Pirates, keep them or ban them, what would you do?

[Sean Aero]

The main reason for this is I want to get some insight in what is accepted within this community towards pirates and up till what point they should be included.

Alright, after the whole Microsoft E3 announcements and with the upcoming Halo titles being Xbox360 exclusive, my mind started wondering about the Halo PC community.
I kinda figured that the earliest date possible for a new Halo PC release will be 2013 with the Halo PC 10 year anniversary and if that doesn't happen it basically never will.

So my mind continued wondering a bit more about the current Halo PC community and its population.
As in the different type of players that we have and why the latest version 1.09 is less popular than v1.00.
This is mainly due to Pirates that are out there populating v1.00.

At this point it seems the community is accepting them more and more and is also taking them into account.
As in support for v1.00 in apps and such all due to its population size.
Even though everyone that bought a key still thinks these people should get a legit key after all these years off of e-bay for a mere 5 dollars.

So basically I seek your opinion this is all a bit hypothetically speaking, but just play along with me.
Answer the following question:

"If you had to make the decision now to include pirates completely into the Halo PC/CE community or ban them forever what would you do?"

Try to explain your reasoning. "Why did or didn't you?"

Your opinions are much appreciated, thanks!

[Rainbow Dash]

It's either play with them, or don't play at all, so we don't have a whole lot of choice in the matter.

[Pooky]

I'd rather see the game die than be supported only by a bunch of brain dead thieving idiots, so fuck them. Nobody who didn't pay for the game has any business playing it online for years on end.

[Vicky]

And those are pretty much both extremes, we bought the game why don't they? Maybe because they can't anymore. But, if they wouldn't be there the game would be pretty much dead. I'd go somewhere in the middle, if they play normal let them, if it's again a noob with a bot (easy to spot) ban etc.etc..

[StankBacon]

get rid of them.

[Pooky]

Maybe because they can't anymore.

Bullshit, the game is still for sale all over the place. If they can't afford it, well tough shit. You don't go to a car dealer and drive away with a new car just because you can't afford one.


But, if they wouldn't be there the game would be pretty much dead.

I'd rather it die gracefully than go on in some sort of half-dead state populated only by mute, brain dead morons.

[p0lar_bear]

Leave it be.

How many times have innocent end-users gotten screwed by anti-piracy measures? I'm sure any anti-piracy measures would catch a bunch of false positives, such as "stolen" keys like the ones in that key "generator" that Roger Wolfson was worried about, and the people affected who already bought the game once would be forced to hunt for another copy and buy it again.

Also, as much as it annoys me that a majority of pirates that play can't speak English, I'm a little sick and tired of the elitist mindset Halo players have. I'm not going to deny I had a high horse back when CE was in its prime, heck, right now I still don't like a bunch of the players in the game or the userbase in general save for my friends. Let these people play the game and enjoy it, who cares if they paid or not, especially on a PC game about 7 years old with virtually no support from its creators?

[Pooky]

How many times have innocent end-users gotten screwed by anti-piracy measures? I'm sure any anti-piracy measures would catch a bunch of false positives, such as "stolen" keys like the ones in that key "generator" that Robert Wolfson was worried about, and the people affected who already bought the game once would be forced to hunt for another copy and buy it again.

In this case I assume we're not talking about fancy copy protection software or innocent end users. If this is just a hypothetical question of whether I'd rather keep these pirates or be rid of them, I say fuck them. As has been pointed out, Gearbox always had our backs. People whined at them about the shitty netcode, but they offered us support for custom content and continued supporting the game way after they really had to (1.08 and 1.09 patches). Now here are these pirate fucktards, leeching off Gearbox when they clearly put a ton of effort into this game. And I'm supposed to think of the pirates as victims?


Also, as much as it annoys me that a majority of pirates that play can't speak English, I'm a little sick and tired of the elitist mindset Halo players have.At another time I might have agreed with you p0lar, but these people aren't just bad, and they're not just foreign. They're so mind crushingly stupid that they make the game worse simply by playing it. If any of these people even tried to learn or get better, I'd be interested in helping them. But all they want to do, day after day, is play Blood Gulch CTF ad infinitum, in silence, and really badly.

Once again, I'd rather Halo die gracefully than continue with only these people supporting it.

[Rainbow Dash]

I'd rather see the game die than be supported only by a bunch of brain dead thieving idiots, so fuck them. Nobody who didn't pay for the game has any business playing it online for years on end.

Fuck this, there's no other good games to play, I'd rather play with a bunch of dipshits than not play anything.

[Cortexian]

I'd rather see the pirates gone since 99% of them are horrible players that don't even speak English... I have nothing against them really, they provide some good cannon fodder since they suck so bad but I don't really need to play with people that bad, it's not fun.

[Pooky]

I don't really need to play with people that bad, it's not fun.

This.

[Rainbow Dash]

gee maybe we should play together regularly then!!!

[Kornman00]

I say fuck 'em. Most of what's been posted already explains why.

[Dwood]

Ban them.

[chrisk123999]

IP Ban them.

FTFY

[n00b1n8R]

If I want to play Halo, I have the option of going on 1.09 and playing on 300 ping servers or going to 1.00 and playing on 33 ping servers.
I really can't agree with what most are saying in this thread. You're saying that if you ever wanted to go play Halo, you'd rather you physically couldn't play it rather then play the game you want to play with people who haven't bought an 8 year old game, dead to its developers?

That's dumb in so many ways wtf

[Pooky]

You're saying that if you ever wanted to go play Halo, you'd rather you physically couldn't play it rather then play the game you want to play with people who haven't bought an 8 year old game, dead to its developers?

I wouldn't want to go play it at all unless I could play with some remotely decent people.

[Sean Aero]

I think most comments made here are very clear about ban them all together, but between lines I'm also reading the following:
Pirates can stay if they can speak english and have skill to provide a good game for the "legal" players.

So this basically means accept those to the community that put up a fair game and are able to talk about it in English.
Correct me if I'm wrong!

[king_nothing_]

The only options are:

1. The game dies
2. The game is kept alive by pirates

It makes no sense to say "I'd rather it be dead." If pirate-friendly = you not playing it, and obviously dead = you not playing it, then what difference does it make to you which one it is? Both options result in you not playing it. Some people enjoy the game regardless of whether or not pirates are playing with them. You want to take that away from them just because you personally don't want to play with pirates?

[n00b1n8R]

I wouldn't want to go play it at all unless I could play with some remotely decent people.
So why not say "I want bad people to be banned" as opposed to "I want pirates to be banned"?
And shit, what about the other people who just want to play some mother fucking Halo?

The best games I've had recently is with people from /v/ who all download a cracked copy and join the OP's server running custom maps. Only time I've seen anybody play good custom maps in like 2 years actually.

E: lol, semi sniped.

[=sw=warlord]

Bullshit, the game is still for sale all over the place.

hey (http://www.game.co.uk/PC-Games-and-Downloads/_/N-1z13mn1/?s=Halo+)

Hey (http://www.gamestation.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/AjaxCatalogSearchView?searchTermScope=&searchType=&catGroupId=&filterTerm=&filterTermOperator=&langId=45&RASchemaType=&catgrpSchemaType=&attributeName1=Catalog_GamestationSalesCatalog_EN_ GS&attributeName2=Catalog_GamestationSalesCatalog_EN_ GS&sType=SimpleSearch&filterType=&resultCatEntryType=2&searchTerm=Halo&catalogId=10202&sortColumn=popular&listerOnly=true&categoryType=&searchTermOperator=&sortTypeStr=DESC&storeId=10651&attributeValue1=4294967236&inStockOnly=false&attributeValue2=4294966918)

Those are two of the main retailers in the UK for games and if they don't even have it on their online stores how do you expect people to find them in the shops?
Quit being such a ignorant fool and realize not every shop is the same as your local town store.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y175/the_dark_warlord/cunt.jpg

[TVTyrant]

Ive seen lots of copies in Oregon...

For like 30 bucks. Too much for a dead game.

[Dwood]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832102230&cm_re=halo_combat_evolved-_-32-102-230-_-Product
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Halo%3A+Combat+Evolved+-+Windows/5797122.p?id=1058188521046&skuId=5797122&st=Halo%20Combat%20Evolved&lp=2&cp=1
http://www.walmart.com/ip/HALO-Combat-Evolved-PC-PC-Games/2376806
http://www.amazon.com/Halo-Combat-Evolved-Xbox/dp/B00005NZ1G/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1307538768&sr=1-1

30 bucks????? Edit: And we've been saying the game's dead since it came out. What's the deal with you people you all have no idea what you're talking about.

[=sw=warlord]

Does Newegg.com ship internationally?
Newegg.com does not currently ship internationally; we only deliver to locations within the United States and to Puerto Rico. (http://www.newegg.com/HelpInfo/FAQDetail.aspx?Module=4)

[Dwood]

Does Newegg.com ship internationally?
Newegg.com does not currently ship internationally; we only deliver to locations within the United States and to Puerto Rico. (http://www.newegg.com/HelpInfo/FAQDetail.aspx?Module=4)

You posted like Britain is the only place pirating. It's not, fyi.

[=sw=warlord]

You posted like Britain is the only place pirating. It's not, fyi.

Pooky posted as though everyone has access to very old games, not every where can.
Hurf durf.

[Pooky]

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7453/baww.jpg

I understand you've got some kind of stick in your anus about me, but those aren't the only online retailers still selling Halo PC

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Halo-Combat-Evolved-PC-CD/dp/B00006IQVI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1307549850&sr=8-2

Get over it.

[=sw=warlord]

When I mention main retailers, i mean legitimate brick and mortar shops.
Last I heard Amazon don't have such and considering amazons reliability in terms of user security in the past.
Do you really expect people to use it for everything?
Considering all you've done in the past weeks is baww over how Halo reach is such a terrible game you are in no position to call me out as such.
:downs:

[Pooky]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832102230&cm_re=halo_combat_evolved-_-32-102-230-_-Product
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Halo%3A+Combat+Evolved+-+Windows/5797122.p?id=1058188521046&skuId=5797122&st=Halo%20Combat%20Evolved&lp=2&cp=1
http://www.walmart.com/ip/HALO-Combat-Evolved-PC-PC-Games/2376806
http://www.amazon.com/Halo-Combat-Evolved-Xbox/dp/B00005NZ1G/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1307538768&sr=1-1

30 bucks????? Edit: And we've been saying the game's dead since it came out. What's the deal with you people you all have no idea what you're talking about.


When I mention main retailers, i mean legitimate brick and mortar shops.
Last I heard Amazon don't have such and considering amazons reliability in terms of user security in the past.
Do you really expect people to use it for everything?
Considering all you've done in the past weeks is baww over how Halo reach is such a terrible game you are in no position to call me out as such.
:downs:

If you're an idiot, you might see some of what I said as BAWWing.

Point is, you're claiming that people don't have access to it. They do. So be quiet.

[{XG}Gijs007]

once I did an experiment and banning most of the Mexican ip address range with gandanur, cause the pirates pissed me of only talking Mexican killing you with the banshees and tanks in noobish ways while you are trying to get some kills and scores...

guess what happened?
I was there with only 5 other people who where also from mexico but where not in that ip address range...

I still enyoy the game most of the time, joining up with my clan on teamspeak and actually using tactics to take down those tank noobs.
and ive been tweaking my game types by reducing the amount of tanks and banshees as well as removing unlimited nades on some maps.

the only thing is these people now also start to join my clan, and some of them are real noobs and annoying oh well you can always kick them out again or try to change them...

beside lots of pirates are also from the middle east cause the game is not being sold their and it does not get shipped if you buy it over ebay cause they only ship to western country's...
its not that they can't afford it, cause they can afford to hire servers from me...

I think we should keep them, you can always ban someone if he's a dick anyway beside legit players can be dicks to...
you see the amount of players increases so does the amount of noobs.
if 1 of the 4 players is a noob on 1.09 and 4 of the 16 are on 1.0 its still the same, but you will notice it more cause there is more of them.

oh and sorry for making another useless reply...

[Pooky]

beside lots of pirates are also from the middle east cause the game is not being sold their and it does not get shipped if you buy it over ebay cause they only ship to western country's...
its not that they can't afford it, cause they can afford to hire servers from me...

That's a good point, but as this is a hypothetical discussion I'm only talking about removing the pirates who are blatantly stealing. Other people might have different ideas.

[Limited]

Warlord you idiot, why did you post links that are the same fucking company. Clearly Americans won't realise that. The game is pretty hard to get yes, but you can still get it.

Fuck the pirates, if they want to play the game go fucking play the demo.

[Phopojijo]

Leave the pirates.

People don't understand piracy, control, and value. If the pirates are not physically costing you anything... let them be... and try to derive value from them. They are your non-paying customers.

[Dwood]

Leave the pirates.

People don't understand piracy, control, and value. If the pirates are not physically costing you anything... let them be... and try to derive value from them. They are your non-paying customers.

Uh this isn't a general piracy thread it's specific to Halo. Seanaero, if i'm not mistaken, is trying to see if he is going to allow servers to run with his stats system if they all have the same hashes.

[Con]

You might argue that they make the game worse, but the game is what you make it. They're not stopping you from playing with who you want and how you want. Pirates gonna pirate. This is an old game and I'm just glad to see people still play it, whether they paid for it or not. I would rather have them than not. There aren't enough active legitimate players left to populate a variety of servers and maps. People play what they want when they want to, so the idea that removing all these pirates will rewind the community's clock back to the golden days is unrealistic. It's just not the same anymore. In short, if you think the community can be better off without pirates then I so no reason why it can't already be done.

[Pooky]

so the idea that removing all these pirates will rewind the community's clock back to the golden days is unrealistic.

Just to be absolutely clear, I'm not saying this or anything remotely like this.

[Dwood]

You might argue that they make the game worse, but the game is what you make it. They're not stopping you from playing with who you want and how you want. Pirates gonna pirate. This is an old game and I'm just glad to see people still play it, whether they paid for it or not. I would rather have them than not. There aren't enough active legitimate players left to populate a variety of servers and maps. People play what they want when they want to, so the idea that removing all these pirates will rewind the community's clock back to the golden days is unrealistic. It's just not the same anymore. In short, if you think the community can be better off without pirates then I so no reason why it can't already be done.

And just so you all know something- even during the 'golden' days, we thought the game was dead.

[king_nothing_]

Just to be absolutely clear, I'm not saying this or anything remotely like this.
No, you're saying that you'd rather have the game be completely dead than have it be kept alive by pirates just so you can achieve a selfish, self-righteous moral victory. Fuck the fact that many people here enjoy playing the game regardless of the means by which their fellow players obtained it, eh? Gotta stamp out those pirates of an eight year old game, whatever the cost! Even if the cost is the death of the game!

That's so much more reasonable.

[Pooky]

That's so much more reasonable.

When did I ever say I was being reasonable?

And anyway I think you're completely misinterpreting what I said. I'm not saying anyone should go on a zealous quest to eliminate pirates from Halo CE. But if someone were to ask me hypothetically, whether I would rather keep them or be rid of them all, I'd prefer them gone. The fact that Halo is primarily played by pirates these days does disgust me and I'm under no obligation to anyone to be reasonable about it.

[Cortexian]

There are more than enough legitimate players in the community to keep the game alive. The problem is that A LOT of legitimate players use the version changer to play with all the 1.00 pirates because there's simply more of them. If they all stopped doing that and just stuck to their legitimate 1.09 version then they would more than likely have an overall better experience IMO.

Who am I to tell people how to play their gaymes though.

[chrisk123999]

Halo CE is dead. Only way to play legit 1.09 players is on Halo PC (UGH).

[TeeKup]

Realworld servers are still up right? I used to play with them, were pretty cool/good players.

[EagerYoungSpaceCadet]

Realworld servers are still up and usually filled with players, + the occasional custom map night.

[Sean Aero]

Seanaero, if i'm not mistaken, is trying to see if he is going to allow servers to run with his stats system if they all have the same hashes.

Basically it comes down to if I will support pirates into the stats tracking system, as in code the system in such a way that even pirates can enjoy the the fact that their scores are tracked. Keep in mind that I won't do it with half the effort, hence my hypothetical question. I either take them in with full support on their tracking problem or I leave them be (as in they can't have stats tracking).

The system would allow for the noobs be separated from the better plays so skill wise I'm still working on some ideas regarding same skilled player servers.
But all in time.

NOTE: All EVENT START TIMES ARE UK TIME:
® Realworld Server Sessions
8:00 - 10:00 pm Sunday - ALL Players [Map Packs]
Every week server is usually packed.

[Cortexian]

I was talking about something similar with Skyline. I was saying that you should make your stats tracking system only work for legitimate players, skyline said it shouldn't be hard to make a system that only tracks legitimate players, even if pirates are allowed to play on the same server.

If anything, that would be an incentive to go buy the game. No stats tracking for pirates.

[Sean Aero]

The only method I can think of right now would be to compare the hashes of players that went into a cd-key checked server and accept those hashes as legit.
Any other method would probably be too much work, but proof me wrong if you have a better way. :)

The current method I'm using is just checking if a hash has been used across multiple client IPs (> 3) see http://halorank.com/pirate.php. As you can see currently a 109 hashes would be banned by the system. Leaving 32k uniques hashes as legit. Also note that the Pirate population based on this system is a little over 10% of all tracked data!!
However after some research just before I started this topic I experienced my self how easy it is to change your hash.
Hence the whole reason I want some feedback to see how you guys feel about pirates.

I'm also thinking of contacting sawnose to request the list of legit hashes that gamespy uses, although i doubt I'll get them just like that.
If I did have that list I would finally be able to put an exact number on the amount of pirates we actually have playing.

[p0lar_bear]

The only method I can think of right now would be to compare the hashes of players that went into a cd-key checked server and accept those hashes as legit.
Any other method would probably be too much work, but proof me wrong if you have a better way. :)

The current method I'm using is just checking if a hash has been used across multiple client IPs (> 3) see http://halorank.com/pirate.php. As you can see currently a 109 hashes would be banned by the system. Leaving 32k uniques hashes as legit. Also note that the Pirate population based on this system is a little over 10% of all tracked data!!
However after some research just before I started this topic I experienced my self how easy it is to change your hash.
Hence the whole reason I want some feedback to see how you guys feel about pirates.

I'm also thinking of contacting sawnose to request the list of legit hashes that gamespy uses, although i doubt I'll get them just like that.
If I did have that list I would finally be able to put an exact number on the amount of pirates we actually have playing.

3 IP addresses? You do realize that ISPs change client IP addresses on a regular basis, right? Not to mention that, even if all IPs were static, I'd be affected anyway; I've been on the move for the past few months and been in three different houses, and I also have CE installed on a laptop that I can bring with me to play at public hotspots.

[Sean Aero]

All right a little more detail once a hash is linked to your account it doesn't care about your IP, basically linking is done through IP.
However for the first check it would be interested in how many IP addresses are used by that single hash.
Now I can easily increase this for let's say to 20 to be very precise but in my understanding between the time that you play on a server and you actually decide to sign up. I don't believe you'll have moved through more than 3 IP addreses. In that special case the system will tell you your a pirate and if not to it will tell you to contact me.
I'll be able to manually confirm your story, but I doubt this will happen often.

The only way you would currently slip into the system is if you use a completly unique hash, never seen in the system before.
This would usually be the case when there is not enough data available. However since 32k hashes have been tracked so far and especially once the app is ran on multiple server I seriously doubt you'll slip by just like that. Unless your a pirate but not as legit player.

[Pooky]

Halo CE is dead. Only way to play legit 1.09 players is on Halo PC (UGH).

Not like there's any real reason to play CE over PC anymore. Either way you're going to be playing nothing but stock maps.

Mostly bloodgulch.

[chrisk123999]

With stat tracking, just have it ignore invalid hashes.

[Dwood]

With stat tracking, just have it ignore invalid hashes.

Define invalid hash, please

[chrisk123999]

Hash's that are generated from the keygen that everyone in 1.00 uses.

[Patrickssj6]

Just make it so that if more that 5 people use the same hash, blacklist it.

My IP gets changed every day. What you could do is ban IP ranges but not recommended.

[p0lar_bear]

Just make it so that if more that 5 people use the same hash, blacklist it.

My IP gets changed every day. What you could do is ban IP ranges but not recommended.

How do we determine how many people are using a hash? Aliases are unreliable since they can be changed at will, and IP addresses also change.

[Kornman00]

You can check if there are multiple instances of the same cd hash in a single server, or if a cd hash is reported in more than one game in a time range (not sure if aero's stat app keeps track of how long the player was in the game when the stats are reported though)

[Cortexian]

Make it so the app doesn't automatically track everyone. Make it so it only tracks people who enter the server and type "!register" or something. Then when they do !register the app can check the gamespy server to see if its valid or not, if it is then it allows registration, if not it returns a message saying that pirates are gay and they should go buy the game for multiplayer.

[Sean Aero]

You can check if there are multiple instances of the same cd hash in a single server, or if a cd hash is reported in more than one game in a time range (not sure if aero's stat app keeps track of how long the player was in the game when the stats are reported though)

I was thinking of this as well, the current system would blacklist a hash within 20 seconds of the same hash occurring. It would be a continues check, which would become more effective when more servers are running the app.
Just to clear things a bit up I'm more of a project leader than an app developer, but until release I won't go into detail on this.


Make it so the app doesn't automatically track everyone. Make it so it only tracks people who enter the server and type "!register" or something. Then when they do !register the app can check the gamespy server to see if its valid or not, if it is then it allows registration, if not it returns a message saying that pirates are gay and they should go buy the game for multiplayer.

The main idea behind the system is to make things automated as much as possible while the user required actions are nearly zero other than signing up and start playing.
The reason I want to avoid this method where people actually have to type words to track their stats is that the majority of gamers are simply too lazy or just don't understand how things work.
Also I want to avoid having half formed post game carnage or statistics overall. Just because I'm tracking a pirate doesn't mean I'll actually show the pirate how he/she performed or at least not with easy navigation compared to a legit key. The true beauty of the system is when your account is linked to your hash, that's when the more fun and interesting stats are demonstrated. So being a pirate really doesn't help.

[chrisk123999]

Or just track it anyway, and just block it from showing up on whatever site your going to use to show that stats.

[=sw=warlord]

There wouldn't be much point using the tracker if you're a pirate anyhow.
From what I understand it makes a profile for the hash so if multiple people are using that same key then the stats won't be reliable and so tracking your stats as a pirate would be useless as any old person could just wreck the stats for the key you use.

[Cortexian]

Some pirates use spoofed and completely fake hashes on "cracked" servers though.

[=sw=warlord]

Some pirates use spoofed and completely fake hashes on "cracked" servers though.

Yeah, your point being?
Multiple using the same hash = invalid stats, it's either or.

[Sean Aero]

Freelancer is just saying that you can create unique fake hashes that are truely unique as in completly non exsisting and the chances of reproducing such a hash are at least 1 out of 36^30. You have more luck winning the lottery than reproduce such a hash (chance wise).

This method is the only way you can currently still slip through the system as a pirate and be tracked accurate, unless all hashes are verified through gamespy.
Hence the whole reason why I started this topic, since it basically comes down to include them all or just ban them all.


I added a poll to this topic, I would like you to consider the question thoroughly and especially take in to account what it could mean for the amount of users still playing online.
As in it will be harder to get a full server and organize tournaments and such. This is not a myth it's a fact. Thanks

[=sw=warlord]

if the chances of creating a new hash are that slim then why does it matter?

[Sean Aero]

since the chance of this newly created pirate hash is used by multiple users is NULL :)
Meaning that pirates without anti-piracy measurements can still be included into the system.
Do keep in mind it will only work for cracked servers

[Patrickssj6]

Korn explained it to me but I already forgot how it went...

so upon connecting to a server...the client sends the CD Key Hash and then server server sends it to GameSpy to compare it to a hash database?

[chrisk123999]

Something along those lines, but on cracked servers the server doesn't even check.

[Rainbow Dash]

There wouldn't be much point using the tracker if you're a pirate anyhow.
From what I understand it makes a profile for the hash so if multiple people are using that same key then the stats won't be reliable and so tracking your stats as a pirate would be useless as any old person could just wreck the stats for the key you use.

And considering not one Mexican pirate I've seen is actually good at the game, if they do track their stats, they'll be rock bottom in no time from any number of these horrible players.

[Skyline]

Do keep in mind it will only work for cracked servers
Not 100% of the time, I tried explaining this to you already.


Yeah, your point being?
Multiple using the same hash = invalid stats, it's either or.
Point being it is possible to spoof someone if you know their hash.

[Patrickssj6]

My idea:

You input E-Mail/Pass/CD Key on a website, in return you get UID. The website registers and calculates the hash based on the CD Key (no spoofing possible here). Upon entering the Halo server the UID is checked with the hash on the server.

[Cortexian]

No way in hell would I enter my CD key on any non-Microsoft run website.

[Sean Aero]

Not 100% of the time, I tried explaining this to you already.
Got my hands on some examples I finally get what you were saying. Thanks for pointing it out.


My idea:
You input E-Mail/Pass/CD Key on a website, in return you get UID. The website registers and calculates the hash based on the CD Key (no spoofing possible here). Upon entering the Halo server the UID is checked with the hash on the server.
Wouldn't it also be possible to let the app do the request to gamespy regardless of the server is cracked or not and just send true or false for a verified player with the stats? This way you can avoid missing data in postgame carnages but still filter the pirates.

I feel like I'm repeating an earlier post here, but I finally understand how spoofing works. (Knowledge is Power)


No way in hell would I enter my CD key on any non-Microsoft run website.
This will always be a problem, the issue of trust! :-3 I too would not feel comfortable to fill in my cd-key at any random site. I understand this concern and would like to avoid such method, so don't worry about it there are more ways to verify someone other than entering a cd-key on a website.

[Julian]

Some people pirate to try out the game, increasing the popularity of it; Anyone who pirates and decides not to cannot be considered "lost profit" cuz they would've never bought it to begin with. Don't have much of a choice, or else 1.00ce will be as barren as 1.09ce.

[Cortexian]

Some people pirate to try out the game, increasing the popularity of it; Anyone who pirates and decides not to cannot be considered "lost profit" cuz they would've never bought it to begin with. Don't have much of a choice, or else 1.00ce will be as barren as 1.09ce.
There's no reason for you to play multiplayer to find out if you like the game or not, pirate it, play the singleplayer, buy it for multiplayer.

[Kornman00]

And lets not forget that there's a fucking demo of this game already which people go around modding :eyesroll:

[Patrickssj6]

No way in hell would I enter my CD key on any non-Microsoft run website.
or we could make the client app to post the information to the website...calculation the hash etc. the person would have to crack the app first

[chrisk123999]

Nobody would download a client app. It would be just as bad Halo anti-cheat.

[Sean Aero]

Nobody would download a client app. It would be just as bad Halo anti-cheat.
As long as you offer the right content, people will use apps :eng101:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olBFdA22-40&t=0m37s&hd=1

Halo anti-cheat ain't that bad, it just needs some devotion.

But downside of a client app is another boundary layer on the ease of use for the player :ohdear:

I think there is nothing wrong with having the server app let anyone join and just send the outcome of the validation with the stats.

[TPBlinD]

there are seldom good mexicans playing, and if they are good.. a quick surveillance on them shows them snapping right at me lol.

[DarkHalo003]

I want pirates gone because they ruin multiplayer continuity with sequel games. Example: FFXIV and maybe FFXI for PC.

[Rainbow Dash]

....

what

[Amit]

....

what

^^^.

How is continuity applicable to Halo (when talking about pirates)? It's already too late.

[Rook]

The only options are:

1. The game dies
2. The game is kept alive by pirates

It makes no sense to say "I'd rather it be dead." If pirate-friendly = you not playing it, and obviously dead = you not playing it, then what difference does it make to you which one it is? Both options result in you not playing it. Some people enjoy the game regardless of whether or not pirates are playing with them. You want to take that away from them just because you personally don't want to play with pirates?

Pretty much what I was thinking. Instead of sitting on a dick and complaining about pirates being in pub servers more game nights could be hosted where it's the modacity community playing in them.

[Arteen]

I wish everyone could play the game, for free, no CD key even needed. I really don't care if people don't pay for this 8 year old game that can't be bought digitally.

[Pooky]

Pretty much what I was thinking. Instead of sitting on a dick and complaining about pirates being in pub servers more game nights could be hosted where it's the modacity community playing in them.

Answering a question when asked = sitting on a dick complaining.

[Cortexian]

Best opinion:

Let them play, don't let them check their stats (and do something to prevent pirates from checking their stats).

[mech]

How do you check stats?

[Cloud]

I say keep em I run a few severs and I allow them in my servers. But if they get banned with a cracked cd that's on them. Also I'd rather play with them then no one at all... You guys ever play halo 2 vista at 2-6am no ones on the games dead. I have a screen shot of 10 people on >.> I wish there was some pirates in h2v... lol the only thing I don't like is 80% of them don't speak English. But at the games 10 years old screw it right.

[TPBlinD]

How do you check stats?
F1.

[Cortexian]

I say keep em I run a few severs and I allow them in my servers. But if they get banned with a cracked cd that's on them. Also I'd rather play with them then no one at all... You guys ever play halo 2 vista at 2-6am no ones on the games dead. I have a screen shot of 10 people on >.> I wish there was some pirates in h2v... lol the only thing I don't like is 80% of them don't speak English. But at the games 10 years old screw it right.
Probably has something to do with the fact that H2V is terrible and no one in their right mind would put in the effort required to crack multiplayer.

[Amit]

F1.

I think he meant checking stats from a period of time.

[Patrickssj6]

I think he meant checking stats from a period of time.
I think he meant irony...which I lol'd @ btw.

[DarkHalo003]

^^^.

How is continuity applicable to Halo (when talking about pirates)? It's already too late.
I wasn't talking paticularly about Halo. But you are right there.

[king_nothing_]

So is there actually going to be a finished, live stat system this time? This is at least like the third one "in development" I can remember hearing about, yet nothing ever came of the others. Is there a thread for this one or anything? Progress reports?

[Sean Aero]

Yes there is! App works, just one more layer of security will be added.
Database is finished and currently receives statistics from the app.
The website is currently being produced at first I was looking for a designer, but eventually I end up doing it myself.
Which is good for my practice but probably a little less for your experience. (Doing my best, probably a future overhaul)
On release you'll be able to enjoy fun ranking, daily and weekly challenges, your overall statistics, leaderboards regarding most kills this day etc, Postgame carnage reports and hopefully a few basic achievements but don't hold me up on that last one.
When(?), I'm working as fast as possible, I want to get it out there this month.

Other thread with some more (old) info (http://www.halomods.com/ips/index.php?/topic/238-wip-halorank/)

[king_nothing_]

K/D ratio is one thing you should definitely include if you haven't already.

Also, the stuff I mentioned in this post: http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?23088-Shame...&p=573960&viewfull=1#post573960

[Sean Aero]

I made the tracking of games within the database in such a way that I can filter per health type/shield settings and gametype.
So all of these stats are no more than a single SQL at this moment. This to avoid people boosting their stats through no shield games. (These are counted separate)

Based on the current system this can be done at this moment.



Player stat page ideas:

CTF win percentage (would have to put requirements in place for games to qualify, such as x number of minutes played in the game, or x% of the game played)
Team slayer win percentage (same as above)
Slayer win percentage
Average rank in slayer / team slayer / CTF
Caps per game average in CTF games
Kills per game average in CTF / in team slayer / in whatever
Assists per game average in " "
Deaths per game average in " "

Also:
Caps per minute (or per hour or per 30 min, since caps/min would be a pretty tiny number)
Kills per minute
Assists per minute
Deaths per minute


But let's layoff further discussing features here until I actually got a decent website to show.
You'll know this is the case when a topic emerges for this project. ;)

[Cortexian]

Just out of curiosity, how are you planning to make this viable in the long-run for the entire community? For example, will the app be compatible with other server-apps from the start? Will server-hosts be able to host their own stats website instead of relying on yours which could potentially go down at some point?

Hopefully we won't be locked into using only your website for stats. If you'd like to keep a global database, perhaps you could make the app send stats to the global database (you) as well as a server-operator-defined stats server that they run themselves.

[Sean Aero]

Just out of curiosity, how are you planning to make this viable in the long-run for the entire community? For example, will the app be compatible with other server-apps from the start? Will server-hosts be able to host their own stats website instead of relying on yours which could potentially go down at some point?

Hopefully we won't be locked into using only your website for stats. If you'd like to keep a global database, perhaps you could make the app send stats to the global database (you) as well as a server-operator-defined stats server that they run themselves.

The app will not support other apps from the start. Since I foresee problems with certain "fun" functions that are offered by other apps. A "deathless player"" fun function or a "speed increase" fun function would basically ruin the credibility of the statistics quite fast. Unless these fun modification are tracked as well.
So a "no" for now, since HaloRank is in start up face, a potential yes for the future.

All stats will be HaloRank exclusive, hold your horses before going in frenzy.
I am considering building an web API for other web developers to use the statistics gathered. This will probably be done after the majority of the website is up and running. (Sharing is caring?)

As for the website potentially going down.
I have quite some bandwidth to use with options to upgrade if necessary, so other than the server
going *BOOM* or me calling quits I doubt the community will be affected.

As for other web developers simultaneously building a stats website with the same raw data provided by the current app.
I don't see the benefit of this for HaloRank, most definitely not in start up face.
Later on it might be fun in order to boost the overall quality of the service. However the data will still be provided through an API.

In general I want to avoid anything which might decrease traffic from the website. Which I believe is normal for anyone in charge of a website, but also because it would go against one of the main ideas behind HaloRank. Having the fun playing and competitive community in one place.

Does this mean the data is too exclusive from start up? Yes, it is. However with the same reason for any website starting up.
With the API a bit later it will overtime become more open.

Does it mean no one else can do it? Create and app today and your good to go tomorrow, I still don't understand why after all this time something similar/better than HaloRank is not already out there.
I had hopes on three different type of stats apps before I decided to go ahead and launch a stats project of my own.

Does it mean I'm a dictator in my own virtual world?
No not at all, a lot is possible in my eyes through debate. Even now I'm working together with other programmers to make HaloRank happen. (Details will be provided upon release.)
Some of you reading this might have received technical questions or requests for opinions in the past.

What's in store for HaloRank in the future?
At some point, probably with the release of the API. I hope to simultaneously create a more open web dev section within HaloRank. This would be for anyone within the community that would like to help out, thinks they can do a better job/improve the website or just has a great idea a new feature for the website. (Credit list in place.)

I hope this answers most of your questions. :eng101:

Now I'm back to coding so I can hopefully provide a demo for CE3.

[Vicky]

Isn't this just a remake of halostats?

[Sean Aero]

I'm not familiar with HaloStats, the current site doesn't do much. Can you provide some details on what it is/was?

[Vicky]

Yeah site seems pretty inactive, probably for some time already. Does pretty much what you'd expect, keep track of players, servers, scores etc.etc.

[Deadman001]

ersonally I hold nothing agianst the pirates, but what I don't get is why they prefer 1.00 over 1.08 they didn't break the pirated keys until 1.09. Not that I used them or anything... I don't think I've reinstalled halo in years I just kept moving it with the reg file which contains it's key from one work machine to another working on my tags every once in a while.

[NullZero]

ersonally I hold nothing agianst the pirates, but what I don't get is why they prefer 1.00 over 1.08 they didn't break the pirated keys until 1.09. Not that I used them or anything... I don't think I've reinstalled halo in years I just kept moving it with the reg file which contains it's key from one work machine to another working on my tags every once in a while.

Try using this app that Ghost made to get your CD key from reg: http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?67-Halo-CD-Key-Recovery-Tool

I should just HaloBoom all 1.00 servers.

[chrisk123999]

You can't. Most of the 1.00 dedicated servers are 1.09 that are modified to run on 1.00.

[nuttyyayap]

I'd make those damn pirates walk the plank.