Protoss 4gate nerfs yess UPDATED PTR NOTES IN OP 4/5

[n00b1n8R]

UPDATE (26/4):
PTR patch notes for 1.3.3:

Balance

PROTOSS
Archons are now a massive unit.
Range increased from 2 to 3.
Pylon power radius has been decreased from 7.5 to 6.5.
Cybernetics Core
Research Warp Gate time increased from 140 to 180.
Research Warp Gate time increased from 140 to 160.
Gateway
Sentry train time decreased from 42 to 37.
Stalker and Zealot train times go unchanged.
Stalker train time decreased from 42 to 37.
Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33.
Warp Gate unit train times remain unchanged.

TERRAN
Ghost
Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100.
Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 75%.
Thor
Thor now has 200 max energy, and starts with 50 energy.
250mm Strike Cannons now cost 150 energy to use (cooldown removed).
(this is a buff for P as it makes templar tech viable against thor rush again which has been pretty scary lately)

ZERG
Infestor
Speed decreased from 2.5 to 2.25.
(this is a buff according to Idra, it stops the infestors running in front of your army and all dieing after casting 1 fungal)
Spore Crawler
Root time decreased from 12 to 6.

Bug Fixes

Fixed a bug where Ghosts could not quickly EMP the same location.
Fixed a bug where players were still able to stack flying units on top of each other.http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1213111662

Not so sure about the decreased pylon radius (was that an issue for anything at all?), it makes a double wall in with 3x3 buildings impossible (which kinda helps v baneling bullshit) but whatever. Does anything other than VR deal bonus damage to massive units? Also I'm pretty sure the zealot build time got deliberately nerfd in an early patch to stop 2gate zealot rush, has the meta moved to that not being an issue now or what? TBQH I'm pretty OK with this as a toss player (except the spore crawler buff, those things are eat phoenix's D: )

E: Oh, the pylon radius was reduced to further nerf 4gate, I get it now.

EE: Ok so archons will squish FF's, cool. Shame you can't drop them now though, sucks for White-RA :(



Hello to you, Protoss players. I am coming with a gift of information that some of you may find interesting!

We have been looking into the 4gate issue and our designers have played with a lot of different fixes and changes, even those that were not strictly numbers related. While strong, 4gate is a lesser problem in other matchups, but we recognize that PvP is a different story.

Just throwing a nerf bat at warpgates would make protoss weak in early game. This is why we are currently looking at increasing warpgate research time, while at the same time compensating for it with reducing build time of protoss tier 1-1.5 units (though build times reduced only for gateways, cooldowns will stay the same for warpgates). This is an example of a fix you may see, but our developers plan to explore further options, before the patch officially hits.

We will address 4gate in the next patch.
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1971759389?page=2#21

well thank fuck

EEE: Updated with new patchnotes as of 3/5

[Rainbow Dash]

hahahahahahah are you fucking kidding me?

So toss's only reasonably good early pressure build is getting nerfed, neat.

[n00b1n8R]

4gate's not exactly a pressure, it's a semi-all in.
And it makes pvp the worst matchup in RTS history.

[Rainbow Dash]

4gate's not exactly a pressure, it's a semi-all in.

If you're a retarded player, I guess?

[n00b1n8R]

If you're a retarded player, I guess?
If you're not going semi-all in then you're 4gating wrong or playing idiots.

2nd point is undisputed though.

[Bodzilla]

i love you sel but it's not a pressure build.

3 gate pressure ala slayers alicia, but 4 warpgate is an all in, it's just that it's generally that successfull that the damage protoss does to itself while doing it is nullified by the sheer amount of damage they do to the opponent.

[Rainbow Dash]

it's an all in if you're a retard and can't transition out of it lol

[n00b1n8R]

post a rep of your gosu 4gate transitioning skills please

[Rainbow Dash]

get good pls

[n00b1n8R]

get good pls
rep or stfu

[Rainbow Dash]

these toss changes are fucking retarded

and still no marauder nerf or stalker/zealot buffs, jesus blizzard.

[Rainbow Dash]

ok so someone on bnet suggested that the warp gate nerfs would make it possible to tech to robo and counter a 4 gate with immortals

since immortals are supposedly also the counter to marauders and roaches, why not just leave gateways as they are, and just make it possible to for toss to tech to robo/stargate earlier, you know, so they actually have a chance vs other races.

[Bodzilla]

you mean toss go gateway into stargate.

your insane.


sorry bro you'll be able to build voidrays when i start building my first queens.

[Rainbow Dash]

I stopped taking your balance discussion seriously when you tried to convince me that carriers weren't totally broken units, and toss was op

[Bodzilla]

i didnt say that Carriers whern't good enough for their cost.

i said that if you want to get into the DPS and stats of roaches, marines maruders vs the protoss ball..... well then the biggest DPS unit in the game (the carrier) must be OP.
It's not a black and white issue, so stop treating it like one.

if i rush you i've done economic damage and tech damage against myself for the chance of doing damage to you.
therefore if you hold it, take minimal loss's and tech, work on your economy and then push threw my contain a little bit later you win, and you have the single greatest thing in the game to do that, the forcefield.

and on another note if you attack me and get a forcefield on my ramp, for as long as it's there you HALVE my production and ability to defend.

and another thing if you build 4 gate, and you produce them as soon as you can (like a good player) and you never miss a production cycle (like a good player) you will not have enough minerals to make a nexus.
your doing it wrong, late and winning because it's such a powerful EASY strat to do in the first place.

your a nice guy sel and i love you, but bro your DOING IT WRONG.

[n00b1n8R]

As much as zilla likes to bitch and QQ about his precious zerg, he's right Sel. stfu.

PS. You can't sustain production from 4gates one 1 base, period.
Because of the build, you bank enough for a full 2 or 3 cycles as the gates finish (of predominantly zealot/stalker) but after that it gets really tight.

PPS. I legemitely think toss is not OP (definitely not as bad as many would suggest) but rather, they've finally managed to drag themselves out of the meta-rut they've been in since release and work out how to play the game properly. The other races are just pissed that the tricks we've specifically learned to deal with are being dealt with and they have to try something new (the game's been out <1 year and people think it's figured? lmfao). Z are especially bad about this, it's part of why I'm such a fan of Spanishiwa.


PPPS. carriers should be able to move and shoot like every other toss air unit, then they'd be worth a shit!

[Bodzilla]

i said for a long time that toss unit composition was horrible, and yeah it took them a long time to figure it out, and everyon's stuck in a rut in one way or another.

however terrans fine atm, (they just need to learn to not just MMM their way to victory like the've done for a thousand years vs toss) but zergs crippling problem has always been versatility.
we're a heavily reactive race, with units that insta die to a lot of units, yet we have the worst scouting, and the worst harrass.
we're just not dynamic enough to compete with the huge amount of things the other races can do, seeing as we're only on 10 units....

but ya have to admit i've been trying pretty dam hard to find other ways, ultras with and without drops, mass upgrades, banelings, roach timing attacks ect ect ect.
and i think alot of people have been as well.

to make carriers 100% better they need to be like in SC1. when your interceptors returned they regained full health.

[Rainbow Dash]

I'm the highest ranked poster in this thread, and I'm still saying toss is up :):)

You're both also insisting 4gate has to be all in lol

[Bodzilla]

google it and find some stuff to prove us wrong.

[Rainbow Dash]

play toss and try to understand how the race can work

[Bodzilla]

i have played toss bro. the decision is unanimous.

if your not missing production cycles you wont have any money.

it's a simple math problem.

what your doing is a 3gate expo as a 4 gate.

[n00b1n8R]

I'm the highest ranked poster in this thread, and I'm still saying toss is up :):)
on the lolna server

[Rainbow Dash]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=217780

IT WAS FINE IN BW

TOSS IS OP ANYWAY

BUILD MORE THAN ONE PYLON

TOSS HAS TO THINK ABOUT THEIR BUILDING PLACEMENT NOW

holy shit these people are so FUCKING stupid, how did TL get a reputation as sc's best community, there's like maybe 100~ ish people there who aren't retarded.

[sevlag]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=217780

IT WAS FINE IN BW

TOSS IS OP ANYWAY

BUILD MORE THAN ONE PYLON

TOSS HAS TO THINK ABOUT THEIR BUILDING PLACEMENT NOW

holy shit these people are so FUCKING stupid, how did TL get a reputation as sc's best community, there's like maybe 100~ ish people there who aren't retarded.one of the main reasons i stay away from it

i know its a side note...but anyone know how to access the unused units that are present in the files but unuseable? was thinking of using the swarm host as a sort of AoE spellcaster

[n00b1n8R]

holy shit these people are so FUCKING stupid, how did TL get a reputation as sc's best community, there's like maybe 100~ ish people there who aren't retarded.

It was THE English broodwar community. That's it.
I only read posts highlighted in blue or by people I've heard of tbh.

@ Sev, google sc2mapster or something like that.

[sevlag]

It was THE English broodwar community. That's it.
I only read posts highlighted in blue or by people I've heard of tbh.

@ Sev, google sc2mapster or something like that.
i poked around mapster...and nada

[Rainbow Dash]

are you fucking kidding me

the pylon change went official

Also the 4gate changes are retarded, it was a problem in toss v toss, but now there's already a lot of reports of zerg and terrans just getting to rape toss even harder since they can't hold off their timing pushes now. Neat. Seriously should have just made robo, or stargate faster :SS


Seriously, i dont know where blizz have the head. Now they make thors useless again, P is the race braking the game and they still give them a buff, and T is just getting overkilled. I dont wanna complain about balance, but this is just getting worse for T players. Thors were starting to being used, now they nerf them. Blizz get someone in your balance team that actually knows how to play the game.
hahahahhaahha