I'm sorry

[marcus903]

I'm very sorry for bashing you guys. It's just that I need to work on accepting criticism.

To tell you the truth, let me tell you why I've been rejecting your suggestions:

The correct reason why I've been rude lately is because you keep giving me the wrong type of criticism. I was expecting criticism that does not only tells me the flaws in my modifications, but also telling me the good stuff about it. You guys just told me what was wrong with it, you didn't give me anything good about it. The thing is, I get really upset when people only point out the bad stuff about my mod, and don't give me anything good about it.

The reason why I use PC instead of CE is because I'm not good at modding. I believe CE was made up of people who are good at modding and can do anything besides biped swaps. If I go on CE, I want to do something that I couldn't do on PC. If I can already do it on PC, why should I do it on CE? Plus, PC is easier to mod because CE requires tag conversions and extracting. All this 'converting' confuses and frustrates me, so I mod Halo PC because I don't have to extract anything unless I am PMI'ing some tags.

Furthermore, I'm very sorry for being a rude prick. Any chance to forgive me?

[Amit]

Can't really see anything good about your mods when what you're doing has been done by most of us at least once and is vastly overshadowed by CE. Sorry, it's the harsh truth. Good to see you accepting it now, though. Acceptance leads to growth.

[Reaper Man]

Enough. All that needs to be said, has been said in previous threads, this new one is completely unnecessary.

You can't ask for criticism and then ignore it, because it's the "wrong kind of criticism." The reason you are not receiving any "good" crit is because, as people keep saying, your mod is entirely unoriginal and has been done before - many times.

Please, no more threads like this.

[marcus903]

Enough. All that needs to be said, has been said in previous threads, this new one is completely unnecessary.

You can't ask for criticism and then ignore it, because it's the "wrong kind of criticism." The reason you are not receiving any "good" crit is because, as people keep saying, your mod is entirely unoriginal and has been done before - many times.

Please, no more threads like this.

I KNOW my mod isn't original. It was not made to be original.

[Ryx]

we all secretly needed you.

although I'm not sure why you wouldn't want an original mod... what was it made to be then?

[marcus903]

we all secretly needed you.

although I'm not sure why you wouldn't want an original mod... what was it made to be then?

I knew it wasn't going to be original because I saw mods just like that. It was made to be a twist to the original campaign.

[PopeAK49]

I don't see a problem with asking a question and getting a response from a reliable source..It's understandable that you are frustrated with the HEK, I was the same way when I started out. Just practice something new and you will greatfully learn something you never knew.

[Donut]

i havent said much, but ive been following all of your threads. my thoughts are as follows:



The correct reason why I've been rude lately is because you keep giving me the wrong type of criticism. I was expecting criticism that does not only tells me the flaws in my modifications, but also telling me the good stuff about it. You guys just told me what was wrong with it, you didn't give me anything good about it. The thing is, I get really upset when people only point out the bad stuff about my mod, and don't give me anything good about it.

to put this as gently as i can, this isnt grade school, and we arnt your parents. we arnt going to sit here and tell you everything youre doing is great and you should keep it up. the fact of the matter is you chose to post on a forum that deals (or dealt) almost exclusively with custom edition. the vast majority of us understand the limitations of modding pc, and we use ce because its just better. as people have said before, there was not a whole lot of official documentation for this editing kit. its purpose was to make custom MAPS, and that was it. it just so happened to also have the capability to change other things as well. we all basically had to learn everything ourselves, or ask somebody who did. without starting that whole "this is my work" thing again, i started off very similar to you, except i started with ce instead of pc. my first mod was making assault rifles shoot plasma. and i was PROUD of that too. then i continually looked into tags to see how other things worked using my knowledge of them ingame, and eventually taught myself basically everything i know through experimentation.

point is, youre not a special case. we all started off as ignorant of the HEK as you are. and i mean absolutely no insult by that.



The reason why I use PC instead of CE is because I'm not good at modding. I believe CE was made up of people who are good at modding and can do anything besides biped swaps.
ce is made up of people who started just like you are right now, they just started before you and have had more time to learn. dont fool yourself into thinking we were all born with this knowledge. we had to learn it too. see above statement about how i started.



If I go on CE, I want to do something that I couldn't do on PC. If I can already do it on PC, why should I do it on CE? Plus, PC is easier to mod because CE requires tag conversions and extracting. All this 'converting' confuses and frustrates me, so I mod Halo PC because I don't have to extract anything unless I am PMI'ing some tags.
heres something you can do with ce that you cant do on pc: make a campaign from scratch. by not wanting to move to ce because pc is capable of "everything" you want to do, youre doing 2 things to yourself: one, youre limiting your creativity to the limited constraints of pc modding that youre already aware of, and two, youre purposely ignoring a platform thats pretty much hands down superior to what youre currently using.

i would argue that your best bet is to attempt to re-create a mod youve done on pc using the HEK and ce. if you can figure out the relationship between how pc modding does some thing and how the hek does that same thing, i think that would be a good point to work off of for learning new ce stuff. all those mods people posted in your other thread were not (originally at least) meant to be a put down for you. they were meant to show you just some of what ce is capable of.



Furthermore, I'm very sorry for being a rude prick. Any chance to forgive me?
i cant speak for anyone else, but im taking this thread as a sign of good faith. if you continue on this path and listen to us, then yes. otherwise, i think youll find yourself unwelcome here.

[marcus903]

Well, I'll try the HEK+ again.

[ShadowSpartan]

Well, I'll try the HEK+ again.
HEK+ is a tag extraction program created by SteelixB, a (former) member of the community. It is not an official tool supplied by Gearbox, but it is one of the best public tag extractors available. The three official HEK tools are Guerilla, Sapien and Tool.

[jcap]

If you have problems with extracting using the HEK+, don't hesitate to ask. We can probably guide you every step of the way creating a custom campaign mod properly, but you MUST ask questions properly. Your original dismissal of the HEK toolset and the HEK+ as being "terrible programs" was immature. You didn't know how to use it (no one is born knowing how), but instead of asking for help, you just whined and said your other child toys were better.

Once you extract a map using HEK+, you can explore all of the HEK tools to see how they work in a FINISHED map. I would also highly recommend immediately compiling the scenario as a map file to verify that you can play it in Halo CE. Slow and steady wins the race.

[t3h m00kz]

I don't know what else I can say. I tried to level with you and tell you I've been in the same situation before I made the change over to CE. I tried to tell you it was a bit of effort but well worth it. I tried to give you inspiration and motivation to make the change to CE. You disregarded it, spat in my face and told us you're sticking with PC no matter what.

Seriously. It's not like we're telling you to learn C++. HEK a relatively simple toolset compared to some engines out there that requires zero coding knowledge to use.

I'll probably accept your apology only after you decide to consider our efforts to help you improve and stop treating us like we don't know what we're talking about, and actually start putting effort into what you're trying to achieve.

[Cortexian]

I was expecting criticism that does not only tells me the flaws in my modifications, but also telling me the good stuff about it. You guys just told me what was wrong with it, you didn't give me anything good about it. The thing is, I get really upset when people only point out the bad stuff about my mod, and don't give me anything good about it.
That's not criticism. Criticism is only focusing on the negative.

You are confusing criticism with critique.

[TM_updates]

Hi Marcus, if you want decent uncensored feedback you should come to Halomaps.
A place where people don't deleted your posts, and don't yell at you if your work isn't super insanely awesome!

To the moderator who keeps deleting posts (hi kornman), I'll just PM Marcus :-)

[Reaper Man]

That's not criticism. Criticism is only focusing on the negative.

You are confusing criticism with critique.
This. And even with critique, don't expect a ton of positive crit, as people generally focus on what's wrong, instead of feeding your ego, which you seem to want (I deal with this daily, being in art school and all).

We're not here to tell you how great you are, that's something you earn by creating great content.


Hi Marcus, if you want decent uncensored feedback you should come to Halomaps.
A place where people don't deleted your posts, and don't yell at you if your work isn't super insanely awesome!

To the moderator who keeps deleting posts (hi kornman), I'll just PM Marcus :-)

Sorry that we have quality standards here. I feel like the devs here have earned the right to give harsh critique, seeing what they've contributed to this game.

[t3h m00kz]

Hi Marcus, if you want decent uncensored feedback you should come to Halomaps.
A place where people don't deleted your posts, and don't yell at you if your work isn't super insanely awesome!

To the moderator who keeps deleting posts (hi kornman), I'll just PM Marcus :-)

okay.

Firstly, currently his mod is in PC format. Halomaps is a CE specific forum. His mod would not be appropriate material. He would have to learn HEK.

Secondly, you're going to tell me that he wouldn't get chewed up and spit out if he acted over there how he did here? We started off calm and polite, until he spammed up our Halo CE section with twelve threads and kept locking his old ones, calling HEK a horrible modding tool while not listening to the help that he asked for. We're generally not dicks unless someone is being a nuisance. It's not because his mod sucks, It's because he's acting in an unacceptable manner.

Thirdly, Halomaps posts never get deleted because Dennis constantly lets people break the rules, his justification being "They're mostly 12-15". I firmly believe all forums should expect the posters to act mature, especially in a Halo forum considering it's M-rating. You may call it freedom of speech, but I call it poor moderation. But then again his site would probably get no hits if he kept banning people, so who knows.

With 12-15 year olds, you get people who don't know anything about game developement and think that just because they watched a few tutorials on YouTube they know everything about what they've learned. over at Halomaps, if you whip out a few mediocre Assault Rifle or DMR models, textured or not, you're one of the cool kids. Very few of them have any concept of the subject of art. So yes, people will be giving him asspats regardless of the quality of his work.

The general userbase over at Halomaps has lower standards than most of the furry community.

... almost..

[marcus903]

okay.

Firstly, currently his mod is in PC format. Halomaps is a CE specific forum. His mod would not be appropriate material. He would have to learn HEK.

Secondly, you're going to tell me that he wouldn't get chewed up and spit out if he acted over there how he did here? We started off calm and polite, until he spammed up our Halo CE section with twelve threads and kept locking his old ones, calling HEK a horrible modding tool while not listening to the help that he asked for. We're generally not dicks unless someone is being a nuisance. It's not because his mod sucks, It's because he's acting in an unacceptable manner.

Thirdly, Halomaps posts never get deleted because Dennis constantly lets people break the rules, his justification being "They're mostly 12-15". I firmly believe all forums should expect the posters to act mature, especially in a Halo forum considering it's M-rating. You may call it freedom of speech, but I call it poor moderation. But then again his site would probably get no hits if he kept banning people, so who knows.

With 12-15 year olds, you get people who don't know anything about game developement and think that just because they watched a few tutorials on YouTube they know everything about what they've learned. over at Halomaps, if you whip out a few mediocre Assault Rifle or DMR models, textured or not, you're one of the cool kids. Very few of them have any concept of the subject of art. So yes, people will be giving him asspats regardless of the quality of his work.

The general userbase over at Halomaps has lower standards than most of the furry community.

... almost..

Correct. No matter what website I'm on, people are still going to bash or give me negative feedback regardless of how I act.

Also, I think I have figured out how to put an elite in a spirit without the use of CE. I asked someone on Youtube about it and he told me to look up 'biped animations' in eschaton and change something to 'g-driver'. It's very complicated so I'm waiting on a video from him.

[Donut]

Correct. No matter what website I'm on, people are still going to bash or give me negative feedback regardless of how I act.
absolutely not. "negative" feedback as in telling you what is wrong, yes, but bashing for the sake of bashing? no. the bashing part is almost entirely dependent on your attitude.

think of it this way, if youre running a phone line, who are you going to be more willing to help: the guy who states the problem and politely asks for help, or the loud, pissed off guy who yells a lot?
E: ok let me clarify: there are always going to be a few people who bash you because they can. there are people like that everywhere. we're not ALL going to do that.

[marcus903]

absolutely not. "negative" feedback as in telling you what is wrong, yes, but bashing for the sake of bashing? no. the bashing part is almost entirely dependent on your attitude.

think of it this way, if youre running a phone line, who are you going to be more willing to help: the guy who states the problem and politely asks for help, or the loud, pissed off guy who yells a lot?
E: ok let me clarify: there are always going to be a few people who bash you because they can. there are people like that everywhere. we're not ALL going to do that.

No, people bash because they want to be asswipes who don't know how to give out proper criticism. Giving out negative feedback is one thing, but bashing shows you're a little prick who has no respect for anyone.

You totally misread me when I told you the type of criticism I was expecting. I didn't expect every person to give me positive feedback. I was expected you to give me the good things about my mod instead of the bad stuff. This means that you should give me both the good stuff and the bad stuff about my mod, not just showing off the bad stuff. It's called 'constructive critisicm'

I should have told you the criticism I was expecting. Being rude and telling me that my mod sucks, I need to stop meta swapping, go on CE, etc is not helping me. I know some of you were being nice, but I have reasons to be meta swapping on PC.

Also, whoever the bastard who told me to go on halomaps.org needs to get slapped in the face. That site is dedicated to CE, not PC.

[t3h m00kz]

No, people around here don't bash you to be "asswipes." They bash you because your attitude is horrible and you lack the concept of respect.

[TVTyrant]

There is no longer a purpose to this thread, since Marcus has effectively labeled this forum's members as "asswipes".

[t3h m00kz]

OP:
sry gaiz plz forgive me

ITT:
people bash because they want to be asswipes
whoever the bastard who told me to go on halomaps.org needs to get slapped in the face

yep. I'd say this thread is no longer valid.

[ShadowSpartan]

No, people bash because they want to be asswipes who don't know how to give out proper criticism. Giving out negative feedback is one thing, but bashing shows you're a little prick who has no respect for anyone.
That right there shows just how close minded you are.


You totally misread me when I told you the type of criticism I was expecting. I didn't expect every person to give me positive feedback. I was expected you to give me the good things about my mod instead of the bad stuff. This means that you should give me both the good stuff and the bad stuff about my mod, not just showing off the bad stuff. It's called 'constructive critisicm'
Nice contradiction. You came to a site dedicated to almost solely CE development, since that is what we have been using for years, and show us a couple simple PC mods that most of us have done at one time or another. There was nothing good about them to many of us because its too simple. If you want to actually learn about the Blam engine (the engine that the Halo games run on) then I suggest you move to CE, because you won't get much help with PC modding here. It is too simple and archaic in terms of modding.


I should have told you the criticism I was expecting. Being rude and telling me that my mod sucks, I need to stop meta swapping, go on CE, etc is not helping me. I know some of you were being nice, but I have reasons to be meta swapping on PC.
I believe people started bashing you after you kept spamming the forum with thread after thread wanting input on such simple PC mods that we could all do within 10 minutes. Another reason is because of your attitude towards members of the community when they tried to give you advice on what to do, you completely ignored it and talked down to them, showing a complete lack of respect (. We've told you how to improve by making the jump to CE like all of us have done in the past, and actually learn how things work. If you don't want to take that advice and continue to want praise for such simple mods, then I don't think you will do very well on this site.


Also, whoever the bastard who told me to go on halomaps.org needs to get slapped in the face. That site is dedicated to CE, not PC.
That's the one and only thing I agree with you on.

[Ifafudafi]

oh man I told myself I'd stop posting in these threads but I just - can't - help - myself

The only thing you have done, unless you're hiding something incredible that you haven't shown us, is swap out a few models and references. Because this is a ludicrously simple and easy switch, there's very little to comment on. There is quite literally only one "good" thing to say about it - it doesn't completely break the game. Every other aspect of the mod either (at best) adds nothing to the game or (at worst) actually detracts from it (idiosyncratic models, nonsensical narrative, etc.)

I don't know how many different ways we can put this - you're not getting any positive feedback because your mod is so incredibly bland and effortless that there's simply nothing to comment on. It'd be as if you drew a not-quite-straight-but-not-offensive line on a piece of paper and asked for an in-depth critique - there's just nothing to say other than "well I'm pretty sure it's a line." Because there is nothing possible to say about your mod in and of itself other than "it kind of works," we then focus on how we believe it could be improved, chief among those suggestions being the adoption of Custom Edition - something you seem to be irrationally resistant due simply because it actually takes work.

If you want people to tell you you're doing a good job, you have to do something that's actually impressive and noteworthy - if you find yourself unable to do something impressive or noteworthy, you can either 1. listen to us and try to improve or 2. not post and find something else you can do well. I'd rather not shove you toward #2, but you sure aren't making it easy

[marcus903]

No, people around here don't bash you to be "asswipes." They bash you because your attitude is horrible and you lack the concept of respect.

Did I ever say that you bash me because you want to be asswipes? No. I wasn't targeted at you guys.

[marcus903]

There is no longer a purpose to this thread, since Marcus has effectively labeled this forum's members as "asswipes".

I wasn't targeted at YOU guys. I was targeted around the entire internet.

[TeeKup]

Oh boy. He still isn't listing and Lodex got banned...again. All this drama actually wants me to get back into CE, and release something decent.

Hmmm....

[Resinball]

My advice. Don't make your mods just for feedback. Make your mods for fun and an eventual release. How many posts have we seen were some dude posted a 3D box and wants constructive critz or asks about doing real modding Halo PC?

Just because you don't agree with the opinions here doesn't mean you should ignore good advice; check out CE, you'll love it and be like, "Halo PC modding what?" Its not like you have to create everything from scratch; there are literally thousands of free tags and tutorials. You can download all the campaign map's scenarios you want then modify them and its not that hard because again, most of the work has already been done for you, some of it by people on this very board. Don't bite the hand that feeds you and all that.


If you did make the jump to Custom Edition you would see its only as complex as you want to make it.

[Cortexian]

This community isn't here to cater to your ego.

If you want some feedback or assistance on something in particular, feel free to ask. Preferably in ONE "help thread" where you can keep a fairly organized list of all your questions and our answers for future reference.

loo'ked.