It's Times Like This That Makes Me Hate My State Government.

[Sanctus]

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/05/09/2883125/law-would-stop-tesla-electric.html

TL;DR

NC General Assembly is looking to pass a law that would limit Tesla's ability to sell cars directly to consumers in North Carolina. Tesla would be forced to go through dealerships like major car companies do.

[TeeKup]

We just elected Mark Sanford into Congress. If that's not a shot in the foot, I don't know what is.

Honestly, I thought Lindsey Graham was bad enough.

As for Tesla Motors, their own dealerships might help there image, instead of their private delivery thing. Then again they probably don't have the capital to invest in dealerships at the moment.

[Patrickssj6]

prohibits direct car sales

bwahahaa what/why? never heart of such a stupid thing. Pretty sure I buy my Ferrari directly...

[Donut]

Because these cars are electric and don't feed ye olde oile companies here is america.

[DarkHalo003]

Hey South Carolina, would you keep the noise down? Georgia can't sleep. T_T

[TeeKup]

You used to be a penal colony. Shut up.

[Zeph]

It's probably a good thing to point out that NC taxes the fuck out of gasoline sales. We're talking a 30-50 cent per gallon difference crossing the VA/TN->NC state line.

[Cortexian]

bwahahaa what/why? never heart of such a stupid thing. Pretty sure I buy my Ferrari directly...
Not unless it's a built-to-order super special edition model. Your average Ferrari comes through a dealership or authorized distributer/broker or whatever you want to call it.

[Patrickssj6]

Not unless it's a built-to-order super special edition model. Your average Ferrari comes through a dealership or authorized distributer/broker or whatever you want to call it.
Unless you just want prestige and don't want to wait for you dream car you don't. You might remember VW having a tower (http://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/img/20452386-1130456105/topTeaser_der-vw-golf-kommt-nun-schneller-zum-kunden-auf-wunsch-konnen-kaufer-das-neue-auto-personlich-in-der-volkswagen-autostadt-in-wolfsburg-abholen.-foto-jochen-lubke-.jpg) just to personally pick up your puny average Golf?

[Kornman00]

http://image.motortrend.com/f/roadtests/oneyear/alternative/1203_2011_chevrolet_volt_update_4/33100493/2011-chevrolet-volt-across-america-promo.jpg
'merica

[TeeKup]

That thing is a shadow of what a Tesla S is...

[EX12693]

I've been somewhat involved with Tesla ever since the inception of the model S, so stuff like this pisses me off.

[Kornman00]

That thing is a shadow of what a Tesla S is...
Yeah, and 3/5ths the cost (assuming 61k base price; although the Model S gets the same Tax Credit as the Volt). While the Volt uses a hybrid generator instead of full on battery powered, it may have further range than the Model S. The latter only has a range of 206 to 265 miles when traveling at a constant 55mph. The Volt gets its best bang for buck at 50mph and less, but I typically have a reading around 300 miles with a full charge and tank of gas. As the Volt uses more of its gas reserves to power the generator, the lighter it becomes (surprise, surprise) and thus requires less energy to run.

[EX12693]

To be honest, a diesel hybrid vehicle is probably the best way to go right now. Diesels are so much more efficient than gas and are much more suited to driving generators due to their high torque output. The only downfall to this is the cost and weight of diesel engines compared to gas.

[TVTyrant]

Diesel and hydrogen cells are the two best fuel sources, bar none

[Kornman00]

Maybe in a world without a sun. But the sun still shines. So your bar needs readjusting ;p

'witzerland (http://www.solarimpulse.com/)

http://solarimpulse.com/fileadmin/design_2013/homeslide_acrossamerica-map-sf1.jpg

[EX12693]

Factoring in practicality, diesel and hydrogen still win.

[TVTyrant]

I live in Oregon. The sky is steel gray here.

[Kornman00]

Are you living in the future or something? Hydrogen fuel doesn't seem very practical today http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hydrogen.shtml

edit: Tyrant, clouds don't stop the energy production in solar technology

[Tnnaas]

edit: Tyrant, clouds don't stop the energy production in solar technology
Gingers know this rule instinctively.

[Patrickssj6]

Diesel and hydrogen cells are the two best fuel sources, bar none


Maybe in a world without a sun. But the sun still shines. So your bar needs readjusting ;p
Don't know why you 2 are discussing but hydrogen is just an intermediate to store energy. To produce it you still need some energy resource e.g. best would be the sun.

We have solar panels on our roof and on a sunny day they produce around 10kW (for your ref Korn, on a cloudy day around 0.7kW to 1.2kW). Hydrogen fuel cell in a car produces around 100kW.

[EX12693]

The thing about energy is that its practicality all boils down to energy density and power output

10 kW is about 13.5 hp. From an entire roof of solar panels. That's not even enough to run the air compressor in my garage. The same energy output over one hour is stored in 1/4 gallon of diesel. Compared to other energy sources, even intermediate ones, the energy density of solar power just isn't there.

At the sun's zenith, sunlight will produce about 1kw per square meter. My Honda Civic will make 110 hp, which is about 82kW. Assuming we can build 100% efficient solar panels (a physical impossibility), that means it would take 82 square meters of solar panels just to generate the same amount of power. At 882 square feet, even at 100% efficiency, that's just not practical for continuous power generation. Not to mention the best solar panels now are only 25% efficient, needing 4x more area.

With the addition of batteries, the practicality goes up a bit, but only for intermittent power usage. The largest battery Tesla has is 85kW/h. So parked inside a 200 square foot single car garage (18.5 sq m), using modern solar panels, it would still take 9 hours of full sunlight to recharge half the battery. This limits driving to less than 150 miles and only every other day. And as the energy density of batteries increases, using solar to charge them will become even less practical.

Not bagging on alternatives to fossil fuel, but solar is not a viable alternative.

[Patrickssj6]

Not bagging on alternatives to fossil fuel, but solar is not a viable alternative.
???

It will be the best next to wind. The only problem is how you store it and vehicles will use at some point hydrogen and for general electricity you use this (http://www.energyprofi.com/jo/images/stories/wasserkraft/055_pumpspeicherkraftwerk_herdecke.jpg).

No battery nonsense.

[EX12693]

While electrolysis and hydrogen fuel cells are good for storing energy, the energy density of sunlight is just too low to be practical for transportation or anything other than electrical grid support. No matter how you store it, the fact is that sunlight can not generate all that much power in a short period of time.

I agree with you on hydroelectric power, that shit is p cool. Take a lot of foresight to plan correctly though.

[Warsaw]

Fuck you all, I'll take my 5.7L V8...

On a more serious note regarding fuel: hydrogen peroxide. Blast it onto a [platinum, I think] catalyst and it decomposes exothermically to the tune of over 900 degrees celsius with a 98% pure mixture. You rig the plumbing to build pressure, then release it on a turbine and bam, usable energy in the form of electricity. The products of the reaction are water and oxygen; you could even set up your engine to be variable open or closed loop so that it re-heats some of the resulting water in an effort to maximize energy usage and expels the unusable water out of the tailpipe.

Sure, you still have to create the peroxide somewhere and that somewhere uses energy as well, but I say we consolidate the base energy generation to stationary, renewable sources. On that note, a decentralized grid where every building has its own solar collectors (parabolic or photovoltaic...whatever works), wind traps, or hydro-facilities where applicable would be a much better way of creating electricity than the unreliable centralized grids used all over the world, let alone in the USA. Think of it like socialist electricity...glorious.

With respect to the original post, dealerships were around before manufacturers were selling their cars on their own. The laws in place are there to protect the established businesses (which is already a joke). However, since Tesla never had any pre-existing dealerships before electing to sell direct, the laws don't apply to them. It's causing the dealerships (not selling Teslas, mind you) to cry foul, which is of course bogus.

[Bodzilla]

The thing about energy is that its practicality all boils down to energy density and power output

10 kW is about 13.5 hp. From an entire roof of solar panels. That's not even enough to run the air compressor in my garage. The same energy output over one hour is stored in 1/4 gallon of diesel. Compared to other energy sources, even intermediate ones, the energy density of solar power just isn't there.

At the sun's zenith, sunlight will produce about 1kw per square meter. My Honda Civic will make 110 hp, which is about 82kW. Assuming we can build 100% efficient solar panels (a physical impossibility), that means it would take 82 square meters of solar panels just to generate the same amount of power. At 882 square feet, even at 100% efficiency, that's just not practical for continuous power generation. Not to mention the best solar panels now are only 25% efficient, needing 4x more area.

With the addition of batteries, the practicality goes up a bit, but only for intermittent power usage. The largest battery Tesla has is 85kW/h. So parked inside a 200 square foot single car garage (18.5 sq m), using modern solar panels, it would still take 9 hours of full sunlight to recharge half the battery. This limits driving to less than 150 miles and only every other day. And as the energy density of batteries increases, using solar to charge them will become even less practical.

Not bagging on alternatives to fossil fuel, but solar is not a viable alternative.
Who says it has to be one or the other?

Solar is a brilliant renewable energy source for a shitload of products. Sure there are limitations with the technology but no one has ever said SOLAR AND THATS IT. GOOD LUCK.

[TVTyrant]

Tyrant, clouds don't stop the energy production in solar technology
Twas a joke :\

[Kornman00]

Twas a joke :\
Living in Oregon? Can't argue with that :downs:

[EX12693]

Living in Oregon? Can't argue with that :downs:Oregon is p cool mang

[TVTyrant]

Living in Oregon? Can't argue with that :downs:
You just jelly because I can look out my window and not have to see people

[Kornman00]

In Texas, you can look out your window and see people melting
:mech2:

[DarkHalo003]

'Merica.