An example of what's to come...

[Choking Victim]

Well, as some of you know, me and shadowspartan have been hard at work getting script extraction perfected, and i'm happy to say, it pretty much is.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v61/ShadowChris/extractor.jpg

Every singleplayer map is extracting, compiling, and playing perfectly. Now for those of you that don't see how this is significant, it enables us to do things like this. (http://useruploads.mythica.org/view/b40_boarding.wmv.html) These scripts will be released once zteams campaign is released, but until then i thought i would just clue you all in on whats been going on. Soldier of Lite deserves a huge round of applause for this, his tutorial for halo 2 xbox scripts basically set a foundation for us to learn and apply to halo 1.

[Teh Ganon]

Thats a pretty major step for the community, nice job +Rep

[ShadowSpartan]

Thats a pretty major step for the community, nice job +Rep
I know you wanna give me some rep too :cool:.

[DeepFrz]

Wow, nice work Zteam. I cant wait for the SP release along with PB3

[Con]

Awesome job, both of you guys. +rep

[Reaper Man]

Poor choice of abbreviation :smith:

[Zeph]

I'm sorry, but how does script extraction allow you to include ghost boarding? You can just add the ghost boarding scripts, along with any other new script that doesn't conflict with existing ones, and have it all work fine. Extracting scripts would allow you to make new cinematics for the existing campaign, yet you dont mention it? Are you sure you're talking about the right thing?

[Ki11a_FTW]

nice!

hehehe i beet you with the boarding :-D

[adumass]

This is great, now all we need is the ability to make recorded animations. I wonder is cmt gonna use this?

[Con]

I'm sorry, but how does script extraction allow you to include ghost boarding? You can just add the ghost boarding scripts, along with any other new script that doesn't conflict with existing ones, and have it all work fine. Extracting scripts would allow you to make new cinematics for the existing campaign, yet you dont mention it? Are you sure you're talking about the right thing?
oh? you can compile scripts into a campaign level and it wont overwrite the old scripts already in the level?

[FRain]

^ Damnit, connor, you beat me to it.

[Choking Victim]

:rolleyes: title changerers...methinks its kornman. And yea zeph you can't compile new scripts into a map without overwriting the old ones, unless of course you have the source scripts. BTW this is shadowspartans first program and he doesn't even know how to script...ohh the irony :p major props to him for programming all our research.

[Love De Lux]

Pretty neat. :)

( can't rep you :smith: )

[DeepFrz]

Is that the only way u can board, or can you board from the side also?
Cause the enemy could easily just run over you.

[MNC]

Wow, nice. Be sure to release some bungie scripts though. Just B30 or A10 or something ;)

[ShadowSpartan]

Wow, nice. Be sure to release some bungie scripts though. Just B30 or A10 or something ;)
As soon as Zteam's campaign is released, we will release the source scripts to all campaign maps.

[supersniper]

Oh I thought you were releasing the App. That makes sense now because I remember earlier that the app was private use only. Lol

[nooBBooze]

so that means zteam could implement boarding and other script related stuff in their campaign?

[}_50Æ{_|ñeا†«O]

Isn't it supposed to be spelled... uh.... nevermind..

[ShadowSpartan]

so that means zteamcould implement boarrding and other script related stuff in their campaign?
Yes that is exactly what it means.

[LlamaMaster]

Dude, I love you. I don't have a use for this right now but I might later. Epic! :):):):):)

[Zeph]

As soon as Zteam's campaign is released, we will release the source scripts to all campaign maps.

O_o
No, I take that emotiface back, as you've clearly never utilized the scripts field in guerilla.


:rolleyes: title changerers...methinks its kornman. And yea zeph you can't compile new scripts into a map without overwriting the old ones, unless of course you have the source scripts. BTW this is shadowspartans first program and he doesn't even know how to script...ohh the irony :p major props to him for programming all our research.

I've done it before. You can too.

[CtrlAltDestroy]

Really, how.

[Zeph]

:rolleyes: title changerers...methinks its kornman. And yea zeph you can't compile new scripts into a map without overwriting the old ones, unless of course you have the source scripts. BTW this is shadowspartans first program and he doesn't even know how to script...ohh the irony :p major props to him for programming all our research.

No, this is the way the thread's title originated as.

[Choking Victim]

So zeph, you can magically do something cmt's been trying to figure out ever since their campaign mod started? tell me, how?

[CtrlAltDestroy]

you've clearly never utilized the scripts field in guerilla.

I have; and it's useless.

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/4350/mhmmxb2.png

[Zeph]

Really, how.
I made a new script in guerilla, named it properly, gave it all the proper booleans, made sure it was named the same way in the respective folder, opened the scenario in Hobo, and compiled the script into the scenario.

[CtrlAltDestroy]

The problem with that is, when sapien/ahobo compiles scripts it clears out all existing scripts in the scenario and recompiles only the ones in the source files.

[Choking Victim]

I made a new script in guerilla, named it properly, gave it all the proper booleans, made sure it was named the same way in the respective folder, opened the scenario in Hobo, and compiled the script into the scenario.
that is utterly useless, they still get overwritten

EDIT: tried it, didn't work.

[Zeph]

Worked for me. I had a problem of forgetting to delete a new script if I change it and recompile. Before I knew about it, I'd change the script in text form, recompile it through sapien, compile the map, test, see it's still broken, recompile through sapien and try again. I checked guerrilla to see if it was actually getting compiled and I found multiple versions of the same script mixed in with the already existing ones. Once I deleted all my new ones and recompiled with the updated ones it worked fine. I'm not sure what I did different, but that's what happened.

edit: Thinking about it more, the only thing I could think of that would be different for me over you guys was Korn gave me a copy of the uncompiled global scripts for the SP maps way back when. Perhaps that was the missing key?
edit more specifically: I mean perhaps Sapien was written to detect that file and decide whether it would overwrite existing scripts or not? No real clue, but I've seen some crazy stuff, so it wouldn't surprise me.

[et_cg]

edit: Thinking about it more, the only thing I could think of that would be different for me over you guys was Korn gave me a copy of the uncompiled global scripts for the SP maps way back when. Perhaps that was the missing key?
edit more specifically: I mean perhaps Sapien was written to detect that file and decide whether it would overwrite existing scripts or not? No real clue, but I've seen some crazy stuff, so it wouldn't surprise me.

Well you're just a lucky little cookie.

[p0lar_bear]

That's probably because you have the source files built into the scenario; hhen you compile a script, a copy of the source script(s) are saved into the scenario. When the scenario is compiled into a map, the source file copies are dropped, obviously to save space.

Since an extracted a10.scenario has no source file in it, compiling a new script will dump whatever script syntax data is in there. Try it.

[DaneO'Roo]

wow, this is fucking awesome.

I think XCE is going to make GREAT use of this ;D

[MNC]

You sure you guys couldn't give me just 1 map's script? Pretty please? \:awesome:/ It'd clear up some singleplayer stuff for me.
Or just device_power scripts and stuff. I can't get it to work.

On a more serious note; This wasn't going to be released, right? So no-one can get into scripts you made yourself for certain stuff is discovered.

[FRain]

Like I said in the Server 3 thread, Awesome-O.

[ShadowSpartan]

You sure you guys couldn't give me just 1 map's script? Pretty please? \:awesome:/ It'd clear up some singleplayer stuff for me.
Or just device_power scripts and stuff. I can't get it to work.

On a more serious note; This wasn't going to be released, right? So no-one can get into scripts you made yourself for certain stuff is discovered.
The only map I have seen device_get_power and device_set_power in is H2CE Zanzibar. Which I don't think would be good to give out.

As I said before, we won't be releasing the program, only the SP scripts.

[MNC]

So Bungie didn't use it for their doors in Singleplayer?

[et_cg]

So Bungie didn't use it for their doors in Singleplayer?

The doors in Single Player are just device machinery. And since it doesn't need to sync over a network, it doesn't need any special code written for it.

[MNC]

Then please tell me, after having tried several ways of activating a door with a control, how do I go on doing that? I've got a door, I've got a control, both in the same power group and position group.

[Limited]

Nice, however I would like to comment about the program.

When it says Script Node Offset and the other text boxes below, does the program specify them, or do we have to work them out? Because there hasnt been any file offsets for CE released.

[CtrlAltDestroy]

You find them yourself. (Not hard once you know how)

[Limited]

Finding the preset offsets in CE SP maps? Right

Not saying it wont work, but have you extracted a script using it and was it easy?

[CtrlAltDestroy]

Uh, I've done it several times with ease. Don't speak unless you know what you're talking about.

EDIT: It hardly matters in the end; the program isn't going to be released.

[ShadowSpartan]

Finding the preset offsets in CE SP maps? Right

Not saying it wont work, but have you extracted a script using it and was it easy?
Yes we have extracted scripts using that....that is how we get the SP source scripts. It is very easy to do once you know how to do it. And as CAD said, you don't have to worry about it anyway as the program is not being released, only the SP scripts.

[Kornman00]

It isn't that hard to programmically get those offsets...

[ShadowSpartan]

It isn't that hard to programmically get those offsets...
Well this is my first big program and I really don't know how I would get them automatically.

[CtrlAltDestroy]

I hate to bump a thread, but I'd like to show you what else I was able to accomplish with script extraction...

kQInUtQepPA

[Archon23]

I see you got ghosts in the Silent Cartographer.......

I wanted Blue explosions though >_>.

[CtrlAltDestroy]

Those are default ghosts. <_<

[teh lag]

It's a compile on default b30, just looking at what can be done with script in SP.

[Huero]

Is it possible to make it so that you can switch guns with allies? If not, that's fine. Just curious.

[CtrlAltDestroy]

Not in a practical way, no...

[Huero]

Alright, but uh...
What else can this program do besides boarding?

[p0lar_bear]

Alright, but uh...
What else can this program do besides boarding?

This program which will be unreleased to the public doesn't "do boarding" at all. It decrypts the compiled script data in a scenario tag, spitting out an HSC file. This allows you to add various things to the stock maps, such as additional encounters, as CAD just demonstrated.

The scripts for Bungie's Halo campaign will be released to the public, but not the program itself, as stated before by the creator of the app, as people have wanted a program like this for simply that purpose; to see how Bungie did it, so one can emulate those methods and do it themselves.

[StankBacon]

This program which will be unreleased to the public doesn't "do boarding" at all. It decrypts the compiled script data in a scenario tag, spitting out an HSC file. This allows you to add various things to the stock maps, such as additional encounters, as CAD just demonstrated.

The scripts for Bungie's Halo campaign will be released to the public, but not the program itself, as stated before by the creator of the app, as people have wanted a program like this for simply that purpose; to see how Bungie did it, so one can emulate those methods and do it themselves.

just wondering as to why the app will not be released but the scripts will....

doesnt make any sence really.

[CtrlAltDestroy]

Remember what happened with HEK+...

Yeah.

[StankBacon]

no?


oh, you mean everyone freaking out about nothing...

[CtrlAltDestroy]

Exactly.

[StankBacon]

pretty much every map that has any worth while scripting is protected anyway....

meh.

id still love to see the campaign scripts... give them to me :O

[CtrlAltDestroy]

It extracts scripts from protected maps as well...

[Huero]

This program which will be unreleased to the public doesn't "do boarding" at all. It decrypts the compiled script data in a scenario tag, spitting out an HSC file. This allows you to add various things to the stock maps, such as additional encounters, as CAD just demonstrated.

The scripts for Bungie's Halo campaign will be released to the public, but not the program itself, as stated before by the creator of the app, as people have wanted a program like this for simply that purpose; to see how Bungie did it, so one can emulate those methods and do it themselves.
For one, I wasn't interested in acquiring the program.
Two, don't get offended, it was a simple question by someone who doesn't understand the technical side of it. I get it now.

[StankBacon]

It extracts scripts from protected maps as well...

:eek: hacker.

[ICEE]

just dont release it then. hold true to that and dont let it be leaked... it sounds like a powerful tool

[p0lar_bear]

For one, I wasn't interested in acquiring the program.
Two, don't get offended, it was a simple question by someone who doesn't understand the technical side of it. I get it now.

I wasn't offended, actually. I was just stressing the point for other readers who are... well... :downs:

[Pooky]

I hate to bump a thread, but I'd like to show you what else I was able to accomplish with script extraction...

kQInUtQepPA

lol, I saw you reflexively leading in that video

[ShadowSpartan]

:eek: hacker.
When steelix created the map protector I really don't think he was interested in protecting the scripts, just the tags. If you go around and edit stuff in the script data, it will either corrupt the map, or if the map even loads, the scripts would be screwed up and the map would not play as normal. So yea, the script data remains intact even if you protect the map.

[p0lar_bear]

When steelix created the map protector I really don't think he was interested in protecting the scripts, just the tags. If you go around and edit stuff in the script data, it will either corrupt the map, or if the map even loads, the scripts would be screwed up and the map would not play as normal. So yea, the script data remains intact even if you protect the map.
The protection scrambles up names and tag types, and that's it. Data actually remains untouched.

[ShadowSpartan]

The protection scrambles up names and tag types, and that's it. Data actually remains untouched.
I know that, I have researched into map protection before. I was just saying that steelix would not have messed with protecting scripts as HEK+ can't extract them and only a handful of people have a program that can do it.

[t3h m00kz]

Good job, oh my god +rep

[Apoc4lypse]

just dont release it then. hold true to that and dont let it be leaked... it sounds like a powerful tool

oh teh noes, dont let the script extractor get released, I mean the world might end when people are able to see how someone arranged a bunch of scripting commands in a map...

really tbh ur being silly, either release the sp scripts, and be on your way, or release the application... otherwise, ur just dragging this out, were at like page 8 now or what? Why didnt u release the sp scripts yet, this threads been goin on for a while now.

Either releas em or don't, save us from the other stuff, we don't need videos proving you can compile new scripts into SP, just show us the sp scripts mb to prove it? I hate being teased.

Or whats the catch right now that you never mentioned which is keeping you from release?

And again, dont see what would be so bad if the app were released, affraid of people stealing scripts now?

:lol: its the same ol same ol around here, zomgz leaks and omgfg he ripped lets point fingers cuz its fun and then set em on fire.

Really... lol just my 2 cents. People figure somthing out and the first thing there quick to point out is, no release or no public information alloud... what good is knowledge when you keep it to your self, example, I figured out how to ascend to heaven when ever I want, but I'm not gonna tell anyone, cuz I'd rather be the only one able to do it.

w/e :XD:

[fatso784]

I'm sorry, I don't normally complain, but that's s***. It's selfish to hold back a vital tool that could be of real use to someone (like me) that's making their own sp levels, just so your own map team can get an upper hand on everyone else. When Z-Team campaign is released, if that script tool isn't out, don't be bragging about how good the campaign is. I don't give a crap how good it is. The fact is, you can't hold the entire halo community back so your sp level looks and runs way better than everyone elses. It's the most sleazy, lowest thing you could do in the halo community. This isn't a competition.

PLEASE, Z-Team, release this tool - it is vital to the progress of the entire Halo CE community.

[Archon23]

Uh did you miss the part that they said they would release the scripts just not the program?

[CtrlAltDestroy]

We're releasing the SP scripts; which is the only thing you really need. Otherwise, people would just be ripping CE map scripts left and right without consent of the original authors. Just look what happened with HEK+... Furthermore, there is no way to protect scripts as there is with tags. (Which isn't very effective in the first place).

To sum it up, the original campaign scripts WILL be released. The tool however, will not. End of story.

[ShadowSpartan]

Apoc4lypse, as n00b1n8R stated, I created the application so that Zteam could be the first to add new script related stuff to the campaign and I have said that before if you would actually read people's previous posts. I don't plan on releasing the actual program because then scripts that people worked hard on, would be given out. The single player source scripts will not be released until our campaign is out, end of story. The only exception to this would probably be CMT to help with SPV2. And really, we are not bragging about something that other people don't have. If I wanted to brag, I wouldn't release the SP scripts at all. We showed the videos to show the cool stuff that we can do with the campaign now. I don't see why you would want to look at a bunch of SP scripts instead of watching a video of cool new stuff that we can do. On another note, if you can't type correctly, then please stay out of any further Zteam topics.

[fatso784]

Sorry, missed the part where you guys said you'd release the scripts. I apologize.

You better hurry up with that though. Or I'll start flaming again.

EDIT: That is selfish. You're pissing me off by letting CMT in on the scripts. Either don't let anyone in on them until release(besides ZTeam, of course), or release them now. I don't like CMT getting an upper hand on others. It would be okay if it was their program, but its yours. If one map team can get it, why can't we all?

[ICEE]

they also said that cmt cant have the scripts yet....


plus, they SHOULD withhold the tool for obvious reasons

[ShadowSpartan]

That is selfish. You're pissing me off by letting CMT in on the scripts. Either don't let anyone in on them until release(besides ZTeam, of course), or release them now. I don't like CMT getting an upper hand on others. It would be okay if it was their program, but its yours. If one map team can get it, why can't we all?
Wow. I don't care what pisses you off to be perfectly honest. I said the only other team that would probably get an exception is CMT. Do you know why that is? CMT is a really good modding team. They work hard at what they do. Why not give them the scripts a little early so that they can fix problems related to checkpoints, and get SPV2 released on time. People like you make me wonder why I would even release the SP scripts in the first place.

[ShadowSpartan]

SPV2 doesn't have a date to be "released ontime".
However, I have talked to Masterz. They have a rough schedule of when they are aiming for SPV2 to be released.

[kenney001]

I can totally understand why this program isnt being released. You dont want little rippers to get their hand son people's scripts. But the thing is, what harm is done by that? "ZOMG TIMMY CAN now get the scripts to open the door in zanzibar!!!! WE WILL ALL DIE!!!!!!!" honestly i have yet to see a script worth protecting. But I understand completely that it is your application and you have the right to do whatever you want with it.

[legionaire45]

Why do all you selfish people want this app when it will obviously kill Halo CE? Just like how the release of how to write scripts did way back when?

oh wait...

[ShadowSpartan]

Why do you all you selfish guys want this app when it will obviously kill Halo CE? Just like how the release of how to write scripts did way back when?

oh wait...
I, nor anybody else, has claimed that the release of the application would result in CE's "death".

[legionaire45]

I, nor anybody else, has claimed that the release of the application would result in CE's "death".
I'm just relating the current situation with the situation that occured back when only a few people knew how to script. I'm sure you know this already, hell, it was before my time but I'll explain it for the noobies here, 9mm released a basic tutorial on how to make a simple script. All of the big coders/people who knew scripting at the time thought that instead of helping everyone, scripting would simply allow retards to somehow crash servers. The guys working on Prom were against the idea to the point that they wanted nobody to know about scripting until they had released Prom so that they could control it.

Now, before I continue here, I want to ask you guys a questrion or 2: What do you think will really happen that will hurt anyone in this community to the point that they would leave it? What kind of horrible things would happen as a result of this app being released?

I'm not trying to be an ass, I just want to know what your logic behind this is. Obviously it is your app, you can do whatever you want with it.

[ShadowSpartan]

What do you think will really happen that will hurt anyone in this community to the point that they would leave it? What kind of horrible things would happen as a result of this app being released?
If I could actually understand the first question, I would answer it. Next time please word it better. As for the second question, I choose not to allow other people's scripts to be accessed. Why not be happy with what everybody wants, which is the SP scripts.

[Masterz1337]

Wow people calm down. This app wouldn't kill CE. The point is, there is no reason to be ripping people's scripts, if they want it open sourced, they would open source them. It's about respecting the authors work, not about holding you guys back.

The SP scripts arn't released, there CAN be complications at first. Don't be yelling how it's unfair they arn't released. People use to say all us people who had the HTC back in the day were being unfair. I can't tell you how many times a tagset was fucked over due to HTC, or how complicated old versions were. Let Zteam do what they want with their app. You have no reason to be angry with them for "Holding you back" when there are 2 other script extractors that were developed by other people.

[legionaire45]

If I could actually understand the first question, I would answer it. Next time please word it better.
Sorry about that, I forgot to type half the question =P. What I asked was "What effect, in your opinion(s) do you think having a script leaked will have on the author?" My understanding is that if you leak/rip a script and try and use it that you will need to set it up for your map, right? ex. Say I'm making a multiplayer map with a script that syncs a bunch of doors together and I steal a script from some other map that has a similar thing. Won't I need to have knowledge of how to script anyway if I want to change that script around so it will work in my specific case? Either that or make the map work around the script? That is my limited understanding of it anyway.

As for the second question, I choose not to allow other people's scripts to be accessed. Why not be happy with what everybody wants, which is the SP scripts.
I can agree with people having control over their works. Would there be any easy way to make a simple database of some kind that has a list of maps that are off limits to ripping? Ex. If a person complains that their map is having it's scripts pillaged you can force some kind of update or check that makes that map off limits? I'm not a programmer so for all I know I could sound like a silly dipshit right now (probably do anyway =P).

Although the simpler solution is to not release the app anyway. People always figure out ways around these things anyway in the long run, so my solution probably wouldn't work for long, if at all.

[StankBacon]

you guys keep saying look at hek+

im looking.... i dont see any problem with it.

[Kornman00]

Wow people calm down. This app wouldn't kill CE. The point is, there is no reason to be ripping people's scripts, if they want it open sourced, they would open source them. It's about respecting the authors work, not about holding you guys back.
Weren't you FOR the movement to make HEK+ work with all maps and not just the stock maps made by bungie and gearbox?

[Patrickssj6]

With a bit of research, effort and a brain all of you guys could have done this even though it takes a lot of time. An app won't make the difference.

[Pooky]

you guys keep saying look at hek+

im looking.... i dont see any problem with it.

^

Just because people have the ABILITY to rip tags and put them in shitty box maps, doesnt necessarily mean anyone wants to play those shitty maps.

[p0lar_bear]

So, there's another dramabomb starting up around THIS app. Neato. :rolleyes:

Let's look at the facts:

The Halo Editing Kit+ stirred up one motherfuck of a controversy upon release. People didn't want the tag ripper released because people would liberally rip and "steal" "their" tags and assets. They claimed that it would kill CE. Fast-forward to today, CE modding is still alive, and the vast apocalypse that was prophecized hasn't happened.

What was going on is that these people were being selfish. While it seems very wrong to have your content that you worked on ripped, reused, and modified without your permission, people are missing the big picture that this is just a game. An unsupported 5-year-old game given to hobbyists for the purpose of making Halo do something else besides Blood Gulch. Nobody is getting paid for doing what they do, there's no corporate sponsorships, and the limits the Blam engine has makes it damn sure that nobody'd want to buy rights to your mod to improve on it and make it more known. On top of that, 80% of the stuff that was "kept" from the community was assets ripped from Halo PC and Halo 2, which as we've learned before, belongs to Bungie, and not the rippers/reskinners/remodelers/taggers who put them in-game.

Of course, the droolmonkeys, who must have these awesome tools NAOW OR ELSE HAX, don't help the situation either. They run around making empty threats in futile attempts to get this tool that is so awesome, which in fact all they're doing is giving the aforementioned people a reason to NOT have the tool given out, and pissing off the community in general. These are also the people who, once they get it, will dink with it, try to use it, fail horribly, and then run back at the developer who made it to bitch them out because they can't read a fucking readme. No matter what, though, these people bitch and bitch and bitch until the item gets leaked and/or released.

So, we have this similar situation going on here again. I personally feel that holding back the application itself for the reason of stopping people from ripping scripts is stupid. If someone does rip a script, you have to take into consideration whether or not the ripper has enough knowledge of BSL to make heads or tails from it. The average kiddie will rip teh z0mg awesum bordin skript!!11one, and get only that far. If they know how to compile the script, I'd bet 95% of them won't be able to correctly place and name the needed objects, and they probably won't have some tag references the script needs. It could be used, however, to help people who have half a brain learn how a person got something to work, since BSL is thoroughly undocumented, save for few tutorials and a few released scripts.

On the other hand, people who are urging for the release need to quiet down. All you're doing is annoying the developers and researchers, and going nowhere, as it is probable that the app won't be released; the coders have the final say in who gets the final product. Also, this program is bound to have bugs galore, as Masterz pointed out. The creators and supporters should test everything they can and fix whatever pops up, or else you'll end up with a Halo 2 Map Editor; something inconsistently polished, and missing enough documentation and resources to make your head implode.

So, there's the situation and my opinion on the matter, out on the table. Discuss.

[StankBacon]

p0lar wins.

[Patrickssj6]

The average kiddie will rip teh z0mg awesum bordin skript!!11one, and get only that far. If they know how to compile the script, I'd bet 95% of them won't be able to correctly place and name the needed objects...

lol so true

[malolo420]

Why do all you selfish people want this app when it will obviously kill Halo CE? Just like how the release of how to write scripts did way back when?

oh wait...
How will it kill CE, it will give people the opportunity to make maps better.


you guys keep saying look at hek+

im looking.... i dont see any problem with it.

Me too, it has a tag protecter.



Couldn't you make it not able to extract from protected maps?

Edit: and I agree with n00bs brother, nice rant p0lar. woot 100th post :P

[fatso784]

Wow. I don't care what pisses you off to be perfectly honest. I said the only other team that would probably get an exception is CMT. Do you know why that is? CMT is a really good modding team. They work hard at what they do. Why not give them the scripts a little early so that they can fix problems related to checkpoints, and get SPV2 released on time. People like you make me wonder why I would even release the SP scripts in the first place.

That's not what I was saying. You misunderstand. I know CMT works their asses off. I've been around for quite a while. No other mapping team does more than CMT. And I'm going to play SPV2 like it's a cheesedog with bacon bits on top. But I am trying to make a point - that if you give the scripts to associates, and exclude others, then those people you excluded feel a little left out.

p0lar_bear pretty much summed it up though (btw I enjoyed BioHalo - best original sp level to date :D).

[Archon23]

Even though HES RELEASING THE SCRIPTS ANYWAY.

[Hurrvish]

That's not what I was saying. You misunderstand. I know CMT works their asses off. I've been around for quite a while. No other mapping team does more than CMT. And I'm going to play SPV2 like it's a cheesedog with bacon bits on top. But I am trying to make a point - that if you give the scripts to associates, and exclude others, then those people you excluded feel a little left out.

p0lar_bear pretty much summed it up though (btw I enjoyed BioHalo - best original sp level to date :D).

I really have no idea what you are talking about. ShadowSpartan already said that he will release all the campaign scripts, just not the app. Why are you fussing about CMT getting the scripts earlier than everyone else?

[ShadowSpartan]

What I asked was "What effect, in your opinion(s) do you think having a script leaked will have on the author?"
I believe that they will feel as though the scripts they worked hard on to get working would just be taken from them. Sure you would have to be able to duplicate what they have in there map to get the scripts working, and also have an understanding of scripting, but really, how many scripts out there are worth ripping anyway. The main scripts that people want are the SP scripts to see how Bungie did the SP and so that people can create their own custom SP levels by looking at examples, or modify the current campaign to make it more awesome.


Would there be any easy way to make a simple database of some kind that has a list of maps that are off limits to ripping?
If people wanted a script bad enough, they would come up with a work around.


I personally feel that holding back the application itself for the reason of stopping people from ripping scripts is stupid. If someone does rip a script, you have to take into consideration whether or not the ripper has enough knowledge of BSL to make heads or tails from it.
Yes, a person would have to have enough knowledge of scripting to actually understand it and get it working in another map, but there is only a handful of scripts out there that are even worth ripping and seeing how they were done. If the creators of those scripts wanted to share how they did it, then they would have before. Now what are the main scripts that anybody wants? The SP scripts.


Also, this program is bound to have bugs galore, as Masterz pointed out.
Not really, I haven't ran into anymore bugs and all of the campaign levels have compiled.


The creators and supporters should test everything they can and fix whatever pops up, or else you'll end up with a Halo 2 Map Editor; something inconsistently polished, and missing enough documentation and resources to make your head implode.
Nice comparison.


Couldn't you make it not able to extract from protected maps?
As I said above, if a person wants something bad enough, they can come up with a way around it. I could probably do that, but wouldn't be worth my time. And also, if I was to do this, then people who worked on map's prior to HEK+'s release, their scripts would be taken without consent.


But I am trying to make a point - that if you give the scripts to associates, and exclude others, then those people you excluded feel a little left out.
Why would you feel excluded if eventually you will be getting the scripts anyway?

Don't the majority of you just want the SP scripts? Why would all of you people want an application to get other people's scripts. Why not try asking the creator if they would release their source scripts. If they don't, it is their choice, deal with it. Some people work really hard on their scripts. For instance, Tiamat and his Coldsnap scripts, which are huge. Just be happy that the SP scripts will be released.

[Roostervier]

In repsonse to fatso's remark about the others feeling left out--why should ShadowSpartan give half a fuck? He made the application and therefore can release any scripts he wishes to any one at any time. It would be nice, yes, if he cared (and he does), but why should he... really? You are already going to get the scripts, just a little bit later. There is nothing to feel left out about. Besides, it isn't set in stone that CMT is getting them (early) anyway.

I'd just like to know, though; what gives you the right to tell him he can or can not associate himself with whomever he likes and engage in what ever actions he pleases with said associates? If that wasn't what you were saying, then quit talking the way you are talking, because it sure as hell sounds like it. Just back off the subject and calm down. Just remember that in the end, everyone gets the SP scripts. Nothing more to complain about? I hope so. I'm sure when ShadowSpartan decided to go public with this, he knew there'd be some stirring, but he doesn't deserve the grief you are giving him.

[fatso784]

I'd just like to know, though; what gives you the right to tell him he can or can not associate himself with whomever he likes and engage in what ever actions he pleases with said associates?

I have no clue what you just said. And btw rooster, you're in CMT. Just in case you hadn't noticed.


Don't the majority of you just want the SP scripts? Why would all of you people want an application to get other people's scripts. Why not try asking the creator if they would release their source scripts. If they don't, it is their choice, deal with it. Some people work really hard on their scripts. For instance, Tiamat and his Coldsnap scripts, which are huge. Just be happy that the SP scripts will be released.

I understand that releasing the program will just end up in people stealing ideas, like with HEK+. And god knows we don't need another teh_kid around. I don't want the application - just gimme the Bungie sp scripts and I'll be content.

[Hurrvish]

He means "What gives you the right to tell him who he can associate with, and what he does with them?"

:downs:

[Archon23]

In simpler terms: You can't tell him what he should do with his crap.

[Roostervier]

He means "What gives you the right to tell him who he can associate with, and what he does with them?"

:downs:
Thank you.

Fatso, don't try to take offense to this. It's just that you are blowing this whole situation out of proportion, and for all of the wrong reasons. The fact that he is releasing the SP scripts should make this topic a pleasant one, not one big drama bomb.

[Jay2645]

Personally, I would like the SP scripts sooner rather than later, as I currently have no idea how far Zteam is on their Campaign, and I don't want to wait until waaaaaaaaaaay after Halo 3 is released to make a good singleplayer campaign. I'm just saying, who would be hurt by releasing the scripts now? Why must you feel you have to wait until Zteam's campaign comes out? The only thing you would be doing by doing that is making what could be a good campaign mod PHAIL because you guys decided to wait for god knows how long until the campaign comes out.

[Masterz1337]

Weren't you FOR the movement to make HEK+ work with all maps and not just the stock maps made by bungie and gearbox?
Yeah, I regret that now.

[ShadowSpartan]

Why must you feel you have to wait until Zteam's campaign comes out?
I have already explained my reasoning. I am not going to say it again, go read my previous posts thoroughly.

[Choking Victim]

I had a feeling I would come back to this, the decisions been made. Further arguing will result in thread lockage.

[Jay2645]

I have already explained my reasoning. I am not going to say it again, go read my previous posts thoroughly.
I still think it's stupid and selfish to do that just to have your mapping team be the first to use it.
Just an FYI, E3pO has been working on a script extractor for quite a while now, and he's actually going to release his, I believe.
Go ahead and take all the time you want on your campaign, Zteam. I have mine finished, I just need the scripts...

[Archon23]

For the love of god. Opinions are opinions you have the right to state them but please if you have something to say about this issue would you please kindly shut the fuck up? ShadowSpartan has already made it abundantly clear what his reasoning is and why hes doing it. No need to argue any more past that point. Its useless and just clogs this thread up more.

So can we PLEASE get back ontopic (Aka let this thread sink into oblivion until they have more updates to post >_>)?

[Choking Victim]

I still think it's stupid and selfish to do that just to have your mapping team be the first to use it.
Just an FYI, E3pO has been working on a script extractor for quite a while now, and he's actually going to release his, I believe.
Go ahead and take all the time you want on your campaign, Zteam. I have mine finished, I just need the scripts...
Locked. I might unlock it if theres something cool to show. We're the ones who made it, we'll do as we please. The descision stands, they will be released but once our campaign is finished and public.