View Full Version : Post your Dream PC
FRain
July 23rd, 2007, 11:48 PM
Well, the title says it.
Alienware or other Shiny/glowy cases.
ATI X2 series
NVidia 8 series
4 GB Ram *4096 MB*
500 watt power supply
nForce motherboard
LED keyboard
Razr Death Adder
What are yours?
Xetsuei
July 24th, 2007, 12:32 AM
Well, not much to add D:
CM Stacker 830 case
Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6850
eVGA nForce 680i The Black Pearl
2x eVGA GeForce 8800Ultra
4x DDR2 800 2GB ram(8GB total)
4x 160GB Raptor in RAID0
Blu-ray Burner
HD-DVD Burner
Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite
Some sort of HDMI capture card
1200WATT PSU
2x 30' 2560x1600 monitors
Logitech G5 gaming mouse
Logitech G15 gaming keyboard
Logitech 7.1 Surround sound system
and an awesome water cooling system w/ APOGEE GTX cpu cooler and two swiftech stealths for the 8800's
...that's pretty much it.
Atty
July 24th, 2007, 12:58 AM
My dream PC would be completely engineered by myself. Everything done by me so it could honestly be a custom PC. :)
alby
July 24th, 2007, 01:15 AM
Xetsuei™;107367']and an awesome water cooling system w/ APOGEE GTX cpu cooler and two swiftech stealths for the 8800's
If your gonna get water cooling for the 8800's then just buy the 8800 ultra black pearl instead of normal ultras.
The Tesla (http://www.nvidia.com/object/tesla_computing_solutions.html) would be my dream PC(with a decent sound card).
thehoodedsmack
July 24th, 2007, 12:09 PM
One that will be my friend... :(
Probably anything with 2 gigs or RAM, and about a TB of Hard Drive space (I saw those down at my local Futureshop. I was like WTF?!? 1 TB?!?! Awwww Yeah...)
Archon23
July 24th, 2007, 12:23 PM
Ive seen 2 TB Hardrives on Sale on Ebay.
My dream PC would come from the technologically advanced future. Using a Delorean of course.
Sec
July 24th, 2007, 01:08 PM
thermaltake shark ATX case
nvidia 8800GTS 740MB quad SLI
the latest nvidia motherobard
4GB dual channel RAM
1TB hard drive space [4x250gb weston digital]
silent fan cooling system [wouldnt touch a water cooling system if i were paid...]
intel core 2 duo quad core 2.8GHZ
980W PSU [i realise probably hard to find but if need be could make one my self]
32" plasma screen
Xetsuei
July 24th, 2007, 01:19 PM
If your gonna get water cooling for the 8800's then just buy the 8800 ultra black pearl instead of normal ultras.
The Tesla (http://www.nvidia.com/object/tesla_computing_solutions.html) would be my dream PC(with a decent sound card).
Swiftech Stealth > Dangerden 8800 Waterblock
thermaltake shark ATX case
nvidia 8800GTS 740MB quad SLI
the latest nvidia motherobard
4GB dual channel RAM
1TB hard drive space [4x250gb weston digital]
silent fan cooling system [wouldnt touch a water cooling system if i were paid...]
intel core 2 duo quad core 2.8GHZ
980W PSU [i realise probably hard to find but if need be could make one my self]
32" plasma screen
Alot of the choices are stupid, like "wouldnt touch a water cooling system if i were paid," and 32" plasma screen.
Atty
July 24th, 2007, 01:23 PM
His entire selection is terrible, what a waste of a dream.
Xetsuei
July 24th, 2007, 01:25 PM
Hahahaha
Sec
July 24th, 2007, 01:28 PM
it was a mere selection of components i didnt ask for any critizism on my selection.
i wouldnt touch a water cooling system from a techincal stand point seeing as ive studied for nearly 3 years on computer engineering if i was really all that bothered i would have just gone to a local website such as newegg.com or dabs.com and looked up.
i appreciate your opinion but please keep them to yourself.
[edit]
heres a proper list if you really must be malicous:
4xHitachi Deskstar 7K500 500GB
dual SLI nvidia 8800 GDDR3 768mb
2xcorsair 1GB 240pin DIMM
Intel Core 2 Quad Extreme 2.66ghz
Asustek S775 nForce 680i ATX motherboard
antec neo HE ATX 500W PSU
thermaltake shark ATX case
2x Akasa Exhaust System Blower[case cooling]
32"plsma TV DVI input [using a DVI output port on the nvidia 8800GTS]
There happy?
Xetsuei
July 24th, 2007, 01:30 PM
We don't care if you didn't ask for criticism. From a technical stand point? LOL.
Sec
July 24th, 2007, 01:40 PM
Xetsuei™;107713']We don't care if you didn't ask for criticism. From a technical stand point? LOL.
laugh all you like i wouldnt mess with water cooling inside a system running with electronic sensitive equipment.
mech
July 24th, 2007, 01:41 PM
:suicide:
I'd want god's pc, everything is ∞
Xetsuei
July 24th, 2007, 02:20 PM
laugh all you like i wouldnt mess with water cooling inside a system running with electronic sensitive equipment.
You aren't to smart are you?
Sec
July 24th, 2007, 02:26 PM
Xetsuei™;107742']You aren't to smart are you?
Yes i am actualy , may i suggest if you wish to continue your attempted insults may i suggest you carry on via the private messaging way.
i dont particulary wish for a mere misunderstanding on your part to carry on derailing this topic.
leorimolo
July 24th, 2007, 02:27 PM
I would pay a big company to make me a motherboard that has 2 CPU 775 brackets, then
2x Quad core Core 2 Duo = 8 very efficent cores
4x Quad SLI 8800 nvidia
4x iof these http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/19/ocz-intros-1800mhz-ddr3-ram-modules/
1x HDMI capture card
1x Aegia PhysicsX
2x terabyte Drives
1x really good sound card
3x 22inch Dell moniters
1x Case With liquid nitrogen cooling
1x Bluray/hd dvd combo
Thats my dream PC
Atty
July 24th, 2007, 02:29 PM
Three 22'' monitors? What the fuck?
Do you all need a crash course in how to dream properly? For fucks sake, you are all pathetic. Learn to dream properly.
Sec
July 24th, 2007, 02:31 PM
Three 22'' monitors? What the fuck?
Do you all need a crash course in how to dream properly? For fucks sake, you are all pathetic. Learn to dream properly.
your idea of a dream is yours please dont try to enforce your point of veiws onto others.
Atty
July 24th, 2007, 02:40 PM
My opinion is considered fact, don't try and think otherwise. :downs:
Anyways, I guess I should list a dream PC:
Completely custom case built into a custom desk, designed for three monitors and engineered for performance based on the specific components in my PC.
45nm Based Core 2 Quad @ 4.6GHz (Or Higher)
Completely custom built N2 cooling system, possibly carbon nanotube technology as well.
2 9800Ultra's in SLI
nVidia 780i The Black Diamond eVGA Motherboard :downs:
1TB HD Space connected to home Mutlimedia server (10TB) sharing multimedia with all TVs/Sound Systems/etc in house.
HDMI Capture Card (can't think of it's name atm)
X-Fi Based sound card and or any other leading sound technology
5.1 z5500 Speaker system set up in perfect order around the room
8GB of DDR2 1250 Dominator RAM
Sennheiser HD555/595/680 Headphones for all my musical tastes and CS:S needs
5 DVD-R/RW Drives and an HD-DVD/BD Drive
Two 30'' Monitors, one 24'' Monitor (strictly for gaming and video), and also a Pioneer Elite Plasma or Samsung LED LCD TV
45Gigabit Internet Connection
Logitech G15 (already got that B) ) and custom built mouse to meet the highest gaming specifications and also custom fit to my own unique hands
Full Audio recording system connected to PC (for my Guitar and Pianno)
PC Power and Cooling 2kw PSU with a 10kw UPS backup
And yeah, that about sums it up. :)
Sec
July 24th, 2007, 03:04 PM
:suicide:
I'd want god's pc, everything is ∞
∞ viruses and trojans?
lol.
0m3g4Muff1n987
July 24th, 2007, 03:14 PM
For some of you realistic people, I found a PC that might actually come close to your dream http://cgi.ebay.com/Custom-Quad-Core-PC-with-8-Gb-of-DDR2-500-Gb-HDD-NR_W0QQitemZ110150762712QQihZ001QQcategoryZ140075Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
klange
July 24th, 2007, 04:47 PM
∞ viruses and trojans?
lol.
God's PC runs Linux, it has no viruses or trojans.
OmegaDragon
July 24th, 2007, 05:02 PM
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8932/oocopycr7.jpg
It has to be that price or lower.
InnerGoat
July 24th, 2007, 05:24 PM
God's PC runs Linux, it has no viruses or trojans.
Or games. :awesome:
klange
July 24th, 2007, 05:38 PM
Something I'd actually consider saving up for:
Price* | Link | My comments
$150 nVidia 680i SLI (http://www.nvidia.com/object/designed_by_nvidia_680i_sli.html) (The price on a motherboard like this amazes me. I should just buy the thing for the hell of it)
$300 Intel Core 2 Quad (http://www.intel.com/buy/desktop/boxed-processor/embedded.htm?sSKU=BX80562Q6600&fmlid=2) (Why pay almost twice as much for so little more? Screw the extreme [$300 on Buy.com, listed on Intel's site])
$580 GeForce 8800 Ultra (http://www.nvidia.com/page/geforce_8800.html) (#1)
$580 GeForce 8800 Ultra (http://www.nvidia.com/page/geforce_8800.html) (#2)
$400 Seagate Barracuda® 7200.11 (http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?locale=en-US&name=barracuda-7200-11-sata-3-0-gb/s-1-tb-hard-drive-st31000340as&vgnextoid=0732f141e7f43110VgnVCM100000f5ee0a0aRCRD&vgnextchannel=47f281f8c0f43110VgnVCM100000f5ee0a0a RCRD&reqPage=Model) (1tb, single drive)
$70 Raidmax Aurora 580 (http://buyraidmax.com/product.php?pid=125) (because I already have it and it's a dual-rail 12v)
$140 Kingston 2x1gb DDR2-800 (http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/KHX6400D2LLK2_2GN.pdf) (meh, if you have any better suggestions for DDR2-800, let me know)
$140 Asus Vento 3600 (http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=7&l2=37&l3=142&l4=0&model=379&modelmenu=1) Color undecided.
$550 Philips Blu-Ray reader and Triple Writer (http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=169689&WT.mc_n=4&WT.mc_t=U&cm_ven=COMPARISON%20SHOPPING&cm_cat=GOOGLE&cm_pla=DATAFEED-%3EPRODUCTS&cm_ite=1%20PRODUCT&cm_keycode=4)
$240 Swiftech H2O-220 Apex Ultra Water Cooling Kit (http://www.xoxide.com/swiftech-h2o-apex-ultra-extreme.html)
Current total: $3,150
* Averaged lows
jahrain
July 24th, 2007, 05:38 PM
Or games. :awesome:
My GF plays WoW, BF2142, and Oblivion pretty much flawlessly on her laptop running Ubuntu 7.0.4 with cedega.
Anyways, my dream PC will have a holographic 3d display.
klange
July 24th, 2007, 05:45 PM
Or games. :awesome:
Quake 4, Doom III, plus the above.
'nuf said.
Xetsuei
July 24th, 2007, 08:45 PM
Yes i am actualy , may i suggest if you wish to continue your attempted insults may i suggest you carry on via the private messaging way.
i dont particulary wish for a mere misunderstanding on your part to carry on derailing this topic.
From the way you call everything like, "Intel Core 2 Quad Extreme," it doesn't sound like it.
legionaire45
July 24th, 2007, 09:17 PM
Something I'd actually consider saving up for:
nVidia 680i SLI (http://www.nvidia.com/object/designed_by_nvidia_680i_sli.html) (The price on a motherboard like this amazes me. I should just buy the thing for the hell of it)
The reason the board is so expensive is because the chipset itself is expensive. The additional cooling required also adds to the cost and all the extra stuff tacked on too. If you think a $200 680i board is expensive then you must not have seen the Striker or the DFI 680i LT board that overclocks incedibly well. With price comes quality.
Intel Core 2 Quad (http://www.intel.com/buy/desktop/boxed-processor/embedded.htm?sSKU=BX80562Q6600&fmlid=2) (Why pay almost twice as much for so little more? Screw the extreme)
Because it has an unlocked multiplier, aka you can overclock it to hell and back if you want. Also for people who don't overclock, every little bit of extra speed helps.
GeForce 8800 Ultra (http://www.nvidia.com/page/geforce_8800.html) (#1)
GeForce 8800 Ultra (http://www.nvidia.com/page/geforce_8800.html) (#2)
Wait...so you just griped about "paying twice as much for so little more" and then proceed to select 2 8800 Ultras when they are more or less overclocked GTXs?
Seagate Barracuda® 7200.11 (http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?locale=en-US&name=barracuda-7200-11-sata-3-0-gb/s-1-tb-hard-drive-st31000340as&vgnextoid=0732f141e7f43110VgnVCM100000f5ee0a0aRCRD&vgnextchannel=47f281f8c0f43110VgnVCM100000f5ee0a0a RCRD&reqPage=Model) (1tb, single drive)
Raidmax Aurora 580 (http://buyraidmax.com/product.php?pid=125) (because I already have it and it's a dual-rail 12v)
This is a dream components thread, not a "post what I have" thread. 580 watts? Only 2 rails? Snore.
Kingston 2x1gb DDR2-800 (http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/KHX6400D2LLK2_2GN.pdf) (meh, if you have any better suggestions for DDR2-800, let me know)
Fuck DDR2-800, go for some OCZ DDR3 at PC3-14400 speeds (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=41099) and a board that will utilize it.
Still looking for a worth-the-money DVD+-R and cooling system, I'll edit this post later...
Here I come for you. Bam! (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,2139095,00.asp) and Bam! (http://www.crazypc.com/products/h2o-120_premium-9378.html)
FACE MACHINED!
And for those pussies out there afraid of watercooling, I've literally had water running over my video card while it was on and it's fine. I've run watercooling for almost 2 years now and the worst that happened was my dumbfuck brother not correctly mounting a waterblock on a GPU and fucking it up, and that didn't even relate to "water cooling inside a system running with electronic sensitive equipment" frying my component. Especially considering I am running Distilled water with with a non-conductive antifreeze/fungicide, I think the worst that could happen is a leak springing and me somehow beind completely clueless and not noticing it, allowing water to pool up on a PC and deforming it. Not going to happen btw.
As for me, I'd get the usual assortment of binned-CPUs/GPUs, probably I would go for a Dual Quad Core Intel V8 Platform motherboard with an X38 chipset for SLI sex and dual Xeons/C2E QX6850s. Dual watercooled 8800 Ultras (since I'm not being frugal).
I'd probably build my case from the ground up, have the parts laser cut, etc. It would be sexy and expensive, probably would use an Aluminum frame to keep the weight down with a stainless steel/copper exterior to be uber sexy. It would be designed to support watercooling to it's fullest, with ample space for dual 120.3 or 120.4 radiators, one for each side of my TEC cooling loop. I'd get myself one of these (http://www.elx.com.au/item/ELS0009) (except longer mb) and position my sound card in it's own separate internal enclosure that is as free of EM radiation as possible via shielding. I'd replace the Op-amps on the XFI so that it would sound uber sexy as well. My monitors would be a set of 3 19" monitors as well as a Matrox TripleHeadToGo for the sake of being simple. No need to have 3 30" Cinema Displays when most games won't be able to take advantage of it xD.
8 gigs of ram, a 2 kW PSU, the other usual Dream PC components. 2 or so Raptors in Raid as boot drives, 4 or so Baracuda 7200.11s, etc. Nothing special there.
But more importantly, my 2lb bag of random Asus accessories (http://www.petrastechshop.com/asacgrbag2lb.html) came in today ^____^. I got an SLI bridge, a firewire and USB breakout bracket, a 680i Northbridge fan for a Striker/other high end board, a lb or so of DVI --> VGA adapters and about 10-15 SATA/4 pin Molex ---> SATA Power cables. <3.
klange
July 25th, 2007, 11:02 AM
There are so many things wrong with that post...
The first comment was not "wow, this is expensive", it was "as a noob to hardware, motherboards only cost this much?"
Second, all of the rest involves the fact that maybe, just maybe, my dream is somewhat in the realm of reality. Hell, My "dream PC" could be some random beige box with crap from the 90's in it.
Moving on, the Ultra's may just be "overclocked GTXs", but they don't cost twice as much (Unless you've found a GTX for $300, in which case, please guide me in my search), and when I'm looking to get two cards in this dream of mine, the difference in price really doesn't matter any more.
Again, my dream may involve using pretty good stuff that I already have. It's my dream.
Last comment, yeah, it be great to get some top-end DDR3 RAM, but my dream involves purchasing an nVidia board, the best of which only supports up to DDR2-800.
You want my real dream PC? I'll be back in 24 hours, I'm off to find the greatest hardware to ever not yet be released...
Cortexian
July 25th, 2007, 03:41 PM
My current computer, plus another 8800 GTX, another 500-1000GB hard drive, a multireader, another DVD Burner, an Intel Q6700, and an awesome super quite phase changing cooler :)
TeeKup
July 25th, 2007, 07:06 PM
Tower
http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?pfp=BROWSE&N=200005&product_code=343944
Monitor
http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?pfp=cat3&product_code=346008
Keyboard
http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?pfp=BROWSE&search=Keyboard&N=200076&search_redir=1&product_code=333022
Mouse
http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?pfp=BROWSE&search=Mouse&N=200077&search_redir=1&product_code=50590892
That's pretty much on my 'to buy' list, Perhaps I'll have it by the end of the year.
Xetsuei
July 25th, 2007, 08:35 PM
Eww Pentium D. Horrible dream.
FRain
July 26th, 2007, 01:57 AM
My dream pc updated:
nVidia Asus motherboard
8 GB SO DIMM RAM
nVidia 9800 GTX PCI-E
HHDWDDBVD burner
MP48 listener
Card Reader on front
Glowy/Shiny case and anything that I missed that was on my first post.
Xetsuei
July 26th, 2007, 02:30 AM
Xetsuei™;107367']Well, not much to add D:
CM Stacker 830 case
Intel Quad Core Penryn processor
eVGA nForce 680i The Black Pearl
2x eVGA GeForce 9800GTX
4x DDR2 800 2GB ram(8GB total)
4x 160GB Raptor in RAID0
Blu-ray Burner
HD-DVD Burner
Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite
Some sort of HDMI capture card
1200WATT PSU
2x 30" 2560x1600 monitors + 2 20.1" 1680x1050 monitors
Logitech G5 gaming mouse
Logitech G15 gaming keyboard
Logitech 7.1 Surround sound system
and an awesome water cooling system w/ APOGEE GTX cpu cooler
...that's pretty much it.
:updated:
MetKiller Joe
July 27th, 2007, 02:33 PM
Motherboard:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASUS P5N32-E SLI LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard – OEM
$142.99 NewEgg
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CPU:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz 2 x 4MB L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor – Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017)
$53 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017)2.00 Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017)
Month later: (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017)
$375.00 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017)
RAM: (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017)
Patriot eXtreme Performance 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory
($214.99 after $30.00 Mail-In Rebate (http://images10.newegg.com/uploadfilesfornewegg/rebate/SH/Patriot8MIRsJul11Jul3107ll97.pdf))
Graphics Cards: (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017)
EVGA 768-P2-N831-AR GeForce 8800GTX 768MB 384-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card – Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130072)X2 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130072)
$1059.98 (rebated) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017)
Month Later: (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017)
$973.98 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017)
Monitor: (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017)
Hanns·G JC-199DPB Black 19" 8ms DVI LCD Monitor – Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824254009)
$159.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824254009)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drives: (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SAMSUNG SpinPoint T Series HD501LJ 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152052)
$109.99
PSU:
Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W ATX
http://www.directron.com/w0132ru.html
$319.99
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Case: (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017)
Thermaltake Armor VA8000SWA (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811103012)
$179.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811103012)
Cooling: (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811103012)
KOOLANCE EX2-750BK Liquid Cooling System - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835127006) (newegg) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811103012) $249.99
Swiftech APOGEE CPU Cooling Water-Block – Retail
$48.99
VID-282 (GeForce 8800GTX) X2
$185.98
Dual VID Connect Nozzle, 3 Slot Spacing (http://www.koolance.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=401) X2
23.98
Total (not including cooling):
$2651.91
Month Later (including cooling):
$2730.87
w/o:
2221.92
I'm planning to buy this around January when all of it reaches a total of about 1K or more.
btw, I added some stuff and didn't do the total. So, its innaccurate by a couple hundred at least.
Xetsuei
July 27th, 2007, 03:45 PM
Don't get a koolance water cooling system, or anything koolance, get a swiftech. For the 8800's, get a swiftech stealth.
MetKiller Joe
July 27th, 2007, 07:10 PM
Could you give me a reason?
Cortexian
July 27th, 2007, 07:35 PM
Could you give me a reason?
Swiftech > Koolance.
Limited
July 27th, 2007, 07:47 PM
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/pcrange.html?ANN
One on the right.
MetKiller Joe
July 27th, 2007, 09:52 PM
Swiftech > Koolance.
OK, thanks. I have that info. Could you give me facts? Dimensions, even? Its a couple of hundred of bucks I'm not just going to buy swiftech because "swiftech > koolance".
I'm not saying you are wrong, but please, back up your claim.
Xetsuei
July 27th, 2007, 11:54 PM
Koolance's waterblocks/cooling kits are just all around horrible. Especially the fact that they use aluminum in their radiators instead of copper.
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