Conservative Party's Omnibus Crime Bill passed

[Rainbow Dash]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/03/12/pol-crime-bill-monday.html

welp

[Rainbow Dash]

But Rainbow Dash, it protects children from sexual predators!

[rossmum]

this is dumb and a huge part of why america is so fucked up, so good work conservatives i guess


Honest, law abiding citizens have nothing to fear from this! They have nothing to fear from surveillance cameras, nothing to fear from check stop campaigns, nothing to fear from monitoring of emails, nothing to fear from having a GPS in their car.

This assumes the law enforcement folks obey the law too of course. But if they don't we have a problem with or without the passing of this new bill.

However this is Canada - not a banana republic - relax!
comment of the fuckin century :ugh:

[Limited]

Anyone want to explain it a lil more? The gist I got from that incredibly boring article was that they will hand out sentences with a minimum mandatory sentence. If you are found guilty of doing X crime, you will serve X amount of of time, across the board.

There is one positive side I see, it may deter people to do said crimes and also give hope to law abiding citizens. The justice system over here is a joke with massive inconsistencies, unjust inconsistencies I might add.


This assumes the law enforcement folks obey the law too of course. But if they don't we have a problem with or without the passing of this new bill.

Also Rossmum, theres a reason law enforcement and the justice system are run separately...

Comment is serious.

[Rainbow Dash]

@ross: I am almost sure that comment is sarcastic.

@limited

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/article/1086785--10-reasons-to-oppose-bill-c-10

Also, news flash, prison time has pretty much NEVER, EVER, deterred people from performing criminal acts, and all it has ever done is make them even worse after they go through it. Unless the issues that cause negative behavior are solved in society, they will keep happening, and prisons will only make them worse.

_________________

This bill only exists to fill the prisons the conservatives decided we needed to build, that's it. Fuck these pricks.

[rossmum]

I was almost sure it was too but nine years on the internet has all but persuaded me that people are, in fact, that fucking stupid.

...And if they're not, someone else who's reading it is.


Anyone want to explain it a lil more? The gist I got from that incredibly boring article was that they will hand out sentences with a minimum mandatory sentence. If you are found guilty of doing X crime, you will serve X amount of of time, across the board.

There is one positive side I see, it may deter people to do said crimes and also give hope to law abiding citizens. The justice system over here is a joke with massive inconsistencies, unjust inconsistencies I might add.

While minimum sentences sound good on the face of things and stop dumb shit like horribly fucked up people getting released before any potential rehab can take effect, all they really do is just make previous inmates even more likely to reoffend. Combined with increasing privatisation of the prisons system, you now have yourself a prisons industry, much like the US. It becomes profitable to lock up as many people as possible as long or as often as possible, miscarriages of justice abound (because the justice system is no less fallible than anything else when money is introduced to the system), and crime just gets worse instead of better. It also means that judges can't give lighter sentences to people who are guilty of something, but had extenuating circumstances of some kind that make it less likely to be the act of a headcase or hardened criminal and more likely to be an act of desperation by someone who didn't see any other way. Big example here is lifelong abuse victims fucking their abusers up.

Basically the only thing this is guaranteed to do is make the justice system even less just but THE CHILDREN and it will also get the vote of old people who don't fucking know any better because hey, A CRIMINAL'S A CRIMINAL, THROW AWAY THE KEYS.

[TVTyrant]

Other than just changing the rules to have mandatory minimum sentences, I couldn't understand what it was doing.

Nor do I see what's wrong with a mandatory minimum sentence as long as its reasonable.

[rossmum]

Other than just changing the rules to have mandatory minimum sentences, I couldn't understand what it was doing.

Nor do I see what's wrong with a mandatory minimum sentence as long as its reasonable.
Trying to enforce mandatory minimum sentences in something called "the justice system" doesn't seem a bit odd to you?

[TVTyrant]

Trying to enforce mandatory minimum sentences in something called "the justice system" doesn't seem a bit odd to you?
I honestly have never heard anything for or against it. And no, it sounds like appropriate punishment. When someone breaks the law, the least they can be sentenced with is blank. Makes perfect sense to me.

[rossmum]

Yes, but there's a bit of difference between "I beat the shit out of my abusive spouse/parent/sibling/whatever because I was afraid and didn't know who I could turn to" and "yeah man I totally beat the shit out of that guy for fun." Enforcing minimum sentences leads to people getting what they don't deserve, and sometimes not getting what they do deserve, too. It's not unheard of for judges to just cop out of actually giving a shit by giving someone the minimum by default.

[Rainbow Dash]

I honestly have never heard anything for or against it. And no, it sounds like appropriate punishment. When someone breaks the law, the least they can be sentenced with is blank. Makes perfect sense to me.

It should be painfully obvious to everyone by now that prisons do nothing but make people worse than when they were before they went in. The only way people who exhibit socially negative behavior (note, not illegal behavior, because the legal system is pretty much a joke at this point) are going to improve is if they are rehabilitated.

[TVTyrant]

I don't believe in rehabilitation though. Not like I don't think it happens. Like I don't think it works. No other country has the number of prisoners as the US, and the number of repeat offenders is ridiculous. I blame stupidity. I agree that its a nice idea, but the time when the justice system (or the American justice system anyways) worked best was when we sentenced people to hard labor and they learned how to not be lazy shits.

Then again this thread is about Canada though and very few of these things are as applicable there.

[Phopojijo]

I don't believe in rehabilitation though. Not like I don't think it happens. Like I don't think it works. No other country has the number of prisoners as the US, and the number of repeat offenders is ridiculous. I blame stupidity. I agree that its a nice idea, but the time when the justice system (or the American justice system anyways) worked best was when we sentenced people to hard labor and they learned how to not be lazy shits.

Then again this thread is about Canada though and very few of these things are as applicable there.What does "being lazy" have anything to do with "being a criminal"? I lost your train of thought.

[=sw=warlord]

No other country has the number of prisoners as the US,
I'm Pretty sure China probably has quite a few people (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2010/jul/29/china-export-convict-labour), especially considering it has the largest mass population on the planet.

[Rainbow Dash]

I don't believe in rehabilitation though. Not like I don't think it happens. Like I don't think it works. No other country has the number of prisoners as the US, and the number of repeat offenders is ridiculous.


Wait what? There's fuck all rehabilitation in the USA (which I assume is what you're talking about), all that happens there are people being penned into overcrowded prisons and pretty much abused the entire time. That's not rehabilitation, that's violence.

[Bodzilla]

Look the thing is that most people are retarded and think a prison is meant to be a punishment.

It's not, thats not the reason they exist and it's not the law or ideal. Prisons are supposed to be all about rehabilitation, hence why we release them afterwards, because if you honestly believe that nothing will change, no matter what environment their in, why not just advocate the death penalty so they're no longer a burden to society.

The only reason it doesnt work is because we dont fucking do it right.

[rossmum]

I don't believe in rehabilitation though. Not like I don't think it happens. Like I don't think it works. No other country has the number of prisoners as the US, and the number of repeat offenders is ridiculous. I blame stupidity. I agree that its a nice idea, but the time when the justice system (or the American justice system anyways) worked best was when we sentenced people to hard labor and they learned how to not be lazy shits.

Then again this thread is about Canada though and very few of these things are as applicable there.
Rehab doesn't work in US prisons because there is no rehab in US prisons. Did you miss the part where the US has a prison industry? The last thing they want is rehab, because then they can't arrest people as soon as they get out for re-offending. Look at any country which actually does put in the effort to rehabilitate prisoners, and you will see a markedly different result.

By the way, US prisons are not so much prisons as they are concentration camps (before anyone loses their shit, the term has existed since long before WWII). They are overcrowded, those within them are treated like absolute rubbish, and there is an utter disregard for human rights and dignity. Look no further than the disgrace that is Tent City and the piece of shit that runs it, that's the perfect example right there - the best part? People who have not even been convicted yet are held in that awful, awful place just the same as those who have been.

[TVTyrant]

Look the thing is that most people are retarded and think a prison is meant to be a punishment.

It's not, thats not the reason they exist and it's not the law or ideal. Prisons are supposed to be all about rehabilitation, hence why we release them afterwards, because if you honestly believe that nothing will change, no matter what environment their in, why not just advocate the death penalty so they're no longer a burden to society.

The only reason it doesnt work is because we dont fucking do it right.
Thats fair and I can agree to this.

[TVTyrant]

What does "being lazy" have anything to do with "being a criminal"? I lost your train of thought.
Most criminals in the US are criminals for one of two reasons:
A) They become criminals because they live in a very poor area and they have to do it to get by.
B) The person in question is too lazy to get a real job so they turn to crime as a way of sustenance.

That said, I am mostly agreeing with what people are saying in this thread. I was more presenting my own knowledge (or lack thereof, I'm not very knowledgeable on this subject) to get a different perspective on it and learn something.

[Rainbow Dash]

B) The person in question is too lazy to get a real job so they turn to crime as a way of sustenance.


*looks at wall st*

America punishes that?

[TVTyrant]

*looks at wall st*

America punishes that?
Well we should. Mostly we only apply it to black people though. I wish we would apply it to those rich manipulative bastards though.