Making Caverns

[jngrow]

Hey, I'm someone who likes to make all the cliffs/terrain of my map first, then put caverns in, and shave off different pieces for room for bases etc.

Here's my question: Is there a way to make caverns by using boolean? It worked one time, but I couldn't get it to work afterwards.

[Con]

Generally, people just extrude faces or groups of faces from the cliff inwards to form a tunnel, then touch it up.

[jngrow]

Oh. That's simple enough. XD thanks.

[Phopojijo]

Just a quick question though, what program are you running?

[Bastinka]

Here's my question: Is there a way to make caverns by using boolean? It worked one time, but I couldn't get it to work afterwards.
I wouldn't try boolean, it messes up your model and it looks nicer if you plane model to attach it. :)

Also, some people say Halo doesn't like boolean... Maybe the same applies to Halo 2?

[Con]

I never use boolean; it never ends up working the way I want it to :X
If in your case it does, make sure to look for anything wrong with the area afterwards. You might encounter some icky poly issues or open edges etc.

[Roostervier]

Well, Connor, you use Maya. Not sure if it's boolean acts the same as 3ds max's does, etc. =p

But anyway, I suggest cutting edges and then extruding. Then some MAJOR clean up.






Also, Maya is epic fucking win :awesome:

[edit] Shiz, ninjaz don't like smileys. D:

[jngrow]

What is a "plane model"?

EDIT:
And yeah, extrusion method requires MAJOR clean up.

[Bastinka]

Plane Modeling Tutorial. (http://tutorials.moddb.com/16/beretta-9000-video-tutorial/)

[Roostervier]

Plane modeling is a good option... but the way I model things, I extrude and clean it up, then polish it.

[Con]

extrusion method requires MAJOR clean up.
Nothing more than you would do to add detail and all-around niceness anyway.

[jngrow]

Yeah, I guess... Sigh, it just sucks, because I got a really nice cave in like 20 seconds with that lucky boolean.. o well

[Bastinka]

Plane modeling is a good option... but the way I model things, I extrude and clean it up, then polish it.
:O
That should be called 'Clay modeling'. Except Zbrush already took that title :(

[Roostervier]

Jngrow, you will never, ever get a nice result with anything when you spend 20 seconds on it.

[et_cg]

Jngrow, you will never, ever get a nice result with anything when you spend 20 seconds on it.

He might get a hole with a couple of verts that were lost in the process. If he's lucky. lol

If you want really want to unlock the power of 3ds max, start using Editable poly mode. (Just right click> Convert to> Editable Poly)

[Bastinka]

People have different ways of modelling, I used editable mesh. Poly seems too worthless and has too many features I don't need. Thats only my opinion on it though.

[et_cg]

It's good to have an opinion... I myself had a hard time transitioning over a couple years ago. But when I did, I realized how awesome it was. It limits you in ways that editable mesh won't, and with those limits - you can stay sane while making stuff for video games. It's limits have a lot of work arounds too, and the extra nifty stuff just makes it a blast to work with for me.

I still use Editable mesh, but I've been using Poly for so long, that I have a hard time going back...

[Con]

:O
That should be called 'Clay modeling'. Except Zbrush already took that title :(
It's called primitive modeling (as in starting all models with a primitive) or subdivision modeling.
edit: except maya has subdivision as an object type, it's like a mix between nurbs and poly I think. Haven't worked with it much. Don't get it mixed with that.

Jngrow, you will never, ever get a nice result with anything when you spend 20 seconds on it.
so true

[jngrow]

Jngrow, you will never, ever get a nice result with anything when you spend 20 seconds on it.

Haha, well it was exaggerated, but it was like a polished cave that needed clean up. I made a cylinder, gave it noise, shaped it to fit the cave I wanted, booleaned, and I had a nice cave, with some open edges that were easily fixed. But the actual just constructing the cave, took me 20 seconds. The whole process took me about 5 minutes. But yeah, I see where you guys are coming from XD. And I've been using editable poly this whole time. I just have a feeling I'm doing a lot of extra work that there are already features for.

[Roostervier]

I know you were exaggerating, but noise isn't the best option either. I'd personally triangulate it first and add details by moving verts and cutting edges.

[jngrow]

Wow, I have no idea what triangulate means, or how to cut an edge. Sigh, more 3ds max tutorial time.

[Con]

I wouldn't triangulate before cutting edges, it mucks things up and you have to merge verts all the time. Triangulating a surface is just taking 4 or more sided polygons and making them into 2 or more triangles. Cutting edges is basically cutting faces, or adding edges between existing ones to define surfaces.

[et_cg]

Wow, I have no idea what triangulate means, or how to cut an edge. Sigh, more 3ds max tutorial time.

Use the cut tool in Vertex Selection, or Polygon Selection. I usually stick to those two selections when I'm in editable poly mode. Cut allows you to litterally draw in new edges/faces.

[jngrow]

Haha. All these people with different methods and opinions on how to make stuff. I guess I'll just have to figure out what works best for me.

EDIT

To et_cg: Whoa awesome. And yeah, I don't think I've ever used anything but poly or vertex.

[Roostervier]

I use edge for lots of things, but mostly for cut and extrusion, when in max. I model in Maya now, though.

[Llama Juice]

poly>mesh

poly is like mesh but on acid

[Phopojijo]

Maya does shit *all* differently apparently. There's no modeling modes for polygons, just "polygons" (or "NURBS", or "SubD", "paint effects", particles/dynamics, etc.)

Autodesk tried to introduce context sensitivity into Maya 8, but I find myself just turning it off and defaulting to having everything accessible at all times (from spacebar hotbox, which is a godsend btw)

[jahrain]

Oh shi! I don't know if anyone knew this already, but I just found out a way to make the polygon split tool 10x more awesome! If you open the tool options panel for it, and uncheck the "Split only from edges" option and you can literally draw edges freely onto a model like this:
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/5121/maya2007073016101790xr0.jpg This makes adding details a breeze.

[et_cg]

Oh shi! I don't know if anyone knew this already, but I just found out a way to make the polygon split tool 10x more awesome! If you open the tool options panel for it, and uncheck the "Split only from edges" option and you can literally draw edges freely onto a model like this:
Image removed
This makes adding details a breeze.


In 3ds max you never needed to uncheck anything. Just work in Editable poly mode and use the cut tool.

[jahrain]

3ds max and maya can do basically most of the same things for polygon modeling, but just in different ways. The only thing that really bothered me in 3ds max is if my cat jumped up onto my keyboard while working in it, every setting just gets way fuct up and random things break.

[et_cg]

3ds max and maya can do basically most of the same things for polygon modeling, but just in different ways. The only thing that really bothered me in 3ds max is if my cat jumped up onto my keyboard while working in it, every setting just gets way fuct up and random things break.

You can say that again. lol

Anyways, when are you going to respond to my PM?

[jngrow]

Well, I found my preferred method (for now). I use select some polys, make them line up, and use the bridge function. I move around edges and vertices to make it look more "cavish", and then, depending how it turns out, I might MSmooth.

[et_cg]

I might MSmooth.

Instead, try tesselating, then configuring vertecies by hand. :)

Better yet, try using the cut tools in editable poly to add more polygons. It's really neat how much detail you can add and conserve triangle counts with cut.

[jngrow]

yeah, I'm starting to use the cut tool more, although the wierd "bendy-ness"
sort of annoys me. Also, someone told me about converting to editable mesh to find open edges. How do I do this exactly?

BTW, Thanks for the input/help everyone :P.

[et_cg]

yeah, I'm starting to use the cut tool more, although the wierd "bendy-ness"
sort of annoys me. Also, someone told me about converting to editable mesh to find open edges. How do I do this exactly?

BTW, Thanks for the input/help everyone :P.

Finding errors come naturally. There's really no way to just teach someone what exactly to look for. I mean, error files are okay, but that still doesn't explain "how to" fix it.

I don't know what they meant by going into editable mesh to find errors. I just naturally know what to look for. Doesn't take long to learn, if that gives you any hope :).

[jngrow]

Well, here is sort of my "progress" on making caverns so far, with all the various input of your posts.

Simple Cave 1:
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9966/cave1ft5.th.jpg

3-way cave attempt 1:
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/8459/cave2azt4.th.jpg (http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cave2azt4.jpg)

3-way cave attempt 2: (I screened with the grid this time, so you can see how I made it)
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3698/cave3apt9.th.png (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cave3apt9.png)
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/438/cave3btb7.th.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cave3btb7.jpg)
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/1183/cave3cmn4.th.jpg (http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cave3cmn4.jpg)

The 1st 3-way attempt was using a combo of extrude, boolean, and msmooth, none which turned out so great. My second attempt used bridge, cutting, and chamfer for the nice cavernous smooth-ish borders.

[et_cg]

It's okay, but seriously, my thought's were, that's pretty ugly, and probably far from what we knew what we were saying...

I know you have it in you to do better than that. So let's see it! (it just takes fiddling, and some examples, check out some h1 maps, you can easily extract those BSPs if you have a copy of HCE)

[jngrow]

Yeah, that has been my biggest problem with maps so far. I know "how" to do it, I just don't know "what". I was messin around trying to make forerunner structures, and I had no idea how to make it look the way I wanted. When I was making this cave, I didn't know what else to do to it to make it look "right". Thanks for the input though, I'm gonna go look at those BSPs.

EDIT

Haha by the way, orignally I was just trying to get caves that I could work with and then make them look nice. I didn't know how to put holes in things before. Now I do. That is what my original question was, haha XD.