A 96 kb FPS???

[Emmzee]

It's true, folks. This game takes up a measly 96 kilobytes on your HDD, and it isn't half bad. Here are some pics.
http://kk.kema.at/files/gfx/full1.jpg

http://kk.kema.at/files/gfx/full5.jpg

http://kk.kema.at/files/gfx/full4.jpg


Download it here (http://www.theprodukkt.com/kkrieger). A shame it's short and kinda easy though.

And it's easy on your system!


Minimum system requirements

1.5GHz Pentium 4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_4) / Athlon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athlon) or faster
512MB of RAM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_Access_Memory)
GeForce (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce) 4Ti (or higher) or ATI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATI_Technologies) Radeon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon) 8500 (or higher) graphics card (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_card) supporting pixel shader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_shader) 1.3
DirectSound (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectSound)-compatible sound hardware
DirectX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX) 9.0b
Microsoft Windows (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows)
95KB disk space

[LlamaMaster]

No way....

[Stormwing]

Played this a LOOOONG time ago. Revolutionary indeed.

The lack of story/background, rather uninteresting weapons/enemies and somewhat mundane gameplay made me turn it off after a while, but yeah, the graphics and everything were awesome. Shame there aren't more games like this.

some of the enemies totally creeped the hell out of me tho, lol.

[mR_r0b0to]

yah, this is oooolld
i remember it :D

pretty cool though

[DaneO'Roo]

WHAT THE FUCK??????????????

How the FUCK???? Where on earth does the memory for all the textures and geometry go??

[Limited]

Mega old, I didnt think it was that great when I played it.

[mR_r0b0to]

WHAT THE FUCK??????????????

How the FUCK???? Where on earth does the memory for all the textures and geometry go??


voldemort keeps em in his pocket

[Archon23]

WHAT THE FUCK??????????????

How the FUCK???? Where on earth does the memory for all the textures and geometry go??


Its ~300 Bytes a texture =D.

[et_cg]

I thought to myself:

Amazing quality for the size.

But quantity of weapons? Permutations? Story?

It's all quite interesting, and I do love the idea of reducing high quality game's sizes. But, the look and feel of that game is couple years old. And I do hope to see some amazing stuff from these people. They've done a good job.

(Although, the intro camera movements were okay, the overlay just made the graphics look horrible, imo. It made me think that the code that was written wouldn't work on my video card :(.)

[mR_r0b0to]

I thought to myself:

Amazing quality for the size.

But quantity of weapons? Permutations? Story?

It's all quite interesting, and I do love the idea of reducing high quality game's sizes. But, the look and feel of that game is couple years old. And I do hope to see some amazing stuff from these people. They've done a good job.


it is a couple of years old

[Limited]

It was intended to make a game really small (under 100kb) thats why alot of things were comprimised :P

[LlamaMaster]

Well, piss poor FPS completely ruined the game for me. Btw is there such thing as a ingame poly counter? I'm curious of how many polys are in this game.

[Emmzee]

Well, piss poor FPS completely ruined the game for me. Btw is there such thing as a ingame poly counter? I'm curious of how many polys are in this game.
It's your vid card. The game runs great on my system.

[LlamaMaster]

It's your vid card. The game runs great on my system.
Wow, I didn't know that[/sarcasm]

[et_cg]

Well, piss poor FPS completely ruined the game for me. Btw is there such thing as a ingame poly counter? I'm curious of how many polys are in this game.


Oh, so Halo 2 Vista isn't an option for you... I see.

Guess you'll just have to settle for Marble Blast Gold.

[LlamaMaster]

Oh, so Halo 2 Vista isn't an option for you... I see.

Guess you'll just have to settle for Marble Blast Gold.
Marble Blast Gold is:awesome:!

[Emmzee]

Wow, I didn't know that[/sarcasm]
That was the worst sarcasm I've ever read.

[Pooky]

It was pretty boring, and doesn't look as good in motion as in screenshots. But, it was impressive nonetheless.

[DaneO'Roo]

It looks like F.E.A.R'S graphics, on a crappy card, for such a small game, thats amazing.

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/8558/pno00012007080111024582ly8.jpg





96 kb, wtf? 1 of those textures SHOULD be alot bigger than that.

[Dr Nick]

Nice, boring-ish, but nice.

[Archon23]

96 kb, wtf? 1 of those textures SHOULD be alot bigger than that.

Each texture is roughly 300 bytes.

If your wondering how they did it. The game sorta reproduces everything. So it makes the textures and models again whenever you load. Thats why the loading screens take a while.

[Con]

That is simply amazing. I never thought that something like this could take up so little space...

[Dr Nick]

I wish something like Bungie knew about this, that way they could have one really LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG game.
Instead of 3 short ones.

[InnerGoat]

It's true, folks. This game takes up a measly 96 kilobytes on your HDD, and it isn't half bad. Here are some pics.

Download it here (http://www.theprodukkt.com/kkrieger). A shame it's short and kinda easy though.

And it's easy on your system!When this originaly came out it was one of the worst playing games to date, and that was YEARS ago. There is a short tech demo out there by these guys, btw. Its pretty neat.:D

http://www.theprodukkt.com/debris

[Con]

except if you read the readme, it says it's taken them 2 years to get to that point.

[et_cg]

except if you read the readme, it says it's taken them 2 years to get to that point.

Yeah, because of compression and technologys.

Con, you know why games are so huge, right? They don't use small/innovative ideas to conserve memory. And on top of that, they don't use compression on much. Models/textures can look amazing and generally small.

[TheGhost]

It's ironic that this was just mentioned in an article I read about whether future games fitting on DVD9 discs (namely for the XBox 360). Yes, this is very very old, and I'm surprised more of you have not seen it. Anyway, the point of this shooter has nothing to do with the story or bad guys or anything like that. It's simply a tech demonstration, and quite an amazing one at that. Appreciate it for what it is, not what's it's not!

[DaneO'Roo]

^ i agree. To fit all THAT into 96 kb it's astonishing. Imagine if it got better, and more clean and faster. We could have full next gen games less then 100 mb o_O

[Bad Waffle]

my guess that more systems dont use this technique is that

1. it has to "create" all the game files in your RAM, which is pretty resource intensive
2. it creates models textures with preset "brushes" so complex detail would require a lot more brushes which would take a lot more room

but hey, im not a coder, just a good guesser. all i can tell is that its amazing in its size.

EDIT: well hey, guess i was right. looking around on their site more, it IS based on a brush system. Quite interesting, they need a tool that can "reproduce" a texture or model in that format though. then it would really take off.

[Love De Lux]

Old. But still aweseome.

( 64k demo are a way cooler >_> fr. 08 (http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=1221) , Heaven Seven (http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=5) , Project Genesis (http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=9438)...)

[Phopojijo]

Everything's a tradeoff. You can have multiple algorithms which do the same thing.

I'll give you an example from my programming course:

You have 3 sorting algorythms -- all 3 arrange numbers from lowest to highest:

1) Looks through a list, finds the smallest -- swaps it with the first unsorted position and moves up one. It does this until there's no unsorted positions (the list is in order)

2) Choose a random center point -- move all the higher values to the higher end -- move all the lower values to the lower end. Continue with the two sub-lists like done with the big list. Continue until each sublist is 1 variable long.

3) Loop through the list and find the maximum value. Create a second list where each position on the list counts the number of times that number occurs. Example: Say there's 4 2's in the list to be sorted -- the second list would have "4" as its second list item. Loop through the second list writing each tally back to the first array from lowest to highest.

Breakdown:

The first algorithm is fairly simple but... since it requires a search each placement... as you add data to a total of "n" values... it takes n^2 more time. Small, compact... but slows like a biatch the more you need to process.

The second algorythm is quite more complex to program correctly but under optimal conditions it can be very fast. With a total of "n" values -- it takes n*log(n) time. This is less than n^2. Its also fairly compact in memory.

The third algorythm is fast... speed is linear (n time for n values) with increases. The issue? Its a fat frigger in memory since you basically need to have 2 peices of data in memory. The array you were given stays there... but you also need to create a secondary dump which can get huge depending on how large the values in the list get. If you have a lot of small numbers than this list is small... if you have very few BIG numbers -- then the second list will be as long as that big number is... which could be insaaaaaaaaanely large.


How does this relate?

You have 3 objects with 3 separate advantages and 3 separate disadvantages.

Here, however, we have a conflict between 1) Creating textures by hand and dumbly tossing them in memory... and 2) Creating textures by processing and shaders.

If you create a texture by hand you'll need to store it on the disk and you'll also need to store it in RAM.

If you create a texture by program -- all you need to do is store the program (and occasionally the program's output in RAM, depending on how its programmed). Lines of code are small compared to multiple animated DXT images. They also use processing power that may not have been used before.

So what does this mean?

Say you have -- water. You can hire an art dude to draw every frame of its animation manually -- make it seemless manually -- and play it tiled on a plane assigned that material.

You can hire a dude to create a program that manually simulates water -- and stick the output as the water's shader.

If you have excess processing power but too little RAM -- #2 is your best option (think PS3)... if you have wasted RAM but little processing power to spare (think Xbox360) -- #1 is your best option.


You need to make tradeoffs. Microsoft almost always trades off processing power for RAM whenever they do anything. The reason being of course -- RAM is cheap and easy to upgrade. Processors just don't get fast enough to compensate for saving RAM.

That's one of the reasons why you constantly see Windows eat more and more RAM. Every version more and more algorithms are getting replaced with less-RAM friendly code -- which happens to be easier to debug and occasionally easier on the CPU.

Think about that before you complain about 40$ of RAM :p

[ExAm]

Whoa. That just seems impossible. It has dynamic lighting and everything. How?

[n00b1n8R]

It stores the rest in your mind.

not like you were using it :p

[Tweek]

it's all prodedurally generated. ALL of it.

(code takes up way less room than images etc)

[Kornman00]

If you have excess processing power but too little RAM -- #2 is your best option (think PS3)... if you have wasted RAM but little processing power to spare (think Xbox360) -- #1 is your best option.

How the HELL does the 360 have too "little" processing power?

[MNC]

All the processing is done on the spot, hence why it's so small.

[et_cg]

How the HELL does the 360 have too "little" processing power?


True, triple core, 3.2 ghz, IBM PowerPC processor. What more could you ask for? (Other than adjusting to it's endian format)

[Dr Nick]

How the HELL does the 360 have too "little" processing power?3.2GHz tri-core ftw!

[Skyline]

Doesn't the PS3 have it's own type of processor? Cell processor I think it is?

[Dr Nick]

Doesn't the PS3 have it's own type of processor? Cell processor I think it is?The Cell Broadband Engine.

What I don't get is that it only has 256 MB of ram and vram...
And it all looks so real!

[et_cg]

The Cell Broadband Engine.

What I don't get is that it only has 256 MB of ram and vram...
And it all looks so real!

Blah, too slow of tech, imo. I really wish they would've done something more solid. I've done a *little research* but it's just... blah, not very friendly, from what I understand.

[Zeph]

How the HELL does the 360 have too "little" processing power?
I believe he was referring to the larger floating point abilities of the PS3 against the 360's CPU solution as well as the 360 having double the RAM of the PS3.

[ExAm]

True, triple core, 3.2 ghz, IBM PowerPC processor. What more could you ask for? (Other than adjusting to it's endian format)You could actually hack an Xbox 360 to run Mac OSX :/
PowerPC is what Macs used to use.

[et_cg]

You could actually hack an Xbox 360 to run Mac OSX :/
PowerPC is what Macs used to use.

It'd take a hell of a while. The graphics hardware that's running I don't think are even compatible with any drivers for PCs. Not sure what the exact gpu it is, but I know it was codenamed "Hollywood," or something of the manner. Was it "R-(something)"?

[Xetsuei]

Xbox 360 uses the ATI Xenos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenos).

[legionaire45]

It'd take a hell of a while. The graphics hardware that's running I don't think are even compatible with any drivers for PCs. Not sure what the exact gpu it is, but I know it was codenamed "Hollywood," or something of the manner. Was it "R-(something)"?
Hollywood is the successor to the "Flipper" GPU in the Gamecube. Hollywood is in the Wii. The Xenos GPU in the 360 is basically a prototype R600 (Current HD2900 series cards).

And from what I heard about the guy "getting OS X working on a 360," I heavily heavily doubt that. Especially after seeing this mod (http://freewebs.com/electric0ant/xbox360pc.htm) and then seeing the supposed "booting up" video.
v8X8N3LztU4
Hint for the slow: Thats the exact same room.

[Dr Nick]

Back on topic ---- The game wasn't bad.

[Phopojijo]

I believe he was referring to the larger floating point abilities of the PS3 against the 360's CPU solution as well as the 360 having double the RAM of the PS3.Sort-of.

The specialized capacities of the Cell (once optimized) are substantially more than the 6 virtualized cores (3 physical) of the PPC chip.

Also the 360 doesn't have double the RAM of the PS3, it has just 10MB more (512+10 versus 256+256). The PS3 also has more RAM requirements to make their 1080p "mandate". The problem with the PS3 RAM is that its not always where you want it when you want it there... if either bank fills up -- to access the other you'll need to talk to:

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20060329/3dps303.jpg

GDDR3 Ram for the Cell? Cell, Motherboard, GPU, Motherboard, vRam, Motherboard, GPU, Motherboard, Cell.

XDR Ram for the GPU (most common in non-procedural environments)? GPU, motherboard, Cell, motherboard, XDR, motherboard, Cell, motherboard, GPU.

You can see the potential for overhead issues.

So yea, basically I was saying characteristics relative to one another by no means is the Xbox360 slow... but it doesn't have the capacity to run procedurals like the PS3 could. Neither could PS3 have the capacity to run static artist-defined content like the 360.

This is probably why the Xbox360 version of many sports games are optimized by EA versus the PS3 versions... more people own 360s so they can do more "baked" content than procedurals. Why do more work to do both, when you could do half the work and make it look like a huge 360 technical leap by your developers?

[legionaire45]

When this originaly came out it was one of the worst playing games to date, and that was YEARS ago. There is a short tech demo out there by these guys, btw. Its pretty neat.:D

http://www.theprodukkt.com/debris
That fucking demo is so awesome. it is a trippy.

Oh, and I get anywhere from 15-60 FPS with it. It usually eats up 20% of my 4 gigs of memory, so thats about 800 megabytes of content (ish). Mb.

My GPU is the thing limiting me though =(. No 4x multisampling and awesome sauce ultra textures for me.

.kkrieger is cool, but could have used some better AI. The graphics were superb considering the filesize, but the AI is on par with a retarded Gopher tbh. Thats the only glaring weakness I can find. The UI obviously could have had a little bit more thought put into it, but thats not the point =P.

[ExAm]

Hollywood is the successor to the "Flipper" GPU in the Gamecube. Hollywood is in the Wii. The Xenos GPU in the 360 is basically a prototype R600 (Current HD2900 series cards).

And from what I heard about the guy "getting OS X working on a 360," I heavily heavily doubt that. Especially after seeing this mod (http://freewebs.com/electric0ant/xbox360pc.htm) and then seeing the supposed "booting up" video.
v8X8N3LztU4
Hint for the slow: Thats the exact same room.I meant that the fact that the X360's CPU is a PowerPC CPU (Which Macs used to run on) means that, with lots of hacking, someone might be able to install Mac OS.

Besides, that link is someone using their own components, including a different CPU. No relation to what I'm talking about.

[et_cg]

Here its all finished! up and running, and yes I have installed OSX, why? coz i can!! and most of you have prob seen the vid of youtube..

He's referring to the video that you put up. Just check the whole mod out, he shows mac running on his "360" encased PC. He even has XP on there. I'd say props to him, but meh. No need to fool people into thinking the actual 360 can be some type of computer. There's idiots out there that'd actually believe it, sadly.

[Amit]

This game is crazy. The lighting is like Lost Planet's! The only problem is that i want to play it at 1280x1024 with like at least 4xAA and 8x Anisotropic Filtering.