So I ordered a monitor...

[ExAm]

...And now I realize I just fucked up.

The response time on this monitor is listed as 2ms (GTG). I read up on it, and figured, hell, could there really be much of a difference between GTG and whatever else there is? I wasn't thinking.

It's days later, the package is in the mail, and a review has been posted:


Cons: Do NOT be fooled by 2ms (GTG) GTG is a different scale 2ms GTG = 10ms BTB (the other scale that almost all monitors are measured on) 2ms GTG IS A MARKETING PLOY! BTB is the time it takes for a pixel to change from off (black) to ON (white). GTG is the time it takes to turn a pixel from 1 color to another, which is a much easier and faster test. Do not fall for this.Shit. If BTB is the standard rating for response time, then I've just been duped. I could have gotten the identical monitor with a 5ms response time, but noooooo.

Let's get to the point. Am I right in thinking that 10ms BTB would be the standard measurement, or is the standard an average of BTB and GTG, or something else entirely? If it is the standard, then 10ms is unacceptable. What should I do? If the box is unopened, will Newegg let me exchange it for the other, and pay the difference of ten dollars?

E: It appears that BTB is the standard measurement, and I may be screwed.

[yXy BiScUt yXy]

haha

i dont really know but that suks man sorry

[Cortexian]

Just return it. I'm sure Newegg will understand.

[ExAm]

Refund on monitors is a no-no, I'm told. I'm just wondering if it's acceptable if the box hasn't been opened.

[Kalub]

I would just call them and explain to the person? Then try again?


*shrug*

[Zeph]

Newegg has a section in their RMA for when you buy something and it's different as advertised. You could push it along with that argument. All you'd be out is shipping costs to get it back to them if they approve it. Link us to the monitor you bought so we can see.

and oh, dont open the box yet.

[ExAm]

I'll call them tomorrow. I've already pleaded by email as well :downs:

Here is the monitor: clicky (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009131).

[InnerGoat]

What the christ? There's no misinformation there. Go have a look around at the other monitors, they are also listing the GTG response. Its true that on/off times would be higher, but it hasn't been a problem for years now.

[Warsaw]

How do you know it will ghost if you haven't used it yet? The other reviews say nothing about ghosting issues.

[ExAm]

I don't want to open the box to try that, on the chance that I'll lose any small possibility of returning it.

[InnerGoat]

So what will you get once you return this?

[Patrickssj6]

Big deal to be honest, trust me, your eyes have 1000% more influence on how you see the picture than the contrast ratio or the response time :rolleyes:

Also, you might want to read in the first place.


LCD screens with a high response time value are often unsuitable to play fast paced computer games. The pixel response time is often confused with the LCD input lag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_lag) which adds another form of latency to pictures displayed by LCD screens. An LCD screen with high response time and significant input lag will not give satisfactory results when playing fast paced computer games or performing fast high accuracy operations on the screen (e.g. CAD design). Manufacturers only state the response time of their displays and do not inform customers of the input lag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_lag) value.-Good Old Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lcd_Response_Time#LCD_monitors)

Sorry, but do you see how stupid it is now to go by the RT? :eyesroll:

[ExAm]

So what will you get once you return this?
This (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009108&Tpk=AL2016WBBD)

Nearly identical, except for a better response time. Also, it has more reviews. Good reviews. The other one had no reviews when I bought it. I was stupid. This was the first time I went with an item with no reviews, and I paid dearly for it.

@patrick:
High response time = high number, if I'm not mistaken. I'd still rather have a lower response time. Where can I find out about the input lag, if at all?

[InnerGoat]

The one you have unopened is faster than that. :lol: There's no noticible difference between 2 ms and 5 ms in the end so whatever.

TN panels usually don't have noticible input lag so stop worrying.

[ExAm]

You mean between 10ms and 5ms? 10ms is apparently the BTB value for 2ms GTG, and BTB is the standard. In other words, if a response time is listed without the timing type next to it, it's the BTB response time, the more reliable response time measurement. The other monitor is listed at 5ms, without an abbreviation after it, which means that the value is BTB. Personally, if I can have 5ms BTB over 10ms BTB, I'll take it.

Secondly, can you tell me what you mean by "TN panel"?

EDIT: I did some more google digging, and after a couple of pages I found a link stating that the BTB rating for this monitor is 8ms, so the ratio of BTB to GTG timings probably isn't a constant. Meh, I'll consider keeping the monitor.

[Syuusuke]

What of your old monitor?

[ExAm]

This old CRT? Feh. I'll relegate it to Mac duty, probably.

[Snowy]

The problem with LCD monitors isn't the response time, it's the "glow" that it leaves in our eyes, by only producing 60hz, and not inserting a black frame in between each frame to "clear" the previous frame in our head. Some TV companies, such as Samsung have already started doing this, but I have yet to see it make the LCD monitor market, however, keep an eye out for it at CES. This is why if the monitor is 4ms or 2ms GTG, it really doesn't make a difference, because the "afterglow" is still registered in our heads. If that makes any sense.

[ExAm]

Makes sense, but I'm still a bit skeptical as to whether there's no difference between them.

[ExAm]

Update: I'm testing the monitor now, and it appears that when I follow something onscreen, it blurs quite a bit. Am I correct in thinking that that is ghosting? If it is, and it affects my game, the monitor goes. Also, round objects appear slightly oblong at the native resolution. Is this normal? Some kind of compensation for the viewing angle?

[Snowy]

Update: I'm testing the monitor now, and it appears that when I follow something onscreen, it blurs quite a bit. Am I correct in thinking that that is ghosting? If it is, and it affects my game, the monitor goes. Also, round objects appear slightly oblong at the native resolution. Is this normal? Some kind of compensation for the viewing angle?

You may be correct about the ghosting, I can sure see a small trail behind the mouse when I move it... But then again, I don't notice it when I'm just browsing the web or anything... If you don't like your monitor, go to your local Best Buy or Circuit city, they should have plenty of LCD monitors to choose from, pick out which one you like, then buy it on a cheaper site like newegg.

I remember reading something about what you're describing about objects being slightly "oblong", but I can't remember the source, I'll dig around and see if I can link you.

[ExAm]

The true test is the UT3 demo, so I'll play a quick game on that to see if it's really a problem. The main issue I have with the blurring is that it sometimes creates color artifacts around the blurring objects, while the pixels move through their rotations. A definite sign that the response time isn't too good on this monitor.

EDIT: My game has actually improved. I think I'll keep it. The blur actually simulates motion blur in some situations, and I actually think that's kinda cool. Plus the colors are brilliant, and the contrast is superb. I don't even notice any input lag, but that's probably because i've gotten used to it.

[InnerGoat]

The true test is the UT3 demo, so I'll play a quick game on that to see if it's really a problem. The main issue I have with the blurring is that it sometimes creates color artifacts around the blurring objects, while the pixels move through their rotations. A definite sign that the response time isn't too good on this monitor.

EDIT: My game has actually improved. I think I'll keep it. The blur actually simulates motion blur in some situations, and I actually think that's kinda cool. Plus the colors are brilliant, and the contrast is superb. I don't even notice any input lag, but that's probably because i've gotten used to it.
Actually, the response time is too good. It seems that it was overdriven too hard and thats where those artifacts come from. There is usually an option to turn it off, at least in some monitors.

[ExAm]

Eh? Well, there's an option in the menu called "DDC/CI", and it's currently on, but I have no clue what it is.

EDIT: That's not the setting for it. Also, the response time on my CRT monitor, while I didn't know what it was, didn't cause this sort of thing. Are response times on CRT monitors greater or lesser than those of LCD monitors?

EDIT 2: I'm noticing some significant input lag in games, but not my desktop. Something's wrong. Any ideas?

[InnerGoat]

CRTs will always be faster than the LCD, and that smearing/blur you see is just how LCDs are. It is not the same thing as ghosting.

Also, if you're getting some input lag, turn Vsync off, or turn down the frames to render ahead.

[ExAm]

Aww, I love VSync :(

Can you elaborate on how to lower the frames rendered ahead?

[InnerGoat]

Google nHancer, but vsync was probably the cause so you could just leave that off :-3

[ExAm]

I assume the triple buffer VSync option has something to do with it. *turns off*

EDIT: PERFECT!

[ExAm]

UPDATE: RMA successful! Getting a refund and buying the other one, at an unfortunate cost of $30 in restocking fees, for one stupid mistake in my order :P

[dg]

So what did you end up ordering instead? I'm looking for a new display, also.

[ExAm]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009108&Tpk=AL2016WBBD

Same monitor, but with better specs at the same price. This was my original choice, but I ordered the wrong one, mistaking one for the other.

[Phopojijo]

GTG is often the standard scale... which is why ResponseRate is a pain to talk about.

Even still, my LG 204WT is 5ms GTG and it works good. I don't notice ANY ghosting, period.

Also -- 2ms is NOT 10ms BTB -- there's no one-to-one formula to follow...

It's like "600W RMS" amplifiers -- could be 1000W Peak, 1100W Peak, 1200W Peak, 900W Peak...

Sure it's going to be slower than BTB -- but you CANNOT claim to know what EVER GTG 2ms monitor will be in BTB.

[paladin]

Update: I'm testing the monitor now, and it appears that when I follow something onscreen, it blurs quite a bit. Am I correct in thinking that that is ghosting? If it is, and it affects my game, the monitor goes. Also, round objects appear slightly oblong at the native resolution. Is this normal? Some kind of compensation for the viewing angle?


About the oblongyness... I would assume that if you have it tilted, you would see a slight distortion. But probably nothing TO noticeable.

[ExAm]

It's oblong when you DON'T have it tilted, presumably so that it doesn't appear oblong when it IS tilted.

[ExAm]

GTG is often the standard scale... which is why ResponseRate is a pain to talk about.

Even still, my LG 204WT is 5ms GTG and it works good. I don't notice ANY ghosting, period.

Also -- 2ms is NOT 10ms BTB -- there's no one-to-one formula to follow...

It's like "600W RMS" amplifiers -- could be 1000W Peak, 1100W Peak, 1200W Peak, 900W Peak...

Sure it's going to be slower than BTB -- but you CANNOT claim to know what EVER GTG 2ms monitor will be in BTB.On Newegg's site, BTB is the standard, as it is in most places, according to the wiki. If it's not a BTB measurement, it's indicated with "(GTG)". The monitor I ordered is listed on TigerDirect as having an 8ms BTB response time, and the monitor I'm ordering next has a 5ms BTB response time, and better overall specs and reviews. It's the same price, too.