Marine gets Other-than-Honorable Discharge after criting Obama

[Higuy]

Complete BS.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/25/gary-stein-marine-obama-facebook_n_1453031.html?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl2|sec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D155268

Discuss.

[TVTyrant]

Not even the W pulled this kind of crap

What a fucking load of shit.

[Higuy]

The comments on that news article are also outrageous, saying things like "he deserves it" and "dont you know your give up freedom of speech when enlisting?". I mean, WHAT THE FUCK? If its anyone in this country that should be able to criticize the president IS the armed forces, for they are the force fighting, not Obama.

[=sw=warlord]

Soldier, you forget you are an asset. No Freedom of Peach for you. Drop down and give me... awww. You're a civilian now.

.


You can be fired from any job if you're caught slandering and being insubordinate to your boss, this just happens to be his boss is the president.
People get fired over bashing their boss over Facebook all the time, only thing is who was being bashed and the job the person bashing the person had.

[Roostervier]

I'm not gonna say this is right, but I mean he probably should've known better. I'm in the Army and I don't have much to say anymore when it comes to the president (whoever it may be, not just Obama). I figured keeping your mouth shut is kinda common sense.

[Amit]

The comments in that article is full of retards. One guy even says that Obama would do away with all branches of the military if he could. Have you ever heard of such lunacy?


Not even the W pulled this kind of crap

What a fucking load of shit.

Did Obama give the order to have this guy discharged? If not, why bash Obama? It was the Marine Corps. that acted, not Obama...unless he really did give the order, which I highly doubt.

[DarkHalo003]

But he promised change!

[Boba]

uh

you do realize you sign a contract to go into the military, effectively signing your rights away? and on top of that he is openly criticizing a superior officer? break the rules get fucked

seriously don't be stupid

[DarkHalo003]

I mean, it's easy to see the frustration in all of this, mainly that the military is enforcing the soldiers to respect the commander-in-chief (respectfully). However, I feel that begin "Other-than-Honorably Discharged" for this is a bit much.

[RedBaron]

I'm wondering if everyone actually read the whole article:


"The Marine Corps gave him the opportunity to think about his actions, yet Sgt. Stein continued to undermine the chain of command," said Umberg, who was not involved in Stein's case. "I think his purpose was to leave the Marine Corps in a dramatic fashion in order to begin a career in talk radio or what have you."


During a hearing, a military prosecutor submitted screen grabs of Stein's postings on one Facebook page he created called Armed Forces Tea Party, which the prosecutor said included the image of Obama on a "Jackass" movie poster. Stein also superimposed Obama's image on a poster for "The Incredibles" movie that he changed to "The Horribles," military prosecutor Capt. John Torresala said.

It's not like he wasn't warned. He had this coming from a long ways out. He didn't just bash the president with a single quote, he had a whole FB group up to do it. He had plenty of warning for disciplinary action, not to mention he did sign a contract prohibiting such childish behavior when he joined the service. It was his fault for not abiding by the chain of command when issued warnings, and not knowing what is or is not considered acceptable behavior while serving as a marine.

Yes it sucks that he's losing his benefits. And he has served for 9 years. But what else would he have expected to happen instead? Just a slap on the wrist? It's just unfortunate that the corp is planning on making an example out of him, but it isn't uncalled for.

[TVTyrant]

Did Obama give the order to have this guy discharged? If not, why bash Obama? It was the Marine Corps. that acted, not Obama...unless he really did give the order, which I highly doubt.
Wasn't the point. 5 years ago we had soldiers talking to media saying they didn't believe in the cause in Iraq, and nothing bad happened.

I'm not saying its Obama's fault, but when we had a fascist president we somehow had more freedom of speech lol.

[Rainbow Dash]

He's better off not in the army anyway.

Seriously fuck that shit is terrible.

[TVTyrant]

He's better off not in the army anyway.

Seriously fuck that shit is terrible.
If you don't have any education, job skills, or family its a nice option for a lot of people. I'm sure it would be better for you than sitting around blowing smoke from your nose and burning a hole through your parents wallets.

Theres a lot of dumb fucks who lose their invitations at home, join the military, and learn personal discipline and make at least a fair wage while theyre at it, and get to use all that money on things because they are taken care of by the government. Not bad for somebody nobody wants around : )

[Ryx]

If he had been criticizing the war in Iraq, well he's not being insubordinant to a superior officer. He's blatantly insulting a superior, and after several warnings is fired. Criticizing the war in Iraq isn't technically personal; it's expressing what they think about it. They're not saying "Bush is an idiot for ____", at least obviously.

[Rainbow Dash]

If you don't have any education, job skills, or family its a nice option for a lot of people.

Yeah man, the option to get paid to murder people, get traumatized, come home and be unemployed, and then probably commit suicide, or suffer from Post-traumatic stress disorder (or other psychological issues) for the rest of their lives

J4SrziRCqyE



I'm sure it would be better for you than sitting around blowing smoke from your nose and burning a hole through your parents wallets.

oOoOoOoOoOh :ohdear:



Theres a lot of dumb fucks who lose their invitations at home, join the military, and learn personal discipline and make at least a fair wage while theyre at it, and get to use all that money on things because they are taken care of by the government. Not bad for somebody nobody wants around : )

Ok? So you have a society that doesn't give a shit about the people in it, and as a result produces shitty people, and then you blame them for being shit, so that you can justify sending them off to become mentally destroyed by the military?

[CN3089]

oh no soldiers should totes have the right to repeatedly disrespect and insult superior officers without punishment ps i have no idea how the military works




(that's you that's how dumb you sound)

[El Lobo]

One of my friends served in Iraq, came home, got married, found a job, and is leading a succesful life. Also, has not killed himself. Texting him now telling him he is doing it wrong.

[TVTyrant]

Yeah man, the option to get paid to murder people, get traumatized, come home and be unemployed, and then probably commit suicide, or suffer from Post-traumatic stress disorder (or other psychological issues) for the rest of their lives
I have never dozens of people who have returned from the military and lead normal lives. Most have benefited massively from it. Maybe if you had some personal experience you would know there was more to life than statistics.


oOoOoOoOoOh :ohdear:
:smugoff:


Ok? So you have a society that doesn't give a shit about the people in it, and as a result produces shitty people, and then you blame them for being shit, so that you can justify sending them off to become mentally destroyed by the military?
No, we have a society where some people make poor choices, and many of them have to take a hard road to making good ones. Living isn't free. Its a struggle from the day you are born to the day you die. You can blame society for everything, or you can have some personal accountability to make judgments. From my interaction with you I can tell you decide on the former, which is the worst cop out you can make.

BTW Sel, I love you <3 you give life to this otherwise dead foram.

[Higuy]

One of my friends served in Iraq, came home, got married, found a job, and is leading a succesful life. Also, has not killed himself. Texting him now telling him he is doing it wrong.

Lmao.

Anyway, I agree with Sel, simply becuase society does not need:

a) dumb people

b) dumb people with guns and ammunition

[Cortexian]

Just the politicians making their example out of poor sods who happened to pop up on the politicians radar. That said, the guy should of known better. There are some obvious professionalism issues with what he did, especially WHILE ENLISTED. It's really his own damn fault.

I don't agree with how the higher-ups dealt with it, it really didn't need to be publicized or anything.

[Rainbow Dash]

Lmao.

Anyway, I agree with Sel, simply becuase society does not need:

a) dumb people

b) dumb people with guns and ammunition

That wasn't quite my point. The point I was making is that society, especially American society, is set up in a way which pretty much guarantees the creation of these kinds of people. Also yes tyrant, obviously I realize that not everyone who joins the military is traumatized for life, but the fact that so many are is still incredibly disturbing.

[Zeph]

hurr
im gunn sign contract
stoopid boss fiared meh foh saiyan he dum

[TVTyrant]

That wasn't quite my point. The point I was making is that society, especially American society, is set up in a way which pretty much guarantees the creation of these kinds of people. Also yes tyrant, obviously I realize that not everyone who joins the military is traumatized for life, but the fact that so many are is still incredibly disturbing.
War is hell Sel. It always has been and always will be, and with the soft lifestyles we all live now a days its made the after effects even worse. I have NEVER been a proponent of any US military actions. I love economical aid and trying to help people, but I never argue FOR military action. I can only understand their reasoning, not agree with it.

[Roostervier]

That wasn't quite my point. The point I was making is that society, especially American society, is set up in a way which pretty much guarantees the creation of these kinds of people. Also yes tyrant, obviously I realize that not everyone who joins the military is traumatized for life, but the fact that so many are is still incredibly disturbing.how many people do you actually know that have been in the military? I know plenty and am in the military myself and I don't know anyone that's had what you said happens happen to them. you're basing your ideas off of sensationalised media

[=sw=warlord]

May I remind everyone that not EVERYONE is employed in the armed forces purely for firing weapons.
The people firing the guns are backed by logistics and other largely important but unseen roles.

[Rainbow Dash]

how many people do you actually know that have been in the military? I know plenty and am in the military myself and I don't know anyone that's had what you said happens happen to them. you're basing your ideas off of sensationalised media

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090914151629.htm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2057061/One-U-S-veteran-attempts-suicide-80-minutes-Hidden-tragedy-Afghanistan-Iraq-wars.html

Sorry but I'll go with these rather than "I don't know anyone with PTSD or who has committed suicide, therefore it doesn't occur."

[rossmum]

oh no soldiers should totes have the right to repeatedly disrespect and insult superior officers without punishment ps i have no idea how the military works




(that's you that's how dumb you sound)
pretty much this, the president of the united states is also the commander in chief of their military so you are literally badmouthing the boss when you badmouth the president

is it a good system? not really, it's fucking retarded. politicians who dabble in military affairs have a long and proud history of getting their country's shit kicked in, or at the very least almost getting their country's shit kicked in. it also results in the worrying trend of the military answering directly to a single politician instead of either being in charge of itself or being tethered to the government in general. it doesn't make what he did any less idiotic.

by the way he was a marine, the marines are not soldiers and are not in the army, this is an important distinction because offending marines will probably not work out well for you if you slip up and say the wrong word in person

[ChemicalFizz]

If the same thing happened to a 4-star like McChrystal, what did you expect for an E-5?! Gotta suck it up and kiss ass to your CoC if you know what you're doing! Now he's an untouchable civilian... Welcome home and enjoy the stay!!

YUT!!!!!!!

[DarkHalo003]

Gotta suck it up and kiss ass to your CoC if you know what you're doing!

YUT!!!!!!!
I know this is hardly the place, but did anyone else read this wrong at one point? :(

[Rainbow Dash]

nnG7yIHtlMY

[DarkHalo003]

Fucking hate anti-depressants.

[EX12693]

Fucking hate anti-depressants. This statement made me lol.

[Bodzilla]

just as a fyi. any person that goes on anti-depressant's is a naive fool.

they wont ever make the problem better. your not treating the cause and eventually they will become a new problem.

[=sw=warlord]

just as a fyi. any person that goes on anti-depressant's is a naive fool.

they wont ever make the problem better. your not treating the cause and eventually they will become a new problem.
Depends which anti depressants.

[DarkHalo003]

It also depends on if their depression is melancholia or just abstract depression. The reason why I detest of it so much is because doctors pass it out like candy. It also messes greatly with hormones just like aspartame or excessive alcohol or even caffeine addiciton.

[CN3089]

just as a fyi. any person that goes on anti-depressant's is a naive fool.

they wont ever make the problem better. your not treating the cause and eventually they will become a new problem.

some cases of depression are caused by chemical problems that can be effectively treated with drugs :ssh:

[Bodzilla]

some cases of depression are caused by chemical problems that can be effectively treated with drugs :ssh:
true.

but your garden variety one isn't.
take it from a guy thats been to the brink and back, and a family with a long long history of it. The pills help short term, and not long term.
because trying to get off something that makes you not feel like the whole world sucks and that you'd be better off dead... is fucking hard.

You gotta treat the problem, not the symptom. and in my honest experience most of it is down to a warped perception of events.
The brain's an amazing thing, and it has shotcuts that it begins to make over time with the way it thinks. Eventually it intuitively follows a chain of gradual thoughts to the same conclusion, living with depression on a personal level means that these conclusions are nearly all negatively skewed, which in turn feeds the depression.

[DarkHalo003]

true.

but your garden variety one isn't.
take it from a guy thats been to the brink and back, and a family with a long long history of it. The pills help short term, and not long term.
because trying to get off something that makes you not feel like the whole world sucks and that you'd be better off dead... is fucking hard.

You gotta treat the problem, not the symptom. and in my honest experience most of it is down to a warped perception of events.
The brain's an amazing thing, and it has shotcuts that it begins to make over time with the way it thinks. Eventually it intuitively follows a chain of gradual thoughts to the same conclusion, living with depression on a personal level means that these conclusions are nearly all negatively skewed, which in turn feeds the depression.
I'm so glad you know this. Not enough people do. The problem with people today is that they don't want to take the time to sort out their problems, especially the psychological kind. Everyone just wants a manmade, concrete shortcut.

[Kornman00]

He got what he deserved. Our military is already downsizing, and I'd rather not have tax payer money funding this guy's insubordination.

[rossmum]

true.

but your garden variety one isn't.
take it from a guy thats been to the brink and back, and a family with a long long history of it. The pills help short term, and not long term.
because trying to get off something that makes you not feel like the whole world sucks and that you'd be better off dead... is fucking hard.

You gotta treat the problem, not the symptom. and in my honest experience most of it is down to a warped perception of events.
The brain's an amazing thing, and it has shotcuts that it begins to make over time with the way it thinks. Eventually it intuitively follows a chain of gradual thoughts to the same conclusion, living with depression on a personal level means that these conclusions are nearly all negatively skewed, which in turn feeds the depression.
cool post

i've long avoided them for this reason. i am sure happy pills do good for some people but i don't like the idea of things fucking with my head and i would rather actually do something to try fix the problem longterm than just try and control it.

[JackalStomper]

He got what he deserved. Our military is already downsizing, and I'd rather not have tax payer money funding this guy's insubordination.

Insubordination would be disobeying a direct order.

This guy made a post on facebook.

[DarkHalo003]

Insubordination would be disobeying a direct order.

This guy made a post on facebook.
I think it's insubordination after they ordered him to stop posting the stuff.

[rossmum]

Insubordination would be disobeying a direct order.

This guy made a post on facebook.
noooooo, insubordination also covers being a fuckwit and disrupting your chain of command either by not following it or by undermining it like this

[JackalStomper]

undermining it on facebook

serious stuff

[rossmum]

yes please do tell me more about the military and its mindset w/r/t discipline as you are clearly more qualified to speak on these matters than i am

[DarkHalo003]

It's the concept of insubordination that is alarming. If the soldier can't even follow a simple order as "canning it," then he doesn't need to be on the battle field or anything higher than a private.

[TVTyrant]

yes please do tell me more about the military and its mindset w/r/t discipline as you are clearly more qualified to speak on these matters than i am
You don't know, Jackal may have served. I honestly am kind of irritated by the affair but I can see both sides of the argument. On the military's side, you have to be able to enforce the chain of command. On the civie side, I don't see how he was harming anybody, and I have friends in Afghanistan who post things on Facebook about all kinds of stuff. Never this kind of stuff, but stuff about the people who live in the region etc. Its an interesting discussion imo.

[Kornman00]

...and I have friends in Afghanistan who post things on Facebook about all kinds of stuff. Never this kind of stuff, but stuff about the people who live in the region etc...
1) Are they public (ie, visible to The Internet) postings?
2) Are they going out of their way to "spread" their thoughts?
3) Posting "Afghan civie X did this today, what a n00b *inserts picture*" and what this guy was doing is like comparing apples to oranges (the fact that he was posting on FB wasn't the reason for discharge).

[TVTyrant]

1) Are they public (ie, visible to The Internet) postings?
2) Are they going out of their way to "spread" their thoughts?
3) Posting "Afghan civie X did this today, what a n00b *inserts picture*" and what this guy was doing is like comparing apples to oranges (the fact that he was posting on FB wasn't the reason for discharge).
1)I'm not sure
2)No, they aren't. At one point a close friend from High School ranted about how the Afghanis treat marines and such like shit, but other than that nothing bad.
3)Again, no. Its a pretty abstract example tbh, but I am just saying they do allow a wide range of freedom for many soldiers. Only time I was questioning about legality was when a different friend of mine (who was friends with the other guy as well) made a reference to the way they watch the Taliban hiking through the mountains, as in the Taliban were funny. Other than that, nothing that was insubordinate.

[Bodzilla]

if people post anything about their job on facebook... well they shouldnt be busy breathing my air.

it's honestly one of the single most stupid things you can do.

[DarkHalo003]

if people post anything about their job on facebook... well they shouldnt be busy breathing my air.

it's honestly one of the single most stupid things you can do.
It's about as annoying as when people post "I'm looking for a job, know of anywhere?!!!" on Facebook.

[Bodzilla]

it's not because it's annoying. Whats to stop your employee's looking at your facebook and firing you for all the bullshit you've been spouting.

it's a retarded thing to do.

[FluffyDucky™]

^ Lol so true.. stupid people.

[rossmum]

yeah facebook is not the place to vent those feelings.

also while this may seem a minor transgression to civvies, the military strongly frowns on talking shop in public, let alone on facebook, including your opinion on x matter or y person. if i was to get on facebook and make a public post stating the chief of army was a fuckwit then i would probably be kicked out pretty fast too. (prime minister is not really the same as the president so calling gillard a fuckwit would probably get me a stern talking to at best)