Competition vs Collaboration

[Rainbow Dash]

yvkM4VhBp0M

[Warsaw]

Complacency and entitlement are cancers killing our society.

[n00b1n8R]

Complacency and entitlement are cancers killing our society..

[Rainbow Dash]

Complacency and entitlement are cancers killing our society.

what degree of entitlement are we talking here, the entitlement to a habbitable planet, or entitlement to a 200 room mansion?

[Limited]

Sel, usually your 'wacky' threads have some truth in them and looking at them from a certain angle you can agree with the points - not so on this one.

Competition makes us evolve, it makes us improve and become better.


This thread is a cancer to our society.

[Rainbow Dash]

Sel, usually your 'wacky' threads have some truth in them and looking at them from a certain angle you can agree with the points - not so on this one.

Competition makes us evolve, it makes us improve and become better.


This thread is a cancer to our society.

Did you even listen to the presentation?

Like really if all you can say to a 40 minute presentation is, "This is bullshit mang", then shit, how can anyone debate that?

[Higuy]

I think the problem is that no one would actually care to watch a 40 minute long youtube video on how competition is derailing society.

Personally, from what it sounds like, I'd side with Limited on this one.

[Rainbow Dash]

I think the problem is that no one would actually care to watch a 40 minute long youtube video on how competition is derailing society.

Personally, from what it sounds like, I'd side with Limited on this one.

With limited on what? You're too lazy to watch a presentation that isn't even an hour long? I hate to break it to you but that attitude is a huge reason why our society is so fucked. If your attention span is too short to stand anything over 5 minutes, then you're already screwed mate!

Like, do you not see the sheer ridiculousness of waltzing into this thread, not even watching the content, and then going, "hurr hurr you're wrong sel"?

[El Lobo]

I would also be interested in doing the same thing.

[ICEE]

Yeah guys, your reluctance to take a random brony's word for it and watch a 40 minute video is THE CANCER THAT'S KILLING SOCIETY. Except oh wait, it isn't a random brony. It's Sel. A guy who always posts outlandish crap. Yep I definitely feel assured that this is a solid way to spend the better part of the next hour.

Sorry dude just not feelin it.

[DarkHalo003]

You're only entitled to things that were willed to you by others or things you legitimately earn yourself. Otherwise, no one is entitled to anything.

[Rainbow Dash]

It's Sel. A guy who always posts outlandish crap.

Yeah man, me and my posts saying things like, "Hey guys, maybe society isn't designed in a particularly great way and we could probably improve it.". Yeah man, that's fucking batshit insanity right there.

[Higuy]

5 minutes isn't even close to 40. And its that I don't have a "attn spand", its that I actually have common sense to realize competition is indeed beneficial.

[Rainbow Dash]

5 minutes isn't even close to 40. And its that I don't have a "attn spand", its that I actually have common sense to realize competition is indeed beneficial.

The only sense you're using right now, is the one that identifies information that may make you question your beliefs, and actively avoids it.

[Donut]

Yeah man, me and my posts saying things like, "Hey guys, maybe society isn't designed in a particularly great way and we could probably improve it.". Yeah man, that's fucking batshit insanity right there.
-this thread
-http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?24353-capitalism-and-monetary-incentives-are-detrimental-to-the-arts
-http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?24307-Athens-buildings-burn-down-Athens-stock-index-goes-up!
-http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?24386-Technological-unemployment

we get it, Sel. youre raising some valid points here, but youre being really fucking obnoxious while doing so. this thread is a pretty good example. youre all fired up about something, post a 40 minute video, and criticize us for not having the patience to watch it. even the title of this thread (the :] emote, in case youre gonna try to be cute with me again.) shows that youre just trying to rattle people's chains here. im not saying youre wrong, because most of the stuff youve brought up is important, and ive been finding myself agreeing with a lot of it. but you cant seriously sit there and pretend that its unreasonable for somebody to want to do something other than watch a 40 minute presentation on a topic i think most of us disagree with anyway.

[Rainbow Dash]

I have zero problem with people not watching the video, what I have a problem with is how these people are crawling out of the woodwork, saying, "too long; didn't watch", and then saying it's all wrong because it's common sense says so, or some equally flimsy reasoning.

[Cortexian]

http://i.imgur.com/khtOV.jpg

[PopeAK49]

You can't ever stop competition from happening. Its our natural mindset to either adapt and become better or give up and die. This same logic can also apply to ideas.

I admit that I did not watch the video, I'm more focused on becoming better at madden 12 so I can keep up with the "competition".


Image

I literally had to go to the bathroom and take a long piss because I laughed so hard.

[TVTyrant]

Watched about 20 minutes of it

Didn't agree with a single thing the guy said because hes ignoring nature

Guy obviously has had everything handed to him in life and has never worked hard

Not as is in going to college, I mean with his body

Competition drives the universe around us, and while its not fun for those less skilled, for some of us its genuinely enjoyable

The living beyond our means thing is just annoying and I'm tired of hearing about it. Maybe Africa should go invent some fucking tools so they can get out of their shitty "entrapments"

The West is successful because of competition. We didn't invent steam engines and cars and muskets and cannons and airplanes and modern medicine because we wanted to share it with everybody and we felt so bad

I don't disregard what Sel and the man in the video are saying I just don't agree with it.

[DarkHalo003]

Competition makes things fun. Without it, life would be boring.

[nuttyyayap]

^^That I can't deny, but without it we wouldn't tear each other apart for the simplest things.

[Rainbow Dash]

Didn't agree with a single thing the guy said because hes ignoring nature

huh, first off, literally 99% of what he says is cited from scientific studies, your agreement doesn't change their results. Also the part around 13 minutes where he specifically addresses human nature (which I can prove by opening almost any of my previous threads), and the cop-out way it's used to explain behaviors we can't figure out the cause for.



Guy obviously has had everything handed to him in life and has never worked hard

Not as is in going to college, I mean with his body

lol...



Competition drives the universe around us, and while its not fun for those less skilled, for some of us its genuinely enjoyable

First off, no, it drives the world, second, I should have made this clearer, but there is a huge gap between some fun competition in a game of baseball, and the competition that literally destroys people's lives in this socio-economic system.



The West is successful because of competition. We didn't invent steam engines and cars and muskets and cannons and airplanes and modern medicine because we wanted to share it with everybody and we felt so bad


Uhm, what? The Wright Brothers, Albert Einstein, Nikola Tesla, Carl Sagan, etc etc, most scientific discoveries that allowed for huge advancements in our society never showed any competitive, or monetary incentive to do so. They did it because they loved working with science. Also huh The west invented none of those things. First off, people did, and only in the case of the the Airplane with the Wright brothers did they even live in North America.

[MXC]

This is a result of competition.
http://cdn.babble.com/strollerderby/files/2011/07/space_shuttle_launch.jpg

[=sw=warlord]

No, That's the result of decades worth of scientific research in astro-physics and aerodynamic physics.

[MXC]

No, That's the result of decades worth of scientific research in astro-physics and aerodynamic physics.


Space Race, man. Space Race.

[Higuy]

No, MXC is right. It's becuase of competition. During the cold war the Soviet's launched Sputnik which ignited the space race between them and the US, AKA a competition as to who could get to the moon and who could have better rockets. The cold war led to many technological advances becuase of competition.

[Rainbow Dash]

This is a result of competition.
http://cdn.babble.com/strollerderby/files/2011/07/space_shuttle_launch.jpg

And this is a result of collaboration.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/STS-134_International_Space_Station_after_undocking.jp g

[t3h m00kz]

Oh lawd

Is dis some Hipster talk?

Linux! Indie rock! Crush the industry!

Anarchy all the way!!

[MXC]

And this is a result of collaboration.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/STS-134_International_Space_Station_after_undocking.jp g

CCCP:"We put a working satellite into space!"

USA: "SHIT, NO WAY"

CCCP: "Yes way. U Jelly?"

USA: "FFFFFFF, oh yeah, well we got one to-"

CCCP: "YURI GAGARIN"

USA: ಠ_ಠ
CCCP: :bunchies:

USA: "I bet we can beat you to the moon"

CCCP: "You're on, capitalist pig, and just you wait, we'll have better color televisions too-"

USA: *hands telescope* "See that flag up there?"

CCCP: "Yeah.."

USA: "What colors are on it?"

CCCP: "YOU DIDN'T"

USA: :realsmug:

CCCP: "Oh shit, we're out of money."

USA: "Pull your shit together and we'll talk later. Maybe you can put the bathroom on this space house we're planning."

[TVTyrant]

Oh lawd

Is dis some Hipster talk?

Linux! Indie rock! Crush the industry!

Anarchy all the way!!
<3

[Rainbow Dash]

Linux

Another great example of collaboration winning out over competition.

@mxc Sure you can pull out examples like that all you want, but with literally nothing to compare it to it's totally meaningless. You can not go and deny collaboration beating out competition because one time when people competed they got a good result, for all you know had they collaborated in the first place they would have gotten an even better one.

[=sw=warlord]

Space Race, man. Space Race.
And yet the space race wasn't initiated by competition.
As I recall curiosity was what got sputnik into space.
The achievements made out of curiosity have had some of the greatest impacts.
Don't forget if it wasn't curiosity we would all still believe the earth was flat.

[t3h m00kz]

only in the first world do we have to worry about which company is winning out over the others and not about starvation, rape and mass murder

stay classy, first world

[TVTyrant]

only in the first world do we have to worry about which company is winning out over the others and not about starvation, rape and mass murder

stay classy, first world
lol

Only in m00kz' world do we worry about when we are going to be attacked by the reptillian furries

stay classy m00kz

[Rainbow Dash]

Oh also as an addendum to the space race example, let's not forget that the entire thing was still collaboration driven anyway, they just refused to do it on a global level because of fear : )

[PopeAK49]

lol

Only in m00kz' world do we worry about when we are going to be attacked by the reptillian furries

stay classy m00kz

:nigel:......












:gar:

[MXC]

Yeah, you tell all the artists out there looking for jobs that they aren't competing with each other for job positions. And good luck convinving those who already have jobs that they aren't competing to keep them.


Right.

Collaboration creates great things, yes, but 99% of the time there is a silent motive of people betting themselves from someone else.

[Rainbow Dash]

Yeah, you tell all the artists out there looking for jobs that they aren't competing with each other for job positions. And good luck convinving those who already have jobs that they aren't competing to keep them.


lmao

what the fuck are you even talking about?

No shit people in this system compete when the system forces them to do so?

[DarkHalo003]

Simply saying "Competition" is not sufficient as it is too vague. Competition generally doesn't ruin society because it is inherent for humans to compete with each other, friendly or not. Sports, for instance, is a collection of competitions that humans partake in to demonstrate their abilities in a respectful manner (ideally and hopefully). And yes, the reason why we have many technological advancements in the post-modern era (think computers) is because of competition, but that isn't your argument now is it Sel?

By what dimensions are you specifically talking about competition? That video is of a man speaking out of his own limited perspective, but are you suggesting the world would be a better place if humans didn't compete for the sake of survival? Competition is a psychological drive essentially that happens upon each individual's accord; whether you like it or not, it is ingrained in human nature.

[PopeAK49]

human nature.

Exactly.

[Rainbow Dash]

Competition generally doesn't ruin society because it is inherent for humans to compete with each other

No it's not, stop spouting this cop out argument for why most people behave competitively.



Sports, for instance, is a collection of competitions that humans partake in to demonstrate their abilities in a respectful manner (ideally and hopefully).


First off, no, it drives the world, second, I should have made this clearer, but there is a huge gap between some fun competition in a game of baseball, and the competition that literally destroys people's lives in this socio-economic system.



And yes, the reason why we have many technological advancements in the post-modern era (think computers) is because of competition, but that isn't your argument now is it Sel?

Again you're going, "Oh look, our technology has improved, so therefore competition is to credit, this is just as absurd as when King tried to credit Capitalism for technological advancement, and I've already addressed the vast majority of scientific advancements (warlord did too) in a previous post.



By what dimensions are you specifically talking about competition? That video is of a man speaking out of his own limited perspective, but are you suggesting the world would be a better place if humans didn't compete for the sake of survival? Competition is a psychological drive essentially that happens upon each individual's accord; whether you like it or not, it is ingrained in human nature.

Competition occurred pre post-scarcity because at some point it was required for survival. You obviously have no understanding of what human nature actually is.


Human nature refers to the distinguishing characteristics, including ways of thinking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking), feeling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feeling) and acting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agency_(philosophy)), that humans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humans) tend to have naturally. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_(philosophy))

Saying humans are competitive by nature when they're forced into a socio-economic system which rewards, and requires competitive behavior (and only does so to further propagate the system) is ludicrous.

Of all the groups, this one should know best of all that collaboration consistently produces better results than competition. Imagine if CMT, and Zteam had gone, "fuck you, we're not going to share our resources, information and expertise.", We would have had vastly inferior results from both. Imagine if Team Lumoria never existed and all the people in it had gone and done their own thing, we never would have had Lumoria. Imagine the OS team had refused to work together and instead all went out to make their own HCE extensions? Remember back to the colossal failure that was the Monthly Modeling Competition. I really should not have to continue here.

[ICEE]

Yeah man, me and my posts saying things like, "Hey guys, maybe society isn't designed in a particularly great way and we could probably improve it.". Yeah man, that's fucking batshit insanity right there.

It's not that, it's just the way you present this stuff in confrontational manner. That combined with your ponyboy gait make reading your posts a chore. How do I know if I'm supposed to take you seriously or shrug you off as a troll?

The thing is I respect you as an artist and have enjoyed working with you in the past. But then there are these episodes of obnoxiousness.

[DarkHalo003]

No it's not, stop spouting this cop out argument for why most people behave competitively.

Again you're going, "Oh look, our technology has improved, so therefore competition is to credit, this is just as absurd as when King tried to credit Capitalism for technological advancement, and I've already addressed the vast majority of scientific advancements (warlord did too) in a previous post.

Competition occurred pre post-scarcity because at some point it was required for survival. You obviously have no understanding of what human nature actually is.

Saying humans are competitive by nature when they're forced into a socio-economic system which rewards, and requires competitive behavior (and only does so to further propagate the system) is ludicrous.

So by "Competition" you mean Socio-Economic competition? Then change the title of this thread to reflect so. You are correct in that the current Socio-Economic competition is created by society. However, to refute that any competition is outside of human nature is a misguided conjecture, though I am assuming the competition that you say is not by human nature is induced by society, which in case I can agree with you.

Now to say that many technological advancements were not made as a result of competition is ridiculously ignorant. Yes, there was collaboration, but there was also competition, maybe not with other people, but with other forces (such as time). You also treat that eveyr part of human nature is "required" or must churn for any action/idea to occur. This concept is misguided and can refutable on many circumstances, but then again this is not a topic about what human nature is.

[PopeAK49]

Is it not human nature to reproduce and do anything in order to achieve that goal? In this case, any means of survival? Suvival is the ultimate goal, profit, or prize in terms of competition. In your dream world of 'equality', I still believe competition even at a small scale would be present. The thing about an equal world that I love is that it could bring simplicity and allow us to live happy lives, so maybe it is simplicity and happiness that can minimize competition.

[Mr Buckshot]

One look at Canadian cellular networks and my mind is already made up on competition vs collaboration...

[Rainbow Dash]

So by "Competition" you mean Socio-Economic competition?

I mean competition in general, there are obviously exceptions(like most sports or BOINC members competing to process the most data), but that issue would take a very very long time to conclude, if we were to discuss it.



However, to refute that any competition is outside of human nature is a misguided conjecture

The only thing that we can seriously call human nature, are things that are based around universal human needs. Such as the need to eat, sleep, be loved, and so on. There is no human need to compete, therefore it is not human nature.



Now to say that many technological advancements were not made as a result of competition is ridiculously ignorant.

Good thing no one here is saying that.



Yes, there was collaboration, but there was also competition, maybe not with other people, but with other forces (such as time).

You're misunderstanding me, I'm not saying that competition flat out prevents all advancement, I'm saying that, in general, we've seen that the quality of the advancement becomes better the higher the level of collaboration is. For instance, if we had a society where no one worked together, we probably would have a very slow level of advancement, if any at all, as opposed to a society where everyone works together to contribute as best they can.

Meanwhile competition generally tends bring about negative effects, such as those caused by rushing, for instance, the Apollo program had it's fair share of massive failures caused by the corner cutting that resulted from rushing to beat the Russians.

[t3h m00kz]

so many words in this thread.

didn't read lol

[=sw=warlord]

Is it not human nature to reproduce and do anything in order to achieve that goal? In this case, any means of survival?
Actually no, it's not.
Say for instance you had never heard of reproduction and never knew it even existed even if you had the capability, would you have still had the desire embedded into your being even without the knowledge of its existence?

E: More to the point, if it's human nature to want to breed, how to do you explain Homosexuals?

[Donut]

i propose a solution to this conflict: lets all pitch in and buy sel an island somewhere, let him establish his own system, and see what happens. at this point im genuinely curious how that would work out.

[Rainbow Dash]

i propose a solution to this conflict: lets all pitch in and buy sel an island somewhere, let him establish his own system, and see what happens. at this point im genuinely curious how that would work out.

The only way we're going to solve today's issues is by establishing unity through education. Anyone can build a great new system, but if people don't understand the reasons why we need a new system, then nothing will be solved simply by it's creation.

[Bodzilla]

i personally love competition.

you try to learn a skill completely on your own, over having someone to compete with.
you'll notice you learn it ALOT faster in a competitive environment.

[t3h m00kz]

sel I think ponies are becoming too mainstream for ya bro

holy fuck I'm such an internet asshole!! :{

[PopeAK49]

Actually no, it's not.
Say for instance you had never heard of reproduction and never knew it even existed even if you had the capability, would you have still had the desire embedded into your being even without the knowledge of its existence?

E: More to the point, if it's human nature to want to breed, how to do you explain Homosexuals?

I really do not want to do in-depth with how intercourse or puberty works. I would be awstrucked if you told me homosexuals never have sex or some kind of sexual drive. You don't have to know about reproduction in order to already have the instincts and natural ability to achieve a sexual drive. Unless you have a mental disability, all humans will naturally have a sexual drive and compete in order to achieve a mate let it be of the opposite sex or same sex.

[Warsaw]

The entire folly of this argument is that it is, in and of itself, competitive.

[DarkHalo003]

Lol.

[t3h m00kz]

The entire folly of this argument is that it is, in and of itself, competitive.

Mind

blown

[TVTyrant]

Mind

blown
Every post you make

Every word you type

I'll be watching you

:nigel:

[rossmum]

Yeah guys, your reluctance to take a random brony's word for it and watch a 40 minute video is THE CANCER THAT'S KILLING SOCIETY. Except oh wait, it isn't a random brony. It's Sel. A guy who always posts outlandish crap. Yep I definitely feel assured that this is a solid way to spend the better part of the next hour.

Sorry dude just not feelin it.
lol, outlandish crap

lol

[Cortexian]

A mostly-accurate statement.

[Rainbow Dash]

A mostly-accurate statement.

Is that what you think, or what they'd want you to think ; )

[El Lobo]

Who are they?

[Cortexian]

I was refering to the outlandish crap.