2012 Presidency (USA)

[rossmum]

conservatives' mouths open, shit comes spilling out

YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN THAT

[EX12693]

BUTTFACES

[DarkHalo003]

The truth can't be biased.
No, but the people speaking that one truth can. I'm not supporting Romney by saying this, but frankly that would have been a lot more effective if they would have left out Obama's site as the source.

[Amit]

Who cares about bias when this is happening: Virginia GOP Caught Destroying Voter Registration Forms

(http://notlarrysabato.typepad.com/doh/2012/10/virginia-gop-caught-destroying-voter-registration-forms.html)In this case, bias may be a good thing.

[Warsaw]

Fucking what...

Virginia has historically been a conservative state, though it's also historically only been that by a small margin. I think these guys were afraid of VA going liberal this election.

Assholes. Too much room to fix the vote.

[DarkHalo003]

Who cares about bias when this is happening: Virginia GOP Caught Destroying Voter Registration Forms

(http://notlarrysabato.typepad.com/doh/2012/10/virginia-gop-caught-destroying-voter-registration-forms.html)In this case, bias may be a good thing.
Bias is never good in these elections because it blinds people to considering better alternatives.

That's a crock of shit. GOP is the true monster here, as I've been saying for months now.

[Warsaw]

On a tangent: I find GOP to be a most ironic name when the Democratic party is older...

[rossmum]

Fucking what...

Virginia has historically been a conservative state, though it's also historically only been that by a small margin. I think these guys were afraid of VA going liberal this election.

Assholes. Too much room to fix the vote.
considering that the rightest and nuttiest of the right wing nuts in that state already openly called for armed revolution to make sure COMMIES AND OBUMMER DON'T DESTROY 'MURIKA, i can't say i'm surprised

[Warsaw]

I'm still scratching my head at that. I would expect that out of South Carolina, Texas, Mississippi, Georgia, or Alabama. But Virginia? The state that was pretty split even during the Civil War? What in the fuck? Must be a guy who moved here...

[rossmum]

i dunno man, i was always led to believe virginia had a fairly significant backwoods hick population that the rest of the state like... ignored

[DarkHalo003]

I just wish Obama's economic plans weren't such a one-sided shitfest. Basically, in my state of Georgia, Obama's plans will fuck up a lot of stuff that's actually going pretty well like special programs for funding public universities (which for many is the best outlet for education in Georgia) and other programs revolving around medical care that's supported by non-profit organizations. It has a lot of our reps sweating because of it and it also explains why my parents are so nervous over the election.

That's another thing about Obama and the Democratic Party today: they don't give two shits about how the states are managed nor the reprecussions they'll create by forcing these retardedly implemented plans (Obamacare is literally retarded. It's a good concept, but simply retarded in it's implementation). They want centralized government and they want the power that comes with it. Honestly, that's why this situation is a Catch-22. Obama will fuck up the economy in each state and Romney will fuck up the economy as a whole. No one really wins. Those of you sucked into Obama's speeches and are banking off of Romney being a total tard are being taken for saps. Those who are conservative economists are desparately hoping Romney isn't a total fuck. People like me who are at a position that can't do shit and see the fucked up nature of both sides are trying to just survive. Fuck, why can't this country figure itself out, acknowledge everyone's boundaries economically, AND KEEP IT THAT WAY?

[t3h m00kz]

dX_1B0w7Hzc

[Amit]

I just wish Obama's economic plans weren't such a one-sided shitfest. Basically, in my state of Georgia, Obama's plans will fuck up a lot of stuff that's actually going pretty well like special programs for funding public universities (which for many is the best outlet for education in Georgia) and other programs revolving around medical care that's supported by non-profit organizations. It has a lot of our reps sweating because of it and it also explains why my parents are so nervous over the election.

That's another thing about Obama and the Democratic Party today: they don't give two shits about how the states are managed nor the reprecussions they'll create by forcing these retardedly implemented plans (Obamacare is literally retarded. It's a good concept, but simply retarded in it's implementation). They want centralized government and they want the power that comes with it. Honestly, that's why this situation is a Catch-22. Obama will fuck up the economy in each state and Romney will fuck up the economy as a whole. No one really wins. Those of you sucked into Obama's speeches and are banking off of Romney being a total tard are being taken for saps. Those who are conservative economists are desparately hoping Romney isn't a total fuck. People like me who are at a position that can't do shit and see the fucked up nature of both sides are trying to just survive. Fuck, why can't this country figure itself out, acknowledge everyone's boundaries economically, AND KEEP IT THAT WAY?

Well, shit, it's your country. You guys fucking figure it out and come back to the rest of the world when you're done.

[PopeAK49]

Lincoln wins once again.

[=sw=warlord]

:words:
Half the military funding and you won't need any other austerity measures.
The US spends 48% of the total figure that's spent world wide on military funding, That's right, $
711Bn yearly, even china spends only a fraction of that at $143Bn a year.
Half the military funding and you suddenly have $355.5Bn a year to spend on other things, like say working on making your economy based on manufacturing and exporting
rather than exporting your jobs to the lowest bidder, oh look, you've just solved the jobs market crisis and the financial problem as well.

[Timo]

I keep forgetting America is still at war.

[=sw=warlord]

I keep forgetting America is still at war.
I thought it was just a police action? :ohdear:

[TVTyrant]

I keep forgetting America is still at war.
SO does America

[DarkHalo003]

Half the military funding and you won't need any other austerity measures.
The US spends 48% of the total figure that's spent world wide on military funding, That's right, $
711Bn yearly, even china spends only a fraction of that at $143Bn a year.
Half the military funding and you suddenly have $355.5Bn a year to spend on other things, like say working on making your economy based on manufacturing and exporting
rather than exporting your jobs to the lowest bidder, oh look, you've just solved the jobs market crisis and the financial problem as well.
Yeah, we also need to cut social services by optimizing it. Seriously, it could be a worthwhile program if it was actually optimized, which it isn't. It costs more than our defense budget does and that is saying a lot. I wish we simply cut back both so that we could give more to education and research.

[Tnnaas]

We haven't officially been at war since WWII. At least, that's what I think I remember.
Everything since then has been either a conflict or a police action. Don't quote me on that though.

[rossmum]

Well, shit, it's your country. You guys fucking figure it out and come back to the rest of the world when you're done.
hahaha goddamn


Yeah, we also need to cut social services by optimizing it. Seriously, it could be a worthwhile program if it was actually optimized, which it isn't. It costs more than our defense budget does and that is saying a lot. I wish we simply cut back both so that we could give more to education and research.
the difference being that only one of these things is of any benefit whatsoever to your average american at home.

i get the importance of keeping a well-funded military, but i also get why america's is so bloated. abandon your overseas bases, slash the size of the military, cancel any darpa project that isn't getting immediate results, and use the massive excess of funding you now have for a small military to maintain equipment better and train your soldiers better. commonwealth regular and light infantry are on the same level as most low-mid tier us special forces - there's something very wrong with that picture.

the military should be a defensive force with some offensive capability, not a bloated mess tasked with maintaining america's attempt at empire-building.


We haven't officially been at war since WWII. At least, that's what I think I remember.
Everything since then has been either a conflict or a police action. Don't quote me on that though.
it's probably because america is the sorest loser in the history of sore losers, and immediately classifies anything that isn't a resounding success as a 'conflict' or 'police action' so they can still boast about their perfect record in war (which is bullshit also because they didn't win 1812)

[TVTyrant]

Nobody won 1812

Britain didn't care enough to finish

We just stood around, rebuilt, and learned a lesson

Don't allow yourself to be the nation that gets invaded

Be the invader

[PopeAK49]

They just wanted to come over for some tea, but then they realized Americans were coffee lovers....And then shit got real.



it's probably because america is the sorest loser in the history of sore losers, and immediately classifies anything that isn't a resounding success as a 'conflict' or 'police action' so they can still boast about their perfect record in war (which is bullshit also because they didn't win 1812)

Also, don't forget the 'minor' attempt of the US trying to invade Canada back then, of course the Americans underestimated their opponent. It wasn't technically a 'war' but it was a minor conflict.

[TeeKup]

I love tea and coffee.

[Timo]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc0xudCTi21rroj07o1_500.jpg

[PopeAK49]

I love tea and coffee.

Tea is great. I went a week without coffee and drank only tea, it made me feel better too.

[Tnnaas]

-snip-
http://i.imgur.com/Thc8b.jpg

[Rainbow Dash]

http://wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/pony-debate1.png

[PopeAK49]

I threw up.

[rossmum]

Hey Romney good job insulting and belittling one of the really important aspects of your closest middle eastern ally's foundation and implying that only countries which embrace 'individuals pursuing their dreams and building successful enterprise' (i.e. the US) are correct

PS: Individuals and private enterprise didn't put the first man in space, help establish modern heart surgery procedures, overhaul education systems, or build one of the best aerospace industries in the world, try again shitlord

[DarkHalo003]

hdCuNHeCXCE

In before someone takes this too seriously.

[TVTyrant]

hdCuNHeCXCE

In before someone takes this too seriously.
I'm so fucking butthurt right now you dont even know bro

DO YOU EVEN LIFT!?!?

[PopeAK49]

Obama has my vote.

[t3h m00kz]

I'm so fucking butthurt right now you dont even know bro

DO YOU EVEN LIFT!?!?

no but I'm getting a bit of a rise out of your fucking butthurt.....

[TVTyrant]

no but I'm getting a bit of a rise out of your fucking butthurt.....
Why are we so fucking gay Mookz?

[PopeAK49]

What about me....

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/003/619/Untitled-1.jpg

[Rainbow Dash]

QxzR2AcB7vM

amazing how they don't even try to make the process of voting look legitimate at all.


Gary Johnson 2012!
Change this paradigm.

bermudaguy1 (http://www.youtube.com/user/bermudaguy1) 1 hour ago (http://www.youtube.com/comment?lc=RSVuplkr_fNSwChCPBkO4IGPMX8bZNaca6Aifez xuis) 14

yes change the paradigm by doing nothing different, libertarians, so cute!

[Warsaw]

Romney decided last minute that it would be a great idea to come to my campus today, because Obama did it three times with fantastic results. Difference? Obama had the decency to do it on a Saturday. Romney is doing it on a Monday, at peak parking hours. Inconsiderate fucker...

[t3h m00kz]

Why are we so fucking gay Mookz?

because we stopped trying to pretend to be something we're not baby

[TVTyrant]

because we stopped trying to pretend to be something we're not baby
Let's run away together. We can flee this District. The Capitol will never find us out West.

[Rainbow Dash]

because we stopped trying to pretend to be something we're not baby

my little muki is all grown up now :3

[Rainbow Dash]

Romney decided last minute that it would be a great idea to come to my campus today, because Obama did it three times with fantastic results. Difference? Obama had the decency to do it on a Saturday. Romney is doing it on a Monday, at peak parking hours. Inconsiderate fucker...

He probably bought the whole parking lots though and you wouldn't want to interfere with private property rights which are super sacred right guys!!!

[Tnnaas]

So we've got someone running unopposed for judge. He's on Tuesday's ballot for the city of Lawrence.
The kicker: he died two weeks ago.

Fucking awesome, America Kansas. :v:

[DarkHalo003]

So we've got someone running unopposed for judge. He's on Tuesday's ballot for the city of Lawrence.
The kicker: he died two weeks ago.

Fucking awesome, America Kansas. :v:
VOTE FOR HIM. MAKE HIM A LEGEND.

[Warsaw]

He probably bought the whole parking lots though and you wouldn't want to interfere with private property rights which are super sacred right guys!!!

Not likely. More likely is that he bought all the people who were lining the sidewalks all over campus waiting to get into the Patriot Center.

[Tnnaas]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md1o0fQ4EZ1qzax4ao1_500.jpg

[Amit]

Oh wow, check out that vote altering machine:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QdpGd74DrBM

Some background info for the skeptics: http://tinyurl.com/bydqyyo

[leorimolo]

I have this enormous feeling that Romney is going to win.

I don't live in the US but the whole world is just terrified to see that happen.

[Rainbow Dash]

I have this enormous feeling that Romney is going to win.

I don't live in the US but the whole world is just terrified to see that happen.

hopefully a revolution

[Amit]

hopefully a revolution

According to Virginia, there will be a revolt either way, haha.

[=sw=warlord]

So we've got someone running unopposed for judge. He's on Tuesday's ballot for the city of Lawrence.
The kicker: he died two weeks ago.

Fucking awesome, America Kansas. :v:

"I declare this case has passed on"

[TVTyrant]

hopefully a revolution
But I haven't decided between Gale and Peeta yet!

[Tnnaas]

"I declare this case has passed on"
DOHOHOHOHOHOHO!

http://images.wikia.com/muppet/images/3/3d/TMS-Statler%26Waldorf-BalconyBox.jpg

[rossmum]

Oh wow, check out that vote altering machine:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QdpGd74DrBM

Some background info for the skeptics: http://tinyurl.com/bydqyyo
America, Land Of The Free, Defender Of Democracy

[Timo]

Simpsons did it! Simpsons did it!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aBaX9GPSaQ

[Limited]

Simpsons did it! Simpsons did it!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aBaX9GPSaQ
Pfft, old.

ArC7XarwnWI

Even if it was an accident and that machine was misconfigured, its still a big deal that a misconfigured machine was allowed to be used to vote. Surely they test the machines before letting people in?

[TVTyrant]

America, Land Of The Free, Defender Of Democracy
I think you're the only one who thinks anyone in America thinks that lol. Every person I know is now an extreme skeptic one way or the other. America has no image other than oppression anymore.

[Rainbow Dash]

http://a.yfrog.com/img576/5459/ahhqv.jpg

[Warsaw]

Voted Libertarian...because fuck big government.

It was either that or Green.

[CN3089]

libertarians: the only thing worse than conservatives

[Rainbow Dash]

Gary Johnson is nothing more than a Ron Paul mimic, it's fucking pathetic to listen to. Jill Stein is the only serious candidate in the whole thing.

[CN3089]

Selentic Is Wrong Again!!


Peta Lindsay is also running!!

[rossmum]

I think you're the only one who thinks anyone in America thinks that lol. Every person I know is now an extreme skeptic one way or the other. America has no image other than oppression anymore.
Except the obvious evidence that a rather consequential portion of the American public does think exactly like that will readily present itself whether it is invited or not. A majority? Possibly not. I wouldn't say probably not, because America is so backwards I honestly doubt it has gotten to that stage yet. This isn't me hating on America for hating's sake, this is my honest assessment as someone who doesn't live there and thus can think clearly on issues that Americans are physically incapable of dealing with themselves (namely almost all of them). Still, it's enough to make a hell of an impression on everyone else.


Voted Libertarian...because fuck big government.


It was either that or Green.
This is a terrible idea because libertarians have literally the worst policies known to man. They are far and away worse than Romney could ever hope to be. I would vote for Romney a thousand times before voting for any libertarian candidate even once.


libertarians: the only thing worse than conservatives
Exactly.

[Rainbow Dash]

Selentic Is Wrong Again!!


Peta Lindsay is also running!!

oh she is good too I guess, too bad she's even more obscure than fucking jill stein!

[TVTyrant]

This isn't me hating on America for hating's sake, this is my honest assessment as someone who doesn't live there and thus can think clearly on issues that Americans are physically incapable of dealing with themselves (namely almost all of them). Still, it's enough to make a hell of an impression on everyone else.
You are the most biased person I have ever been friends with over the internet lol.

[CN3089]

http://i.imgur.com/aKG4v.gif

:wrapitup:

[thehoodedsmack]

Do you guys have a president yet? Let's go, wrap it up.

[TVTyrant]

Do you guys have a president yet? Let's go, wrap it up.
This


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZTltYcJTxA

[CN3089]

warren 2016 time booyeah


never stop campaigning. forevercampaign.

[Tnnaas]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcxsb1zD5L1qei28to1_400.jpg

[rossmum]

You are the most biased person I have ever been friends with over the internet lol.
You have got to be kidding me. There are plenty more on this site, let alone the internet in general. You must not spend a lot of time online.

Ace, since Steam is being pissy and won't let me reply there: libertarians are worse than conservatives for a number of reasons, chief among them being their core fucking ideology. Thinking that the free market will magically solve all problems, that the government should have no influence over private citizens (goodbye police, fire department, FDA, public highways, and all the other things run by the government for the betterment of the people), and that states should all have the ability to set their own laws (which as we all well know will result in the South and much of the Midwest rapidly reverting to the 1950s), and that most prominent libertarian candidates are, in fact, horrible people with equally outdated and repulsive views to conservatives (if not worse), are all reasons why they are a terrible option, easily the worst of all since at least most other conservatives tend not to be down with the free market in the same way libertarians are.

If you unironically believe the free market will do anything other than make every non-CEO citizen's life even fucking worse, then I don't even know what to say.

[Warsaw]

There are still lines of thousands of people in VA who were waiting to vote when polls closed at 7:00 PM EST. They are entitled to their vote, so we have to wait. I imagine similar is going on with other states.

E: Ross, you have to remember that reality tempers any core ideology for a party. Look at what happened to Obama over the course of his term. When you factor that in, the Libertarian platform is the most benign out of the bunch. The core ideology of Libertarianism is use as little government as possible to achieve your goals. I think that's a fine core ideology, because government overkill is inefficient and because those goals are, since we're speaking about ideals here, set by the public.

The Libertarian platform currently favours cutting of military spending, upholding civil liberties, furthering the cause of human rights, and the cessation of invasive foreign intervention. The real situation will make sure none of that spins out of control, as will the fact that other parties have other things to say.

The Democratic and Republican parties are radically different approaches with the same end result: more government, more restricted civil liberties, and continued world policing. Socialism has nothing to do with it, and you can still take the true Libertarian ideal and apply it to socialism. Remember, it's using as little regulation as possible to achieve a goal. If that goal is socialized healthcare, then you can't call it anything other than being efficient to achieve that goal. I didn't vote Green because apart from environmental issues, Green has typically been a mirror for the Democratic party.

Voting Democrat or Republican is a sure-fire way to make sure nothing changes at all. Even if a Libertarian administration turned out to be worse, it would be a catalyst to make something better happen. The night is darkest before the dawn, and stuff...

[TVTyrant]

You have got to be kidding me. There are plenty more on this site, let alone the internet in general. You must not spend a lot of time online.
Note that I used the word friend, Rossmum. As in person who I actually enjoy talking to or conversing with.

[TVTyrant]

Obama only needs 26 more votes

And he's up in Florida and Ohio

Yay Republicanism!

[=sw=warlord]

Obama currently has 265 votes, he's won.

[TVTyrant]

Obama wins with 274 to 201

Thank fucking God. Now I don't have to move to Canada/New Zealand.

[thehoodedsmack]

All these two-term presidencies are no fun. Mix it up.

[=sw=warlord]

In b4 bobblehob says the votes were miscounted.

[Warsaw]

Obama wins with 274 to 201

Thank fucking God. Now I don't have to move to Canada/New Zealand.

Don't count your eggs yet. The Supreme Court still has to rule on whether or not you own and have the right to sell the things you buy. That's more of a deciding factor for me than this stupid farce of an election...

@thehoodedsmack: it's rigged to be this way between Reps and Dems, duh...

[Tnnaas]

https://images.4chan.org/b/src/1352254670452.jpg

[CN3089]

whoa whoa whoa


ohio nevada colorado florida (maybe (ok rick scott is still governor not really)) virginia new mexico and iowa are now officially non-dumbfuckistan

[rossmum]

E: Ross, you have to remember that reality tempers any core ideology for a party.
Right, and the US is so far right of every other developed nation I can think of offhand (barring reactionary shifts) it may as well be a fascist police state. Well, I mean, it almost is already, but whatever.

My point here is that the US will temper that core ideology far, far less than say Canada or the UK. If anything, it will temper the opposite while doing little to libertarian idiocy. Considering also that the US is pretty much the most locked-down stronghold of capitalism and greed, this is not a good set of parameters to expect any useful tempering to happen in.


Look at what happened to Obama over the course of his term.
Obama was trying to introduce left-wing policies in a right-wing country. Most libertarians in the US are far right at best.


When you factor that in, the Libertarian platform is the most benign out of the bunch. The core ideology of Libertarianism is use as little government as possible to achieve your goals. I think that's a fine core ideology, because government overkill is inefficient and because those goals are, since we're speaking about ideals here, set by the public.
Libertarianism, in every flavour where it is actually represented and regimented enough to have any influence, is not just about paring down government inefficiency to achieve the same goals. It is based on a whole different set of terrifyingly stupid goals. It is about getting the man out of everyone's lives. It is the political ideology that massive corporations and rebellious teens alike can really get behind; one because it will willingly remove all remaining limits on their power, the other because they have issues with authority and don't like being told they can't smoke weed, drive while intoxicated, or skip school whenever they feel like it.


The Libertarian platform currently favours cutting of military spending
So do tons of less horrible options.


upholding civil liberties, furthering the cause of human rights
Only insofar as the ~FREE MARKET~ will allow. Watch what happens when deregulation sees private entities quashing those same liberties even worse than they already do by working the system (or lack thereof). Why do you think there are market regulations in the first place? I'll give you a hint: because allowing businesses that much power was a terrible fucking idea and did not end well.


and the cessation of invasive foreign intervention.
Again, they aren't the only ones who back this, and they only care about the military. They wouldn't bat an eyelid over PMCs shitting up the globe, because again, ~THE FREE MARKET~. These are the idiots who unironically believe that there should not be things like FDA regulations and that ~THE FREE MARKET~ will somehow magically protect the consumer from being poisoned by companies trying to save money by skimping on safety - yeah, because that sounds like a perfectly sound plan.


The real situation will make sure none of that spins out of control, as will the fact that other parties have other things to say.
In a leftist nation? Maybe. In the United States? Not as likely, and the prospects of failure to contain their idiocy are far more terrifying.


The Democratic and Republican parties are radically different approaches with the same end result: more government, more restricted civil liberties, and continued world policing. Socialism has nothing to do with it, and you can still take the true Libertarian ideal and apply it to socialism.
Except nobody in the United States Government or any derivative thereof who considers themselves a libertarian is down with social welfare or market regulations. That is the fucking problem. US libertarians are not concerned with either, and identifying them as such is exceedingly dangerous. They are the sorts of people who believe that every single fucking problem known to man is magically solveable by just throwing the problem at private business, removing all limits on the power of said businesses, and letting the market dictate everything. They care about individual liberty from the government, they give absolutely not a fuck about individual liberty from anything else. As anyone with eyes to see should well know, westerners should not consider the government the main threat to their fucking freedom. Who keeps lobbying the government into making shitty laws? Who avoids repercussions against themselves through corrupting officials? Who keeps ruining people's lives over petty crimes that really, by any reasonable human's reckoning, should probably not be crimes anyway?

I'll give you a hint: it's not the government.


Note that I used the word friend, Rossmum. As in person who I actually enjoy talking to or conversing with.
Fair point.

[Warsaw]

@CN: Yeah...all of the pro-Obama people over here had to finish their day-jobs and couldn't vote early like the all of the retired Romney folks...

@Ross: You are way out of tune with the general population of the United States. The government comprises a bunch of decrepit old people who will all eventually die and get replaced. Yes, the ideals of the people replacing them will still be out of sync with the population but they will still be more progressive than those of their predecessors. Government policy can never truly be synchronous with the ideals of the population, so you just have to make sure that you set up the future.

Also, like I said over Steam, free market can work. However, you also have to remove civil legislation which prevents people from taking out their frustrations on abusive business. That can get messy and dangerous, but...trade-offs. Everybody who claims to be libertarian that I've talked to has basically said the same thing I said previously. These are the people who will eventually BE in government. What the current fuck-heads espouse is ultimately irrelevant because they will be gone by the time the Democrats and Republicans have made such asses of themselves that people are willing to try a new party. Hell, Libertarian may even split into the shit side and the good side. We can't know.

[Tnnaas]

whoa whoa whoa


ohio nevada colorado florida (maybe (ok rick scott is still governor not really)) virginia new mexico and iowa are now officially non-dumbfuckistan
>From 4chan.
>Made probably half an hour ago.
Doesn't matter, I'm happy enough Obama won. EAT SHIT, MITT!

[rossmum]

Pre-empting Bobblehob's inevitable shitpost by just reminding everyone to check out aforementioned poster's long and proud history of having really quite terrible and ill-informed opinions about literally every topic he ever enters discussions about

edit: Additionally this forum is a hell of a lot more enjoyable now I don't have thousands of square pixels' worth of completely irrelevant graphs and thousands of words of Ron Paul personality cult drivel thrown in my face in every single fucking thread

[Amit]

Welp, Virginia now claims civil war.

[DarkHalo003]

Rossmum, stop arguing politics. It's obvious that arguing doesn't matter since according to nearly every post I see on Facebook, the end is nigh now that Obama is re-elected. GOD HELP US ALL!

God is probably laughing at how silly we're all being anyways.

In defense of some states like mine of Georgia that voted Republican, Obama being elected is kind of bad for us. We're now on the back burner for being funded as a state by the feds since the Dems now run the Executive Branch and can influence that. We didn't vote for Romney because we really liked him: it was more because doing so would mean we'd have a better chance at backing up some pretty damn-nice programs like the HOPE scholarship that pays for college students' tuitions if they do well in school (B average) and some medical provisions. Our state is conservative, but we have a LOT of domestic liberal funds that help a lot of people in need. Because we are conservative and politically associated with the Republican party due to the common interests economically, we are now smitten by the Democratic party who controls the Executive. Other than that, glad to hear you foreigners aren't going to bitch about our next president for 4 more years.

[Warsaw]

Welp, Virginia now claims civil war.

Except, VA voted Obama.

:eng101:

[CN3089]

http://i.imgur.com/TQvLg.png

[rossmum]

@Ross: You are way out of tune with the general population of the United States.
Computer says no. Also every other bit of US that leaks out says no.


The government comprises a bunch of decrepit old people who will all eventually die and get replaced. Yes, the ideals of the people replacing them will still be out of sync with the population but they will still be more progressive than those of their predecessors. Government policy can never truly be synchronous with the ideals of the population, so you just have to make sure that you set up the future.
This doesn't excuse accepting shitty options, especially options as shitty as US libertarians.


Also, like I said over Steam, free market can work.
No it can't. Haven't you tried to argue that socialism is flawed because of 'human nature' to me at some point in the fairly recent past? How is that any different for this - and especially since a complete free market is infinitely more corruptible?


However, you also have to remove civil legislation which prevents people from taking out their frustrations on abusive business. That can get messy and dangerous, but...trade-offs.
The means do not justify the ends, and most people have enough trouble as it is without having to fucking fend for themselves against other people of equal class, let alone massive faceless corporations with seemingly inexhaustible resources and influence.

On that note, how the hell are you making things any more efficient when you do something like that? Society would be so choked up with active lawsuits - or worse - that it would cease to function. You cannot reasonably expect a small town, let alone an entire nation, to function without some kind of established power keeping a lid on things.


Everybody who claims to be libertarian that I've talked to has basically said the same thing I said previously.
Everyone who claims to be libertarian that I have ever had contact with in recent (past five years) memory has either a vested interest in abolishing market restrictions, or is some misguided idiot with serious authority issues who is so mad about not being able to do just whatever the fuck they want that they don't stop to think for two seconds what would actually happen if their libertarian paradise actually eventuated. Harp on about freedom and liberty all you fucking want, you will have neither in the face of corporate entities no longer tethered to the ground by government restrictions.

It is a stupid, dangerous escapist ideology whose most notable hero figure literally based her entire life's work upon the pent-up resentment she felt over her shitty bourgeois family being fucked off out of the world's first constitutionally socialist state. It is not some beacon of social progress as its goal of removing government influence from private citizens' lives is not limited and will abolish a vast swathe of critical structures that I guarantee the bulk of its supporters could not live without. It hinges everything on the completely naive assumption that small government means personal freedom, because it also makes the completely naive assumption that the government is the only thing that infringes on personal freedom and a ~FREE MARKET~ will ensure every citizen can simply not give their patronage to those things that try to screw them, because in this dreamy world there will always be some alternative that isn't solely concerned with profit over all else.


These are the people who will eventually BE in government.
A horrifying thought.


What the current fuck-heads espouse is ultimately irrelevant because they will be gone by the time the Democrats and Republicans have made such asses of themselves that people are willing to try a new party. Hell, Libertarian may even split into the shit side and the good side. We can't know.
There is no good side of the libertarian ideology as we know it.


Rossmum, stop arguing politics. It's obvious that arguing doesn't matter since according to nearly every post I see on Facebook, the end is nigh now that Obama is re-elected. GOD HELP US ALL!
We can only hope.

...That the end is nigh, I mean. I really would rather we weren't magically saved.


God is probably laughing at how silly we're all being anyways.
God's existence has been neither confirmed nor definitively disproven, so what any possible god-figure is doing right now is beyond me. And also highly irrelevant, for that matter.


In defense of some states like mine of Georgia that voted Republican, Obama being elected is kind of bad for us. We're now on the back burner for being funded as a state by the feds since the Dems now run the Executive Branch and can influence that. We didn't vote for Romney because we really liked him: it was more because doing so would mean we'd have a better chance at backing up some pretty damn-nice programs like the HOPE scholarship that pays for college students' tuitions if they do well in school (B average) and some medical provisions. Our state is conservative, but we have a LOT of domestic liberal funds that help a lot of people in need. Because we are conservative and politically associated with the Republican party due to the common interests economically, we are now smitten by the Democratic party who controls the Executive. Other than that, glad to hear you foreigners aren't going to bitch about our next president for 4 more years.
This is why parties are stupid, but I hope you realise your state's temporary discomfort has saved a much longer, much worse pain for your entire nation - and the rest of the planet, too.

[CN3089]

http://i.imgur.com/WHpEU.jpg

[Bodzilla]

whoa whoa whoa


ohio nevada colorado florida (maybe (ok rick scott is still governor not really)) virginia new mexico and iowa are now officially non-dumbfuckistan
fuck yeah, albaqucurkey

[Warsaw]

Ross, Skype...

[DarkHalo003]

We can only hope.

...That the end is nigh, I mean. I really would rather we weren't magically saved.


God's existence has been neither confirmed nor definitively disproven, so what any possible god-figure is doing right now is beyond me. And also highly irrelevant, for that matter.


This is why parties are stupid, but I hope you realise your state's temporary discomfort has saved a much longer, much worse pain for your entire nation - and the rest of the planet, too.
You're so fucking dramatic.

At the same time, why do Atheists/Agnostics always have to bring in "God has never been confirmed or proven" when someone brings in an allusion/reference to God in the same manner I did? Do you get the fucking point? The hysteria about Obama being re-elected is stupid and I'm sure that God in the entirety that he is known to sane persons in terms of benevolent characterization (there, secular enough explanation for you?) would consider it pretty funny about how people act like it's the end of the world when so much more important stuff is going on or will happen. It only irritates me because every atheist/agnostic I see post has to always state that. Christ, do you get the point of the reference or not?

@CN: I fucking lol'd.

[Warsaw]

http://i.imgur.com/TQvLg.png

I will take three bottles, please.

Over on the Corvette Forum, the user base is within inches of starting their own personal revolution...it's both disgusting and hysterical.

[t3h m00kz]

SHUT THE FUCK UP AND SMOKE SOME WEED AND GET GAY-MARRIED COCKFAGS!!!!

[CN3089]

also it looks like puerto rico voted for statehood, obama has said he'd support it

http://i.imgur.com/N9eIL.jpg

say hello to your new flag americalivers

[Bodzilla]

You're so fucking dramatic.

At the same time, why do Atheists/Agnostics always have to bring in "God has never been confirmed or proven" when someone brings in an allusion/reference to God in the same manner I did? Do you get the fucking point? The hysteria about Obama being re-elected is stupid and I'm sure that God in the entirety that he is known to sane persons in terms of benevolent characterization (there, secular enough explanation for you?) would consider it pretty funny about how people act like it's the end of the world when so much more important stuff is going on or will happen. It only irritates me because every atheist/agnostic I see post has to always state that. Christ, do you get the point of the reference or not?
So goddam MAD.

[Bodzilla]

also it looks like puerto rico voted for statehood, obama has said he'd support it

http://i.imgur.com/N9eIL.jpg

say hello to your new flag americalivers
Looks like China's gunna have to ramp up production

[Warsaw]

I dunno, I kind of like that flag...

[rossmum]

You're so fucking dramatic.
:allears:


At the same time, why do Atheists/Agnostics always have to bring in "God has never been confirmed or proven" when someone brings in an allusion/reference to God in the same manner I did?
At what point have I ever referred to myself as atheist (and why, for that matter, do you feel the need to capitalise it)? I am not sure if I have even stated my religious views (or lack thereof) on these forums recently, as I am deliberately vague about them because I am fucking sick of dealing with labels over something so petty and stupid?

I was being facetious at any rate. Now look who's being dramatic.


Do you get the fucking point? The hysteria about Obama being re-elected is stupid and I'm sure that God in the entirety that he is known to sane persons in terms of benevolent characterization (there, secular enough explanation for you?) would consider it pretty funny about how people act like it's the end of the world when so much more important stuff is going on or will happen.
It is not so much hysteria (at least as far as I can see in my house, in my street, and within my network of friends and aquaintenances in general) as a collective sigh of relief. Again, I don't think I'm being that much of a drama queen here.


It only irritates me because every atheist/agnostic I see post has to always state that. Christ, do you get the point of the reference or not?
Tell me more about my beliefs/lack thereof (which I have not expressed anywhere and are entirely an assumption on your part, based off of a flippant comment I made in response to a completely ordinary expression you made).

[Timo]

I can't believe Romney got the same number of votes as Obama.

[Rainbow Dash]

holy shit ross you make beautiful posts <3

[DarkHalo003]

:allears:


At what point have I ever referred to myself as atheist (and why, for that matter, do you feel the need to capitalise it)? I am not sure if I have even stated my religious views (or lack thereof) on these forums recently, as I am deliberately vague about them because I am fucking sick of dealing with labels over something so petty and stupid?

I was being facetious at any rate. Now look who's being dramatic.


It is not so much hysteria (at least as far as I can see in my house, in my street, and within my network of friends and aquaintenances in general) as a collective sigh of relief. Again, I don't think I'm being that much of a drama queen here.


Tell me more about my beliefs/lack thereof (which I have not expressed anywhere and are entirely an assumption on your part, based off of a flippant comment I made in response to a completely ordinary expression you made).
:|

Rossmum, you need to put fucking tags all over your post because your sarcasm never shows.

But I reassure you all of your posts create:

:dramabomb:

Sorry for the assumptions, those are just some pet peeves of mine is all.

[rossmum]

I'd be lying if I said it wasn't intentional. Where's the fun without making people really mad and then proving they were mad for no reason?

[PopeAK49]

I'd be lying if I said it wasn't intentional. Where's the fun without making people really mad and then proving they were mad for no reason?

So basically, being a dick.

[rossmum]

Sure, why not?

[rossmum]

http://i.imgur.com/uQK4l.jpg

[Amit]

Except, VA voted Obama.

:eng101:

:ugh:

[neuro]

too bad, i really wanted to see romney being the president, and start world war 3 because GOD SAID SO >:U

[Timo]

https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=%23movingtoNewZealand&src=hash

Lol, it's like they think moving to a country with universal healthcare, gay marriage, illegitimate rape and Chinese imports would make them better off.

[Patrickssj6]

I can't believe Romney got the same number of votes as Obama.

more hilarious that it results in a 303 to 206 point advantage...should be around 51% to 49% and results in 59,5% to 40,5%.

so i guess now it's 4 more years of just usual politics...which is good

[Limited]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/07/article-2229131-15E3D063000005DC-648_634x814.jpg

Daily Mail are running the headline: The Come-Barack Kid!

This is a victory for common sense, well done America.

[=sw=warlord]

Quick, everyone go here (https://twitter.com/MittRomney) and congratulate romney for his latest flip flop, was winning and then lost.

Dark's mad because he thinks Obama won't show any love to his home state.

[DarkHalo003]

So apparently the world is falling apart since Obama was re-elected:

7.5 Magnitude earthquake in Guatemala.

Dow drops 300 to sink below 13,000.

More at 5!

[thehoodedsmack]

Awful lot of hype and commotion just to end up keeping the same guy, America. Real let down. At least we can look forward to a real show in 2016.

Welp, back to business as usual.

[TVTyrant]

I gotta say, this thread has really made me realize how important our politics apparently are on an international scale. Makes me wonder how colonists felt during the English Civil War.

[Sanctus]

Fucking lol'd at Nope Romney

[Rainbow Dash]

EjUMSk2r2xE

[Tnnaas]

Oh, Joe... :-3

[rossmum]

I gotta say, this thread has really made me realize how important our politics apparently are on an international scale. Makes me wonder how colonists felt during the English Civil War.
See, now you get it.

Your country is a 200-year-old upstart that has more military, economic, and general political power than any other nation on the planet. It has held this position for about a third of its entire short history. It has proven to be slow on the uptake when it comes to anything that might actually improve the world (or itself) but is quick to bomb things ever since it realised in 1917 that holy shit war is really fucking profitable. It also has a long and proud history of colossal blunders in virtually every arena on the world stage, but nobody can really do anything about it or call it out, so it never learns. Its filthy capitalist feelers shoot out to every corner of the globe whether they are welcome or not, whether they come in peace or in war, with no regard for local culture. McDonalds is a household name in every goddamn country with a population over fifty and American movies, TV, businesses and ads pervade everything, everywhere.

With a stable president like Obama in charge, the US is annoying to have to deal with, but at least somewhat predictable and more of a looming intimidation than anything else. With an insane right-wing flip-flopping profiteer like Romney in charge, teamed up with someone who based their entire life career in politics around the writings of Ayn fucking Rand, it is absolutely fucking terrifying and easily a far larger threat to world peace, and the sovereignity of any given country, than anything else has been since 1945.

I am not exaggerating when I say that my idea of the end-times is an even righter-wing US with its modern world position. I am not afraid of the Russians or the Chinese or the North Koreans coming to shoot my neighbours and rape women and children, I am afraid of the US doing it. They don't need to though since no western nation has the balls to tell them to fuck off, they would rather just slowly become more like the US so the US will stop bullying them so much.

[Timo]

http://i.imgur.com/JKtDm.jpg
...

[=sw=warlord]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=gSOb4-L3NQE

[TVTyrant]

See, now you get it.

Your country is a 200-year-old upstart that has more military, economic, and general political power than any other nation on the planet. It has held this position for about a third of its entire short history. It has proven to be slow on the uptake when it comes to anything that might actually improve the world (or itself) but is quick to bomb things ever since it realised in 1917 that holy shit war is really fucking profitable. It also has a long and proud history of colossal blunders in virtually every arena on the world stage, but nobody can really do anything about it or call it out, so it never learns. Its filthy capitalist feelers shoot out to every corner of the globe whether they are welcome or not, whether they come in peace or in war, with no regard for local culture. McDonalds is a household name in every goddamn country with a population over fifty and American movies, TV, businesses and ads pervade everything, everywhere.

With a stable president like Obama in charge, the US is annoying to have to deal with, but at least somewhat predictable and more of a looming intimidation than anything else. With an insane right-wing flip-flopping profiteer like Romney in charge, teamed up with someone who based their entire life career in politics around the writings of Ayn fucking Rand, it is absolutely fucking terrifying and easily a far larger threat to world peace, and the sovereignity of any given country, than anything else has been since 1945.

I am not exaggerating when I say that my idea of the end-times is an even righter-wing US with its modern world position. I am not afraid of the Russians or the Chinese or the North Koreans coming to shoot my neighbours and rape women and children, I am afraid of the US doing it. They don't need to though since no western nation has the balls to tell them to fuck off, they would rather just slowly become more like the US so the US will stop bullying them so much.
That said, if I lived in Australia I probably would pretend not to give a shit because I am in the strategically safest country on Earth. The only place safer is like, Nova Scotia.

[thehoodedsmack]

That said, if I lived in Australia I probably would pretend not to give a shit because I am in the strategically safest country on Earth. The only place safer is like, Nova Scotia.

It's true. Try to take over Australia in a game of Risk. Hardest fucking thing ever.

[CN3089]

http://whitepeoplemourningromney.tumblr.com/post/35255959960


affordable health care in america? fuckin', please


this is the best thing about obama being reelected

[Tnnaas]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md58kwGFPz1rkd8gso1_1280.jpg

Oh, look at the poor white Vice Presidential family all upset.

Thank's CN2016, that is going to be my new favorite tumblr.

(2)

[TeeKup]

Are you fucking serious? Could those people be a bigger embarrassment to humanity. Jesus Christ I hate this nation.

[Rainbow Dash]

http://wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/butthurt-217x300.jpg

[Tnnaas]

Every buttmad coservative who swore that Romney would earn the presidency is an emberassment. They're crying because a pair of rich, white, bible-thumping madmen didn't become president. They assume it's the end of the goddamn universe. People are practicly holding off buying food because Obama won. If there were any form of ethnic cleansing, I wish it would be against a vast majority of those idiots.

What's even worse for them is that portions of the nation are becoming more and more Democratic. It isn't because people are changing their minds, it's because of immigration. "Boo-hoo, the white man isn't #1 anymore." Until the Republicans see that and get off their high horse, they probably won't win another presidency for a while. If they do, it's probably because either the Democratic nominee is so much more insane or the GOP nominee is such a middle-of-the-isle person.

I was going to rant further, but I hurt myself in my mad. :v:

(1)

[Rainbow Dash]

http://wonkette.com/489355/free-republic-geniuses-would-like-to-be-part-of-england-again-to-escape-socialism

[Warsaw]

I find it hilarious that the Republicans are saying they will flee to Canada or, as that article mentions, England. All of the places they want to flee to are far more socialist than the USA...

No wonder they lost the race.

[Bodzilla]

It's a good thing they still dont know spain exists

[neuro]

if they want to flee, they should check out iran, they've got more or less the same values they're looking for.

[TVTyrant]

if they want to flee, they should check out iran, they've got more or less the same values they're looking for.
10/10 would rep again

[Patrickssj6]

if they want to flee, they should check out iran, they've got more or less the same values they're looking for.

you know, that is closer to the truth than it might appear to some ppl. i never understood the "i want to be free" and "i want to live in a society" paradoxon. if you want to be free, just go to some remote place in southern mexico. you might get assaulted and there is no walmart around the corner, but you truly are free.

[Bodzilla]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A7O3Aj0CUAAIq14.png
Lmfao

Stay stupid america

[rossmum]

That said, if I lived in Australia I probably would pretend not to give a shit because I am in the strategically safest country on Earth. The only place safer is like, Nova Scotia.
Well, it is and it isn't.

We are in a very useful position. If someone wants power in this area of the world, like oh I dunno, the US... this is where they would want to set up. Loads of natural resources (including some very rare ones, like uranium and various other precious metals and gemstones too), loads of space to set up. On the other hand, the place is so far from anywhere and so vast (much of which is arid, worthless land) that an invasion would almost certainly be very costly if not straight up unsuccessful.

Really the only way to do anything would be to somehow coax Australia into letting you use it as a floating aircraft carrier/radar station/Marine barracks/naval port, then go from there.

...Oh. :gonk:


Every buttmad coservative who swore that Romney would earn the presidency is an emberassment. They're crying because a pair of rich, white, bible-thumping madmen didn't become president. They assume it's the end of the goddamn universe. People are practicly holding off buying food because Obama won. If there were any form of ethnic cleansing, I wish it would be against a vast majority of those idiots.
I am a very conflicted person. I hate violence and I hate the concept that the ends justify those kinds of awful means, but at the same time, I wish those idiots would fucking disappear.

Really the only way it will happen is with education, which will take a lot of time and will also not be truly effective as long as the current system exists. I've been finding more and more that a lot of lower-class people with really awful opinions are often decent people at their core, they've just been conditioned into a particular way of thinking by their environment. The fact that keeping the lower classes dumb and angry at each other keeps the upper classes in power never seems to dawn on any of the poor bastards, so they live out their lives basically shoring up the defences of those who keep them down in the first place.

Fucktards who are more towards the middle or upper middle class have less of an excuse, but for the most part, it's not that different.


What's even worse for them is that portions of the nation are becoming more and more Democratic. It isn't because people are changing their minds, it's because of immigration. "Boo-hoo, the white man isn't #1 anymore." Until the Republicans see that and get off their high horse, they probably won't win another presidency for a while. If they do, it's probably because either the Democratic nominee is so much more insane or the GOP nominee is such a middle-of-the-isle person.
This is precisely what conservatives will do every single fucking time they lose an election. "Fucking immigrants/poors/gays/godless commies outnumber us now! We are the last true bastion of the Good White Christian Race and without us the world will be filled with Evil and Communism!"

Basically they are just really ignorant people who are either horribly misinformed or just straight horrible. Like I said above, I don't like just slapping "HORRIBLE ASSHOLE" tags on people because I honestly believe most of them really aren't under the surface, but well... fuck it, I'll just call them that as shorthand I guess. :downs:


I find it hilarious that the Republicans are saying they will flee to Canada or, as that article mentions, England. All of the places they want to flee to are far more socialist than the USA...

No wonder they lost the race.
They are so fucking detached from the real world that even your average day-tripper would be filled with jealousy. I don't know what else you would have expected from these people. Logic, reason, facts, empirical evidence - none of these have any weight to them.


you know, that is closer to the truth than it might appear to some ppl. i never understood the "i want to be free" and "i want to live in a society" paradoxon. if you want to be free, just go to some remote place in southern mexico. you might get assaulted and there is no walmart around the corner, but you truly are free.
Technically you still won't be. As long as you are on the soil of a sovereign nation you are not free - hell, even in international waters you aren't, as you're governed by international law.

If you want freedom, live on the moon. You still won't be free from gravity, though. Or the need to breathe oxygen.

[neuro]

for this exact reason i've always wanted to build a big airship and live there instead.

also i could piss down on other countries

[Warsaw]

you know, that is closer to the truth than it might appear to some ppl. i never understood the "i want to be free" and "i want to live in a society" paradoxon. if you want to be free, just go to some remote place in southern mexico. you might get assaulted and there is no walmart around the corner, but you truly are free.

People use the term "freedom" way too loosely. What they really want is the ability to go about a mundane life and move up and down the social ladder without government interference. What they want is a level playing field. But how do you define a level playing field? Do you force those who won the genetic lottery down to the level of those who didn't? Do you automatically make everybody have a shitty standard of living just because one guy doesn't have it as good as everybody else?

tl;dr: people want to be able to enjoy all of the fruits of their labour. They don't want to be told to hand over their livelihood because Joe Sixpack over there decided to be an idiot and drop out of high school. They don't want to be denied the right to say certain things because somebody somewhere might be offended. They don't want to be told they can't own a certain item because some fucker abused it once.

Society is a really complex balancing act. You need to regulate, but you can't over-regulate or you'll find yourself being shot at in the next coup.

[TVTyrant]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A7O3Aj0CUAAIq14.png
Lmfao

Stay stupid america
fuckin lol

[PopeAK49]

Welp, at least black people are happy...

[rossmum]

People use the term "freedom" way too loosely. What they really want is the ability to go about a mundane life and move up and down the social ladder without government interference. What they want is a level playing field. But how do you define a level playing field? Do you force those who won the genetic lottery down to the level of those who didn't? Do you automatically make everybody have a shitty standard of living just because one guy doesn't have it as good as everybody else?
Freedom is a stupid concept because you can only have degrees of it (and low degrees at that). There is no such thing as complete freedom because you can't just tell the laws of physics to fuck off and quit keeping a brother down.

People who harp about MY FREEDOM the most, though (namely libertarians) funnily enough seem not to want to visit their wondrous small-government utopias like Somalia?


tl;dr: people want to be able to enjoy all of the fruits of their labour. They don't want to be told to hand over their livelihood because Joe Sixpack over there decided to be an idiot and drop out of high school.
These people can be immediately written off as idiots since that is actually not all that common of an occurrence, and even if it was they are hardly being milked dry for every cent they have. In the case of the upper middle class and beyond there is literally no reason to have that much money in the first place so they can essentially get fucked because they are greedy assholes.


They don't want to be denied the right to say certain things because somebody somewhere might be offended.
They can fuck off because if people are seriously taking genuine offence to something they are saying, they are probably saying something horribly ignorant and discriminatory, making them awful, shitty people. The problem solves itself.


They don't want to be told they can't own a certain item because some fucker abused it once.
One out of three ain't bad.


Society is a really complex balancing act. You need to regulate, but you can't over-regulate or you'll find yourself being shot at in the next coup.
I am still of the belief that the majority of people are not inherently bad, and could be made into good, productive members of society if they weren't routinely brainwashed by television, advertising, lobbying, and the propagation of really stupid, shitty social expectations.

[Bodzilla]

Welp, at least black people are happy...
are you saying black people are better educated then white people in america?

[Limited]

Freedom is a stupid concept because you can only have degrees of it (and low degrees at that). There is no such thing as complete freedom because you can't just tell the laws of physics to fuck off and quit keeping a brother down.
What the hell are you talking about? Freedom isnt a concept. Freedom is simply a label we use for practical purposes, its imperfect and doesnt express true meaning but we have nothing better so we use that. Your example is completely irrelevant, its like me saying "yes but I don't have freedom of living without a heart", its just totally out of context.

[Warsaw]

I don't think people are bad, I just think they are biologically hardwired to look out for themselves first. I think the key to a great society is mastering the subversion of that predisposition.

[TVTyrant]

are you saying black people are better educated then white people in america?
Lol

[rossmum]

What the hell are you talking about? Freedom isnt a concept. Freedom is simply a label we use for practical purposes, its imperfect and doesnt express true meaning but we have nothing better so we use that. Your example is completely irrelevant, its like me saying "yes but I don't have freedom of living without a heart", its just totally out of context.
how is freedom not a concept? :raise:


I don't think people are bad, I just think they are biologically hardwired to look out for themselves first. I think the key to a great society is mastering the subversion of that predisposition.
"i'm biologically hard-wired to be a horrible cunt, i can't help it" is a cop-out excuse.

[Warsaw]

That isn't what I said or implied and you know it. Besides, you have yet to offer up an equivalent or better explanation.

[PopeAK49]

are you saying black people are better educated then white people in america?

http://static2.fjcdn.com/comments/I+see+what+you+did+there+_96a8a1876f7ddc04c8ad3fdf 27667894.png

[=sw=warlord]

Don't worry Warsaw, Ross is bio-logicically hard-wired to spurge out once in a while.

[Patrickssj6]

are you saying black people are better educated then white people in america?
*than

you white?

[=sw=warlord]

*than

you white?
*Are you white?

[rossmum]

That isn't what I said or implied and you know it. Besides, you have yet to offer up an equivalent or better explanation.
humans do not live in caves any longer. we haven't for some time. trying to use 'but we are hardwired!!!!' as a defence for shitty behaviour just doesn't fly any longer. besides which i seem to recall that school of psychological theory being regularly refuted, so that doesn't help.

[=sw=warlord]

humans do not live in caves any longer.
What do you call buildings?
Technologically achieved cave dwellings.

[rossmum]

quit ruining everything

[Warsaw]

humans do not live in caves any longer. we haven't for some time. trying to use 'but we are hardwired!!!!' as a defence for shitty behaviour just doesn't fly any longer. besides which i seem to recall that school of psychological theory being regularly refuted, so that doesn't help.

That's as much of a cop-out argument as mine is.

I've read that the predisposition can be over-ridden, but that doesn't mean overriding it is the best way to go about it. In fact, it's probably not.

[rossmum]

it's not a cop-out argument at all. how is telling people to quit hiding behind shitty and scientifically questionable excuses of instinct and evolved psychology a cop-out? quite the opposite i would have thought.

also, overriding stupid fucking retarded predispositions is never a bad idea and the one in question is particularly stupid, so i don't see where that argument is supposed to be going

[Warsaw]

It's a cop-out because it doesn't attempt to offer an alternative explanation. It's a cop-out, because somebody refuting a theory doesn't automatically mean that the theory is invalid, because a refutation is just casting doubt on a theory and does not necessarily become a new theory on its own. It's a cop-out because the idea that people put themselves first does not automatically imply that people are going to do so in the most direct and literal sense, thus making your whole argument baseless.

It does not matter one iota how you spin it, but doing everything for the greater good of others is still benefiting YOU in some way. Enlightened self-interest is a wonderful thing.

Furthermore, overriding usually results in resistance and, by extension, violence. Subverting usually results in peaceful, if slow, transition. That's where the argument was going.

[rossmum]

my argument is a cop-out because it doesn't attempt to offer an alternative excuse explanation?

even if the theory that we are, indeed, hardwired completely for certain behaviours is proven at some point, we are still intelligent and resourceful enough to have overcome plenty of supposedly pretty fucking strong impulses and instincts already, so it is a shitty excuse no matter what angle you approach it from. people making excuses are what hold the world back. forget 'hardwiring', either own up to your own behaviour or unfuck yourselves.

[Warsaw]

Hard-wiring doesn't imply any behaviours at all, it simply implies a motive. You may not like it when semantics come into play, but it's not just semantics when it affects the very direction of the discussion.

The ultimate irony here is that your last post is, by itself, an excuse. It's an excuse to not have to actually offer up a real answer. Interestingly, your form is also supportive of a seeming attempt to maintain your status as being a progressive-thinker or that your ideas are at least correct, both of which are a distilled version of self-preservation.

So please, continue on about how humanity is completely capable of becoming truly indifferent to its continued existence and mastery of the universe, because that is PRECISELY what you are implying humanity can do. I have yet to see or read about any example where man-kind has done that without any other goal in mind, and even then it is arguable that doing so is still a form of self-preservation, because self-preservation combined with human intellect tends to involve more than the physical realm.

[rossmum]

i have said nothing about humanity overcoming its need to exist as a whole, which is perfectly fine and has taken us a long way, merely the individual belief that one human or group of humans are somehow more precious than any other human and their loss would be a tragedy upon the species, which is complete shit. if i got hit by a bus tomorrow nobody would give a fuck (least of all me) and nothing would change. there is absolutely no reason anyone should think they are more important than anyone else and so beyond simply trying to avoid death or severe injury where possible, people should get out of the mindset that it's a good thing to make sure they have a nice comfortable life at the expense of others.

also you calling my argument an excuse is a complete waste of time and utterly unrelated to the actual discussion so please stick to things actually worth discussing instead of trying to poke holes in my argument via the most completely ridiculous and pointless route possible, unless you feel like me deciding to detail how that is an excuse for you to shitpost. i gave you as real an answer as you need, 'hardwiring' is not an accepted truth and until it is it is not something you can use as a scapegoat. even if it was, using it as an excuse is as despicable as anime spergs who immediately cry "MY ASPERGERS" the moment they do something they know is socially unacceptable. if you know the problem exists, you lose all right to excuse yourself, as far as i am concerned. the same applies here.

[Bodzilla]

my argument is a cop-out because it doesn't attempt to offer an alternative excuse explanation?

even if the theory that we are, indeed, hardwired completely for certain behaviours is proven at some point, we are still intelligent and resourceful enough to have overcome plenty of supposedly pretty fucking strong impulses and instincts already, so it is a shitty excuse no matter what angle you approach it from. people making excuses are what hold the world back. forget 'hardwiring', either own up to your own behavior or unfuck yourselves.
Just for the record guys, we are hard wired to be compassionate and empathetic to other human beings, this phenomena is call the "biological leash", which is why we find sociopaths so strange, to normal human beings.
It's part of the protective nature of ourselves which stopped us from going extinct, it's only that people use things such as social economic divides, religion and race as a means to differentiate between ourselves that catastrophes can happen.

[Bodzilla]

So what i'm saying is that "we're all one and the same", so the ability to rationalize people off that receive death sentences as shit happens is extremely detrimental to ourselves. Basically, get with the learned world you ignorant hicks.

[rossmum]

yeah that is actually the one case of 'hardwiring' that is confirmed to exist, basically when you do something good to help other people your brain releases loads of happy chemicals (unless you are really fucked up)

[TVTyrant]

yeah that is actually the one case of 'hardwiring' that is confirmed to exist, basically when you do something good to help other people your brain releases loads of happy chemicals (unless you are really fucked up)
When I was 13 my friends and I would loiter at Home Depot and help old people

True story

[DarkHalo003]

When I was 13 my friends and I would loiter at Home Depot and help old people

True story
When in Oregon.

[TVTyrant]

When in Oregon.
essentially yeah

[rossmum]

When I was 13 my friends and I would loiter at Home Depot and help old people

True story
feels good, huh. i had a guy smile at me on the bus yesterday because he recognised me from serving him lunch a few hours before. the homeless and otherwise poor as fuck are far more grateful than anyone else i have ever met, and they are real people, being around them makes me feel really good about myself and what i am doing

i mean, i am working in a kitchen because i basically got told to until i find a 'real' job, and i am enjoying the fuck out of it more than i thought i would enjoy any job, let alone one so far removed from any of my actual interests

[PopeAK49]

feels good, huh. i had a guy smile at me on the bus yesterday because he recognised me from serving him lunch a few hours before. the homeless and otherwise poor as fuck are far more grateful than anyone else i have ever met, and they are real people, being around them makes me feel really good about myself and what i am doing

i mean, i am working in a kitchen because i basically got told to until i find a 'real' job, and i am enjoying the fuck out of it more than i thought i would enjoy any job, let alone one so far removed from any of my actual interests

You should check out the ignorance that most Alaskans have towards homeless native people. They think that the homeless drink and beg because they 'chose' to be. I laugh and say: "No, they are not homeless because they choose to drink over working. They are homeless because they came from their village not knowing what the fuck to do. They are homeless because they did not have an educational system and have zero idea of modern day economies."

It's a huge issue in Alaska. Alaska natives come into a modern day civilization and have zero clue on how it works. Let alone, no one is there to help them. The lack of High School or GED also ruins any opportunity for a job.

[rossmum]

yes yes yes this is exactly it, thank you

people are the same here with the aboriginal population, particularly in the northern territory