Hacker Claims to Have the PS3's "Root Key" [Archive]

Kornman00

January 12th, 2011, 09:44 AM

Article (http://www.1up.com/news/hacker-claims-ps3-root-key).
Hacker's website (http://geohot.com/).

George "GeoHot" Hotz, the 21-year-old hacker best known for being part of the a team that unlocked the iPhone, now claims to have uncovered the "root key" to the PlayStation 3. And he posted it online (http://geohot.com/).

The root key is essentially the fail-safe in the PS3 that authorizes any program attempting to run on it as either legitimate or illegitimate -- so in other words, it's what stops someone from being able to play pirated games on the console, but also from installing Linux on it (after the OtherOS option was removed with firmware 3.21) and running any Homebrew programs as well. With the root key now available, though, the implication is that other hackers and modders can now bypass it entirely, and the sky's the limit.

etc etc
Wanna know a secret :ohdear:?

I see keys :tinfoil:

erk: C0 CE FE 84 C2 27 F7 5B D0 7A 7E B8 46 50 9F 93 B2 38 E7 70 DA CB 9F F4 A3 88 F8 12 48 2B E2 1B
riv: 47 EE 74 54 E4 77 4C C9 B8 96 0C 7B 59 F4 C1 4D
pub: C2 D4 AA F3 19 35 50 19 AF 99 D4 4E 2B 58 CA 29 25 2C 89 12 3D 11 D6 21 8F 40 B1 38 CA B2 9B 71 01 F3 AE B7 2A 97 50 19
R: 80 6E 07 8F A1 52 97 90 CE 1A AE 02 BA DD 6F AA A6 AF 74 17
n: E1 3A 7E BC 3A CC EB 1C B5 6C C8 60 FC AB DB 6A 04 8C 55 E1
K: BA 90 55 91 68 61 B9 77 ED CB ED 92 00 50 92 F6 6C 7A 3D 8D
Da: C5 B2 BF A1 A4 13 DD 16 F2 6D 31 C0 F2 ED 47 20 DC FB 06 70

Pyong Kawaguchi

January 12th, 2011, 10:11 AM

A little bit old, but its true.

Keep in mind, nows the best time to stay off of ground war in MW2 ps3.

Also, now with these tools you can launch games directly from the xmb, without any funky managers!

It works on every firmware, and is not patchable.

Key list:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AmWh9I5NKgNddE5NcnlxdHk3Nm9IYVR3djItTE9FT 3c&hl=en_GB&output=html

Patssj6

January 12th, 2011, 11:18 AM

Seen a few speeches on YouTube about this stuff some days ago.

Seems Sony got him as well :P

Dwood

January 12th, 2011, 01:30 PM

Just barely heard about it yesterday. It's awesome. Good for them.

Syuusuke

January 12th, 2011, 02:42 PM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/21/George_Hotz.jpg/539px-George_Hotz.jpg

On Tuesday, consumer electronics giant Sony proceeded to file a restraining order against jailbreaker extraordinaire George Hotz - better known in our community as "Geohot," the famous iPhone hacker. Geohot and his team have been cited by Sony for bypassing "effective technological protective measures" in PlayStation 3 firmware version 3.55. Just days ago, Geohot released a controversial jailbreak which enables PlayStation 3 hackers to run custom packages on the console. Geohot is endeavoring to restore the "Other OS" option pulled from the hugely popular gaming system in 2010.

According to Sony, the restraining order is necessary to stop Geohot from offering the jailbreak. The PS3 maker alleges Geohot and his cohorts are blatantly violating the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and the Computer Fraud Abuse Act. Based on what's known of the court filing, Sony takes direct aim at Geohot claiming the jailbreaker has "trafficked in circumvention technology, products, services, methods, codes, software tools, [and] devices."

The main reason Sony is upset? The company doesn't want illegal (aka pirated) games played on its system. As with all related jailbreak concerns, this case boils down to the almighty dollar. And Sony says Geohot's antics will continue to cost the company - and ultimately consumers - a pretty penny. Although "Save Geohot" t-shirts are not yet available, someone may want to fire up the printing press because Sony is seriously gunning for Geohot's head like no one has before.

CNET (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20028248-17.html)
,.
(http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20028248-17.html)

Cortexian

January 12th, 2011, 03:41 PM

Pyong Kawaguchi

January 12th, 2011, 04:45 PM

Old news, installed the PUP update that adds the Install Package Files option to thte XMB a week ago when it came out.

Waiting for some backwards compatibility fixes so I can play Katamari Damasi (only Playstation game worth playing).

Is that a ps1 game or a ps2 game?

If its a ps2 game, you're probably out of luck for a while, if its a ps1 game, wait for ps3sx to either: not use syscalls, or for the syscalls to be enabled.

Warsaw

January 12th, 2011, 05:15 PM

You should see the list of arguments Sony is making for its case. Most of them are utterly ridiculous.

Pyong Kawaguchi

January 12th, 2011, 05:20 PM

Geohot specifically went out of his way to disable lv2 modifications iirc, to prevent piracy.
Also, mw2 hax all over!

Warsaw

January 12th, 2011, 07:01 PM

Cortexian

January 12th, 2011, 07:14 PM

Is that a ps1 game or a ps2 game?

If its a ps2 game, you're probably out of luck for a while, if its a ps1 game, wait for ps3sx to either: not use syscalls, or for the syscalls to be enabled.
It's a PS2 game.

Pooky

January 12th, 2011, 07:41 PM

I hope Geohot wins. Then, publishers/devs can actually support their games after launch to maintain hacking/cheating. Looking at you, Activision. Even if Bungie's system sometimes grates, at least they try.

I wouldn't mind Bungie's systems if they didn't have one that boots you for teamkilling once with the objective against a teammate that's shooting you!

Warsaw

January 12th, 2011, 07:43 PM

Better than CoD where hacking is rampant.

Pooky

January 12th, 2011, 07:45 PM

Except that in CoD, if someone is hacking you can just leave the game with no penalty. If you try to do that in Halo 3, you lose XP. If you try to do that in Reach, you may get a quitter ban (ooooh), especially if you've lagged out of several games recently, or accidentally betrayed your teammates and been booted recently.

Bodzilla

January 12th, 2011, 07:57 PM

hey sony,

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

sincerely
~zilla

n00b1n8R

January 12th, 2011, 08:04 PM

Wow, it may actually be worth owning a Sony product now :aaaaa:

Warsaw

January 12th, 2011, 08:13 PM

hey sony,

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

sincerely
~zilla

I ditto this comment.

Cortexian

January 12th, 2011, 09:26 PM

I like how Sony is vowing to fix this with a software patch. You know, because the software patch can fix the giant gaping hole left by this. From what I've read it wouldn't ever permanently fix the issue anyway because the keys are linked to the hardware instead of the software?

Who foresees a new Playstation 3 remodel in the near future? Like the new Xbox 360 consoles. lol.

Spartan094

January 12th, 2011, 10:57 PM

Lol PS3

ujelly Sony?

Warsaw

January 12th, 2011, 11:43 PM

We need an emote for that...

Sony is attrocious at making hardware. I've never owned anything by them that has been of quality design. CD players all broke within 3 months. Headphones busted within a year. TV pictures all looked shitty compared to Samsung, LG, and Vizio. Vaio desktop computer broke its software every few months. Laptops feel chintzy and have underwhelming hardware for their price. Sony phones are some of the shoddiest I've ever used, lacking in EVERY department. PS3 has a hardware design flaw allowing exploits like this. Them being part of the recording/publishing industry, they would have done well to double check this shit before they released the console.

Seriously, only thing Sony ever did somewhat right was the PSP. They failed to market it properly, though. They also forgot to add a second analogue stick. Was it that hard? There was certainly enough room.

Bodzilla

January 13th, 2011, 12:38 AM

i used to have a sony 21inch trinitron. lasted about 5 years and i only got rid of it because i wanted a wide screen LCD

i also have a sony sound system that i got on my 16th birthday which for the cost of it always had exceptional sound quality, it looked sexy and it performed well.
i'm nearly 22 years old and it hasnt even given me a hint that it's dying.

so :v:

Dwood

January 13th, 2011, 12:41 AM

All my sony products lasted about 6~ years. Watch out bod, those speakers will die on you soon!

k4is3rxkh40s

January 13th, 2011, 02:12 AM

Seriously, only thing Sony ever did somewhat right was the PSP.

The only problem I see in that statement is that the PSP has been hacked for years now, while only in recent months has the PS3 been cracked. Although yes, it is quite the gaping hole but it still took a good number of years to find/release it.

Warsaw

January 13th, 2011, 03:37 AM

I don't consider it being hacked a problem. Sony also isn't concerned with it either, apparently. It's not the hacking that I'm calling a problem with Sony, it's Sony QQing over hacked PS3s that is a problem because if they are this adamant about it not being hacked, they should have spent that extra cash on making doubly sure that there were no un-patchable exploits for jail-breaking. Look at the Xbox 360. That has to be the most secure console of the three, because i NEVER hear about jailbreaking 360s. Microsoft made damn sure their system was closed.

At any rate, PS3s have been jail-broken for a couple years now, possibly even more. That was through a USB issue, which Sony can't fix with a firmware update. Now hackers have found the proverbial God Code for the PS3, and they also can't fix that via firmware. Stupid design decisions by Sony. Who'd have thought it?

Dwood

January 13th, 2011, 03:40 AM

The only problem I see in that statement is that the PSP has been hacked for years now, while only in recent months has the PS3 been cracked. Although yes, it is quite the gaping hole but it still took a good number of years to find/release it.

Most if not all the psp hacks can be patched, however.

Kornman00

January 13th, 2011, 05:48 AM

A couple people have said "old news" (10 days is not really that old kthx), yet this news was was never posted here. If you want to contribute, next time try posting something like this when it's "new" news instead of trying to prove to whoever your sense of immersion in world news :jerkoff:

Shock120

January 13th, 2011, 08:18 AM

I hope they find the one, on the Xbox 360, and then this generation of consoles will be finished. ;)
/evil hope

dark navi

January 13th, 2011, 09:00 AM

I hope they find the one, on the Xbox 360, and then this generation of consoles will be finished. ;)
/evil hope

I'm still waiting for my N64 to be of use... anyone want to help me jailbreak it?

Kornman00

January 13th, 2011, 10:50 AM

Unless MS somehow implemented the RSA (vs ECDSA which the PS3 uses) "improperly", then don't count on this happening.

That is, don't count on this same event happening for the 360.

Amit

January 13th, 2011, 06:04 PM

Warsaw

January 13th, 2011, 07:58 PM

Tubes are win. I've only ever had one die on me, and it gave 24 years of service. So old it had knobs and no remote and an RGB strip to show that it was colour-capable.

jcap

January 14th, 2011, 12:24 PM

My parents had a trinitron. It died two years ago so we replaced it with an LG 40" LCD. That trinitron gave us 22 years of service. What a TV.
Same here, 1988-2008.

Limited

January 14th, 2011, 05:19 PM

Ha in your face Sony.

Personally I support this guy, I watched the G4 interview and I was expecting a really cocky guy...complete opposite a really nice well mannered dude. He makes great points about the legality of it, why are mobile phones classified as something when a console isn't?

Also the fact Sony are demanding all copies of the key are deleted from the internet...hahahaha

jcap

January 14th, 2011, 05:50 PM

Also the fact Sony are demanding all copies of the key are deleted from the internet...hahahaha
That's ironic being that Sony themselves just released the key into the public domain (http://jcap.h2vista.net/files/personal/46819521-04.pdf) (on Page 247)!

Limited

January 14th, 2011, 06:03 PM

Ha they sent him $1 through Paypal.

Yeah it is ironic, those are court papers though. Isn't there laws that protect news companies from releasing information that was gained illegally, they are still allowed to publish it. Freedom of press or something?

"Geohot may have claimed he doesn't condone software piracy, but pirates are singing his name in honor right now."

Yea..how can Geohot control what people say about him? That doesnt put any more blame on him at all.

Pooky

January 15th, 2011, 02:43 PM

Personally I'm fully in support of this guy. I've been saying for a while that the only thing that's going to stop video game piracy is a change in the market itself, which has remained largely the same since its beginning.

Sony are a bunch of dinosaurs, futilely trying to keep the standard from changing. They're going to lose eventually.

jcap

January 15th, 2011, 03:36 PM

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/01/playstation-lawsuit-limbo/

Sony's motion to impound his computers denied.

Sony's lawyers are asserting that he is in violation of the PlayStation Network's terms of agreement, despite him never even signing up for the service.

In other news, the judge assigned to the case is debating whether Sony is full of shit and wasting her time.

Sony is also pushing for this to go to trial in California because YouTube is based there, and that's where he uploaded his video, despite him doing this stuff from his house in NJ.

Sony also tried an attempt at entrapment. They are claiming that he accepted donations. Hotz made it clear that he was not accepting donations when he released the key. Sony's scumbags decided to try sending money to his email address on PayPal, which of course automatically went because the email address is tied to his PayPal account.

So far, Sony's only ground for suing Hotz is that the only reason the root key was leaked is for piracy. They don't have any proof to back it up, other than some pirates being thankful for it. I hope this gets dismissed with prejudice and Hotz sues Sony for this frivolous lawsuit. Their only "proof" in this case is 200 pages of forum posts talking about the potential of piracy.

Cortexian

January 15th, 2011, 05:38 PM

Greatest possible outcome would be a counter-sue against Sony for all of this bullshit, which if he wins will in-turn fund more awesome hacking :)

Amit

January 15th, 2011, 05:58 PM

Greatest possible outcome would be a counter-sue against Sony for all of this bullshit, which if he wins will in-turn fund more awesome hacking :)

Don't get crazy. Best case scenario is he doesn't get charged and gets off scott free.

Cortexian

January 16th, 2011, 12:23 AM

Sony won't get him for anything, even the justice system sees Sony as the fools here.

=sw=warlord

January 16th, 2011, 05:50 AM

Greatest possible outcome would be a counter-sue against Sony for all of this bullshit, which if he wins will in-turn fund more awesome hacking :)

I wouldn't be surprised if that in it self would set a new precedent for any new cases in the future regarding console modders being chased by console manufacturers.
What kind of a company would try to sue someone if they knew there was a good chance of a counter sue?

jcap

January 17th, 2011, 04:29 PM

Sony's lawyers are being fucking asshole douchebags now.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/101823/20110117/update-sony-court-docs-show-ps3-hacker-was-in-california.htm

After the judge said Hotz is most likely outside of her jurisdiction, Sony is grasping at straws trying to come up with some way to prosecute him. The best they have come up with is some Twitter posts from 2009 when he visited California. Despite it being way outside of the range of when and where he did his actual hack, Sony somehow claims that is sufficient for the case to continue.

http://sae.tweek.us/static/images/emoticons/emot-psyboom.gif

Kornman00

January 17th, 2011, 06:00 PM

This is Sony:
sql-aPwX8ac

(extra lolz for Arnie being the gov'na of Cali)

Patssj6

January 17th, 2011, 06:17 PM

actually this fits better

8R-02fNL_Us

Pyong Kawaguchi

January 17th, 2011, 08:16 PM

And now, waninkoko's cfw bricks tons of ps3's!

But not mine :D

jcap

January 18th, 2011, 11:47 PM

Sony is trying to "prove" Hotz signed up for a PSN account. What the fuck Sony, it doesn't even matter shit because the only thing they can legally even enforce is disallowing him on the network with modified hardware.

http://exophase.com/20885/sony-tries-to-prove-geohot-has-a-psn-account/

Damn, Apple actually had somewhat of a case with their iPhone lawsuit, but Sony...this is embarrassing.

Here are the specific sections of the PSN TOS:

You may not use, make, or distribute unauthorized software or hardware, including Non-Licensed Peripherals, in conjunction with Sony Online Services, or take or use any data from Sony Online Services to design, develop or update unauthorized software or hardware, including cheat code software or devices that circumvent any security features or limitations included on any software or devices.
You may not bypass, disable, or circumvent any encryption, security, digital rights management or authentication mechanism in connection with Sony Online Services or any of the content or service offered through Sony Online Services.http://us.playstation.com/support/termsofuse/

Oh, and it's not just SCE that has douchebag lawyers and executives: http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-20028826-266.html

In a lawsuit filed in U.S. district court in Virginia on Friday (http://stadium.weblogsinc.com/engadget/files/sevsclear.pdf), Sony Ericsson said that Clearwire's green and white swirl logo is confusingly similar to its own green and white swirl logo.
http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2011/01/18/sony-ericsson-logo_270x203.jpg
http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2011/01/18/Clearwire-logo_with_clear.jpg

The only logo that even comes close is Ubisoft's:
http://www.videogamesoffers.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Ubisoft.jpg

Dwood

January 19th, 2011, 12:31 AM

Stop suing him and make a new game system already. Beat the others to the punch.

Syuusuke

January 19th, 2011, 12:50 AM

My GOD those two logos are so UNconfusingly distinct. One has a fucking gray shell, the other has a green shell. The other one has a fucking Sphere inside, the other one, IS a sphere itself. FIRST GRADE COMPARISON COME ON.

Anyway, I'm just wondering what GeoHot is doing, any news on him?

ejburke

January 19th, 2011, 01:13 AM

That new console will have no chance of having backward compatibility with PS3 discs. In fact, no future Sony platform will ever be able to run PS3 discs. All PS3 software published from this day forward is essentially a lame duck. If I weren't reveling in Sony's incompetence and stupidity, I would be bummed that my PS3 and meager collection of games seem like really shitty investments right about now.

jcap

January 19th, 2011, 01:34 AM

Actually, there is a chance for backwards compatibility, as long as Sony does it through emulation (like the 360).

Sony can release updates for popular PS3 games that are signed with their new key to run on the new console. As long as the BD drive firmware passes the disc as a legitimate disc, the console should see the media as a game disc and the game files on it. It wouldn't be able to run the executable on the disc because it's an outdated version and the signature would be old. But maybe through a gameid in the old executable, it might be able to match and load the updated executable, which would continue loading the rest of the game from the disc. That's how I would do it.

Kornman00

January 19th, 2011, 12:38 PM

I'm wondering when Bungie will take down their PS3 job positions :mech2:

ejburke

January 19th, 2011, 01:38 PM

Actually, there is a chance for backwards compatibility, as long as Sony does it through emulation (like the 360).

Sony can release updates for popular PS3 games that are signed to run on the new console. As long as the BD drive firmware passes the disc as a legitimate disc, the console should see the media as a game disc and the game files on it. It wouldn't be able to run the executable on the disc, because it's an outdated version and the signature would be old. But maybe through a gameid in the old executable, it might be able to match and load the updated executable, which would continue loading the rest of the game from the disc. That's how I would do it.I need to read up on cryptography. I guess they could look at the checksum, but that doesn't guarantee anything. All it would take is one fooled checksum and their next console could be jailbroken.

But in order to patch a new signature on your games, you would need to install them to the hard drive -- at least the executable portion. And then they would need a custom patcher for each and every game. It might just be easier to reissue new executables for everything and I use the term "easier" very loosely.

I guess it is possible. Sony claims they can fix it, but they sort of have to say that. And with the ridiculous tactics they're trying to employ to put this hacker guy through the wringer, you have to think that this hurts worse than they are letting on.

I really don't know what Sony was thinking. Were they going to implement the same improper signature scheme in their next console, too? If so, they could have jailbroken that, too. If not, then they would potentially have to abandon future support for the PS3 library anyway.

sleepy1212

January 19th, 2011, 01:55 PM

so how long before some asshole on another continent bricks my console over the net for shits and giggles?

jcap

January 19th, 2011, 02:16 PM

I need to read up on cryptography. I guess they could look at the checksum, but that doesn't guarantee anything. All it would take is one fooled checksum and their next console could be jailbroken.

But in order to patch a new signature on your games, you would need to install them to the hard drive -- at least the executable portion. And then they would need a custom patcher for each and every game. It might just be easier to reissue new executables for everything and I use the term "easier" very loosely.
I'd check for a gameid in the executable, which (if it is like Xbox games) is a unique ID assigned to every title (like Reach is 4D53085B), which would then check against a database of known IDs with updates. If it matches, the console would say that an update is required to run the game, which you could accept to download and play.

This would not be a vulnerability because the console is not running the old executable. It would only run content signed to run on the new console, which would be downloaded from Sony. Even if someone were to hack the BD drive firmware to pass off burned discs as legit discs, and if they were to write their own program with a known gameid, the console would download the updated executable for the real game. If they ran that, the game would fail to launch because it wouldn't be able to load files from the fake disc.

You wouldn't even need to install the games to your hard drive, since it doesn't need to patch all files. The update would launch from the hard drive, but it would load the files from the disc.

ejburke

January 19th, 2011, 04:00 PM

jcap

January 19th, 2011, 04:23 PM

I don't disagree with you; I think you're right, that it is possible to fix the forward compatibility of the PS3 library. But I don't know enough to say whether patching is an air-tight solution. Obviously, a patch is likely to fail when applied to code it wasn't specifically designed for, but hypothetically, a malicious application could "say" it is "Legitimate Game X", have a matching checksum, AND have bits that match precisely what the patcher is targeting. In that case, the homebrew or modified code would have just been signed, sealed, and delivered unto the PS4, where it could potentially be used to jailbreak that platform. I'm not saying that would be easy, but a million monkeys with a million typewriters...

I think it's just safer for Sony to replace the entire executable with a downloadable re-issue.
Yeah I agree, that's why I thought downloading a new executable was the best bet. It would also allow the user to play from disc instead of installing the game to the hard drive.

Is it possible to have more than one signature? I was just thinking that maybe any future PS3 release could have both the leaked signature and a new signature that wasn't bungled in its implementation. The old signature would keep the discs working with the current install base, while the new signature would ensure forward compatibility. But again, I'm a little hazy on how this stuff works.
I was wondering this too, especially for the sake of all future games. It probably is possible to have the dash check for either the old or new signature. Although it wouldn't prevent homebrew stuff from running, it could give them some control back. If Bungie releases a new game signed with the new key, no one would be able to modify the game, resign it with the new key, and cheat. However, the problem is that the original signature is still valid. They could do just like they are doing with MW2 - modify and resign. Since it IS a signed executable, the console probably wouldn't question it, and you're back to square 1.

Sony's goal right now should be protecting their online experience. It really shouldn't matter to them if you can pirate a game and play disconnected from the PSN. It shouldn't matter that someone can write their own program for the PS3. Sony should release updates for all popular multiplayer games, which would be signed. Version 4 of their dash could be released, which would require the new signature to play on the PSN. Now, since the root key is out, technically it may be possible for someone to unpack the update, modify the signature check, and create a "hacked" update....but only time could tell. I'd probably also throw in something that reported the console's hardware ID and a checksum of the executable to Sony when a user signs into the PSN, so they could auto-insta-permaban anyone who plays with a modified game.

jcap

January 21st, 2011, 01:07 AM

Rumor: Sony looking to CD keys for PS3 games.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/217204/is_sony_planning_to_thwart_ps3_pirates_with_bluray _serial_keys.html

Frankly, I don't really have any issue with it. It doesn't bother me since it's been going on with PC games for an eternity, but it's still a retarded move The article said it's to stop pirates, but pirates are only a small part of the problem. Currently, to pirate PS3 games it takes a decent amount of effort for a half-assed solution. In fact, the only reliable method involves risking bricking your console and requires a legit copy of the game. Their bigger problem is cheaters, and this isn't going to do anything to solve online hackers. Sure they can ban whole users' copies of games, but they can do that now with consoles. Either they are retarded and they don't realize that, or they are exploiting this opportunity to introduce their plans for CD keys.

Dwood

January 21st, 2011, 01:18 AM

Well, they left the Root Key open for basically anyone to find... What they need to do is get you on the phone.

ThePlague

January 21st, 2011, 01:36 AM

If PS3 went to using a cd key, it'd make it impossible for game retailer stores to sell used games, which is 1/4 of the income of places such as Gamestop. It's a good idea sure, but it isn't a PC.

=sw=warlord

January 21st, 2011, 04:31 AM

If PS3 went to using a cd key, it'd make it impossible for game retailer stores to sell used games, which is 1/4 of the income of places such as Gamestop. It's a good idea sure, but it isn't a PC.

Which if I may remind you is exactly what several publishers are trying to stamp out.

Warsaw

January 21st, 2011, 04:59 AM

Yeah, CD keys would actually be welcome by both publishers and developers alike.

sleepy1212

January 21st, 2011, 07:35 AM

and I wouldn't buy 9/10 of the games i buy.

jcap

January 21st, 2011, 11:27 AM

and I wouldn't buy 9/10 of the games i buy.
Sony and the publishers don't really care, tbqh. If you are buying new games and selling them as used once you play them, they don't see anything from the new buyer. They don't see much of anything from used game sales, so it's like they aren't even there. Sure, they are losing you as a buyer, but now they have a lot of other people who will buy the game new since it's worthless used.

Rook

January 21st, 2011, 11:28 AM

PC is phasing out CD keys for the most part and Sony is wanting to add them? l o l

jcap

January 21st, 2011, 11:35 AM

How are PC games phasing out CD keys? Steam downloads? Yeah, in a sense, but consoles haven't gotten there yet. Granted, once CD keys become mainstream, downloading games will probably take off. The problem with game downloads still is that you can't move between consoles and accounts freely. At least the Sony CD key gives you 5 activations.

Kornman00

January 21st, 2011, 03:59 PM

Expect when people buy used games, they still have to go through the same marketplace to buy DLC. Unless of course it's a DLC copy of the game (eg, Undead Nightmare :woop:)

jcap

January 27th, 2011, 09:53 PM

And now, time for today's

ARE YOU FUCKING SHITTING ME???

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/114/1146457p1.html

http://www.scribd.com/doc/46739947/Proposed-Order

Sony must have already paid off the courts in California, hence why they want the trial there.

DarkHalo003

January 27th, 2011, 09:57 PM

I lol'd. Also, hacker shouldn't have bragged. That's all I'm saying.

EX12693

January 28th, 2011, 02:32 AM

TeeKup

January 28th, 2011, 02:35 AM

It's Sony...What would you expect?

EX12693

January 28th, 2011, 02:47 AM

Good headphones. They have succeeded.

TeeKup

January 28th, 2011, 04:07 AM

I prefer Philips.

Cortexian

January 28th, 2011, 04:26 AM

I prefer Sennheiser, or Psyko for 5.1 headphones.

TeeKup

January 28th, 2011, 04:28 AM

I of course mean the tiny ear buds. I don't go for the fancy things sadly.

Spartan094

January 28th, 2011, 07:25 AM

Good headphones. They have succeeded.
No. I broke one to many Sony headphones except for the more "expensive" ones. Which one of them ceased to work yesterday, I know what I'm using as target practice.

Besides I like Skullcandy, good quality and sound. My dad said Sony used to make shit better back then that lasted alot longer then today.

Pyong Kawaguchi

January 28th, 2011, 07:41 AM

Steelseries siberia 51016's are always nice, I've got them.

Kornman00

January 28th, 2011, 07:46 AM

So, how about them root keys...

Patrickssj6

January 28th, 2011, 09:51 AM

my headphones has them D:

Amit

January 28th, 2011, 12:37 PM

I just came in here again and stopped abruptly at the sudden change of topic.

Patrickssj6

January 28th, 2011, 12:50 PM

Well it started out with Hackers, changed into the Sony Lawsuit followed by everyone posting their headphones and claiming they have the best ones.

btw:
The Best - Sennheiser, AKG
Price/Quality but shitty design and meh sound - Philipps, Sony
Shitty Quality but nice sound and design - Skullcandy

Phopojijo

January 28th, 2011, 05:09 PM

Welp. Looks like I wont be buying any Sony products anymore if I can't do my own stuff to them.
It's a shame, too. Sony makes good stuff. But I'm not gonna support Sony's bullshit here.

This would be like..... Microsoft suing the guy that invented the Torx wrench because you can use it to open and mod your Xbox.....

Son(y), I am disappoint.It's not the same at all.

Mechanical devices are commonplace so the judge wouldn't need the prosecuting attourneys to explain what they are and their legal ramifications.

However in terms of software and other digital hacking devices... prosecuting attourneys are required to explain the law to the judge and the jury before the trial because they have otherwise no prior knowledge of it.

Yes, I said prosecuting attourneys.

EX12693

January 29th, 2011, 03:51 AM

Meh. A tool is a tool, whether mechanical or digital... that was more of my point.
But yeah... the prosecuting attorneys explaining the hacking tool...... ugh.....

(Also, Sennheisers are the best. I dont need the best, though.)

Pooky

January 29th, 2011, 05:14 AM

Literally never buying a Sony product again. No big loss, really.

DarkHalo003

January 29th, 2011, 08:06 PM

Phopojijo

January 31st, 2011, 03:31 PM

There are people who sell hacking devices and I believe you could use it to make games without purchasing dev kits.

Kornman00

January 31st, 2011, 04:40 PM

Maybe they should have thought of that before they went and pulled OtherOS out from ppl's feet :mech2:

Phopojijo

January 31st, 2011, 05:36 PM

What? Why WOULDN'T you want to piss off the hackers who aren't breaking your copy-protection to do what they want?

Champ

January 31st, 2011, 08:10 PM

Sony treats their equipment as if its a bunch of holy relics. Not saying their systems aren't bad, but my choosing an Xbox 360 over aPS3 and never regretting not having a PS3 really should indicate that their systems aren't all that. Plus, it's not like people are gonna stop. It's also not like people can go around with the codes and what not making a profit.
Right because you not buying a PS3 is really sticking it to Sony and they're really upset and continually asking themselves "Oh no, DarkHalo003 doesn't want a PS3. How can we possibly make our systems better so he will finally choose us over the competition?!" Oh let's not forget that you're opinion on which system is better/worse is like written law..

Warsaw

January 31st, 2011, 08:27 PM

Fanboy much?

Maybe not him, but the hundreds of thousands of people choosing the 360 over the PS3 should serve as a reminder to them that they are no longer the king of consoles as they once were. And don't even mention the 360's head start because 360 sales have continuously been stronger. I mean, shit, PS3 has a few exclusives I want but 360 has all the other games and then a few even more compelling exclusives. It really boils down to whose exclusives you like better.

sleepy1212

February 1st, 2011, 09:14 AM

Patrickssj6

February 1st, 2011, 10:50 AM

Sony had a lot of bad luck.

The Xbox topped the PS2 because of superior power. In the next gen Sony thought they have to put all processing power they could into a console possible but obviously that did not work out either.

=sw=warlord

February 1st, 2011, 10:53 AM

Right because you not buying a PS3 is really sticking it to Sony and they're really upset and continually asking themselves "Oh no, DarkHalo003 doesn't want a PS3. How can we possibly make our systems better so he will finally choose us over the competition?!" Oh let's not forget that you're opinion on which system is better/worse is like written law..
By your logic voting systems for implementing democratic governments are useless in nature as no one single person will make the difference which is why the majority of elections are skewered. (http://www.ukpolitical.info/Turnout45.htm)
If enough people were to say to themselves "hey I don't like this company because of it's policies I won't buy their products because of it" then the company will be forced to change it's policies, there is nothing in any company that is set in stone.
If a business practice is causing said business to lose profits the practice will either be changed or removed entirely.

Kornman00

February 1st, 2011, 11:09 AM

which is worse, loss of console sales to a bunch of basement dwellers who are pissed about something 99% of the world doesn't give a shit about, or loss of game sales due to pirating which considerable more people will care about.
Neither. Shoddy hardware/software QA is worse. Maybe next time Sony will test their shit before flushing it!

Warsaw

February 1st, 2011, 04:28 PM

By your logic voting systems for implementing democratic governments are useless in nature as no one single person will make the difference which is why the majority of elections are skewered. (http://www.ukpolitical.info/Turnout45.htm)
If enough people were to say to themselves "hey I don't like this company because of it's policies I won't buy their products because of it" then the company will be forced to change it's policies, there is nothing in any company that is set in stone.
If a business practice is causing said business to lose profits the practice will either be changed or removed entirely.

I wish I could +rep you right now. :smith:

@Patrickssj6: Xbox actually didn't top the PS2. I personally felt it was the better console, but the PS2 continues be manufactured and sold all over the world. That has to be a testament to its status. Sony just let it go to their head this time around the one, single thing the PS3 has that the 360 will never get is Blu-ray capability. With HD movies available through services such as Netflix, though, it's almost a moot consideration.

@Kornman00: Heh. Flushed shit is still shit. :ohdear:

=sw=warlord

February 1st, 2011, 05:00 PM

I wish I could +rep you right now. :smith:

It's a cruel world.
But then again, one person +rep anyone wouldn't make the slight of difference.:downs:

Neither. Shoddy hardware/software QA is worse. Maybe next time Sony will test their shit before flushing it!
It's odd how everyone is acting so surprised that Sony has yet again made a fuck up with their flagship console.
I remember back when the PS2 slim was released there were more of those dropping like flies than the Xb360 did with the RROD.

Warsaw

February 1st, 2011, 05:27 PM

Considering my rep power was 7, it makes some bit of difference. =þ

Phopojijo

February 1st, 2011, 05:32 PM

Of course someone like me reads this thread and thinks, "The 360 is actually worse than the PS3 when it comes to being locked down".

... it's just that Sony had it unlocked to start, then slowly locked it down as people were using those methods to pirate games. ((It only does... less than it used to)) Pissing off the hackers... Linux buffs... the US Air Force (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/05/how-removing-ps3-linux-hurts-the-air-force.ars)... to not stop piracy on their platform.

So while you guys are bickering about who is more locked down -- how about you plug your PC into your TV, plug a controller into it, and not worry about it. (Ideally we'd be moved to DRM-Free GPL'd OSes for completely unlocked gaming... but hey, baby steps).

Warsaw

February 1st, 2011, 05:51 PM

True. But the controversy here isn't about who is locked down, it's about Sony not having the right to pursue this case because he paid money to own his console and do what he wants to it.

Kornman00

February 2nd, 2011, 06:23 AM

Oh and don't forget headphones! I don't see how you started thinking about the 360 and which one was more "locked down" than the other from this thread, Phopo. One's an apple, the other's an orange.

p0lar_bear

February 7th, 2011, 06:16 PM

True. But the controversy here isn't about who is locked down, it's about Sony not having the right to pursue this case because he paid money to own his console and do what he wants to it.

Knowing Sony, there's probably some clause in the manual stating that you're not actually purchasing the hardware, but rather a license to own and operate one. If not, expect it in the PS4.

At any rate, I find this (http://bash.org/?577451) Bash quote appropriate.

Warsaw

February 7th, 2011, 07:17 PM

I would do it. Too bad there isn't a Sony office around here. That said, check this out (http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Used-Games-Serial-Codes-DRM-PlayStation-3-key-generator,news-10025.html).

sleepy1212

February 8th, 2011, 08:59 AM

No more used games!? Thanks pirates, you are my heros.

Warsaw

February 8th, 2011, 04:40 PM

I'm actually thrilled at this. Why? Because it will show developers that consoles are no better than PC and in the end will make the same profit, especially when people start rationalizing that they can get the same or a more complete experience on a PC as on a console.

Higuy

February 8th, 2011, 06:14 PM

PC will always dominate console, its very obvious too.

Warsaw

February 8th, 2011, 06:38 PM

Uh, right now devs focus on consoles because that's where the money is. With this fiasco, that could very well change.

EX12693

February 8th, 2011, 07:04 PM

Knowing Sony, there's probably some clause in the manual stating that you're not actually purchasing the hardware, but rather a license to own and operate one. If not, expect it in the PS4.

At any rate, I find this (http://bash.org/?577451) Bash quote appropriate.

I would do it, but instead of a cement block, it would be a PS3.

TVTyrant

February 8th, 2011, 07:35 PM

LOL at the un-named source part. ZFrankly I would be surprised if they actually did that on this console. It would mean nothing other than that they are little bitches who cannot take any heat from the community they are largely at fault to supporting by opening the system in the first place. Sony is being worse right now then Nintendo was ten years ago with the mini discs on the GameCube, which took all the usefulness out of the system.

BTW GameCube ownerz for LIIIIIIIFFFFFFFFFFFEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

=sw=warlord

February 11th, 2011, 03:38 PM

you sunk my battleship! (http://www.slashgear.com/twitter-user-sinks-sonys-battleship-leaks-ps3-hacking-code-via-pr-guy-09132317/)
http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/tweetterror.jpg

Nero

February 11th, 2011, 08:22 PM

you sunk my battleship! (http://www.slashgear.com/twitter-user-sinks-sonys-battleship-leaks-ps3-hacking-code-via-pr-guy-09132317/)
http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/tweetterror.jpg

AHaha, my friend told me about this today.

Pooky

February 21st, 2011, 02:01 AM

Uh, right now devs focus on consoles because that's where the money is. With this fiasco, that could very well change.

Except for consoles being vastly simpler and more user friendly, as well as cheaper. Not everyone wants to fuck with driver updates, obscure crashes, community fixes, and building their own PC just to play video games. Sometimes I just want to pop the disk in and be guaranteed it will work.

Bodzilla

February 21st, 2011, 02:17 AM

your not guaranteed'd it'll work though.

see RROD.
i see what your saying, but consoles like PC's dont always behave well.

Warsaw

February 21st, 2011, 02:32 AM

Except for consoles being vastly simpler and more user friendly, as well as cheaper. Not everyone wants to fuck with driver updates, obscure crashes, community fixes, and building their own PC just to play video games. Sometimes I just want to pop the disk in and be guaranteed it will work.

Too bad almost every time you want to just pop in the disc and play your new game you have to sit through another unannounced and unwelcome update; that's just as bad considering it seems to always have to download it twice before it sticks. I do concede the cheaper and simpler points. However, consoles are getting more and more complex; soon the only thing they won't be able to do is be legitimately productive.

annihilation

February 21st, 2011, 02:57 AM

Too bad almost every time you want to just pop in the disc and play your new game you have to sit through another unannounced and unwelcome update

And the PC doesn't have these updates?

Arteen

February 21st, 2011, 11:00 AM

Too bad almost every time you want to just pop in the disc and play your new game you have to sit through another unannounced and unwelcome update; that's just as bad considering it seems to always have to download it twice before it sticks. I do concede the cheaper and simpler points. However, consoles are getting more and more complex; soon the only thing they won't be able to do is be legitimately productive.
Oh god, five whole seconds of my life, gone forever because the game got a new patch. The horror.

Kornman00

February 21st, 2011, 11:16 AM

TBQH, PC games have tighter communities and tend to live longer than console games. PC upgrades don't cause games to become completely obsolete where consoles do. Also, PC games typically enable users to tweak their game set (either through supported mods or by "trainers"; god I hate that term).

The only thing really good about consoles are that they give developers an exact range of configuration(s) (you really only need to worry if the user has a HDD or not with the Xbox) and less rampant piracy (jailbroken or dev machines aren't as easy to come by and take time to develop/obtain) .

There are reasons for game cracks and not all of them are for piracy. I've talked with a Valve employee about it before and he pointed me to their findings about Russians and how they typically get games months after the initial release (here's an article too (http://www.tomshardware.com/news/valve-game-software-pirate,6865.html)). For the Russians, someone could take a cracked copy of the game, slap in proper localization (ie, translations) and release way before an "official" release is given to the same area.

Pooky

February 21st, 2011, 11:36 AM

And the PC doesn't have these updates?

Not only does the PC have updates, but you usually have to find and download them from an external website first. I'm aware that PC has its strong points, but consoles appeal much more to the average person.

It's also been my experience that consoles present a much more level playing field. Where on a PC game the guy with an uber PC that knows all the advantageous console commands and has some crazy control setup has a massive advantage over a normal person. On a console everybody has the exact same hardware setup, nobody has access to console commands, and generally speaking everyone's using pretty much the same controller.

Kornman00

February 21st, 2011, 11:59 AM

Unless your name is jcap (http://xim3.com/) %-). But yeah, in a perfect world console gamers all are in the same environment.

Pyong Kawaguchi

February 21st, 2011, 02:25 PM

Unless your name is jcap (http://xim3.com/) %-). But yeah, in a perfect world console gamers all are in the same environment.

Lol, I ordered one :3

Phopojijo

February 21st, 2011, 03:32 PM

Not only does the PC have updates, but you usually have to find and download them from an external website first. I'm aware that PC has its strong points, but consoles appeal much more to the average person.

It's also been my experience that consoles present a much more level playing field. Where on a PC game the guy with an uber PC that knows all the advantageous console commands and has some crazy control setup has a massive advantage over a normal person. On a console everybody has the exact same hardware setup, nobody has access to console commands, and generally speaking everyone's using pretty much the same controller.You can have a computer that accepts 360 controller input in Media Centre.

You can have a computer that boots directly into Media Centre.

You can have Media Centre deal with Tray and Play compatible games. (If Microsoft believed it was worth it)

You can have separate servers dependent on the input method. (If the game developer believed it was worth it)

And unlike consoles -- dedicated servers with admins.

Pooky

February 21st, 2011, 03:58 PM

Unless your name is jcap (http://xim3.com/) %-). But yeah, in a perfect world console gamers all are in the same environment.

Of course there are always exceptions. At least for the moment that stuff is still the exception and not the rule.

You can have a computer that accepts 360 controller input in Media Centre.

You can have a computer that boots directly into Media Centre.

You can have Media Centre deal with Tray and Play compatible games. (If Microsoft believed it was worth it)

You can have separate servers dependent on the input method. (If the game developer believed it was worth it)

And unlike consoles -- dedicated servers with admins.

I'm not sure how any of this is supposed to contradict anything I said...

I'm aware that PC has its strong points, but consoles appeal much more to the average person.

Warsaw

February 21st, 2011, 04:08 PM

And the PC doesn't have these updates?

I'm not saying PC doesn't have them, I'm saying that consoles are no better about them.

@Arteen: it's longer than five seconds. Closer to between ten and twenty minutes (enough time for a round or two of Matchmaking) and sometimes a couple of hours. It's also not usually the game getting patched, it's the stupid console itself. See: useless dashboard update. I don't hop on my 360 all that often and when I do it's because I just want to get in and play something quickly. Since I don't use it often, the updates pile up. What was the point of a console again?

@Pooky: You do realise that turning down one's graphics settings usually gives one an advantage in multiplayer, yes? Therefore, the guy with the uber PC does not always win. Things like skill deficits are present on console, too, so the whole point you were trying to make there is irrelevant. I also don't have any idea why you are bringing console commands into this because, apart from key bindings, that is usually disabled in multiplayer. The only crazy control setups I've seen are using the mouse wheel to bunny hop in Counter-Strike, something that has since been disabled via a change to the jump physics.

One more thing to bring up, since this thread is about the Playstation 3 and not the Xbox 360: you [PS3 owners] still have to install the game. Oops, no more tray and play. Playstation is now a cheap PC from 2005 with a processor that few know how to use and a blu-ray player. So much for ease of use.

tl;dr: consoles are getting too far away from their roots. They are not as simple as they should be.

Phopojijo

February 21st, 2011, 04:13 PM

@Pooky
The point is the only reason why PCs don't appeal as much to the average person is artificial... they can do everything and more than a console... and even be as simple, or simpler, than consoles. If we have a few simple tweaks and a lot more marketing -- they would have all the benefits of consoles, plus more, for the common person.

There's even benefits for developers too -- such as not having awkward early-next-gen heartaches learning new hardware -- or platform license fees -- but I'll digress on that.

@Warsaw -- you forgot rapid fire controllers and such.

Warsaw

February 21st, 2011, 04:27 PM

Eh, moot on a PC game where there is virtually no such thing as analogue controls. On console it is a problem. On PC, if you can click fast you can counter. In either case, there isn't much to be gained from such a mod because the games where people do it have recoil systems that make it worthless. Case in point: Call of Duty.

Pooky

February 24th, 2011, 12:17 PM

@Pooky: You do realise that turning down one's graphics settings usually gives one an advantage in multiplayer, yes? Therefore, the guy with the uber PC does not always win.
And yet, on a console no one has to fuck with that because everyone has the same graphics.

Things like skill deficits are present on console, too, so the whole point you were trying to make there is irrelevant.

Not really, no.

I also don't have any idea why you are bringing console commands into this because, apart from key bindings, that is usually disabled in multiplayer. The only crazy control setups I've seen are using the mouse wheel to bunny hop in Counter-Strike, something that has since been disabled via a change to the jump physics.

You've never played any Quake 3 engine multiplayer games, have you?

@Pooky
The point is the only reason why PCs don't appeal as much to the average person is artificial... they can do everything and more than a console... and even be as simple, or simpler, than consoles. If we have a few simple tweaks and a lot more marketing -- they would have all the benefits of consoles, plus more, for the common person.

It doesn't matter if they could, the fact is they don't. If you want to do any of that stuff you have to put in more effort than most non gamers want to put in to play a fucking video game.

At any rate, I'm tired of arguing about this, so I'll leave it be.

Elitist snobs will be elitist snobs.

Warsaw

February 24th, 2011, 07:00 PM

The point about graphics is that everyone is able to use the most competitive settings if they so wish. Nobody is left out except those who can't run the game at all, which is the essentially the same as not having a console to run a game.

Next, id Tech 3 is a modern engine and is representative of a majority of online play on the PC platform...not. It does, however, have its source code exposed to the world at large.

And yes, the skill deficit is still there on console. Are you are trying to tell me that the new guy in a given console game is not going to be used to wipe the floor by the guy who has been playing for the last six months? Come on now.

Not backing up your point is a fantastic way to defend a position, just like running awa--owait. I wouldn't call anyone here an "elitist snob" since we all own at least one console and we all play on them somewhat regularly. The only example of snobbery is that last line in your post.

Now, consoles are cheaper than gaming PCs and that's the primary selling point. $400 versus $600. However, you have more functionality on a PC than a console, so that's where the $200 premium comes from. On the idea of selling, consoles are also advertised where as gaming PCs are not. I have never seen a single desktop gaming computer in a Best Buy flyer or advertised on TV.

Cortexian

February 24th, 2011, 07:09 PM

Now, consoles are cheaper than gaming PCs and that's the primary selling point. $400 versus $600. However, you have more functionality on a PC than a console, so that's where the $200 premium comes from. On the idea of selling, consoles are also advertised where as gaming PCs are not. I have never seen a single desktop gaming computer in a Best Buy flyer or advertised on TV.
Consoles are only cheaper if you already have an existing television in the 720p - 1080p range to enjoy them on. I absolutely loath running the current generation of consoles on standard def televisions, so it's the console price + television in most cases.

I've seen gaming PC's advertised in magazines, newspapers, on television, and in flyers for major electronic retailers... And I see them fairly often as well, so gaming PC's are definitely advertised. They just aren't advertised with the same regularity as consoles and their related peripherals and games.

Warsaw

February 24th, 2011, 07:14 PM

Well, location does have something to do with advertisements. I don't see any, but you live way north and way west of me.

And yes, I wasn't counting cost of displays. I was assuming that you had a TV of some kind; you can plug computers into television sets and you can plug consoles into computer monitors. Everybody on here has at least one of the two.

Like I said earlier, I'm not hating on consoles as consoles. The problem is that they aren't consoles any more as much as they are entertainment hubs. I bought my console for games damnit, not ESPN.

Kornman00

April 5th, 2011, 11:24 AM

Anonymous announced on Sunday that Sony's legal actions against hacker GeoHot and its other corporate behaviors "have been deemed an unforgivable offense against free speech and internet freedom."
Anonymous vows war on Sony, strikes first blow (http://ingame.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/04/04/6407792-anonymous-vows-war-on-sony-strikes-first-blow)

sleepy1212

April 5th, 2011, 01:30 PM

I'm so glad they're standing up for me by fucking up my vidya.

sucks to be the eggswe are legion omelette :maddowns:

jcap

April 11th, 2011, 04:13 PM

Sony settles the lawsuit against Hotz.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/04/sony-settles-ps3-lawsuit/

I very much doubt this was an act of "kindness" on Sony's behalf. If they really believed they had a case against him, they would continue to go at him full force and throw him in jail. I'm willing to bet anything that they realized that if this actually went to trial, they would have lost and a precedence would be set against ALL future Sony hardware that would make it LEGAL to do what he had done. So, the only way they could actually "win" was to not sue him on condition of him never cracking a Sony product again.