Consider this;

[Neuro Guro]

-

[Chromide]

yes

[kungpow]

Hell Yes

[Roostervier]

Yes, it definitely is. It is much better than h2x in my opinion, a lot more fun to play too.

[SMASH]

Yea, it's a great game.

[Neuro Guro]

-

[lawndart]

Add me to the list of people enjoying this game.

[TeeKup]

New content is great and all. But the community to me is enough to keep the game. I've had a lot of fun with a lot of people here. Hell yeah for me.

[TheGhost]

Actually, I suspect that a custom model will be in-game within a month.

[Michael_EPGS]

Why not? There's already a custom gun in-game.

Go for it :-)

[MetKiller Joe]

Actually, I suspect that a custom model will be in-game within a month.

Yes, Jahrain is workiing on a model_render compiler.

But yes, H2V is definitely awesome. It has everything Xbox version didn't have, but I am a bit upset that on a radeon x1300 the engine goes:

:fuckoff:

Which is why I'm getting better graphics cards.

[Masterz1337]

No for me. Doesn't matter how many or how good the maps are, it's still the same (bad) game.

[soccerbummer1104]

lol, masters thats just because cmt can t be in it yet :P. dont worry it will soon enough. as far as me, i love it. not to mention, the models look much better for betas' and even low lighting is much more aesthetically pleasing. idk how, but its just more eye pleasing.

[Chewy Gumball]

I'm getting the game either way. If jahrain doesn't get that compiler working, someone else will eventually. I have complete faith in the community. Its similar to oblivion. They couldn't release a model compiler because of legal reasons involving the license of Havok (could possibly the same reason here), but they eventually got a custom made one that works just fine.

[Limited]

Theres lots of things that put this game down. The release date getting set back all the time. The restricted editing kit.

But at the end of the day it is still a halo game, and I'm still a big halo fan. I will defiantly get it. I'm just not going crazy and getting vista and it, I'll wait a bit till I do :)


They couldn't release a model compiler because of legal reasons involving the license of Havok (could possibly the same reason here), but they eventually got a custom made one that works just fine.

Where on earth does it say that??

[Chewy Gumball]

That was for Oblivion. We don't know why they didn't include it in the H2EK, but it is a possibility the same thing happened. I would say its a greater chance actually, they weren't intending to make a public EK, so why buy an license that lets you?

[Skyline]

No for me. Doesn't matter how many or how good the maps are, it's still the same (bad) game.
If it's really that terrible then why did you create a team for it?

[Masterz1337]

I wasn't aware we only made maps.

[Limited]

That was for Oblivion. We don't know why they didn't include it in the H2EK, but it is a possibility the same thing happened. I would say its a greater chance actually, they weren't intending to make a public EK, so why buy an license that lets you?
Uh yes we do know why they didnt.

They didnt release a model compiler because they wont want us compiling models. Seeing as you are only suppose to make the map, not any new vehicle or weapon tags or scenery.

Why did they do that? To cut down on the map file size, the whole tag structure and the way they are compiled into the .map is totally different for halo 2. To make the maps smaller, so you can do that download thing and it doesnt take ages :P

[Patrickssj6]

Bungie didn't include it so I couldn't make my Porn Rifle.

Cortana projectile meta swap ftw!

[Masterz1337]

Uh yes we do know why they didnt.

They didnt release a model compiler because they wont want us compiling models. Seeing as you are only suppose to make the map, not any new vehicle or weapon tags or scenery.

Why did they do that? To cut down on the map file size, the whole tag structure and the way they are compiled into the .map is totally different for halo 2. To make the maps smaller, so you can do that download thing and it doesnt take ages :P
Untrue, we don't have any knowlege as to why. I agree with Gumball, as that sounds like the most believable reason why we can't do it.

[blazedelite]

Bungie didn't include it so I couldn't make my Porn Rifle.

Cortana projectile meta swap ftw!

lol ftw

[paladin]

I think you would make it so more people would come to H2V with your brilliant maps./

[jahrain]

Actually, I suspect that a custom model will be in-game within a month.
True, but lets just hope that not just a "select few" will be chosen to be able to do so. I don't know how far I can get with my compiler without being able to open up the tags myself.


Anyways, I'm sure there are 101 excuses reasons why the ability to compile models/animations and edit such tags were removed but I think it all points to EA Microsoft Game Studios. With one main goal in mind, how to make as much profit as possible with as little cost user friendliness.

Just about any FPS game for the PC these days is standard to have some sort of modding abilities. But doing that requires extra costs to develop user friendly editing tools, and documentation for it. Not to mension, any licenses for what ever particular engines they used. Since Halo 2 for the PC is selling at a full price, and the whole entire game, content wise has already been created, if microsoft wants to make as much profit from the game as possible, they will spend as little as possible to get some what of a "editing kit" built for it and getting the game ported. They would of had to spend more money on getting everything enabled and supported on the editing kit because of man hours being used to test it, write documentation on it, and get licensing for it which would be allot more than just covering bsp compiling and level population. If you take all that is in Halo 2 for the xbox, and find the different between whats offered in Halo 2 for the PC, you will see that it little enough budget wise to make massive wtfh4x profits when selling the game at full price. I think thats also why we aren't getting any answers from Pi studios, or anyone involved with the editing kit's development. What are they supposed to say? "Our boss is greedy, cheap and lazy"? If it was something simple and justifiable, there would be no reason to keep quiet about it and probably be part of the documentation for the editing kit why they disabled so much.

[Kornman00]

Where on earth does it say that??
I suggested it, somewhere, thinking they may use a plugin for 3dsmax made by Havok (thus needing to be part of the licensee to use if its part of the SDK), but I don't think thats the case anymore.

Its still rather early to be judging both the game and its editing kit anyway people...

[TheGhost]

True, but lets just hope that not just a "select few" will be chosen to be able to do so. I don't know how far I can get with my compiler without being able to open up the tags myself.

I can already do it, I just need a few days to sit down and write the damn thing. Fortunately I can open the tags and I'm very familiar with the formats already via my other tools (http://ghost.halomaps.org/bluestreak/).

[p0lar_bear]

Previous rants aside, I may be interested in Halo 2 Vista.

For one, there's the bandwagon factor. My friends from the Halo CE community are slowly moving towards Halo 2 Vista, and I don't want to be left behind.

Two, there is much to explore, since the editing kit is locked up. Modding IS all about learning the engine via reverse-engineering and observation to make changes to the game, even if it violates an EULA or two. This also ties into point one; I want to be with the crowd who's leanring and making breakthroughs, this way, I learn about things in the first second, instead of asking the veteran modders in a year and get my head ripped off.

Three, there's otherworldly experience involved in the modding; I've learned a bit (just a bit) about Visual C#, .NET, and OOP in general by working with Halo's engine and resources. I have a ton of unfinished apps sitting in my Visual Studio folder that do various things to Halo, the dedicated server, and various tags in the process of learning. Also, there's the aspect of game design; you learn not just how to model, but how to make a map to fit weapons, vehicles, and resources, and vice-versa.

As I stated in my first sentence, I'm aware I made a big fuss over the Dedicated Server, the LIVE service, and the locked editing kit, stating a few times that I'd "never" buy Halo 2 Vista. I've since revised my opinion on the matter, as I was overreacting after being disappointed time and time again with each update. I want to get in there and learn, since with Halo, there's uncharted territories to explore with friends, while with Source modding, everything is documented. On top of that, making a Halo mod requires less effort, and is therefore a little bit more fun, whereas with Source, you really need to be serious to make anything cool.

[X3RO SHIF7]

i will buy this game, i want to see how far we can push this engine, and im confident well have the EK cracked in no time

[blazedelite]

hopefully we will have it cracked

[MastaCheefa]

With all the downsides that have been pointed out over and over again, the game itself is still very fun to play. To buy or not to buy I feel is a no brainer. Even though the future of modding the game is unknown we all know this community has jumped over numerous hurdles to get what it wants countless times before.

[Limited]

Untrue, we don't have any knowlege as to why. I agree with Gumball, as that sounds like the most believable reason why we can't do it.
Untrue? Dude, bungie/hired gun said it..

[Chewy Gumball]

Links please, or drop it. I find it very hard to believe they would say that even if it was the reason.

[MastaCheefa]

I believe I recall them saying that in an early development update. One of the few updates we got. Ill check for a link.

[Chewy Gumball]

I doubt that would be the reason though. There is no reason why they shouldn't let us make scenery. Thats part of a map.

[Limited]

Jo clowns or whatever her name is (lead of hired gun) was on some video web cast talking to some other chick about halo 2, the other chick said "will you be able to play cross platform" Jo said some thing on the lines of you cant as we had to lower the map size.

Ill try to find you a link.

Here you go

http://www.gametrailers.com/umwatcher.php?id=64357

scrub the video till the half way point and its just a bit further on.

SHe says "there were some pretty succinificant security and size issues to the map files themselves." then she says "we have a reat function where you can share your maps online, in order to enable that and make transfer time reasonable we had to reduce the size of the map which made it incompatible with the xbox version"

Put 2 and 2 together, incompatible maps, smaller size what do they do? share out the tags more

damn that other chick has a hot accent :O

[phenomena]

Uh yes we do know why they didnt.

They didnt release a model compiler because they wont want us compiling models. Seeing as you are only suppose to make the map, not any new vehicle or weapon tags or scenery.

Why did they do that? To cut down on the map file size, the whole tag structure and the way they are compiled into the .map is totally different for halo 2. To make the maps smaller, so you can do that download thing and it doesnt take ages :P


seems like the most plausible reason to me. halo2 stores the models within shared.map, not within the map itself like in halo 1. So a model compilier would involve either having to download a new shared.map, which is already almost 200mb, let alone with custom content in it, or having to re-write the halo2 map file structure.

[Syuusuke]

Can there be a way to "inject" the new data written from the "updated" shared.map and apply it on the old ones?

Actually...I think that might be farfetched.

[phenomena]

you could do it through ppf patches i suppose =\ but it would be a pain to have to do that for every map you download

[Kornman00]

umm, not all models are stored in the shaded.map dude...

[Atty]

I wasn't aware we only made maps.No, you also include crappy re-makes of H2 based weapons, and now H3 weapons. :)

[Flyboy]

Bitching about it won't fix the matter. Doing something however will allow you to get what you want. So, all of you saying it sucks because of limits, do something instead of complain.

[Genocide]

HaloPC had alot of limits, and look at the shit people produced.

Same thing goes with Halo Custom Edition.

[Flyboy]

Who exactly are you talking to? :P
Anyone who's complaining :mysterysolved:

[p0lar_bear]

The most plausible reason for not allowing us to make models that I've head thus far is the HAVOK physics engine's license; if you do, indeed need a special HAVOK exporter for MAX to make physics models, then production costs, and in turn, retail price, would cost more.

However, I'm not too sure of this. It's something that I can't put into words, but it has to do with physics_model tags.

[bleach]

Damn...time to upgrade to a Visiontek X1550 PCI. Well, meh, Halo CE has always been treating SOME of us good.

[Atty]

Thats not much of an upgrade from anything, tbh.

[Varmint260]

For one, there's the bandwagon factor. My friends from the Halo CE community are slowly moving towards Halo 2 Vista, and I don't want to be left behind.

Hear, hear! I don't want to be left behind. I wanna be in the here and now. As for you being divided Neuro, I really want to see an H2V No_Remorse. That map would work well with the H2 weapon set. I would be saddened to not see it come to fruition.

[Kornman00]

Its not because of there being a special Havok SDK 3dsmax plugin (and AFAIK, there isn't one). Looking at the jms format it appears they just compile blitzkreig with the Havo libraries and create the various physics objects described by the model, then include that data in the exported jms file.
Compiling with that code wouldn't be a problem because its the same code included in Halo 2 along with many other games (ie Path of Neo).

[jahrain]

The most plausible reason for not allowing us to make models that I've head thus far is the HAVOK physics engine's license; if you do, indeed need a special HAVOK exporter for MAX to make physics models, then production costs, and in turn, retail price, would cost more.

However, I'm not too sure of this. It's something that I can't put into words, but it has to do with physics_model tags.Even if its because of licensing, they could have covered that. Halo 2 for the pc is selling at FULL retail price ($50 - $60). Thats how much you would usually pay for a complete, newly developed game. I'm sure they could have covered licensing fees to allow them to include a damn physics model compiler if Havoc licensing required that. If thats the case why they didn't do it, I really think its just the issue of MSGS being cheap bastards, seriously. They could have paid to have Halo 2 completely redeveloped from scratch and still sell it for $50 to $60. Or at least for the sake of being a cheap bastard, could have just dealt with it by not providing the Havoc exporters, thus avoiding licensing fees to distribute the exporter, and left it up to the user's responsibility to obtain it themselves as they already required us to license a copy of 3ds Max to do levels.

[the1]

2 words
mouse
and
Keyboard

and isn't the second word keyboard is so no thats 3 words >_>
i hate first person shooters and console controllers like that lolz.

and as far as i am awear the physics model hmmmm. because Havoc can use the mesh instead of spheres. Concave Mesh :P. hey NO MORE SPHERES! YAY
we seriously need to get a good look at the tag. find out how it ticks. reverse engineer it. and then make an exporter for it in max script or something. :|
hmmmmmmm
anyone good with max script. anyone got a physics tag file and an appropriate render model so i can compare and look into how it works? even if its exported as text or something :S

[Zeph]

I highly doubt it's because of Havok licenses. The Havok license is for integration with the Halo 2 engine. Any custom content would still be used by that engine.

[jahrain]

Then what do you think it is?

[Zeph]

Then what do you think it is?

Live. It's terms of service are incredibly strict about what can happen when you're using it.

[Kornman00]

I highly doubt it's because of Havok licenses. The Havok license is for integration with the Halo 2 engine. Any custom content would still be used by that engine.
1) I was originally the one who suggested this reason
2) I retracted it
3) I was referring to the a per-user licenese, causing each map maker to have a part of the actual license ;p

[jahrain]

Live. It's terms of service are incredibly strict about what can happen when you're using it.
Still not a justifiable excuse, it could have been very easy to disable what ever particular live services such as achievements for maps with custom content. I still can't see why the hell they couldn't have just made Live optional... Xbox live being required for PC games is just breaking things in my opinion.

[p0lar_bear]

In this case, we do what the Halo 2 XBox modders did:

We take it to virtual LAN. :neckbeard:

[the1]

... *waits for everyone to stop blatently ignore me*
well now that thats over. anyone got a render model tag and a physics tag and a collision *if collision models are used with havoc phyics* so i can compare all 3 and try to work with someone to develop exporters and compilers or something?

[Dal]

No. I don't enjoy Halo 2's original weapon-set enough (read: at all) to buy the game for a restrictive multiplayer.

[Limited]

Who deleted my posts? They actually contained important information that everyone should know so they can at least try to work it out themselves insteading of crying/whining to kornman.

[jahrain]

I hate it when posts just get randomly deleted with nothing left behind, not even a moderator comment on why the post was removed.

[Pooky]

I hate it when posts just get randomly deleted with nothing left behind, not even a moderator comment on why the post was removed.
^

That happens to me all the time >_>

[Kornman00]

I wasn't going to allow the bickering between you and the Mr Gumball to continue and really didn't have the time this morning to filter through the crap and non-crap.


I hate it when posts just get randomly deleted with nothing left behind, not even a moderator comment on why the post was removed.
1) They weren't randomly deleted.
2) There are comments, you just can't see them because your...well you.


3) Don't get me started Metroid

[the1]

...*gives up*

[Limited]

I hate it when posts just get randomly deleted with nothing left behind, not even a moderator comment on why the post was removed.I can take a guess why they were removed. I just feel they should have been edited instead of totally removed as it did contain information =\

[jahrain]

I can take a guess why they were removed. I just feel they should have been edited instead of totally removed as it did contain information =\Yeah I agree, but I think this should be taken to the admins.

[Snaver]

What kind of information was removed? It couldn't of been that serious :|

[jahrain]

What kind of information was removed? It couldn't of been that serious :|Thats the thing, we don't know...

[Limited]

I basically just said why we cant mod it. How we will mod it and where things are. :D

No need to take it up with admins. I dont want me to turn into a gbx bitch where I whine about everything. I have faith in the mods/admins on these forums :)

[Chewy Gumball]

I don't even know why it started in the first place, we weren't even talking about the same things...

[Pooky]

3) Don't get me started Metroid

What the fuck did I say to you?

poo poo ca ca

[Kornman00]

What the fuck did I say to you?

Ban me

:-3?

[Scooby Doo]

hey, count me in.

i honestly enjoy most of the people here and i'm sure that sooner or later someone will crack this bast**d. atm, i think it's great just to have maps. but gosh it'd be nice to see some of my other stuff in the engine. till then, map away, folks! lol


~Scooby

[blazedelite]

i play the original xbox version of halo and halo2 and let me tell you, when a map is released everyone goes crazy because thats all we get is maps. No custom content or anything. And look how many people who r still playing halo after years and years of old maps and just how maps are more than enough to spark a halo community. Their are over 181,76 players online in halo2 right now playing on old maps and new ones buy no new content

[Kornman00]

I'm planning on just sticking with Halo2 Xbox and just converting the maps made by XCE. Since its taking forever for the fucking game to get officially out, I've just given up with renewing my fucking order and since MS just wants to fuck up the dedicated server functionality for a port of a 2.5 year old game, I could care less about buying the game right now. I'll just use it to renew my XBL subscription for Halo 3, better spent. To think I switched to Vista for this game. At least I didn't have to pay for that too :v

Hey MS, ever hear the customer is always right? Assholes.

[jahrain]

We should push for a Halo 2.5 for the PC. I just wish that microsoft would just listen to any fans that they took a huge dump on with the release.

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4616/msbullshitanim4jd9.gif

[Dole]

What the fuck did I say to you?
Pfft... plague rat.

[Limited]

rofl jahrain. Thats a tad too realistic lol.

I'm pretty sure microsoft will listen to the h2v fans. Just in a year or two...

[p0lar_bear]

I'm pretty sure microsoft will listen to the h2v fans. Just in a year or two...

Just before they announce they drop support for it. :v:

[__Blaz0__]

I dunno, to me it seems like deja vu. The first PC game was released under almost secrecy. The second one is getting the same treatment as far as I can see. Honestly, how big of a seller can this outdated title be other than the hardcore fans? I purchased it for the custom content. I purchased it to play around with and have a way finally to export maps to the Halo 2 engine. Many others purchased this game just to play, because they are fans.

After putting some time into, I honestly feel bad for those of you who are experiencing Halo2 for the first time. You have to have some very good hardware to even think of running this game on decent settings if you don't want a bad framerate hit. Granted, I don't have the best hardware, but at this point, it would be cheaper to run out and purchase another 360 and wait for Halo3. It sure feels to me that this game(I think it's safe to say PC titled versions) is/are an afterthought at best. Kind of like the proverbial black sheep. In both cases have slapped together a watered down version of the editing tools. Lack of documentation(once again), and an even crappier tutorial file for making maps. At least the last one had pictures with many holes in between steps to fill in(lol). To be fair to the fans who purchase all the said titles, they should have not even bothered if these releases were going to be soo half-ass. The first one was botched with crappy netcode, and two different versions of the game in which half the Halo Pc people had no idea that Custom Edition even existed. The second with the Live plague. At first I was kind of excited about hte Live integration because the concept sounded ideal. Thinking about now after playing, I see that the security measures that come along with will be the same things that hold it back most from the people who will continue to play this game until it's way overdone.

That being said, I will continue to play with and learn the tools as some things come available. It's just a matter of time before the tools are in working order. Remember it was quite a long time before there were unlocked versions of the tools that we were provided with in the first place. There was alot accomplished and much learned. Information was scattered and you almost had to be in certain circles if you wanted any real help. I worked on things, got a lot of help along the way from a lot of great people, and I think made some friends along the way. Alot of you, even as pissed off as many are, should think of those things and remember back a bit if you can. I'm not defending Bungie or Microsoft in this case, because I think they have so far a horrible track record of the Halo PC universe, so don't misunderstand that at all. But, I think that some of the people overly-concerned about the lack of editing tools have no reason to be. Many of the crybabies have no concept of how to make anything and merely leech off of of everything and do nothign but cry and complain. Don't let these asshats be a burden on the overall idea.

That being said, if you enjoy the game, play it. If you don't move on, and stop crying. This is nothing new and has been dealt with in the past.

[DTS 7.1]

Yes massa!

[__Blaz0__]

Yes massa!

:P