UMT - Universal Mapping Team

[Teh Ganon]

waiting for jay >.> i redid teh flags, he needs to add those, he is fixing the minor faults with the bsp, his warthogs need to be added, the rocket turret.shaders are being fixed. and we will go from there and see.

[ICEE]

i think the rocket turret is badly placed. but you already knew i felt that way

[Tarzan]

just a thought... see that ramp going to the middle-ish level of the base structure? It just doesn't look right IMO... doesn't look life forerunner architecture...

[mistercheif]

Teh ganon, I have noticed on your site that you are making a halo 3 battle rifle, and i would just like to say good luck on that. I have heard your little insadint with cmt and them acusing you of taking their models that is to bad :( eny way the map i can not wait for from umt is last resort good luck :)

[Jay2645]

I'm back! I've been at my friend's house all day today, and I'm not allowed on his computer. I'll be there tomorrow, too, so...

Anyway, since you're not on Xfire, I'm going to tell you right now.
I hate those tiki torches in the beta. They ruin the feel for the map. Also, the reason why the flags were the standard ones and the hogs were gone was because you forgot to edit the globals (lol). I'm working it on myself as we speak, since I have a clean HEK now, getting rid of that stupid zoom bug.

Anyway, the BSP is finished, except for stupid tool giving me open edge errors when the open edges that tool says are there are in the middle of nowhere...

So, for those people who are confused about what I just said, Archive is nearing completion, every bug I've noticed has been fixed, and I will make more realistic effects using a tutorial I saw somewhere around here by Sunny...

[DaneO'Roo]

Open edges? fix them :/

"his warthogs need to be added"

may we see these hogs please.

[Jay2645]

They're just the standard hogs with a horn and a 3rd person passenger. I'm working on a new model for them, but it probably won't be finished by the time the map is released.

[Mass]

and they are not ripped. just saying.

[Teh Ganon]

Teh ganon, I have noticed on your site that you are making a halo 3 battle rifle, and i would just like to say good luck on that. I have heard your little insadint with cmt and them acusing you of taking their models that is to bad :( eny way the map i can not wait for from umt is last resort good luck :)

I'm not working on anything weapon wise. I got a few maps going though.

[Jay2645]

Everyone can't wait for Last Resort, can they?
Personally, I like all of the attention I'm getting.

[Con]

Everyone can't wait for Last Resort, can they?
Personally, I like all of the attention I'm getting.
That was a joke, right?

[Neuro Guro]

Everyone can't wait for Last Resort, can they?
Personally, I like all of the attention I'm getting.

You're attempting to remake "Last Resort"?

Good luck with that, I doubt its going to look anything like it. Even if you did make the geometry correctly, I bet you would still have problems with it actually rendering all the polys in it. That is if it would be in CE, I don't know about H2v. It may be possible to get it right, but not only would you have to have some good texture artists and good modeling skills, you would have to know how to properly portal the map so it would even run some what decent for people. Since I highly doubt you even have near the amount of skill it would take, I'd suggest trying a more simpler design of your own that could possibly be inspired by the style of Last Resort. Start simple and learn what you're actually doing first before attempting a larger project.

Edit: Oh, and don't forget, you would also have to animate/script the gate devices, and the wheel.

[Jay2645]

That was a joke, right?
Yes, it was a joke. A bad joke, apparently.

Well, I have no deadline for it, so I'm taking my time to make it as accurate as possible.

[Bastinka]

Why do most posts contain 'teh' instead of 'the', a little intelligence can lead to more respect. Anyway, you have one WIP map, as I can see on the website, but it's still not that great. Sure it looks sorta cool, but will it be fun to play for others?

EDIT:
Also, you seem to use extrue-bevel a lot? Try something else than that because thats all I can see in that base 'structure' in the middle of that WIP map.

[Teh Ganon]

ok then. im working on making a new site. without ads n stuff. Its not being done by me. And we have more WIPS, just havnt updated in ahh.... 6 days. been busy with archive. the map with extrude and bevel, yeah that one. Sorry, we don't know how to make maps, we are new and are noobs at life.

[Jay2645]

New? Pppft. Hardly. We as a team are new, but we've all been around the block a few times.

[Bastinka]

Half a year can still be considered new, it depends when you start actually doing something that turns out very productive.

[Teh Ganon]

ooooooooooops

[Mass]

He was joking jay. by the way I modeled the map, so I take responsibility for any modeling that is below your standards. Personally, I don't see whats wrong with extrusion and bevel, as it tends to be the easiest way to get many different things done.

[Tarzan]

amen, massacre.... extrude/bevel is the most useful tool I use... Although I like inset/extrude too in a pinch. There's nothing wrong with using them. You can make some pretty insane stuff that way...

[SnaFuBAR]

hahaha lulz bevel and extrude hahaha lulz

also NO

[p0lar_bear]

Why watch soap operas when I can just read topics on H2V.net? :rolleyes:

Well, you guys seem to have been through quite a lot there. If anything, I hope you guys know know that you should always run background checks on possible team members.

Archive looks pretty good, and I hope it will be played. Good luck in the future.

[Tarzan]

hahaha lulz bevel and extrude hahaha lulz
also NO

I dunno what your problem is... extrude an bevel are VERY useful. Unless you're a weapon modeler and decide to piece together random stuff and make separate collision geometry for it later... If I had the need to make some weird stuff, I'd go for the compound booleans or union... but extrude/bevel/inset/bridge work just fine for 99% of modeling stuff....

[SnaFuBAR]

I dunno what your problem is... extrude an bevel are VERY useful. Unless you're a weapon modeler and decide to piece together random stuff and make separate collision geometry for it later... If I had the need to make some weird stuff, I'd go for the compound booleans or union... but extrude/bevel/inset/bridge work just fine for 99% of modeling stuff....
:lmao: @ bold
:fail: @ underlined

[Bastinka]

I agree with Snaf, Boolean causes lots of errors and can make your model all messy. Extrude/Bevel/Inset are OK tools to use but if you overuse them then it really looks horrible, you can save a lot of polygons if you don't use those tools sometimes. Anyway Bridge, I like to use that tool, but rarely. It's pretty dandy and makes me save time.

You have to remember, SnaFuBAR is a pretty experienced 3d modeller.

[Teh Ganon]

all i can say is I hate boelean. but all errors are fixable. but some not worth it >.> but usually they are <.<

[Tarzan]

well then what would you use? you can't really make a gun out of a high poly object and some parametric modifiers....

[p0lar_bear]

well then what would you use? you can't really make a gun out of a high poly object and some parametric modifiers....

Obviously, you've never heard of plane modeling.

[Tarzan]

you mean basically sticking different shaped planes together?

[P13F4C3]

no, he means you start off with maybe 1 plane then make the base of the gun, then use another plane to make the top part that fires back when you shoot, then maybe a box or plane for the magazine, Each plane has all its detail, not several planes put togethor to make it look good, right?

[Hurrvish]

Oh man, Snaf's gonna make shit fly

[Reaper Man]

Oh man, Snaf's gonna make shit fly
:haw: He doesn't complain about the way I model, then again, I use Maya, but this aught to be good :3

[Con]

:haw: He doesn't complain about the way I model, then again, I use Maya, but this aught to be good :3
:highfive:

[SnaFuBAR]

you mean basically sticking different shaped planes together?
you want to make an absurd claim that extrude/bevel/inset/bridge work for 99% of things, yet you do not even have a clue about plane modeling? do you only work with boxes?

the way i see it, you have 3 options

1) uninstall max forever, because you're clueless
2) stop posting about how to model, because you're clueless
3) LEARN TO MODEL

[Bastinka]

no, he means you start off with maybe 1 plane then make the base of the gun, then use another plane to make the top part that fires back when you shoot, then maybe a box or plane for the magazine, Each plane has all its detail, not several planes put togethor to make it look good, right?
Uh NO.

Plane modeling, well the last time I checked, is when you drag out a plane and delete all it's faces. Then you leave the vertices (little blue dots) and use those to make a shape. Then you connect certain vertices to make a triangle or 'face'. Thats plane modeling.

[thehoodedsmack]

Uh NO.

Plane modeling, well the last time I checked, is when you drag out a plane and delete all it's faces. Then you leave the vertices (little blue dots) and use those to make a shape. Then you connect certain vertices to make a triangle or 'face'. Thats plane modeling.

I don't think that's right...

[LinkandKvel]

Uh NO.

Plane modeling, well the last time I checked, is when you drag out a plane and delete all it's faces. Then you leave the vertices (little blue dots) and use those to make a shape. Then you connect certain vertices to make a triangle or 'face'. Thats plane modeling.
sorry to break it to ya but he was right and your wrong.

[phase]

hahaha lulz bevel and extrude hahaha lulz
ben mathis uses extrude alot are you implying hes a bad modeler?

[Tarzan]

you want to make an absurd claim that extrude/bevel/inset/bridge work for 99% of things, yet you do not even have a clue about plane modeling? do you only work with boxes?

the way i see it, you have 3 options

1) uninstall max forever, because you're clueless
2) stop posting about how to model, because you're clueless
3) LEARN TO MODEL

I don't see that as an absurd claim at all... what you refer to as plane modeling, (or what the guy who posted about moving the vertices around...) I always called vertex modeling. So... I think you can quit your flaming based on my post count. There are some people here who can attest that I can model pretty damned well - I just don't use the same techniques you do - and to say that yours are the only ones that are correct is the height of arrogance.

Again - most of my modeling is BSP and base work. I do most of that work with high-poly cubicals - you should try it sometime. I occasionally use box-in-box to make stuff, but I like working with the cubicals better. Vertex (plane?) modeling is a very effective way of making detailed structures and weapons, especially. Perhaps it is a difference of how we started modeling - NoLimits vs Max/Gmax. Anyway - you can use your method, and I'll use mine.

[Con]

I agree with Tarzan

[Mass]

I find that the tools like extrude, bevel, bridge, inset.... from editable poly are an excellent and easy way to recreate the forerunner style and apply it to new bases and structures, I do however believe that the create vertice tool is a superior tool for most things, considering that it brings 100% accruracy on creating the persons imagined shape. I personally find it most useful as a tool for terrain shaping.

[Rentafence]

Why does the method someone uses to make something matter? All that does matter is the end product. (Did someone say this already? I just read over the last few pages)

[CtrlAltDestroy]

Actually, if an object is poorly modeled, it may not be as optimized as it could be, impacting ingame use. Plus, poor models tend to be harder to UV unwrap.

[DaneO'Roo]

:highfive:

:highfive::horny:

<3 Mayas cut polygon tool

[SnaFuBAR]

I think you can quit your flaming based on my post count.
It was based on your rediculous claim, not your low post count.

to say that yours are the only ones that are correct is the height of arrogance.
Mind giving me an exact quote on where I said that? Oh, I didn't think so.

I do most of that work with high-poly cubicals - you should try it sometime. I occasionally use box-in-box to make stuff, but I like working with the cubicals better.
Been there, done that. I find it less effective and less controlable than plane modeling.

Vertex (plane?) modeling is a very effective way of making detailed structures and weapons, especially.
FYI plane modeling =/= vertex modeling.
.

[Tarzan]

Tarzan, quit making idiotic assumptions about Snaf.

Lol - I see no assumptions. I can tell from his siggy pics he's a much better modeler than I am. But that doesn't mean my methods are wrong just different...

Whatever happened to the UMT guys... I think their thread got threadjacked, first by the ripping police, and now the modeling police....

[Sel]

Well then, this all degenerated really quickly, lets get back on topic.

Theyre UMT,,,,, UMT stands for um... Universal mapping team?

Rofl

[Bastinka]

...the modeling police.
If SnaFu's not pleased, he makes comments that sometimes anger you but are mostly correct.

[Bastinka]

Omigosh, rossums back? Has it been 3 days?..

Anyway, this thread did lose it's on-topicness a long time ago. Like rossum said, make update threads.

[Roostervier]

Lol - I see no assumptions. I can tell from his siggy pics he's a much better modeler than I am. But that doesn't mean my methods are wrong just different...

Whatever happened to the UMT guys... I think their thread got threadjacked, first by the ripping police, and now the modeling police....
Don't try to shove the (second) thread-jacking (gotta love "-"s if you catch my drift) off on anyone else--you are mostly to blame for it. And this is mostly because you did not like Snaf's answer so you continued the argument. Why would he give up when he knew he was right?

[Mass]

Well....I suppose I'm pretty much the only person capable of really getting this thread back on topic, and I really don't have much to say, so if this gets locked, I really couldn't care less...:eyesroll:

[DaaxGhost]

It's your Universal Map Team Topic. You should care.. This map team seems to be pretty good. massacre your models are very nice. Keep it up.

[fatso784]

So...when can we expect to see your first map release (tentative, of course)?

[Jay2645]

It's getting closer. We just redid the model, there's a couple other things I wanted to fix that I missed, so I'm going to fix those, and I'm also going to add some light into the red and blue bases. The hallways have lit-up ceilings, so they're fine, but the bases themselves need a bit more light.

Other then that, it looks really nice. I just did Radiosity on Beta 5, I couldn't do final lightmaps because I got the stupid "Radiosity Error: Out of Memory" error, but even with temporary lightmaps, the sky makes it look just beautiful. Light spills out of the Hallways realistically, it's set at dusk, so there is some light, but not much, and if you look over the cliff (Don't fall off) you can see water stretching as far as the eye can see.

[fatso784]

Sweet sounds like you guys are working hard over there to insure that there's no graphical errors. I'm tired of all the boxy maps over at halomaps, its good there's a light at the end of the tunnel :P

[Tarzan]

BTW - how'd you do that stuff with the water as far as you can see? I had a map I wanted to do that in... couldn't figure out how.

[Rentafence]

BTW - how'd you do that stuff with the water as far as you can see? I had a map I wanted to do that in... couldn't figure out how.

I'm not sure if this is correct, but I think you have the plane extend out of the skybox.

[Jay2645]

^ That is correct.

[Teh Ganon]

And now I have to edit the bsp.... fix the errors of ppl being silly thinking additions to the bases are cool O.o

[Jay2645]

*Looks at Simulacrum*
It's all Sim's fault, really. I just made a few tiny modifications.

Anywho, Ganon has fixed all of the errors in the model (Hopefully), and I will be running final lightmaps tonight. Before I do that, though, I need to add some lights. (Runs off to get some lights off of Halomaps)

[Teh Ganon]

At least sim got a waterfall and stream there :party:

[Jay2645]

Archive's almost done, so I suppose I can give more screenies:
http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/large/3cdc1041d53fd9a9ce48308f9884acd74dd2326d.jpg
UMT Archive in a near-final state.

http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/large/f3171d9f6e003c02652a8f91be2149cd8291c968.jpg
The Teleporter under the rocks, and the river's source.

http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/large/17dbea2e0c2146a83941d3c97e0acdd4eaeeadb3.jpg
Blue Base.

http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/large/c381dd729c1f3b8159ae62b77eabdd2e215d7afa.jpg
Red Base.

http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/large/e81ed26a861e35bbdc64c364b6964a2b15017424.jpg
Red Flag.

http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/large/f366eb51b63b88ac51cf2f9fd3cafbf69268ba1e.jpg
Blue Flag.

http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/large/2f113db1476396203778075f7a3558be41db5d83.jpg
The entrance to the "Purple Room" hallways, and the new text color.

http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/large/02c196d6b47effbf45ff1075ba6d73fe236174e1.jpg
Master Chief.

http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/large/6d9d2a0b4b7b834bdfded1fe5a9f4d5a34555921.jpg
The "Purple Room". It got like that by Accident, the Red and Blue team lights are on the hallways, and Red+Blue=Purple.

http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/large/7325f7a141478f6016ed501a0314f05bcafd49dc.jpg
The other side of the "Purple Room".

http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/large/0abe2b788b2b99dbca66c8c6d933bd33bacccefc.jpg
Another overhead view of Archive.

http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/large/1138d94d1cab87c17b1cf971f2c1712a4c6d6b45.jpg
Doing a jump in a Hog over the river.

And I have finally gotten off of my lazy ass and made a vehicle. It's a very unflattering Sapien screenshot, taken out of my laziness to go into Halo and take a screenie there. This new ATV (It's a modified version of KiLLa's) works ingame, and has a passenger sit in the back:
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7974/screeniegi6.png
It has a working throttle, and that handlebar is bent realistically, it's just the angle. I do have 1 quick question, though. Anyone know how to change MC's animations so he can actually grab on to the handlebars rather than grab on to an imaginary Warthog's steering wheel?

[Rosco]

Looks to me like KiLLa's atv with a cilander across the dash board. :|

[Berkut]

Aside from the ATV, which looks to be nothing more than a blatantly obvious hackjob on KiLLa's, I'm really liking what I see.

[Jay2645]

Meh, It is a crappy redo of the ATV, and I do still credit KiLLa in the readme. I need to redo it from scratch, but I was working against a deadline.

[CtrlAltDestroy]

It looks nice, but it doesn't look... "polished".

Open your ground shader in guerilla and check "simple parameterization"; rerun radiosity. It'll get rid of those annoying black streaks.

[fatso784]

I don't mean anything by this buuut.... can I join UMT? :D

Yeah if you guys fix the ground shader the map will look picture-perfect. You're sticking with the Forerunner-style but adding multiplayer elements like the lighting, I'm looking forward to its release.

[Scooby Doo]

o look...another group has ripped cmt stuff. seems to be happening alot lately. jw, if it hasn't already been determined about the SL, may i see the actual bitmap please? kthx.


and to be on topic, you guys have got to update your bitmaps. they hardly brush realism...


~Scooby

[Jay2645]

o look...another group has ripped cmt stuff. seems to be happening alot lately. jw, if it hasn't already been determined about the SL, may i see the actual bitmap please? kthx.


and to be on topic, you guys have got to update your bitmaps. they hardly brush realism...


~Scooby
None of the stuff you see is ripped from CMT. Well, the ATV is ripped from Yoyorast Island, but I am working on a new model right now. It's all a matter of if I can get it done by the 29th, which is the day it will be out.

[Teh Ganon]

o look...another group has ripped cmt stuff. seems to be happening alot lately. jw, if it hasn't already been determined about the SL, may i see the actual bitmap please? kthx.


and to be on topic, you guys have got to update your bitmaps. they hardly brush realism...


~Scooby

We had an issue with a member, which has been resolved. I suppose taht you should talk to D4no, since he was the one that umm talked to him.

We are editing the bsp a bit for you on topic statement...

[}_50Æ{_|ñeا†«O]

Well, as you can see, I'm on the members list, so...
Anyway, yeah, that's our mapping team. We're still deciding on a first project.

How about a futturistic new mombassa/coruscant hybrid?

[DaaxGhost]

How about a futturistic new mombassa/coruscant hybrid?
uh... crescent? ohhh starwars..hahah sorry.

[}_50Æ{_|ñeا†«O]

lol

ther ahven't been many urban maps made.. mostly indoors maps. We need some epic city stuff.

[Teh Ganon]

As off-topic your post is, I'm VERY VERY slowly working on a map based on Xizor's Palace, in courocsant.

[}_50Æ{_|ñeا†«O]

As off-topic your post is, I'm VERY VERY slowly working on a map based on Xizor's Palace, in courocsant.

Holy damn.

Can't wait to see it.

[Jay2645]

Ooh. Maybe we can get together and make a Star Wars map. I have an ARC-170 Starfighter that's been sitting on my Hard drive for a while now.

[DaaxGhost]

Uhh...yes but you know how long that would take.. Along time! if you are thinking of animating it; I would say that's gonna be very hard., But I could help even though I don't know that much of star wars. It could be possible just not probable that you would finish it. But if you want an animator I will help.

[Jay2645]

Animating Star Wars vehicles isn't really hard, I've done it with my ARC-170.

[Teh Ganon]

animating is tedious but doesn't take years O_o

[Jay2645]

Especially not if you are one of the few that *Gasp* like animating. We have an X-Wing, too, one of the people on our team, Murderdollz, has made a X-Wing a while back.

[Teh Ganon]

OK now to bring this a bit more on-topic with a semi important update.

Thanks to ZSDG07, we have a new and improved website : http://www.freewebs.com/umtmapping/

its still being made, and obviosly not done >.>

[Jay2645]

Needs a direct link to the forums on the sidebar.

[Phalanx_Master]

Hey ganon remember to add me to that list of people in the team cause im still in umt if you were wondering.

[CtrlAltDestroy]

Uh, use the private messaging system.

[Jay2645]

OK, Archive is almost done. We're making some final adjustments now, fixing some errors we caught yesterday, lowering the ROF on our chaingun, the like. I'm still waiting for dEEp to get back to me on those backpack weapons tags, so we can have everything finished. It will be on Halomaps Sunday.

[Limited]

Congrats, you just buchered the shit out of the ATV. Way to insult Killa. Killa is one of the gods of CE in my opinon. Did you ask to use his ATV? No? Hmm, not very nice, although I suppose it does show you really like it and want it in your map.

Oh wait, you added one "tube" to the handlebars, that is straight (you say its bent, well show me in that screenshot where the curve is), after stealing his tags without permission, you arent happy with the look, so you add a craply skinned "bar" to the handlebars that I bet doesnt even move right?

Taking is one thing, adding shit to it because you feel its not good enough is just insulting to everyone. I'm surprised any one from CE even talks/reads this topic.

And I suppose you think its all hunkydoory by adding "Credit - Killa" on the readme.

[Bastinka]

What are you talking about Limited?

Anyway, why did this horrible thread get bumped.. D:

[Jay2645]

Objections in red.

Congrats, you just buchered the shit out of the ATV. Way to insult Killa. Killa is one of the gods of CE in my opinon. Did you ask to use his ATV? No? Hmm, not very nice, although I suppose it does show you really like it and want it in your map.
I agree with the fact that KiLLa is a god in CE, but if the ATV had been butchered (It's spelled like that, not buchered) the shit out of it, Yoyorast wouldn't even consider it being in V2.

Oh wait, you added one "tube" to the handlebars,
(Actually, there's 5: The handlebars, the 2 grips on each end, the throttle, and the little thing to hold up the handlebars.)
that is straight (you say its bent, well show me in that screenshot where the curve is),
It is curved, it's just the angle.
after stealing his tags without permission, you arent happy with the look, so you add a craply skinned "bar" to the handlebars
The skin needs a detail map, I just threw it together quickly in Paint. It looks a lot nicer now.
that I bet doesnt even move right?
It does move, and very nicely at that.

Taking is one thing, adding shit to it because you feel its not good enough is just insulting to everyone.
So everyone who makes a custom hog is being insulting? I'll be sure to inform CMT, Yoyorast, and anyone else who has made a custom hog. Then, we have those that have made other custom vehicles. I'll have to inform them to stop, too.
I'm surprised any one from CE even talks/reads this topic.
They read this topic because they see that we actually have potential. If you're against it, then you don't have to read it. As they say, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.".

And I suppose you think its all hunkydoory by adding "Credit - Killa" on the readme.
At least we give him credit. I am working on a custom model for it, but it won't get skinned in time for the release. Until then, we'll be using his model and giving him credit, which is better then what Hogfaggot does. Or would you rather that I not give credit to anyone? There were a lot of people that we give credit to, Bungie, KiLLa, D4no, and a lot more. If I don't give credit and they get angry at me, then I'll be sure to point them at the guy who is at fault-You.
Also, I sent a PM to KiLLa earlier this week asking for permission to use a severely modfied version of his ATV. He has yet to reply.

[Phalanx_Master]

What are you talking about Limited?

Anyway, why did this horrible thread get bumped.. D:

because you posted?

[Teh Ganon]

About the atv: ill model a new 1. Simple as that.

[Limited]

Sorry Jay, I over estimated your intelligence, let me clarify.


I agree with the fact that KiLLa is a god in CE, but if the ATV had been butchered (It's spelled like that, not buchered) the shit out of it, Yoyorast wouldn't even consider it being in V2.I suggest collectively reading the sentence instead of nit picking parts of it. ATV was fine, until your team got their dirty hands on it. Also Yoyorast would prefer madworksz (I think thats his name) ATV, as his just owns. Killa's ATV is still amazing, however yoyorast would like madworks, Yoyorast is only considering it to be in V2 due to the fact he needs an ATV to make the map more diverse.

Fair enough there's 5 cylinders, however its one set piece, that looks like you have stolen a model and super glued on a basic set of handlebars. You say you have reskinned it, it might not stick out as much, hopefully it looks fluid :)


So everyone who makes a custom hog is being insulting? I'll be sure to inform CMT, Yoyorast, and anyone else who has made a custom hog. Then, we have those that have made other custom vehicles. I'll have to inform them to stop, too.Again, you need to read the whole sentence, this time concentrating about the first 4 words. You took the model, tags and skin etc.

Your ATV isnt a custom ATV, its killa's ATV. I was dwelling on the fact that you took a prefectly fine ATV and killed it with what you added.

I do commend you for trying to improve it, however I dont feel the improvements do it justice.


They read this topic because they see that we actually have potential. If you're against it, then you don't have to read it. As they say, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.".To be perfectly honest, I dont read it. I skip through the pages that have been added that I haven't seen and nearly all of them are pointless, a waste of space and not worth reading.


"If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.".In a dream fake world that's true. However none of us live in The Truman Show. Why do I post this which could be considered saying some thing not nice, Killa isnt around CE, therefore he cant defend himself and his work. What gives me the permission to defend him? I'm not, I'm just saying the best interests. He might totally disagree with me, but theres no harm in being cautious.



There were a lot of people that we give credit to, Bungie, KiLLa, D4no, and a lot more. If I don't give credit and they get angry at me, then I'll be sure to point them at the guy who is at fault-You. You give credit? Thats debatable, you were forced into giving credit, if none of us had said, you WOULDN'T have given credit, hence why I am saying what I am saying now. You guys dont automatically think, you need to be told, perhaps?

[CtrlAltDestroy]

because you posted?
No, you bumped it. diaf

[Jay2645]

OK Limited, now I can see what you mean.

About the atv: ill model a new 1. Simple as that.
Go ahead and get on that Ganon. You have about 36 hours to model and skin. Give the max file to me afterwards and I'll scale, export, and tag.

[Teh Ganon]

this will be interesting.

[Phalanx_Master]

No, you bumped it. diaf

Ya okay buddy I guess your right about that.

[Jay2645]

Archive, our first release, has been pushed back a week to allow for some finishing touches.
Here's a pic of our chaingun, to prove that not everything is ripped or stolen:
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x63/TeH_DeEp/ahobov1022007-07-2707-10-17-05.jpg
Most of our stuff are just placeholders for the real models, that ATV is one of them. Ganon is working on a new ATV since I can't model for crap.

[Skyline]

Archive, our first release, has been pushed back a week to allow for some finishing touches.
Here's a pic of our chaingun, to prove that not everything is ripped or stolen:

Sorry but that looks like the warthog turret with some horrible modeling job on it to make it look like halo 3's. So technically that was ripped from bungie's warthog model.

[CtrlAltDestroy]

Yeah, that doesn't look very appealing at all. :/

[Teh Ganon]

model will have to be altered a bit. then it will look fine.

[p0lar_bear]

You guys shouldn't be too worried about the ATV, actually.

Your ATV isnt a custom ATV, its killa's ATV.

Get the ownership deally right: it's Bungie's ATV.

As awesome as KiLLa was with knowing the HEK and animations, he wasn't the best modeler; as far as I know, the only thing he's successfully modeled was Hypothermia itself. Feel free to correct me, as I haven't been with the CE community since the way beginning, but I know that his Battle Rifle, Beam Rifle, and Mongoose were ripped, and his USP and Smach were models take off of Turbosquid and put in-game; also rather half-assedly I might add.

You have to give him some credit for trying, though, as all of that was put in-game before the easy model, bitmap, and sound extractors that we have today, and not to mention all of the in-depth tutorials, were created.

[SnaFuBAR]

you guys are gonna need more than a week if this is how you work...

[Jay2645]

We're very disorganized. =P
We learn about things by checking our various topics on different forums.

[Bastinka]

model will have to be altered a bit. then it will look fine.
Is that a promise? :-3

[Jay2645]

Is that a promise? :-3
'Course it is.

[CtrlAltDestroy]

Don't make promises you can't keep.

[Jay2645]

Trust me, I'm gonna be keeping this one.

[Bastinka]

Trust me, I'm gonna be keeping this one.
You wanna bet? :)

Don't make promises you can't keep.
Yeah, take his word of advice. :giggle:

[Jay2645]

Anyway, I have modeled a new ATV, it's still KiLLa's (Or rather Bungie's), but modified severely.
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/70/mongooseyk1.png
Any suggestions before I export and animate?

[Bastinka]

Fix the smoothing, re-model it so you can call it 'yours'. And that looks like the Mongoose in Yoyorast, I don't remember if Killa actually did make it.

[CtrlAltDestroy]

Fix the smoothing and show us a comparison to KiLLa's (or rather Bungie's) original ATV.

[Jay2645]

It is the Mongoose for Yoyorast, I'm working on a new model for him in case the H3 one phails to pull through, which seems most likely at this point. Yoyorast approves of he model, his only suggestion is lower the poly count a smidge.

[Skyline]

Where's the texture? Get a better angle, thats a terrible angle to take a render from.

[Jay2645]

Those wheels and that handlebar took a long time to make!
But anyway, here's some comparison screenies, I still need to change the UVWs on the wheels a bit.
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/5607/topzo5.png
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9937/bottomtz9.png
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1408/frontjy9.png
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/4969/backpf8.png
Also, the reason I mentioned it was "Heavily Modified" was because I changed a lot of things about the vehicle itself, such as the passenger seat, the gunless driver, the horn removal (New horn has been reinstated), the improved physics, slightly adjusted speed (Nothing too noticeable, but it helps keep the thing from flipping at times), in addition to the model.

[Apoc4lypse]

It looks nice, but it doesn't look... "polished".

Open your ground shader in guerilla and check "simple parameterization"; rerun radiosity. It'll get rid of those annoying black streaks.

not always... somthing that I havent seen posted yet about wierd and annoying shadows that people can't get rid of when running radiosity.

Smoothing heavily effects radiosity and shadows, if you have smoothing errors you will get alot of wierdness in shadows and they wont go away until you fix the smoothing/geometry. So yeah, be sure to fix smoothing errors :).

As for the ATV, meh calm down... if he gives credit its fine, altho I'm pretty sure killa would be annoyed (he never liked hek+ or the idea of open source tagging), but so far what theyv'e shown has potential and is starting to look nice, although they need to work out the lighting in the map more, and some of it could be modeled better, its still a nice map.

I personally wouldn't use the atv, I'd reccomend making your own, unless u ask killa, but no ones really going to stop you from using it as long as you have credit given.

Tbh I think you should all calm down about the atv and just see what happens.. its not like having the atv in the maps going to ruin the map, it will only make it better, itd be another story if he had given no credit, and the map sucked.

So yeah.. back off :eyesroll: the ripping accusations are getting a little old.

actualy, thats bungies model... so why all the fuss?

[Jay2645]

Just an FYI, I PMed KiLLa about the permission thing a few days ago, he has yet to respond.

[p0lar_bear]

actualy, thats bungies model... so why all the fuss?

There's a number of people in the community who believe that tags "belong" to any certain individual, and feel the need to ePolice it. Legally, we don't own jack diddly shit.

I've always felt that, if a person can get a tagset to integrate smoothly or seamlessly with their map and/or mod, kudos to them. It's been proven that half of the noobtards who we feel the need to "protect" "our" tags from can't even make a map worth playing, and that people who want the content won't even be able to use it.

Think about it. Dozens of useful resources have been released that could make modding and content creation easier; anything from weapon tagsets and tutorials, to Kornball's TagInterface libraries. They go unused because nobody has the intelligence or patience to use them for what they're worth, and pass them off as useless, simply because it won't make an awesome map for them with CMT's content. :/

[Mass]

I agree, the end goal should be to make stuff that benefits the community and all in all have more fun. I mean the idea of someone using your work to benefit themselves is not a pleasent one, but, It wasn't really yours to begin with, and if people abuse your work, so what--I mean, don't download their stupid mods, don't listen to their pathetic (pre)pubescent attempts at impressing people. I feel like this is more of an issue than it really is, and now people perfectly capable of asking permission and giving credit are being nailed to the wall over other's mistakes. Its been blown out of proportion in my opinion.

[Jay2645]

Man, this ATV in max has given me one problem after another, I may as well had made my own model. But it works in Sapien, just needs some adjusting and the new horn Yoyo gave me.

[Skyline]

You talk about it being heavily modified and yet there are only new wheels and a handle bar, both easy to make. The main body/frame is still the same, nothings changed.

[Roostervier]

Man, this ATV in max has given me one problem after another, I may as well had made my own model. But it works in Sapien, just needs some adjusting and the new horn Yoyo gave me.
I think you should have, really. It would have been much nicer that you had made a custom one rather than editing one.

[SnaFuBAR]

You talk about it being heavily modified and yet there are only new wheels slapped on hog wheels and a handle bar, both easy to make. The main body/frame is still the same, nothings changed.
:eng101:

[Tarzan]

Sorry to jump on the proverbial bandwagon, but the only changes I see are the different wheels, the handlebar, and a slight modification to the rear wheel guards.

[Jay2645]

You talk about it being heavily modified and yet there are only new wheels and a handle bar, both easy to make. The main body/frame is still the same, nothings changed.
OK, first off, Hog wheels look different then my wheels. Hog wheels don't have 3 huge gaping holes in the side like these do.
The main body has been re-smoothened, KiLLa's original had some smoothing errors.
Just because it looks the same in a render doesn't mean it'll handle the same. I have a new backseat to the thing, making it have 2 seats now, not to mention all-new animations (So the handlebars turn with the wheels, I'm not going to do any cheap imitation handlebars that don't actually do anything), but there is all-new suspension for the thing, built from the ground up. I'm working on some custom sounds for it right now.

[Archon23]

Mmkay got a video to prove all that?

[Skyline]

From your first picture it looks like it has twice as many smoothing errors. I think he ment the texture for the wheels was the same. So what if it handles differently; it could be worse then what it orginially was. We are talking about the model, which is all that is shown.

[Limited]

There's a number of people in the community who believe that tags "belong" to any certain individual, and feel the need to ePolice it. Legally, we don't own jack diddly shit.
"We"?
I think you need to remember some of us live in different countries where different copyright laws apply.

I like the new ATV, more beefy and looks more h3'y to me. Nice work.

[Jay2645]

Thanks. Glad to see someone here likes it. It's done, except for 1 little bug, which I'm fixing now.

EDIT: You want video? Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Quog-dP9PgY
Happy Birthday.

[p0lar_bear]

"We"?
I think you need to remember some of us live in different countries where different copyright laws apply.

Copyrights don't mean shit. The word on the street today is: "licensing"

No matter what copyright laws your country has, we do not own the game or the resources; we hold but a mere license to use the game, editing kit, and tags.

[Apoc4lypse]

ok wait wait wait... didnt the origional model come from bungie, killa didnt make the model he got it from bungie right? All killa did was animations and physics, and then the tagging. In the credits it says jay redid the animations and the physics, so whats he stealing from killa? Its not like the rest of the tagging is a big mystery to make... he remade the animations and the physics which are the main thing that killa made for the atv, so whats the big deal.

As for criticism, tbh I dont like the animations and the physics, maybe the physics seem ok but the suspensions and animations are awkward and seem to be missing completely. I think it needs reworking, you dont really see the suspensions moving at all.

Also the holes in the tires seem out of place to me, but w/e.

[Bastinka]

Thanks. Glad to see someone here likes it. It's done, except for 1 little bug, which I'm fixing now.

EDIT: You want video? Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Quog-dP9PgY
Happy Birthday.
Rofl @ Warthog physics, make some new physics.. After all the MC is like 2 Tons, which doesn't make any sense :confused2:

[Skyline]

Ya those physics don't look any better then the one's that were already there. The tires also seem too big for the whole thing.

[AAA]

That ATV is going to be in Yoyorast v2?

[Jay2645]

Rofl @ Warthog physics, make some new physics.. After all the MC is like 2 Tons, which doesn't make any sense :confused2:
It's not Warthog physics, it's modified Warthog physics. :eng101:
Plus, if I give the ATV back it's physics, I have the same problem the original ATV had, which was flipping.

[Jay2645]

That ATV is going to be in Yoyorast v2?
Yeah, Yoyorast likes it, he's played that build you see in the video. That's not him playing, but it's the same build. The horn is one of his own design, which I like, even though it won't be in Archive's final.

[Archon23]

He never said anything about giving the ATV back its old physics he said make new physics. :eng101:

[p0lar_bear]

Make your own physics; if you need an example, rec0 coded a physics importer, and it's on halomaps.org.

[Jay2645]

He never said anything about giving the ATV back its old physics he said make new physics. :eng101:
School me at my own game, huh?
I guess I'll use the ATV's physics.

[Limited]

Copyrights don't mean shit. The word on the street today is: "licensing"

No matter what copyright laws your country has, we do not own the game or the resources; we hold but a mere license to use the game, editing kit, and tags.
I still hold IP to the content.

ATV seems a bit too rigid, needs more suspension animations :P

[Mass]

I still hold IP to the content. Once its out of max or whatever modeling program you use I don't think you do.


ATV seems a bit too rigid, needs more suspension animations :P I'll hop on the :bandwagon: and agree.

[SnaFuBAR]

Once its out of max or whatever modeling program you use I don't think you do.
FALSE.

[ICEE]

i believe once something has been run through tool it belongs to bungie, doesnt it

[Limited]

Once its out of max or whatever modeling program you use I don't think you do.

I'll hop on the :bandwagon: and agree.
I think you guys need to understand what IP truely is.

IP never loses its status whether its compiled, decompiled, or any thing. Its still intact.

[DaneO'Roo]

That ATV is going to be in Yoyorast v2?


nope :haw:


we got a hold of Madworkz today

[p0lar_bear]

Here is the lowdown on the IP/Copyright/Ownership deally; my aim is to end this discussion right here:

IP (Intellectual Property) is, in essence, designs, outlines, brands, mascots, etc, etc, etc. When you create a new idea from scratch, it is your IP. The Halo universe is Bungie's IP. Everything in it is also Bungie's IP. Something is only YOUR IP if it is an original creation, and isn't a modification; i.e. I create a character for an RPG game. The character is a hardass, and prefers longswords as weapons. I may have based my character off of Squaresoft's Cloud Strife, but my character is still my IP. Inversely, if I took Cloud, and gave him a new image, say a new haircut, better combat uniform, and had him using guns instead of a sword, he is still Cloud Strife, Squaresoft's creation, and therefore, their IP.

Copyrights are laws that limit usage and reusage of content and/or IP; in essence, they are there to say who has the right to copy stuff. Anytime you create any kind of data, whether it be a script, a video, a 3D model, it is automatically copyrighted to you, the creator. Only the MEDIUM is copyrighted; anything within the content retains whatever copyright it may have (i.e. if I shoot a video in front of a McDonald's with my characters, I don't own McDonald's, just my characters). You can file for copyright documents, but that's a formality that you only should take if you're in big business, or if you plan to make money with your creation. All the papers do is make it harder for someone to steal your work.

And as I stated earlier, the word on the street is "licensing." All software is distributed with some sort of license agreement; the rights to the software itself are RARELY sold, and if they are, it's usually to another company. When you purchase software, in essence, you are actually just purchasing a license to use that software. When you go to install a piece of software, you are presented with that dreaded document called the End-User License Agreement (EULA). In it are specific instructions, that tell you what you may and may not do with your license. If you overstep that EULA, the owner of the software has every legal right in the world to terminate the agreement and revoke your license, thus saying "no, you cannot use my program. DIAF."

So, let's apply this to Halo CE and, more specifically, the HEK. The EULA basically states that we are allowed to use Bungie's proprietary tag format for use within the Blam engine, and it only. When you compile a model, bitmap, string list, etc, whatever, the tag file belongs to BUNGIE. The source file belongs to whoever created it.

In this situation, the Mongoose model and related bitmaps were ripped from the Halo 2 Alpha. KiLLa remapped the textures (I think, not too sure there), exported the model and textures into Halo CE tags, redid the physics, added animations, and got it in-game.

Here's a pop quiz:


Keeping everything I just stated in this post in mind, WHOSE ATV is it?
It is Bungie's, through and through.

Also, let's take a look at another vehicle that's open-sourced: the Bulldog. Jahrain created that model based on art found in an Art of Halo book. He created the model, bitmaps, and physics. Does the Bulldog rightfully belong to Jahrain, or Bungie?
The Bulldog is technically Bungie's; though Jahrain created the model and bitmaps, it doesn't change the fact that the Bulldog is an item from the Halo universe.

Finally, someone models himself a Beretta M92F. He skins it and gets it in-game, complete with custom sound effects, particle effects, all stuff he manages to create on his own. Does he legally own it?
The 3D model, perhaps, but Pietro Beretta owns the rights to the Model 92F handgun.

[Jay2645]

nope :haw:


we got a hold of Madworkz today
You did?
Less pressure on me then.

Anyway, I try making new physics, and I get this screwy error:
EXCEPTION halt in \halopc\haloce\source\math\matrix_math.c,#1109: !realcmp(determinant, 0.0f)
Any ideas on how to fix?

[Teh Ganon]

I like how it says matrix_math. That totally does not sound hard at all.

[Jay2645]

I have a feeling I'm going have to rename myself Neo and take a look myself...

[Apoc4lypse]

sounds like u changed some kind of value in the physics tag that wasn't meant to be changed. Just a guess, try recompiling the physics over a working one. (So only the mass points are used) then re-edit everything. Mb Idk I havent done physics in... I think its nearing 1 year now since I made a vehicle.

[Tarzan]

Anyway, I try making new physics, and I get this screwy error:
EXCEPTION halt in \halopc\haloce\source\math\matrix_math.c,#1109: !realcmp(determinant, 0.0f)
Any ideas on how to fix?

I'm not entirely sure what the deuce causes that, but I think it has to do with mass points. I was talking to adumbass about animation graphs and physics the other day, and I got my "vehicle" (scenery) in Sapien, but it just kinda falls from the sky. I haven't messed with the physics tag much yet, but I used to get that error when I tried to set the mass points. And I don't know why.

[p0lar_bear]

You should be creating your physics file in MAX, and then importing it with Tool, not doing it in a tag manually. :/

[FRain]

OW PHYSICS MANUALLY.....

Just OW..

[CtrlAltDestroy]

They take literally 5 minutes...

[Lightning]

Or less. D:

[Jay2645]

Don't worry, I have custom physics now. I took their advice and overwrote the physics I was using with the custom physics. Works a lot better now.

[Bastinka]

Don't worry, I have custom physics now. I took their advice and overwrote the physics I was using with the custom physics. Works a lot better now.

:picsorstfu:, not pics. Better yet another video of proof.

[Jay2645]

I'll make a video soon. About the same time, I'll make a video showcasing the new UMT Spartan Laser. Works just like Halo 3's, there's just a couple bugs I need to work out.
Anyone know of a good tutorial on how to make custom zoom meters? I'm going to check Ghost's tutorials, but does anyone know?

[fatso784]

I just noticed - how comes you're the only one doing anything in UMT, Jay? What's up with that?

[Huero]

Well, from what I can see, the map is almost done, the Mongoose is the only thing needing work. Maybe a few bug fixes on Archive, but I think the Mongoose is main priority.
On a side note; Jay, I haven't seen you on xfire >:

[Con]

I just noticed - how comes you're the only one doing anything in UMT, Jay? What's up with that?
It's a shame too, UMT can do better..

[PenGuin1362]

They take literally 5 minutes...

hardly that

[CtrlAltDestroy]

Yeah, even less.

[Mass]

I just noticed - how comes you're the only one doing anything in UMT, Jay? What's up with that?



It's a shame too, UMT can do better..

Well, actually I finished a texturing a new BSP already, and have 2 untextured. :haw:

We have been too lazy to post about the other projects we have going on, and I like to wait 'till the map gets somewhere to announce it that way you don't get tons of criticism about stuff you were already going to fix.

[Teh Ganon]

I just noticed - how comes you're the only one doing anything in UMT, Jay? What's up with that?

excuse me? Ive been fixing errors and preparing 2 maps for release, as well as working on a few side projects. I have a few maps of my own I'm working on, as well as few vehicle/weapon projects.

[Archon23]

You realize that in order for everyone to actually not assume Jay's doing all the work it requires you to actually post the crap your working on.

In other words: :picsorstfu:

[Bastinka]

You realize that in order for everyone to actually not assume Jay's doing all the work it requires you to actually post the crap your working on.

In other words: :picsorstfu:
That smiley really comes in handy. :)

[Teh Ganon]

That smiley does indeed come in handy lol. But here is my story i geuss... I'm making finishing touches on the archive model, fixing a few UVW's. I'm trying to get this one in-game, the new map ensnared. (Both models by Massacre)

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u302/tehganon/ensnaredrender.jpg

And as well as I pretty much regulate the team and find out what is going on. As for personal projects, the ones that I will show you are far from done... and they dont look too good right now either. But, I suppose it helps prove i'm doing something. Here is a racetrack I'm working on:

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u302/tehganon/racetrack1.jpg

And the very start to a battle rifle type weapon i'm creating.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u302/tehganon/new1.jpg

And to whom it may concern, these aren't all the things that i'm working on personally. Just the things I felt like showing. I am also in the process of ordering parts to a new computer that I will build myself. In the process I will sell massacre my old video card Xp.

[Bastinka]

Wireframes please, the map doesn't look ALL that bad.. But still could use improvements cliff-wise.

[Teh Ganon]

Here:

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u302/tehganon/wireensnared.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u302/tehganon/wiretrack.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u302/tehganon/brwire.jpg

[SnaFuBAR]

lmao, gun is already too high poly, and the rail is absolutely horrid. keep trying though.

[Teh Ganon]

it's actually my first weapon. and it's not that high poly. needs some manual optimization, and smoothing. like I said:

they dont look too good right now either. But, I suppose it helps prove i'm doing something.

[SnaFuBAR]

if it's your first gun, and you clearly don't understand poly optimization, you're in no position to say it's not that high poly. it is entirely off to a bad start.

[Teh Ganon]

Thanks for the encouragment.

[SnaFuBAR]

weapon modeling tutorials:
http://tutorials.moddb.com/16/beretta-9000-video-tutorial/

[Tweek]

that map, it's all got FAR FAR too little polys.

you need to invest in some good terrain and cliffs.

[Mass]

yeah, that sure is the case. I had planned to do some tesselating and more land manipulation, but I wanted to get it in-game to check to see what else needed to be done before I did that.

[Bastinka]

Tesselating is for noobs who don't know how to model. :fail:

Don't tesselate, every time you use it god kills babies. :[

[Mass]

ok, then perhaps you would like to suggest a better way for me to add new vertices to my cliffs without having to recreate them from scratch.:confused:

[Bastinka]

ok, then perhaps you would like to suggest a better way for me to add new vertices to my cliffs without having to recreate them from scratch.:confused:

Pretty much the nicest way to make cliffs turn out nice. :)

[Mass]

Damn, I have to do it again. :(
I'll see about, I'm not gonna be able to model for the next week though, so It'll have to wait.

[Con]

that map, it's all got FAR FAR too little polys.

you need to invest in some good terrain and cliffs.
^.

They're about as gross as that gun right now.

[Mass]

Are you referring to on top or below or just all around...

[ICEE]

that new map looks really good.

[Jay2645]

UMT News Update:

It has come time to come to the realization that we are a lost cause without the involvement of every member and a dedicated leader. We have worked without the new equal exposure to every member. We need to become a solid workforce with a solid plan of organization. I've come to the conclusion that I will be the first appointed leader of UMT. I will now share with you guys the plan of UMT. I will be interviewing each of you to talk about your talents and what you possibly excel at. A page with the details of reference will be made upon the completion of my report. What I mean by reference is the resource of relying on a teammate to aid or develop. Collaborative development will lead to somewhat of a diffusion upon members. This is the new UMT, welcome.



UMT's new Leader,

UMT~Teh Ganon

[Bastinka]

New after what, 2 weeks of just being made?

Wow that shows some stability right there. :)

[Archon23]

Wait, You guys DIDN'T have a leader until now?

[Jay2645]

Nope. We were a disorganized band of people who assumed that Ganon would tell us what to do. New recruit wanted to join? We told them to go see Ganon. We wanted to make a new UMT map? We got the model made and then went and saw Ganon. Pretty much everything was "Go see Ganon about it.", so this isn't much of a change.

[Teh Ganon]

Pretty much what happened was I became more of an official leader and I'm working on a new way the team will work together.

[Bastinka]

Pretty much what happened was I became more of an official dictator and I'm working on a new way the team will work together.
Huh, sounds fun.. So everyone got a say in who's leader? Thats good. :)

[Teh Ganon]

Huh, sounds fun.. So everyone got a say in who's leader? Thats good. :)

Your knowledge is limited in this. Really like you would have an idea right?

[Bastinka]

Yeah, really. Anyway.. keep working on your stuff, it might turn out to be OK. :)

EDIT: Done, did, and gone.

[ICEE]

heheh i thought m6deep was the leader until he left you

[Mass]

ok, I am on vacation but I have a connection and anyway, ganon doesn't have compete power at all. Me gots 73H V370 ;)

Yeah seriously it doesn't really mean too much except more organization.

[Jay2645]

Here's a video of Archive, starring Ganon and myself. I'm the red guy.
Filefront (Hi-Res):
http://files.filefront.com/UMT+Archivewmv/;8251523;;/fileinfo.html
Pooptube:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zdcK6L63oIs

[Teh Ganon]

Since then the BSP has been rather noticeably updated. And the UVW is being redone to look more align. Yes fire away at the smoothing groups... they need to be added as well.

[Pooky]

I'm a bit disappointed, the map is called 'Archive' but there's almost nothing to reflect that. It looks just like any other mysteriously pointless forerunner installation. Seems like a waste of an awesome name. It needs something like the glowing walls in the Library, which give off a darkly impersonal theme, such as an archive would have.

[Jay2645]

Ooh...
*Takes notes*
That just gave me an idea. I'll get on Xfire with you about it, Ganon, when it's ready.

[Mass]

Okay, bad news people, that is, unless you hate us or like finding ways to flame us, in which case, GREAT NEWS.

He got hacked, and now some old betas of archive, and some wierd projects of jay's got leaked and uploaded off jays hardrive. So, anyway I would personally like to request that either you don't download them to start with or when you do, you don't come here talking about all the bugs you found in archive or how retarded some map is. chances are if you find a bug it's either already been fixed or never going to be. Also, be warned that jay mods and shit for private pleasure, and he named a few things UMT cause its a beta version of our tag set or something. Whoever the ripper is they are incredibly lazy and is using the original file names.

I don't really know too much as I've been out of town, so all I say is if you see something UMT or whatever, don't check it out, be aware that we haven't released anything of yet, and unless you have a bug fetish I'd steer clear.


-Mass.


--- We don't know who did it, but it would seem to me its in a mutual interest to shut the guy down when we find out who did it. Help's appreciated.

[Bastinka]

I highly doubt he got hacked. No-one really gets hacked anymore, people don't really delete your C drive at all. Anyway, who would want to do that anyway?

I say lies.

[Jay2645]

I highly doubt he got hacked. No-one really gets hacked anymore, people don't really delete your C drive at all. Anyway, who would want to do that anyway?

I say lies.
I don't know who, or why, but they did. I don't have access to that computer right now, so I don't know if they did any other damage. I was clearing it out to put Vista on anyway, so they were all old stuff, including 2 canceled projects that were uploaded, UMT Snow Grove and UMT Swamp Grove. Swamp Grove has an old Spartan Laser in it, which at the time didn't work. :lol: Other then that and an old build of my ATV, there's not much of interest in either of the Groves, but if you want a bug infestation to see what could have been, go ahead and download them. The engineer bipeds are there to test the weapons I had in the map. The other things that got uploaded are 2 old Archive builds, so when you see UMT_Archive_Final on Halomaps, don't get your hopes up.

[SnaFuBAR]

so you're not making you're own stuff, you're modifying stuff in existance. wtg. :rolleyes:

[Jay2645]

so you're not making you're own stuff, you're modifying stuff in existance. wtg. :rolleyes:
You mean Snow Grove and Swamp Grove? Well, Snow Grove was canceled waaaaaay back, and then was replaced by Swamp Grove. It's a mod of Grove_Final by Arteen (Yes, I did ask for permission), which is the exact same map CMT modded for Snow Grove. So before you go off and say we're modifying stuff still in existence, so does CMT. Only map I can think of off-hand that's not a mod would be Tensity. Even the new SPV2 is a mod.
Next time, be sure to know exactly who might also be affected before you say anything, Situation normal all Fucked up Beyond All Reason.
P.S. Snow and Swamp Grove were both canceled because they've been done before, and Ganon wanted to make his own stuff, like Archive.

[SnaFuBAR]

nice, you're telling me stuff i already know. gj gj. please do, however, stay away from modifying what everyone else has done, because that's gay. and yes, i think cmt mods of existing maps are gay as well, nothing against you, specifically.

[Tweek]

ok, then perhaps you would like to suggest a better way for me to add new vertices to my cliffs without having to recreate them from scratch.:confused:Pretty much the nicest way to make cliffs turn out nice. :)

nononononononononono, if you don't know jack shit about something, don't give tips about it either. good chance you just wasted HOURS of his time. you'll not only look like an idiot to the people who do know, but you'll lose face when someone what does know point it out. like me, right now.

if you want some more polygons to work with in your cliffs, just use the Cut tool. start cutting at a vertex, then go to the middle of an edge, then go as fas as you need the cut to be, and end at another vertex.

then just reposition them as you see fit, moving the verts above the new ones you cut up a bit, to keep an even poly density.

also, tesselate IS a good way to add polygons, but the thing about that, is that you've got VERY little control over where it adds, and demands alot of cleaning up. tesselate works great when you're working with sub-D surfaces (wich i don't think anyone is) it's also good for when you need to add to a large area, or you'd be cutting for an hour.

also, modifying existing maps is lame.
unless you do it REALLY well, it'll just suck more.

hacked? lol, why the fuck would anyone want to hack you, and lift some shitty 3d models. i smell bullshit, and a big pile of it too.
it's what all the kids say when they're looking for a way out.

[Jay2645]

also, modifying existing maps is lame.
unless you do it REALLY well, it'll just suck more.
Exactly why we stopped working on it.



hacked? lol, why the fuck would anyone want to hack you, and lift some shitty 3d models. i smell bullshit, and a big pile of it too.
Like I said, I don't know. If I knew why, I would also know who, and then I could simply trace their IP and bring down their computer. But I know neither, so I can't answer that. That's like the idiot who broke into my house last year and took my PS2, but not my Xbox 360.

[Tweek]

more excuses :fail:

[Teh Ganon]

Oh boy I wake up and I already see jay and mass made a mess of things. He didnt get hacked idk why he is thinking that. We made a stupid mistake of sending each other files via filefront (while logged in). Some noob simply found them and decided to upload them to halomaps. It's completely our faults, but we learned a lesson and devised a way so that even if they are leaked they will not be uploaded. First off dennis tests the maps on slayer. We will disable that gametype in all betas. Also we will protect all of our betas. Perhaps even name the map something profane like fuck_you.map. If my assumptions are correct, the model of archive that was uploaded will not be accepted unless the uploader included pictures (as requested my halomaps upload rules). And I personally doubt that the uploader included readme's for the maps. Not sure if that is against any rules, however, it may mean the maps are invalid and wont be accepted. But, I think they will be accepted anyway. What we are going to try and do is upload the archive map with the same file names as the leaked one. This may do something to prevent the leaked archive from acceptance. But as far as snowgrove and swampgrove go there is nothing we can do. I'm not blaming this on anyone, as it was us that in fact leaked the maps on filefront in the first place. Won't happen again.

[p0lar_bear]

@ Community:
Who cares? Whatever actually did happen, their maps have been leaked. End of story.

@ Team:
People will play the leaks anyway. Just forget about 'em and move on, keep working on it to make it better. I mean, an old alpha build of H2CE's New Mombasa was leaked ages ago (whenhootersfly). We have NMC and H2NM. Does anyone play the leak? No. Why? Because there's a better, working version out.

[Jay2645]

Oh, Ganon, you're not on Xfire right now, so I can't explain that to you, but after you logged off, one of my personal maps (Without a UMT before it's name) was uploaded to Halomaps. Never was uploaded to Filefront, never went off of my computer at my dad's place.

Everyone else:
We've decided from now on our betas won't run on slayer (No spawn points set up). The final will, but since Dennis tests on Slayer, we won't have it run on it. With any luck, we can get Archive out today under the same name as one of the leaks and get it over with.

[Teh Ganon]

Jay I find that very farfetched still. Maybe it was your little brother. He almost got you banned from halomaps remember? And iv'e been on xfire alll day. unlike you i dont sleep very long.

[Jay2645]

Jay I find that very farfetched still. Maybe it was your little brother. He almost got you banned from halomaps remember? And iv'e been on xfire alll day. unlike you i dont sleep very long.
Heh... That little brother was at my mom's house.

[Mass]

nononononononononono, if you don't know jack shit about something, don't give tips about it either. good chance you just wasted HOURS of his time. you'll not only look like an idiot to the people who do know, but you'll lose face when someone what does know point it out. like me, right now.

if you want some more polygons to work with in your cliffs, just use the Cut tool. start cutting at a vertex, then go to the middle of an edge, then go as fas as you need the cut to be, and end at another vertex.

then just reposition them as you see fit, moving the verts above the new ones you cut up a bit, to keep an even poly density.

also, tesselate IS a good way to add polygons, but the thing about that, is that you've got VERY little control over where it adds, and demands alot of cleaning up. tesselate works great when you're working with sub-D surfaces (wich i don't think anyone is) it's also good for when you need to add to a large area, or you'd be cutting for an hour.

also, modifying existing maps is lame.
unless you do it REALLY well, it'll just suck more.

hacked? lol, why the fuck would anyone want to hack you, and lift some shitty 3d models. i smell bullshit, and a big pile of it too.
it's what all the kids say when they're looking for a way out.

OK, well thank you for the information, I will have to use it when I get back, taking a break from modeling is nice but I wanna get back. Thanks again, you're more help than wind....:eyesroll:

Also, I don't really know how they got up, just that they were leaked, and I'd like to think by some asshole/outsider.



shitty 3d models Oww. :(

[Tweek]

thats because i do this shit for a living.

[Mass]

Oh, cool, which developer?
I find that Max is extremely complicated, it seems to me that you can create the same thing 1000 different ways using different tools, and I haven't the slightest idea how to do anything beyond extremely basic animations...:embarrassed:

[Bastinka]

Thats your perspective of max.

I'm trying to get used to Maya, but Max has been with me for more than a year. I'm not such a good modeler, but if you don't like max try something else.

[Tweek]

max > maya.
also yes, you can make something a billion ways, it's just your job to find the fastest, and easiest way of doing it. once it's made, you dont have to make it AGAIN in a completely different way. you're done when it's done. unless it's fucking terrible, you you might want to try a different approach. max is intimidating at the start sure, max isn't just a modelling app. it has loads more than just modelling tools. rendering, reactor, particles, images, materials, animation, rigging, bones, Inverse Kinetics, all that stuff doesn't really have much to do with MODELLING. i've been doing this shit for over 12 years now, i know where stuff is, and edaxtly what it does and can do. just a matter of practice. i'm a fully self-taught 3d artist. i started out just be fucking around in max, and you know you dont want to see my first stuff.

as long as you dont post whatever you made here, like all the fucking retard noobs do, and then get pissed because they get flamed because they, in fact, suck 12 asses in 3 different timezones. keep yout shit to yourself, untill it's actually not something that will just get you laughed at for.

also, people who dont know what theyre doing, should shatap and don't give advices. they're teaching other people wrong things. like sometimes i see renders of stuff with the well known "black spots". all the noobs say "oh yeah thats because of smoothing" when 80&#37; of the case it's not. it's just morons sniffing eachothers asses, and copying eachothers moron-statements.

[Teh Ganon]

Strong words, Strong story, Nicely put.

[Mass]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I love max, and I don't find it daunting, its just that well... I think there are two main parts of modeling ability, the art, and the skill. I feel that I am better at the art than the skill and that when I hit some strange hot-key or open up the wrong modifier I have no idea what I'm dealing with. I actually enjoy figuring out what the easiest way to make something is, but all the same it is a fancy, complex program, with a heavily modifiable interface and thousands of features. Awesome, Yes. Easy, No.