Piracy.

[Bodzilla]

This thread is not an Admision of Piracy, or to contain links to Pirated software. it is simply a Discussion about the War on Piracy.



Case study 1 :

>>link<< (http://www.betanews.com/article/Texas_Sues_Sony_BMG_Over_CD_Rootkit/1132596035)

The lawsuit notes that Sony's software uses a rootkit "cloaking" technique to hide itself from users and prevent its removal. Abbott says the DRM remains active at all times, even when Sony's media player is not active, which has led to concerns about its true purpose.

"Sony has engaged in a technological version of cloak and dagger deceit against consumers by hiding secret files on their computers," Attorney General Abbott said in a statement. He also highlighted the security concerns brought about by the rootkit.Illegal, secret Programs being hidden on your computer sending companys information on everything you own on the computer?
awesome.




Case study 2:

>>link<< (http://thepiratebay.org/blog/86)


Thanks to the email-leakage from MediaDefender-Defenders we now have proof of the things we've been suspecting for a long time; the big record and movie labels are paying professional hackers, saboteurs and ddosers to destroy our trackers.Companys employing Hackers to destroy programs accross the net?
awesome.



Case Study 3:

>>link<< (http://www.h2vista.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4821&highlight=battlefield)

I'd just like to explain my EXTREME displeasure in your product for the THIRD time. Hopefully this time I am actually garnered a sensible and intelligible response.

It has now been TWO MONTHS since I have bought the Complete Battlefield 2 Collection and I am STILL met with requirements to register my booster packs when trying to join a server with booster pack maps, despite the fact that I have registered the products nearly five times.

I finally decided to give this game another go today and found another method of registering the game, which involved putting in your Battlefield 2 registration code and then your user name for the game. I did so and I was then taken to a log in page for an EA Customer Account. I entered my same user name that I use for everything under this God-green earth and the correct password and I was met with the account not being listed in the database (I found that out when I requested my password and I was told the user Agamemnon582bc does not exist). I then remembered I was met with the exact same problem when I tried to register my products the first time, so I created the user Agamemnon582bc1 and logged in with that.

I was then brought back and asked to re-enter my CD key for Battlefield 2 and my user name online ONCE AGAIN. When I did so, I was met with being told I had put in an improper CD key.

This language is fully garnered for a situation like this, so what the fuck is wrong with you people. I don't think in today's day and age it's too much to ask to not go through a CIA-security clearance just to play a simpleton game, now is it? I am staring at this worthless game I have on my desk now wondering if maybe it could better be spent on anti-propagandistic material against your company, such as burning on public display in front of your offices, showing you in kind the treatment your product has shown me.

So, again, I wait for a sensible and intelligible answer, preferably not from some techie you outsource to India for.Bullshit, illogical and untimately problematic installation for legit users?
awesome.

all of these things leads to a bigger and greater question.
is the Fight on Piracy worth it?
Is the cure worse then the disease?

discuss.

[n00b1n8R]

I believe in try before you buy.

oh and sony has sucked for years.

[jahrain]

Good points, but there is still so much to say about the issue.

The way the industry has been trying to fight off piracy is equivalent to how catholic missionaries try to fight off aids in Africa.

I have said this over, and over and over, the more software/media companies try to crack down on piracy by bogging down more product activation, registration, restrictive drm procedures, the MORE they contibute to the problem itself because all of that ONLY effects the legitimate users by giving them more hassles to deal with, and the software and media pirates sing yo ho ho and a bottle of rum with their hassle free obtained, drm free, activation free, unrestricted software, music, and other mediums.

Its only logical that more people are going to go for the pirated versions of the software more than ever, even if they have the money and are more than willing to pay for it, but would rather save themselves the ridiculous hassles of being a legit user. Who really wants to sit on hold for 45 mins, argue with some hard to understand outsourced techie, arguing of why you want to request a new serial number and re-activate your game that you legally purchased just to play on your newly upgraded PC? That is ridiculous to impose on legitimate users. Customers should be rewarded for being customers, not punished because of pirates.

But then now the industry just sees piracy levels increasing, therefore assuming thats because they haven't done enough, and need more strict drm procedures, and more restricted product activation protocols to solve the problem. They perpetuate the problem instead of solving it, and think the problem isn't being solved because they need to do more.

The madness will never stop.

[DaneO'Roo]

wow thread over, Thanks Jah >:[

but yeah, I do believe in try before you buy, no point in forking out $$$$ for something that is complete shit for you.

I'll download a couple songs of an album, and If I like them, I'll buy the album. Most people just go by how good the singles are, but 90 percent of the time to me the singles are actually the shittiest songs on the album IMO.

[Tweek]

yea same deal for me.

i usually just pirate the game, as a try before buy thing.
demo's often dont do a game justice, and i dont have alot of money, so i just want to know what i'm going to blam my money on.

i didn't do this for bioshock, and now i want my money back for it, and that's a damn shame.

if i pirate a game, and i dont like it, poof gone, didnt waste 50 euros on it.
if i pirate a game and i like it, then off with the pirated thing, and off to the shops to get the thing, so i can go online.

there's so many downsides to pirating though, enough for me to not stick with it, and spend some money on a real game that i will really enjoy.

that's my take on it though, i don't condone it, and it's damn ironic, me being a developer myself.

[Bodzilla]

Remember guys Dont admit, or condone Piracy, You'll get Warned into the ground, as i have been in the past.

other then that Post your opinions. because i'm sick and tired of the war on Piracy.

[rossmum]

It's pointless. For every new form of anti-piracy technology they develop, some bright spark somewhere will find a way around it and post it on the net. More often than not they're still making a profit, and if anything their attempts to stop it are the cause of any serious losses due to piracy.

[Aerowyn]

Knowing the fact that a lot of these companies are practically out to get us, I feel no reason to want to support them by buying their products. If I can download it, burn it, then delete it off my computer, fantastic.

Jason and I are so bad with that. D:

[nooBBooze]

Nah im good with being a good cititzen. as long as i pay for their products, their able to produce and sell low quality crap and sue kids. also, when i pay for music, the musicians wont feel the need to actually care about their fans since they wouldnt have to put up fancy live shows. theres nothing like supporting a decadent and completely undeserved lifestyle.
yay for legal music :D


nah but srsly i prefer CDBaby over iTunes-no DRM decent Kbps and it has that kind of "were the good guys" flair.

[Zeph]

As soon as it was found companies were paying hackers to damage servers they didn't like, the game was over. It's going to court and the companies are going to lose more in the lawsuit than they could ever imagine to win by catching pirates.

[Pooky]

This thread is not an Admision of Piracy, or to contain links to Pirated software. it is simply a Discussion about the War on Terrorism.

One war is a mirror image of the other. I wonder if the war on terrorism is going to end equally shamefully.

I pretty much agree with the pirate it before you buy it idea.

[Chewy Gumball]

They can't stop pirates, so theres no point in trying to fight them.

[legionaire45]

The only way to stop software piracy is to remove the internet and all means of getting any content at all on your computer. The RIAA, MPAA, all of them are fighting a battle that can never be won. Sure, every once in a while a 80 year old who doesn't know how to turn her computer on will be turned into a public showcase of "what happens when you fuck with the RIAA", but for every person who gets caught I'm sure 10,000 songs are downloaded.

The saddest thing is that something that works is right in front of their faces: I think Radiohead (might be someone else) now lets you pay whatever you want to pay for one of their albums -- you don't even have to pay a cent, however even though that option is available Radiohead has still made tons of money because normally the record industry people get most of the money anyway as opposed to this new system where the artist is now the distributor. Maybe if the RIAA adopted this then piracy wouldn't be a concern because you can get the album for free anyway and still make tons of money off of it. Of coarse, this would require the record execs actually smiling every once in a while instead of counting their money and being general rich greedy bastards, otherwise no one would give them any money.

What will probably end up happening is that the recording industry people will have figured out too late that they have shot themselves in the foot with a .50 BMG by being such assholes.

[rossmum]

Yeah, it's Radiohead doing that.

[Emmzee]

One war is a mirror image of the other. I wonder if the war on terrorism is going to end equally shamefully.
Leave your liberal anti-Bush politics out of the thread, kthx.


On topic:
I pirate music, all the time. However, I still buy the albums. Here's why:

Most music torrents are uploaded to sites as long as 3 weeks before they hit stores. I download the album ahead of time to find out if it's worth buying, and in the case of the last 3 albums I downloaded, it was, and I deleted the music as soon as I bought the CD.

It's all about trying something that may suck before you buy it and end up wasting $13.

[Pooky]

Leave your liberal anti-Bush politics out of the thread, kthx.

Leave your conservative pro-Bush politics out of life, kthx.

[FRain]

Leave your retarded bash-Emmzee politics out of life, kthx.

[Mass]

I think what no person with power understands is that you can never stop people from doing anything for any period of time.

If you want something, you will get it. If you're friend wants it too, you will give it to him...it will spread.

When was the last time making an example of someone worked?

I swear to god, no one ever understands the concept, no matter how hard you try, how many resources you have, how right you are, how long you try, and how ingenious your fucking plan, you cannot control people.

If I decided right this second to go buy some sunshine, I'd have some in 2 hours; if I decided right now that I wanted to watch Casablanca I could by tomorrow morning for free; if I decided to kill my neighbors I could; if I decided to rape a 13 year old, I could. Sure, I've been influenced all my life no to do these things, but thats just it: influenced.

[Chewy Gumball]

You can control people. What do you think propaganda does.

[Emmzee]

If you want something, you will get it. If you're friend wants it too, you will give it to him...it will spread.
Like herpes.

[paladin]

Like herpes.
Win.

Look at the past, people can be easily controlled.

[Bodzilla]

Leave your liberal anti-Bush politics out of the thread, kthx.


On topic:
I pirate music, all the time. However, I still buy the albums. Here's why:

Most music torrents are uploaded to sites as long as 3 weeks before they hit stores. I download the album ahead of time to find out if it's worth buying, and in the case of the last 3 albums I downloaded, it was, and I deleted the music as soon as I bought the CD.

It's all about trying something that may suck before you buy it and end up wasting $13.
in australia people tend to have alot more of a Lax attitude with Piracy.

our music CD's are $30+
and our dvd's are $50-60+ (this was for a DVD over 3 years old)
and sometimes our games can be upwards of $120

if the fucking companys lowered the prices and didnt try and Bleed us i would deffinently buy all my music, and games.
It's just Extortion.

[rossmum]

You can control people. What do you think propaganda does.
Influences people.

If you don't want to be controlled, you won't be. You can only be controlled if you allow that to happen, for whatever reason.

[paladin]

If I buy a CD or DVD and rip it to my computer, but DO NOT burn it to another CD/DVD is that technically not piracy?

[jahrain]

If I buy a CD or DVD and rip it to my computer, but DO NOT burn it to another CD/DVD is that technically not piracy?

By law, you are allowed to make legal backups of any thing you purchase on cds and dvds for archival purpose. Piracy is unauthorized redistribution of copies.

[paladin]

Kekekeke.

[Skiiran]

All of you leave your motherfucking Pro/Anti-Leader X politics out of a thread about motherfucking music pirating. God dammit, that is the biggest problem with the internet today: EVERYTHING is construed as either 'lol liberal' or 'lol conservative' and never as a problem with both, which the RIAA, MPAA, et cetera, I'll bet, IS/ARE. How can I be sure of that? Because it makes money. Politicians/businessmen/PEOPLE follow the money.

[FRain]

^ What about lolretarded? :downs:

[n00b1n8R]

this thread is on piracy in general. software, music, movies w/e. but I agree on the leave politics out plzkthnx.


and our dvd's are $50-60+ (this was for a DVD over 3 years old)

:raise:
what was the DVD of >_>

[Skiiran]

^ What about lolretarded? :downs:
What, you mean BOTH?

Ohohohoh, witty.

[Mr Buckshot]

We cannot win the war on piracy, just as much as the Americans cannot win the war in Iraq, but we will sadly keep trying. Seriously, you want to wipe out major pirates, just blast Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, and possibly Thailand with napalm. No offense to anyone from those places (I myself am a Chinese-Singaporean and proud of it).

Anti-piracy programs/scripts only serve to delay piracy during the first wave of legal distribution. Every anti-piracy measure will eventually be countered. For example, the PSP used proprietary UMDs in an effort to counter piracy, but lo and behold, professional hackers managed to rip the games and run them off Memory Sticks. But those hackers couldn't do the job overnight, and by then, the games would've sold many legal copies, possibly enough to reap nice profits. If we left the issue as is and gave up on fighting piracy, then the gaming industry would be bankrupt. So while this shit cannot stop piracy, it does help a bit.

The same principle applies to all wars. You make Kevlar vests, the bad guys make armor-piercing rounds. You make super-advanced rocket-resistant tanks, the bad guys make stronger rockets. You make a super-armored bomb shelter, the bad guys just get giant bombs and blast through.

[Skiiran]

We cannot win the war on piracy, just as much as the Americans cannot win the war in Iraq, but we will sadly keep trying.
Right, but see, this is a dumb comparison. People are actually dying for the latter; the former is simply an economic kick-to-the-nuts.

[paladin]

Couldn't you pirate politics?

[Skiiran]

Couldn't you pirate politics?
Well...

You can BUTT-Pirate politics.

[FRain]

I thought you could only Pirate-rape politics.
:saddowns:

[Patrickssj6]

I think it's legal if you crack-it-yourself.

[Chewy Gumball]

Influences people.

If you don't want to be controlled, you won't be. You can only be controlled if you allow that to happen, for whatever reason.

Very few people have a strong enough mind to not be controlled by long term propaganda. It will break you down eventually, if only from constant barrage. If you have influence over someone, you have a measure of control. It is pretty easy to control someone if you know what you are doing.

[Emmzee]

It will break you down eventually, if only from constant barrage.
Just like zombies.

[Mass]

Very few people have a strong enough mind to not be controlled by long term propaganda. It will break you down eventually, if only from constant barrage. If you have influence over someone, you have a measure of control. It is pretty easy to control someone if you know what you are doing.
Yes, but even if you do manage to influence people to a point where they no longer have reality and therefore judgement, Your system will break. Control is temporary, it is a sort of subconsciencous trust, it can be broken in an instant and takes absurd amounts of effort to construct.

If there is something that people truely need or desire, you cannot stand in between them and it with any hope of long-term success.

[FRain]

Just like zombies.

It can't be zombies, because zombies are dead. :downs:

[p0lar_bear]

I think it's legal if you crack-it-yourself.

Nope. Just about every End User License Agreement says somewhere in there that you may not reverse engineer the software product, and how else are you going to make a crack for something?

While I'm all for protecting authors' rights and income, a line has to be drawn somewhere. Sure, it sucks that you're losing some money because people are cracking your software, but do you really have to go to extreme and possibly illegal measures to ensure that everyone pays for it? As far as I care, DRM is just a way for developers, publishers, record labels, and "artists" to show just how fucking whiny they are. It's their way of saying "we made/distributed/funded it, but we don't really care about it anymore, unless you want to download it without paying us."

[Chewy Gumball]

Yes, but even if you do manage to influence people to a point where they no longer have reality and therefore judgement, Your system will break. Control is temporary, it is a sort of subconsciencous trust, it can be broken in an instant and takes absurd amounts of effort to construct.

If there is something that people truely need or desire, you cannot stand in between them and it with any hope of long-term success.

You don't have complete control I will agree.

[Emmzee]

It can't be zombies, because zombies are dead. :downs:
Undead*
:eng101:

[Bodzilla]

ok lets get back on topic.

Case Study 4:The decline of online Tab sites. (http://www.jeffwu.net/?p=480)

Where have all the tab sites gone? Anyone with a battered six-string and a PC can now satiate their need for material to play simply by viewing tablatures, songs “tabbed” in an easy-to-read format for playback on a guitar, on many popular websites.
But recently many of the web’s more popular tab sites are beginning to disappear - much to the dismay of budding guitarists everywhere. MXTabs, Guitartabs.cc, Guitartabs.com, Taborama.com and MySongBook are just a few of the sites that have been forced to close down recently - but why?

The answer lies in a small organisation known as the Music Publishers Association (which acronymises nicely to MPA) which has been issuing MPAA-like letters warning webmasters that their websites are infringing copyright. But how? Popular tab site Guitartabs.cc had this to say:
“At what point does describing how one plays a song on guitar become an issue of copyright infringment? This website [and tablatures], among other things, helps users teach eachother how they play guitar parts for many different songs. This is the way music teachers have behaved since the first music was ever created. The difference here is that the information is shared by way of a new technology: the Internet…”This Newest assault sickens me to the core.

There are Millions of people that have relied on these such websites to learn how to play guitar. i sure as hell know that if i didnt have Tab sites i wouldnt be able to play ACDC - thunderstruck, Metallica - Of wolf and Man or Pantera - Cowboys from hell.
my entire ability to learn these songs (also basically every other song i've ever learnt) and progress as an artist ( i write songs and tabs myself) has been derived from these sites. Without them i wouldn't be able to play. at all.

Not to mention the fact that without these places people are being SEVERELY restricted and held back, creating less experienced, less stylized and less competent musicians. If this continues you can say goodbye to an entire generation of guitarists.
Case study 5:


>>link<< (http://www.h2vista.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4794&highlight=modder)

The following is a firsthand account, written in his own words of the last 24 or so hours in the life of FallInc.

FallsInc - When ICE hit me, they had a warrant for my grandma's house where I had all my packages sent. They had a picture of the house, and a description of it, meaning they were ready to come find me. When they were there, they didn't find much, since I hadn't had my computer and most modding stuff there for a while, but I continued to have the orders sent there for security of the packages. They went in the house and woke everyone up and watched them get dressed and started going though everything that was in my old room, and the stuff I had in the garage. They took anything that was related to gaming. They opened all the mail I had waiting for me there (which included someone's Xbox and $150 for a mod and 400gb), and took all the consoles and all console parts that I had stored there they even took my original xbox1 games, that were in retail cases. They took my 360, power brick and video cable, while its modded with xtreme 5.1b, it has never had 1 single burned game booted on it. They also felt it necessary to take all my old Xbox parts, mostly dead, my controllers for the 360 and Wii (?) and packed it in a box, and left.

They got my phone number from my grandma and they called me, but I was sleeping, just like everyone else in Ohio. They eventually figured out where I was, and came to find me at my girlfriends' house. They asked me about modding and what I did, and how I did it. They showed me the list of modchips that they collected, and asked me if I ever imported modchips from Canada. I told them I did, but I didn't know it was a Canadian site until after I made the order. They asked me how much money I made, and how many mods I've done, and how many chips I still had, and where they were and where my computers were.

In their defense, the ICE people who came to my girlfriends house were nice people, and they tried to help me make the right decision. I knew they were just doing their job, but I have been out of work since early may, and modding is the only thing that was keeping me above water with the bills. Now I can't mod, and I can't even sell anything off to pay for bills either since it has all been confiscated due to a ludicrous interpretation of the DCMA. Now it's all said and done, and I just have to wait for them to decide what I did wrong, but while I'm waiting, I have NOTHING of any worth anymore, other than a computer monitor, and my car. Because of what happened I'm not allowed to see my girlfriend and our 4 month old daughter, and last night, I slept in my car and my girlfriend sent me a text message telling me it felt like someone was taking me away from her. They took my life away. I would like to formally thank Microsoft and Nintendo for cracking down on the little guy with a soldering iron in his garage, rather than going after the people that are responsible for the bootlegs being available.
absolutely fucking disgusting what they did to this guy.



There needs to be some seriously Drastic action taken to stop these people passing and enforcing legislation of such an extreme nature.
This is madness.

[p0lar_bear]

Pretty soon, mentioning brand names on the internet without prior consent from the copyright holders will result in execution. Call me paranoid, but this bullshit is getting out of hand.

[Bodzilla]

^IAWTP

just because i'm paranoid doesnt mean your not talking about me.

[rossmum]

Pretty soon, mentioning brand names on the internet without prior consent from the copyright holders will result in execution. Call me paranoid, but this bullshit is getting out of hand.
Fucking oath.

[Agamemnon]

Great thread. Just to add a little bit; from childhood we're encouraged to share with others because it's considered to be sympathetic and nice. Now when we share with others, we get to go to jail by the billion-dollar corporations who I'm so sure they're suffering from their product being promoted. I make it a case rule nowadays to first try the demo/sail the seven seas before I buy a music CD/movie/game. I first "obtained" the complete collection of Rammstein; I've also actually bought the complete collection of Rammstein. I keep my word to it if I enjoy the product that I will buy it, but, if I don't, and there was no free demo service offered, then I'm not going to buy a defunct product.

Also, to even further the point, Battlefield 2 never worked completely. I uninstalled it and tossed it in the closet.

[Cortexian]

Pretty soon, mentioning brand names on the internet without prior consent from the copyright holders will result in execution. Call me paranoid, but this bullshit is getting out of hand.
The I think we better setup a private web forum ASAP!

[Emmzee]

This is madness.
No, I'm pretty sure this is Sparta.

[Bodzilla]

i put that in there just for u emmy. <3

good post Aggy.

[ImSpartacus]

As soon as it was found companies were paying hackers to damage servers they didn't like, the game was over. It's going to court and the companies are going to lose more in the lawsuit than they could ever imagine to win by catching pirates.

We call that fighting fire with fire.

...It doesn't work

[Emmzee]

We call that fighting fire with fire.

...It doesn't work
WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME THAT WHEN I WENT TO CALIFORNIA TO FIGHT THE WILDFIRES <:mad:>

[Skiiran]

WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME THAT WHEN I WENT TO CALIFORNIA TO FIGHT THE WILDFIRES <:mad:>
YEW BASTID.

But I still love you Emmzee.