[WIP] Temple Grounds

[beele]

EDIT: 18/11/2007: New picture available. (page 8)
EDIT: 08/11/2007: New pictures available. (page 8)
EDIT: 03/11/2007: New pictures available. (page 7)
EDIT: 31/10/2007: New Pictures available. (page 7)
EDIT: 29/10/2007: Map from scratch, pictures coming soon!!! (page 6)
EDIT: 28/10/2007: New Video available. (page 4)
EDIT: 17/10/2007: New Picture available. (page 4)
EDIT: 16/10/2007: New pictures available. (page 3)

I'm happy to announce that my second map is in the making. I've been working on it quite some time now. (I had some problems with the start but they are gone now.)

This will be a symmetrical forerunner map with four bases and one center hollow panel room. I still have tons of work to do, but I can already show you guys some early untextured pictures.

http://www.beeles-place.be/halo2mppics/temple_grounds_1.jpg
http://www.beeles-place.be/halo2mppics/temple_grounds_2.jpg
http://www.beeles-place.be/halo2mppics/temple_grounds_3.jpg
http://www.beeles-place.be/halo2mppics/temple_grounds_4.jpg
http://www.beeles-place.be/halo2mppics/temple_grounds_5.jpg

All the images are in 1280 by 800 pixels click to enlarge them.

I myself find it quite hard to see the overall picture of the map by looking at the images, when the map is more finished I will make a video so the layout is seen better.

[Skyline]

... There are alot of un-needed polygons everywhere. What is the poly count?

[beele]

... There are alot of un-needed polygons everywhere. What is the poly count?

I like to work "high poly", but when the map is finished I usually bring the poly count down, so no worries the poly count will go down. (3347 polygons now) And there is alot of detail work that has to be done yet.

[LlamaMaster]

Snaf is going to kill you dude...

I don't understand what you meen by "work high poly". What do you do, tessalate it then drag verts? Whatever your doing, it seems like alot more work then it needs to be.

[beele]

Snaf is going to kill you dude...

I don't understand what you meen by "work high poly". What do you do, tessalate it then drag verts? Whatever your doing, it seems like alot more work then it needs to be.

This is only my second map, and I am still learning about modeling every day, but eventually I'll get there, even if it costs me a bit more work. :embarrassed:

You guys should have seen my first map in 3DS max, it was alot worse than this one.

[Tweek]

it needs more extruded faces

[jeffro11]

What Tweek said. Look at your pillars also, the are beveled inwards but have a sharp edge. You should inset the faces then bevel in. Would look much better.

[Tweek]

dude that was sarcasm, and you just made an idiot out of yourself :fail:


also:

You should inset the faces then bevel in. Would look much better.just as shit.

FTFY

[jeffro11]

well i think it does. so excuse me for having an opinion.

[Skyline]

I like to work "high poly", but when the map is finished I usually bring the poly count down, so no worries the poly count will go down. (3347 polygons now) And there is alot of detail work that has to be done yet.
That isn't 'high poly' that is 'wasting'.

[Con]

you missed the point :downs:

it's not wasting unless he leaves it like that

[Tweek]

:D he ment he's not going to bother optimising untill it's done, and it's a good habit. most of the time

[Roostervier]

That isn't 'high poly' that is 'wasting'.He is probably doing what was said in FireDragon04's indoor modeling tutorial. I watched that around a year ago and remember him saying the same thing. He leaves it like that and then later optimizes. I prefer not to do work like that, but what one does is up to one's self. Ya know?

[Con]

same, I leave that till the end...except for frostbite :effort:

if the wasted polies in frostbite give you FPS problems, too bad diaf

[Skyline]

Still it looks like he tesselated the whole thing. A flat surface doesn't need to be 50 polygons.

[Chewy Gumball]

I'm all fine for optimizing at the end, but you don't need to create unnecessary polygons in the first place.

I would suggest leaving floors till close to the end of your modeling. You can create all your sticking up parts and place them how you want, then create the floor and you save a lot of wasted time optimizing.

You said you are new to modeling, so my suggestion would be to think ahead to what you are going to do/make in the future and see if you can do anything in the present to make it easier/faster/neater for yourself without hindering yourself too much.

A tip on forerunner architecture too: Rarely ever will you see a sharp point, like on a cone.

[Tweek]

forerunner MINIMUM angle is 90 degrees. can't be any sharper than that.

[Chewy Gumball]

Angles depend on starting points, you can't really just say 90 degrees is a minimum.

[mined]

What Tweek means is that most Forerunner angles are obtuse.

[Sever]

One will never find an acute angle on any exterior edge of Forerunner architecture.

[QTip05]

damn thats sexy. hope you finish this shit soon, cuz i wanna play. gj man keep up all the good work. look forward to seeing more from you!

[beele]

I'm hoping I can show you guys a better bsp by the end of the week, with the map layout mostly done except the details.

After the bsp is complete I will optimize it. I will also be redoing the cones to make them less sharp.

[Skyline]

Good luck getting this ingame cause I see many errors.

[beele]

Good luck getting this ingame cause I see many errors.

I do get it in-game. Every time I save my map after big changes I do a check to see if it runs in the game (sapien). So far it runs flawlessly. There are some errors but by far many, and they are not critical since tool compiles it just fine and sapien loads it just fine as well., but they will be fixed where I can.

[beele]

Sorry for the double post.

Here are some new pictures which show minor changes to the base. and as well a picture of the map in sapien. In sapien everything looks kinda bad because I didn't uv anything.

If everything goes well the bases should be ready by this weekend.

http://www.beeles-place.be/halo2mppics/temple_grounds_6.jpg
http://www.beeles-place.be/halo2mppics/temple_grounds_7.jpg
http://www.beeles-place.be/halo2mppics/temple_grounds_8.jpg

As you might notice I redid those sharp peeks and made them into what should become two other hollow panel projectors.
I know that the light fixtures on the wall look like total crap, but I'm going to redo those :).

[CodeBrain]

The model for your map in Max is sexy

:D

The texturing in Sapien...

:gonk:

[Pooky]

What exactly is this map supposed to look like? It just looks like a random heap of polygons to me, no offense intended

[PenGuin1362]

you have a wireframe that makes me want to punch infants.

[beele]

What exactly is this map supposed to look like? It just looks like a random heap of polygons to me, no offense intended

The map will be partial forerunner and "Egyptian" style. But the map is still in a very early stage. I will post a background story in the coming days.


you have a wire-frame that makes me want to punch infants.

I know, but I'm just trying to do my best.

[Tweek]

I know, but I'm just trying to do my best.
NOT GOOD ENOUGH DAMNIT!!

[beele]

NOT GOOD ENOUGH DAMNIT!!

I'm now redoing the base because I didn't like the old one.

I'll post pictures when its show-able.

[beele]

Yet again a double post, sorry for that.

I've reworked the base (not yet finished) and here's a picture showing of what I have for now. Personally I like this one better then the previous one.
The glass shown in the picture is a placeholder I made, and will NOT be in the textured version.

http://www.beeles-place.be/halo2mppics/temple_grounds_9.jpg

I've also been buzzy optimizing areas that are finished, but thats still alot of work.

A little question: In my previous map I had these blue lights. Is it possible to change their color, if yes can it be done with the tools from the EK itself or do I need kornman00's modified tools?

[Tweek]

http://www.h2vista.net/forums/h2vista_v2/buttons/edit.gif

use it.
love it.
worship it.

[SnaFuBAR]

Your polygon distribution is terrible. What an ugly mess. The map itself doesn't really look fun. I can't really see any gameplay happening. Also, your modeling doesn't look like anything identifiable as human or forerunner or whatever you're going for. It all looks like a bunch of insets, bevels, chamfers and extrudes. Learn modeling a bit more, then continue.

[beele]

Your polygon distribution is terrible. What an ugly mess. The map itself doesn't really look fun. I can't really see any gameplay happening. Also, your modeling doesn't look like anything identifiable as human or forerunner or whatever you're going for. It all looks like a bunch of insets, bevels, chamfers and extrudes. Learn modeling a bit more, then continue.

The gameplay is in my head, the bsp isn't finished but when it's done it should have the gameplay I have in my mind for it (mainly team based games.)

[beele]

It has been a while since the last update, mainly because I had much work for school.

I've been working really hard on the map the last few days, To show you guys the first in-game video, showing a pre-alpha of the map. There are no UV'ed textures present and the lights you see are far from final.

I hope that by the end of next week I will have finished the bsp and can start making textures for the map.

hjmyS3Jh4o8

All comments and criticism are welcome.

PS: small question. I made a new bitmap with a green color for the lights, I changed the shaders and stuff, and in sapien they show up green. But in-game they get mixed up with some blue color :confused:. Does anyone know how to fix this?
Thanks in advance.

[Ki11a_FTW]

It says "This video is no longer available."

[Sever]

"We're sorry, this video is no longer available."

[beele]

video fixed

[Ki11a_FTW]

Meh, its ok..but many things dont look forrunner,or human, whatever your going for

[beele]

Meh, its ok..but many things dont look forrunner,or human, whatever your going for

It will all look better when the map is finished and the textures are in place.

[armoman92]

scale it down, its too big, cqb would be better for this idea, thats why i like ASO, its small.

[beele]

scale it down, its too big, cqb would be better for this idea, thats why i like ASO, its small.

Actually you will be able to get everywhere fast enough for good gameplay. It may look big now, because there's no scenery in place. Also here the final version will bring the solution. :)

[SMASH]

Actually you will be able to get everywhere fast enough for good gameplay. It may look big now, because there's no scenery in place. Also here the final version will bring the solution. :)

For someone who wants criticism, you sure bat it away fast.

Anyways, the whole BSP is horribly modeled. Props to you cause you got it in game, but it's still horribly modeled. What I'd suggest is take some screen shots of forerunner architecture that would be similar to your level, and try remodeling that. It'll get you the feel for the type of architecture, and you can then build your level out of something other than extruded blocks.

[SnaFuBAR]

it's boring. it looks like it's just a bunch of hallways that lead to middle that serves no purpose. the modeling is mediocre and the layout is bland. if you kept it all hallways, you might have something.

[z13dggy]

i think it looks great for your second map keep working at it

[Pooky]

So, you're trying to create something that resembles the temple grounds area in metroid prime 2? That's what it looks like anyway.


Meh, its ok..but many things dont look forrunner,or human, whatever your going for

Why is it people think every map has to be "human" or "forerunner" or "covenant", and be "grass", "desert", or "ice"?

[Con]

Why is it people think every map has to be "human" or "forerunner" or "covenant", and be "grass", "desert", or "ice"?
Because 95% of the time they'll end up using human, forerunner, or covenant textures on it? :rolleyes:

[Pooky]

Because 95% of the time they'll end up using human, forerunner, or covenant textures on it? :rolleyes:

That doesn't mean it's completely imposible to expand beyond those limited horizons.

:rolleyes:

[SnaFuBAR]

well then if he's making a map for halo and it's not halo universe related, he should probably mention that :rolleyes:

[beele]

So, you're trying to create something that resembles the temple grounds area in metroid prime 2? That's what it looks like anyway.



Why is it people think every map has to be "human" or "forerunner" or "covenant", and be "grass", "desert", or "ice"?

I've actually never played metriod prime :embarrassed:.

I hope I get the backstory finished soon, so I can post it here, and make things a little bit more clear for you guys. As for the map, I will working on several areas of the map. I'll keep you guys posted.

[Btd69]

Don't take notice of SnaFuBAR, he has a god complex. Just keep working on your ideas until you're happy with it :)

Lol I miss these forums .. HAI SNIFFLES!

[beele]

UPDATE!!!

I've started all over again. I will be redoing everything from scratch again.

This time I'm not going to make a box and tessellate it, I've started plane modeling now (I've watched some more tutorials). The map layout will be almost the same, but the style will be better. The base is already shaping up nicely, but the rest of the level will take me some time to redo.

I'm also looking for a new name for the map, since temple grounds is not suitable because there are no actual temples.

I will post some pics when I have something show-able.

[SnaFuBAR]

Don't take notice of SnaFuBAR, he has a god complex. Just keep working on your ideas until you're happy with it :)

Lol I miss these forums .. HAI SNIFFLES!
lol, dude, where have you been!? Get on AIM sometime, bro, we gotta talk!

also, Beele, good to see that you're watching those tutorials i linked ya to.

[Pooky]

well then if he's making a map for halo and it's not halo universe related, he should probably mention that :rolleyes:

There's plenty of stuff within the scope of the Halo universe that doesn't fit one of those generic themes :rolleyes:

[Bastinka]

That isn't 'high poly' that is 'wasting time'.
FTFY.

And I really dislike the design.

[SnaFuBAR]

There's plenty of stuff within the scope of the Halo universe that doesn't fit one of those generic themes :rolleyes:
i don't know of anything in the halo universe that isn't halo universe related :downs: care to show something?:eyesroll:

[[EJ] Bean]

i don't know of anything in the halo universe that isn't halo universe related :downs: care to show something?:eyesroll:

If you think about it, the only time periods that any halo media shows is past ~2550 A.C.E. and a few minutes around 98,000 B.C.E. (the graphic novel). Other than that we can assume that everything in between happened as we know it. Therefore, any map set in between those times wouldn't be 'halo related' and would still be in the halo universe. :p

[beele]

I've not been able to to anything for the map the past two days, but today I'm again working on it :). And I can show you guys some early pictures of the new base design.

http://www.beeles-place.be/halo2mppics/temple_grounds_new_1.jpg
http://www.beeles-place.be/halo2mppics/temple_grounds_new_2.jpg

More to follow soon.

[SnaFuBAR]

stop screencapping. render. F9. save.

[FireDragon04]

stop screencapping. render. F9. save.
Listen to this beele, when you press F9 to render do not just 'Print Screen' and save that image. You should press F9 and press the 'floppy disk looking' save button and save it as an image it's self. Then upload that image. We don't really need to see your whole screen every time you have an update.

[Tweek]

still looks fail though, don't really see any improvements from the old one.

[beele]

still looks fail though, don't really see any improvements from the old one.

Those are very early pictures, I worked on that for about 30 minutes.

[SnaFuBAR]

Those are very early pictures, I worked on that for about 30 minutes.
So, are you trying to make forerunner architecture??

[beele]

So, are you trying to make forerunner architecture??

Yes I'm trying to, but these are just the main forms of the level.

[Con]

Kinda bland and uncreative. Keep practicing though

[beele]

Update:

I've been working on the map the past few days, and it's coming along nicely. The layout is still the same, like the previous version, but with some minor tweaks for better game-play. A lot of work has to be done, but it's getting there. Everything make look a bit big, but I tested it in-game and the size is just right.


A quick description of the layout:

the level will be made of four bases and one center hologram projection room. Each base has its own direct entrance to that room and two more indirect ways in the room. Those two others can only be used to get out of the base and not in. The two indirect ways mount out in a room above the hologram projection. and you will be able to get down from that room to the projection chamber itself.


A quick description of style:

The level will be forerunner style, but with some human touches (scenery).


Some new still alpha-staged pictures:

http://www.beeles-place.be/halo2mppics/temple_grounds_new_3.jpg
http://www.beeles-place.be/halo2mppics/temple_grounds_new_4.jpg
http://www.beeles-place.be/halo2mppics/temple_grounds_new_5.jpg
http://www.beeles-place.be/halo2mppics/temple_grounds_new_6.jpg

As you can see in the pictures, these are just the basic shapes of the level, all detail work will be added in later on.

all contributing ideas and comments are welcome.

[SMASH]

Even though it's low poly, doesn't really resemble forerunner architecture, and it has some errors, I think you improved a bit from what you had before.

[beele]

Even though it's low poly, doesn't really resemble forerunner architecture, and it has some errors, I think you improved a bit from what you had before.

I know that right now it isn't that much of forerunner style :embarrassed:, but I'm working on that now :). Those pictures where just showing the basic lines of the level.

[Ki11a_FTW]

It still looks boxy to me.. but its getting better

[Tweek]

your walls are all flat. make them non-flat.

and that doesnt mean add a little bevelled strip at the bottom.

[beele]

your walls are all flat. make them non-flat.

and that doesnt mean add a little bevelled strip at the bottom.

I wasn't planning leaving them flat :). I'm only still looking for the right thing to do with them, so it really will look nice. but thanks anyway for telling me.

To give you guys a number for how far the map is finished, I would say 15-17%

[beele]

I was trying to make some new lights, and all was working fine, until I made a build for in-game and this happened.

My nice green lights had changed back to some blue-ish color.


Shot taken in sapien, they show the right color.
http://www.beeles-place.be/halo2mppics/lights_green_sapien.jpg
Shot taken in-game on highest settings with 2 times AA on.
http://www.beeles-place.be/halo2mppics/lights_green_game.jpg


Does anyone know what could causing this to happen?

[SMASH]

idk but I like the blue much better

[beele]

This time only a small update. After the weekend I be able to show you guys some more detailed pictures of the map, for now I only have two new pictures. They show some more things that have changed since the last update.

http://www.beeles-place.be/halo2mppics/temple_grounds_new_7.jpg
http://www.beeles-place.be/halo2mppics/temple_grounds_new_8.jpg

There's a lot of stuff that still needs to be added and worked out further.

[beele]

Sorry for double post.

It has been a while since the last update and that is mostly because of school keeping me occupied.

I've finished the basic layout for the map and have started on the details of the map. This will keep me buzzy for some weeks to finish everything like I want it.

Here's a picture of one entrance where some details have already been added in. the other three still need to be done.

http://www.beeles-place.be/halo2mppics/temple_grounds_detail1.jpg

Remember that nothing is final yet and a lot of stuff will still change.

All ideas and criticism welcome.

[Tweek]

my post died with the forum reversion due 2 h4x.

basically it was try to make ONE room finished, 3d-wise. and then work your way from there, instead of having a box and adding boxes and extruding/chamferring shit.

i also had a few reasons here, but cba typing them out again.

[beele]

my post died with the forum reversion due 2 h4x.

basically it was try to make ONE room finished, 3d-wise. and then work your way from there, instead of having a box and adding boxes and extruding/chamferring shit.

i also had a few reasons here, but cba typing them out again.

If I get your point correctly I should finish one room before I start with the next one?

Thats what I'm doing right now. First I'll finish one entrance and then the other three. (the rooms will follow later)

Or am I not getting your point? :eyesroll:

[Tweek]

you are.

just make 1 room, to see if you've even got the skill to make a final-looking product.
then you can make more rooms, and turn it into a map.

if you cant even make 1 room of acceptable level, then dont bother with an entire map. also, it'll give you a rough guess on how long itll take you.