Plane modeling tutorials?

[Longshot]

Hey all, new here.

Hope this is the right spot to post this, so here goes.

Can anyone link me to some good plane modeling tutorials for 3ds Max? I’ve been lurking here for a bit and I’ve seen some fantastic looking maps, and I hear plane modeling is the best method for map creation.

I’ve been fooling around with Halo: CE and 3ds Max for almost a year now, so I know how to fix geometry errors and such, but I’m having a really hard time finding out how to model mountains, cliffs, etc (sick of box modeling, using displacement modifiers and stuff, too).

I’ve looked at all originals Halo maps with SparkEdit, but I still can’t figure out how to model properly, so can anyone give me any tips or links to tutorials on modeling? I’ve done pretty much every tutorial on TheGhost’s website, but none of them compare to what I’ve seen done here.

What would be the best way to create a mountain style map like Blood Gulch or Danger Canyon? Just create a plane, select the outer edges, extrude up, scale out, extrude, scale out etc and fix the errors?

So can anybody help me out here?

Thanks.

[EDIT 1: Also, is it a necessity that you have to be good at drawing to be a 3d modeler?]

[Tweek]

What would be the best way to create a mountain style map like Blood Gulch or Danger Canyon? Just create a plane, select the outer edges, extrude up, scale out, extrude, scale out etc and fix the errors?

[EDIT 1: Also, is it a necessity that you have to be good at drawing to be a 3d modeler?]


loolololol

i lol'd that's not how you model... anything at all really.
my first suggestion is you rip some of the maps, like Bloodgulch, and see how they're constructed, so you can see what YOUR end result is supposed to look like. if you dont know what it's supposed to be like, you'll never get even close, no matter mow many tutorials you do.

and no, you dont have to be good at drawing, i for one am terrible with anything 2d, drawing, painting, even colours. yet i'm the awesomest 3d-mister on this site, without a doubt :awesome:

[Longshot]

Well in SparkEdit it just looks like the ground has been tessellated 4 or so times, as with the cliffs / mountains, the problem is, I have no idea how to get my cliffs / mountains to look like that.

[Dr Nick]

Spend a couple hours working on it and you might figure something out.

[Hurrvish]

or lurk moar :-3

[Phopojijo]

Awesome... always the first people to rip someone up, but always the last to actually help.

I had a couple of tutorials for Maya but they're probably not of help directly since they deal with Bipeds (for which plane modeling, albeit possible, is more painful than making sweet love to a table saw.)

There's a lot of application in learning from a biped tutorial that could be used towards making guns and other fun things. For that purpose I'd recommend Ben Mathis (AKA: PoopInMyMouth) (http://www.poopinmymouth.com/process/character_tutorial/character_process.htm) and his biped tutorial.

For environment modeling its pretty inapplicable since there's no frankly no symmetry in a distorted plane. However, for weapons, characters (obviously) and vehicles its very helpful.

Always think about how much symmetry you have. A knife or a rifle you can pretty much know everything about the basic shape by looking at them side-on (they're pretty obvious as to their width). A biped is slightly different, you'll know almost every about its basic geometry by looking at it from the front and the side (you'll need to know how broad the shoulders and hips and stuff are... as well as how far out the gut/ass sticks... length/width of head... etc.)

Just look at your body/object and think "what's the most basic way I can represent this figure." Model that... then think "okay, so how can I make this look more and more like what I want" -- a few iterations of that and you'll get something which looks pretty close. Keep going until its at the detail level you want.

Going slow also helps with "pointless triangles" since you'll be CONSTANTLY cleaning up and you'll only add triangles when you're sure that what you have is actually correct.

[Dr Nick]

Awesome... always the first people to rip someone up, but always the last to actually help.We gave perfectly fine advice, it's called constructive criticism.

[Phopojijo]

We gave perfectly fine advice, it's called constructive criticism.Its not constructive criticism if he gave you nothing to criticize.

**

{EDIT 1: Also, is it a necessity that you have to be good at drawing to be a 3d modeler?}You do NOT need to be able to draw to be good as a 3d modeler. Its harder though because you're not able to rely on yourself to make good reference images to use as reference planes.

Though you can compensate with photos of similar things and a good imagination.

Remember, proportions are VERY hard for the human brain to see without any reference image there to constrain it. It may LOOK like everything works out in your head... until you look at your model and realize "man these arms are horrible... look like chicken wings"

[Con]

Well in SparkEdit it just looks like the ground has been tessellated 4 or so times
They most definitely have not been.

[LlamaMaster]

Remember, proportions are VERY hard for the human brain to see without any reference image there to constrain it. It may LOOK like everything works out in your head... until you look at your model and realize "man these arms are horrible... look like chicken wings"
Oh man, I know what thats like. Everything looks awesome in my head, but everything fails when I try to get my ideas down. Much more so when modeling, which is why I'm learning to draw.

[Phopojijo]

Oh man, I know what thats like. Everything looks awesome in my head, but everything fails when I try to get my ideas down. Much more so when modeling, which is why I'm learning to draw.Not entirely necessary though... like when I made Rilo (http://www.chimpire.com/gallery/rilo001.mov) I used photos of actually myself for reference images. Aera too actually -- which is sad >.> And sadder once you realize that the girl actually was closer to my reference image than the dude was... apparently I have a ghetto ass.

Anyway.

Yea I took pictures of myself -- one front on -- one side on -- attached them to planes in a cross -- and used that for reference. (Turning on and off visible and X-ray shaded mode occasionally.) My computer was (and is) in a private place so I was in my boxers... clothes screw with some proportions obviously. (Funny story when my girlfriend at the time saw it :p)

The point is -- you need GOOD reference images. Be it by hand, or be it by photo reference. There are actually sites that (no joke) are essentially pornographic fetish sites -- they have people (girls/guys/whatever) with pictures in multiple poses with -- no word of a lie -- polylines Sharpied on their skin. Its hilarious.

And creepy.

You know their pitch for the website was just "Hey guys -- lets see if we can make a Porn site people can watch at work legitimately!"

[Longshot]

Thanks for the replies so far guys, but what I'm ultimately after is basically how to model cliffs / mountains with plane modeling.

http://forums.halomods.com/viewtopic.php?t=69099

11 posts down, that's what I really need to know, it honestly just looks like he's scaled the edges up and fixed the errors, but it looks far too hard to do that.

I've been following the Beretta 9000 tutorial (not done just yet), so I know how to create a plane, add vertices etc, but it doesn't follow the sealed world rules if I tessellate the ground to create a nice mesh.

[Phopojijo]

You're thinking at this too stringently.

Make the map in the method that's the easiest. Sure plane modeling the terrain is typically the easiest method (besides displacement mapping which is basically the same thing if you think about it)

Its like driving a car -- look ahead down the road -- if you look 12 feet in front of you you'll jerk the wheel too much. I find my best work comes from doing what I know and just grunting at it for a few hours.

I mean, lets be honest...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v342/Phopojijo/map2_01.jpg

I didn't have the slightest idea what I was doing when I did that.

[Anton]

The best advice I can give is to practice, practice, and more practice. Trial and error plays a key role, you'll see what works, looks good, etc. My first map I made for CE. (Exile) Sucked, so I didn't bother releasing. (ask tweek.)

[Terin]

Modeling is better with proportion than drawing, because you can match up coordinates. That's why I fail at drawing and have some decent (relatively) stuff modeled.

[Longshot]

Thanks for the replies guys, really appreciate it, I think I'll go do some more tutorials. :)

[Phopojijo]

Thanks for the replies guys, really appreciate it, I think I'll go do some more tutorials. :)Nah -- I say you try just grunting together a map. Don't intend it to be released -- but just punch away at the basics of it. Tutorials are too abstract in the akward "I know the basics but I can't apply it yet" phase.