HEK is the worst program I have ever used to mod Halo

[marcus903]

I tried to take everyone's advice by trying out Halo Custom edition to mod some maps, I downloaded Halo Editing Kit, only to realize how bull this program is by the way it works.

Guerilla: Guerilla is a program that does not make any sense at all. You can't even open a map. All you do is edit tags. Plus, I don't know what the hell these settings do. Do they expect me to figure out how to edit these tags but not give me any information on what the settings do?

Halo Editing Kit Plus: This is absolutely the WORST program I have EVER used to mod Halo. Everytime I try to open a map, it stops responding. I have to run it in Windows Vista Classic to get it to work. Why do I have to go through all that JUST to run a program? Plus, there's no actual way to 'swap' metas or even edit them. All I can do is 'extact' tags which is bullshit considering the fact I don't even know what I am extracting it to. The actual biped tag for an elite on <insert map here> is not in the tag. Plus, this is a really unoriginal program.

Sapien: This program is next to worse. Everytime I open it, it halts and then closes by itself. I have to open the task manager to end some sort of CPU Process under 'Set Affinity' to get it to work. Then, the program lacks any information on controls. Plus, this program also have settings that are very confusing and hard to use.

These three programs are terrible programs I have ever used to mod Halo. In addition, you have to go through ALOT of work and alot of computer adjusting and changes to get these things to work. Halo PC is very easy to mod because of how easy HMT, HHT and eschaton is to mod Halo.

[DarkHalo003]

You obviously are doing a lot wrong. I'm not the best at explaining Guerilla, but the other two can be explained:

HEK+ is older than Windows 7 and thus does not work automatically with it. Here is the tut on how to fix HEK+ for Windows 7:
http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=5698

And your Sapien issue can be remedied by looking in the debug.txt file in your 'Halo Custom Edition' directory and seeing what tags you lack, most of which can be remedied by following the above tutorial to extract with HEK+ from the stock maps.

[marcus903]

i dont have a debug.txt file in my halo custom edition folder

[Skyline]

Guerilla: Guerilla is a program that does not make any sense at all. You can't even open a map. All you do is edit tags. Plus, I don't know what the hell these settings do. Do they expect me to figure out how to edit these tags but not give me any information on what the settings do?


Stop thinking the way you would be using another program, this is not the same program as what you were using before, don't expect anything to be the same. Map files we never meant to be edited, they are the end product and a compilation of all the tags. Any of the modding tools you used were made independently, usually with no knowledge of how the actual editing tools behave.

Everything is pretty clear, if you want to edit a vehicle go look in the vehicles folder. There you will probably see a file with the extension ".vehicle" so you should probably start by opening that. Some of the settings aren't documented but most of them are pretty self explanatory. Hover over something you want to change and there might be a tool tip explaining what it does. If not look for comments, I think the vehicle tag has something like "$$$ VEHICLE $$$" you can assume anything under that is directly related to vehicles and so on...

The developers who made halo didn't need documentation since they were the ones who built it from the ground up and so every little thing isn't going to be documented. The name of a vehicle seat is determined by a unit's (cyborg, elite, etc...) animation tag. If you look in there you will see something called "Unit" along with a string, this string determines what a valid vehicle seat is and what animations and settings are used with the associated seat.

[DarkHalo003]

i dont have a debug.txt file in my halo custom edition folder
Then keep running Sapien until you do. It's protocol for the system to produce a debug text per use of the program. Regardless, it's most likely because you lack the tags for that scenario.

[Masterz1337]

If you have HEK installed then yes you do.

Guerrilla lets you edit the "meta" of the the map files before they are meta. It has far more options and many are identical to what was in tools like HMT.

HEK+ gets you the tags from other maps, so you can mix and match any guns, weapons, bipeds, levels that you want.

Sapien is a super version of sparkedit.

Also HEK+ has a GUI for tool.exe to compile maps, so you don't need to use command lines. Tool.exe, guerrilla, and sapien are the tools bungie used to make the game, "shitty" is not an accurate word to describe it.

[Bobblehob]

Hek and HMT dont work the same way. HMT edits map files that have already been compiled, where as HEK allows you to work on the tags, then compile them into a map.

All of the HEK tools are far superior to the PC tools in every way. You just have to spend the time to get used to working with them.

[Kornman00]

i dont have a debug.txt file in my halo custom edition folder
C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Games\Halo Custom Edition\debug.txt
or
C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Halo Custom Edition\debug.txt

[t3h m00kz]

Sounds like you didn't read the instructions or watch tutorials and expected tools used by internal developers to make absolute perfect sense upon first glance. This is not the case. These tools were used internally by Bungie themselves and GBX to make the game that you know and love. They are not user friendly, as they are specialized tools used by professionals who have been working with them for years.

Guerilla:
Database editor. Modify values and change the way things work.

Sapien:
Place crap around your level.

And you missed one very important tool.

Tool:
Compile your source data files into content usable by the engine, and compile your .scenario files into playable maps.

The workflow for modifying, say, a weapon would be as such.

- Open a pre-existing .weapon tag in geurilla
- Modify some data within the weapon tag. Firing rate, spread, etc
- Save as a NEW weapon tag, preferably in a personal folder (NEVER overwrite originals)
- Open pre-existing item_collection (This will let you place it in a map) and point it to your weapon, save as a NEW item_collection
- Open Sapien
- Open a scenario
- Place new item_collection in scenario
- Save
- Copy-paste cmd.exe in your CE folder
- Run "Tool Build_Cache_File Levels/Test/Tutorial/Tutorial" (This is assuming your scenario file is: Halo Custom Edition/Tags/Levels/Test/Tutorial/Tutorial. You need to learn how the tool commands point to files)
- Open CE
- Boot up Tutorial
- Enjoy your map

yeah yeah I know, "BUT ITS SOOO MUCH HARDER."

Well yes, but you're not limited by editing existing weapons. You're not limited by having to rely on modifying existing stuff in order to get stuff to work. It's more than swaps. It's ADDING content. All of those limitations you suffer, having to swap values, is no longer there. Once you've learned how the tools work, you can start dabbling into things like custom art assets and animations.

It's fun as hell and extremely gratifying.

Q6KSwzj_uwc

Needless to say I don't know much about single player modding.

[TVTyrant]

Hek and HMT dont work the same way. HMT edits map files that have already been compiled, where as HEK allows you to work on the tags, then compile them into a map.

All of the HEK tools are far superior to the PC tools in every way. You just have to spend the time to get used to working with them.
Nice job BobbleHob. I wish I could plus rep you :(

[Bobblehob]

Thanks for the +rep tyrant, I apologize for not making my post long enough to suit you :P

I was just trying to tell him why Guerilla wont open map files xP

[p0lar_bear]

These three programs are terrible programs I have ever used to mod Halo. In addition, you have to go through ALOT of work and alot of computer adjusting and changes to get these things to work. Halo PC is very easy to mod because of how easy HMT, HHT and eschaton is to mod Halo.Did you read any of the official documentation (http://modacity.net/docs/hektutorial)? Look up any tutorials (http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?pg=1&sid=23)? Sure, it's nice when a program is intuitive enough to pick up and use, but video game editing tools are notoriously complicated, since most of the time they're modified versions of the in-house tools used to create the game as it was. Hell, I have yet to fully wrap my head around how the Source SDK works, because I simply don't have the time I did when I picked up the HEK.

This is a pretty big deviation from what you wanted, but we're trying to get you into good habits with Halo modding. Halo PC modding is obsolete and extremely limited. Granted, Halo CE also has its limits on what it can do (this ain't UnrealEngine or CryEngine), but there's plenty of headroom compared to HPC, and as long as you're not trying to do something crazy or unreasonable, you probably won't hit those limits for a while.


Guerilla: Guerilla is a program that does not make any sense at all. You can't even open a map. All you do is edit tags. Plus, I don't know what the hell these settings do. Do they expect me to figure out how to edit these tags but not give me any information on what the settings do?Truth be told, no, they didn't. The official documentation covers how to make a map, some technical details, but not much else. The Halo Editing Kit came with enough assets to create multiplayer maps. Everything else the community had figured out by trial-and-error or reverse-engineering.


Halo Editing Kit Plus: This is absolutely the WORST program I have EVER used to mod Halo. Everytime I try to open a map, it stops responding. I have to run it in Windows Vista Classic to get it to work. Why do I have to go through all that JUST to run a program? Plus, there's no actual way to 'swap' metas or even edit them. All I can do is 'extact' tags which is bullshit considering the fact I don't even know what I am extracting it to. The actual biped tag for an elite on <insert map here> is not in the tag. Plus, this is a really unoriginal program.The HEK+ was created when Windows XP was in its prime. SteelixB has long disappeared since its release and there's no source code available for it. Ideally, yeah, nobody should "go through all that" to run a program, but on the other hand, this is exactly why compatibility mode was created.

And, as Masterz said before, editing a map is destructive to it. Get out of the mindset of trying to edit a map directly. Tags are being extracted to wherever the settings dictate they're being extracted to.


Sapien: This program is next to worse. Everytime I open it, it halts and then closes by itself. I have to open the task manager to end some sort of CPU Process under 'Set Affinity' to get it to work. Then, the program lacks any information on controls. Plus, this program also have settings that are very confusing and hard to use.Again, read the official documentation. (http://www.modacity.net/docs/hektutorial/) The level design tutorial explains how to use Sapien for level population.

[ejburke]

I think I understand the sheer rage. It's like being used to patching things with duck tape, hot glue, and popsicle sticks and then being handed a welding torch and trying to use it without bothering to seek instruction. That's how you lose eyebrows. And if you lose your eyebrows, you have to behave extra angrily so that people will be able to tell that you're pissed.

[Tnnaas]

ejburke, would you like to engage in sexual intercourse
Care to share with a few others?

[Ryx]

k, really, STOP META SWAPPING.

even in pc it's bad and outdated, not to mention fucks up the integrity, structure, and generally your map.

[marcus903]

k, really, STOP META SWAPPING.

even in pc it's bad and outdated, not to mention fucks up the integrity, structure, and generally your map.

I am sick of people demanding others to stop meta swapping.

Meta Swapping does NOT always break your maps. I've meta swapped metas on 6 maps and they work incredibily fine.

Also, it has something to do with the scripts that is breaking the maps. It may also be the extra tags that you are swapping. So meta swapping is fine.

[Bobblehob]

I am sick of people demanding others to stop meta swapping.

Meta Swapping does NOT always break your maps. I've meta swapped metas on 6 maps and they work incredibily fine.

Also, it has something to do with the scripts that is breaking the maps. It may also be the extra tags that you are swapping. So meta swapping is fine.

No, Meta swapping is an awful idea, it does damage and break maps on a regular basis, just use the Reference swapping abilities in Eschaton and HHT.

[marcus903]

No, Meta swapping is an awful idea, it does damage and break maps on a regular basis, just use the Reference swapping abilities in Eschaton and HHT.

Well, if it doesn't damage or break maps then why didn't most of my mods break when I meta swapped on them?

[=sw=warlord]

Well, if it doesn't damage or break maps then why didn't most of my mods break when I meta swapped on them?
Meta swapping is overwriting information you cannot obtain again at a later date.
References for tags end up being redundant as you will end up with multiple tags holding the same data but in different names.
This is one of the reasons why PMI was such a awkward process back in the day.

[marcus903]

Well, meta swapping on my mods don't tend to be a problem.

But 2 of maps DID break because I PMI'ed some marines into those levels and swapped them. So the game was probably forcing an animation where you get to a certain part of the map.

Plus, reference swapping can be a pain too.

1. Marines have more than one voice tag. I would need ALL of their voice tags in order for them work. Grunts and jackals only have ONE voice tag. Swapping them would be easier because I'll get all of the marine voice tags in order for it to come out successfully.

2. Reference Swapping is too time consuming and requires a lot of effort for the character to come out right. Meta Swapping is easier because it's quicker.

3. Characters don't come out right when I reference swap. I want ALL Spartans to be indentical copies of the Master Chief, not come out as white spartans.

As a result of these three issues, I would need to meta swap them. But I don't need to worry because most of the maps in which I meta swapped tags did not break. Plus, the 2 maps that are broken usually crashes near the end of the level.

So there is nothing to worry about. The maps still come out fine. I think it's just because you meta swapped certain tags or meta swapped incorrectly.


Meta swapping is overwriting information you cannot obtain again at a later date.
References for tags end up being redundant as you will end up with multiple tags holding the same data but in different names.
This is one of the reasons why PMI was such a awkward process back in the day.

Well, I usually keep all of the tags I'm swapping and the tags I'm swapping them with on Notepad so I won't screw anything up.

[Bobblehob]

Well, meta swapping on my mods don't tend to be a problem.

But 2 of maps DID break because I PMI'ed some marines into those levels and swapped them. So the game was probably forcing an animation where you get to a certain part of the map.

Plus, reference swapping can be a pain too.

1. Marines have more than one voice tag. I would need ALL of their voice tags in order for them work. Grunts and jackals only have ONE voice tag. Swapping them would be easier because I'll get all of the marine voice tags in order for it to come out successfully.

2. Reference Swapping is too time consuming and requires a lot of effort for the character to come out right. Meta Swapping is easier because it's quicker.

3. Characters don't come out right when I reference swap. I want ALL Spartans to be indentical copies of the Master Chief, not come out as white spartans.

As a result of these three issues, I would need to meta swap them. But I don't need to worry because most of the maps in which I meta swapped tags did not break. Plus, the 2 maps that are broken usually crashes near the end of the level.

So there is nothing to worry about. The maps still come out fine. I think it's just because you meta swapped certain tags or meta swapped incorrectly.



Well, I usually keep all of the tags I'm swapping and the tags I'm swapping them with on Notepad so I won't screw anything up.

Will you please just listen to what we are telling you? Reference swapping is the correct way to do it, the way that is much less likely to damage the integrity of your map. It may not be easier, but it will work much better in the end than Meta swapping. In the case of your Spartans being white, you just have to swap in the correct Biped, specifically the SP biped, not the MP biped. The other issue with meta swapping in this case is that once you do swap it, you can't change it back, so if you make a mistake, you either have to start over, or you have to PMI in another tag.

[marcus903]

Will you please just listen to what we are telling you? Reference swapping is the correct way to do it, the way that is much less likely to damage the integrity of your map. It may not be easier, but it will work much better in the end than Meta swapping. In the case of your Spartans being white, you just have to swap in the correct Biped, specifically the SP biped, not the MP biped. The other issue with meta swapping in this case is that once you do swap it, you can't change it back, so if you make a mistake, you either have to start over, or you have to PMI in another tag.

I AM listening. I DO swap the SP biped. But reference swapping takes up too much time. I understand that it may be a better thing to do, but my maps only break when I PMI a character. If I meta swap some tags that were originally in the map in the first place, it comes out fine.

I HAVE reference swapped a character before, but reference swapping over 11 tags takes too much time.

Like I said, meta swapping only breaks when I PMI a tag and swap it with another tag. It does not break when I swap a tag that are supposed to be in on the map in the first place.

I'm not rejecting or denying what you guys said. I just want my mods to come out right. I understand that reference swapping might be better. But the characters usually come out as a different color, the elites do not have shields and instead will stun everytime they are shot.

Edit: I also keep all the tags I'm swapping on Notepad so I don't mess anything up.

[=sw=warlord]

I would suggest you actually do as suggested.
If I'm correct, you are using tutorials for both HMT and HHT from back when me, Conure, Thinkreddie and DECOY were modding Halo PC, many said tutorials were made by us back when Halopc.net was around.
It's likely that said tutorials were from before HCE had been fully mapped out.
Since then many things have been learned, you may not realize it but swapping meta is a very dangerous thing and you being lazy by doing doing PC modding the correct way is erroneous and simply down right foolish.

[Hr3shy]

Ahahahahahahaha this thread made my day.

[=sw=warlord]

Ahahahahahahaha this thread made my day.
You can't say much yourself given your history.

[marcus903]

I would suggest you actually do as suggested.
If I'm correct, you are using tutorials for both HMT and HHT from back when me, Conure, Thinkreddie and DECOY were modding Halo PC, many said tutorials were made by us back when Halopc.net was around.
It's likely that said tutorials were from before HCE had been fully mapped out.
Since then many things have been learned, you may not realize it but swapping meta is a very dangerous thing and you being lazy by doing doing PC modding the correct way is erroneous and simply down right foolish.

Wow, it appears that nobody is actually reading my posts.

I told you 3 times that my maps only break if I PMI a tag. It does not break when I swap tags that were originally in the map. I also told you my solution to the problem. If I put the tags I'm going to swap and use on Notepad, there is a chance of me getting the map done right.

I'll say it again: It doesn't break my maps when I swaps tags that were originally in the map. It only breaks when I PMI a tag in that map. But it doesn't break on all modded maps in which I PMI'd marines into it.

So I listened to your reasons not to meta swap. Now you need to listen to my reasons why I NEED to meta swap.

[Hr3shy]

You can't say much yourself given your history.
I don't really have much a history in CE lol :P

[marcus903]

I understand that you guys are only trying to help. But meta swapping is the only way I can get the characters to come out right. I HAVE reference swapped before but the characters come out wrong.

[Limited]

HEK is not a modding tool, stop thinking it is.

[=sw=warlord]

Wow, it appears that nobody is actually reading my posts.
No, it's just you are not reading ours.
Didn't I just mention I was one of those who wrote the tutorials you follow for your modding practices?
I told you 3 times that my maps only break if I PMI a tag. It does not break when I swap tags that were originally in the map. I also told you my solution to the problem. If I put the tags I'm going to swap and use on Notepad, there is a chance of me getting the map done right.
If you honestly believe that then there is no use for this thread.
I mean why would someone be asking for our help when apparently said person knows more on the subject than those they are asking?
I'll say it again: It doesn't break my maps when I swaps tags that were originally in the map. It only breaks when I PMI a tag in that map. But it doesn't break on all modded maps in which I PMI'd marines into it.

So I listened to your reasons not to meta swap. Now you need to listen to my reasons why I NEED to meta swap.
You don't NEED to swap meta, what you need to do is swap the references correctly and not just overwrite pre-existing data.
How is this hard to understand?
You're forcing data into slots here they don't belong, sooner or later you are going to fuck up and all the work you have done up until that point will be null because you didn't bother doing this the correct way out of pure lazyness.

E: why are you even on this forum?
Modhalo is more suited to people interested in modding Halo PC, sure you could make maps in CE and then use Harbinger to port the maps to Halo PC, Said Harbinger tool being made by Conure which was the culmination of research me, Thinkreddie, Decoy, Conure as well as members like Knave and likely a member or two from former ZMT.
But on topic, if you're not willing to see the EDITING kit as it is rather than something like the hack slash jobs of HMT then why are you here?

[marcus903]

You don't NEED to swap meta, what you need to do is swap the references correctly and not just overwrite pre-existing data.
How is this hard to understand?
You're forcing data into slots here they don't belong, sooner or later you are going to fuck up and all the work you have done up until that point will be null because you didn't bother doing this the correct way out of pure lazyness.

Well, I don't need to reference swap. I keep telling you that I HAVE used reference swapping before but the characters never COME OUT RIGHT! What part of that don't you get?

You don't believe me? Well, I'll tell you:

-I come out as a blue elite. But blue elites are the symbols of the 'elite minors'. The missions I am doing in these mods are NOT something an elite minor does.
-Spartans come out as white spartans. They are supposed to come out as indentical copies of the Master Chief.
-Controls will not seem like I'm playing as an elite.
-Elites (who are supposed to replace the marine_armored tags) will come out the way they look if I meta swap. But they do not have any shields and stun EVERY time they are hit.
-Grunts (including me) are not supposed to come out in black, blue, or purple armor unless I edit actv tags or I meta swapped them. Plus, I'm supposed to be close to the ground when I am a grunt, not 5 ft away from the ground as if I was a spartan.

Jesus. There is a reason why I am meta swapping. I am not trying to reject your suggestions, but I want all of my characters to come out the way I want them.

I'm sorry if I'm being rude.

[=sw=warlord]

Well, I don't need to reference swap. I keep telling you that I HAVE used reference swapping before but the characters never COME OUT RIGHT! What part of that don't you get?

You don't believe me? Well, I'll tell you:

-I come out as a blue elite. But blue elites are the symbols of the 'elite minors'. The missions I am doing in these mods are NOT something an elite minor does.
-Spartans come out as white spartans. They are supposed to come out as indentical copies of the Master Chief.
-Controls will not seem like I'm playing as an elite.
-Elites (who are supposed to replace the marine_armored tags) will come out the way they look if I meta swap. But they do not have any shields and stun EVERY time they are hit.
-Grunts (including me) are not supposed to come out in black, blue, or purple armor unless I edit actv tags or I meta swapped them. Plus, I'm supposed to be close to the ground when I am a grunt, not 5 ft away from the ground as if I was a spartan.

Jesus. There is a reason why I am meta swapping. I am not trying to reject your suggestions, but I want all of my characters to come out the way I want them.

I'm sorry if I'm being rude.
You realize you can change the permutation for the armor colours right?...
Just because a biped resorts to it's basic permutation doesn't mean it must stay that way.
Apparently this went over your head.

[marcus903]

You realize you can change the permutation for the armor colours right?...
Just because a biped resorts to it's basic permutation doesn't mean it must stay that way.
Apparently this went over your head.

I tried that. I whether could not find it or I could only fucking change the color by entering some code.

Also, Let me give you a theory on why meta swapping may break maps:

Each level is run through a script. The script basically acts like the 'director' and gives out rules that the game must follow. It gives out rules that dictate what the game can and cannot do. So let's say you swapped every elite actv with 'elite major' and grunt actv with 'grunt major' on the level Halo. As soon as the first covenant dropship spawns the game crashes. This may because the game is forcing some sort of animation that may only be cured by swapping references or there is too many tags the script requires to be used but the game cannot. So the game must make every grunt and elite a 'major', but the script does not allow that without the use of reference swapping. So as soon as they spawn, the game crashes. The other possibility is that the game doesn't know what to do with the extra tags so the game crashes as soon as the player hits their spawning zone.

However, bipeds do not break the map because it dictates what the characters are and what the player is playing as. The only exception is if you PMI a character or tag that wasn't originally on that map and causes the game to have to force an animation or deal with extra tags that the game do not know what to do with. But if a biped tag was originally part of the map, then the map runs fine.

This is based on what I have been hearing on the internet.

[Ryx]

-Controls will not seem like I'm playing as an elite
erm, not if you dependancy swap correctly


-Elites (who are supposed to replace the marine_armored tags) will come out the way they look if I meta swap. But they do not have any shields and stun EVERY time they are hit.
you need to change the [coll] tag in dependancy swaps too



-Grunts (including me) are not supposed to come out in black, blue, or purple armor unless I edit actv tags or I meta swapped them. Plus, I'm supposed to be close to the ground when I am a grunt, not 5 ft away from the ground as if I was a spartan.
that would be located in the biped tag, on player standing height and crouching height


I could only fucking change the color by entering some code.
there are tuts out there


Each level is run through a script.
l2hek


s soon as the first covenant dropship spawns the game crashes.
because you are putting marines in a seat they cannot be in by meta swapping


However, bipeds do not break the map because it dictates what the characters are and what the player is playing as.
ffs look at what the biped references in a dependancy swapper.


. The only exception is if you PMI a character or tag that wasn't originally on that map and causes the game to have to force an animation or deal with extra tags that the game do not know what to do with. simply because you swapped metas, meaning that it is looking for something that isn't there anymore. it knows what to do with them.

The other possibility is that the game doesn't know what to do with the extra tags so the game crashes as soon as the player hits their spawning zone.
above.


oh, and

-Spartans come out as white spartans. They are supposed to come out as indentical copies of the Master Chief.
execute order 66

oh, and

I It's like being used to patching things with duck tape, hot glue, and popsicle sticks and then being handed a welding torch and trying to use it without bothering to seek instruction. That's how you lose eyebrows. And if you lose your eyebrows, you have to behave extra angrily so that people will be able to tell that you're pissed.
+ cookies

[marcus903]

Ryx, did you read my post before posting that?

I was posting an example. That example was swapping all grunt and elites actv with elite/grunt major actv tags. I didn't say ANYTHING about putting marines in a covenant dropship.

Also, I KNOW how to swap dependancy swap correctly. You misunderstood me when I said controls won't feel like I'm playing as an elite.

Look, I'm not going to sit here and try to explain this over and over again while you guys sit there being smartasses and thinking dependency swapping is the best thing to do. If I meta swap, then I don't have to touch any other tag other than making it where a marine with a fuel rod gun wields a shotgun and making elites and grunts wield human weapons. I don't have to go through changing over 11 tags, chaniging executive orders, changing colors, and changing the character's health system.

Like I said, there is only TWO maps that are broken. I appreciate your help and suggestions but if I don't want to do it, I don't have to. It only two maps that are broken, but they only crash when I'm near the end of the level or is 75% finished with it. The other ones, including the ones where I PMI'ed marines into, work extremely fine.

Though, I DO have to agree with you. Meta Swapping CAN be a bitch as well. I've tried to put elite majors to replace the marine_armored majors on PoA but the level crashes for no reason. I've tried to use HHT to dependency swap so they will become elite majors but they keep remaining as sapphire elites, even if I make their actr and actv an elite major. But Biped tags are less likely to cause exceptions.

The two maps that are broken are Keyes and the Maw, and they do not feature any marines. So Rye, you're right. It is the meta swapping. It's just that I don't want to waste my time dependency swapping when I can just swap the grunt tags in 3 seconds.

I'm sorry I was being rude. I just don't want to dependency swap unless I'm trying to modify an AI's weapon or trying to change an actv.

Like I said, meta swapping gets the job done easier. It doesn't seem to break the maps if I swap tags that were originally on the map. But if it does, it usually crashes when the level is almost over.

[Ryx]

The two maps that are broken are Keyes and the Maw, and they do not feature any marines. So Rye, you're right. It is the meta swapping. It's just that I don't want to waste my time dependency swapping when I can just swap the grunt tags in 3 seconds.

that's the thing: a good mod takes time and thought. while i am not making fun of you for not thinking it through, it is better to take time to do things the right way so they turn out complete.

think of it like china and lead toys; you can save a few bucks and time on quick drying lead paint, but you're going to kill a few babies in the process

[Amit]

That's one hell of an analogy.

[Donut]

basically, forget what you know about pc modding, and start fresh with ce. what youre trying to do IS possible, and it is possible to do RIGHT, with a lot less difficulty than youd think. im not going to go back and explain how to fix each issue thats been discussed here, but if you pose these questions a few at a time, we can explain what to do. at this point it seems like youre still approaching this from the pc modding stand point. if youre going to work with ce, you shouldnt even be thinking about the difference between meta swapping and reference swapping, because reference swapping is how its done with guerilla.

[TVTyrant]

When I switched from HMT to HEK there were a lot of growing pains too. The thing that really helped me was things like Tool++ and other programs that allowed me to simplify my mindset. No, I never released any projects or even showed them on this site because I never thought they were worthy of being shown. You have to approach the HEK with an open mind rather than with the mindset that you know what's best. There are people on this site that have done far more with this game than you realize. Fuck, there are people who have done more than most users realize. Please stop acting like you know more than the people on this site because you don't.

[marcus903]

Well, modding Halo CE is a pain in the fucking neck because you have to go through several tag extractions and CPU modifying. So I'm sticking with HAlo PC.

I'm also closing this thread to prevent any further debates.