U.S. District Court rules DOMA Unconstitutional.

[TeeKup]

http://lambdalegal.org/news/ca_20120222_judge-rules-doma

Hey look the system isn't entirely broken after all.

[Warsaw]

A glimmer of hope!

"Look Mister Frodo! There's a light up there, where no shadows can touch."

[Rainbow Dash]

Only took sixteen years.

[Nero]

May I ask why this is in tech talk? :p

[TeeKup]

Wtf. I thought I put this in off topic...

[Cortexian]

I moved it (to Off Topic from Tech Talk).

[rossmum]

It's still pretty disgusting that it took this long, or that it even existed in the first place. For a nation whose own founding fathers tried to separate church and state in, America is probably one of the worst countries on Earth in that regard. Then again, it was initially settled by puritans who were so fucking crazy that Europe didn't want them, so I guess there's that.

They should make a new amendment which completely prohibits any and all mention of religion or anything it entails by politicans while actually on the job. Leave your own belief at the door and stop fucking everyone else over.

[ICEE]

It's still pretty disgusting that it took this long, or that it even existed in the first place. For a nation whose own founding fathers tried to separate church and state in, America is probably one of the worst countries on Earth in that regard. Then again, it was initially settled by puritans who were so fucking crazy that Europe didn't want them, so I guess there's that.

They should make a new amendment which completely prohibits any and all mention of religion or anything it entails by politicans while actually on the job. Leave your own belief at the door and stop fucking everyone else over.

That would be really fucking nice but it would never pass. There's a reason that the only president who wasn't protestant, was catholic. Jesus still pretty much has swag in the states (which really means whichever churchguy talks about Jesus most charismatically has power). I think that part of the reason all of these retarded social issues surface in America is because we've got people from every culture ever living here. The only thing average Americans have in common with their neighbors IS christianity. It's thoroughly frustrating

[TVTyrant]

That would be really fucking nice but it would never pass. There's a reason that the only president who wasn't protestant, was catholic. Jesus still pretty much has swag in the states (which really means whichever churchguy talks about Jesus most charismatically has power). I think that part of the reason all of these retarded social issues surface in America is because we've got people from every culture ever living here. The only thing average Americans have in common with their neighbors IS christianity. It's thoroughly frustrating
This. The way most of the states are set up, blacks whites hispanics and asians have very few things in common. One of those things is the majority in all demographics are religious. If it weren't for my recent frustration at the government I'd say that there's nothing wrong with people making a point about religion in politics, but recently everything our congressional branch has done has fucking pissed me off, and we don't even have a real president. We have a black guy who sings Al Green songs and signs every fucking slip of paper they put in front of him.

[DarkHalo003]

It's still pretty disgusting that it took this long, or that it even existed in the first place. For a nation whose own founding fathers tried to separate church and state in, America is probably one of the worst countries on Earth in that regard. Then again, it was initially settled by puritans who were so fucking crazy that Europe didn't want them, so I guess there's that.

They should make a new amendment which completely prohibits any and all mention of religion or anything it entails by politicans while actually on the job. Leave your own belief at the door and stop fucking everyone else over.
The puritans and settlers of America left Europe because of the either the hysteria and idiocy created by the Catholic church or for economic gain.

I'm having a difficult time separating whether you just hate America or if you don't have a filter in your posting. The U.S. isn't the worst country on Earth in the regard that you speak. It's ignorant to think otherwise; you're just going by a he-said-she-said information base. The media, my friend, is not an accurate representation of this nation. You want to talk about religiously insane countries? Make a topic about Iran, Saudi, Pakistan, and anywhere else that has had people in office murdered because of religious affiliation.

[TVTyrant]

The puritans and settlers of America left Europe because of the either the hysteria and idiocy created by the Catholic church or for economic gain.
Okay, it was the Anglican church first of all. After the protestant reformation, there were many sects of Christianity. Britain chose to form the Anglican church, which was an interesting variation on catholicism, but it was not the Catholic church. The Puritans or "pilgrims" left for America because of this.


I'm having a difficult time separating whether you just hate America or if you don't have a filter in your posting. The U.S. isn't the worst country on Earth in the regard that you speak. It's ignorant to think otherwise; you're just going by a he-said-she-said information base. The media, my friend, is not an accurate representation of this nation. You want to talk about religiously insane countries? Make a topic about Iran, Saudi, Pakistan, and anywhere else that has had people in office murdered because of religious affiliation.
This is true by about a million times.

[ICEE]

I had assumed Ross was talking about First world nations. I think its pretty obvious to everyone here that the US is more tolerant and such than religious themed nations like that.

[DarkHalo003]

Okay, it was the Anglican church first of all. After the protestant reformation, there were many sects of Christianity. Britain chose to form the Anglican church, which was an interesting variation on catholicism, but it was not the Catholic church. The Puritans or "pilgrims" left for America because of this.

Whoops, forgot about that. Regardless, the Catholic church played a big role in the mainland of Europe. You are right about Britain's side though.

[TVTyrant]

Whoops, forgot about that. Regardless, the Catholic church played a big role in the mainland of Europe. You are right about Britain's side though.
:hist101:

Its cool lol. Im a big jerk about these kinds of things.

[rossmum]

The puritans and settlers of America left Europe because of the either the hysteria and idiocy created by the Catholic church or for economic gain.

I'm having a difficult time separating whether you just hate America or if you don't have a filter in your posting. The U.S. isn't the worst country on Earth in the regard that you speak. It's ignorant to think otherwise; you're just going by a he-said-she-said information base. The media, my friend, is not an accurate representation of this nation. You want to talk about religiously insane countries? Make a topic about Iran, Saudi, Pakistan, and anywhere else that has had people in office murdered because of religious affiliation.


I had assumed Ross was talking about First world nations. I think its pretty obvious to everyone here that the US is more tolerant and such than religious themed nations like that.

yeah basically this. i don't believe a single one of the theocracies in the middle east was founded with an intent to keep church and state separate.

and no, i don't hate america or have some kind of anti-america post filter, your country is legitimately that backwards both socially and economically. sorry, but it is. the us has been consistently behind the curve on every social issue i can think of, and there is no sign of that changing. it's not an exaggeration to say that what people call far left there is actually fairly close to being far right in any other given western nation.

people need to learn the difference between 'america hate' and 'the truth'. the usa is very, very fucking far from perfect and generally in the wrong when it comes to any post-ww2 conflict (the entire cold war, georgia), or if they're not, then they're deliberately trying to do as little as possible in the interest of preserving their government (bosnia). the economy is a giant pile of shit - i mean come on, your minimum wage is less than half of ours and your dollar is also doing pretty poorly now - and american products are actually not always the best (military equipment especially).

[TVTyrant]

People who call for far anything in America are retarded.

And no, I know some people who are so far left they would shock you. Shit like it should be illegal to cut down trees and dogs should be given human rights and all kinds of shit that is just bat shit insane.

I disagree with your point on the Cold War but that can wait for another day.

American products aren't the best because there are none.

The minimum wage in Oregon is like $9 and hour. Not too awful. IDRC what it is anywhere else, I'm never going to leave this state. Its the best in the union, with one of the better economies, second to most public land etc. Honestly the rest of the country can fuck off.

Lots if places are very very far from perfect, but just because we essentially have to pick shit up for people all the time means we get all the attention, positive and negative.

[rossmum]

Uh, unless my maths is totally fucked, that works out to less than $18,000 a year, which is literally less than half our minimum. A lot less.

[TVTyrant]

Uh, unless my maths is totally fucked, that works out to less than $18,000 a year, which is literally less than half our minimum. A lot less.
If you don't have the intelligence to get a real job, you don't deserve one. Here in the US, about the only folks who work minimum wage are teenagers here.

[rossmum]

Real jobs here have even higher wages. There's no two ways around it, the US economy is trash.

[TVTyrant]

Real jobs here have even higher wages. There's no two ways around it, the US economy is trash.
Or you just don't understand it. The cost of living here (to my understanding) is much lower than in Australia or Europe or just about anywhere else not named China/India.

[rossmum]

And yet the US has entire neighbourhoods where people can barely afford to feed themselves. Before you immediately say it's because they're lazy or useless, no, it generally isn't. It's because they have no fucking opportunity to make decent money. There are a lot less genuinely lazy, leeching people than people believe, because tarring everyone with the same brush is a convenient way of shoving your fingers in your ears and humming loudly.

By the way, remind me which country didn't enter recession during the GFC? It wasn't the US! Remind me which country scores of people lost their homes in? It wasn't here!

The US economy is absolutely shit, anyone who has ever lived in any halfway decent western country will tell you the same. Cheaper living costs don't justify abysmally low minimum wages, especially when those living costs aren't as comparatively cheap as you like to think.

[TVTyrant]

And yet the US has entire neighbourhoods where people can barely afford to feed themselves. Before you immediately say it's because they're lazy or useless, no, it generally isn't. It's because they have no fucking opportunity to make decent money. There are a lot less genuinely lazy, leeching people than people believe, because tarring everyone with the same brush is a convenient way of shoving your fingers in your ears and humming loudly.

By the way, remind me which country didn't enter recession during the GFC? It wasn't the US! Remind me which country scores of people lost their homes in? It wasn't here!

The US economy is absolutely shit, anyone who has ever lived in any halfway decent western country will tell you the same. Cheaper living costs don't justify abysmally low minimum wages, especially when those living costs aren't as comparatively cheap as you like to think.
The Hood is the Hood. Half the people are out of jobs because of Ronald Reagan being a fucking retard and our lack of government leadership, the other half are horrible thugs who dont care about anyone but themselves. Luckily Oregon has none of this, so yeah like I have said it would be neat to see the NW states as an independent country. Nobody would miss us.

[Cortexian]

Living in Canada.

Minimum wage is $12/hour.

welp~

[Ryx]

The Hood is the Hood. Half the people are out of jobs because of Ronald Reagan being a fucking retard and our lack of government leadership, the other half are horrible thugs who dont care about anyone but themselves. Luckily Oregon has none of this, so yeah like I have said it would be neat to see the NW states as an independent country. Nobody would miss us.
Wat. Portland and Seattle have lots of homeless people / jobless people. I don't know what it's ranked in the nation, but it's pretty high.

Also, Cortex I'm jelly. Washington minimum wage is ~9 USD.

[TVTyrant]

Wat. Portland and Seattle have lots of homeless people / jobless people. I don't know what it's ranked in the nation, but it's pretty high.

Also, Cortex I'm jelly. Washington minimum wage is ~9 USD.
Homeless are homeless. We have very few Hoods/ghettos due to gentrification. The only ones that exist I have lived in and aren't that bad. Seattle isn't in Oregon so I can't say.

[Bodzilla]

That would be really fucking nice but it would never pass. There's a reason that the only president who wasn't protestant, was catholic. Jesus still pretty much has swag in the states (which really means whichever churchguy talks about Jesus most charismatically has power). I think that part of the reason all of these retarded social issues surface in America is because we've got people from every culture ever living here. The only thing average Americans have in common with their neighbors IS christianity. It's thoroughly frustrating
no the problems have stemmed from main stream media, and people electing politicians based on the perception they could just go up and talk to them in a pub.

that is literally the worst personality trait you should ever have in a politician, joe blows shouldnt be in office, it should be rational and insanely smart people who raise an eyebrow and then shut down your complaints and reservations by simply being a hell of alot smarter then you.

[Anton]

I'm certainly glad DOMA was ruled unconstitutional. Our country needs to strive for equivalency.


As for the mindless bickering over minimum wage, american pitfalls, blah blah blah: Get over it. I'm sorry, but the United States is one of the most diverse nations on this planet. There are so many micro-economies in each state alone that you can't judge the nation as a whole on one state's unemployment, one state's minimum wage, etc. There's a reason Kentucky's minimum wage is 7.50 while California's is 10 dollars and some change. The cost of living is extremely diverse across the US. It's hard to have solid infrastructure when each state has it's own government, and each state has its many counties that EACH have their own governments.. so on, so forth. Due to the manner in which the "power" is split up in the US, there can never be a proper development in anything due to everyone seeing things differently. When you finally get infrastructure started (Interstate system), some states lag behind tremendously. It sucks, but it's reality. I'm rambling, but in all, I want to say this: you cannot judge the United States like you judge other nations; it just doesn't work that way. Until you get a solid grasp of economics on a macro and micro level for each area there will never be any discussion beyond, "OH, THE UNITED STATES! AHAHAH"

Anyway, have fun picking apart my mini-rambling rant.

[ICEE]

^Basically what I was going to bring up (Though california's minimum wage is actually 8.80).


no the problems have stemmed from main stream media, and people electing politicians based on the perception they could just go up and talk to them in a pub.

that is literally the worst personality trait you should ever have in a politician, joe blows shouldnt be in office, it should be rational and insanely smart people who raise an eyebrow and then shut down your complaints and reservations by simply being a hell of alot smarter then you.

I don't think your perceptions on the matter are accurate. I think if anyone here is a victim of media distortion, its you (based on comments like these). Most Americans recognize that the media is full of shit. It's common knowledge and I haven't met a person who doesn't take what the reporters say with a grain of salt. I certainly don't think the crowds of ruffians that reporters interview and slam all over the internet represents anyone's views but theirs. I also think it's foolish for you to assume that social/economical issues can only arise from one source. I'm pretty positive it's a number of things.

But what's really important is what Anton said. People from Iowa aren't like people from California. People from texas aren't like people from Rhode Island. As a Californian I can really only speak for my state when I say that it is in fact riddled with problems. Our economy is shit, we have one of the higher unemployment rates in the union, we keep re-electing the same god damned retarded politicians and just sort of cross our big dumb fingers and hope they don't fuck up again. I think the whole infamous prop 8 shenanigan illustrates well how our government operates. As you might imagine, it IS frustrating to live here for these reasons.

America isn't a bad place to live with all things considered. We've got our fair share of problems like anyone else, but no one's dropping bombs on us or forcing religion down our throats. We don't have a ridiculous figurehead monarchy living in royalty on taxpayer dollars. It's really not so bad as long as you're not a gay person with aspirations of marriage.

[rossmum]

America isn't a bad place to live with all things considered. We've got our fair share of problems like anyone else, but no one's dropping bombs on us or forcing religion down our throats. We don't have a ridiculous figurehead monarchy living in royalty on taxpayer dollars. It's really not so bad as long as you're not a gay person with aspirations of marriage.
:raise:

[TVTyrant]

:raise:
Last sentence is meant to be funny

[rossmum]

Yeah but it does kind of utterly contradict your point about religion. Shit, the US is second only to the more theocratic countries in the ME for "places where you are likely to have religion shoved down your throat".

[TVTyrant]

Yeah but it does kind of utterly contradict your point about religion. Shit, the US is second only to the more theocratic countries in the ME for "places where you are likely to have religion shoved down your throat".
Youre thinking of Texas. No one has ever tried to shove any deity down my throat except for the friends I made at college who were from Qatar. But that story can wait for another day and its really fucked.

[rossmum]

Not just Texas. The Bible Belt is called that for a reason, and the generally attitudes of the country and general (not to mention the amount of references to God in official shit) definitely suggest that the US has a long way to go in that regard.

[TVTyrant]

Not just Texas. The Bible Belt is called that for a reason, and the generally attitudes of the country and general (not to mention the amount of references to God in official shit) definitely suggest that the US has a long way to go in that regard.
Well, like I said I don't live there so I have no input. I live in a pretty isolated part of the country which makes it really nice. Lots and lots of people who are either leftists or true conservatives who keep to themselves most of the time. Other that Jehova's Witness people no one even really asks about it around here or really seems to make a big deal about it. The only time I observed the kind of thing you seem to think is common place was in 04 when we voted Gay Marriage down, which was a travesty I blame on the Hispanic portion of the population (not bad people, just not many who are educated yet). It barely passed here if I recall correctly.

[TeeKup]

I live in the heart of the Bible Belt. Its somewhat hell down here.

[=sw=warlord]

I live in the heart of the Bible Belt. Its somewhat hell down here.

:eyesroll:

[TVTyrant]

I live in the heart of the Bible Belt. Its somewhat hell down here.
Ironic lol.

[ICEE]

Yeah but it does kind of utterly contradict your point about religion. Shit, the US is second only to the more theocratic countries in the ME for "places where you are likely to have religion shoved down your throat".

To be more descriptive, no one is forcing you to practice anything here. I wasn't trying to say that religious values don't have their fingers in our lawmaking soup, I mean thats the entire theme of this thread.

[DarkHalo003]

I live in the heart of the Bible Belt. Its somewhat hell down here.
You saying that because it's usually 80+ degrees or because of the hypocrisy?

[TeeKup]

I live in upstate SC, so most people are actually rather polite and kind. But once you go near Beaufort and Aiken, people will give you nasty looks for even remotely looking different. Its a shame really, because past those places right on the coast are some of the states most popular and well known cities. Charleston, Myrtle Beach, Garden City, most people down there are equally polite and welcoming. I can't tell you enough just what a beautiful city Charleston is.

[TVTyrant]

I live in upstate SC, so most people are actually rather polite and kind. But once you go near Beaufort and Aiken, people will give you nasty looks for even remotely looking different. Its a shame really, because past those places right on the coast are some of the states most popular and well known cities. Charleston, Myrtle Beach, Garden City, most people down there are equally polite and welcoming. I can't tell you enough just what a beautiful city Charleston is.
Do you live in a town or out in the country, Teek?

[TeeKup]

The Town of Fort Mill.

[TVTyrant]

The Town of Fort Mill.
yes! small town kids!

[DarkHalo003]

I live in upstate SC, so most people are actually rather polite and kind. But once you go near Beaufort and Aiken, people will give you nasty looks for even remotely looking different. Its a shame really, because past those places right on the coast are some of the states most popular and well known cities. Charleston, Myrtle Beach, Garden City, most people down there are equally polite and welcoming. I can't tell you enough just what a beautiful city Charleston is.
Ah, I know what you mean. I live in Atlanta, Georgia or Milledgeville, Georgia and basically either you're used to all kinds of races or you realize that the poverty line diffuses the racial barriers. Either way, Charleston is a super nice place, been there for vacation more times than I can remember.

[rossmum]

To be more descriptive, no one is forcing you to practice anything here. I wasn't trying to say that religious values don't have their fingers in our lawmaking soup, I mean thats the entire theme of this thread.
Actually, they are. The majority of debate around abortion and all of the debate around gay marriage is based entirely on religious bigotry, and being forced NOT to do something is just as bad as being forced to do it.

Not to mention the periodic threads popping up from US servicemen in Goons in Platoons about "mandatory fun" events having strongly religious overtones just because an officer somewhere in the chain is super duper fucking religious and thinks it's his way or the highway. I distinctly remember one where soldiers had a choice between going to a concert by some evangelical band or spending the entire weekend cleaning the barracks and on watch, which basically comes down to punishment. Nothing was done. If that happened here, the ADF would have some very serious explaining to do to the public, and everyone involved would be in a world of shit.

Like I said, I'm not saying this to be a douche - the US as a whole is just so far behind everyone else socially that it's not funny. It's something people need to stop making excuses for and start fixing.

[TeeKup]

My small town is slightly boring, but nothing relatively bad happens here. The cops are actually polite, and its fun to chat with them at work. We actually have a lot of history, that's really neat. The only less-than-desirable icon of the town is Lake Wylie. It's man-made and utterly filthy. I'd sooner drink water from Pripyat than eat the fish in that lake.

[Tnnaas]

Like I said, I'm not saying this to be a douche - the US as a whole is just so far behind everyone else socially that it's not funny. It's something people need to stop making excuses for and start fixing.
Does applying chlorine to the gene pool help in terms of fixing the problem? \sarcasm

On a bit more serious note: I live one of the most right-winged states in the U.S. and have to deal with highly religious issues all the time. The only benefit of being in Lawrence, Kansas is that my city is perhaps the most left-winged in the entire region. It's kind of the reason why I'm not 100% socially/politically/religiously backwards. Unfortunately, I'm stuck between two houses as the end result of an unfortunate divorce (my parents are Protestant, not Catholic). This means that between Lawrence (the anti-slavery HQ) and Lecompton (the pro-slavery HQ), I'm seeing both sides of the conflict. I've already made my decision though because the ever-so blind and misinformed citizens of Lecompton hold a lot of sentiment against non-Christians (including me). I'm not exaggerating at all. It's kind of saddening that they choose ignorance.