we know this? Because he deliberately keeps prices high because it keeps his margins high and because it keeps his market share relatively low and that's exactly how he wants it. A case in point is Flash support: people have been screaming for it on iOS devices for ages now, and yet it hasn't materialized. Another example: people want to be able to afford the system, yet the entry-point laptop and desktop models are much more expensive than comparable Windows or Linux PCs. Why? Because he likes the elitist imagery and that keeps his profits up. Trust me, if they even think they can get away with closing it off, they will.

Also, if Masterz thinks I'm implying Jobs a mass murderer, then he has less of a brain than I thought he did. I guess that explains him buying into the Cult of Jobs, who hasn't really revolutionized the industry at all. iPhone: simply made smartphones appealing to the masses. iPad: what the fuck is this...useless, that's what. Give me a real tablet with a legit Wacom digitizer, and I'll consider it (that MBP mod by a third-party company comes to mind...I would buy that). What's the third thing? I can't seem to find it...and don't tell me it's OSX because that's a load of bull considering that people who've had access to its kernel have stated that it's a BSD hack-job with a pretty interface...and its first version was glitchier than Windows ME and Windows 95 combined.

Now don't get me wrong, I love the aesthetics of Apple's devices and I think OSX is fun to use (though not as productive for me), but their insatiable need to close their systems off to everything drives me up the wall, as does their unwavering loyalty to two-year old hardware.

[Pyong Kawaguchi]

Masterz asked me to post this.

Shadow, you missed what I said. I said that RIGHT NOW all they are merely doing is giving you options. That's fine. The wolf in sheep's clothing, however, is that these options are a prototype, a testbed to see if they can potentially get away with turning all Macs into iOS-like devices, just with more productivity features on the full-size machines. It wouldn't be much of a turn-off for most users, since it will simply become easier to use and more idiot-proof. It's us power-users who are going to be turned off, and most of us find a closed-system downright revolting because we can't set it up to our liking. Perhaps that's why Linux is so popular in servers, apart from its obvious free-ness. Yeah, and Barack Obama is a Muslim bent on turning us into a socialist nation. All you are saying is that this is a sign of things to come which will lead to walled garden OS’s. If it happens it’s Apple’s loss and consumers will vote with their wallets, and Apple’s sales will suffer. You’re unjustly jumping to conclusions, and with nothing to back up your claims.

Masterz is clearly duped by the whole Apple environment. Since when has Steve cared what people think? He leads the company to do what he wants and if people don't like it, well, they are non-entities anyways. Well he’s the CEO, it’s his actions that took the company from the brink of bankruptcy to the second most valuable US company. He’s been praised as CEO of the decade by Fortune. Apparently he doesn’t need to care what people think. Henry Ford once said “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said ‘a faster horse’.” Think about that for a minute. How do we know this? Because he deliberately keeps prices high because it keeps his margins high and because it keeps his market share relatively low and that's exactly how he wants it. He wants his products to be a premium product, and that’s how they differentiate themselves from the masses. The premium price shows in the build quality, reliability, and service. Need some sources? Here. http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/02/22/apple-is-no-1-in-reliability-survey/ http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/02/22/apple-is-no-1-in-reliability-survey/ A case in point is Flash support: people have been screaming for it on iOS devices for ages now, and yet it hasn't materialized. And so far he’s been proven right, it’s been implemented poorly on Android phones, and just this week half of the H.264 content on the web is available in HTML5 and is compatible with iOS devices. Hell, even the porn industry has been backing HTML5, and it’s only become a big issue in what? The last 12 months? Flash isn’t good for mobile devices, and so far Job’s has been proven right. If you haven’t read his thoughts on flash public letter, you can read it here. http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ . Another example: people want to be able to afford the system, yet the entry-point laptop and desktop models are much more expensive than comparable Windows or Linux PCs. Why? Because he likes the elitist imagery and that keeps his profits up. [Actually, just today it was anounced by Apple the profit margins are going to decline. With things like the $99 Apple TV and iPhones, the $999 Macbook Airs, and the iPad’s low entry point, they are becoming cheaper and more affordable than ever. Are they still more expensive? Certainly, but from my buying experience and the links provided earlier, you are getting much higher quality control and service than the compeditors. [/b] Trust me, if they even think they can get away with closing it off, they will. And you know this how? Even if they did, the stock would suffer and sales would be down, and they’d be forced to reverse their position

Also, if Masterz thinks I'm implying Jobs a mass murderer, then he has less of a brain than I thought he did. [Actually, I was pointing out that your comparision is a gross exageration.[/b]I guess that explains him buying into the Cult of Jobs, who hasn't really revolutionized the industry at all. iPhone: simply made smartphones appealing to the masses. It actually has reshaped the whole phone industry, you should check out this article from Wired. http://www.wired.com/gadgets/wireless/magazine/16-02/ff_iphone?currentPage=all Without the iPhones, you wouldn’t have your Blackberry Torches and Storms, you wouldn’t have WP7, and Android would still be a Blackberry imitator, and who knows when multitouch would have gone mainstream. There is a lot of stuff covered in that article I don’t wish to summarize, but I highly recommend it to anyone remotely interested in Apple or the smartphone industry. iPad: what the fuck is this...useless, that's what. Give me a real tablet with a legit Wacom digitizer, and I'll consider it (that MBP mod by a third-party company comes to mind...I would buy that). This actually wasn’t one of my points, but there’s no denying it has revived interests in tablets. We could have a whole discussion about the iPad, but it’s sold amazingly well and is getting use in the corporate world as well as consumer. What's the third thing? I can't seem to find it...and don't tell me it's OSX because that's a load of bull considering that people who've had access to its kernel have stated that it's a BSD hack-job with a pretty interface...and its first version was glitchier than Windows ME and Windows 95 combined. OSX is a solid OS, although W7 has done a good job finally catching up. The other two products that revolutionized the tech world are the original Macintosh, and of course iPod+iTunes. I don’t think I have to go into detail on either of those, but the iPod and digital downloads have changed the entire music industry.

Now don't get me wrong, I love the aesthetics of Apple's devices and I think OSX is fun to use (though not as productive for me), but their insatiable need to close their systems off to everything drives me up the wall, as does their unwavering loyalty to two-year old hardware. Like I pointed out earlier, other than iOS and the iPods, what closed systems are you talking about? I pointed out several things that are the exact opposite of closed systems, but it seems you chose to just ignore them.

My responses in bold

[Bodzilla]

URRGHH for a man that copped shit for having a ton of fanboys he tries pretty hard to be one.

Steve jobshasn't revolutionised anything other then marketing.

Thats it.

[Warsaw]

Wat. That was the worst response I've read in awhile. That whole Obama metaphor didn't quite match what I was saying either, because it didn't base itself in what is currently going on, while what I said did.

Also, Masterz still didn't get it. I didn't say they would be successful at making a walled-garden OS. I only said they would attempt to do it if the related testbed components in Lion are successful. If consumers vote with their wallets, then that's that. Please properly comprehend what I wrote instead of shoving words in my mouth. And I do have a basis to back up what I said: previous experiences with the company and its products and observation of Apple's trends in the past five years. That should be plenty since it will be people at the same level as me buying these things.

Read it, and it read like a bunch of people who have been sucked into the whole storm. The iPhone did nothing that hadn't been done before. Smartphones and touch screens just weren't appealing to the masses until Apple made them...Apple has always had that elite imagery so when they release old news, all of a sudden its the new hip thing to be/get. Apple != revoutionary, Apple = Popular, and more power to them for that. The only item that Apple ever did recently that was truly revolutionary was iTunes and henceforth, the App Store. The last revolutionary device was the original Macintosh.

The iPad is a niche product, it does what it was intended to do very well and presently has no equal. I concede that it has revived interest in tablets, but its revived interest in the wrong type of tablet. I'd be willing to bet that there is a huge portion of people out there want a productivity tablet as well, not just a consumption tablet. Again, it's not revolutionary, it's just Apple.

Windows 7 is Microsoft finally catching up? Please. OSX was utter shit when it came out and didn't finally come into its own until Tiger, honestly...and I've used Cheetah, Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, and Leopard(s). Windows XP was far more robust AND stable than OSX was, even without Service Pack 2. Don't even get me started on compatibility either. There are many basic modern features that OSX does not support, such as blu-ray and TRIMM. You also can't just pop in, say, a video card unless it has Apple's blessing; a GTX285 will not work unless it's the "GTX285 for Mac"...or you went through the hassle of flashing it.

What closed-wall systems am I talking about? All Apple has are iOS, iPod/iTunes, and OSX. Two of those are closed; that's 66.67%. Now they are showing signs that they want to close OSX off, too. It would fit with their business model, which is to sell you hardware that runs their software; for them, it makes sense because they can control user experience even more.

What have you pointed out that I've ignored? iPhone, iPad, and iPod: all closed due to iOS and its reliance on iTunes/AppStore, which is also closed. OSX is the only thing still open. I don't know about you, but I prefer being able to do whatever I want instead of having to rely on what's available through an app store, which is passed through Jobs's filter. Like I said, I'm not hating on Apple, just their draconian business model. I have voted with my wallet. I would like to give them my money because their machines are nice, but until they stop treating every single consumer like he or she is a child who needs his or her hand held, they won't get it.

tl;dr: Apple is not revolutionary, they are just iconic.

[Dwood]

I have a minor point, which I think undermines your argument about the iPhone and iTouch and iPad. Those devices were cool because someone went to the drawing board and said "Something's wrong here (looking at the phone market). We know what's going to happen in the future as devices become more accessible and touch oriented" What they did was take something that was proven in the past, but simply became archaic. (palms)

They did something revolutionary and simplified the devices that were out at the time.

[Warsaw]

That makes it evolutionary, not revolutionary. They also aren't the first to slap on a row of icons for a touch device. The only reasons it took off are because Apple is very good at polishing user experience (i.e. if it ain't up to snuff by release, it ain't in the release) and it's Apple, and therefore cool.

[Bodzilla]

they only reason apple has that "cool" image though is because of the insanely good marketing they have.

who ever came up with the black silhouette on colourful background with white ipod silhouette was a fucking genius.

[Warsaw]

Indeed, I agree. Credit where credit is due, but not one iota where it isn't.