Weapons Discussion

[=sw=warlord]

As an aside, I'm glad everyone else finally realized how obnoxious the DMR really is.

The DMR is alot less obnoxious than the BR in Halo 3 was.
At least now I see people using weapons other than the one all purpose scalpel.

[Pooky]

The BR wasn't a scalpel, it was a mid range spam machine :\

At any rate, people did use other weapons in Halo 3 on big team maps. Infantry only combat in Halo 3 blew chunks.

[DarkHalo003]

The DMR is alot less obnoxious than the BR in Halo 3 was.
At least now I see people using weapons other than the one all purpose scalpel.
Agreed. Once you get hit by the DMR, there is hope you'll survive and actually be able to something different than your enemy's strategy. In Halo3 BRs, it was all about just autoaim and spam. Really sad. I'm glad they had social playlists that contained AR starts, otherwise I would have left Halo 3 a long time ago.

[Hotrod]

More often than not, I'll see a DMR and pass it up. I mean, I usually play in the playlists with less people in them, therefore smaller maps. Why use the DMR when I can use the AR, Pistol, Plasma Repeater, Needler, etc?

If it weren't for DMR games, I'd have a hell of a lot less DMR kills. Not to say that the DMR isn't a good weapon, but like mentioned before, it isn't all-powerful anymore.

[Donut]

In Halo3 BRs, it was all about just autoaim and spam. Really sad. I'm glad they had social playlists that contained AR starts, otherwise I would have left Halo 3 a long time ago.
except that later on in the round youre basically left defenseless on respawn after the enemy team has picked up some weapons around the map. i cannot count the number of times i have spawned with an ar in halo 3 and been killed by a br because i cant effectively shoot back.

[Pooky]

except that later on in the round youre basically left defenseless on respawn after the enemy team has picked up some weapons around the map. i cannot count the number of times i have spawned with an ar in halo 3 and been killed by a br because i cant effectively shoot back.

AR starts are terrible. You literally have no ability to engage people at BR range while they tear you to shreds.

[annihilation]

I guess you should pull of some fancy maneuvering until you get a pistol or something.

I've always been able to fight back.

[Warsaw]

AR starts are terrible. You literally have no ability to engage people at BR range while they tear you to shreds.

Maybe on open maps. On closed-in maps, I never have a problem.

[Pooky]

I guess you should pull of some fancy maneuvering until you get a pistol or something.

I've always been able to fight back.


Maybe on open maps. On closed-in maps, I never have a problem.

I doubt that very much. By BR range, I mean something like sniper tower to camo hall on the pit (the distance, not specifically that location). If you kill someone at that range with an AR, then they're amazingly bad.

[Pooky]

Once again, only referring to big team here. Infantry combat in Reach as in Halo 3 is way too shitty to even mention.


Agreed. Once you get hit by the DMR, there is hope you'll survive and actually be able to something different than your enemy's strategy. In Halo3 BRs, it was all about just autoaim and spam. Really sad. I'm glad they had social playlists that contained AR starts, otherwise I would have left Halo 3 a long time ago.


More often than not, I'll see a DMR and pass it up. I mean, I usually play in the playlists with less people in them, therefore smaller maps. Why use the DMR when I can use the AR, Pistol, Plasma Repeater, Needler, etc?

If it weren't for DMR games, I'd have a hell of a lot less DMR kills. Not to say that the DMR isn't a good weapon, but like mentioned before, it isn't all-powerful anymore.

Gotta disagree on these points too. Giving the DMR 100% base accuracy and hitscan bullets was a horrible decision. Because of the DMR's accuracy and hitscan, there is literally no situation where you can see an enemy but be out of their attack range. It leads to MW2 syndrome, where you can't go anywhere without constantly being in danger of attack from multiple angles. Even if you have an aimbot and play on 10 sensitivity, there's no way you can react to being shot from 2 people at 2 angles. You're just dead. This severely constricts movement on the maps and leads to mindless chokepoint gameplay and power weapon camping.

Halo 3 on the other hand didn't have as much of that, because it's possible to actually be out of range of the Battle Rifle. Moreover, attacking people with the BR at long range actually requires considerable skill at leading, and you don't get any autoaim. I don't know if it's autoaim, magnetism, hitboxes, or the bullets themselves, but it's way too easy to hit people with the DMR at any range. Same goes for the sniper.

[Arteen]

I agree with Pooky. I find the DMR in BTB to be more annoying than the BR ever was.

[annihilation]

The problem is the new shielding system.
4 shots anywhere and your shields are down, it's not giving much of a chance to escape and the hitscan only makes it worse.

[Warsaw]

I think the problem is that it isn't the first game, but that's just me.

:downs:

[DarkHalo003]

I think the problem is that it isn't the first game, but that's just me.

:downs:
Heh, I lol'd.

I have to disagree with some above statements though. The BR just overall dominated everything from medium to long range. Usually, unless you escaped via object interference (you found cover), you were easily screwed. There was almost no way to survive an encounter involving another player shooting you with a BR out in the open (or even in medium spaces) due to magnetism/autoaim, which I find is flawed. However, the DMR's error increases as the trigger is fired (regardless of autoaim) and allows easier chances (easier, though maybe not by a lot, still easier) to escape to cover than the BR. At least, this is my experience. I always found the BR to be unbearable in comparison to the DMR, which is sheerly up to the user to use adequately. The BR simply required a spammy trigger finger and autoaim. At least, that's how I've always viewed this scenario. But this is just my take. There is easily room for dispute.

I agree the DMR is more effective than the AR against vehicles. This makes BTB generally more difficult to remedy simply because everyone needs to have a more reliable starting weapon in a vehicle heavy map. Of course, this can be remedied by placing more Grenade Launchers/Plasma Grenades/non-overpowered-anti-vehicular weaponry across the maps. Spire almost has a perfect formula regarding weapon balance against the vehicles on the map. The only area void of weapons/resources against vehicles is the rocky area near the Falcon spawn. Breakpoint is a great BTB in my opinion because it also shares a generally good balance between the opportunities vehicles and infantry have against another. Now does that mean the conflicts with be balanced for both sides? No, but that's where the skill of the player comes in and changes the scenario, for the good or bad. It equals out for each side too and each side easily has the same opportunity to make a difference. Just pointing out, a good BTB allows that. On Hemorrhage, this balance is not only lacking, but it is also demeaning for more variety in combat on the map. If the middle featured a Rocket Launcher/Splazer and the right/left sides featured Grenade Launchers, then maybe vehicles could be a lot easier to maintain. Yes the player will be a bit more vulnerable to players using DMRs, however, there are only two DMRs on the map and there are 16 players. It's like if your team were to lose the sniper to the other; in the end, it's not balance's fault, but your team for losing a valuable asset. I think we've covered why AR/Pistol is a good starting profile for all standard gametypes, so I want to use what I just explained to exemplify this point.

[Pooky]

The best thing for Big Team gameplay would be if Bungie hadn't horribly borked the damage system against vehicles. Halo 1 had it set up perfectly. Your primary weapon is effective against vehicles and can take them down with concentrated fire, but the vehicles are able to escape to cover and return to battle with full strength. In Reach, because of the aforementioned DMR traits, it's all too easy to hit vehicles anywhere on the map. Since the vehicles don't regenerate health, it's a simple matter to just nick them to death. Furthermore, the lack of any sort of health readout for the vehicles makes it impossible to tell when you're one DMR shot from death, which can really ruin your planned tank rush.

On the other hand, if you spawn with pistols then you have no ability to damage the vehicles whatsoever unless you find one of the overpowered anti vehicle weapons that let you take down a fully loaded warthog with one shot.

Overall, it's just a bad system. Halo 3's was at least more tolerable.

[Warsaw]

Heh, I lol'd.




The sad part is that I was serious. It just ain't as fun, which is why I play Halo PC and my 360 has been collecting dust the last few months, especially since I got BC2 on PC now. I almost feel bad for purchasing a Live sub.

[annihilation]

Heh, I lol'd.

I have to disagree with some above statements though. The BR just overall dominated everything from medium to long range. Well duh. It is a mid range weapon. Usually, unless you escaped via object interference (you found cover), you were easily screwed. There was almost no way to survive an encounter involving another player shooting you with a BR out in the open Why would you run out in the open when you don't have anything to effectively defend yourself? (or even in medium spaces) due to magnetism/autoaim, which I find is flawed. However, the DMR's error increases as the trigger is fired (regardless of autoaim) and allows easier chances (easier, though maybe not by a lot, still easier) to escape to cover than the BR. At least, this is my experience. I find it easier to escape the BR since the movement speed is increased thus easier to escape. Sprinting in Reach feels weird. I always found the BR to be unbearable in comparison to the DMR, which is sheerly up to the user to use adequately. The BR simply required a spammy trigger finger and autoaim. At least, that's how I've always viewed this scenario. But this is just my take. There is easily room for dispute.


My response.

[Warsaw]

Sometimes you have to run out into the open to get what you need to defend yourself out in the open in the first place. Also, at mid range, other weapons should be just as effective as the BR. They aren't.

[annihilation]

Unless you want a heavy weapon most weapons can be found around the spawn area.

Also, the Carbine is way more powerful than the BR.

[Pooky]

Sometimes you have to run out into the open to get what you need to defend yourself out in the open in the first place. Also, at mid range, other weapons should be just as effective as the BR. They aren't.
Why? The BR is the mid range weapon. If you want all weapons to be similarly effective, then you just end up with Call of Duty. No Halo game has ever had other weapons being as effective at mid range as the primary mid range weapon.

[Warsaw]

You missed the point. Bungie made many guns, some of them intended to be effective at medium range. These include the Assault Rifle, Plasma Rifle, Plasma Repeater, Pistol, Needler, and to a limited extent the Shotgun. We are already playing Call of Duty because everybody and his dog is spamming the DMR or the BR. There shouldn't be any single dominant weapon. I hear everybody complaining about the pistol being so dominant in the first game, so why should the BR and DMR be just as dominant? Hypocrisy if you ask me. At least in the first game the other weapons WERE useful at their intended ranges.

That said, the DMR is a mid to long range weapon. If you want the dominant mid-range weapon, go pick up an assault rifle.

[annihilation]

Those are all close range weapons.......
Besides, weapons in Reach are effective at their intended range. What's going to win, a DMR at close range vs an AR or a Sniper Rifle vs a Needle Rifle.

[Warsaw]

I don't consider that close range. Close range would be the Shotgun, Sword, Hammer, and Mauler. The sniper rifle would be long to extreme range. This is Halo we are talking about; the maps aren't big enough for what the weapons I listed are capable of being labeled as "close range."

And at close range in Reach, the DMR will probably win because it's going to be a grenade toss and a shot to the head. Or simply spam until the head shot is made. Either way, DMR user wins.

[DarkHalo003]

I don't consider that close range. Close range would be the Shotgun, Sword, Hammer, and Mauler. The sniper rifle would be long to extreme range. This is Halo we are talking about; the maps aren't big enough for what the weapons I listed are capable of being labeled as "close range."

And at close range in Reach, the DMR will probably win because it's going to be a grenade toss and a shot to the head. Or simply spam until the head shot is made. Either way, DMR user wins.
What bothers me is that in a lot of gametypes in matchmaking there is a lack of content existent in comparison to the entire game's available content. In other words, matchmaking even now hasn't fleshed out it's entire repertoire, which although is currently being updated is still taking a long time. Weapons like the Spiker and many many potential maps made by the community, including ones from the Forgetacular competition, are taking a long time to be in circulation. Yes, these thngs can take time, but should they take time? Of all of the maps we've been playing and have seen through Forge mode, how many of the legitimately fan-favorites actually end up in matchmaking? So far we only have one Invasion map from the community being thrown into matchmaking, but it's not even a true fan-favorite, but instead a map tested purely by the staff. I trust Bungie's judgement enough on the maps to give them leeway, but I seriously wish the people of the community could voice what they want in Matchmaking instead of being given a bone with odd spice that we only half-enjoy. Invasion Slayer is particularly affected by this because there is only one good map for it with balance (Boneyard), while the remaining have some great form of unbalance (Hemorrhage is a genocide for the Elite players most of the time and the other two just aren't common enough to know). My point is, Bungie hasn't put in enough community favorites for big-scale maps like Invasion and BTB, especially those developed in Forge World. What's the point of even having such a massive, spacial canvas if they won't even display half of the great works created?

[Pooky]

Invasion Slayer on Paradiso is genocide against the Elites too, as well as being the worst (by far) map/gametype combo in series history. Don't vote for it.