Halo: Cryptum

[Kornman00]

So the book (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Halo:_Cryptum) was released today, I just got my copy delivered earlier but haven't started reading it yet. Anyone else buy or intend to buy this book? As always, use spoiler tags when appropriate.

[=sw=warlord]

From what I've read of this book.
There are so many things broken by the story that it's almost as bad as legends was.
I mean, seriously? humans went to war with the forerunners and were devolved by the forerunners?
This isn't Pokemon where you can just evolve and devolve creatures at a whim..

[TeeKup]

Shit. This was released today? Must get. D:

[thehoodedsmack]

Read the synopsis. That sounds like a very bad book.

[Hotrod]

I thought it was coming out in February...looks like I'm going to buy this tomorrow :P

[DarkHalo003]

Read the synopsis. That sounds like a very bad book.
Yeah, that's just weird. I'm disappointed in that canon now.

The point of the Forerunners was that they were supposed to be the most sophisticated and only high intelligence within the galaxy at the time. The Synopsis really just ruined that theme, especially considering there may not even be anything about the Precursors, a Race I'd really rather have been incorporated than what is given at hand. I'll probably still read it because I enjoy Halo Books, but there is seriously so much more that could have been done than this hoo-hah. I hope that Synopsis is either misguided or wrong; if it's not, then this will be the first Halo book I honestly will not enjoy canon-wise.

[Arteen]

I'm not going to bother to pick this one up. It sounds incredibly dumb. It makes the humans, the forerunners and both their struggles much less compelling.

[Warsaw]

Halo was uncompelling by the end of Halo 2's plot. I stopped after Ghosts of Onyx, chronologically.

[Pooky]

Wasn't it nicer when we had this great sense of mystery about everything?

Halo 1's plot was so much better before I knew all the answers. I like what my imagination came up with better than what Bungie did.

[ejburke]

Wasn't it nicer when we had this great sense of mystery about everything?

Halo 1's plot was so much better before I knew all the answers. I like what my imagination came up with better than what Bungie did.My thoughts exactly. It's like the Master Chief in his Long Sword at the end of Halo 1 took a wrong turn at Albuquerque and flew into some retarded alternate universe.

And then when I heard about a Forerunner book, I just knew that it would only serve to piss out the dwindling flame of their mystique

[Arteen]

My thoughts exactly. It's like the Master Chief in his Long Sword at the end of Halo 1 took a wrong turn at Albuquerque and flew into some retarded alternate universe.
I think that's the actual plot of First Strike.

[TeeKup]

We had an empire....and went to war with the forerunners, and they beat us....then the forerunner were defeated by the flood, so they decided to make us their chosen inheritors...


Someone help me make sense of this.

[DarkHalo003]

What really makes no sense is that:


The Forerunners negotiate a peace treaty with the Prophets, but totally bombard Humanity into oblivion and devolution while also naming Humanity their successors. Then the Flood is actually some powder that Humanity encountered first that mutated from Human pet owners rubbing it on their pets. That's corny as hell. I thought the Flood had always been an horrifying force from the getgo, not some green crack cocaine on Steroids.

FUUUUUUU---- In before Bungie says "It was 343 Industry's idea, not ours."


The only difference between Halo: Cryptum and Halo: First Strike is that First Strike actually makes decent sense and is consistent with the canon. Cryptum is just random as hell, offers no consistency as what Bungie had dubbed the Forerunners as, and also belittles the Flood's origin. They really should have just left it alone. That or focus on individual accounts of the Forerunners suffering during the 300 years war between the Flood and the Forerunners.

[Cagerrin]

This is what happens when you milk a franchise; eventually the tit starts giving you blood with the milk and it tastes pretty horrible.

[Warsaw]

Hey, Teek, doesn't this whole "humans were equal to Forerunners" thing sound familiar?

[TeeKup]

Yeah it does...Certainly does. >_>

[Warsaw]

Yeah it does...Certainly does. >_>

I did it more tastefully, I think. Microsoft/Bungie has been hacking my brain and twisting my ideas into abominations since 2002. :saddowns:

[TeeKup]

Agreed. I still want to read the book and see how this author did it. Even though I may end up hating it.

[Higuy]

I was pumped for this book, and now im not. Sounds pretty bad... ugh.

Only good books so far imo is First Strike and the Fall of Reach.

[Hotrod]

So has anybody read this yet? I wanna know if I should get it or not.

[Arteen]

Hey, Teek, doesn't this whole "humans were equal to Forerunners" thing sound familiar?
It was always a stupid theory and I'm glad it's not true.

[Warsaw]

Comment was an in-thing. Around 2005, I had a thought-out and detailed story (made using all we knew at the time) where the [humanoid, in my imagination] Forerunners are in a two-front war with the Flood and proto-Covenant (containing the physically adept Prophets and Elites...helps explain why both had possession of major Forerunner artifacts). I had the Flood be an experiment gone wrong. They were supposed be a bio-engineered virus that was to be used to infect and control a key member of the Prophet leadership and gain intelligence (kind of like Roughnecks: SST's spider controllers). They thought it had worked on their test subjects until it mutated into a new strain that began shaping the host body for survival (combat and eventually carriers), originally developing the Infection Form as a carrier vessel for more viruses, which in turn evolved into a new centre for the nervous system of a host, overriding the higher-level and motor functions of the brain. Nobody official source had ever mentioned the Flood as being extragalactic at this point, so my origin story made sense, especially given the high level of science that the Forerunners were capable of. Since finding out that they (as mentioned in my Halo Encyclopoedia) are extragalactic, I would use that in a remake, because it's more intimidating and implies that there is a galaxy desolated by Flood out there.

Since First Strike had explored time twisting, I built on that and had the main character be one of the Spartans thrown back to that period. I can't remember how or why, never wrote this shit down. Since the story was intended for a custom campaign (which TeeKup briefly helped out with before the project closed), the ultimate goal was to actually ignite the Halo network after exhausting previous options in earlier levels. Impressed by your species's qualities, they elect to pass down their genetic inheritance to life forms on Earth still remaining post-cataclysm before they die off. Those life forms would eventually evolve into Man. With the inheritance, it explains why humanity is the Reclaimer species.

I still think that old story is more tasteful than Cryptum. Cryptum is a disgrace. Hell, I like my interpretation of the Haloverse better than the shit they've been spewing since Halo 3 (though the little data logs were amazing, and can still tie into my own interpretation well).

[Arteen]

Anything is better than the galaxy-ravaging Flood being a powder to rub on dogs.

[paladin]

Card should be writing these books.

[Warsaw]

Or Nylund. He did justice to Halo. Maybe they did ask him to do it but he turned it down because he knew they were going to dictate to him. I honestly wouldn't blame him.

[TVTyrant]

In before they blame this on 343 industries :realsmug:

[Kornman00]

and Frankieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Heathen]

This looks awful.

[=sw=warlord]

In before they blame this on 343 industries :realsmug:

I knew as soon as I heard this guy mention that he loved the idea of "What-ever" he wrote would be considered canon that this book would be ruined by trying to change the existing canon.

[PenGuin1362]

this is gay. star wars fucks halo and this is their retarded offspring.

[=sw=warlord]

this is gay. star wars fucks star trek who previously got several STD's from Stargate and this is their retarded offspring.

Ftfy.
This is almost like in Stargate with the ancients being the creators of both the replicators and the wraith who then get wiped out by another plague in which they created.

[Warsaw]

I knew as soon as I heard this guy mention that he loved the idea of "What-ever" he wrote would be considered canon that this book would be ruined by trying to change the existing canon.

This shit isn't even B-grade talent. Where'd they pick this guy up?

[DarkHalo003]

In before they blame this on 343 industries :realsmug:
Too late, I beat you to it.lol.

But seriously, keeping this idea alive. I don't think Bungie would have honestly allowed this. Joseph Staten and the other creative writers did a great job with the video games' canon. They maintained the Halo feel all of the way through Reach in my opinion. I just wonder why this passed through Frankie so easily; he was one of the original story riders. This seriously just makes me sadface with canon. I'm probably still going to read the books, but I'll try my best to ignore centering any of my future works around it.

[=sw=warlord]

This shit isn't even B-grade talent. Where'd they pick this guy up?
Apparently 343I went to him to write this stuff up he didn't ask them.
Apparently he's had experience writing star trek and star wars books but usually they're considered non-canon in terms of overall layout.
I'f I could find the interview I would show you exactly what he said.

[DarkHalo003]

Apparently 343I went to him to write this stuff up he didn't ask them.
Apparently he's had experience writing star trek and star wars books but usually they're considered non-canon in terms of overall layout.
I'f I could find the interview I would show you exactly what he said.
Which would explain the apparent lack of creativity. This just makes me facepalm. I hate it when franchises try to mimic each other. Star Wars has its own thing mostly, mainly because it also moves forward and has a central theme to it - the force. Star Trek is simply origin in its own right. Halo was original in its own since as well until now. Sure they had an ancient civilization involved, but the original idea around it made it unique. Now it's just a copycat. I hate it when the gaming industries DON'T dictate what the writer is writing for canonical novels; some writers just can't create any different scenarios with other franchises. Not discrediting Bear or anything (I'm sure he's a good writer), but I seriously wished they would've chosen someone else, maybe even Joseph Staten, Buckell, or Deitz again. OR MAYBE THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE WRITTEN PUBLISHABLE CONTENT ABOUT THE FORERUNNERS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

[=sw=warlord]

You want to know what will really piss you off?
Some of the writers for these up coming books have NEVER played a Halo game in the past nor whilst writing the books.
One writer mentioned that he played through the series half way through writing their book.
Huzzah found the interview with the authors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UzHR-GSzT0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxvXmtH-JQ4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXxHuBakKkc&feature=related

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/residentlune/PLFrontier-1.png

[DarkHalo003]

The Graphic Novels at least had some sense to them. Evolutions was great as well and for the most part the writers were close enough to the canonical mark. As long as they do a good job writing the stuff, I'm okay with their not playing it all completely (although it would be wonderful if they actually did). But considering how far off of the mark Bear had been with his and how much it correlates with the other series he wrote, this is just simply stupifying. Undoubtedly, if it turns out 343i was the origin of this madness, this does not leave good notions on what to expect out of 343i.

Also, why do most of the writers (not Frankie) sound so generic and dumbfounded, generally speaking, in those interviews? And I really want to just ignore Bear's novel, Mr. Peter David, simply because it's really really corny and run-of-the-mill. It's like Bear said: "....radical...."

[=sw=warlord]

The only and I mean only book I'm even slightly looking forward to is Karen's book about Halsey and that's because she's looking at Catherine from a journalists view not trying to turn her into some other character.
Personally I think if you won't go through the existing canon already in a franchise then you may as well GTFO and not bother trying to write for it.
I mean what the fuck is the point of writing a book about the story if you won't lift a finger to see what the canon is about in the first place?

[Arteen]

Too late, I beat you to it.lol.

But seriously, keeping this idea alive. I don't think Bungie would have honestly allowed this. Joseph Staten and the other creative writers did a great job with the video games' canon. They maintained the Halo feel all of the way through Reach in my opinion. I just wonder why this passed through Frankie so easily; he was one of the original story riders. This seriously just makes me sadface with canon. I'm probably still going to read the books, but I'll try my best to ignore centering any of my future works around it.
The Fall of Reach was a mix of good and dumb. The Flood wasn't any good. First Strike was a similar mix of good and dumb. Halo 2 was an ambitious mess of a story (with a ridiculous talking, rhyming plant monster to boot), and Halo 3's story was also lacking. Reach's story was offensively bad.

I don't think Bungie would be so awful as to allow Cryptum's story specifically, but a lot of crap was put into Halo's canon on their own watch, or even by Bungie themselves.

[DarkHalo003]

The only and I mean only book I'm even slightly looking forward to is Karen's book about Halsey and that's because she's looking at Catherine from a journalists view not trying to turn her into some other character.
Personally I think if you won't go through the existing canon already in a franchise then you may as well GTFO and not bother trying to write for it.
I mean what the fuck is the point of writing a book about the story if you won't lift a finger to see what the canon is about in the first place?
I'll look forward to any book that exists within the parameters that were created before Bear's and onwards. In other words, I really don't like considering Bear's novel canonical. If the writers try to expand outside the story arcs currently given (excluding Bear's), then this may turn very ugly.

[Warsaw]

The Fall of Reach was a mix of good and dumb. The Flood wasn't any good. First Strike was a similar mix of good and dumb. Halo 2 was an ambitious mess of a story (with a ridiculous talking, rhyming plant monster to boot), and Halo 3's story was also lacking. Reach's story was offensively bad.

I don't think Bungie would be so awful as to allow Cryptum's story specifically, but a lot of crap was put into Halo's canon on their own watch, or even by Bungie themselves.

Curious, what do you consider "dumb" in Fall of Reach? That was the highlight of the series, if you ask me, and I find any of it stupid. It all fit together.

[Pooky]

The Fall of Reach was a mix of good and dumb. The Flood wasn't any good. First Strike was a similar mix of good and dumb. Halo 2 was an ambitious mess of a story (with a ridiculous talking, rhyming plant monster to boot), and Halo 3's story was also lacking. Reach's story was offensively bad.

I don't think Bungie would be so awful as to allow Cryptum's story specifically, but a lot of crap was put into Halo's canon on their own watch, or even by Bungie themselves.

Oh come on, Gravemind was an awesome villain in Halo 2. Halo 3 is where they totally ruined it.

[Warsaw]

I still don't fancy the idea of a higher intelligence in the Flood. It just makes them less scary, knowing that they have a mind that can think and rationalize. I prefer the image faceless, endless, mindless tides just rolling over the galaxy. An unfeeling swarm of flesh hellbent on eating everything. Very primal.

[TeeKup]

Like the Tyranids!

[DarkHalo003]

I still don't fancy the idea of a higher intelligence in the Flood. It just makes them less scary, knowing that they have a mind that can think and rationalize. I prefer the image faceless, endless, mindless tides just rolling over the galaxy. An unfeeling swarm of flesh hellbent on eating everything. Very primal.
I don't see the Gravemind as a rationalizing intelligence though. The Flood still give me shivers with the Gravemind because now the tyrannical and mindless monstrosities can think. Instead of running straight at you, they now strafe, back-up, et cetera, and Gravemind's voice makes environments pretty eery. The Gravemind is essentially the Flood as a whole that can speak and deceive/corrupt anything its minion can't.

Halo 3 maintained the character of the Gravemind, but the massive gap between the events of Halo 2 and Halo 3 minimized how the Gravemind in Halo 3 came-off, in my opinion. There weren't enough moments that continued the inexorable force that the Gravemind was representing in Halo 3 and you never saw the Gravemind's face or residence in High Charity.

[=sw=warlord]

In short there wasn't enough scenes where you actually saw the Gravemind.
I enjoyed the scene where the Arbiter, John and the Gravemind were having the discussion on what exactly the Halo array was for.
The idea of a Virus having a hivemind where the knowledge and thought process was administered across the entire hive was alot more frightening than the idea of this one huge monster.
I can understand though why the flood would create such a creature as you would think if there was one entity purely for task management they would be a bit more efficient than having say a portion of the mind wiped when the combat forms are killed.

TL,DR, needs more Gravemind talking scenes where you actually see the gravemind for what and who it is.

[DarkHalo003]

In short there wasn't enough scenes where you actually saw the Gravemind.
I enjoyed the scene where the Arbiter, John and the Gravemind were having the discussion on what exactly the Halo array was for.
The idea of a Virus having a hivemind where the knowledge and thought process was administered across the entire hive was alot more frightening than the idea of this one huge monster.
I can understand though why the flood would create such a creature as you would think if there was one entity purely for task management they would be a bit more efficient than having say a portion of the mind wiped when the combat forms are killed.

TL,DR, needs more Gravemind talking scenes where you actually see the gravemind for what and who it is.
Although you have to admit, the parts in Halo 3 during Cortana when the Gravemind was screaming in your phase was pretty crazy. But I agree, more Gravemind appearances would have been a good addition.

[Arteen]

Curious, what do you consider "dumb" in Fall of Reach? That was the highlight of the series, if you ask me, and I find any of it stupid. It all fit together.
It's been a long time since I read the novel, but here are a few things I remember not liking. Stuff like Elites and Hunters not showing up until the last year of the war. Only a handful of Spartans ever died between the start of the Spartan program and the last year of the war. And after that, they start dropping like flies. Spartans only got Mk V armor and shields (based off of Jackal tech) right before the battle of Reach, and then they all get Mk VI armor a month later. Instead of distinguishable personalities, all the Spartans got were distinguishable names.

I got the general impression that the only interesting events during the entirety of the war are those that Nylund writes about. It's pretty good overall, but it just doesn't click with me. This guy made a nice post about it.
(http://forums.bungie.org/halo/archive34.pl?read=1026940)

[Warsaw]

Many, many valid points in there. However, I don't think he understood what happened with Cortana when she jumped to 04. She didn't actively choose it, it was an impulse. Nobody else at that point had figured out that the rock had coordinates, and if the UNSC didn't, I doubt the Covenant did (we have better scientists and more open minds).

[=sw=warlord]

Many, many valid points in there. However, I don't think he understood what happened with Cortana when she jumped to 04. She didn't actively choose it, it was an impulse. Nobody else at that point had figured out that the rock had coordinates, and if the UNSC didn't, I doubt the Covenant did (we have better scientists and more open minds).

The covenant have engineers by the dozen though.
They're the ones who do the majority of the science in the covenant so it is possible the covenant would figure it out.

[Warsaw]

As far as I can tell, the Engineers are very adept technicians, but they are not scientists, philosophers, writers, or artists. To deduce that a bunch of seemingly random symbols on a rock is actually a set of galactic co-ordinates takes an imagination.

[=sw=warlord]

As far as I can tell, the Engineers are very adept technicians, but they are not scientists, philosophers, writers, or artists. To deduce that a bunch of seemingly random symbols on a rock is actually a set of galactic co-ordinates takes an imagination.

Don't forget in Contact Harvest it was an engineer which created the tractor/chopper from the insides of one of the drop ships.
They're also considered to be biological computers which have some connection to the Forerunners, Infact I'm reasonably sure scratch that certain they were created by the Forerunners.


The Huragok that are now employed by the covenant were discovered and gathered from many extant Forerunner facilities, Initially by the San Shyuum and later by the Covenant proper.
Though not specifically designed for assignment within habitable zones, all huragok currently engaged have been recovered from M Class facilities.
It is inspiring to see one of the builders most humble creations has survived through the Dark times of Post-Activation.

[Warsaw]

Again, creating the Brute Chopper was the Engineer having something to fiddle with. Looking at symbols on (in?) a rock doesn't give them anything to fiddle with. They learn impossibly quickly if they can play with whatever it is they are studying. Even if they are living Forerunner computers, it doesn't rule out the possibility that they are very good technicians and not much more. A computer is only as good as its software, so to speak. On the flip side, it doesn't prove me right, either. I just think it's a reasonable explanation as to why the Covenant didn't go rushing to Installation 04 as soon as they recovered the rock from Sigma Octanus IV. That, and their little device had Reach painted as a huge gold-mine of Forerunner "artifacts."

[Kornman00]

They're artificial life. Not workstations. It doesn't really take imagniation, but the ability of deduction. Go learn about neural nets in the topic of AL.

[=sw=warlord]

They're artificial life. Not workstations. It doesn't really take imagniation, but the ability of deduction. Go learn about neural nets in the topic of AL.
That's what I was getting at.
If these Engineers were from M class facilities [assuming M means Military or medical it may be that the engineers had previous experience with the symbols.

[Cortexian]

The only books I like to consider canon are Contact Harvest, Fall of Reach, The Flood, First Strike (kinda sorta, although it's an alternate timeline everything else mostly makes sense and sticks to the laid down facts), and Ghosts of Onyx to some extent. I like to include Ghosts of Onyx because it gives me hope that not all of the Spartans got fucked up, and that some are still unaccounted for on deep space missions and stuff.

[Warsaw]

They're artificial life. Not workstations. It doesn't really take imagniation, but the ability of deduction. Go learn about neural nets in the topic of AL.


Deduction is a process and can at times require an imagination. I have yet to see them, in any media, figure something out that wasn't hands on. They are artificial life, sure, but as an example not all life on Earth has the cognitive capacity that humans possess. Sentient? Definitely, but with limited capabilities.

Maybe they did have previous experience with the symbols. Perhaps the Covenant elected to not even show them the symbols because they believed only the Prophets could decipher them. We may never know.

[Delta4907]

Didn't engineers in ODST write forerunner symbols over some walls? So that probably means they've seen them before, and most likely know what they mean. Though that's not a proven fact.

[Hotrod]

According to Halopedia, Engineers are a race of biological supercomputers created by the Forerunners : http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Engineer

I dunno, I just thought that the page there could help clear a few things up

[=sw=warlord]

Didn't engineers in ODST write forerunner symbols over some walls? So that probably means they've seen them before, and most likely know what they mean. Though that's not a proven fact.

Very true.
Considering the Engineers came from Forerunner facilities and were created by said Forerunners it's very possible that they knew what the symbols had mean't.
I mean who here would not understand 23X43 in real life navigation? [protip: Grid 23 by 43]

[Warsaw]

Protip: it was Grid 13 x 24 in the book.

The Engineers didn't exactly appreciate the Covenant. I can imagine them withholding knowledge, and the Covenant don't know anything about it. Deliberately playing stupid.

[TeeKup]

So I JUST finished reading the book.

The good writing is put off by the fact that the Forerunners and Precursors have been ruined in their entirety (for me at least). Good job Greg Bear, I don't think I'll ever buy anything Halo ever again (not that it matters but whatever).

Reach ruined multiplayer for me, and Greg Bear and Microsoft or who ever the fuck commissioned him to write this just ruined the story and canon.

Fuck this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3-4_NgXwF0&feature=player_detailpage#t=26s

[TVTyrant]

At first I thought this was the title of the 343 Industries title and got excited.

Then I realized it was about this pos book and got depressed.

:smithicide:

[Arteen]

On one hand, the book disproves that stupid "humans and forerunner are the same species" theory, but on the other hand, it made humanity's backstory even worse than that. I just don't see what it adds to the Halo universe. Same with Reach's data pads.

[Warsaw]

They killed the awe and wonder. Yay.

My version is better. Bungie's version is no longer canon, in my opinion, because they are obviously terrible at making and approving stories.

[Hotrod]

This is the first Halo book I've refused to read, since it completely fucks up the story. Am not happy :maddowns:

[Warsaw]

This is the first Halo book I've refused to read, since it completely fucks up the story. Am not happy :maddowns:

Same here. I don't even want to know what they did. From bits and piece I've read, I hate loathe it already.

[TeeKup]

If ANYONE cares and was interested in the Forerunner as much and me as Wasaw, stay THE FUCK away from this. The entire book was a slow downhill then the very ending just sent it off ravine into a pit of lava.

[Warsaw]

If I wasn't so wrapped up in school and my own universal project, I would definitely want to write some short fictions to combat this irresponsible defacing of a good idea.


So many things to write, so little time. I have, in order of importance to me:
-Expanse project (novels + drawings)
-Post-Expanse project (short fiction + comic)
-The American Manifesto (political paper)
-Battlezone: Truman Era (writings + drawings)
-Forerunner timeline
-Halo re-imagining (set of drawings and minor alterations to the back story to clean it up)

Why must school be such a grind?

[Phopojijo]

Wasn't it nicer when we had this great sense of mystery about everything?

Halo 1's plot was so much better before I knew all the answers. I like what my imagination came up with better than what Bungie did.It's not having the answers... it's having the answers revealed in Scooby Doo "It's the Professor!!" moments.

Also Halo 1 was a completely different theme from every other of the Halos. It was about the Ring -- the environment. The contrast between what it felt like and what it was.

[Arteen]

They killed the awe and wonder. Yay.
It's not even that that bothers me. I'm fine with 343i fleshing out the forerunner backstory. It's the sheer inevitability of humanity's successes that I dislike. It undermines the significance of every human triumph and makes their struggles much less compelling.

Forerunners didn't choose humanity to be the reclaimers because they saw a potential in the young species to become a galactic civilization greater than their own. No, they chose humanity to be reclaimers because they already had a galactic civilization greater than their own. Humans didn't survive the war against the Covenant because of the perseverance of the human spirit or anything like that. No, they had a secret council of guardian angel AIs making all of the decisions behind the scenes. Fujikawa and Shaw inventing the slipspace drive and allowing humanity to travel across the galaxy? That's not special, they're just retreading old ground. Humanity's few successes in the war? Was that impressive thinking and willpower, or was it all planned out by completely superfluous AIs?

There's just no, "Humanity, fuck yeah!" feeling to it.

[Dwood]

No. Spoiler that Arteen. I can't read that. I want to vomit. Edit:

I'd rather Humans == forerunner.

[=sw=warlord]

I would have preferred it to be like Stargate's Ancients =/= tauri but with the forerunners mostly killing themselves off.
I say mostly because I feel there should be some leverage to have a encounter with at least one Forerunner that may have escaped during the war to avoid the flood.

One can only imagine the kind of conversation you might get with a Forerunner and a Gravemind having a conversation.

[DarkHalo003]

I generally hate this fiction in generally. It totally defeats the mysticism and power of the Forerunners in many respects. Hurrrrrr this seems even more and more like just another Sci-Fi story and not another HALO story. I liked Halo because it was different enough from Stargate/Star Trek canonically speaking. Now it's slightly ruined because some dumb-minded writers decided to write canon for a universe they've barely dwelled in. That's probably what makes hate this situation the most; hardly any of them actually have actually dwelled in this universe.

[Warsaw]

Most sci-fi sucks. The best stuff was written 30-60 years ago. New-age science fiction is generally garbage. Even Mass Effect is garbage. Reapers...really? Couldn't come up with something better than that?

The only good new stuff I've read are Brian Herbert's Dune books. Specifically, all of the ones taking place during the Butlerian Jihad. I've never been so enraged or depressed at the actions and plot developments of characters in a book before those. Great writing.

[nuttyyayap]

Hey, guys, remember back when Halo didn't have a "canon", so to speak? Back when it was a game with next to nothing explained? It should have STAYED that way.
Although I did like the first few books.

[DarkHalo003]

Hey, guys, remember back when Halo didn't have a "canon", so to speak? Back when it was a game with next to nothing explained? It should have STAYED that way.
Although I did like the first few books.
I liked the universe before this crappiness that ruined much of the point of the Forerunners. The Forerunners were supposed to be like Guardians to the galaxy, not this trifled and easily challengeable race of non-mystics. I thought it was alright to put more detail into the Forerunners, but having a writer who is completely foreign to the Halo-verse and wrote the beginnings to many other sci-fi universes was a stupid move. Halo's fiction has been all about it being its own thing. Now I can't even say it is because any other sci-fi fan will only see it as a fun game and not a great universe.

[Luzaphant]

Don't have the money, sucks... :(

[=sw=warlord]

Holy fucking shit that signature is big.

[TeeKup]

Don't have the money, sucks... :(
You wouldn't want to waste your money on this.

[Luzaphant]

You wouldn't want to waste your money on this.

Wait, erm You mean its not worth buying?:gonk:

[TeeKup]

Go back to page 7 and read.

[Kornman00]

Fool me once, same on you. Fool me twice (http://halo.xbox.com/en-us/news/headline/tor-books-reveals-title-cover-art-and-release-date-of-second-halo-novel-by-greg-bear/113219)...

I swear, if this stupid mother fucker fucks up another goddamn Halo book, I will make it my duty to ruin Halo 4 in any way, shape, or form that I can.

http://halo.xbox.com/Content/assets/en-us/blog/News/TorBooksRevealsTitleCoverArtAndReleaseDateOfTheSec ondHaloNovelByGregBear/HALO-Primordium-FINAL-HC.jpg

[TeeKup]

Not buying it, will not even skim through it in the book store.

[Hotrod]

I haven't even read Cryptum so I don't see why I would buy the sequel.

[Arteen]

The first book was kind of enjoyable as a stand-alone story. Just pretend it has nothing to do with Halo. Your brain will hemorrhage if you think for too long about the Flood's origins as an ancient human society pet cosmetic.

[DarkHalo003]

The first book was kind of enjoyable as a stand-alone story. Just pretend it has nothing to do with Halo. Your brain will hemorrhage if you think for too long about the Flood's origins as an ancient human society pet cosmetic.
Yeah, that was a load of shit. I haven't read it (my local stores lack it, kind of funny IMO) and probably won't, but I've read nearly every synopsis about it.

I swear, if this stuff doesn't become somewhat original (aka if Bear doesn't deviate from his traditional copypasta), I may rage something stupid on the new Halo forums on the Community site.

[dazman23]

The first book was kind of enjoyable as a stand-alone story. Just pretend it has nothing to do with Halo. Your brain will hemorrhage if you think for too long about the Flood's origins as an ancient human society pet cosmetic.

I just finished reading it for the second time and i found it more enjoyable to read. The only real problem I had was the gaps of 10 or so pages where nothing happened or it was just Bear describing something and i had forgotten what the hell was going on in the first place. Oh and that everything seem to just happened at the end of the book.

[TeeKup]

I was happy until I noticed it was a bot.

[Kornman00]

Happy? Happy in Paraguay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=414TmP12WAU).

[supersniper]

well i just noticed this topic, and there's a lot to read. can someone just give me a heads up on either yes buy the book or no don't buy the book?

[Warsaw]

No, don't buy the book.

[Kornman00]

No, don't buy the book.
Especially if you enjoyed the books that came before it. Fuck this Forerunner bulllshit.

[TeeKup]

Stay. Away.

[supersniper]

kk i shall avoid itt

[Kornman00]

A bunch of heretics in this thread (http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1108940) ಠ_ಠ

Grim called my Cryptum hate BS and said the book is badass :mech:

[DarkHalo003]

A bunch of heretics in this thread (http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1108940) ಠ_ಠ

Grim called my Cryptum hate BS and said the book is badass :mech:
HBO is too passive with a lot of things, mainly because a lot of older community members (not like, college older, but like, 25 to mid 30s older) dwell there or the people who really just don't give a fuck about how Greg Bear can get away with copying and pasting his work throughout several different series. WHY COULDN'T NYLUND HAVE WROTE IT? Or Joseph Staten even?

[Kornman00]

Staten is too busy moving on with his and Bungie's life. Which I'm glad for. I don't wish to see Bungie wasting anymore time in a MS owned franchise.

[Hotrod]

Well some people actually like the book and the direction the story goes with it... Just saying...

[Kornman00]

Well some people actually like the book and the direction the story goes with it... Just saying...
blasphemy! ಠ_ಠ





ಠ_ಠ

[DarkHalo003]

Well some people actually like the book and the direction the story goes with it... Just saying...
Impossible....take care,Hotrod, for what you say is heresy!

[TeeKup]

Some people enjoy vague, convoluted garbage. Let them stay in their little world why we move on.

[Hotrod]

Impossible....take care,Hotrod, for what you say is heresy!
Well I haven't read the book or really know anything about how the story went, so I can't be THAT much of a heretic...right?

[TeeKup]

Precursors are arthropod-esque beings who's head (all together) looks like a sea-scorpion, who created the flood in revenge to use against the forerunners, because the forerunners rebelled against them thousands and thousands of years ago; after the precursors created them.

I'm sorry that is complete crap. While the arthropod archetype is understandable (insects tend to evolve at a quicker rate IIRC) it is too "generic sci fi" for me. I don't enjoy the idea of the galaxy's supreme race being so bland and predictable (almost every sci fi genre has a insect race). I more or less imagined the precursors being somewhat like the aliens from The Knowing:

http://prattleonboyo.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/knowing-aliens.png?w=360&h=214

Extremely evolved translucent beings who create and work for the benefit of the galaxy, and don't go on an entire revenge trip that will kill EVERYTHING in it.

I expected (most of us did I want to think) after all these years, one of THE BIGGEST mysteries about this series wouldn't be so bland and predictable and uninteresting as a revenge episode.

In my opinion yes the book is that bad.

[DarkHalo003]

Greg Bear defines generic sci-fi, if not, is carrying the forsaken torch.

[Arteen]

Precursors are arthropod-esque beings who's head (all together) looks like a sea-scorpion, who created the flood in revenge to use against the forerunners, because the forerunners rebelled against them thousands and thousands of years ago; after the precursors created them.

I'm sorry that is complete crap. While the arthropod archetype is understandable (insects tend to evolve at a quicker rate IIRC) it is too "generic sci fi" for me. I don't enjoy the idea of the galaxy's supreme race being so bland and predictable (almost every sci fi genre has a insect race). I more or less imagined the precursors being somewhat like the aliens from The Knowing:

http://prattleonboyo.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/knowing-aliens.png?w=360&h=214

Extremely evolved translucent beings who create and work for the benefit of the galaxy, and don't go on an entire revenge trip that will kill EVERYTHING in it.

I expected (most of us did I want to think) after all these years, one of THE BIGGEST mysteries about this series wouldn't be so bland and predictable and uninteresting as a revenge episode.

In my opinion yes the book is that bad.
lalala I'm not listening

[TeeKup]

Do forgive me arteen. Purge it, purge from the depths of your mind!

[Hotrod]

Giant bugs, eh? To be honest, I kind of like the sound of that.

[DarkHalo003]

Giant bugs, eh? To be honest, I kind of like the sound of that.
Here you go then:

2454

[t3h m00kz]

Hot.

[Hotrod]

I'd tap that.

[=sw=warlord]

Greg bear has just fucked up the franchise even more with Primordium.
You know those new fins they've added to the Ring in anniversary well..


Eagle-eye followers of "Halo" have begun grumbling over the addition of metallic fins lining the bottom of the ring that surrounds the planet in the game. Execs from 343 Industries initially said the fins were present in the first game but not visible due to the low graphic resolution. In fact, the fins are an important element of the plot in the Greg Bear novel "Halo: Primordium," which is set to come out in January, O'Connor said. Without them, the game would be inconsistent with the book.
Click here (http://edition.cnn.com/2011/11/14/tech/gaming-gadgets/halo-anniversary/index.html?hpt=hp_c1)
:suicide:

[Tnnaas]

Execs from 343 Industries initially said the fins were present in the first game but not visible due to the low graphic resolution.I'm unreasonably upset by this.


In fact, the fins are an important element of the plot in the Greg Bear novel "Halo: Primordium," which is set to come out in January, O'Connor said. Without them, the game would be inconsistent with the book.Please just end me now.

[=sw=warlord]

So, since 343I got given free reign what have we had so far?

Flood being a parasitic powder for pets.
12 Halo rings.
Prophets and human having an alliance.
Humans going to war with Forerunners.
Humans having cure for Flood parasite.
Halo's now have wings/fins
Humans are still at war trying to cause extinction of the Elites.
Flood being the super mythical precursor or at least having some connection to said precursor race..

Have I missed anything?

[DarkHalo003]

Basically, they're just sucking the dicks of non-Halo fans. That's really all it is if you look at the whole situation.

[Kornman00]

Yeah, they got these writers to try and attract the readers of their non-Halo books. Be careful, HBO seems to be get hard-on for these books as well. RIP HBOers :'(

[Tnnaas]

So, since 343I got given free reign what have we had so far?

Flood being a parasitic powder for pets.
12 Halo rings.
Prophets and human having an alliance.
Humans going to war with Forerunners.
Humans having cure for Flood parasite.
Halo's now have wings/fins
Humans are still at war trying to cause extinction of the Elites.
Flood being the super mythical precursor or at least having some connection to said precursor race..

Have I missed anything?The walking grossness known as Frank O'Connor is franchise director instead of someone even remotely competent.

[Arteen]

Also the Forerunners killed all of the Precursors. That's pretty dumb too. Actually, Precursors are dumb and unnecessary anyway.

[DarkHalo003]

Also the Forerunners killed all of the Precursors. That's pretty dumb too. Actually, Precursors are dumb and unnecessary anyway.
Could have been cool.

[TeeKup]

Ew why are we still talking about Cryptum.

[TVTyrant]

Ew why are we still talking about Cryptum.
This.

[Krakhed]

I found it quite enjoyable actually, and to all of those refusing to read it based on how some have summarized it...

Well vague descriptions of the plot from people who didn't like tend to leave out the important parts.

I find it strange that some believe that the subtlety that the Flood are capable of in establishing a foothold somehow detracts from them. It just turns out that they're a more adaptable Parasite then we knew, and capable of more then one strategy. They actually got other species to grant them a foothold across a multitude of worlds without raising suspicion.

Yet somehow some see their ability to do so makes them less frightening?

As for other plot points that have been mentioned as somehow breaking established canon...

Well the canon was somewhat iffy on those matters and not clear at all. Some things were somewhat suggested but not really clarified.

Some have asked how Humans could be the reclaimers of the Mantle if they were in fact the Forerunners ancient enemies and not their creations or descendants.

Those same people are likely

[Krakhed]

I would suggest people give it a read actually. It seems some people have been missing important points that will likely be explored further.

So what if the Flood are capable of subtlety? All that does is make them more of a threat, not less. They did establish a solid foothold across multiple star systems without arousing suspicion after all, and the manner in which it did so shows the adaptability and complexity it is capable of, given how specific and intricate its strategy was.

And as to why the Forerunner would make their Human enemies their heirs to the Mantle, and some had argued correctly that one couldn't reclaim what one never had...

Well some of the Forerunner liked them, and those that liked them were heavily involved with the Ark and the Halos. That and the Humans had originally believed that they were the true inheritors of the Mantle in the first place, an idea that if true means that the Forerunner effectively stole that role from them. And since the Forerunner eventually messed everything up it's quite likely they rethought everything and came to realize that the Humans might've actually been right and so set everything up so that the Humans could reclaim the Mantle, with the word "reclaim" still being fully appropriate as they were bearers of their own concept of the "Mantle" at one point. And seeing as how Humans actually had the biological engineering skill to defeat the Flood I would say that they had more going for being the true bearers of the Mantle then the Forerunner.

Essentially nothing truly breaks anything established previously, it merely subverts our expectations. Since the next point is from a Human perspective I expect some more information on that. And hopefully that Human perspective will result in us getting a real description of Forerunner appearance.

Anyhow rather then denying the events as existing in-universe I suggest you look past your biases and actually examine the details for things you might've missed that would help make sense of everything.

[Krakhed]

I would suggest people give it a read actually. It seems some people have been missing important points that will likely be explored further.

So what if the Flood are capable of subtlety? All that does is make them more of a threat, not less. They did establish a solid foothold across multiple star systems without arousing suspicion after all, and the manner in which it did so shows the adaptability and complexity it is capable of, given how specific and intricate its strategy was.

And as to why the Forerunner would make their Human enemies their heirs to the Mantle, and some had argued correctly that one couldn't reclaim what one never had...

Well some of the Forerunner liked them, and those that liked them were heavily involved with the Ark and the Halos. That and the Humans had originally believed that they were the true inheritors of the Mantle in the first place, an idea that if true means that the Forerunner effectively stole that role from them. And since the Forerunner eventually messed everything up it's quite likely they rethought everything and came to realize that the Humans might've actually been right and so set everything up so that the Humans could reclaim the Mantle, with the word "reclaim" still being fully appropriate as they were bearers of their own concept of the "Mantle" at one point. And seeing as how Humans actually had the biological engineering skill to defeat the Flood I would say that they had more going for being the true bearers of the Mantle then the Forerunner.

Essentially nothing truly breaks anything established previously, it merely subverts our expectations. Since the next point is from a Human perspective I expect some more information on that. And hopefully that Human perspective will result in us getting a real description of Forerunner appearance.

Anyhow rather then denying the events as existing in-universe I suggest you look past your biases and actually examine the details for things you might've missed that would help make sense of everything.

[TeeKup]

Sorry. Book is still a mess.

The biggest issues I have with the book is the presentation of the last Precursor and the behavior of the Forerunners. While the idea you have is interesting and all, it won't make up for a sour first impression. In the end, this story is going to be centered around a "revenge-trip" that's present in every single fucking Sci-fi out there. I don't see the problem with Greg Bear giving us the innocent concept of 2 hyper advanced civilizations who worked to created and preserve the miracle of life only to be threatened by some extra-galactic horror.

It's a choice of two predictable concepts. I prefer the naive and happy origin to the "oh look, someone got pissed and is now threatening the entire galaxy, oh joy."

This book is well written, I will give Bear that. That does not however, excuse him for everything else. Forerunner tech is all around vaguely descriped, their behavior is TOO human for my taste. Corrupt and arrogant, they don't come off as the benevolent force we've always been hinted at and even told (see Halo Encyclopedia.) Also how do the forerunners De-evolve humanity? The bestiarium stated that Tier-0 species (precursors) could control evolution, then again maybe the bestiarium isn't the best source.

None the less. The book is dry and lack luster, some of the smaller details I found interesting such as the "Domain" and the body suits they wore....oh and the battle stations, the 50km long ships I found interesting enough. One last thing though, I didn't like Mendicant Bias. Yes he was the most advanced and powerful AI at that time, but he wasn't an ethereal god. I get that he had the ability to manipulate and enter all technological terminal around him (their armor and the council planet itself), but that doesn't change the fact he didn't seem like an AI, he seemed like a god. That was probably Bears intention though, either way I don't like it.

Oh and the concept of the flood starting out as some kind of powder is just stupid through and through.

EDIT: I forgot to specify why I didn't like the precursor. Tier-0 species I would expect to be completely near godlike status, as such I never saw them as arthropod scorpion headed creatures. I more or less saw them like this:
http://prattleonboyo.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/knowing-aliens.png?w=360&h=214

Ethereal and all knowing would work for them. The biggest complaint I did say, the whole revenge against the forerunner for the Precursor-Forerunner war. I would expect a race of hyper-beings to be above such petty and horrible motivations as to set in motion the extinction and destruction of an entire galaxy.

[Sanctus]

Not to mention the fact that, in Halo 3, humans weren't known by the Forerunner until their DISCOVERY during the construction of the Halo array

[Arteen]

Oh and the concept of the flood starting out as some kind of powder is just stupid through and through.
Moral of the Forerunner trilogy

http://www.natureofanimals.com/yorkiepuppy.jpg
This is a puppy

http://www.halopedian.com/images/6/65/Flood3.jpg
This is a flood infection form

DO NOT MIX

[Warsaw]

Looking at that picture reminds me that infection forms from Combat Evolved were so much cooler looking...

[Kornman00]

It's like Gremlins, don't feed after midnight and don't get them wet!

I wonder if 343i gave Greg free reign in deciding his book, and thus the Forerunner/Precursor lore (why the hell would they be called Precursors if they even existed during the Forerunner *sigh*). That would mean someone totally alien to the game's universe decided all of this bullshit shitty shit crap poop turd junk. At least we'll have one single person to blame for the next 10 years or earlier when the franchise just becomes flat like soda.

[=sw=warlord]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxvXmtH-JQ4

[DarkHalo003]

I translated it as:

yunSRfnsVck

Also, Raab sounds like he has no idea what he's talking about. Bear has his publicity mask on. Peter has his "kissass" mode on. Karen Traviss and Kevin Grace at the end are the only two that seem sort of real about what they're about. Frankie, why did you have to bring some of these cliches into Halo? Bring back Dietz and Nylund!

Also, TeeKup is right. Completely. Bear basically compiled everything he did before and copy-pasta'd into the Halo Universe. Anyone feel like writing the actual canon? You know, the actual story that fans will actually find plausible and consistent?

[Warsaw]

Pick me, pick me! I can make a synopsis of my internal canon if you'd like.

[TVTyrant]

Wait.


This thread is still going?

[TeeKup]

I've had PM's over at FanFiction of fans enjoying my story moreso than Cryptum. My story isn't even THAT good. It's charming and I like doing it but by no means is it top notch as Cyptum is SUPPOSED to be.

[Tnnaas]

Mmmega bump.

I'm halfway through Primordium and I'm trying to not have a biased view against it.
I don't like it.

I'll tell you more when I'm finished with the book.
What bugs me more than the storyline is the fact that it's in first person.
I liked it when we knew more about the story than the protagonist(s).

[Kornman00]

I liked it more when we were actually buying good Halo books.

[TeeKup]

Why, why would you waste your money on another cluster fuck of bad writing/story development?

[Sever]

When Halo has a bad book, they make another and adjust canon to fit the books, when Mass Effect has a bad book, they redo the book. Which sci-fi universe is better?

[Warsaw]

Halo.

Mass Effect tries too hard and ends up being a laughing stock to anybody who has a modicum of knowledge on what they are trying to describe in Mass Effect. In Halo, it's unashamedly fake and gives no fucks.

[Bobblehob]

Halo.

Mass Effect tries too hard and ends up being a laughing stock to anybody who has a modicum of knowledge on what they are trying to describe in Mass Effect. In Halo, it's unashamedly fake and gives no fucks.

HA

[Tnnaas]

I liked it more when we were actually buying good Halo books.

Why, why would you waste your money on another cluster fuck of bad writing/story development?
>Implying that I'd buy any of the Forerunner Saga books.

No, I borrowed it from a friend.


In Halo, it's unashamedly fake and gives no fucks.
I liked it when Halo: Evolutions butchered a couple of pre-established events. /sarcasm

[Warsaw]

Halo was better when it at least feigned believability in the original three novels, but it has always been somewhat whimsical. It's kind of like the original Battlestar Galactica: great until the unicorns.

[Tnnaas]

I actually liked everything up to Contact Harvest. First Strike said that we haven't encountered Brutes yet, and the end of Halo 3 seemed to seal up the fact that Elites started the war. Like you said though, Warsaw, Halo gives no fucks.

The Cole Protocol didn't seem as well written as it should have been. Buckell was just an obscure writer (they way it should be for Cryptum and onwards), but he seemed to refer to several things as if through the eyes of a newly introduced Halo player (i.e., "sticky grenae", humans using terms like "unngoy and kig-yar", etc.).

I have yet to read Glasslands, but I'm going to reserve my judgment on that. It sounds like a good book, though.

[DarkHalo003]

Grasslands is nice. Great ending for the next book though.

[TeeKup]

Glasslands*

[Tnnaas]

Glasslands*
Not in Asia.
Never caught that.
*edits*

[dazman23]

Just finished reading it on my Ipad and felt just like the first book to me, was so bored while reading the first half of it as all they did was walk around a "hoop" lost!

[Tnnaas]

Finished it. I went to the Home Depot and bought a twelve foot piece of sheetrock to punch holes into. The only thing I like about the book was Greg Bear's consistancy in butchering everything. Can't wait to find the Librarian and other Forerunners in Halo 4.

[Warsaw]

I'm going to buy Halo 4 used.

[=sw=warlord]

I'm going to buy Halo 4 used.
Provided microsoft doesn't jump onto the bandwagon of pass keyes.

[Warsaw]

I'm not even going to bother with multiplayer, so that doesn't concern me.

[Pooky]

I'm not even going to bother with multiplayer, so that doesn't concern me.

^

[Tnnaas]

So I started reading Glasslands. I like it. There's action, there's plot, there's narrative, there's direction. Everything is moving, it makes sense, it's alive. Much better than the Forerunner Saga.

FAKE EDIT: I almost put this in the BF3 thread. Yikes!

[DarkHalo003]

So I started reading Glasslands. I like it. There's action, there's plot, there's narrative, there's direction. Everything is moving, it makes sense, it's alive. Much better than the Forerunner Saga.

FAKE EDIT: I almost put this in the BF3 thread. Yikes!
Glad to hear you agree! Nylund may not be writing for the series anymore (sadly), but after reading the novel I regained faith in the book-side of the franchise.

[Warsaw]

It's not that the books were bad, it's that they ruined the vision of the Forerunners and the lore behind it.

I may pick up Glasslands.

[DarkHalo003]

It's not that the books were bad, it's that they ruined the vision of the Forerunners and the lore behind it.

I may pick up Glasslands.
My worry was that the book would cause dissatisfaction after knowing Nylund would not partake in their conceptions. Glasslands fixed that though.

To be honest, I did skip a lot of the human segments (until about half-way into the book) just because the Spartan and Elite chapters were so intriguing.

[Tnnaas]

The third book in the Forerunner Saga is slated to be released early January, next year. Screw you, Greg Bear. :parrot: (http://www.thebest404pageever.com/swf/snap_your_shit.swf)

I'm going to pick up The Thursday War (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120505140457/halo/images/thumb/4/4c/The_Thursday_War.jpg/313px-The_Thursday_War.jpg) instead. The novels by Karen Traviss look so much more promising.

[DarkHalo003]

The third book in the Forerunner Saga is slated to be released early January, next year. Screw you, Greg Bear. :parrot: (http://www.thebest404pageever.com/swf/snap_your_shit.swf)

I'm going to pick up The Thursday War (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120505140457/halo/images/thumb/4/4c/The_Thursday_War.jpg/313px-The_Thursday_War.jpg) instead. The novels by Karen Traviss look so much more promising.
The Thursday War looks sooooo sick.

[dazman23]

I'll get both :P just because I'll be dieing to know just how that stupid Forerunner Saga ends.

[TeeKup]

Looking forward to The Thursday War. Travis did a great job on Glasslands.

[Kornman00]

Greg hurd u liek dodacts (http://www.gregbear.com/blog/display.cfm?id=6513)

[Tnnaas]

:smithicide:

[DarkHalo003]

:raise:

It's not the worst thing he and his "permission-to-fuck-with-canon" team have done. The Didact could simply be a rank or role of a Forerunner. Wasn't Didact from the Halo 3 Terminals banished at some point?

If there's really anything that makes me hate Greg Bear it's that:

Humans were a rival race for the Forerunners (like every other cliche SciFi BS).
The Flood was a powder the Galactic Humans put on pets.
The Forerunners were depicted as whiney bitches.
The Forerunners' internal conflicts are comparable to the Occupy Wall Street movements as depicted by Greg Bear.
Nothing is alien or ethereal enough in the Milky Way Galaxy according to this team of tryhard.


Things I can accept:

The San-Shyuum (The Prophets) existed at a comparable, though still weaker, level than Forerunners.
The PreCursor being Flood-like (WHAT A TWIST!).

Notice how there are those five most hated things and only two options I can consider decent. :ugh:

[TeeKup]

I thought Primordium proved the Primordial that he was actually a Gravemind, and not a true Precursor? IDK I didn't bother to read that book.

[TeeKup]

I FUCKING HATE THAT MAN.

[Tnnaas]

http://puu.sh/BFgw

[Hotrod]

I thought Primordium proved the Primordial that he was actually a Gravemind, and not a true Precursor? IDK I didn't bother to read that book.
From what I understood, it was saying that The Precursors and The Flood were synonymous, that the Flood were a part of the Precursors.

As for there being two Didacts, it's possible that the Master Builder never actually killed the first one, but I suppose we'll see...

[TeeKup]

Goddamnit, why Greg Bear why.

[TVTyrant]

Why do you people keep bumping this?

LET IT DIE

[Tnnaas]

Should we make a thread for Glasslands (and The Thursday War​) instead?

[TeeKup]

BECAUSE I STILL WANT TO LOVE THIS SERIES.

BUT I CAN'T WHEN ALL THIS NEW SHIT DOESN'T MAKE ANY FUCKING SENSE WITH THE PREVIOUS SHIT.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Operation_Upshot-Knothole_-_Badger_001.jpg/250px-Operation_Upshot-Knothole_-_Badger_001.jpg

[DarkHalo003]

Someone should retitle this the "Dedicated Greg Bear Hate Thread."

[Tnnaas]

Kiefer Sutherland, keep us safe!

[Kornman00]

BUT I CAN'T WHEN ALL THIS NEW SHIT DOESN'T MAKE ANY FUCKING SENSE WITH THE PREVIOUS SHIT.
Because the only thing 343 is bringing forward with them is the MC and Cortana. They said fuck everything else Bungie did :mech2:

Spartan IIIs? HA! We have Spartan IVs!

The Flood? HA! We'll make the player fight the Forerunner's other leftovers

[Warsaw]

Should have come up with a new name for humanity's next-gen super-soldier program tbqh.

[Kornman00]

Yeah, should have gone with Promethus, and then they could have had the Promethus-program fight the Promethians to see how is better :downs:

(spoiler: tank beats 'em all)

(joking aside, Promethus was a name Halsey was considering for the program IIRC)

[Tnnaas]

Yeah, it was like one of about a dozen names, like Minutemen and Juggernauts IIRC.

[Warsaw]

"Spartan IV" just sounds try-hard. Kind of like the titles "Halo 4" and "Final Fantasy XIII-2."

[Tnnaas]

"Halo 3: ODST 2"

Still waiting on that sequel though.

[DarkHalo003]

I would like those sequels though (ODST 2 and Halo Wars 2). But yes, the titles aren't original at all.

[Pooky]

Spartan IIs are the best Spartans. Kthxbai

[Warsaw]

What's ironic is that the Spartan-II's have been the best out of all of the iterations. The most disciplined, the most skilled, the strongest, the fastest, and the best-equipped.

[Bobblehob]

What's ironic is that the Spartan-II's have been the best out of all of the iterations. The most disciplined, the most skilled, the strongest, the fastest, and the best-equipped.

Because they were the first, the least restrained, and the only ones created by Halsey, unless they bring her back in Halo 4 which would render the entire scene FUBAR

[Warsaw]

They were actually the second (derp), Johnson was one of the first.

The reason Spartan-II's are the best is because they were trained since six years old. Like the Spartans of ancient Greece, combat is really all they have ever known. They were raised together, so their unit cohesiveness is second to none. Their augmentations were also the first truly ambitious ones, so the techniques were very brutish and the process was refined with a higher success rate in the later generations. I suspect they had to insert an HGH pellet in order to get the other augmentations to take in a short time-frame, hence seven-foot soldiers.

Their armour is also the most feature-complete. Spartan III's got the el-cheapo SPI that offered zip for protection against Covenant armaments. Spartan-IVs get a light-weight version of MJOLNIR, which implies less protection (it's in the Game Informer issue where they state this blurb).

Spartan-IIIs, IVs, and later will never be as good as Spartan-IIs unless they get the lifetime of combat treatment as well. They can't be as strong because they are less massive than Spartan-IIs (less tissue to work with in building muscle). They can't be as fast for much the same reason (greater leg length grants a higher top speed). They can only become "comparable" when provided with equivalent armour, but in a straight fight I'd put my money on the II over the III and IV.

[=sw=warlord]

The only way to get Spartans like the Spartan 2's would be either go through the trials again or in the future one or two of the Spartans settle down and have offspring which then decides to join the military.

[DarkHalo003]

The only way to get Spartans like the Spartan 2's would be either go through the trials again or in the future one or two of the Spartans settle down and have offspring which then decides to join the military.
I think by the rule in Biology that parents do not pass down acquired traits to their offspring would mean this wouldn't work. Then again, I'm sure someone here is better qualified in Biological sciences than me and could tell me I'm missing something.

[Tnnaas]

Augmentation modified their genetics directly. Being that the genes are passed down, it may work.

[Pooky]

What's ironic is that the Spartan-II's have been the best out of all of the iterations. The most disciplined, the most skilled, the strongest, the fastest, and the best-equipped.

Wow did I say V? Yeah, I meant II. I must have been thinking of the Mark V armor.

So yeah, Spartan IIs are the best spartans.

[=sw=warlord]

I think by the rule in Biology that parents do not pass down acquired traits to their offspring would mean this wouldn't work. Then again, I'm sure someone here is better qualified in Biological sciences than me and could tell me I'm missing something.
Genetically engineered.
Also your genes mutate as you grow older, it's partially what causes you to get old in the first place.
Genetic and DNA decay through the replication of our cells, infection and ambient radiation.
So yeah, had the Spartans bred with their dominant and modified genes the offspring would also inherit those modifications though they would not get all the modifications as not all of them were results genetic engineering.

[Warsaw]

The ceramic infusions onto the bone layer, for instance, are not genetic enhancements...and holy fuck that would have serious health complications with age.

[DarkHalo003]

The ceramic infusions onto the bone layer, for instance, are not genetic enhancements...and holy fuck that would have serious health complications with age.
That's exactly what I was thinking when I questioned if the genetics would actually work.

[Hotrod]

The ceramic infusions onto the bone layer, for instance, are not genetic enhancements...and holy fuck that would have serious health complications with age.
I don't think Spartans were really expected to live to an old age. What kind of health complications would that lead to though?

[nuttyyayap]

Degeneration, bone mass shrinks, ceramics don't, bones break, bad shit happens ect.

[DarkHalo003]

Keep in mind the Spartans were genetically altered not to have that degeneration, which next to the ceramics killed 3/5 of them.

[Kornman00]

Some more info on that upcoming Greg book (http://halo.xbox.com/blogs/Headlines/post/2012/07/11/Tor-Books-Reveals-Title-Cover-Art-And-Release-Date-of-Third-Halo-Novel-By-Greg-Bear.aspx) crap that no one in their right mind can actually bear to read

[=sw=warlord]

I burst out laughing when I saw this:
"Only the Ur-Didact and the Librarian—a husband and wife pushed into desperate conflict—hold the keys to salvation. Facing the consequences of a mythic tragedy, one of them must now commit the greatest atrocity of all time—to prevent an unmatched evil from dominating the entire universe."

[DarkHalo003]

:ugh:

[TeeKup]

The Ur-Didact? That title couldn't sound anymore stupid.

"I AM THE UR-DIDACT."

What was wrong with The Didact?

[Kornman00]

He derp'd.

The Halo Universe is engaging its internet meme'ing fanbase.

[Sanctus]

Please... make it stop. For the love of all things sane, someone make it stop.
watch?v= JBRO-0ccfeg

[Kornman00]

JBRO-0ccfeg
ftfy

[DarkHalo003]

That....pretty much sums up this whole scenario.

[Tnnaas]

So I heard that Asimov's estate authorized some low-profile author to write a sequel series to the I, Robot books. Either his estate is completely retarded or Mickey Zucker Reichert is a boss author.

If you are wondering how it ties in, 343i is the Halo estate and Greg Bear is Reichert. This is scenario one, where idiots let a bad writer write badly.

[Hotrod]

Ur is german (I believe) prefix that means "Original".

Either way, I'm definitely am looking forward to the books, since I loved the first too. And before anybody goes "ER MAI GAWRD, HOW CAN YOU LIKE THAT SHIT?!". It's called opinions, some people have different ones.

[Tnnaas]

And before anybody goes "ER MAI GAWRD, HOW CAN YOU LIKE THAT SHIT?!". It's called opinions, some people have different ones.
http://puu.sh/IUhN.jpg
http://puu.sh/IUii.jpg
http://puu.sh/IUiR.jpg

[Pooky]

It's called opinions, some people have different ones.

http://i.imgur.com/bWWoO.png

[DarkHalo003]

Yes, there are different opinions, but do the opinions have reason and are they intelligent for the better? Well, that seems to be the million dollar question here.

[Hotrod]

Well, when it comes to enjoying something or not, there's none that's "better".

[DarkHalo003]

Well, when it comes to enjoying something or not, there's none that's "better".
True, but when something is rehashed from a lot of other things, it's called a casserole. Casseroles are usually created as a cheaper way to produce the product (the dish). As good as they are at times, I'd rather have a steak dinner than a casserole any day.

[Hotrod]

True, but when something is rehashed from a lot of other things, it's called a casserole. Casseroles are usually created as a cheaper way to produce the product (the dish). As good as they are at times, I'd rather have a steak dinner than a casserole any day.
That's a fair point, and while I do agree with you, it doesn't stop me from enjoying it all the same.

[DarkHalo003]

That's a fair point, and while I do agree with you, it doesn't stop me from enjoying it all the same.
Fair enough.

[TeeKup]

Ur is german (I believe) prefix that means "Original".

Either way, I'm definitely am looking forward to the books, since I loved the first too. And before anybody goes "ER MAI GAWRD, HOW CAN YOU LIKE THAT SHIT?!". It's called opinions, some people have different ones.

Hotrod that doesn't make any goddamn sense. Didact is derived from Didactic which is latin. Why would a Latin title have a German prefix, that's just stupid.

[DarkHalo003]

Halo 4 Plotline:
What did the Master Chief say to Didact after the Didact insulted him? Ur-Didact.

:downsrim:

[Hotrod]

Hotrod that doesn't make any goddamn sense. Didact is derived from Didactic which is latin. Why would a Latin title have a German prefix, that's just stupid.
Don't ask me, it's just what I read in some interview about the book. Don't ask for the source, I don't have it nor am I looking for it.

Proof that I'm not an idiot: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ur-

In plus, Great Bear stated that there are two Didacts that are alive in Silencium, meaning that the original must not have been executed by Faber, the Master Builder, as was previously thought.

[TeeKup]

I'm not calling you an idiot, I'm calling Greg Bear an idiot for not understanding or following the paradigms and patterns of established languages. The vacuous manatee that he is.

[Hotrod]

Oh, oops, I thought you were saying that my explanation was stupid, not that Greg Bear's "Ur-Didact" was stupid, my bad.

But yeah, I do agree that it makes no sense and sounds a bit silly, why not just call them "Didact" and "Bornstellar-Didact"?

[DarkHalo003]

Or why not say something like "Ante-Didact" or even the "Antecedent" ("antedens" means pre-existing in Latin and we all should know that Antecedent means something preceding) which gives the previous Didact a more serious title? Something as simple as Ur-Didact just seems like it's one of those unintelligent attempts at creative design, like naming something Unobtainium simply because it's difficult to obtain. It also reaches the trope "Did Not Do the Research" which has already been explained in the thread.

More on "Did Not Do the Research" trope:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch

[Hotrod]

Not to mention that Ante-Didact sounds much better than Ur-Didact. The latter sounds like somebody screaming "LOLOL, UR TEH DIDACT!!1!!1!one!11!!"

[Tnnaas]

Screw you, Greg Bear. :parrot: (http://www.thebest404pageever.com/swf/snap_your_shit.swf)
.

[dazman23]

So anyone got Silentium yet? was thinking the other day when does the third book comes out, checked today and was shocked it was already out lol I'm just waiting for the Kindle version.

[DarkHalo003]

I have heard it's a lot better than the first two.

[Kornman00]

I have heard it's a lot better than the first two.
What radio station did you hear that on? 343 XM :mech2: ?

[TeeKup]

Its not hard to be better than garbage.

[Tnnaas]

I dunno, most garbage has landfills going for it. Might be a tough sell.

[DarkHalo003]

Its not hard to be better than garbage.
I heard it from multiple online reviews who had a look at it ahead of time. But basically this.

[Masterz1337]

I bought it earlier. Having only read the wiki entries and the first few chapters of cryptum, I'm enjoying it. If you catch up on halo wikia and watch the h4 terminals (which are awesome) you'll probably like this book. The terminals made me fall in love with both Didact and Librarian. The Didact is an awesome fallen hero, and the librarian is interesting as she is forced to betray her husband in order to protect what she and he once believed in. I'm interested in seeing how this plays out in the book.

[TeeKup]

I actually really enjoyed the H4 terminals. I thought some of the Forerunner gadgets and things were dinky and silly but over all they were good.

[Tnnaas]

Ancient humans were pretty boss in those.