Next Xbox: 2013 & No disc drive?

[Kornman00]

I'm surprised no one posted about this (http://www.develop-online.net/news/40138/Next-Xbox-ditches-disc-drive-and-gets-2013-release) (which references this (http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/exclusive-no-disc-drive-for-next-xbox/092534)) which was posted back on the 9th.


Although the console will not include a disc drive, it will offer compatibility with some sort of interchangeable solid-state card storage, although it is not known whether this will be proprietary or a more standard format such as SD.


Furthermore, a 2013 launch date for the hardware has been confirmed.
Of course, this is still just rumor, MS isn't commenting on any of it.

I wonder if it will run Windows 8 :trollface:

e: okay, so last night this was posted: Microsoft: No Xbox 720 reveal at E3 (http://www.develop-online.net/news/40213/Microsoft-No-Xbox-720-reveal-at-E3)

[samnwck]

Hmm they couldn't just throw a drive on for shits and giggles so I can play my 360 games on the thing as well? I'm sure it'd be much easier to have a disk drive but in true Microsoft fashion, they have to try and be more complex than needed in order to shit all over people (I know they will have a way to play our old games but come on... Why be so difficult?). Needless to say, I will buy it and deal with every glitch along the way because I am a Microsoft console whore... That is all.

They think they will save a couple million on hardware, but I can almost guarantee they will end up spending shit tons of resources trying to fix whatever fix they end up coming out with...

[neuro]

don't be surprised if you can but a dvd-drive 'addon' to play older games. proprietary dvd drives only though. MONEYMONEYMONEY.

also the hardware in this thing is pretty crazy :3

[samnwck]

News of such a thing wouldn't even phase me. Do you have any specs sir? Or do you just know based upon the 3d work you are doing?

[jcap]

Good. About freaking time. I've only been saying for years this is the direction they need to head. It SUCKS for piracy, but oh well. If the flash media is done right and the rest of the console is locked down better than the 360 (the only true exploit is the JTAG hack which
as been patched), it could be impossible to pirate anything on the next Xbox.

Also, idk what neuro means by impressive specs... The only rumored secs have been that of a 3 year old desktop PC.

Of course it's not officially named yet, but:
"Why do they call it the Xbox 720?"
"Because it will play games at 720p and upscale them" :haw:

[NullZero]

Good. About freaking time. I've only been saying for years this is the direction they need to head. It SUCKS for piracy, but oh well. If the flash media is done right and the rest of the console is locked down better than the 360 (the only true exploit is the JTAG hack which
as been patched), it could be impossible to pirate anything on the next Xbox.

Also, idk what neuro means by impressive specs... The only rumored secs have been that of a 3 year old desktop PC.

Of course it's not officially named yet, but:
"Why do they call it the Xbox 720?"
"Because it will play games at 720p and upscale them" :haw:

"Why do they call it the Xbox 720?"
"Because when you see it, you'll turn 720 degrees and walk away"
:troll:

[Zeph]

I don't like the idea of a new console without a disc drive. My PS2, then xbox, then 360 has been the DVD player of my entire life. I understand there's probably a lack of desire to use Sony-tech to keep up to date since Sony could use that as a metric for tracking MS's sales, but that's detrimental to their consumer base. Microsoft has been trying to move their console into the home entertainment suite to get more sales.


Also, idk what neuro means by impressive specs... The only rumored secs have been that of a 3 year old desktop PC.
Those year old desktop specs are only now starting to pull away from consoles in quality. What do you think will happen when it gets put into a console?

[Patrickssj6]

What about BluRay? Or is it up to Sony?

[Limited]

What mass hysteria.


Furthermore, a 2013 launch date for the hardware has been confirmed.
How can it be confirmed, if its only a rumour?

Theres no fucking way that there will be no disk drive - no way AT ALL. Neuro's idea of "buy-in" addon on a drive is somewhat feasible, but to me they would fuck themselves in the foot if they didnt have one.

The whole purpose of 2010/2011 was making the Xbox an entertainment centre, making it the highlight of the room. If you make it harder to put stuff on it - people will say no and not bother. Okay they may push for the whole sync with media centre via PC, but that is not a mainstream way.

My thoughts: 2013 release? No. Disk drive-less, not on your nelly.

[jcap]

As the others have mentioned, I can see them selling a $100 add-on drive accessory. That's how I would do it. I would sell a BD drive separately which would allow you to play your BD movies, and would allow for backwards compatibility. There is no reason to increase the total cost and the BULK of the console for a single purpose that won't even be used by everyone. Who even knows if the next Xbox will be backwards compatible yet? Also, the current Xbox doesn't play blu-ray, and Microsoft hasn't made any effort to support it. I don't see any reason for them to, as long as they have the Zune video marketplace and Netflix streaming. Honestly, including a BD drive in the box would be a STUPID move.

[MXC]

So a good, hefty half of their consumer base(myself included) will be required to pay extra for a disc drive because they only have access to service providers with lousy download rates. Strong, fast, reliable internet is still very nonexistent in rural areas, and we're already paying more than those in urban areas to get a fraction of the speed and reliability they have.

This is a bad idea.

[Futzy]

So a good, hefty half of their consumer base(myself included) will be required to pay extra for a disc drive because they only have access to service providers with lousy download rates. Strong, fast, reliable internet is still very nonexistent in rural areas, and we're already paying more than those in urban areas to get a fraction of the speed and reliability they have.

This is a bad idea.
The main market for games will still be through physical media, just flash memory instead of discs. Disc drives would be a complete detractor in the new hardware without considering backwards comparability. If they go through with the no-disc scenario they will offer a DVD addon (not blu-ray because then they would have to license it from Sony, and MS backs digital media delivery as opposed to BR movies, and no 360 game would need a blu-ray player for backcompat). Windows 8 has made it incredibly easy (the only set-up required is to have your xbox on the network, connected to XBL) to push media to the xbox via a single click in the media apps.

Digital delivery of game will become a much more appreciated option, but it will not replace physical media.

[neuro]

Also, idk what neuro means by impressive specs... The only rumored secs have been that of a 3 year old desktop PC.


i'm aware of the rumor

[jcap]

So a good, hefty half of their consumer base(myself included) will be required to pay extra for a disc drive because they only have access to service providers with lousy download rates. Strong, fast, reliable internet is still very nonexistent in rural areas, and we're already paying more than those in urban areas to get a fraction of the speed and reliability they have.

This is a bad idea.
So if you include the drive, then a good, hefty half of their consumer base will be required to pay extra for a disk drive that they won't use? Really? The Xbox is a game console first, home entertainment system second. The overwhelming majority of their sales are through games, and flash media is WAY superior compared to BD. So, if they go with flash for distribution, the BD drive will be unused unless you are watching a movie. If you are primarily watching movies on your Xbox, then you should have an $80 BD player.

[Limited]

Who here has a laptop that has no disk drive. Has it been a blessing or a pain?

[MXC]

So if you include the drive, then a good, hefty half of their consumer base will be required to pay extra for a disk drive that they won't use? Really?

Whats better, half of your consumers pissed that they have to pay extra because what they bought is basically a brick, or half your consumers pissed that they payed extra for something that they won't use?

Either way your pissing off half of your consumers.

[Futzy]

Whats better, half of your consumers pissed that they have to pay extra because what they bought is basically a brick, or half your consumers pissed that they payed extra for something that they won't use?

More accurately: Whats better, half of your consumers pissed that they have to pay extra because they want to play games on hardware they weren't made for, while they likely still own the hardware that it was, and those games will all be outmoded before long, or half your consumers pissed that they payed extra for something that they won't use?

[jcap]

Whats better, half of your consumers pissed that they have to pay extra because what they bought is basically a brick, or half your consumers pissed that they payed extra for something that they won't use?
So then you buy the fucking addon drive. It's not like anyone is stopping you. Also, basically a brick? You joking? The Xbox is a GAME CONSOLE. It's plays GAMES. If you're buying the Xbox to play movies only, you deserve to be wasting your money because you're a fucking idiot for buying it in the first place.

How do you feel about paying for XBL? Are you pissed that you're being overcharged for multiplayer? They keep trying to substantiate the price AND THE HIKE IN PRICE by saying they are adding features, but the majority of the people would rather have a reduced rate if only the bullshit was taken out of XBL. I don't want Twitter, Youtube, Last.fm, ESPN, and all the other shit they "include." I don't want it, and I don't want my membership to be paying for it. Same applies to the disc drive.


Who here has a laptop that has no disk drive. Has it been a blessing or a pain?
I haven't installed anything from an optical disk in about 3 years now. I use flash drives and external hard drives for everything. I don't have to worry about losing discs, burning discs, carrying them around, or scratching them. When a new version of a program comes out, I just download it, copy the installation files to the drive, and plug it into a computer. Even for Windows and Linux installations, I boot from USB. It's way faster and results in way less waste.

[MXC]

More accurately: Whats better, half of your consumers pissed that they have to pay extra because they want to play games on hardware they weren't made for, while they likely still own the hardware that it was, and those games will all be outmoded before long, or half your consumers pissed that they payed extra for something that they won't use?

Forgive me if I'm misreading you, but I read that as people looking for backwards compatibility. First off, I was talking about purchasing physical copies of new games when downloading takes a freakin' week for some, and second, how many people with a PS3 are still using their PS1/PS2 to play their games?

[Limited]

The original Xbox 360 DVD drive cost $21 and cost roughly a total of $715 in parts.

[jcap]

Forgive me if I'm misreading you, but I read that as people looking for backwards compatibility. First off, I was talking about purchasing physical copies of new games when downloading takes a freakin' week for some, and second, how many people with a PS3 are still using their PS1/PS2 to play their games?
Oh, well in that case...

Physical games would still be shipped on flash media. I'm not ruling out physical media completely. I would HATEHATEHAHTEHAHET for console games to go completely digital downloads. I still want to buy all my games physically, and I know Microsoft wouldn't prohibit that.

[Futzy]

Forgive me if I'm misreading you, but I read that as people looking for backwards compatibility. First off, I was talking about purchasing physical copies of new games when downloading takes a freakin' week for some, and second, how many people with a PS3 are still using their PS1/PS2 to play their games?

People still play backwards compatable game at all? I haven't heard of anyone playing any xbox 1 games on the 360 since the first year or so of good games started coming out. As I said, it gets outmoded before you throw out the old console.
Please point me to where I ever said that physical distribution of games will end? I never did. It would be absolutely stupid. Discs themselves have been outmoded by every new peice of gaming hardware that has games delivered on flash memory.

[=sw=warlord]

The way things are going physical media is going to become less common.
With brick and mortar shops having issues with publishers like Activision withholding stock to a day prior to release I wouldn't be surprised if the street stores begin going down.
Currently we have online passes to stop resale or at least earn money from said resale, publishers charging huge amounts from the stores themselves, Shopto an Etailer has actually ceased the option to pre-order future call of duty games because they were charging £28` for the game only to find it would cost them around £34 to buy the stock itself to then sell on.
Said pre-orders being price guaranteed, even with boosting the price after finding the actual stock price they still lost profit.

[RedBaron]

LOL guess the consumers of physical media are going to accumulate MASSIVE amounts of flash drives, hahaha. To the point where the flash drive market is going to inflate and go kaboom :neckbeard:

[paladin]

So then you buy the fucking addon drive. It's not like anyone is stopping you. Also, basically a brick? You joking? The Xbox is a GAME CONSOLE. It's plays GAMES.

...But what about my $1000 worth of Xbox/360 games?

[Futzy]

LOL guess the consumers of physical media are going to accumulate MASSIVE amounts of flash drives, hahaha. To the point where the flash drive market is going to inflate and go kaboom :neckbeard:
This is a terrible argument, and would have been used against CDs when they started getting used. Flash drive containers will not be standard USB controllers, they would rather be proprietary SD connections like what the 3DS and PSV have.

[jcap]

...But what about my $1000 worth of Xbox/360 games?
First of all, IF the console even supports backwards compatibility at all, then just buy the drive. Again, no one is preventing you. And to be honest, how is it any different from the 360 upon release? You needed a $100 hard drive for backwards compatibility to work. TBH that was horseshit since all games were gimped because of the lack of a hard drive (and they finally realized it like 5 years later), but the point is that it would be the same scenario if an external drive is available.

Also, backwards compatibility is not a right, and sometimes its more trouble than its worth. The differences in hardware mean you need to result to software emulation, which limits the catalog of games that can be backwards compatible to only a handful. You have an Xbox 360 to play Xbox 360 games. Plus, when the next console comes out, everyone is going to switch over to the next big games.

The PS2 has a MASSIVE game library. When the PS3 came out, it originally supported PS2 games. Shortly after, Sony removed the extra bloat since the PS3 library was growing and slashed the price of both the PS2 and PS3. "What about all those games?" Well, if you want to play them, you use a PS2. But how often do you actually find yourself playing those games anymore?

[Bodzilla]

"Why do they call it the Xbox 720?"
"Because when you see it, you'll turn 720 degrees and walk away"
:troll:
you do realize it's impossible to turn 720 degrees and walk away yeah?

[=sw=warlord]

you do realize it's impossible to turn 720 degrees and walk away yeah?
:lmao:
Bout time someone realized

[PopeAK49]

you do realize it's impossible to turn 720 degrees and walk away yeah?

:cwazy:

I'm taking this quote.

[NullZero]

you do realize it's impossible to turn 720 degrees and walk away yeah?
:)

[nuttyyayap]

you do realize it's impossible to turn 720 degrees and walk away yeah?
Yeah, the 360 was meant to make you turn around and walk off but the 720 will make you come back no matter what :realsmug:

[Patrickssj6]

Yeah, the 360 was meant to make you turn around and walk off but the 720 will make you come back no matter what :realsmug:
xDD

when you turn 720 in australia you are suddenly upside down

[TVTyrant]

Laughing so hard lol

Shit was hilarious

[samnwck]

Yeah, the 360 was meant to make you turn around and walk off but the 720 will make you come back no matter what :realsmug:

... You do realize that to turn around at all you'd need 180 degrees, if you turn 360 you are back in the same position as you were originally...

And yes I still do Xbox games at least a few times a year, usually to do a Kotor I/II playthrough at least once or twice per year. But granted I guess I'll just end up keeping around the Xbox 360, you have a valid point that the amount of use of old games really won't make much sense in adding a whole new drive if you're trying to get away from them. That said, I was really hoping to get a Blu-ray Player in this console :/ I hate only having my pc be the only thing with a Blu-ray player.

[Zeph]

*facepalm*
the point was to turn around and stomp on the shit. you keep going and suddenly you're walking away.

[Cortexian]

Or better yet, why don't they just make something that lets us play all console games on PC? You know, like officially released emulators that you need to pirate buy. Then you just pop your game in or download it like everyone else.

Then us PC elitists can still enjoy our updated content (graphics, etc) if the developers include them and can play with console players. Then proceed to destroy the shit out of them in literally all online matches thus provoking a massive rush to PC gaming for everyone.

[Champ]

I think someone may have mentioned this elsewhere on the forums, but I don't see it here. Rumor is you won't be able to play used games on the new Xbox.

[TVTyrant]

I think someone may have mentioned this elsewhere on the forums, but I don't see it here. Rumor is you won't be able to play used games on the new Xbox.
Been mentioned in other threads, but yeah. It is worth stating again.

[samnwck]

Been mentioned in other threads, but yeah. It is worth stating again.

Yes, time to start sharpening the pitchforks, I honestly hope they won't do this... But of course they will.. Why wouldn't they?

[Zeph]

I think someone may have mentioned this elsewhere on the forums, but I don't see it here. Rumor is you won't be able to play used games on the new Xbox.
Depends on the methods used. The crap that the anti-piracy industry wanted to use actually rewrote the disc you use with a console-specific code blocking that disk from being used on any other console. They seem to have understood how stupid that idea was and moved to keycode based systems for online based content. It's unlikely that they'll ever get anything like that for single player simply because it would require online connectivity for their non-free service.

[TVTyrant]

IDC which system I buy next gen really. Unless Halo 4 is really, really good I will buy whichever console is cheaper upon shipment. I only really play multi-platform games anyways, and lately I have spent more time playing CS than I have playing my 360.

[jcap]

Flash media would actually allow games to have keys stored on them. This would make it possible to control piracy, while being completely transparent to the end user. It would also allow you to copy the game to your hard drive, since it would copy the key with it. If this is done right, reselling of games could be possible IN THEORY.

If everything was perfect, you would be able to make the console "associate" a key with a gamertag every time it loads a game from physical media. This would allow you to copy a game to your console and play it without the flash card in it. If you ever go to another console or load the game on another gamertag connected to XBL, it would revoke access to the key from the old account and associate it with the new one. It would be impossible to get the key back on the other account UNLESS they have the physical flash card. It's like perfect, except for one major flaw I just thought of...

You aren't going to be able to stop people from reading the flash. Even if you use third party proprietary connectors, a proprietary filesystem, encryption, whatever.....it will still be cracked. Now, with discs it's no big deal that you can read it, but it could be a major problem with flash. Even if the partitions are encrypted and signed and everything, you don't need to be able to peek inside or modify the contents to pirate something. If you can dump the raw contents of each partition, you can now flash that to a blank chip and play. Even if there is a special chip that says "I am an Xbox game" which differentiates it from regular flash media (like Xbox controllers and memory cards), there's BOUND to be third party devices that would allow you to swap out flash chips mounted on a legit flash card PCB. This would destroy the reselling market, since you'd lose control and an honest buyer could be screwed out of their legit purchase.

The only way around this would probably be to include some special key on a ROM chip of each flash media, which is then somehow associated with the encrypted or signed partition. It would mean that the partition could never be read and put onto another device, or at least the trouble to do so for every game may not be worth the effort.

[Amit]

Jfrappuccino is overthinking this.

[DarkHalo003]

IDC which system I buy next gen really. Unless Halo 4 is really, really good I will buy whichever console is cheaper upon shipment. I only really play multi-platform games anyways, and lately I have spent more time playing CS than I have playing my 360.
Well Halo 4 will be on the 360. The next Xbox will not be revealed this year.

[Zeph]

Can't really overthink what's standard. If it does come in the form of flash media, piracy rates will rise from the ease of access.

[jcap]

If it comes in the form of flash, piracy rates will be eliminated IF you sacrifice the reselling market. Well, playing pirated games online at least. If a unique product key is shipped on the flash, XBL should limit one game access to the key at a time (similar to Halo PC/CE servers). If you play multiplayer with the same key in multiple locations, it either rejects you (could cause problems) or kicks out the other session (better). However, as I said in my :longpost:, if you dump the key of a game, you would theoretically be able to flash it to another chip. You could end up with a poisoned resale market from people buy games, dump the keys, and return the games.

[TeeKup]

Jfrappuccino is overthinking this.

HAH! That;s a new one, I'll be using this.

[Zeph]

Well, that's not really games being sold, but "real" licenses. The only way you can legally resale a license is to verify that you absolutely have no access to the license after the sale. If MS defines the licenses as non-transferable post registration, you eliminate the possibility of resale.

Even then, I've yet to see a system that works out well for that unless it completely excludes offline activity. Speaking of the keys themselves, a |24|base36 code provides plenty of leeway when it comes to number of valid codes versus invalid dummies. But if they make one system for that, I doubt they'll try to keep it separate from the rest of their model. This would be a perfect outlet for retail to get XBLA and Zune acess. If that's the case, the current library approaches that uncomfortable zone of running out of codes. You could bump the cardinality up to 28, but if you're doing that you might as well go up to 32 and have the extra leeway for any expansion to the bussiness.

So, what's a good way to encrypt a 256-bit key?

[Mr Buckshot]

if this is true, how long will it take before we see something similar to how piracy is done on the Nintendo DS (typically a special micro SD reader that the DS will see as a game cartridge)? Currently warranty-voiding hard mods are needed for a 360 to read burned DVDs, and if DS-style piracy can emerge without having to hard-mod the console, there's going to be problems since a lot more people have incentive to pirate.

personally I think they'll continue to use discs for such reasons, plus it's also far cheaper to produce discs than to make flash media.


Who here has a laptop that has no disk drive. Has it been a blessing or a pain?

I don't know how a laptop could possibly work without a disk drive (unless you don't count SSDs as disk drives). However, I have survived for over 3 years without touching my disc drive in my laptop or desktop! In fact, I've modded my laptop's disc drive bay to accommodate a second disk drive which is way more useful.

[Zeph]

personally I think they'll continue to use discs for such reasons, plus it's also far cheaper to produce discs than to make flash media.

You have any idea how pissed off I got when I had to switch between disks on Mass Effect 3? It'll be less about costs and more about how much you can fit on a disk. Cost of flash memory is stupidly low now that there's actually a market for it. 16GB flash cards are as low as 10 USD/unit for consumer retail and by the time you take into consideration the sheer volume associated with massing for games, it'll drop considerably.


I don't know how a laptop could possibly work without a disk drive.

Macbook Airs. How do they work?

[Warsaw]

They don't, they run OS X.

:haw:

[Mr Buckshot]

You have any idea how pissed off I got when I had to switch between disks on Mass Effect 3? It'll be less about costs and more about how much you can fit on a disk. Cost of flash memory is stupidly low now that there's actually a market for it. 16GB flash cards are as low as 10 USD/unit for consumer retail and by the time you take into consideration the sheer volume associated with massing for games, it'll drop considerably.



Macbook Airs. How do they work?

wow, someone didn't catch my joke about the difference between a disk drive and a disc drive.

not trying to put down anyone about "bad spelling" or whatever, sorry if I made a bad joke I guess.

[Kornman00]

Nice thing about flash media is that they're always getting better (smaller, higher capacity). If they want to make their next Xbox last even longer, having their game storage medium be expandable will help. Plus, less games are actually shipping with a game manual insert so we could start seeing console game boxes the size of handheld games. They'll still probably jack the price up to some bullshit 70$ though.

[Zeph]

sorry if I made a bad joke I guess.
I think you gave me cancer.

[DarkHalo003]

They don't, they run OS X.

:haw:
Hehehe

[Amit]

Idiots will lose their flash cards unless they are the size of 3.5" floppy disks.

[Kornman00]

You say that like it's a bad thing. We don't need idiots on XBL.

[=sw=warlord]

Idiots will lose their flash cards unless they are the size of 3.5" floppy disks.
People who have Gameboys don't seem to be having too much issue remembering where they put their flash cards.
:allears:

[DarkHalo003]

People who have Gameboys don't seem to be having too much issue remembering where they put their flash cards.
:allears:
:realsmug:

[TVTyrant]

People who have Gameboys don't seem to be having too much issue remembering where they put their flash cards.
:allears:
I have lost so many damn gameboy games lol

[Warsaw]

I have washed so many damn Gameboy games...and they all still work.

No used games on console = no buy console for me. I want to have the option of rubbing it in to crappy devs by playing their games at a substantial or total loss to them, ​legally.

[=sw=warlord]

I have lost so many damn gameboy games lol
Back in the day with my old block I never lost any cartridges.
I suppose if you're not careful could lose your games but if you're that careless you probably deserve it.

[TVTyrant]

Back in the day with my old block I never lost any cartridges.
I suppose if you're not careful could lose your games but if you're that careless you probably deserve it.
It was usually because I'd shelve them for three years at a time and then go looking for them.

[Amit]

People who have Gameboys don't seem to be having too much issue remembering where they put their flash cards.
:allears:

That's because they have sense and cherish that shit! You think a consolefag cares what happens to his discs? I've seen a few and not one give a shit. Hell I know a guy who went out and bought a second copy of Modern Warfare 2 because his original fell behind the couch and he didn't want to move it. I told him it's a sign to stop playing shitty video games. He laughed as if it was a joked and proceeded to go buy a new copy that same day. CoD is a drug now.

[DarkHalo003]

Losing a Gameboy or a Gameboy game is seriously heartbreaking. Actually, for me, losing any game is serious, but I notice particularly that with Gameboy games I'm far more disappointed when I can't find them then for a console game.

[TeeKup]

I take care of my discs like they're engraved with diamond. >_>

[Hotrod]

That's because they have sense and cherish that shit! You think a consolefag cares what happens to his discs? I've seen a few and not one give a shit. Hell I know a guy who went out and bought a second copy of Modern Warfare 2 because his original fell behind the couch and he didn't want to move it. I told him it's a sign to stop playing shitty video games. He laughed as if it was a joked and proceeded to go buy a new copy that same day. CoD is a drug now.
Now now, don't go assuming that every console gamer is like that. I treat my games as though they're worth a million dollars, and I'm not stupid enough to buy a second copy of a game unless there really isn't anything I can do about it. The only time I ever bought a second copy was for Halo 3, and that's because my brother moved out and took the game with him.