Upcoming Title Update

[t3h m00kz]

No thread for this?

http://geek.pikimal.com/2011/08/28/halo-reach-title-update-brings-back-classic-magnum-nerfs-armor-lock/ (http://geek.pikimal.com/2011/08/28/halo-reach-title-update-brings-back-classic-magnum-nerfs-armor-lock/)

Armor lock nerf. Reticule bloom optional. 3SK beast machine coming back.

Gonna be a good update.

[Hotrod]

This update will make me very happy, and it shows that 343i knows what they're doing.

[nuttyyayap]

Fucking YES! humansArmour lock always has been, still is, and always will be stupida dumb, overpowered gimmick. Except this update changes this. classic magnum might be cool, unless it's whored. Bloom is stupid too, glad to see it gone.
Looks like i'll be going back to Reach.

[Hotrod]

The classic pistol will only be in the classic playlists, which is awesome so it won't be whored in playlists with the DMR and all that.

[t3h m00kz]

Never had a problem with the bloom, myself, I just sort of delt with it like everybody else who played the game was forced to. I'm neutral on the implementation of a bloom option. Though I think no bloom will even the playing field with H1 pistols.

I'm just glad they realized shipping Anniversary with nothing but MP maps was going to cause nerd rage.. I welcome this TU

[Pooky]

(http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-26-halo-ce-magnum-coming-to-reach)the addition of Halo: Combat Evolved’s iconic magnum to “special, classic playlists”

Neat.


a change so that the armor lock ability only absorbs damage based on your remaining energy, rather than turning you into a glowing ball of invincibility.

Fucking why didn't Bungie think of that.


the ability to disable reticle bloom for weapons

Would be better if it was just permanently disabled for all playlists, but still cool.


a reduction in the duration of the active camouflage armor ability

Good, camo was annoying.


a new inability to block sword attacks with anything but another sword.

YES YES FUCKING GOD YES IT'S ABOUT TIME

Looks like I'll be picking Reach back up. This is how the game should have been from the start.

[p0lar_bear]

Looks like i'll be going back to Reach.

This. Though with all of the TF2, occasional JK2, and non-gaming I've been doing lately I'm probably going to get bullshat by something completely unrelated and ragequit Reach again. %-)

[t3h m00kz]

guess 343 knows whats up

Gonna be hilarious if they do Halo better than Bungie did. They did wind up with some of Bungie's big employees so I wouldn't be suprised

[nuttyyayap]

From this, I can conclude that 343 has a better idea of gameplay design than the Reach team.

[TeeKup]

D ear god yes. I can play reach again.

[Donut]

wait, a new INability to block sword attacks with anything but another sword? as in, that lucky as fuck situation where youd sometimes melee a sword lunge and live is gone?

[p0lar_bear]

wait, a new INability to block sword attacks with anything but another sword? as in, that lucky as fuck situation where youd sometimes melee a sword lunge and live is gone?

No, that one where some chukcklefuck would parry your sword slash with his fist, backpedal, and shoot you in the face is gone.

Seriously, the fucking thing is a one-hit kill. How does a fist magically block it?

[Warsaw]

How does a fist punch hard enough to pulverize flesh in two hits through energy shields and titanium ceramic power-armour?

It's a game. I didn't really have a problem with that ability, though. I am nimble enough to manage to always strike from the side or rear, even without surprise n my side.

[Kornman00]

I think it should be noted, because I don't think some people understand this, these new configurations they're able to do to the game variants won't be global. They'll be used in their "classic" playlist along with whatever they decide, but they're not going to be rolling this out as a global Reach change (eg, BTB won't have it). That, and they can control just how much change there is (eg, they can scale bloom all the back to it's original value for a game variant)

[t3h m00kz]

Indeed. Regular Slayer will likely remain the same for the most part. Though I have to wonder if the Armor Lock nerf and Sword buff will be global.


How does a fist magically block it?

Fists are capable of more than you'd think

2340

[TM_updates]

The title update won't be applied to BTB?
Well if they don't come out with a big team variant for the update I guess I won't have reason to go back to Reach... :allears:

[Futzy]

All of the changes in the TU are new megalo hooks. They can apply them to whatever spectrum of gametypes and playlists they want. Some options are backend only, like the 0-100% bloom scale. The Beta hoppers are going to be up in early October after the TU comes out (according to what has been said so far) at the end of September. There they will be testing out the changes on the current maps and introducing some of the new gametype changes.

Based on community reaction certain changes will be rolled out into various playlists. Then when CEA comes out there will be dedicated classic playlists featuring the classic gametypes and classic versions of maps alongside playlists that have the updated versions of the classic maps with new pathing, weapons, and AAs.

[supersniper]

i never understood why people with 4gb harddrives couldn't play online co-op...

[jcap]

Too late.


the armor lock ability only absorbs damage based on your remaining energy
Yeah, I've said that's how it should have been done from the beginning. It should be enough to deflect a single rocket or a close range hammer melee, but not enough to make you invulnerable from any attack for several seconds.

[Limited]

I love all the update features apart from the bloom. How can people not time their damn shots? Spamming the trigger should not end in success. Slow and steady win the race :D

So the reason this is an issue with the TU is because if I want to play on a "well populated" playlist that has the new Pistol, Armour Lock, melee fix etc, I will have to put up with having little or no bloom. Which sucks.

[Arteen]

Too late.


Yeah, I've said that's how it should have been done from the beginning. It should be enough to deflect a single rocket or a close range hammer melee, but not enough to make you invulnerable from any attack for several seconds.
Armor lock should either:

Not exist
Only work in very short bursts (time it right and you can block a rocket or incoming vehicle, but you can't use it as a stall tactic)
Leave you momentarily vulnerable after you exit (no holding it down for the full duration, letting your shileds recharge, and then hopping behind cover as soon as it deactivates)
Not exist

1 or 4 are the best options, but 2 or 3 would at least be tolerable.

[p0lar_bear]

How does a fist punch hard enough to pulverize flesh in two hits through energy shields and titanium ceramic power-armour? It's a game.

I'm not questioning vs. reality, I'm questioning the counter-intuitiveness of it. The sword has always been a (limited use since Halo 3) fuck-you stick that feels like it was meant to roll some heads and limbs. Distance is the only true counter to the sword; if you're within distance (which probably needs to be reduced some), pressing that button should speed you at your target doing 80 miles per hour for a satisfying kill, not a 50/50 chance to be cockteased and then shot in the face because your victim was flailing their arms around like a stereotypical gay man in a slap fight.

[=sw=warlord]

Or how about having the sword not have melee lunge at all?
It's a one hit kill weapon as it is, the distance you can be from the enemy should be enough to serve it as it is without having the ability to fly at the speed of light at your opponent.

[Hotrod]

The Sword was fine in Halo 3, I see no reason why they decided to add in any way to block it without having another sword. After looking at the changes being made in this update, I'm starting to wonder what the hell Bungie was thinking when they made this game...

[t3h m00kz]

They knew what the players wanted better than they did obviously.

[Arteen]

The title update won't be applied to BTB?
Well if they don't come out with a big team variant for the update I guess I won't have reason to go back to Reach... :allears:
Between the long-range, pinpoint accuracy of the DMR and NR, the anti-vehicle sniper rifle, the broken-as-hell banshee, the awful vehicle health system, and Hemorrhage, BTB can't be salvaged,

[t3h m00kz]

Permit me to disagree and appreciate the fact that I can actually kill vehicles in reach with something other than a rocket launcher.

[Arteen]

The greater variety of weapons that can do damage to vehicles isn't the problem. That's actually great. The issue is that the spartan laser was the absolute worst aspect of BTB in Halo 3, and now the sniper rifle is basically a mini-splaser. Terrible idea.

Also, damaged vehicles are basically deathtraps, instead of the damage being mostly aesthetic. Combine that with the underpowered chaingun and useless missiles, the warthog's just a novelty vehicle in this game.

[t3h m00kz]

I was never big on vehicles myself, so I never noticed. I'm the profag everybody hates who sits around with sniper rifles and dmrs and picks people off from the corners of the map.

[Kornman00]

I think we should all look at the bigger picture at hand:








http://www.modacity.net/forums/images/customavatars/avatar922_41.gif (http://www.modacity.net/forums/member.php?922-t3h-m00kz)


'da fuck (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrPyWDTTWxc)?

[t3h m00kz]

:V

[Pooky]

It's a game.

We all know it's a game, that doesn't change the fact that having your searing hot beam of light that you went to great effort to aquire blocked by someone's fist is unsatisfying and obnoxious. The fact that they can then back off and headshot you while you're virtually helpless only adds to it.


I love all the update features apart from the bloom. How can people not time their damn shots? Spamming the trigger should not end in success. Slow and steady win the race :D

We've already been over this before in other threads so let's just say bloom detracts significantly from the skill factor rather than adding to it.


Armor lock should either:

Not exist
Not exist

:like:

[Warsaw]

I love all the update features apart from the bloom. How can people not time their damn shots? Spamming the trigger should not end in success. Slow and steady win the race :D

It does. Almost every time I get into a 1v1 with someone and we are both sporting DMRs, I win because I am not firing as fast as I can. If they kill me, it's by the seat of their pants with less shots fired by me, but fired much more accurately. That, or I pull out the pistol and school them in sidearm use. :D

@Pooky: I know it's obnoxious, but please, tell me what isn't in Halo? Destructible vehicles are obnoxious, all the useful guns being almost treated like power weapons is onoxious, starting with DMRs is obnoxious, armour abilities are obnoxious, and the list goes on. Using the sword is as much about timing and positioning as it is about it being a power weapon; you aren't supposed to be able to just sprint around the map slaughtering people.

[t3h m00kz]

You forgot to add competitive gaming in general to that list

and guns. and the ability to kill people. and scores. and k/d ratio on the site.

in fact in order to make halo obnoxious free we might as well not play. otherwise it's like going to a restraunt, saying the food sucks, and then we keep going back despite the fact that the food tastes like leaky horse ass

[DarkHalo003]

Armor Lock is only acceptable in BTB playlists. Anywhere else makes it stupid.

[=sw=warlord]

Armor Lock is only acceptable in BTB playlists. Anywhere else makes it stupid.
Elite slayer?
Stick grenade spam.

[Pooky]

@Pooky: I know it's obnoxious, but please, tell me what isn't in Halo? Destructible vehicles are obnoxious, all the useful guns being almost treated like power weapons is onoxious, starting with DMRs is obnoxious, armour abilities are obnoxious, and the list goes on. Using the sword is as much about timing and positioning as it is about it being a power weapon; you aren't supposed to be able to just sprint around the map slaughtering people.


You forgot to add competitive gaming in general to that list

and guns. and the ability to kill people. and scores. and k/d ratio on the site.

in fact in order to make halo obnoxious free we might as well not play. otherwise it's like going to a restraunt, saying the food sucks, and then we keep going back despite the fact that the food tastes like leaky horse ass

This is the dumbest counter argument I've ever heard for anything. Why would you even play Halo if you find everything obnoxious.

[t3h m00kz]

I was being sarcastic. I deal with the shit in the game like everybody else who decides to play it. If everyone has to deal with bloom, a broken sword and an OP armor lock then it's an even playing field and I'm not getting jewed out of shit.

[Pooky]

And you don't think the game would be more fun if we didn't have to deal with those things?

[t3h m00kz]

I've never had a problem with them. I pace my shots, I never touch sword, and I whore armor lock.

[Warsaw]

Why would you even play Halo if you find everything obnoxious.

Funny thing: I don't play Halo [2, 3, ODST, Reach]. :v: Isn't Reach being totally obnoxious the entire reason we are complaining?

That said, nothing was obnoxious in the first game. Not one thing was obnoxious. Overpowered, maybe. Obnoxious, no.

[Pooky]

Eh, grenade spamming got on my nerves but other than that nothing really was.


e:

Isn't Reach being totally obnoxious the entire reason we are complaining?

Well yeah but that isn't what you said


@Pooky: I know it's obnoxious, but please, tell me what isn't in Halo?

[t3h m00kz]

Funny thing: I don't play Halo [2, 3, ODST, Reach]. :v: Isn't Reach being totally obnoxious the entire reason we are complaining?

That said, nothing was obnoxious in the first game. Not one thing was obnoxious. Overpowered, maybe. Obnoxious, no.

You should try playing Xbox Connect sometime.

[p0lar_bear]

http://www.modacity.net/forums/images/customavatars/avatar922_41.gif (http://www.modacity.net/forums/member.php?922-t3h-m00kz)

'da fuck (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrPyWDTTWxc)?
http://www.modacity.net/forums/images/customavatars/avatar111_48.gif

[t3h m00kz]

OH SH-

[Warsaw]

Eh, grenade spamming got on my nerves but other than that nothing really was.


e:


Well yeah but that isn't what you said

My b. Was implying it with the list of other obnoxious things, but I should have been specific.

[Tnnaas]

Wishing they would put target leading back into the sniper rifle. That would knock about half of the Reach community down a couple of pegs.

[Pooky]

I don't know what they did to the Sniper, but it feels like it has about 60x more auto aim compared to Halo 3. I was perfectly fine with the Sniper in 3, but now it's so easy to use it's retarded. Almost on the level of the auto-aim cannon from Halo 2.

[nuttyyayap]

Whadda you mean? I found the Reach sniper the hardest to use.

[Warsaw]

I don't know what they did to the Sniper, but it feels like it has about 60x more auto aim compared to Halo 3. I was perfectly fine with the Sniper in 3, but now it's so easy to use it's retarded. Almost on the level of the auto-aim cannon from Halo 2.

While I agree it needs to be fixed, I've found the sniper rifles insanely hard to use since the first game. I don't know what it is. I mean, it's not the recoil; I'm having a hard time with just aiming it for that first shot. They also all sound squishy, which throws me. Audio plays a huge part in my game performance. So do weapon origins.

[Spartan094]

Whadda you mean? I found the Reach sniper the hardest to use.
Urgh, reach's sniper is so easy I kept getting head shots easy in the beta and retail, and after doing that a lot I tried going back to sniping in halo 3 and I got really bad thanks to Reach.

[t3h m00kz]

While I agree it needs to be fixed, I've found the sniper rifles insanely hard to use since the first game. I don't know what it is. I mean, it's not the recoil; I'm having a hard time with just aiming it for that first shot. They also all sound squishy, which throws me. Audio plays a huge part in my game performance. So do weapon origins.

5x zoom and less auto aim range does that. 5x as opposed to 2x gives you less of an auto aim angle when scoped, and therefore, makes it more of a bitch

[jcap]

I thought the sniper rife in Reach was the easiest out of all the games. I could get headshots from across the map despite completely missing players.

[Warsaw]

5x zoom and less auto aim range does that. 5x as opposed to 2x gives you less of an auto aim angle when scoped, and therefore, makes it more of a bitch

Really now? I mean, the feedback from the game seems like it's actively pushing my reticle off-target, but I'll take your word for it.

[Arteen]

I could only ever snipe in Halo 2. I suck with it in both Halo 3 and Reach, and never could figure it out (or bothered to) on PC.

[Warsaw]

PC took a LOT of skill. You had to know what the latency was and know how far to lead your shots relative to that latency, target direction, and speed. It wasn't easy, but once you got it into muscle memory you were nigh unstoppable.

[leorimolo]

meh the fact you had to calculate lead on snipers made me not want to ever play hce again.

[Warsaw]

wat.

That's what made it so addicting; knowing you were boss because you could do reliably what 80% of the players could not. And if you couldn't, learning how to so you could school that asshat who could was a great motivator.

Hit-scan is boring. If I want to mindlessly point and click, I'll go play Minesweeper.

[ejburke]

They want the sniper rifles to be weapons anyone can use intuitively, but that was just not fun being on the wrong end of a SR in Reach.

I haven't played PC/CE in years, but you could juke, couldn't you? You could almost instantly go from strafing right to strafing left thanks to our friend the keyboard. With a stick, you decelerate and come to a complete stop when you try to do that.

If they took the Halo 3 SR, made it hitscan, and added in a damn hit sound so that when the sight recoils, you know what the Hell just happened and to help train people with an aural cue so that they can get better, faster. And if they gave us some evasion options that were a standard part of the game controls and not armor ability gimmicks, I would be excited to see that scenario at work.

[t3h m00kz]

A hitsound in halo 3? Gosh would have been too good of an idea.

[Pooky]

Getting hits in Halo 3 wasn't the problem. The problem is all the weapons are so finicky that even getting a solid hit doesn't always help you (SHOTGUN).

[t3h m00kz]

That and the fact that you can get killed before your shots register, which made shotgun fights bullshit. Host advantage was ridiculous until Reach. I'm glad they were smart enough to finally add two-way kills. Seems like it wouldn't have been hard to have coded in the first place, considering games like Quake 3 had shit like that which worked perfectly

[Kornman00]

That's what made it so addicting; knowing you were boss because you could do reliably what 80% of the players could not. And if you couldn't, learning how to so you could school that asshat who could was a great motivator.

Funny, the same could be said about bloom and timing your shots!

[=sw=warlord]

And Armor Lock.
Timing your usage based upon grenades and heavy weapons.

[Kornman00]

I would have mentioned armor lock too, but that's like shouting "whooooo, Obamamcare!" in a crowd full of Tea Partiers, and I didn't feel like watching a blood bath unfold.

[Tnnaas]

... but that's like shouting "whooooo, Obamamcare!" in a crowd full of Tea Partiers...
You've inspired me to do such an act.

Anyways, I have to bitch about vehicles for a minute.
I'm hating the way Sage set this shit up.
The Revenant shouldn't exist. It is extremely unbalanced and should have been replaced by the Spectre from Halo 2. Make it like the Warthog and have additional varients. You've got the plamsa cannon on the back and all you'd need is a fuel rod gun and some sort of high-heat weapon like the sentinel beam. I'd fund that.

Another thing: I have disliked the tanks since Halo 3. They should've done what they did with the Banshee in Reach and let the driver control both the main weapon and auxillery weapon seperately by pressing the 'Y' button. Making the primary rounds cycle a little longer (more like the Halo: CE Scorpion) would've also added to the balance. Overheating machine guns/plasma cannons could be kept.

The Falcon on the other hand is so unreliable during multiplayer. There is always that one idiot that uses it like an unlocked car and drives off with it for a joy-ride rather than using it as the damn bus it was meant to be. Five seats would've been helpful, but meh.

[Kornman00]

lmao, 5 seats = killing spree in one splaser! But I agree. I also wish they would have at least put the GL Falcon variant in the Forge palette...along with civie vehicles. For Customs and machinima.

For the tank tho, I prefer the separation (since the Wraith does the same thing). Plus, it makes it easier to creep up on that bitch when there's no gunner. It's easy to dodge tank fire (since it's a slower cadence), but FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUU- when it comes to a stream of .50cal in your face.

[Pooky]

Funny, the same could be said about bloom and timing your shots!

Yeah, except timing your shots is easy, anyone can do it, and 'timing is hard' isn't why everyone hates the DMR.

GG.

[=sw=warlord]

Yeah, except timing your shots is easy, anyone can do it, and 'timing is hard' isn't why everyone hates the DMR.

GG.
And yet people still seem to have troubles timing their shots.
Everyone hates the DMR because it isn't their scalpel BR from Halo 2, the DMR was near perfect in the Beta and then the "competitive" crowd complained because it wasn't their all round use weapon.

[Arteen]

Reach really needs a BR/carbine-like weapon as the primary spawn weapon instead of the DMR. As in, a proper medium-range weapon. BTB is often so miserable because everyone spawns with a long-range gun. I can't image how terrible a map like Standoff would be in Reach.

[Champ]

Yeah, except timing your shots is easy, anyone can do it, and 'timing is hard' isn't why everyone hates the DMR.

GG.
Leading your shots wasn't hard either, anyone can do that too.

[t3h m00kz]

Reach really needs a BR/carbine-like weapon as the primary spawn weapon instead of the DMR. As in, a proper medium-range weapon. BTB is often so miserable because everyone spawns with a long-range gun. I can't image how terrible a map like Standoff would be in Reach.

Needle rifle is my preferred weapon tbh. Less recoil, faster shots. Its like an m16 to AK comparison

But halo 1 was pretty much the same way, if you recall. Everyone spawned with a rediculous weapon. Difference being halo pc is filled with twelve year olds who have never played an fps in their lives, and therefore makes it less frustrating than a profag wankfest.

[Arteen]

Also no autoaim and the lag made the pistol 12sk.

[Pooky]

But halo 1 was pretty much the same way, if you recall. Everyone spawned with a rediculous weapon. Difference being halo pc is filled with twelve year olds who have never played an fps in their lives, and therefore makes it less frustrating than a profag wankfest.

The difference between the Pistol and the DMR is where the Pistol has a clearly limited maximum range, the DMR does not (within the bounds of any of the official maps). Also while the Pistol requires actual aim to use at close range, with the DMR you can just spam and follow up with an auto aiming super lunging homing melee attack.


Leading your shots wasn't hard either, anyone can do that too.

I didn't say it was super hard. It's a whole lot harder than 'timing' DMR shots though.

[Warsaw]

Funny, the same could be said about bloom and timing your shots!

I've never complained about bloom and shot timing. That's everyone else. I don't honestly care if they retain it or get rid of it. That said, the game doesn't accurately (lol) reflect the skill required to effectively use the bloom mechanic anyways because of terrible maps and other mechanics, so it's a moot point.

As for Armour Lock...well...I don't get mad at it. I just put on this face when I get killed by it:

:|

[t3h m00kz]

I dont know about you guys but my life's value is determined by my skill at vidja.

[Pooky]

Pretty sure that's just you.

[Kornman00]

porn

[TeeKup]

No no Korn, go to the Donors Lounge for that.

[Kornman00]

I forgot that part of the site even existed

[t3h m00kz]

and how much porn I can collect.

If I'm not furiously ejaculating while out BRing a level 50 and slapping it in my montage my life is empty and dull.

Who needs real life accomplishments anyway

[p0lar_bear]

I'm still confused over exactly why people are so pissed at reticle bloom; to me, reticle bloom is a cosmetic feature that gives an indication of how accurate my next shot is, but I'm reading it as the whole accuracy system which has been in place since Halo 1.

[DarkHalo003]

I'm still confused over exactly why people are so pissed at reticle bloom; to me, reticle bloom is a cosmetic feature that gives an indication of how accurate my next shot is, but I'm reading it as the whole accuracy system which has been in place since Halo 1.
It only pisses people off in terms of the DMR. That's the funny thing. Everyone else is okay with it for almost everything else (except maybe the pistol and NR). Apparently people get butthurt over their weapons not all being pin-point (and I'm talking the Error is 0 and the Projectile Error is 0 by 0). And people wonder why I prefer an AR or Pistol over the DMR.

[Kornman00]

I'm still confused over exactly why people are so pissed at reticle bloom; to me, reticle bloom is a cosmetic feature that gives an indication of how accurate my next shot is, but I'm reading it as the whole accuracy system which has been in place since Halo 1.
That's exactly what it is, a cosmetic feature to visually show your cone of error. That shit has been there since the beginning :|

[Donut]

this ^ basically. somebody said that doesnt happen in halo 1? because it does. look at the assault rifle with fully auto vs pacing your shots in small bursts. i cant say the same for halo 2 or 3, but i feel like i remember shots becoming less accurate with the plasma rifle in halo 2. i think there was a SMALL error cone for sustained fire in halo 3, but it was hardly noticeable. somebody made an auto fire controller and used it with the AR, and apparently it was more accurate, but not by much.

the counter argument iv been hearing is that on the DMR it leads to lucky spam headshots due to the randomness of the shot if you dont let the bloom settle. as far as i know, thats the complaint. its never happened to me, either by me or no me, so i cant really judge. i feel like if you just pace your shots from the getgo in a shootout, you can land your 4 shots before the other guy can spam and get a lucky headshot. the delay is what? 3/10 of a second? the way iv been playing, you should be able to get 4 accurate shots off while they get off 5 or 6 of them, with the last 4 being pretty inaccurate due to bloom.
i will say that i would enjoy this game a lot less if it became halo 3 style fire-as-fast-as-you-can-with-no-accuracy-error. that attracts the pro wannabes, and that ruins the game experience every time for me. it seems like if randomness is the issue, then the shotgun should be a huge complaint, because sometimes it kills at a certain distance, and sometimes it misses completely at that same distance or just a little bit further. the shotgun doesnt have bloom, btw.

[=sw=warlord]

I miss seeing the Bloom on the shotgun.
It was one of the most appropriate weapons to have Bloom on because you could see when your shot was aligned again for another shot.

[ejburke]

Halo 1 had error acceleration, but it was primarily confined to the full auto weapons. The pistol and sniper rifle shot true, but they could only be fired at a prescribed rate, so if somebody shoots first, he's automatically ahead of the damage curve for the rest of the exchange. They didn't like that, so with Reach they allow you to fire headshot weapons at faster rates, with the trade-off being error acceleration that was not really a factor for those types of weapons in previous Halo games. You simply weren't allowed to shoot them fast enough for it to matter.

[Kornman00]

Basically they made it less 'point-and-click' and thus requires more skill. Skill about how to use a fucking tool. Just as you wouldn't rush into an actual fucking field with full-auto selected on an M4 (forget if it only has burst or FA) or whatever trying to shoot a dipshit extremist. The same thing that happens in HPC where you have to know how to adjust for lag.

Of course, I can hear someone moaning about hit-scan. They can build themselves a bridge over the river they're crying. It's a game. Network latency happens. Here's an application (http://www.marines.com/rmi) for the Marines if you want real-life.

[ejburke]

If I understand the argument, it's not really about skill, it's about luck being introduced into the equation. Someone can be perfectly disciplined in their use of a DMR and lose to some yahoo who is rapidly squeezing off shots and blooming his reticle to encompass the entire screen. At that point, it becomes a dice roll whether or not those shots land. If they DO land, then the guy using "skill" feels screwed and the guy spamming shots thinks he's playing the game correctly, tries the same thing again and gets pissed off that it doesn't always work. Ultimately, nobody is happy.

People intuitively understand that full auto weapons have accuracy penalties for laying on the trigger. Always have, always will. The debate centers around the precision weapons.

I don't have strong feelings one way or the other, I just think it's an interesting discussion.

[=sw=warlord]

In short people think precision weapons and think they'll be precise each and every shot then then rage because they're not.

[Donut]

the counter argument iv been hearing is that on the DMR it leads to lucky spam headshots due to the randomness of the shot if you dont let the bloom settle. as far as i know, thats the complaint. its never happened to me, either by me or to me, so i cant really judge. i feel like if you just pace your shots from the getgo in a shootout, you can land your 4 shots before the other guy can spam and get a lucky headshot. the delay is what? 3/10 of a second? the way iv been playing, you should be able to get 4 accurate shots off while they get off 5 or 6 of them, with the last 4 being pretty inaccurate due to bloom.

feel like i should pull this bit out of my previous post. of course bullet magnetism and auto aim gets pulled into it too, but the guy shooting slow also has that

[ejburke]

Sorry, didn't read that part of your post. Apologies for restating almost exactly what you already said. I agree that it's questionable how valid a complaint it really is.

[Pooky]

The difference between the Pistol and the DMR is where the Pistol has a clearly limited maximum range, the DMR does not (within the bounds of any of the official maps). Also while the Pistol requires actual aim to use at close range, with the DMR you can just spam and follow up with an auto aiming super lunging homing melee attack.

This is my complaint with the DMR/NR. The DMR's retarded range prevents open maps from having any sort of flow, while its spammability up close makes it not only obnoxious but less skilled to use compared to previous mid-range weapons in the series. Note that 'spam' doesn't have to mean firing as fast as possible. Just firing slightly faster than normal is enough to make it annoying. A lot of Reach proponents claim to hate the BR from Halo 3. Imagine how much more obnoxious it would be with unlimited range and the ability to fire FASTER at close range.

[Arteen]

I'm still confused over exactly why people are so pissed at reticle bloom; to me, reticle bloom is a cosmetic feature that gives an indication of how accurate my next shot is, but I'm reading it as the whole accuracy system which has been in place since Halo 1.
Except no, not really, no. Rate of fire didn't affect the accuracy of precision weapons in previous games. Which is a huge difference. It might be a feature in the game's engine, but not in the actual gameplay.

[t3h m00kz]

How's the DMR any different from any FPS that uses the Counter Strike style spread system is what I don't understand. It's even worse in those games because the spread is so much more intense and random than the DMR ever would be

Get their shields down with spam, pace the headshot. Works pretty much every time in 1 on 1s. Bumper jumper also helps. At the end of the day the more consistent person will be on top.

[Donut]

Except no, not really, no. Rate of fire didn't affect the accuracy of precision weapons in previous games. Which is a huge difference. It might be a feature in the game's engine, but not in the actual gameplay.
it did in halo 1 with the pistol if you held down click, but there was literally no negative effect to just releasing click between shots, so the weapon's accuracy didnt seem to be affected while firing at full speed. i gather the spread was an intended game element though.

[Pooky]

Maybe originally, but since they didn't keep that effect in Halo 2 or 3 I think that idea was pretty well trashed.

[Arteen]

The issue I have with bloom is that it makes the DMR and the pistol needlessly awkward and uncomfortable to use. Not only does the pistol already have an absurdly small clip size and awful range, but it gets grossly inaccurate after only shot, so you always have to fire below its maximum rate of fire for it to be effective at any range beyond point-blank. It makes the weapon unsatisfying and uncomfortable to use, and this is coming from someone with two pistol kills for each pistol death.

The DMR has the same issue to a lesser extent, but I've got no problem with the bloom on the needle rifle.

[Pooky]

How's the DMR any different from any FPS that uses the Counter Strike style spread system is what I don't understand. It's even worse in those games because the spread is so much more intense and random than the DMR ever would be

Get their shields down with spam, pace the headshot. Works pretty much every time in 1 on 1s. Bumper jumper also helps. At the end of the day the more consistent person will be on top.

Why would something which works for Counter Strike automatically work for Halo? As stated it's awkward, obnoxious, and plain unnecessary.

[t3h m00kz]

>awkward, obnoxious, unecessary

opinions, and I disagree.

Whatever though. Guess we all have the right to disagree here.

Guess we'll see how the community reacts when everyone's getting instant head shots all the time spamming the shit out of the trigger when no bloom comes into play. And when the pistol comes back and everyone's dying from some guy camping on top of the map. Going to predict nobody's going to bitch any less, considering it's not going to be like Halo 1 LAN where everybody's playing to have a good time and not be assholes, or PC where you've got twelve year olds knocking warthogs around with plasma grenades and roleplaying McDonalds in Chronopolis.

[PlasbianX]

>awkward, obnoxious, unecessary

opinions, and I disagree.

Whatever though. Guess we all have the right to disagree here.

Guess we'll see how the community reacts when everyone's getting instant head shots all the time spamming the shit out of the trigger when no bloom comes into play. And when the pistol comes back and everyone's dying from some guy camping on top of the map. Going to predict nobody's going to bitch any less, considering it's not going to be like Halo 1 LAN where everybody's playing to have a good time and not be assholes, or PC where you've got twelve year olds knocking warthogs around with plasma grenades and roleplaying McDonalds in Chronopolis.

Community probably wont react much because its not a global change; its going to be specific to certain playlists.

[t3h m00kz]

perhaps a bad choice of words on my part

I predict the amount of relevant frustration had while playing CEA in comparison to standard Reach probably won't be much less, if any at all.

Make more sense?

[Pooky]

bloom reduces spam

No, it really doesn't and I don't know why people think that. If anything bloom increases the amount of spam in specific situations while leaving it the same overall.

You're welcome to your opinion but if you honestly find Reach's mechanics fun I don't know how you can consider yourself a 'profag'. Reach is a game specifically designed so any moron can wade in, get kills, and have fun. It does this by including lots of random elements like bloom and gameplay crutches like the melee lunge. It's fine if all you want to do is goof off online, but there's a reason MLG didn't want to move to it.

[Arteen]

Guess we'll see how the community reacts when everyone's getting instant head shots all the time spamming the shit out of the trigger when no bloom comes into play.
The problem with the NR and DMR isn't that they have bloom, but that their default accuracy is 100%, and that they are the default spawn weapons. Ideally, default starting weapon would be a specifically medium-range weapon like the BR or carbine, with the DMR and NR as specialty pick-up weapons. At least on larger maps.

[=sw=warlord]

Here's an idea:
Increase Bloom, Remove bullet magnetism all together.
That way, any stray shots stay stray and any aimed shots are rewarded.
You'll still get that random headshot but by the time that happens you should have aimed your shots well enough to beat the odds.

[t3h m00kz]

No, it really doesn't and I don't know why people think that. If anything bloom increases the amount of spam in specific situations while leaving it the same overall.

You're welcome to your opinion but if you honestly find Reach's mechanics fun I don't know how you can consider yourself a 'profag'. Reach is a game specifically designed so any moron can wade in, get kills, and have fun. It does this by including lots of random elements like bloom and gameplay crutches like the melee lunge. It's fine if all you want to do is goof off online, but there's a reason MLG didn't want to move to it.

despite what you may believe I'm not a profag and I actually hate the MLG community, the idea of being a professional gamer as a career and source of income is laughable. I play games to chill the fuck out, I leave the stress for my job. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy competitive gameplay and won't do what I can to win.

[jcap]

Here's an idea:
Increase Bloom, Remove bullet magnetism all together.
That way, any stray shots stay stray and any aimed shots are rewarded.
You'll still get that random headshot but by the time that happens you should have aimed your shots well enough to beat the odds.
Yeah, that. Exactly that.

[p0lar_bear]

Except no, not really, no. Rate of fire didn't affect the accuracy of precision weapons in previous games. Which is a huge difference. It might be a feature in the game's engine, but not in the actual gameplay.

I suppose that makes sense then. Halo never really has been about consciously exploiting an accuracy system to win.

[Pooky]

The problem with the NR and DMR isn't that they have bloom, but that their default accuracy is 100%, and that they are the default spawn weapons. Ideally, default starting weapon would be a specifically medium-range weapon like the BR or carbine, with the DMR and NR as specialty pick-up weapons. At least on larger maps.

And that they have practically infinite range, and instant hits.


Here's an idea:
Increase Bloom, Remove bullet magnetism all together.
That way, any stray shots stay stray and any aimed shots are rewarded.
You'll still get that random headshot but by the time that happens you should have aimed your shots well enough to beat the odds.

I'd take this over the current system.


despite what you may believe I'm not a profag and I actually hate the MLG community, the idea of being a professional gamer as a career and source of income is laughable. I play games to chill the fuck out, I leave the stress for my job. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy competitive gameplay and won't do what I can to win.

You called yourself that, I didn't. Like I said, Reach is fine as a casual FPS but trying to defend it as a serious competitive shooter is ridiculous.

[t3h m00kz]

I suppose my sarcasm wasn't blatant enough.

What's different than two competetive players spamming the DMR at each other than two MLG COD players hip-firing their sniper rifles at each other and calling hitting random headshots skill?

wigPku1lhQ4

this is the same shit.

by this logic it sounds to me like the only game worthy of being called competetive would be instagib in Quake. no bloom, no random hits, no bullshit. Everyone has the same weapon, and has equal opportunities. best aim wins. sure it might get boring after the fifteenth thousand kill but who gives a shit right, it's pure skill. wait, what? Leading? oh, unreal instagib then.

You want a game that caters to noobs? Go play Mario Kart Wii. You'd gladly take reach over that anyday.

I'm not saying the spread doesn't add randomization to the game. But honestly, there are always going to be random aspects to any game you play. I've personally never had a problem with the DMR, no moreso than the fact that I might get matched up with idiots, no moreso than people spamming nades up a lift, no moreso than people sweeping their BR reticules over my head hoping one of their three shots will be a headshot.

[Pooky]

a mechanic which works in other games automatically works in Halo too

:|

Furthermore, go play Halo PC. Play it for a while until you get used to it again. Notice how it doesn't have any of the things you described, and people still consider it a skill-based game.

[t3h m00kz]

I give no factual reason as to why this feature is acceptable for every other shooter in the world but not Halo aside from the randomization aspect that it adds to every other shooter in the world now being in Halo, even though it's always been in the series to different extents

:|||||


Furthermore, go play Halo PC. Play it for a while until you get used to it again. Notice how it doesn't have any of the things you described, and people still consider it a skill-based game.

Game's too easy at this point. Half the players are too busy jacking each other off and stunting to fight back. Almost always in the top. Started playing with a controller, to even the playing field, and still up there.

[Pooky]

:|||||

We're not talking about other games, we're talking about Halo. And I've given plenty, plenty of reasons why I don't think it works. There's no such fucking thing as a 'factual' reason when discussing balance in a video game.

[TeeKup]

Wait, what randomization is there to a weapon that has Hit-scan?

[Pooky]

Because at point blank range you can spam it to get some lucky kills.

Reposting this for the benefit of people who don't read. In fact I might as well sig my entire opinion on the DMR since I keep having to re-state it so much.


teekup: the reticule bloom is pointless because the gun is fucking hitscan
YEAH LET'S PLAY JEDI KNIGHT 2: all the reticle bloom does is add a little more randomness at point blank range
YEAH LET'S PLAY JEDI KNIGHT 2: that's not even the main complaint I have with the DMR, which I've highlighted at least 10 times, but for some reason everyone just harps on the bloom thing

[=sw=warlord]

Because at point blank range you can spam it to get some lucky kills.



...
You realize that at point blank you could spam ANY weapon to get lucky kills.
What you're looking for here is a weapon that makes the bullets go around the enemy at point blank rather than heading straight and true.
Honestly, this argument is getting more stupid the further it goes, I would spam the AR at point blank range and "get a lucky" kill because of how close i am.
The only solution here that would be approved by either side is to ramp the bloom to stupid proportions, remove the bullet magnetism and make the bloom move quicker so it takes the same time to get your aim right again whilst at the same time any trigger press faster than a timed shot would stray off else where.


As it stands, all I'm hearing right now is bawww bloom adds randomness baww.
In all the previous games there was always randomness to any shot besides a select few, it's just now it is being shown.

[Arteen]

In all the previous games there was always randomness to any shot besides a select few, it's just now it is being shown.
Have you even played any Halo game before Reach? The pistol, BR, carbine, and ODST pistol don't have anything like bloom.

[t3h m00kz]

Pistol in Halo 1 had bloom. Automatic weapons in the series have always had bloom. BR has spread and fires three bursts which adds a random factor.

[=sw=warlord]

Have you even played any Halo game before Reach? The pistol, BR, carbine, and ODST pistol don't have anything like bloom.
Have you?
Because I'm looking at the weapon tag for the pistol right now and it's showing me that the pistol had a minimum error of 0 and a maximum error of 2 degrees which gradually climbed the more shots fired in succession.

[t3h m00kz]

OilVqh0lhNY

that's def bloom

damn, funny how halo 1 was MLG's favorite

[ejburke]

EDIT: Clearly, the "bloom" under rapid semi-auto is close to negligible. I'd also like to see a test shooting at an actual target, because I believe there's a bit of a homing effect that might further reduce any potential pistol error. Maybe that was confined to the Xbox version, though.

[p0lar_bear]

A better question here is, how many people noticed and were disappointed to find that the magnum in Halo 2 did not fire full auto?

_o/

[=sw=warlord]

It was pointed out earlier that it's not successive shots that accelerate error in Halo 1, it's holding down on the trigger. I haven't tested that personally, but it sounds correct. If the pistol had bloom under normal, semi-automatic use, people would have noticed.
Isn't that exactly what Bloom hopes to achieve?
Forcing players to slow down and time their shots.

[Arteen]

Have you?
Because I'm looking at the weapon tag for the pistol right now and it's showing me that the pistol had a minimum error of 0 and a maximum error of 2 degrees which gradually climbed the more shots fired in succession.
I'm looking at the tag right now and the error deceleration time is quicker than the weapon's actual rate of fire.


Isn't that exactly what Bloom hopes to achieve?
Forcing players to slow down and time their shots.
Actually that's what maximum-rate-of-fire achieves. Bloom achieves the opposite.

[t3h m00kz]

regardless, method 2 in that video had noticeable inaccuracy compared to method 3. Method 2 adds the randomization factor. "YOUR SHOTS MAY OR MAY NOT HIT." The strategy is nearly identical to reach. Fire faster up close, pace at a distance. There is spread, randomization, and the chance that the shot may not connect.

[Arteen]

If you hold the trigger down too long between shots, sure. I've tested this stuff before and my accuracy was much better than in the video. Negligible difference.

EDIT: If you were paying attention to method 3 in the video, "YOUR SHOTS MAY OR MAY NOT HIT" regardless of how fast you pull the trigger. There is already bullet spread.

[Pooky]

...
You realize that at point blank you could spam ANY weapon to get lucky kills.
What you're looking for here is a weapon that makes the bullets go around the enemy at point blank rather than heading straight and true.
Honestly, this argument is getting more stupid the further it goes, I would spam the AR at point blank range and "get a lucky" kill because of how close i am.
The only solution here that would be approved by either side is to ramp the bloom to stupid proportions, remove the bullet magnetism and make the bloom move quicker so it takes the same time to get your aim right again whilst at the same time any trigger press faster than a timed shot would stray off else where.


As it stands, all I'm hearing right now is bawww bloom adds randomness baww.
In all the previous games there was always randomness to any shot besides a select few, it's just now it is being shown.

You're an idiot. A precision, headshot capable weapon is not the same as an AR.


What you're looking for here is a weapon that makes the bullets go around the enemy at point blank rather than heading straight and true.

Singling this part out in particular. Have you read any of this thread at all? At what point did I ever say more inaccuracy would be a good thing?

[t3h m00kz]

If you hold the trigger down too long between shots, sure. I've tested this stuff before and my accuracy was much better than in the video. Negligible difference.

EDIT: If you were paying attention to method 3 in the video, "YOUR SHOTS MAY OR MAY NOT HIT" regardless of how fast you pull the trigger. There is already bullet spread.

Exactly, it has always been in place that shots may or may not hit, and it has always been a game mechanic that causes randomness. You can get out-pistoled by someone because of the way the spread works. I don't get why it's such a huge deal in Reach. To me it sounds like splitting cut hairs.

[DarkHalo003]

In the AR's defense, if you use short-controlled bursts it's an excellent crowd-control weapon. And guess what? I use Reticle Bloom to use it so effectively and properly.

[Arteen]

Exactly, it has always been in place that shots may or may not hit, and it has always been a game mechanic that causes randomness. You can get out-pistoled by someone because of the way the spread works. I don't get why it's such a huge deal in Reach. To me it sounds like splitting cut hairs.
You're just being obstinate if you claim that the bullet spread of the Halo 1 pistol is at all proportional to the bloom in the Reach magnum. There's a huge, fundamental difference in how the two weapons work that has a significant effect on how the two weapons handle.

[t3h m00kz]

the reach magnum is not what I'm comparing the pistol to.

[Pooky]

In the AR's defense, if you use short-controlled bursts it's an excellent crowd-control weapon. And guess what? I use Reticle Bloom to use it so effectively and properly.

For the last time people, nobody here is complaining about bloom on automatic weapons. To clarify, when people complain about bloom they're complaining about the addition of increasing spread to precision weapons. Nothing else.


the reach magnum is not what I'm comparing the pistol to.

As I've said many times before, the Pistol's spread is constant and unchanging which makes it not a random factor but a predictable one. Yes, you can increase it by holding down the trigger but nobody with half a brain cell ever does that and I can't believe anyone would make such a stupid argument.

[t3h m00kz]

pointless

whatever

you win

[=sw=warlord]

Let me get this straight pooky, You're complaining that a precision weapon has bloom because it adds "randomness" to your shots and might make your shots veer off your target whilst at the same time complaining that people who spam said weapons "might" get a lucky shot?

Had there not been any bloom at all, the spammers would be an even bigger issue.
"hay guiz we're gettin spammed and we dun leik bloom so plz remov bloom so we can spam back k thnx bai!"

Your issue is not with bloom, it's with the ridiculous amounts of auto aim, sit in a revenant passenger with a sniper and see just how many head shots you get and you'll see what I mean.

The issue is not the bloom, if you honestly believe it is you are extremely vain.

[Pooky]

The issue is not the bloom, if you honestly believe it is you are extremely vain.

Jesus christ I can't believe I have to repeat this yet again


teekup: the reticule bloom is pointless because the gun is fucking hitscan
YEAH LET'S PLAY JEDI KNIGHT 2: all the reticle bloom does is add a little more randomness at point blank range
YEAH LET'S PLAY JEDI KNIGHT 2: that's not even the main complaint I have with the DMR, which I've highlighted at least 10 times, but for some reason everyone just harps on the bloom thing

Yes, in my opinion bloom is annoying and dumb. But it's NOT the main problem with the DMR NOR is it the main problem with Reach multiplayer in general.


The difference between the Pistol and the DMR is where the Pistol has a clearly limited maximum range, the DMR does not (within the bounds of any of the official maps). Also while the Pistol requires actual aim to use at close range, with the DMR you can just spam and follow up with an auto aiming super lunging homing melee attack.

This is my complaint with the DMR/NR. The DMR's retarded range prevents open maps from having any sort of flow, while its spammability up close makes it not only obnoxious but less skilled to use compared to previous mid-range weapons in the series. Note that 'spam' doesn't have to mean firing as fast as possible. Just firing slightly faster than normal is enough to make it annoying. A lot of Reach proponents claim to hate the BR from Halo 3. Imagine how much more obnoxious it would be with unlimited range and the ability to fire FASTER at close range.

AM I GETTING THROUGH YET?

[=sw=warlord]

So basicly, your complaint is that gameplay over rules realism?
If you want weapons with no spread go play CoD, don't shit up Halo with your need for everything to be "realistic".

You really are vain, Seriously, if your complaint with the DMR is that someone may get a lucky shot [which judging by your bitching has never happened to you before] then WOW.
With or without bloom, there would still be lucky shots.

[Kornman00]

ITT: pooky rages

[Pooky]

Not my fault some people are so amazingly stupid they can't comprehend plain English. How exactly does one translate


Removing bloom would be good

to


NEEDS MORE SPREAD

[=sw=warlord]

Not my fault you get trashed by casuals and cannot comprehend the possibility of adapting to the situation.

[Pooky]

Yeah, because I said anything to that effect.

It's not like I record every game I play, but ask teekup, mech, ducky, or any other people I've played Halo with in the past. My skill is definitely not the issue.

[=sw=warlord]

I never said your skill was, I said your ability to adapt was.

[Pooky]

Clearly not, since I won or did well in most of the games I played. The ability to win games doesn't automatically make it fun. JK2 is the hardest multiplayer game ever and I do get raped most of the time but it's still far more fun to me than Reach ever will be.

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/CareerStats/playlists.aspx?player=friedmetroid

[DarkHalo003]

ITT: pooky rages
:lmao:

@Pooky: My post wasn't generally directed at reticle bloom per say, but rather the people who say that using the AR requires no skill. I should have clarified I suppose.

[Donut]

so pooky, what iv gathered from your posts is that your compliant about the dmr is that it's range reaches all the way across any stock map, so people cant move around without getting shot all the way across the map, and its magnetism combined with the boom makes it so you can fire it faster than its intended speed (and the resulting loss of accuracy due to bloom isnt an issue because of magnetism), and then a lunge melee will kill after 3 shots are landed. the issue is that they allow the dmr to fire faster by "compensating" with bloom, whereas they could just remove the bloom and slow it down.

is this right?

[Pooky]

Yeah pretty much. My theoretical list of changes to the DMR/NR would be

1. Lock both of them in at their slowest accurate ROF

2. Change the spread to be a constant, slightly smaller than the size of the DMR reticule itself (or in other words, about as much as the Halo 2 BR)

3. Put a hard cap on the range, a distance about 2/3 of the way across hemorrhage

4. Remove increasing bloom

edit:5. Perhaps add back ballistics to the bullet weapons as well. I dunno what Bungie was thinking, but Halo 1, 2, and 3 got by just fine without resorting to Quake 1 era hit detection methods.

Basically like a slightly toned down H1 pistol, or a mix between the Pistol and Battle Rifle


http://www.modacity.net/forums/styles/smilies/trillian/lmao.gif

@Pooky: My post wasn't generally directed at reticle bloom per say, but rather the people who say that using the AR requires no skill. I should have clarified I suppose.

I have nothing against the Halo: Reach AR. It's one of the few things they actually got right.

[=sw=warlord]

Updates out and there's a lot of people unable to update because they have games on demand or got the dash beta preview disk.

[t3h m00kz]

It's out. No bloom on pistol, dmr, needle rifle, pistol's a 4sk

[TeeKup]

Did I misunderstand something? I thought they were removing the RETICULE bloom, NOT the actual bullet bloom/spread. I can spam Warlord across the entire map of Reflection and kill him in 4 shots.

Someone get online so we can test this more.

TeeKup add the gamertag.

[Kornman00]

Um, what do you think bloom is? lol

[TeeKup]

Wow was I not clear enough?

[=sw=warlord]

Not my fault some people are so amazingly stupid
Hey, updates out and surprise surprise, I was right about removing the bloom being a stupid thing.
Who knew??

[p0lar_bear]

Um, what do you think bloom is? lol


I'm still confused over exactly why people are so pissed at reticle bloom; to me, reticle bloom is a cosmetic feature that gives an indication of how accurate my next shot is, but I'm reading it as the whole accuracy system which has been in place since Halo 1.

Did they at least nerf the DMR's RoF to the fastest rate you can fire with bloom while maintaining pinpoint accuracy?

Would like to keep up, I think someone stole my copy of Reach.

[t3h m00kz]

they didn't. You fire as fast as you can and every shot is pretty much pinpoint, though I think the initial spread remains, I've noticed shots not landing.

also

PvWJ8f0oIZ0

(http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=23765433&player=t3h m00kz)FUCKING SATISFYING ;D

[Kornman00]

Fires way too fast.

[DarkHalo003]

Fires way too fast.
Agreed.

[=sw=warlord]

Hey pooky.
I hope you're happy:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61n6wSJw2Yc

[DarkHalo003]

That's laughable. Now the DMR is even more of an OP weapon than it was to begin with.

[Pooky]

Hey pooky.

Not really, that's not what I asked for at all. But since you can't read (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?23875-Upcoming-Title-Update&p=594941&viewfull=1#post594941) I guess you wouldn't know that.

Get the stick out of your butt.

[=sw=warlord]

Not really, that's not what I asked for at all. But since you can't read (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?23875-Upcoming-Title-Update&p=594941&viewfull=1#post594941) I guess you wouldn't know that.

Get the stick out of your butt.
Apparently I can read seeing as this forum is a text based forum.
I would suggest the same back to your about bloom but that wouldn't be original.
All I will say is exactly what I've been warning would happen, has in fact happened.
GG

[Sever]

Nowhere did Pooky say anything drastically negative, or positive for that matter, about bloom/accuracy decay. The issues with the weapons in Reach have always been about maximum range, maximum rate of fire, and damage to vehicles (which is a whole other chapter in the book of what Bungie did wrong).

[Pooky]

Apparently I can read seeing as this forum is a text based forum.
I would suggest the same back to your about bloom but that wouldn't be original.
All I will say is exactly what I've been warning would happen, has in fact happened.
GG

It's like arguing with a creationist...

So let me repeat myself yet again since you show this amazing ability to not actually read what I post


Yeah pretty much. My theoretical list of changes to the DMR/NR would be

1. Lock both of them in at their slowest accurate ROF

2. Change the spread to be a constant, slightly smaller than the size of the DMR reticule itself (or in other words, about as much as the Halo 2 BR)

3. Put a hard cap on the range, a distance about 2/3 of the way across hemorrhage

4. Remove increasing bloom

edit:5. Perhaps add back ballistics to the bullet weapons as well. I dunno what Bungie was thinking, but Halo 1, 2, and 3 got by just fine without resorting to Quake 1 era hit detection methods.

Basically like a slightly toned down H1 pistol, or a mix between the Pistol and Battle Rifle



I have nothing against the Halo: Reach AR. It's one of the few things they actually got right.



Nowhere did Pooky say anything drastically negative, or positive for that matter, about bloom/accuracy decay. The issues with the weapons in Reach have always been about maximum range, maximum rate of fire, and damage to vehicles (which is a whole other chapter in the book of what Bungie did wrong).

This.

When they said they were removing bloom on weapons like the DMR I assumed they were at least smart enough to lower the rate of fire as well. Clearly they weren't.

[BobtheGreatII]

Just FWI. Those of us that were part of the Beta program clear back and got a free copy of Reach, and it wasn't capable of being updated, you received a free games on demand code in your email.


Earlier this year, you participated in the Xbox LIVE Public Preview program and were provided a copy of Halo: Reach as part of your participation. Unfortunately, this Halo: Reach “preview disc” cannot be updated with a conventional Title Update, causing the game to be unplayable after the recent Halo: Reach Title Update on September 21, 2011. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

To get you back online with Halo: Reach, below is a code for the Games on Demand version of the game. Once the code is redeemed and your copy of Halo: Reach is downloaded, the game will work as usual, including the features added by the title update. All of your Halo Reach game saves will work normally as well. You may then discard the disc from the Public Preview program.

Please note that this Games on Demand version of Halo: Reach will require you to have some storage on your Xbox 360 – a hard drive or USB of at least 6.6 gigabytes.

[Siliconmaster]

Yeah, saw that earlier. The interesting thing will be how long those stay valid. I have the genuine Reach disk, as well as the beta program disk. However, aren't games-on-demand playable on a single console? If so, then I plan on waiting until I know which xbox I want it on before downloading/entering the code.

Fake edit: Though I could download it for my xbox, then use the genuine Reach disk as a backup. That could work to utilize both.

[Champ]

Have certain playlists been updated too yet?

[Lateksi]

Not sure if people've seen the Headlong remake yet. Here it is:

yytmB-rLT8A

[DarkHalo003]

Why is there a Falcon crashed into the building if the map takes place in New Mombassa? Just wondering.

[Lateksi]

For the same reason there's a - wow... A FALCON CRASHED INTO YOUR HOUSE!!!

No seriously are they area specific vehicles or something?

[BobtheGreatII]

More importantly, where's my golden warthog?

[Pooky]

Played a few custom games with Teekup and Sever using the no bloom settings earlier. Once you get past the shock of how fast the pistol kills now, I actually thought it played a lot better than standard Reach.

It's amazing how big a difference it makes having a primary weapon that performs reliably and consistently. Teekup noted how we found ourselves bringing back old tactics like strafe dodging because with the pistol's lack of wide-arc spammability you actually have to aim it properly. Furthermore, despite the buff to melee damage rush-double punching was no longer a viable tactic because of the pistol's extreme stopping power.

It could probably use a bit of toning down, but we had so much fun using the pistol on eachother I'd be perfectly fine if it wasn't. Some might think such a change would make all the other weapons useless, but we were still using weapons such as the rocket launcher and shotgun to great effect. What really needs to happen now is for all the mediocre weapons to get a buff to make them more competitive.

Will be very interested to see what happens when Anniversary multiplayer comes along.

[DarkHalo003]

Pistol should be a 4SK. That would make sense to me considering it doesn't bleed through shields.

Also, the AR was a reliable starting weapon, but people refuse to believe it anything more than a spray-and-pray. That really saddens me because it prevents people from thinking it could be used more as a starting weapon than the DMR.

[t3h m00kz]

It is 4 shot in the gametype. The 3 shot video was from a custom game with damage set up.

[Pooky]

Played a few more customs today. Where the skill gap in Reach was almost nonexistent before, I can already see it starting to come back. I definitely like this a lot better.

[nuttyyayap]

So, uh, how does this update work? I looked in the custom game settings and I can't find any new features? Have I not updated properly? Is it megalo hooking so we can't use it ect?

[=sw=warlord]

Played a few more customs today. Where the skill gap in Reach was almost nonexistent before, I can already see it starting to come back. I definitely like this a lot better.
Are you really saying that what has happened is in any way appropriate to what "problems" were "plaguing" Reach?
I didn't think anyone could be this stupid but you've just proved me wrong.
you really are stupid if you think the current changes are in any way a good thing, the needle rifle can now hit anyone in the map no matter the distance and kill them which removes the beam rifle and sniper rifles range and the magnum completely destroys the assault rifle even if the person with the assault rifle has a few seconds head start.

I must say, I am glad these changes are not going to be universal, the changes that have been made have just made the entire trigger spam an even worse issue.

[DarkHalo003]

I'm glad 343 did this though; it takes all of the bitchy Halo 1/Halo 2 profags out of Halo Reach's actual gameplay. Sorry for those who like Halo 1 PC Multiplayer, it's just that I prefer Halo Reach to actually be its own game.

@Pooky: Not sure where you were. There were easily skill gaps in Halo Reach. Notice how I said gaps.

[TeeKup]

@Pooky: Not sure where you were. There was easily skill gaps in Halo reach. Notice how I said gaps.

HAH..No...


I normally don't say things like this, but if you prefer this games gameplay over Halo 1 then you're just a terrible player.

[DarkHalo003]

HAH..No...


I normally don't say things like this, but if you prefer this games gameplay over Halo 1 then you're just a terrible player.
Huh. Halo 1 had everyone starting with an uber-3sk-god-pistol that took no skill to use. Halo 2 featured noob combos, button glitches, and a god-like-battle rifle. Halo 3 is beside itself (it was ruined by playerbase, not schematics and was the best of all until the profags messed up the playlist/map settings and spawns). Halo Reach actually has me picking up more than one weapon because I feel like the weapon would come in handy, not because I have to use it since everyone else is using it. Glad to know people here still group games' gameplay worth based on franchise.

So explain to me again why Halo 1's gameplay is superior to Reach's?

[TeeKup]

Huh. Halo 1 had everyone starting with an uber-3sk-god-pistol that took no skill to use.
I'm not even going top bother with this comment. We've already had plenty of discussions of the balance of Halo 1 and how its actually correct. Peoples failure to observe and identify it shouldn't comment on the matter.

Halo 2 featured noob combos, button glitches, and a god-like-battle rifle. Halo 3 is beside itself (it was ruined by playerbase, not schematics). Aside from the stupid BXR combos, what little multiplayer I did player on Halo 2 was a lot more fun in the close combat spectrum than in Halo 3. Halo 3 had horrible overbalanced weapons that automatically had players default to the battle rifle as it was the only decent weapon. BTB in Halo 3 was alright. Everything else was garbage, case and point: Citadel.


Halo Reach actually has me picking up more than one weapon because I feel like the weapon would come in handy, not because I have to use it since everyone else is using it. Glad to know people here still group games' gameplay worth based on franchise. Go ahead and pick up a plasma repeater on Hemorrhage, tell me how well you do. Reach's insistence for weapons to have retarded range have completely negated any chance of decent gameplay. I don't enjoy being spammed the moment I take a step out of my base to go find a vehicle. There used to be a point in Halos history that unless someone was directly at the base attacking it, the only thing I should have to worry about are snipers. Not some faggot crouching behind a rock right behind red base spamming me with a hitscan, ultra range DMR.

For the record, I have played reach extensively and I have an exceedingly decent K/D ratio.

So explain to me again why Halo 1's gameplay is superior to Reach's?
I don't need to, you're just a terrible player.


Hurf Durf


EDIT: I suggest you PM me from now on.

[DarkHalo003]

Everything you said regarding Halo 3 and Reach was generally opinion or skill-based.

Not good with the Plasma Repeater?
5WBNSZL6gqg
Some people are.

Thought Halo 3 was overbalanced? I thought Halo 3 was unbalanced compared to overbalanced and that was due to how much the Battle Rifle was used. But that's my opinion, so I guess that makes this argument, just like yours, obsolete in the end, I realize.

Oh and if that faggot by that rock on Red Base is causing you issues, then you're a bad player. I shouldn't even have to tell you why since you're a bad player. Though I'd just let you know. And I've played Reach extensively as well and have a very decent K/D as well, so there are my qualifications. In fact here:
[/URL][URL="http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/Default.aspx?player=DarkHalo003&sg=0"]http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/Default.aspx?player=DarkHalo003&sg=0
(http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/default.aspx)
And I want to make sure that I'm not seeming like I am supporting the DMR with that last argument. I hate that thing like it is now and what it was like after the Beta. Once again a stupid playerbase ruined a balanced weapon. Now you know how I felt during Halo 3 half of the time.

The general point of my argument is to show how it can be used to match your argument. In other words, if the only argument/point-in-case you have is that I'm a terrible player or that "Hurf Durf is of any importance, then please by all means keep posting arguments like that.

[TeeKup]

Everything you said regarding Halo 3 and Reach was generally opinion or skill-based.
Keyword there, skill based.

Not good with the Plasma Repeater?
5WBNSZL6gqg
There wasn't a single clip in there from Hemorrhage which I was referring to if you read my post at all. Some people are good with it. I've had my fun with it a lot on Powerhouse and even Swordbase. Just not on Hemorrhage...Also keep in mind I never said anything about being "good" with it.

Thought Halo 3 was overbalanced? I thought Halo 3 was unbalanced compared to overbalanced and that was due to how much the Battle Rifle was used. But that's my opinion, so I guess that makes this argument, just like yours, obsolete in the end, I realize.
The Battle Rifle was used so much because everything else was GARBAGE. Why on earth would you want to use an SMG when half the time the person with the BR will outgun you because you can't even get in range. There were maps and instances where you can get the drop on a person using the BR, however the majority of the time the BR was favored. Case and point again: Citadel.

Oh and if that faggot by that rock on Red Base is causing you issues, then you're a bad player. I shouldn't even have to tell you why since you're a bad player. Though I'd just let you know. And I've played Reach extensively as well and have a very decent K/D as well, so there are my qualifications.
Once again let me clarify so you can somewhat understand. The fact that he can even do that BOTHERS ME. He doesn't kill me, they never do. The moment I find out where he is, I either A: Snipe him or B: Ram a warthog up his ass.

And I want to make sure that I'm not seeming like I am supporting the DMR with that last argument. I hate that thing like it is now and what it was like after the Beta. Once again a stupid playerbase ruined a balanced weapon. Now you know how I felt during Halo 3 half of the time.
I never said or implied you supported the DMR. :v:


The general point of my argument is to show how it can be used to match your argument. In other words, if the only argument/point-in-case you have is that I'm a terrible player or that "Hurf Durf is of any importance, then please by all means keep posting arguments like that.
The case and point of my argument is that you have no idea what you are talking about. Pay attention.

.

EDIT: In fact that player is rather good with the repeater, I wouldn't mind playing a game or two with him on a good map like Severs.

EDIT 2: I guess I'm one of those bitchy Halo 1/Halo 2 profags you keep mentioning. Don't worry I'll be doing just that and staying in the classic playlist so I don't have to listen to your incoherent babble. If you feel the further need to continue this please PM me or something, this is making the thread stale.

[Donut]

dark halo did you watch that montage? almost every kill he either had a friend to distract the guy he was shooting, the enemy was spraying all over the place, he caught the enemy guy off guard, or he got a "reload this" medal on a guy coming out of combat. most of the kills he got were from him knowing how to move around, and im not faulting him for that. that video was a terrible way to defend the plasma repeater. go play invasion. tell me the repeater works better than the dmr. not saying it doesnt have its uses, but that video hardly convinces me that ill get kills if i take a repeater against a dmr at anything outside melee range.

i just wrote a bit about this in a paper on game balance: halo 1's weapon set is so enjoyable because theres not duplicates of weapons (eg: battle rifle and carbine, needle rifle and dmr), and while every weapon has a role it works best in, they can almost all be used effectively in other roles. the very best example is the shotgun. in halo 1 the shotgun is deadly up close, and effective at medium range. the damage from far away is negligible, BUT ITS THERE. in halo 2 and on, the shotgun is deadly like 80% of the time in close range, and at medium range its damage is non-existent, as if the pellets literally disappear.

as for your argument on the halo 1 pistol being a starting weapon, look at halo 2's starters: smg and magnum. look at halo 3's starter: assault rifle. your chances of getting any real kills are low until you manage to get a BR of your own. in halo 1, yes the rape cannon is a spawn weapon. take pooky's example on blood gulch: a red guy makes his way to blue, gets on top of blue base, and starts spawn killing blue with the rape cannon pistol. blues spawn with the pistol too, so they can fight back. put that situation in halo 2, and now you have a bunch of people throwing negligent damage at the red guy from magnums and smgs, and the only reason they kill the guy is because enough of them managed to widdle down his shields and health.

so to bring this back full circle, halo 3's is unbalanced because its OVER BALANCED. instead of giving weapons a loose role like halo 1, but making them effective outside of that role, weapons in halo 3, and reach to an extent, are rigidly constrained to that one role. not to mention that theres more of them. would anybody have been upset if maps just stuck to either the battle rifle or the carbine as the precision weapon in halo 3 instead of using both?

side note: the flaming is not helping anybody's argument. the whole "terrible player" thing is a straight up fucking insult. attack the argument, not the person making it.

[DarkHalo003]

.

If you feel the further need to continue this please PM me or something, this is making the thread stale.
Agreed. I hate grouping people like that, but it's just whenever the game is finally close to being balanced out and perfect, it ends up being fucked up in a different place. For example, like Warlord said, the Pistol nerfs the AR now.

[Kornman00]

So, uh, how does this update work? I looked in the custom game settings and I can't find any new features? Have I not updated properly? Is it megalo hooking so we can't use it ect?
They've just added some more developer options to the megalo data (read: game variants). These new options/settings won't be something you can tweak with the game.

The only megalo options that are ever editable from the variant options screen are a select set of exposed user options, which reflect the underlying megalo script's execution. Every game variant defines all the UI data needed for the game to create an editor for the user options, which is how they're able to do the "<variant-name> options" menu.

[Futzy]

The only place you are currently able to see is in the Zero Bloom Slayer gametype.

That and future gametypes will be available on the Waypoint fileshare http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/Default.aspx?player=HaloWaypoint&sg=0

[Champ]

.

EDIT: In fact that player is rather good with the repeater, I wouldn't mind playing a game or two with him on a good map like Severs.

EDIT 2: I guess I'm one of those bitchy Halo 1/Halo 2 profags you keep mentioning. Don't worry I'll be doing just that and staying in the classic playlist so I don't have to listen to your incoherent babble. If you feel the further need to continue this please PM me or something, this is making the thread stale.
Why do you keep saying he must be bad player? You were terrible at Halo CE...

[Pooky]

Hoo boy, I don't even know where to begin with this clusterfuck.


Are you really saying that what has happened is in any way appropriate to what "problems" were "plaguing" Reach?
I didn't think anyone could be this stupid but you've just proved me wrong.
you really are stupid if you think the current changes are in any way a good thing, the needle rifle can now hit anyone in the map no matter the distance and kill them which removes the beam rifle and sniper rifles range and the magnum completely destroys the assault rifle even if the person with the assault rifle has a few seconds head start.

I must say, I am glad these changes are not going to be universal, the changes that have been made have just made the entire trigger spam an even worse issue.

The pistol is better the way it is now. It doesn't need a nerf. Other weapons need a buff. Trigger spam isn't and never was a problem with Halo, it's a symptom. But I'll elaborate on that further down. I can't comment on the DMR or NR on long distance maps since we didn't play any of those. But long distance maps were already horrible in Reach due to the hitscan, infinite range DMR and retarded vehicle damage system so who cares.

Maybe you should actually read my post where I said the DMR/NR should get a base accuracy penalty to compensate for the lack of bloom. Since you continue to ignore my actual argument and flame me over things I never even said, I'll quote myself for at least the 20th time on this subject.

Spoilered for the benefit of people who actually can read and don't need things recited over and over again.

The difference between the Pistol and the DMR is where the Pistol has a clearly limited maximum range, the DMR does not (within the bounds of any of the official maps). Also while the Pistol requires actual aim to use at close range, with the DMR you can just spam and follow up with an auto aiming super lunging homing melee attack.

This is my complaint with the DMR/NR. The DMR's retarded range prevents open maps from having any sort of flow, while its spammability up close makes it not only obnoxious but less skilled to use compared to previous mid-range weapons in the series. Note that 'spam' doesn't have to mean firing as fast as possible. Just firing slightly faster than normal is enough to make it annoying. A lot of Reach proponents claim to hate the BR from Halo 3. Imagine how much more obnoxious it would be with unlimited range and the ability to fire FASTER at close range.

My theoretical list of changes to the DMR/NR would be

1. Lock both of them in at their slowest accurate ROF

2. Change the spread to be a constant, slightly smaller than the size of the DMR reticule itself (or in other words, about as much as the Halo 2 BR)

3. Put a hard cap on the range, a distance about 2/3 of the way across hemorrhage

4. Remove increasing bloom

edit:5. Perhaps add back ballistics to the bullet weapons as well. I dunno what Bungie was thinking, but Halo 1, 2, and 3 got by just fine without resorting to Quake 1 era hit detection methods.

Basically like a slightly toned down H1 pistol, or a mix between the Pistol and Battle Rifle


Halo 1 had everyone starting with an uber-3sk-god-pistol that took no skill to use.

If you actually believe that, you're probably better off with Reach. I don't think I need to repeat things that have already been explained hundreds of times over.



Alright then,

Now that I've had some time to think about the games we played, I think I understand why it was so much more fun with zero bloom. It's not necessarily because of the accuracy of the killing, it's because of the speed of the killing. That's what Reach and to a lesser extent Halo 3 are missing.

Think back to Halo 1. Remember how fast you could kill someone with 3 shots from the Pistol? Now think Halo: Reach. Notice how it takes WAY longer to kill someone with DMR headshots. The inability to swiftly take out enemies means every engagement is drawn out and leaves ample opportunity for outside interference. One of the most frustrating aspects of Reach multiplayer is that it's so often impossible to engage a given enemy and take him out before having another enemy come up behind you.

Going back to Halo 1 again, in that game I would often take on a large group of enemies by myself without hesitation. On maps like Damnation I'd just weave my way through, taking out enemies gracefully and efficiently with every move. In Reach I wouldn't dream of taking on more than 2 enemies by myself without vastly superior equipment.

The Pistol may have been harsh, but it was fair. Everyone spawned with it, and the sheer speed with which you could take out enemies (especially when combined with grenades) is what gave a lone player a fighting chance against multiple enemies. Since you didn't have to spend so much time pumping shots into a single opponent, you could use smart tactics to get out of any situation.

In fact, now that I think of it, I realize that this has been nearly the entire problem with Halo multiplayer ever since 3. As we've already discussed in Halo 3 Bungie nerfed the damage of everything so dramatically that the Battle Rifle, the general purpose weapon of the game, was nearly as effective as any other weapon in any given situation. That's what lead to the perception of it being overpowered, when really it wasn't. It was underpowered. The whole game was underpowered.

With this realization also comes one that 343 and their title update have an opportunity to change Halo multiplayer for the better for the first time in years. As before, I'll be very interested to see what happens when Anniversary multiplayer comes along.

[DarkHalo003]

Yeah Pooky, it's totally opposite for me in Halo Reach. I run in with an AR and take on at least groups of two. I guess that's just how the games end up playing for me.

[Pooky]

Yeah Pooky, it's totally opposite for me in Halo Reach. I run in with an AR and take on at least groups of two. I guess that's just how the games end up playing for me.

Keep in mind that trueskill rankings still exist and are in full effect, they're just not visible. The game gets dumber the more you win and move up. Not trying to be rude, but I sincerely doubt you've taken on a group of 3 intelligent players by yourself with just the AR and won (on standard Slayer settings).

[t3h m00kz]

I do have to say I look forward to the gametypes. A game being capable of such a different feel is a good thing.

[Champ]

Going back to Halo 1 again, in that game I would often take on a large group of enemies by myself without hesitation. On maps like Damnation I'd just weave my way through, taking out enemies gracefully and efficiently with every move. In Reach I wouldn't dream of taking on more than 2 enemies by myself without vastly superior equipment.

Do you have any other names? Because I don't remember a "Pooky" being good at Halo 1.

[Pooky]

Do you have any other names? Because I don't remember a "Pooky" being good at Halo 1.

I used shitloads of names on Halo CE, usually a new one per day. Never signed up for any forums, never played on any one server for too long, and didn't really know anyone from the community. I stuck with the name "Pooky" after I joined FBI, which was also pretty much the last days of my serious Halo playing.

What names did you use? If I recognize you I might be able to tell you some names you saw me by.

[ejburke]

Not that being good at a game lends analytical credibility in and of itself. Observations are more important than individual performance. It just so happens that people who are good play the most and thus observe more. But the thought of a game designed by MLG makes me chuckle.

[Pooky]

Yeah, I tried MLG's playlist on Reach recently. Only played one game. Even though I was leading almost the whole round and came in second overall, it was the single most boring experience I've ever had in the Halo series.

At least the BR was a fun weapon to use.

e: Incidentally, though I didn't know most people here at the time I played CE, I found it funny when I joined H2V and saw a whole shitload of names of people who'd accused me of botting. I've been accused by almost every longtime community member xD

[Champ]

I used shitloads of names on Halo CE, usually a new one per day. Never signed up for any forums, never played on any one server for too long, and didn't really know anyone from the community. I stuck with the name "Pooky" after I joined FBI, which was also pretty much the last days of my serious Halo playing.

What names did you use? If I recognize you I might be able to tell you some names you saw me by.
I remember FBI, and mech was really the only good member in there. The best players were HIV, seal, blind, uhhh I'm sure I'm forgetting a few.

[Pooky]

I only joined FBI briefly before I stopped playing CE.

At any rate I never claimed to be the best player out there, but I was definitely good enough to compete with the likes of HIV.

[t3h m00kz]

beta hopper's out

[Hotrod]

Zero Bloom quite awesome if I do say so myself. The game just feels so much faster paced. I'm not sure how I'll go back to default Reach after this.

[nuttyyayap]

I'd be able to judge this a lot better if I actually got a game that wasn't slayer dmr's on a poorly designed forge map for fucking once...

[Kornman00]

Fuck ZB slayer dmrs. It turns into nothing but a herp-derpin' pistol fest.

[TeeKup]

Wait....you mean like Halo 1, and Halo 2 and 3 was a BR herp-derping fest, and how Halo: Reach is a herp-derping DMR fest?

[Pooky]

Since when has Halo not been about getting the human mid range headshot weapon and strafing back and forth with it? What makes the other weapons is in how well they complement it.

It just happens the Zero Bloom pistol is vastly more fun to use than the DMR.

[Hotrod]

Actually, I take back what I said. The bloom changes make the already overpowered DMR even more fucking overpowered, and now the pistol is godly too. Fuck this, going back to default Reach :/

[Pooky]

Solution: Remove the DMR and NR, only keep the pistol, buff stats to all other weapons.

[Arteen]

I like how my bullets go where my gun is pointing.

[Hotrod]

Solution: Remove the DMR and NR, only keep the pistol, buff stats to all other weapons.
Kind of like what they'll be doing with the Classic playlist when Halo Anniversary comes out?

[Pooky]

Kind of like what they'll be doing with the Classic playlist when Halo Anniversary comes out?

Sounds good to me!

[Bobblehob]

Yup, Im going back to regular Reach, NR, DMR, and Pistol are ridiculously overpowered. If they were to lower the bloom from the original it would help... but I am beginning to really understand now just why they made the bloom the way it is in regular Reach.

[Pooky]

Why do people bother saying anything is overpowered in Reach when really nothing is? That's the problem. Kills take so fucking long that there's no flow to the combat, you just repeatedly pump shots into the same target and hope one of his 3 buddies doesn't come up behind you.

[Warsaw]

Howsabout they just go back to the same weapon stats that were in the Reach Beta? I would like that. Oh, and change the shotty colour...I like the blue.

[nuttyyayap]

If they'd just remove the VISUAL reticle expansion but keep the spread the same, it WOULD feel "classic".

[=sw=warlord]

Why do people bother saying anything is overpowered in Reach when really nothing is? That's the problem. Kills take so fucking long that there's no flow to the combat, you just repeatedly pump shots into the same target and hope one of his 3 buddies doesn't come up behind you.
If you wanted split second kill times go play another game.
Halo has been about being shot at by people, having the time to turn around and out shoot them back by using superior skill.
This is not Call of twitch shooter where there is no skill in being randomly shot by someone across the map with a pistol and being dead in a mere fraction of a second.
Your rose tinted glasses are colouring your perception.

[Hotrod]

Yup, Im going back to regular Reach, NR, DMR, and Pistol are ridiculously overpowered. If they were to lower the bloom from the original it would help... but I am beginning to really understand now just why they made the bloom the way it is in regular Reach.
Exactly what I was thinking.


Why do people bother saying anything is overpowered in Reach when really nothing is? That's the problem. Kills take so fucking long that there's no flow to the combat, you just repeatedly pump shots into the same target and hope one of his 3 buddies doesn't come up behind you.
I think he was trying to say that they were overpowered in the Zero Bloom gametype, not in default Reach.


Howsabout they just go back to the same weapon stats that were in the Reach Beta? I would like that. Oh, and change the shotty colour...I like the blue.
Agreed 100%, and make the colours of Spartans and Elites in Invasion the same they were in the Beta too.

[DarkHalo003]

The Beta had it down right; it's just the pro-fags ruined whatever balance there was by nerfing the Plasma Repeater and buffing the DMR. Seriously, the children/lazyasses who whined about the game taking too long in kill times were honestly CoD-Slapped to oblivion. This does not include people looking through the microscopes of Halo 1's kill times though. I think those people just liked being able to pick up any weapon to kill anyone, which is okay, except IMO it doesn't promote much movement in today's game-scales.

[Pooky]

If you wanted split second kill times go play another game.
Halo has been about being shot at by people, having the time to turn around and out shoot them back by using superior skill.
This is not Call of twitch shooter where there is no skill in being randomly shot by someone across the map with a pistol and being dead in a mere fraction of a second.
Your rose tinted glasses are colouring your perception.

You don't get to argue since you're incapable of reading. Giving people weak ass guns with huge auto aim does not equate to skill.

[Bobblehob]

Hey derp face, the point of halo is that there are many weapons that are equally effective, called weapon diversity, not find one super accurate god gun and use it to kill everyone else regardless of what they have. And if you really look at it, and if you take the time to compare, the kill times between Reach and H1 are not that different, Except for the bloom, which forces people to be more accurate and pace their shooting better. IMO Reach had a winning weapon setup to begin with, though they did nerf a couple things more than they should have.

And yeah, to be honest, Warlord is right, Halo has always been about giving someone the chance to fight back, instead of rewarding one person that sees another an instant kill. It has always been about allowing you to turn around and fight off an opponent who started shooting you first.

[Pooky]

Hey derp face, the point of halo is that there are many weapons that are equally effective, called weapon diversity, not find one super accurate god gun and use it to kill everyone else regardless of what they have.

Uh, which Halo game ever had that?

Since it doesn't seem like you've actually read this thread at all, I don't think one weapon should be super accurate and more powerful than everything. I think all weapons should be more accurate and powerful. Reach weapons are shit.

[=sw=warlord]

You don't get to argue since you're incapable of reading.
And you don't get argue due to your lack of ability to understand reason.
I pointed out long before the update what removing bloom would do and guess what?
It happened as opposed to you who still thinks no bullet error on guns is the best thing since sliced bread.
Go back to your JK2, there's a reason there isn't a modern version of it and it's not because of the "skilll gap".

[DarkHalo003]

Uh, which Halo game ever had that?

Since it doesn't seem like you've actually read this thread at all, I don't think one weapon should be super accurate and more powerful than everything. I think all weapons should be more accurate and powerful. Reach weapons are shit.
Cool opinion? You are entitled to it, but it gives you no reason to act like your opinion is absolute. I think at least three other people disagree with you here.

And as far as Halo games that did that: Halo 1 and Halo 2. Halo 1 had the Rocket Launcher and Pistol pissing everyone off in open maps. Halo 2 had the BR and Sniper Rifle/Energy Sword killing everything. You have no argument against this because these are simply facts. Halo 1 is an awesome arena/objective/when-maps-have-plenty-of-cover game. Halo 2 is an awesome BTB-when-not-starting-with-BRs/Competitive Objective game. Otherwise, the games aren't that fun. The only time I've found CE to be fun at all is when I'm on smaller maps or playing vehicle-heavy games on BG. The only times I've found H2 to be fun are during BTB matches were everyone doesn't have a BR. These are my opinion, of course, but see just how much ours differ?

[Pooky]

Cool opinion? You are entitled to it, but it gives you no reason to act like your opinion is absolute.

When did I ever say my opinion was absolute? Quote me.


You have no argument against this because these are simply facts.

Oh...


Go back to your JK2, there's a reason there isn't a modern version of it and it's not because of the "skilll gap".

Actually that's exactly why :D

Come match me and get utterly obliterated. Or just go back to your easymode Halo.

No bullet error? Rofl that's the exact opposite of what I said yet again. Christ.

[Champ]

You guys are still doing this dance?