God damned socialist nation

[Mr Buckshot]

Yeah, I live in Vancouver (moved here from San Jose in August 2004). And I have a huge complaint to make about this wonderful country.

The fucking government here is just too soft/socialist/etc. Two years ago, every teacher in the province save for the university profs and private school teachers went on STRIKE. Those of you who live in the province of British Columbia probably went through the 2005 strike. I missed school for 2 weeks and the teachers finally went back to work after a pay raise or something.

Now, THE GARBAGE MEN ARE ON STRIKE, AND THEY HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR OVER 2 MONTHS.

My dad prevents our house from stinking up by driving the trash to Richmond (a city that's 10-20 minutes drive from Vancouver), where the garbage men were the first to stop their strike since they were the first to get a pay raise. But god damn, the neighborhood smells like shit. My neighbor even got fined for lighting a bonfire to burn his rotting food remains like bones, fruit peels, etc.

I really hate this stupid strike, and every time I pass a garbage man wearing a strike sign that says "we want a pay raise" or something, I want to spit at him or kick him in the nuts.

Seriously, in Singapore (where I was born) strikes wouldn't even happen because the original plotter(s) would be discovered and arrested before they could get the plan going (we have not had a single strike or riot since the 1960s). In China (where my grandparents were born, and where most of family still lives), strikers would be SHOT (Tianmen square, anyone?)

Post your views.

[Con]

I remember that teachers strike. They took off half of spring break so we could catch up in school.

[Emmzee]

Now I kinda get where Bill O'Reilly was coming from when he said teacher's unions are worse than a direct nuclear attack by terrorists on American soil. Thank God I live in a closed-shop state.

[Mr Buckshot]

I'm suddenly tempted to move back to California :O

I hope this stupid strike ends soon, the piling garbage is really annoying and we aren't allowed to burn it due to pollution.

[Boba]

I remember that teachers strike. They took off half of spring break so we could catch up in school.
I remember you telling me about that, too bad I was busy chillin' in Toronto. ;d

[rossmum]

That's because BC fails

Move to a real province like Alberta.

[Texrat]

Hmmm... how did unions originally gain prominence? Oh yeah: fighting abusive corporate bs.

It's sad we gotta swing from one extreme to another instead of finding a zone of mutually-beneficial common sense, but that's human nature for ya.

[Mr Buckshot]

(South)East Asia ftw. Like I said, rioters/strikers in China get shot, which is what these stupid garbage men deserve for going on strike and leaving our garbage to pile up and rot.

And in Singapore, if the strike somehow miraculously evaded the ears of the management/cops, the strikers would be arrested swiftly and fined to the point that they'd wish they'd just stayed with their jobs.

I hate these unions. In fact, there's a rumour that there may be another teacher's strike in BC. I just hope the telephone and TV companies don't go on strike, or else I am truly screwed.

[Texrat]

Personally I think garbage collectors are way underpaid.

After all, who here wants that job? Anyone? You know how it smells. You know what they have to deal with.

Pay 'em twice what they earn now. IMO they deserve it.

[Pooky]

Personally I think garbage collectors are way underpaid.

After all, who here wants that job? Anyone? You know how it smells. You know what they have to deal with.

Pay 'em twice what they earn now. IMO they deserve it.
IAWTP

Teachers deserve a lot more than what they get too.

[Rob Oplawar]

yeah, you get what you pay for. necessity is only half of what determines the price- if it's scarce, the price goes up, or you don't get it.

admittedly tho, that does really suck to have no garbage collection for 2 months, all cracks about the wastefulness of modern society and the shittyness of java aside.

naw java's alright, i'm warming up to it.
[more ot]jesus christ i'm all over the place today. i can't keep my mind focused on a single topic. bedtime then![/more ot]

[rossmum]

(South)East Asia ftw. Like I said, rioters/strikers in China get shot, which is what these stupid garbage men deserve for going on strike and leaving our garbage to pile up and rot.
Isn't that just a little extreme?

[Bodzilla]

The Stench of his own garbage and self-importance has gotten to him ross.

[nooBBooze]

Teachers deserve a lot more than what they get too.
id say this also apllies to ppl providing nursing services for old/handicapped ppl.

most of the politicians dont deserve half the salary their getting and their stil de facto on strike most of the time. :/

[Texrat]

IAWTP

Teachers deserve a lot more than what they get too.

Wholeheartedly agree.

The disparity between executive pay and wages for the actual workers has never been greater in recent history. CEOs make millions, teachers and garbage collectors garner a fraction of what they deserve. Something VERY wrong with this picture IMO.

[CN3089]

That's because BC fails

Move to a real province like Ontario.

ftfy, alberta sucks :v





Also, I too think that all people who strike should be shot http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/emot-jerkbag.gif

[Skiiran]

Alberta had mini-T-Rexes, CN. I've never heard of the mighty Ontariosaur.

[Leiukemia]

I'm sorry buckshot, you're usually pretty intelligent, but I think you're being a fucking retard. Yup, those underpayed people who handle your waste for a living sure deserve to be locked up or shot for fighting for themselves. I'm not at all saying I agree with the strike, but just that your point is fucking stupid. Do you even know what the issues are that are being fought over? Also, you've got to be really ignorant if you think all of the workers agree with it. A lot of people haven't had work, and do you really think people with that type of a job have a lot of money to live on during the strike? Use your brain for christs sakes.

[Pooky]

I'm sorry buckshot, you're usually pretty intelligent, but I think you're being a fucking retard. Yup, those underpayed people who handle your waste for a living sure deserve to be locked up or shot for fighting for themselves. I'm not at all saying I agree with the strike, but just that your point is fucking stupid. Do you even know what the issues are that are being fought over? Also, you've got to be really ignorant if you think all of the workers agree with it. A lot of people haven't had work, and do you really think people with that type of a job have a lot of money to live on during the strike? Use your brain for christs sakes.
but he might actually have to deal with his own waste instead of getting it removed for free! gosh whats wrong with you :U

[Warsaw]

I haul my own garbage to the dump.

All I have to say to people who can't do even that without a huge fuss is:

Suck it up. Do it yourself.

[Emmzee]

I haul my own garbage to the dump.

All I have to say to people who can't do even that without a huge fuss is:

Suck it up. Do it yourself.
I just drive on the freeway and surreptitiously dump it on the side of the road.

Way quicker. The dump's like 3 counties over.

[Warsaw]

That is still doing more work than people who have others haul it for them.

[Emmzee]

That is still doing more work than people who have others haul it for them.
But it's in the middle.

[Mr Buckshot]

There is currently no dump to use in Vancouver...it's all full and the garbage men are not going to maintain it.

So my dad drives the trash to Richmond. Heck, we heard that some people even drove their trash across the border.

I agree that these garbage men have low pay and stuff, but it's their own fault for not passing high school. I mean, Vancouver public schools are free, and you can apply for bursaries during must-pay events - so being from a poor family is no excuse to not graduate properly from high school. My friend is from a low-income family, and he has a part-time job every weekend to support his family, and yet he does well in school. Being poor understandable for university (it's expensive) but as long as you successfully graduate from high school, you don't have to be a garbage man. You won't be working in a high-paying job, of course, but being a clerk or something sure beats being a garbage man. And to get that, you just need to pass all your high school subjects.

I hope that these garbage men either pipe down and go back to work, or that our government just gives them what they want.

[Rob Oplawar]

oh boy, here it comes, I predict shouting and arguing.
let the games begin!

the "somebody's got to do it" argument aside, have you ever been in their position? Have you ever lived with parents who both work 2 shifts and fight incessantly when they're home, have 1 car or maybe not even that, in a tiny house in a bad neighborhood? If you had to work full time to help support your family I think you might drop out of high school too.

I'm just playing devil's advocate; I wanna see the arguments here. ;)

[Leiukemia]

There is currently no dump to use in Vancouver...it's all full and the garbage men are not going to maintain it.

So my dad drives the trash to Richmond. Heck, we heard that some people even drove their trash across the border.

I agree that these garbage men have low pay and stuff, but it's their own fault for not passing high school. I mean, Vancouver public schools are free, and you can apply for bursaries during must-pay events - so being from a poor family is no excuse to not graduate properly from high school. My friend is from a low-income family, and he has a part-time job every weekend to support his family, and yet he does well in school. Being poor understandable for university (it's expensive) but as long as you successfully graduate from high school, you don't have to be a garbage man. You won't be working in a high-paying job, of course, but being a clerk or something sure beats being a garbage man. And to get that, you just need to pass all your high school subjects.

I hope that these garbage men either pipe down and go back to work, or that our government just gives them what they want.

I don't think you take into consideration the circumstances that would end these people up with the jobs either. Things happen, and life can go to hell over simpler things then you may think. After seeing the types of vehicles you posted your family having, I wouldn't think you would even begin to understand about this sort of thing though. If you're going to argue that it shouldn't happen because there are others ways, then you don't know about the hardships of life. Just the simple fact that there are so many people doing that job sais that shit DOES happen to put them there. Not to mention not all of them are doing it as a career. Did you ever take into consideration that a sum of the people doing it are younger, and saving up to actually go to school to do something better? I don't think you've quite got this down in your head yet boy. Just go somewhere and think about what you're typing.

[Sever]

If we could all be astronauts and rock stars, who would make the sandwiches?
.

[Mr Buckshot]

As Chinese-Singaporeans, we have...different beliefs from you guys. If anyone remembers Tianmen Square from 1989, it was totally wrong, but similar tactics have been used many others times in China, and I support the use of that in certain cases. I guess that back there, family issues don't screw up the teenager's life as much as they do in North America. Back there, if your parents fight, you just ignore them and continue studying. If your parents beat you, you work hard and make 'em proud and they'll spoil you instead. If your parents are low-income, you work hard. If one parent is completely psycho, you report him and watch his ass get whooped by cops. If your parents are badass in the first place, you get disowned and hopefully picked up by better parents We have far fewer of those "drop out then join gangs and/or be garbage men" incidents.

Yeah, I admit that we've risen from semi-low-class Chinese (the reason why we moved to USA then Canada) to high-class Canadians, as some of you probably saw the cars my parents drive. It just happens that I have many friends who do not happen to be quite as lucky as I am, and I understand their plights - some have divorcing parents, others have to support younger siblings instead of doing work, and one of them even had his father, the sole breadwinner, become paralyzed for life. Yet all of them are passable, even excellent students in school. Or maybe it's because they're mostly Asian. And as a good friend I do what I can to help them out when they need it, whether it's by offering to pay for their books or taking up the brunt during school projects.

The fact is, these garbage men are necessary to do the job in a socialist nation like that, and they deserve to be fairly treated. But they deserve the pay they currently get. In Vancouver, many of these garbage men look and talk like complete punks, and many are even illiterate. It sucks for them, but personally I'd rather support my teachers (which I did two years ago willingly when they went on strike).

About dropping out of school: If you join gangs, smoke, etc, you'll be a garbage man at best. If you do a low-level job after dropping out but remain a decent guy, you'll rise a little.

[rossmum]

Anyone care to answer me a question?

What's to stop someone who topped every class from getting a job as a garbage collector? :raise:

[Bodzilla]

Matt King and Australian rugby league Star (his brother used to live down the road from me, friends of the family) is heading over to Britain next year to Play football, when only 4 years ago he was a garabage man.
Ture story. Not really relevant, but a cool fact nonetheless.

i Dont see what u have against garbage man. they do a shit job, for shit money. In ANY given workforce it should be: the Worse the job, the higher the Pay.

[Texrat]

I agree that these garbage men have low pay and stuff, but it's their own fault for not passing high school.

You don't know that they didn't pass. That's too broad.

And the low pay is not their fault. Again, it's a shitty job. Few want to do it. Therefore, the pay SHOULD be high. Simple supply and demand. The fact that it isn't has nothing at all to do with who did or did not pass high school. Regardless, the pay rate SHOULD be high for anyone willing to perfrom such a crappy, thankless job.

You may be pissed right now, buckshot, but try calming down and thinking this through. You're allowing emotion to overrule reason.

[Jay2645]

Textrat didn't double post? IT'S A SIGN OF THE APOCALYPSE!

[Texrat]

15% to 20% tops. Measure it. :p

[Phobias]

It could be worse, the sewage (spelling?) could have gone on strike...now THAT would be a bad smell alright.

[Mr Buckshot]

Matt King and Australian rugby league Star (his brother used to live down the road from me, friends of the family) is heading over to Britain next year to Play football, when only 4 years ago he was a garabage man.
Ture story. Not really relevant, but a cool fact nonetheless.

i Dont see what u have against garbage man. they do a shit job, for shit money. In ANY given workforce it should be: the Worse the job, the higher the Pay.

Haha, I see you watch Dirty Jobs on Mythbusters.

What pay do these guys get anyway? I'll have to check it up...

I guess their pay should be higher than the pay of garbage men in Singapore or China, since we have all these unions and stuff. Heck, their pay should probably be higher than those of the Americans because our stupid garbage trucks don't have those robotic arms and they have to get down and manually dump the garbage into the truck...and they have the problem of just throwing the bin on the ground within putting the lid back on (we don't have hinged cans here).

Worse the job...higher the pay...when I was younger, I used to think like that. Back where I come from, the worse the job, the lower the pay, and the government is proud of it.

Since these garbage men work for the government, I don't think the government is willing to give them much more, since our government is already lacking in areas like the police force and construction workers.

You guys all have a good point that in Vancouver, we do need the services of these garbage men to keep this province "clean and beautiful." But it's difficult to be too kind to such workers when there are many projects that need greater funding, like construction of the Skytrain line to link Vancouver and Richmond.

[Skiiran]

A Skytrain is worth nothing if no one comes in on it because your city smells like shit mixed with ammonia. You are marginalizing society's need of these simply hard-working men and women.

[Bodzilla]

Haha, I see you watch Dirty Jobs on Mythbusters.
No. i told u, his brother used to Live 2 house's down from us. and we are friends with their family. we follow'd "uncle Matt's" journey before he was famous.



I guess their pay should be higher than the pay of garbage men in Singapore or China, since we have all these unions and stuff. Heck, their pay should probably be higher than those of the Americans because our stupid garbage trucks don't have those robotic arms and they have to get down and manually dump the garbage into the truck...and they have the problem of just throwing the bin on the ground within putting the lid back on (we don't have hinged cans here).
Invent hinged cans then.....



Worse the job...higher the pay...when I was younger, I used to think like that. Back where I come from, the worse the job, the lower the pay, and the government is proud of it.
ok, now who is gunna do such a shit job for shit money?
Why do u think places like Australia and Canada have Massive trade shortages atm? It's because of arrogant assholes thinking that Deskjobs are more important and come with a higher "status" attached to it.
Without someone doing your plumbing Your in your own shit. Sometimes you dicks need to remember that.



Since these garbage men work for the government, I don't think the government is willing to give them much more, since our government is already lacking in areas like the police force and construction workers.
Construction is all well and good, but didnt u say u hated haveing a City that Stinks like a dump?
Get over yourself.
You cannont skimp on essentials.



You guys all have a good point that in Vancouver, we do need the services of these garbage men to keep this province "clean and beautiful." But it's difficult to be too kind to such workers when there are many projects that need greater funding, like construction of the Skytrain line to link Vancouver and Richmond.
They do need greater funding, however the Priority of that Funding should always be to people doing the Essential jobs.

[Mr Buckshot]

Skiiran wins the thread.

We need those guys back to work, but it's difficult to give them too much.

Why shouldn't we give them too much? In a socialist nation like this, this will only provoke the garbage men in other cities/provinces to rise up as well so that they can get the same pay that the Vancouver garbage men get.

Yep, it's a shitty job that no one wants to do, which is why the Japanese are so automated in such things. But if a shitty job is all you can get, you obviously have not done something correctly. Our desk jobs are important for the economy, of course, and the garbage job is important to preserve Vancouver's image as a clean and beautiful city. But it's a no-brainer job and all you need to know is how to identify a garbage can and how to drive a truck and how to manage the dump. There are very few no-brainer jobs other than Asian politics that are high-paying, trust me.

[Chewy Gumball]

Ontario garbage men get paid quite a bit last time I checked. It shouldn't be difficult to give them what they deserve.

[Pooky]

Heck, their pay should probably be higher than those of the Americans because our stupid garbage trucks don't have those robotic arms and they have to get down and manually dump the garbage into the truck...and they have the problem of just throwing the bin on the ground within putting the lid back on (we don't have hinged cans here).

America's a big place... there are no robotic armed trucks where I live, nor are there in a lot of areas.

[Skiiran]

Skiiran wins the thread.

We need those guys back to work, but it's difficult to give them too much.

Why shouldn't we give them too much? In a socialist nation like this, this will only provoke the garbage men in other cities/provinces to rise up as well so that they can get the same pay that the Vancouver garbage men get.

Yep, it's a shitty job that no one wants to do, which is why the Japanese are so automated in such things. But if a shitty job is all you can get, you obviously have not done something correctly. Our desk jobs are important for the economy, of course, and the garbage job is important to preserve Vancouver's image as a clean and beautiful city. But it's a no-brainer job and all you need to know is how to identify a garbage can and how to drive a truck and how to manage the dump. There are very few no-brainer jobs other than Asian politics that are high-paying, trust me.
Dude, no matter what may have happened to put them in that position, they are still sifting through your shit. Show some respect.

I mean really. Some guy might have a degree in geometry from the university of Smartasse and still be working in McShitties (I'll bet MOST people with a degree in geometry still work there) because no matter how smart you are, there are jobs that need filling, and people who fill them. Do you think those garbage men WANT to sift through your shit? Probably not. They DO want to know they'll have a place to sleep tonight, just like you.

[Texrat]

Skiiran wins the thread.

We need those guys back to work,

(snip)

But if a shitty job is all you can get, you obviously have not done something correctly.

And you had started doing so well here... (sigh).

Buck, do you not see the cognitive dissonance between those two statements? You need them, but then insult them for doing the job!

SOMEone has to do this. There is no reasonable way to fully automate garbage collection right now. And regardless of the skill level, they are STILL dealing with a nasty job and should be rewarded for doing the job that no one else even wants to do.

[Kybo_Ren]

Personally I think garbage collectors are way underpaid.

After all, who here wants that job? Anyone? You know how it smells. You know what they have to deal with.

Pay 'em twice what they earn now. IMO they deserve it.
Garbage men already make a shitload (pun intended).
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_money_does_a_garbage_collector_earn

And BC definitely doesn't suck, for some things... :D

[Mr Buckshot]

Well, I just checked the news - the strike is finally over.

/lock