Halo 3... the Official Inconsistencies and/or Stuff-Left-to-Be-Desired Thread

[Dole]

Well, there it is in the thread title. Let's talk about it, shall we?

To start off, Halo 3 ending up being an absolutely fantastic game, and it surpassed my expectations in many, MANY aspects. Bungie crammed in a ton of stuff, and worked it in with a masterful touch. Content left out of the past two games was polished and incarnated into this game. They made sure to give attention to whatever needed it, and I am amazed at how carfeully and proficiently they handled gameplay aspects that could have easily ended up a travesty or severe backfire.

Having said that, I regret that many of the shortcomings of this game could have been rectified easily but may have been neglected (intentionally or unconsciously) due to Bungie's ladder of priorities on the eve of the consummation of the biggest video game production ever. Regardless, I can take solace in the fact that none of the following... grievances... were available for public scrutiny and thus beyond any of our commentaries:




Arguably minor details that become major peevs


Gravity HammerAh yes, the Grav Hammer. Fucking awesome weapon that was wiggled into gameplay rather nicely. My one complaint here is as follows: So we've got this huge fucking hammer that goes smashy-smashy, splodey-splodey. Obviously, it's already taken care of in the melee department, but we're still missing an actual melee maneuver... I guess we're all out of options, right? I guess we'll just have to resort to leaving the melee attack as a quick forward jab with the pommel, right?

NO, it has a blatantly (almost obnoxiously) obvious secondary attack, the GIANT FUCKING DORSAL BLADE. And not just a simple, potentially negligible blade that you essentially could just leave there for show; no, they had to give it the silhouette of a battle-axe and further embellish it with an undulating edge that ends in a jutting point at the bottom. Oh, and there's a cable-cutting razor notch stuck in there, too. What the hell?
What a tease.


HornetI love this vehicle, simple as that. Although its rocket capacity is kinda unbelievable (yeah, I know... TEH WHOLE HALO UNIVERSE IS UNBELEEVABULL, HURR!!1!), I only have one issue with the Hornet: So we've got this airhopper ground support platform, see? And it's got two jumpseats for passengers on the outside of the craft, follow?

Now, these jumpseats trail somewhat behind the vehicle on either side, and any riders on these jumpseats constantly have to withstand a vertical heated jetstream from the pylon turbines and horizontal wind-tunnel forces from the forward flight of the vehicle at noteworthy heights and speeds considering its size. So at the end of the day, we're at least going to have these hapless passengers grab some kind of handhold bar to prevent them from falling a minimum of thirty feet straight down... right? Ffs, even the 40 mph Scorpion's jumpseats have a handhold of sorts. The Hornet just didn't make sense here.


The ArbiterGreat character, looked great in Halo 3. Considering how admittedly (by Bungie themselves) haphazard H2's production was, you'd think the Arbiter's war cry or wail of pain or whatever sounded kinda goofy because it wasn't fully polished by the guys in the audio department, right? Well I don't know what the hell that answer is, but one way or the other it was still in Halo 3. Gfg.

The Brutes can roar, Elites have had awesome voice work since the first game, and Keith David's voice is perfect for the character. Are you telling me they couldn't put a little more effort into this? I mean, he's just killed the Prophet of Truth and it's a resounding moment of triumph in the story's progression, and long behold he sounds like a thirty-year old with autism moaning for the jar of cookies. I was pretty disappointed there.


Energy SwordYeah, yeah, the Energy Sword. Everyone's already heard me complain in the past that it didn't have any awesome nimbus particles reminiscent of the Halo Wars trailer or the H2-E3-03 Demo. Well, it ended up looking alright (alright; not spectacular) and I'm not at all concerned with how it ended up. In fact I'm quite pleased; it was an improvement on what ended up in H2, it was much more polished, and it was unique against Halo Wars and pre-H2.

However, particles are nonetheless the focus of my ranting. Yes, particles. Bungie has revamped every particle in the game to the point of commanding awe. They've spared no expenses in making old ones look new and making new ones look equally stunning. Couple that with the fact that they added a particle for every conceivable niche it could be applied to in the game. Then return to the scene where Truth is killed, and...

There is an apparent lack of any conceivable attempt at an effort to try and embellish some sort of deactivation energy flourish for the Sword in any capacity. It just poofs into nowhere... sans the 'poof'. The Energy Shields of all kinds have the deactivation flourish, in Halo 1 the Sword had a nice flourish, and in Halo 2 (Another Day at the Beach) the Sword had a great flourish. And then of course it looks kinda goofy when the Sword is pulled out of Truth, but that's not a fundamental problem. Of all the particle uses in the game, this is where they skimp out? I don't get it.




The not-so-important, but still addressable "WTF's"

TruthMichael Wincott as Truth = Awesome Possum
Terence Stamp as Truth = Ditto

However, the fact that the essence of Truth takes a complete U-turn from being the cool and canny personage from Halo 2 to being the zealous, frenetic, deluded, borderline-clinically-insane mockup conglomerate of the since-killed-off Regret and Mercy with a completely different voice (as in, he had a voice box transplant with a chain-smoking seventy year old from the other side of the galaxy) character he is in Halo 3 doesn't make any sense at all.

Stamp brought a lot to the character, but it's a major rupture for continuity's sake, and let's face it... I miss Wincott. :(


Carrying / Deploying / or Collapsing TurretsWhen they introduced turrets in Halo 2 and had NPC's carrying and deploying them, it was almost a sure shot that the player would get to try that out in Halo 3. Yeah, we got two things for the price of one in lieu of this ability (Autoturret and Support Weapons), but it's still sad to have had only a taste of honey when we were staring at the whole beehive.


Limp-body PhysicsThey were a funky novelty in Halo 2, and even though it was a buggy system, nobody gave a shit because you could get some great laughs out of it from time to time. Now it's Halo 3, and it's just irritating goofyness. It seemingly hasn't seen any much-needed improvement or fine-tuning since H2. *sigh*

The bodies are too limp; they just flop around and slide over the ground (to the point where it sometimes seems to be floating) like a marionette that's been lubed with a half-inch coat of mineral oil. The [lack of] tension in the joints and the reactions between friction and gravity are terribly unrealistic for a game like this.



SeraphsBungie opened pretty much all doors for the player in terms of previously unusable content. Except for this. Kinda irked me, seeing as how there were plenty of places they could've worked it in.

Graphically, you can barely even tell if they were given any love because the few times you actually see them they're zipping around in far-alienated background AI dogfights.


Energy Shield GauntletBungie opened pretty much all doors for the player in terms of previously unusable content. Except for the Seraph... and this. It could've been a cool dual-wieldable, and if they got the Gravity Hammer to work as a legitimate weapon, then dammit they could've went all the way here as well.

Considering you've already got your personal energy shielding and the two deployable equipment shields, I don't really care about this in being excluded from gameplay. I just care about it a bit when excluded from the many other novelties of the game, as it feels a bit inconsistent.


The ChiefThe Chief was aesthetically far superior in the '06 E3 Teaser in terms of the textures and bumps. September 25th came and went, and this had to be said. Did they bring the Chief down a few notches because other elements (or characters) of the game weren't up to par, or it would've been out of place with the chiaroscuro tone of the game? I don't know. Regardless, it devolved.

As for the visor, whatever. Yeah, RTR is still in the engine, but they had to sacrifice it for the sake of rendering time. Who gives a shit; the dynamic cubemaps are absolutely gorgeous anyway and are lightyears ahead of the placeholders in the Beta. I'm content.



In closing, the game is out and it doesn't particularly matter. The game was awesome and is invariably delivers supreme enjoyability. Indisputably, there will be more additions to the Halo franchise, and more to be expected.

[Kornman00]

I agree, needs moar Wincott and less Scottish accent

But I think they were talking (in the cutscene commentaries) how in H2, he kinda portrays a friendly kind of guy and not the senile crack halo addict that will anything to light the rings. Or something like that, idk go watch it for yourselfs

[DrunkenSamus]

I completely agree with you on the ragdolls. They were kinda improved from H2, as in you were pushed farther back when you died but sometimes they failed. Like when you die from an explosion, you would lie straight on your back and fly through the air and then have all your limbs move around when you landed. I found it annoying and funny.

[Skiiran]

Those Hornet seats are, in theory, far enough forward that they won't get torched by the engines, but your complaint is still entirely valid. Most of those I agree with, except for the Arbiter's roar, which I actually liked, and the matter of Truth. I think the whole point BEHIND them changing his voice guy was probably to portray that zealot-guy, instead of a laid-back dude. Sure, it's dramatic, but in the long run it's probably necessary and a welcome change.

[ExAm]

*snip*I agree with this post, almost 100%.

[JDMFSeanP]

Was it necessary to quote the whole thing then?

And where I really agree is the visor RTR, I mean are you honestly going to look into your friends visor to try to look at what you are trying to shoot?

[ExAm]

Was it necessary to quote the whole thing then?
Righto. Snipped.

[Unggoy]

Inconsistencies
Master chief can flip elephants and scorpions but still can't run with a missile pod.
Arbiter had mandible gaurds. (Graphical thing, I know.)

[343guiltymc]

I agree on the part about the cheif's armor. I was pretty disappointed with the armor they had in halo 3 compared to the teaser's one.

[Sever]

One thing that puts just about everything about cutscenes and characters you all have said in the dark: the "new and improved" Miranda Keyes. I don't think anyone asked to be commanded by an overconfident and obnoxious twelve-year-old that makes some of the cutscenes even campier than Red Alert 2: Yuri's Revenge. Julie Benz definitely should've been cast for the role of H3's Keyes, seeing that she freakin' played her in H2. That is all.

[Dr Nick]

Truth

Michael Wincott as Truth = Awesome Possum
Terence Stamp as Truth = Ditto

However, the fact that the essence of Truth takes a complete U-turn from being the cool and canny personage from Halo 2 to being the zealous, frenetic, deluded, borderline-clinically-insane mockup conglomerate of the since-killed-off Regret and Mercy with a completely different voice (as in, he had a voice box transplant with a chain-smoking seventy year old from the other side of the galaxy) character he is in Halo 3 doesn't make any sense at all.

Stamp brought a lot to the character, but it's a major rupture for continuity's sake, and let's face it... I miss Wincott.
About when The Arbiter stabs Truth, I saw something sticking out of his head that looked like the Flood, but I'm not sure if it was or not. I think that's why he went crazy.

[Masterz1337]

I'd choose the current chief over the e3 06 one anyday. While he looked cool there, it would be irritating to see that overly shiny thing the whole game.

[Dole]

It was overly shiny because it was plasma-scourged metal saturated in the glare of the midday Serengetti sun, quite obviously... :eyesroll:

[Masterz1337]

No, you're a moron. The light conditions were not at all that different than those found in the game.

[Dole]

... no shit? The environments that ended up in Halo 3 were for the most part DRENCHED IN THE GLARE OF THE MIDDAY SUN.

You're talking as if the armor in E3 '06 had a brilliant luster while being demo'd in a night setting, which it was obviously not.

[Masterz1337]

What are you trying to say? I hope you know you just agreed with my first post.

[Rosco]

I think the model was ditched because it didn't work well with the enviroments MC was in; a creamy grainy mc in cortana? No.

I do know it's partly lighting, but seeing as you don't come across desert until the ark, meh.

[Zeph]

I'll agree that most of your gripes are super-nit-picky. I'll talk about the voice actors and the Chief's textures. After the E3 music video came out, there was plenty of debate over whether the opening voice was Truth or not. Both were right, unfortunately. I said it wasn't Truth as the voice actors weren't anywhere near the same. I think this was a deeply negative change. In Halo 2, Truth was a hierarch and had the voice mannerisms to show it. In Halo 3, it was almost the complete opposite. Looking at it from the analytical sense, I can somewhat understand why the character was given this voice, but for the sake of continuity it just boggles my mind. By continuity, I dont mean jumping from Halo 2 to 3, but for the characters entire history.

As for the MC's texture, it was a simple design change. I'll agree that having detail maps pulling out a lot of bumpy surfaces looks pleasing, but it just didn't fit in with the design language at the range between the camera and the character. I mean, damn, that looked amazing at maybe 15-30 meters, but up close, it just didn't work out. It's design 101. The superbumped skin might have worked in the engines development so they could get everything to a level they wanted, but it's not something that should have made it to the retail package.

[Boba]

My only real problem is that plasma doesn't turn sand into glass. D:

[Pooky]

My only real problem is that plasma doesn't turn sand into glass. D:


D:

All the impact effects for plasma are lame tbh, they could have been so much cooler

[Dole]

^Now THAT would've made for an interesting spin on decals.


What are you trying to say? I hope you know you just agreed with my first post.
I hope you know I didn't. I did say it would've looked like that for the majority of the game, but I never said it would be irritating.

[Masterz1337]

Semantics. I think the bungie forums are calling you.

[Hotrod]

D:

All the impact effects for plasma are lame tbh, they could have been so much cooler

tbh? I agree that they could be way cooler, but we'll live without it, I guess. The game is still very good without plasma turning sand to glass though.

[Dr Nick]

tbh? I agree that they could be way cooler, but we'll live without it, I guess. The game is still very good without plasma turning sand to grass though.I love typos!

[Dole]

Semantics. I think the bungie forums are calling you.
Says the guy who stuck his own meaning on my words to begin with. :rolleyes:

[Hotrod]

I love typos!

Lol, so do I.

[teh lag]

Warning : The following post contains major spoilers.


I agree with all in the first post. Better plasma decals would have been cooler too... Come to think of it, the scarabs don't even leave a scorch mark when they blow. Talk about odd 0_o. On the subject of Scarabs, I'm also confused as to what's moving them around once you clear out the crew... though they ARE technically hunters (http://forums.ascendantjustice.com/index.php?showtopic=1717) on the hugest scale ever, I still don't get how they can still function perfectly.

Another problem I had was Gravemind's voice. In Halo 2 it was all echoy, and it had some neat distortion... now it just sounds like... an albeit deep voice. This is very obvious when the audio is reused from h2 for the line, "We exist together now... two corpses in one grave." This was in h2 when he was referring to Mercy, and reused when he's talking about Cortana. It's preceded by a h3-style line, "Of course... You came for her." There's a very stark contrast, and the h2 audio just sounds better to me.

The doors on High Charity also bring up some concerns. The style from H2 to H3 changed dramatically, to the point where the h3 ones don't even look very covie-ish. I don't see why you'd up and completely change the style of doors like that. High Charity in general didn't feel like an infested Covenant city until the reactor part/finding Cortana. (Speaking of which : why would HC have reactor cores if the Dreadnaught was its power supply... Though I guess one could argue auxillary power and whatnot.) Also, where was the blinding light coming from? flood levels are dark and scary, not insanely bright and orange.

..And still more inconsistencies - The Control Room. It's so... different. Where was the sniper tower? The design in general changed alot, most noticably on the interior. WHY make it so different? I get new art style and all, but the entire layout like that? Only the core room itsself was the same, and even then I missed the reflective glass :(. The level also was really inconsistent - the door you exit on to get to the hogrun was, in h1, the door tot he second canyon. It's these layout things that bug me; they culd have had you go through a blown-open wall or something, and avoid screwing up the Alpha Halo layout continuity. I get how the way you come in would normally be hidden by the waterfall, but why would the ring's layout be so dramatically changed?

I could also do a whole essay on Gravemind/Cortana and their interaction with the story, but that's for another post.

[Pooky]

tbh? I agree that they could be way cooler, but we'll live without it, I guess. The game is still very good without plasma turning sand to glass though.
Well, I always wished that with the plasma weapons you would see stuff like the extreme heat burning wood, or melting glass, or making water steam. At least it's not as bad as in Halo 2 where the shots just disappear :\

[Con]

..And still more inconsistencies - The Control Room. It's so... different. Where was the sniper tower? The design in general changed alot, most noticably on the interior. WHY make it so different? I get new art style and all, but the entire layout like that? Only the core room itsself was the same, and even then I missed the reflective glass :(. The level also was really inconsistent - the door you exit on to get to the hogrun was, in h1, the door tot he second canyon. It's these layout things that bug me; they culd have had you go through a blown-open wall or something, and avoid screwing up the Alpha Halo layout continuity. I get how the way you come in would normally be hidden by the waterfall, but why would the ring's layout be so dramatically changed?

maybe because they learned from their mistakes and updated it to the newest tech? ;p They have the chance to make it the best it can be with all the materials they've been gathering for a ring for a hundred thousand years, in case they ever needed to rebuild one.

[Arteen]

The doors on High Charity also bring up some concerns. The style from H2 to H3 changed dramatically, to the point where the h3 ones don't even look very covie-ish. I don't see why you'd up and completely change the style of doors like that. High Charity in general didn't feel like an infested Covenant city until the reactor part/finding Cortana.
I thought it was very cool that they brought back the H1 covie architectural style, but it doesn't make sense when it takes place in High Charity. They could've stuck the H1-style geometry into the end of Floodgate and expand that level more, then use only H2-style geometry in Cortana; if they did that there would be no problem with architectural inconsistency.




..And still more inconsistencies - The Control Room. It's so... different. Where was the sniper tower? The design in general changed alot, most noticably on the interior. WHY make it so different? I get new art style and all, but the entire layout like that? Only the core room itsself was the same, and even then I missed the reflective glass :(. The level also was really inconsistent - the door you exit on to get to the hogrun was, in h1, the door tot he second canyon. It's these layout things that bug me; they culd have had you go through a blown-open wall or something, and avoid screwing up the Alpha Halo layout continuity. I get how the way you come in would normally be hidden by the waterfall, but why would the ring's layout be so dramatically changed?
That really bugged me too, but I've been trying to reconcile that with myself, so I see it as a redesigned Installation 04. After 100,000 years, maybe the Ark's manufacturing and design algorithms came up with a slightly modified design (multiple blast doors? why not?). It's not a satisfying explanation, but it lets me sleep at night. :cool:




I could also do a whole essay on Gravemind/Cortana and their interaction with the story, but that's for another post.

Do it. I'd love to see what you have to say on the matter.

[Masterz1337]

If installation 04A was breached and destroyed, then it makes sense to have more doors. :)

[Sever]

The new Installation 04 is NOT made off of the same exact blueprints of the old 04. In fact, there probably aren't even any blueprints. It is probably all just constructed by a smart AI that had learned of the shortcomings of the old Installation and improved on the problematic areas.

[Rosco]

I think the whole idea of the change was to do with containment, last second preperations, because the flood is unleashed, it makes sense to create more security inside the control room. The sniper tower was, if I recall, useless in most cases, and with the style of play halo 2 has forced halo 3 to have, sniping in one spot doesn't help you at all.

On a completely different subject, we have no idea how the ark makes a ring, so I would definately wait for a book of some sort covering Halo 3 side stories to come. :)

[teh lag]

Warning : huge fucking post ahead.
Warning : huge fucking spoilers ahead.
Warning : huge fucking conjecture ahead.
Proceed with caution.

Cortana and the Gravemind in Halo 3.

The Gravemind…
One of my first (and earlier brought up) concerns is his voice. In Halo 2, the Gravemind had a distinctly eerie voice, with echoes and even a sense that it was speaking from many places at once – this is very noticeable when he delivers the line, “those who built this place knew what they wrought.” In Halo 3, however, his voice is just deep and loud, nothing like the old one. There are also the things the Flood forms say to you when he speaks through them. Gravemind refers to you as the “armored casket,” which very much confuses me. There are many possible explanations, but none really add up. He could be saying it in a derogatory sense, implying that the Chief is about to die, and his armor is nothing but a casket. It still doesn’t sit right with me... I was also a bit disappointed at the lack of his appearances aside from the mind interventions and the tentacles – I definitely would have liked to see his body again at some point. (Perhaps in the reactor room and destroying the cores would damage him?) There’s also the question of how his body got aboard In Amber Clad in the first place – it seemed firmly rooted to the base of Delta Halo’s library. Unless, of course, his body is irrelevant to existence once he has control of enough Flood biomass. EDIT : Sever brought up a good point; Gravemind, in control of 2401PT, also had control of Delta Halo's teleportation system. However, why he chose to use IAC to move himself rather than a normal teleportation as he did with the Chief is a bit of a mystery. Regardless, I would have preferred seeing his actual physical form. (There is also a side question: the citadel in The Covenant was hundreds of feet in the air – how did his tentacles reach all the way there?) On a similar question, how did he launch the Dispersal Pods on Halo? High Charity was destroyed, and unless there was another flood-controlled ship nearby (which of course, would be an immense threat to everyone,) I’m at a loss as to where the Gravemind was based, and how he launched those pods.


Cortana…
The first thing that bothers me is how out-of-context a lot of her transmissions are. She repeats Halsey’s welcome speech to the young Spartans during Crow’s nest, but it’s so split up that it took me a while to piece it together and realize what it was. I would have preferred it to be all one part. The lines during The Storm also are a bit confusing – why exactly is she telling the Chief that she is his shield and sword? I’ve taken this line to mean that she is his shield in that she’s preventing the Gravemind from spreading by keeping him occupied, and his sword by holding the key to eliminate the current infestation. I don’t understand however, why the line was delivered just then. The “defied gods and demons” line also feels out of place. I would have felt better if it even just had the Gravemind distortion like in the E3 trailer… just something to make it fit better. I’m sure a normal, unharmed Cortana would have had better things to say over intragalactic transmissions than that – Bungie could have reinforced that she’s not right in the head. “This is the way the world ends” is the most out of place to me – she clearly meant for the Chief to find her message, even at the cost of possible infestation of Earth. She was willing to take that gamble, so she clearly trusted that John would have been able to get her message without the world “ending.” On the note of The Storm and the forerunner artifact, what WAS the “presence” aboard the Dreadnaught? I would have liked some definite closure on that. We can assume it was some sort of Forerunner construct, but not even the terminals/Mendicant Bias subplot (which, btw, are very well summarised here (http://forums.ascendantjustice.com/index.php?showtopic=1706&pid=9226012&st=40&#)) explain it.
A bit of a digression here: For those wondering how Cortana would know about the portal/the Ark, and the Gravemind or even 343GS didn’t, I think it’s possible her interaction with Halo’s control room in H1 may have revealed it. We all know that 343 didn’t have complete control – only a Reclaimer may directly interface with the Core. Cortana, being in the core as well, would have definitely done some research in the 12 hours (according to her) that the Chief was gone. We even know she DID do some research – she found out Halo’s purpose. It’s possible that the Forerunners had a record of everything in their networks, but protocol prevented units such as 343GS from accessing such data. Though, this raises a question – why didn’t Cortana inform UNSC officials about the portal? Even Lord Hood didn’t know why Regret’s carrier came to Mombasa, and if Cortana had told him about the portal, it would have been incredibly obvious. There’s also the problem of why she wouldn’t have informed the Chief about the portal, perhaps as he was leaving HC – they knew Truth was going to Earth, wouldn’t she have made the connection? Of course, then some of the drama about what the artifact in h3 really was would have been lost… where she learned this is a bit of a mystery, as nothing really adds up. Maybe Bungie has some genius way to explain, but for now I’m stumped.
A digression within a digression here – As to Regret’s fleet and First Strike/ the Unyielding Hierophant. We know the Covenant was massing a massive fleet to send to Earth, but why then, would they send such a small fleet (Regret’s) in the events of Halo 2? A possible answer would also link to why the other prophets were angry at Regret. The Covenant had discovered a wealth of Forerunner artifact locations at Cote D’Azur… one of which was Reach, one of which was Installation 04, and one of which may have been the portal at Earth. Naturally, something as major as a portal of that nature would be a massive discovery on the part of the Covenant, something that might just warrant a 500-ship fleet to watch over the grand ceremony. That’s also something that might be kept to the higher ranks only, to be unveiled at the last minute, perhaps as a boost to the news of finding an actual Halo. However, with the grand fleet destroyed, this could be a time for one of the other prophets – Regret – to go in with his personal fleet and claim all the glory for himself. Naturally, this would anger the other prophets anyhow, and even more so if Regret’s personal fleet stumbled unprepared onto the Human homeworld. Panicking, Regret fled to Delta Halo, where he was killed. The Arbiter, not part of Regret’s fleet and before just a (comparatively) low fleet commander, wouldn’t have been informed of this discovery had it been kept secret like I believe it could have been – hence his having to ask 343 where the Ark was. We know she said she would stay aboard HC, to “detonate IAC’s engines” if Delta Halo was activated… but we all know this was not what happened. Is it possible she was being influenced by Gravemind from the start? Not to mention she claims she doesn’t want to risk a “remote detonation,” but a detonation from HC to IAC would be remote anyhow. Or, she may have been lying to the Chief for her own reasons: to stall the Gravemind and buy everyone some time. However, her line in H3 that “for a moment of safety, I loosed damnation upon the stars” would indicate she wasn’t planning on being captured, and was thinking of her own survival, to preserve the Index.

And now, back to the actual subject at hand : Cortana in Halo 3. One particular line of hers confused me. “This is UNSC AI serial number CTN <numberslol>. I am a monument to all your sins.” Why would she say that, or if Gravemind was in control of her, he say that? I understand how it would represent her full control by the Gravemind, but it just… felt off to me. Also, we know she wasn’t in Gravemind’s full control, as when we rescue here she is safe, albeit in an energy casing. Her recovery time is also a bit shocking – she has (presumably) been interrogated for the past few weeks since being left on HC, and in a matter of seconds she is back to her normal self, with no visible damage. It’s possible that she spun off a copy to “talk” with Gravemind, much like she did when the Spartans assaulted the Unyielding Hierophant, but I would have proffered some actual explanation as to that matter, rather than having to make some wild conjecture like I am now.

And now to take some time and address High Charity’s doors. I’ve given this some thought, and while it doesn’t make perfect sense, I’ve come up with a possible explanation as to why they’re different. We all know that the part of HC we visited was very packed with places of extreme importance – the Mausoleum of the Arbiter, the Inner Sanctum of the Prophets, and the Council Chambers. Being that the h3 doors are more utilitarian, and given that there was a (presumably) auxiliary reactor core nearby, they may have simply been part of a lower-level utilitarian section of HC. The H2 doors are definitely more elegant and ornate than H3’s. Still, the “elegant” doors also are in a prison section of HC, which definitely wouldn’t warrant “elegant” architecture… I guess this is just another flat-out inconsistency. I agree with Arteen – having these more h1-esque doors and architecture in an extended part of Foodgate would have been much more fitting, with a return to the ornate H2 style on High Charity.

As for the changed 04 layout - I guess that a redesigned layout to fix flaws in the original installation make sense, bit I still would have felt most at home with a copy of H1's layout. The changes amde the experience - while nostalgic and generally very cool - a bit less than it could have been.


Edit : surprisingly, this only took me about an hour... I guess I can write fast when I'm into it.

[MNC]

During Halo 1 and Halo 2, faces didn't change that much, but from the step up to halo 3, graphical changes in faces were severe, some for the better (Johnson is still bad-ass) and some for the worse (Miranda)

Sorry for blatantly responding to another matter at hand, it's just that I haven't gone into halo 3 that deep yet to understand half of teh lag's post.

[Rosco]

During Halo 1 and Halo 2, faces didn't change that much, but from the step up to halo 3, graphical changes in faces were severe, some for the better (Johnson is still bad-ass) and some for the worse (Miranda)

Sorry for blatantly responding to another matter at hand, it's just that I haven't gone into halo 3 that deep yet to understand half of teh lag's post.

Johnson was modeled off a real face, along with other people, there's depth in real faces according to the guy that was modeling johnson.

[Arteen]

Warning : huge fucking post ahead.
Warning : huge fucking spoilers ahead.
Warning : huge fucking conjecture ahead.
Proceed with caution.
I read your post and there were lots of spoilers and conjecture, but there was hardly any fucking. I'm so disappointed. ;)



Cortana and the Gravemind in Halo 3.

The Gravemind…
One of my first (and earlier brought up) concerns is his voice. In Halo 2, the Gravemind had a distinctly eerie voice, with echoes and even a sense that it was speaking from many places at once – this is very noticeable when he delivers the line, “those who built this place knew what they wrought.” In Halo 3, however, his voice is just deep and loud, nothing like the old one. There are also the things the Flood forms say to you when he speaks through them. Gravemind refers to you as the “armored casket,” which very much confuses me. There are many possible explanations, but none really add up. He could be saying it in a derogatory sense, implying that the Chief is about to die, and his armor is nothing but a casket. It still doesn’t sit right with me...
Agreed. A lot of the dialogue in Halo 3 just didn't make much sense. It was fine in Halo 1 and 2 when a character said something mysterious that could be speculated about, but Halo 3 is the last game in the story arc. There's no fourth game that will explain some of the strange statements in the game, so confusing lines just end up feeling like poor dialogue.




I was also a bit disappointed at the lack of his appearances aside from the mind interventions and the tentacles – I definitely would have liked to see his body again at some point. (Perhaps in the reactor room and destroying the cores would damage him?) There’s also the question of how his body got aboard In Amber Clad in the first place – it seemed firmly rooted to the base of Delta Halo’s library. Unless, of course, his body is irrelevant to existence once he has control of enough Flood biomass.

Agreed as well. I think that Halo 3's story was just too short for its own good, leaving major parts of it underwhelming and unsatisfying. Throughout Halo 3, Gravemind never really felt like much of a threat. Levels 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, and almost all of 7 had nothing to do with him. Level 5 felt more like fighting the Flood threat in general, rather than fearing Gravemind in particular.

As for level 8, it felt more about resuing Cortana than anything. I never really felt like I was fighting against Gravemind in that level. Sure, he communicates with you throughout the level, but you never really see him and there's no climactic moment where you face him. Even destroying the reactors didn't feel like you were trying to kill Gravemind (which I guess didn't work anyway). It felt like you were destroying High Charity once and for all, since it seemed like a convenient opportunity. Even level 9 didn't feel much like you were fighting Gravemind. Like in level 5, it only felt like you were fighting the Flood threat in general. Besides, Gravemind had clearly lost by then, and since he hadn't been a significant threat in the rest of the game, he wouldn't be a signficant threat now. His last line in the game didn't sound right for a last line. I would have expected something more "If I go down I'm taking you with me!"-esque instead of "Gosh, this is inconvenient!"-esque.

The only point in the game where I felt directly threatened by Gravemind was when his tentacles appeared at the end of level 7. Unfortunately, his tentacles don't come crashing down all around you at any other part of the game. Gravemind really seems inconsequential throughout the whole game. Really, I think that Halo 3 would have played out nearly the same way even if there was no Gravemind.

So I agree, we really needed to see more of Gravemind. Bungie wanted to make him seem like a major threat, but he never felt like it. They also needed to clarify where exactly Gravemind was and how he could get around. For all we know, he could still be chillaxin' on Installation 05.




EDIT : Sever brought up a good point; Gravemind, in control of 2401PT, also had control of Delta Halo's teleportation system. However, why he chose to use IAC to move himself rather than a normal teleportation as he did with the Chief is a bit of a mystery. Regardless, I would have preferred seeing his actual physical form. (There is also a side question: the citadel in The Covenant was hundreds of feet in the air – how did his tentacles reach all the way there?) On a similar question, how did he launch the Dispersal Pods on Halo? High Charity was destroyed, and unless there was another flood-controlled ship nearby (which of course, would be an immense threat to everyone,) I’m at a loss as to where the Gravemind was based, and how he launched those pods.

Agreed. That didn't make much sense. How exactly did Gravemind and the Flood appear under the citadel in the short amount of time between entering it and getting to the top of the elevator? There was absolutely no Flood threat near the citadel before you entered it; how did enough Flood biomass to create tentacles get there so quickly, when (IIRC) High Charity only arrived under a half-hour before? Maybe if that whole snow section was littered with Flood, it may have been more believable, but there wasn't a single Flood spore in that region until you made it to the top of the elevator. It just doesn't make sense. (In addition, Halo 3 was sorely lacking in the three- and four-way battles of Halo 1 and 2. Those were some of my favorite parts of the previous games too.)

As for the dispersal pods, I think that they may have been launched from a not-yet-fully-destroyed High Charity; a death-throes sort of thing, if not a very effective one.




Cortana…
The first thing that bothers me is how out-of-context a lot of her transmissions are. She repeats Halsey’s welcome speech to the young Spartans during Crow’s nest, but it’s so split up that it took me a while to piece it together and realize what it was. I would have preferred it to be all one part. The lines during The Storm also are a bit confusing – why exactly is she telling the Chief that she is his shield and sword? I’ve taken this line to mean that she is his shield in that she’s preventing the Gravemind from spreading by keeping him occupied, and his sword by holding the key to eliminate the current infestation. I don’t understand however, why the line was delivered just then. The “defied gods and demons” line also feels out of place. I would have felt better if it even just had the Gravemind distortion like in the E3 trailer… just something to make it fit better. I’m sure a normal, unharmed Cortana would have had better things to say over intragalactic transmissions than that – Bungie could have reinforced that she’s not right in the head. “This is the way the world ends” is the most out of place to me – she clearly meant for the Chief to find her message, even at the cost of possible infestation of Earth. She was willing to take that gamble, so she clearly trusted that John would have been able to get her message without the world “ending.”
Again, the lines are just confusing and there doesn't seem to be much room for closure. Also I don't understand how the heck Cortana is communicating with John in the first place. Also, if she could get a simple message copy of her into another ship and send it to Earth, why didn't she just move entirely to that ship instead of stay on High Charity? Besides, it would have been nice to have the enjoyable normal Cortana dialogue for a longer portion of the game, like in Halo 1 and 2. I liked having her around in those games.




On the note of The Storm and the forerunner artifact, what WAS the “presence” aboard the Dreadnaught? I would have liked some definite closure on that. We can assume it was some sort of Forerunner construct, but not even the terminals/Mendicant Bias subplot (which, btw, are very well summarised here (http://forums.ascendantjustice.com/index.php?showtopic=1706&pid=9226012&st=40&#)) explain it.

I can't say I remember anything about a presence aboard the Dreadnaught in The Storm, but I still have no idea what Cortana was talking about in Halo 2 in High Charity. She said something along the lines of, "there's a presence here, fighting back. For a Covenant construct it's unusually formidable." What is she talking about? It seems like an odd line to say if it's of no consequence. It wouldn't make sense if it were the Flood, either. She clearly implies both that it's an AI construct and that it's Covenant, albeit unusual. Is this what you're talking about?




A bit of a digression here: For those wondering how Cortana would know about the portal/the Ark, and the Gravemind or even 343GS didn’t, I think it’s possible her interaction with Halo’s control room in H1 may have revealed it. We all know that 343 didn’t have complete control – only a Reclaimer may directly interface with the Core. Cortana, being in the core as well, would have definitely done some research in the 12 hours (according to her) that the Chief was gone. We even know she DID do some research – she found out Halo’s purpose. It’s possible that the Forerunners had a record of everything in their networks, but protocol prevented units such as 343GS from accessing such data.
Though, this raises a question – why didn’t Cortana inform UNSC officials about the portal? Even Lord Hood didn’t know why Regret’s carrier came to Mombasa, and if Cortana had told him about the portal, it would have been incredibly obvious. There’s also the problem of why she wouldn’t have informed the Chief about the portal, perhaps as he was leaving HC – they knew Truth was going to Earth, wouldn’t she have made the connection? Of course, then some of the drama about what the artifact in h3 really was would have been lost… where she learned this is a bit of a mystery, as nothing really adds up. Maybe Bungie has some genius way to explain, but for now I’m stumped.
That all makes the most sense, but still doesn't add up. I don't know where she would have gotten the information otherwise. Unless Bungie proves otherwise, I think that it's an inconsistency in the story, like the Arbiter telling Half-Jaw that counselors were murdered by the Brutes when that was not otherwise shown or mentioned in the game (IIRC), not to mention that the counselors were cells, alive later on in the very same level.


A digression within a digression here – As to Regret’s fleet and First Strike/ the Unyielding Hierophant. We know the Covenant was massing a massive fleet to send to Earth, but why then, would they send such a small fleet (Regret’s) in the events of Halo 2? A possible answer would also link to why the other prophets were angry at Regret. The Covenant had discovered a wealth of Forerunner artifact locations at Cote D’Azur… one of which was Reach, one of which was Installation 04, and one of which may have been the portal at Earth. Naturally, something as major as a portal of that nature would be a massive discovery on the part of the Covenant, something that might just warrant a 500-ship fleet to watch over the grand ceremony. That’s also something that might be kept to the higher ranks only, to be unveiled at the last minute, perhaps as a boost to the news of finding an actual Halo. However, with the grand fleet destroyed, this could be a time for one of the other prophets – Regret – to go in with his personal fleet and claim all the glory for himself. Naturally, this would anger the other prophets anyhow, and even more so if Regret’s personal fleet stumbled unprepared onto the Human homeworld. Panicking, Regret fled to Delta Halo, where he was killed. The Arbiter, not part of Regret’s fleet and before just a (comparatively) low fleet commander, wouldn’t have been informed of this discovery had it been kept secret like I believe it could have been – hence his having to ask 343 where the Ark was.
Another blurry story detail. I hope Bungie has some explanation.


We know she said she would stay aboard HC, to “detonate IAC’s engines” if Delta Halo was activated… but we all know this was not what happened. Is it possible she was being influenced by Gravemind from the start? Not to mention she claims she doesn’t want to risk a “remote detonation,” but a detonation from HC to IAC would be remote anyhow. Or, she may have been lying to the Chief for her own reasons: to stall the Gravemind and buy everyone some time. However, her line in H3 that “for a moment of safety, I loosed damnation upon the stars” would indicate she wasn’t planning on being captured, and was thinking of her own survival, to preserve the Index.

I call plot hole, unless Bungie proves otherwise.


And now, back to the actual subject at hand : Cortana in Halo 3. One particular line of hers confused me. “This is UNSC AI serial number CTN <numberslol>. I am a monument to all your sins.” Why would she say that, or if Gravemind was in control of her, he say that? I understand how it would represent her full control by the Gravemind, but it just… felt off to me. Also, we know she wasn’t in Gravemind’s full control, as when we rescue here she is safe, albeit in an energy casing. Her recovery time is also a bit shocking – she has (presumably) been interrogated for the past few weeks since being left on HC, and in a matter of seconds she is back to her normal self, with no visible damage. It’s possible that she spun off a copy to “talk” with Gravemind, much like she did when the Spartans assaulted the Unyielding Hierophant, but I would have proffered some actual explanation as to that matter, rather than having to make some wild conjecture like I am now.
Another blurry story detail. I hope Bungie has some explanation. I think I'm repeating myself.


And now to take some time and address High Charity’s doors. I’ve given this some thought, and while it doesn’t make perfect sense, I’ve come up with a possible explanation as to why they’re different. We all know that the part of HC we visited was very packed with places of extreme importance – the Mausoleum of the Arbiter, the Inner Sanctum of the Prophets, and the Council Chambers. Being that the h3 doors are more utilitarian, and given that there was a (presumably) auxiliary reactor core nearby, they may have simply been part of a lower-level utilitarian section of HC. The H2 doors are definitely more elegant and ornate than H3’s. Still, the “elegant” doors also are in a prison section of HC, which definitely wouldn’t warrant “elegant” architecture… I guess this is just another flat-out inconsistency. I agree with Arteen – having these more h1-esque doors and architecture in an extended part of Foodgate would have been much more fitting, with a return to the ornate H2 style on High Charity.
I agree with you (agreeing with me, no less). It just doesn't make sense. Floodgate could have been longer anyway, and I wouldn't have minded a shorter Cortana.


As for the changed 04 layout - I guess that a redesigned layout to fix flaws in the original installation make sense, bit I still would have felt most at home with a copy of H1's layout. The changes amde the experience - while nostalgic and generally very cool - a bit less than it could have been.

At least the hallways in the level were sexy, even though the actual layout of the blue room was simpler (i.e. worse) than in Halo 1. At least it worked for nostalgia purposes.

[Bastinka]

O_o;
Spoiler tags haha.

[Masterz1337]

The line "This is UNSC AI serial number CTN <numberslol>. I am a monument to all your sins.” is Gravemnd speaking throgh Cortana. The screen is tintied a purpleish green, rather than the normal purple or Gravemind green.

[Arteen]

The line "This is UNSC AI serial number CTN <numberslol>. I am a monument to all your sins.” is Gravemnd speaking throgh Cortana. The screen is tintied a purpleish green, rather than the normal purple or Gravemind green.
Oh really? I never noticed that before. I'll have to check it out sometime. Would it be a parallel situation to Gravemind controlling Mendicant Bias? I still don't fully understand why she (they) says that line though.

[Dole]

Johnson was modeled off a real face, along with other people, there's depth in real faces according to the guy that was modeling johnson.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and surmise that that reference was Keith David. Given, Johnson has a different face, but in Halo 3 he has the same accentuated facial features as Keith.

Maybe with the movie they'll pull a Predator with Johnson and the Arbiter. (in Predator, the guy who played the alien was also the helicopter pilot in the end of the movie)

[Hotrod]

Maybe with the movie they'll pull a Predator with Johnson and the Arbiter. (in Predator, the guy who played the alien was also the helicopter pilot in the end of the movie)

Are you talking about the Halo movie? The one that has been canceled?

[Huero]

it's back on again

[Hotrod]

it's back on again

Really? Where does it say that?

[MNC]

It's not on again, but Jackson is still trying to revive it.

Also, I'd really like to see some pictures of the voices behind Halo. Jen Taylor, and Keith Davids are easy to find (KD especially because of Mass Effect) and Steve Downes was a senior guy, but you could only see the bottom half of his face...

[Masterz1337]

Oh really? I never noticed that before. I'll have to check it out sometime. Would it be a parallel situation to Gravemind controlling Mendicant Bias? I still don't fully understand why she (they) says that line though.
I'd assume to show that she is being slowly corrupted and in danger.

"I have defied Gods and Demons" is another things the Gravemind says through her. The Gravemind has defied the Forerunner, and it has defied the Chief (Demon).

[TeeKup]

One part confused the living hell out of me.

We all remember this cutscene:
"Now the gate has been unlatched, headstones pushed aside,
Corpses shift and offer room--A fate you must abide!!!"

After that I proceeded to look down, that was a good 25+ mile drop, how the hell did those tentacles get that far?

[Dole]

Maybe he's able to create portals that he reaches through using the teleportation grid? Or maybe he teleported up there and managed to stuff his entire body mass into the structure?


Are you talking about the Halo movie? The one that has been canceled?
It wasn't cancelled in the sense that it was scrapped never to see the light of day, it's just stagnant right now as they cycle through new production companies (as has been the case since... early '05). Besides, do you really think Weta would be sanctioned to spend tons of bucks to fabricate highly detailed props large-and-small just for three [kinda] viral H3 ads?

[leorimolo]

Gravemind is a Forerunner

[ExAm]

It's not on again, but Jackson is still trying to revive it.

Also, I'd really like to see some pictures of the voices behind Halo. Jen Taylor, and Keith Davids are easy to find (KD especially because of Mass Effect) and Steve Downes was a senior guy, but you could only see the bottom half of his face...
Here's a link to an interview with Steve Downes (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/SteveDownes.jpg&imgrefurl=http://buttonbasher.wordpress.com/2006/07/27/interview-master-chief-steve-downes/&h=308&w=408&sz=85&hl=en&start=1&sig2=Q3ro4B_oTP99VuRKoeVziQ&tbnid=JPlxlmH3QI53FM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=125&ei=WOAnR4a8GKHqhwLm9PS0DA&prev=/images&#37;3Fq%3Dsteve%2Bdownes%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10 %26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG), and there's a thumb of his face in the frame at the top. If you click it, it gives you a 404, though.

EDIT:

http://bs.bungie.org/mtarchives/art/b-where/steve-downes.jpg

[Jay2645]

Gravemind is a Forerunner
It's kinda obvious that Gravemind is a Flood.

[Hotrod]

Gravemind is a Forerunner

Ummm... no... Have you played Halo 2 or Halo 3? The Gravemind is the "leader" or the "brain" of the flood. Where did you even get the idea it was Forerunner?

[Dole]

Here's a link to an interview with Steve Downes (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/SteveDownes.jpg&imgrefurl=http://buttonbasher.wordpress.com/2006/07/27/interview-master-chief-steve-downes/&h=308&w=408&sz=85&hl=en&start=1&sig2=Q3ro4B_oTP99VuRKoeVziQ&tbnid=JPlxlmH3QI53FM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=125&ei=WOAnR4a8GKHqhwLm9PS0DA&prev=/images&#37;3Fq%3Dsteve%2Bdownes%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10 %26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG), and there's a thumb of his face in the frame at the top. If you click it, it gives you a 404, though.
http://rampancy.net/rampancy_files/images/a2682a42643f48ff2822894bf697aed3-9673_0.jpg http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/7555/reallifemasterchief8tn.gif

[FRain]

Weirdness:

In the official H3 manual, (comes with Plastic Edition, I think) it says that the spiker has 48 bullets and the pistol has 12.....

WTF.


The pistol has 8 shots, and the spiker has 40?

What happened now?

[Pooky]

The Pistol. It's a completely ridiculous and unrealistic weapon. I've never encountered in my life a handgun that fires that slowly for such little stopping power, plus it still has the nub on the end but mysteriously no scope. And the animations suck.

[teh lag]

The Pistol. It's a completely ridiculous and unrealistic weapon. I've never encountered in my life a handgun that fires that slowly for such little stopping power, plus it still has the nub on the end but mysteriously no scope. And the animations suck.

^

I've found it to be my least favorite weapon of all. At the very least, Halo 2's Magnum had a high ROF, but this one has a low ROF, no scope (but it's there wtf, like you said), and I haven't seen it to have a fair amount of damage to balance it out. something there needs to change, because I've never found myself swapping for a pistol, only from it.

[Dole]

In each addition to the Halo series, Bungie finds a new way to anathemize the M6 sideearms. :p

Bastard child of a Sniper Rifle and a Rocket Launcher in H1.
H1 AR with refined accuracy, but one-fifth the magazine capacity in H2.
Utterly neglegible stopping power and RPM in Halo 3. Let's go!

[Sever]

The only advantageous time to equip the H3 pistol is when dual wielding a Plasma Pistol. Thats about it.

[Masterz1337]

I use pistols and get killing sprees all the time. Me thinks you all suck with it.

[ICEE]

k i didnt read the entire thread so sue me, but heres a few things that disgust me.

elites
~~~~~~

INCAPABLE of using gravity hammers. they can hold them, but wont swing.
when they have a PR and sit in the hornet passenger seat, the rifle floats in midair while the arms play hide and seek. NO GOLD ELITES!


brutes
~~~~
to easy. nuff sed


marines
~~~~~
dumb as hell! they cant shoot for shit with a spartan laser.

the arbiter
~~~~~~~
cannot use grav hammers, will not use a sniper rifle, and is retarded.

cortana
~~~~~~

how did her tits suddenly become huge? no complaints overall :D


prophet of truth
~~~~~~~~~~~
his voice changed more sudden then a 12 year old boys. also, he holds a spiker rifle like a fag


sergeant johnson
~~~~~~~~~~~
he suddenly became less black. his skin is like half as dark as it was in h2


animations
~~~~~~~~
the shotgun doesnt return to the same frame as it starts with in one of its melees
the smg melee animation makes the plate on the chiefs hand pass through his arm
pistol just looks wierd.
the BR and the AR have the exact same animations, and the carbine, beam rifle, AR, and BR all have the same horizontal melee
splazer and rocket launcher have the same animations (aside from ready)

overall, im not displeased with halo 3. the things that bother me the most are about the elites and the arbiter.

[Masterz1337]

You're a fool when it comes to animations Ironclad.

[Arteen]

Yeah, the pistol is pretty much insignificant and useless in H3, just like it was in H2. I don't know what Bungie was thinking.

And speaking of Bungie and questionable design decisions, Cortana; it's just god-awful. It's an affront to nearly every design principle of good gameplay. (*proceeds goes off on a rant about the level, in spoiler tags due to length*)

First off, why is it impossible to just melee infection forms? You could do that in Halo 1, and it made them at least manageable. In Halo 2, it became extremely difficult, but at the very least, you could kill them (with no battery loss IIRC) with the sword. In Halo 3, you can't even do that. The only way to kill them is to shoot or grenade them. They're just a tedious pain and not fun at all because the player doesn't have any reliable, effective way to handle them, so if they swarm you all you can do is just run away until your shields recharge and let them kill themselves by jumping at your shield. Not fun.

Second, it's full of narrow corridors. Fighting a lot of enemies tha swarm you is not fun when you have no decent area to move. This is what makes Library a far better level than Cortana. Remember the one long corridor area in Cortana (there's a flamethrower nearby)? The player doesn't have that much room to move or to take cover (especially with those awful ranged forms in every corner), so the only effective way to clear that area is to take it very slowly, one Flood at a time. Not fun.

Third, the layout is incredibly unintuitive. Every single area in the level looks like every other, so it's easy to get turned around until the game finally decides to show you a waypoint. Also, lots of the paths to the next areas are more or less hidden away, making it easier to get lost and confused and frustrated. Probably the worst area in the level in this regard is the one multi-tiered room where you enter through a room in ths the top. There's only one path to the top, and it isn't clearly marked. I had a very difficult time finding my way around that room the first few times I played that level. Seriously, it shouldn't take the player three or four runs through the level just to figure out how to navigate a room.

Fourth, you get to do it all again, backwards. Even though Bungie had a much better (so they way) production schedule for Halo 3, their single player campaign is not only short, but nearly every level features a significant amount of recycled environments and going back through the same areas. Their abridged Halo 2 that they had to redo halfway through production had much less recycled content and a significantly longer campaign. They really have no excuse. Crow's Nest is essentially running around in circles for a while with no good sense of direction. In The Storm, the player fights in two identical rooms. Sure, the battles are different, but the room has an uncanny, distasteful feel to it. Then you fight through the same areas again in the very next level. The Covenant features a lot of going there and back when disabling the shield. And in Cortana, halfway through the level, you turn around and go in reverse. It's ridiculous. It's annoying. It's not fun. Considering the entire first half is the same tedious battles over and over, why would I want to go through that all again?

Fifth, the Flood are not interesting to fight. They aren't intelligent, they don't use any strategy other than rushing the player, they don't use their weapons with any regard to what that weapon actually is, and they are not rewarding to kill. Infection forms, as I've covered, are unmanageable so they are simply frustrating. Although I welcome the variation, all the combat forms are more-or-less the same, but since their attack strategy (rush the player) is the same and they attack the same way, they don't do much for gameplay variety. Carrier forms are alright except for the issues associated with infection forms. As for the crawling pure forms, there's really nothing fun about them. All they do is run scatter about in such a way that the player has a difficult time actually killing them, making it just as efficient if the player simply stands still until one of them comes towards him so he can melee it. Tank forms are alright, but they're simply frustrating when 3 or more of them appear at once, since they take so much ammo to kill (yet sticking them with a grenade kills them instantly?). Ranged forms are a pain in the ass. They just shoot way too much and too far, making it very difficult for the player to kill them (very few ranged weapons in the level, and none of them are that effective to begin with). They can crawl everywhere, and they often appear in groups, so they're just frustrating and not fun.

Flood aren't necessarily totally incompatible with fun. They can be fun to fight under the right conditions. They're fun in short bursts (e.g. sort-of 343GS, High Charity, sort-of Floodgate, sort-of Halo(H3)), when the player has room to move (e.g. Library in comparison to Cortana), or when there's a multi-way war going on (e.g. Two Betrayals, Keyes, The Maw, High Charity). The Halo 3 versions of the combat forms are the best and most fun versions of the Flood in the trilogy and can be fun to fight under the right circumstances, but Cortana fails every one of them. I'm disappointed that there was no level in Halo 3 which significantly featured Humans vs Covenant vs Flood (vs Sentinels) like in Halo 1 and Halo 2. Those types of levels are what made the Flood redeemable as enemies in the games. Fighting just the Flood just isn't fun.

Sixth, was Bungie just outright ignoring how nobody would like the level? All of the issues with Cortana had been brought up multiple times as significant issues from the previous games. Lots of people don't like to fight the Flood. Lots of people have issues with repetitive environments and the pathfinding issues related to it. Lots of people don't like fighting the same battles over and over. Lots of people has issues with the tightness and too-simplistic level design of Halo 2 (i.e. not enough "options" or ways to tackle many of the rooms; this is a noticeable issue in Uprising, to name a specific level). Nearly everyone hates the Library because it's repetitive and it's the same unintelligent enemies over and over and over. Bungie should know that it was a mistake, so they shouldn't have blatantly repeated it (not just that, but they made it even worse) with Cortana. Of course, the level was pretty disgusting-looking too. Who would want to play in an area like that, much less a whole level? While playing through campaign the first time, I remarked to my co-op partner (and she shared my opinion) that I was thankful that I didn't have to do any fighting in the disgusting Floodified ship at the end of Floodgate. Oh, I was so naïve.

Seventh, since Bungie loves that number and apparently hates happiness, if Gravemind was the last major threat, why was I able to get in and out of High Charity without him ever actually materializing any sort of direct threat? If I'm going to be stuck inside that disgusting level fighting Flood over and over, they could at least make it a bit more interesting and give Gravemind some direct relevance to the level. Except for the (rather minor) attept by a tentacle to grab the Pelican in the end cutscene, Gravemind never directly effects anything in the leve. Why is the worst thing Gravemind could do to me is inconvenience me with conversation? You 'd think his tentacles would come crashing down in various parts of the level or something? He was essentially a non-factor in the level, letting the level be even more boring than it should have been.

That felt good. I have even more that I could rant about, but I'll stop for now.

Also, the needler need more ammo! It's got such a small ammo capacity (relative to how much ammo it takes to kill) and it isn't all that common, so it always ends up running out of ammo after two or three kills.


elites
~~~~~~

INCAPABLE of using gravity hammers. they can hold them, but wont swing.
when they have a PR and sit in the hornet passenger seat, the rifle floats in midair while the arms play hide and seek. NO GOLD ELITES!

Agreed. Also, I really miss fighting Elites. They were and are more fun to fight that Brutes.


marines
~~~~~
dumb as hell! they cant shoot for shit with a spartan laser.
Their aiming isn't particularly good, but it isn't that bad.


the arbiter
~~~~~~~
cannot use grav hammers, will not use a sniper rifle, and is retarded.
Maybe you should stop killing him and trying to make him use different weapons. :p

[ICEE]

You're a fool when it comes to animations Ironclad.


Noted.





Maybe you should stop killing him and trying to make him use different weapons. :p

NEVER!!!!!! THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dole]

Another inconsistency: how do pieces of the Chief's armor change if (as far as we know) the game begins exactly where Halo 2 left off?

[Terry]

No it doesn't...
Otherwise you would have known what happened to the cruiser and chief wouldn't have crashed in a simple pod. Its obviously a good while after the events at the end of halo 2.

[itszutak]

Did they offer any mention to the change in the Chief's HUD? <_<

[Rosco]

I think some of the changes were made just to make the chief look cooler or the way they really wanted him to look.

[ExAm]

No it doesn't...
Otherwise you would have known what happened to the cruiser and chief wouldn't have crashed in a simple pod. Its obviously a good while after the events at the end of halo 2.100% wrong.
He jumped off the Dreadnaught (Truth's ship, or this "cruiser" you speak of, which was concealed in a giant fireball as it fell) on his own, directly after it began to descend into Earth's atmosphere, right after the end of Halo 2. He jumped without any type of landing assistance, so there was no pod, only his armor. Landed in the forest, where Halo 3 begins. No place for him to change gauntlets or HUD software.

[Arteen]

100% wrong.
He jumped off the Dreadnaught (Truth's ship, or this "cruiser" you speak of, which was concealed in a giant fireball as it fell) on his own, directly after it began to descend into Earth's atmosphere, right after the end of Halo 2. He jumped without any type of landing assistance, so there was no pod, only his armor. Landed in the forest, where Halo 3 begins. No place for him to change gauntlets or HUD software.
From what I gather, the Halo: Uprising comic series is set in the time frame between the ending of Halo 2 and Halo 3, so MC does more than just jump of the Dreadnaught when he gets back to Earth. Why would he do that anyway, since he's after Truth? Also, if I recall correctly, there was a huge chunk of metal at the Sierra 117 landing site too, for what it's worth.

[Masterz1337]

The door he jumps with is the same one found on installation 04a, 04b, 00 and the dreadnought.

[ExAm]

Where can I find this comic?

[MithosK]

So uprising bridges the gap between Halo 2 and 3, I would like to know how they plan on explaining Keyes. She, Johnson, and the Arbiter left delta halo sometime AFTER Truth who took a forerunner ship which has got to be MUCH faster then human/covi ships. So how is it they arrived on Earth with enough time to set up a well entrenched resistance with enough resourses to rapidly respond to the chief's 'landing'? One would think the Forerunner ship would arrive LONG before Keyes and Johnson.

[Sever]

Just a speculation (and correct me if you know otherwise), but maybe the Forerunner Dreadnought did not have slipspace capabilities, only normal engines, or a lesser version of slipspace?

[Arteen]

Where can I find this comic?
Probably some store that sells comics. I think only one issue is out. I haven't seen it yet, but I haven't looked for it. Hopefully the comics are better than that graphic novel. :fail:


Just a speculation (and correct me if you know otherwise), but maybe the Forerunner Dreadnought did not have slipspace capabilities, only normal engines, or a lesser version of slipspace?
I doubt it. Since it's a Forerunner ship, if anything I would expect it to be significantly faster than any Covenant or Human ship.

[ICEE]

good points since the last time i posted here. i hope this comic your talking about explains the change in the mjolnir's hands.


also, a glitch i noticed, if you play co op on crows nest, at the very beginning before you pick up a gun, the arbiter can punch. i havent tried this with any of the other elites yet but it probably works. the punch does no damage, and there is no first person animation, but if another player watches the arbiter, you will see the third person punching animation.

[Dole]

also, a glitch i noticed, if you play co op on crows nest, at the very beginning before you pick up a gun, the arbiter can punch. i havent tried this with any of the other elites yet but it probably works. the punch does no damage, and there is no first person animation, but if another player watches the arbiter, you will see the third person punching animation.
DAMN YOU BUNGIE!!!!! :gonk:

Does the Chief have the same vestigial animation?

[Random]

DAMN YOU BUNGIE!!!!! :gonk:

Does the Chief have the same vestigial animation?

Nope, you can see the shadow of the elite move when you are in fp, but I ran through the map as Chief and nothing happened.

[jngrow]

that was a perfect post Dole. I totally agreed with everything you said, just a lot of 'little things' that bugged me.

[Hotrod]

From what I've read/heard about the comics (haven't read them), the Master Chief gets captured by the Covenant. In the beginning of Halo 3, he might be falling from an escape pod from the Covenant ship he was on.

[Jay2645]

From what I've read/heard about the comics (haven't read them), the Master Chief gets captured by the Covenant. In the beginning of Halo 3, he might be falling from an escape pod from the Covenant ship he was on.
Yes, because that ship seems to be falling really quickly, being the fireball that it was, and the Dreadnought we see later seemed to float down from the sky effortlessly.

Also, it was night when Chief escaped, day when Johnson found him. It could be the next morning, it could have been weeks. MIJOLNIR armor has plenty of life support, so it is plausible he's been sitting in the forest for a week or so. We know that they mounted several high-risk rescue missions (The Halo 3 Shorts), and it would have taken time to organize a Platoon of Marines to find him, and there appears to be more then a Platoon looking for him, plus 3 or more Pelicans and a squad of ODSTs.

Lord Hood could have established the resistance when Keyes was mucking about on Delta Halo, as he seems to have a tight defensive grid near the end of H2.

Halo 3 diorama? It could have happened BEFORE the beginning of H3, where MC got captured and taken to the Covie ship. I think the comics show the awesomeness Chief does to break out of the ship, run to the stern, and jump out. He didn't use an escape pod because there is no empty canister from the escape pod, no debris from the escape pod, nothing.

I haven't read the comics, either, so I can't be sure.

[Masterz1337]

The Halo 3 advertisments have nothing to do with the story line.

[ExAm]

Or, they haven't seen him since he left for the Ark, and a myth went around that he was captured :/

[Hotrod]

Or, they haven't seen him since he left for the Ark, and a myth went around that he was captured :/

No, he gets captured in the comic(s), and those happen between Halo 2 and Halo 3.

[Arteen]

No, he gets captured in the comic(s), and those happen between Halo 2 and Halo 3.
I haven't read the comics so I don't know the reason, but why would the capture him instead of kill him? He just destroyed Halo 04, assassinated Regret, and got onboard the Dreadnaught to assassinate Truth. You would think that they wouldn't waste on opportunity to kill him, especially since they've always been trying to kill, not capture, him.

[Mass]

The Halo 3 advertisments have nothing to do with the story line.
They do, the marine's jobs were to find the chiefs location so that the UNSC could pick him up. Thats why Johnson was there. its in the last one I think.

[Hotrod]

I haven't read the comics so I don't know the reason, but why would the capture him instead of kill him? He just destroyed Halo 04, assassinated Regret, and got onboard the Dreadnaught to assassinate Truth. You would think that they wouldn't waste on opportunity to kill him, especially since they've always been trying to kill, not capture, him.

I dunno, ask Bungie. Maybe they wanted to torture him or study him or something like that.

[teh lag]

A few more things I felt could have been better...

- Lack of Elite allies - you have them for 2 missions, and even then for about 1/3 of the mission. They were supposed to be the coolest allies ever, and you never see them in action. And when they ARE in action, they don't exactly live up to their reputation as good fighters.

- Flamethrower is all but useless outside of camping in MP. I used it at one encounter in Floodgate, then dropped it because the speed drop wasn't worth it.

- Lack of swords. You almost NEVER get the sword except in Cortana and Floodgate. I wanna slice up the Brutes H2-Uprising style!

- Jackal snipers are still a pain in the ass. Especially in Sierra 117, where ranged/scope weapons aren't very common.

- Lack of Banshee combat. You don't use the banshee once in SP unless you go out of your way to board one. Also, its firing sound was changed for some reason, when it was the same in both H2 and H3...?

- When the two Scarabs land in The Covenant, I'm not sure but they don't seem to move. At all. They turn around to face you, but in general the Scarabs seem more like large turrets in that encounter. I won't even ask where exactly they were dropped from, as Truth's fleet was supposedly decimated in The Ark...


He didn't use an escape pod because there is no empty canister from the escape pod, no debris from the escape pod, nothing.
Actually, I think I remember seeing a metal door/panel/thingy at the crash site.. I'll double check though.

As for the capture thing in the comics, I think they were trying to get some information out of him.

[Warsaw]

^

I've found it to be my least favorite weapon of all. At the very least, Halo 2's Magnum had a high ROF, but this one has a low ROF, no scope (but it's there wtf, like you said), and I haven't seen it to have a fair amount of damage to balance it out. something there needs to change, because I've never found myself swapping for a pistol, only from it.

You shouldn't equate stopping power with rate of fire, rather, you should consider what it is firing (12.7x40mm) and then it will make perfect sense. The damage it does is entirely unrealistic, I know, but that is the way Bungie decided to do it (for better or for worse). Also, there is no way you would be able to fire the M6C (Halo 2 Magnum) as fast as you could in Halo 2 with any hopes of accuracy or keeping your wrists intact, since it fires the same cartridge.

[Sever]

Of course you could - you're a freakin' SPARTAN!

[Syuusuke]

Well in terms of ROF, the pistols stopping you from firing that fast.

[ExAm]

Pistols don't have a predetermined rate of fire. They fire as fast as you can pull the trigger. The faster you can bring the sights back on target, the faster you can fire. The greater the recoil, the harder it is to bring the sights back on target.

[n00b1n8R]

what is the energy shield gauntlet? some kind of super mele or what?

(non H3 player over here)

[Sever]

Jackals' energy shield I believe.

[Arteen]

They do, the marine's jobs were to find the chiefs location so that the UNSC could pick him up. Thats why Johnson was there. its in the last one I think.
I think he was referring to the diorama ads.

By the way, how do the humans and Covenant know where the Cartographer (or Silent Cartographer, for that matter) is? It seems that it would be just as difficult to find the map rooms as it would be to find the control rooms. Well, I think it would actually be harder to find the map rooms since they both seem to be hidden away and less obvious than the control rooms.

[Pooky]

Of course you could - you're a freakin' SPARTAN!
.

[Hotrod]

what is the energy shield gauntlet? some kind of super mele or what?

Ummm... I don't know, and yes, I am a Halo 3 player. Where did you hear of this "energy shield gauntlet"?

[Pooky]

Ummm... I don't know, and yes, I am a Halo 3 player. Where did you hear of this "energy shield gauntlet"?

He's talking about the Jackal shield.

[Hotrod]

He's talking about the Jackal shield.

Ok, why would he be mentioning the Jackal shield?

[Sever]

It is one of the few items that was not implemented into the playable game - i.e. you can not use it, but you still see it in use.

[Hotrod]

It is one of the few items that was not implemented into the playable game - i.e. you can not use it, but you still see it in use.

Oh, right, I forgot that it was mentioned on the first page.

[Sever]

... on the first page.
lol users who view 10 responses per page. I'm on my second page now, and you all are on your eleventh haHA! And, yes, I do wish the Jackals' Energy Shield were implemented as a secondary device in H3. Balance issues would ensue and devour the game, of course, but after everything was evened out, it would be worth it.

[teh lag]

lol users who view 10 responses per page. I'm on my second page now, and you all are on your eleventh haHA! And, yes, I do wish the Jackals' Energy Shield were implemented as a secondary device in H3. Balance issues would ensue and devour the game, of course, but after everything was evened out, it would be worth it.

I was kinda hoping to have it as well... even as just a single-player "weapon," it would have been cool (and hella useful on levels with the flood ranged forms.)

Oh, and was I the only one who was expecting a remix of The Maw, but didn't get one? I love that song, andI really would have liked to hear it during the last cutscene. Though, the credits music is pretty awesome anyway - that rerecording of the Halo theme is awesome on a whole new level.

[ICEE]

yes, when i had a very high fever and was delusional, the ending credits music made me cry :lol:

either that or it was because id been playing 18 hours straight and my eyes were just leaking o_O

[Warsaw]

Pistols don't have a predetermined rate of fire. They fire as fast as you can pull the trigger. The faster you can bring the sights back on target, the faster you can fire. The greater the recoil, the harder it is to bring the sights back on target.

The less powerful the return spring, the longer it takes for the slide to close, and therefore, slower rate of fire. Also, distance the slide moves can have the same effect.

[ExAm]

The less powerful the return spring, the longer it takes for the slide to close, and therefore, slower rate of fire. Also, distance the slide moves can have the same effect.Agreeed, but the difference is too small to factor into my point.

[Warsaw]

True, I just didn't want people to think that there was no way to regulate rate of fire on a pistol.

[Dole]

was pretty sure they did in the books (although that might just been Seraphs and Cruisers) but I was disappointed to find it excluded from both H2 and H3, especially on the Wraith. It would've made more sense to burn out a shield after tearing out the hatch before being able to plant a grenade in the engine's generator.

Considering that the Hornet (Kestrel), Mongoose, and Flamethrower made it off of H2's cutting room floor for H3 and the Silenced SMG made its way into H2V five months prior, I was half expecting other Halo 2 exclusions to end up in retail Halo 3, like the melee combos from H2E303, weapon customization based on dual wielding (silencers and attached grenade launchers for different weapons were shown in The Art of Halo as a feature that didn't make it into Halo 2, except of course for the half-done SSMG in H2V), and selective fire as shown in H2E304.

I also would've liked some Seige of Madrigal through the 24-piece choir / orchestra ensemble Marty was so excited about. :([/selfquote]

Another thing I noticed was the distinct lack of Hunter Assault Cannons, what would seem to be the definitive support weapon, as all the nuances are correspond perfectly to what constitutes an examplar support-class weapon; it is detached from the Hunter itself as opposed to a tripod, it has a charges for three seconds and fires well-powered projectiles in relatively short bursts, and it is discarded upon being depleted of charge.

I do have one question, however. From early in development to considerably recent to retail, Bungie hinted at having MP player voices for Spartans (male/female) be customizable. Did this feature ever make it to H3's gold status, or even beyond mere consideration?

[Con]

you can change gender if that's what you mean, it changes the MP screams and grunts and such.

[ExAm]

The female voices are lackluster, and are more often effortless grunts than the loud screams heard with the male voice.

[JunkfoodMan]

The female voices are lackluster, and are more often effortless grunts than the loud screams heard with the male voice.

That's because women are bulletproof :awesome:

[ExAm]

No, I just think that they may have somehow been "uncomfortable" having women scream.

[Con]

plus its annoying

[ExAm]

Still, I'm disappointed at the incongruency of the two voice options.

[Pooky]

I still don't get why they even needed female voices. Your player character wears armor the entire time, who gives a shit? If all the Spartans sounded like girls I wouldn't care.

[Con]

I still don't get why they even needed female voices. Your player character wears armor the entire time, who gives a shit? If all the Spartans sounded like girls I wouldn't care.
girls give a shit.

[Pooky]

Then they suck. The spartans should sound like robots, so it's fucking politically correct. And they should also have an option for wheelchair bound, black, and jewish spartans. I reiterate, it's pointless.

[itszutak]

Then they suck. The spartans should sound like robots, so it's fucking politically correct. And they should also have an option for wheelchair bound, black, and jewish spartans. I reiterate, it's pointless.
:/

I really cannot comment on this without cussing you out, so I won't.

[Pooky]

Ugh, the point is, they don't need to add female voices just because some people bitched about it, if they're going to do a half assed job. It's been established that the Master Chief is a gravely sounding white guy, what the hell's wrong with that voice?

[Dole]

There is only one Master Chief. For the same reason they didn't cookiecut the character into coop, they introduced female Spartans into MP.

[Pooky]

Okay, so what happens next time some group complains that their ethnicity isn't represented by a few voice acted grunts and screams?

Besides that, they did cookie cut the character into co-op and use the same voice for everybody in the first two games, and it wasn't a huge problem.

At the very least, if they were going to do it they could have done a good job, but they didn't.

[ExAm]

Nobody complained. There was a suggestion, Bungie held a vote in the forums, and it was implemented. Simple as that. It was a fan request.

[Terry]

Uhm, because there were female spartans in the story, and people wanted to be female spartans in the game. Seriously, it's just like the girl and boy option in pokemon, it's just customization to make people happy. Nothing wrong there.

[Pooky]

No, I guess I did overreact a bit.

[TeeKup]

Also, there wasn't enough dark environments in Halo 3. :(

[Huero]

There were dark environments in Halo 3?

[Masterz1337]

Cortana (the level) would have been awsome as a dark one. Dunno why it's all orange. That's my biggest complaint about this game.

[Huero]

People bitch about Cortana, but after playing it a few times, I've really grown to appreciate its art :O

Oh, also:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/thumb/8/87/Spectre.jpg/600px-Spectre.jpg

[Hotrod]

Oh, also:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/thumb/8/87/Spectre.jpg/600px-Spectre.jpg

Yeah they should have kept it and they should have made the Prowler shoot spikes instead of plasma to make it different.

[Huero]

Spikes? I'd rather just have molten slags of metal.

[jngrow]

Yeah wtf was up with the prowler.. It's just a spectre.

[Huero]

I think they should have had all 3 in, but then again, I want everything from past Halos to be in Halo 3 so my opinion doesn't count :V
I should have been like
Spectre: Fastest, Least powerful
Warthog: Medium Speed, Medium power
Prowler: Slowest, most powerful

[Pooky]

they shouldn't have had the Prowler in the first place... it's a horrifying example of Bungie's mad obsession with giving every race the exact same equipment with different names. It's an ugly piece of shit and I can't stand it :|

[JunkfoodMan]

they shouldn't have had the Prowler in the first place... it's a horrifying example of Bungie's mad obsession with giving every race the exact same equipment with different names. It's an ugly piece of shit and I can't stand it :|

Good thing you have the choice to use it.
It kinda represents the change in the covenant aswell.

[Huero]

I agree; I think it's more symbolic. It's the Spectre with a name change, and a paint change. Not much different, but I just wanted to see an epic Elite vs. Brute battle, with respective vehicles. And the Separatists would have the Spectre. :D

[PlasbianX]

The prowler is just a big metal fish. I dont like it at all :/

[Jay2645]

Lol, according to Contact Harvest, an engineer invents the Chopper as a tractor for a peace offering to the humans, and the Brutes stick guns and a boost on it and go to war.

Not so sure about the Prowler's origins, though.

[itszutak]

Lol, according to Contact Harvest, an engineer invents the Chopper as a tractor for a peace offering to the humans, and the Brutes stick guns and a boost on it and go to war.

Not so sure about the Prowler's origins, though.
They stripped the purple off of a spectre and replace it with brute iron. <_<

I'm serious, I believe that the prowler is a brute-modified spectre.

[PlasbianX]

NO ><

http://gamernode.com/upload/Halo&#37;203%20review/ohshismall1190544072.jpg
Look at it. Its a big metal fish ><

[X3RO SHIF7]

i call it the land yaught

[Sever]

:eng101: Yacht

[Timo]

If you bought the limited edition, watch the extras DVD, they actually got the concept for the front of the prowler from a fish. :x

[n00b1n8R]

NO ><

http://gamernode.com/upload/Halo%203%20review/ohshismall1190544072.jpg
Look at it. Its a big metal fish ><

never played H3 and after that i'm not sure I want to >_>

[Masterz1337]

OMG ITS A FISH!!!! I'M NEVAR GOING 2 PLAY H3 NOW!!!!

I hope you know how retarded your post was.

[n00b1n8R]

I hope you know how retarded that vehicle is.

seriously, what the fuck was bungie smoking when they made that :|

[Sever]

Lets tally up all the fish in H3:

High Ground fish... Check!

Sierra 117 fish... Check!

Prowler... Wait, what?

[Jay2645]

You forgot the fish on "The Covenant".

[TeeKup]

If you bought the limited edition, watch the extras DVD, they actually got the concept for the front of the prowler from a fish. :x

The deep sea Angler Fish to be exact. I love it, screw all you fish-vehicle haters.

@ Xero

lol Land Yacht, thats awesome.

[Pooky]

OMG ITS A FISH!!!! I'M NEVAR GOING 2 PLAY H3 NOW!!!!

I hope you know how retarded your post was.

I hope you know what a Bungie fanboy you sounded like just then :\

[ExAm]

I like the prowler. It's a giant turbine with skids.

[Jay2645]

I hope you know what a Bungie fanboy you sounded like just then :\
WAT U TAKIN ABOT? BUNGE IZ TEH BESTEST THANG EVAR!!
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[DrunkenSamus]

WAT U TAKIN ABOT? BUNGE IZ TEH BESTEST THANG EVAR!!
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Damn, I didn't think it could get any worse than that.

[Jay2645]

Lol, in case you didn't get my sarcasm there (It was one of the more obvious ones, but still), I was being sarcastic.
NO, BUNGE IZ TEH BESTEST THANG EVAR FORE REALZ!!111

[Masterz1337]

I hope you know how retarded that vehicle is.

seriously, what the fuck was bungie smoking when they made that :|
I fail to see how it's retarded. You're just some fucking kid. What makes you think you know better than them? You realize they spend hours figuring out what is best for the game? Testing and refining it, then testing and refining again?

I don't like the Prowler either, but that doesn't mean I think Bungies a fool for adding it in a game. Grow the fuck up or leave. CMT forums arn't here anymore, so neither should you and the rest of the idiotic forum regulars.

[Rosco]

So, don't use the vehicle then?wait a sec an irony meter just blew up, sorry.

[Sever]

CMT forums arn't here anymore, so neither should you and the rest of the idiotic forum regulars.

Why the fuck are YOU still here then???

[Hotrod]

seriously, what the fuck was bungie smoking when they made that :|

You thank that's bad? Think about the Mario games... they are good games but still, take a shroom and get bigger? Jump on people to kill them?

Anyways, the Prowler isn't that bad, but I still preferred the Spectre. The concept wasn't that bad (jet engine on sleds-type of thing), but the Specter was way better, considering that it was the same thing, looked cooler and had better controls and a boost. I think that most of us agree that the game would have been better without the Prowler, and with the Spectre.

[Pooky]

You realize they spend hours figuring out what is best for the game? Testing and refining it, then testing and refining again?

I have a hard time imagining it took a lot of effort to take the Spectre (which may I remind you is nothing more than a clone of the warthog) and turn it backwards, then call it a new vehicle :|

[jngrow]

I have a hard time imagining it took a lot of effort to take the Spectre (which may I remind you is nothing more than a clone of the warthog) and turn it backwards, then call it a new vehicle :|

Haha, wow, I didn't really notice that. Ouch.

[n00b1n8R]

I fail to see how it's retarded. You're just some fucking kid.
says the guy 3 years older than me.

What makes you think you know better than them? You realize they spend hours figuring out what is best for the game? Testing and refining it, then testing and refining again?
protip: i was expressing my opinion. there is no right or wrong opinions. it was bungie's opinion that it was a good vehicle. I was simply stating that I do not share this opinion.

besides, there's certainly nothing very origional about it's design or function to warrent excessive labour to create it.

I don't like the Prowler either, but that doesn't mean I think Bungies a fool for adding it in a game.
good for you.

Grow the fuck up or leave. CMT forums arn't here anymore, so neither should you and the rest of the idiotic forum regulars.
that's the pot calling the kettle black.

[Con]

Hey everyone, quit your bitching. Thanks

[ExAm]

You thank that's bad? Think about the Mario games... they are good games but still, take a shroom and get bigger? Jump on people to kill them?

Anyways, the Prowler isn't that bad, but I still preferred the Spectre. The concept wasn't that bad (jet engine on sleds-type of thing), but the Specter was way better, considering that it was the same thing, looked cooler and had better controls and a boost. I think that most of us agree that the game would have been better without the Prowler, and with the Spectre.I agree about the lack of boost, but its speed more or less compensates for that. However, one thing I always hated about it - If you tilt the left stick left or right, the vehicle leans. However, it doesn't do shit. No strafe, no sharper turning, nothing. It could use a strafe function.

[Hotrod]

I agree about the lack of boost, but its speed more or less compensates for that. However, one thing I always hated about it - If you tilt the left stick left or right, the vehicle leans. However, it doesn't do shit. No strafe, no sharper turning, nothing. It could use a strafe function.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that. Who cares if it can tilt?

[JunkfoodMan]

What I really hate about the game is the "1st melee wins" type of gameplay. It just makes it frustrating to Grenade somebody, shoot them to near-death and then die from a few rounds and one hit.

[teh lag]

I agree about the lack of boost, but its speed more or less compensates for that. However, one thing I always hated about it - If you tilt the left stick left or right, the vehicle leans. However, it doesn't do shit. No strafe, no sharper turning, nothing. It could use a strafe function.

I was really pissed when I found out it can't strafe, but somehow can tilt. I just don't get why you'd have one without the other... a strafe would at the very least make it feel better. There's a really odd feeling you get when you go left on the thumbstick, and the thing tilts but doesn't move at all. The only time I've found myself using the Prowler is in The Ark where the 2 passenger seats make it nice to drive around with marines holding an RL and sniper.

[Con]

What I really hate about the game is the "1st melee wins" type of gameplay. It just makes it frustrating to Grenade somebody, shoot them to near-death and then die from a few rounds and one hit.
It's not first melee wins at all, in fact I wish it was. If two people melee each other within a certain amount of time, the one with the least amount of health dies. It's honestly retarded. So you could be almost dead, but blast a guy's shields away and make a perfect melee, but you still die because he meleed you a 1 second later and you had less health.

watch this:
WU0q2g_PV5A

[JunkfoodMan]

Wow. Thanks for that. This is why I'm more of a grenade person.

[Pooky]

That's completely retarded how far he went flying.

[Con]

Yeah, I hate how far bodies go flying when meleed. It's so dumb looking, but bungie seems to think it's entertaining. keep that shit out of halo plox

[jngrow]

I don't really notice the bodies go flying thing that much. But yeah, the melee system is wonky.

[Hotrod]

Well, it sort of makes sense that they fly a bit, right? I mean, Spartans can easily flip a 66 ton tank, so they can obviously throw a half-ton man/woman/alien across a room, right? I do agree that they shouldn't fly that far though.

[Pooky]

Well, it sort of makes sense that they fly a bit, right? I mean, Spartans can easily flip a 66 ton tank, so they can obviously throw a half-ton man/woman/alien across a room, right? I do agree that they shouldn't fly that far though.

Keyword there is 'throw'.

[Hotrod]

Keyword there is 'throw'.

Well, if you get hit by somebody that strong, I'm sure that you will fly at least a bit. In plus, I rarely fly far when I get meleed.

[TeeKup]

The only time I've found myself using the Prowler is in The Ark where the 2 passenger seats make it nice to drive around with marines holding an RL and sniper.

I was able to give both my passengers Fuel Rod Cannons, it was basically a gunship. I kept it after the Dawn landed too. Pure ownage. :-3

[ExAm]

I was able to give both my passengers Fuel Rod Cannons, it was basically a gunship. I kept it after the Dawn landed too. Pure ownage. :-3Yeah, well I had mine with Spartan Lasers (http://www.bungie.net/stats/halo3/screenshots.aspx?mode=pinned&gamertag=DMK447)! Beat that!

[Terry]

Well, if you get hit by somebody that strong, I'm sure that you will fly at least a bit. In plus, I rarely fly far when I get meleed.

No, you'd either get teared in half or fall with great force immediately on the ground. At most, they'd probably skid but fly? No.

[n00b1n8R]

http://halowiki.net/images/3/3f/Elephant_Header.jpg

What the fuck? I would have thought they'd fix something like that by halo 3 <_<

(look at the shadows if you have no idea what I'm talking about)