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View Full Version : [HALO 3] Halo3, teh internets and teh Banhammer.



Pyong Kawaguchi
February 4th, 2008, 06:55 PM
Originally posted on Bungie.net by TVI Mr Smith http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=17088009&postRepeater1-p=1



So lately quite a few people have been banned from matchmaking. Some of them for cheating, and some because they had a crappy connection.

But at least some of the people who complained and insisted that they didn't cheat must be telling the truth? Stands to reason? So why were they banned? Especially as nearly every one said "But I have High Speed Internet from xxxx provider ! "

Well, as crazy as it may seem, 'High Speed' doesn't actually mean much when it comes to gaming. To understand why you need to know a few important facts. So here goes-

1)

Halo3 doesn't actually use that much 'speed' ,or bandwidth, as it's more correctly known. Truth is, even if you are hosting a BTB with all 16 players you will not use more than about 512k up or down at any given time. So even a 1Mbs connection could easily host a BTB.

2)

Halo, and indeed most Xbox Live games, do not use the same type of connection as your web browser. If you are reading this on a computer then the information that makes up this page was sent to your computer using small packets of data via a 'mailing system' called TCP. Just like a regular mail system, if a packet gets lost the receiver can tell the sender "oops, I missed that one, can you send another one ?", and it does, so the page you get is complete and without gaps.

But Halo doesn't work like that. The packets of data are sent out just the same way.. but if the receiver doesn't get one there is no way to replace it ! This is because it uses a different 'mail system' called UDP. And it doesn't allow for re-sending stuff. So if the information gets lost.. it stays lost ! This, somewhat unsurprisingly, is known as 'packet loss', which is the proper technical definition of the phrase 'lag'.

So what does this have to do with the banhammer?

Well, because Halo doesn't use the same type of connection as your web browser any assumptions you make about it's performance whilst browsing the web will be based on the wrong thing.

How many packets you can send isn't really important (see 1), it's how many of the ones you do send that actually get to the other end thats the crucial factor. Because you cant re-send them !

In other words, it's the quality of delivery that matters more than the quantity or 'speed'.

It also means it's entirely possible to have a 'high speed' connection with loads of packet loss. Something the unfortunate people who got banned have now found out...because loads of packet loss is exactly the same as standby !

Recon Number 54 summed it up quite nicely the other day-
And getting high-bandwidth reports can lead to a false sense of security that the quality of the connection is good.

In some cases, having more bandwidth can somewhat hide the fact that there are problems with latency and dropped packets. By "overcoming" those problems with just more traffic. Which while it can make some applications like web-surfing seem reliable and better, it doesn't fix anything when using a time-dependant network application (like gaming).


So don't assume that just because your internet connection is labled 'high speed' or that it actually seems to be good for browsing that it's ok for Halo. Because 'high speed' and high quality are not always the same thing !

Told you it was crazy :-)

Further reading-
http://www.myspeed.com/whitepapers/qos_matters.html (http://www.myspeed.com/whitepapers/qos_matters.html)

supersniper
February 4th, 2008, 07:10 PM
So now bungie bans for poor quality connection. Crazy.

PenGuin1362
February 4th, 2008, 11:37 PM
No. Because the kind of connection they're talking about is so bad it basically acts as standby. I'd assume this sort of issue is a rare occurrence. Especially if your internet provider is mexican internets r us

TeeKup
February 5th, 2008, 07:30 PM
Lol thats hilarious. They should ban the accounts at the local game cafe down the street, I tried on xbox live as "Gecafe." All the games I was in was so damn laggy.

supersniper
February 5th, 2008, 09:30 PM
Ah I see. Well that makes sense because I hated it when people pushed Stand by or did bridging in Halo 2.

il Duce Primo
February 5th, 2008, 11:11 PM
I hate the people over at bungie who were complaining about this when bungie told them this. They didn't understand that they are gettign banned becuase thye are ruining other peoples gaming experience. WHich is what cheating does so the consequence is the same. And they are helping the community by eliminating the people like that and saving the rest of the people ion that game is a lot better than just saving that one undeserving person who has bad connection. And they did nto get the concept of very rarely they come across soemone who has this. And it is not just form one game it is from multiple times where this happens.

Bad Waffle
February 5th, 2008, 11:45 PM
The rules at signup dictate that you must have a quality connection capable of gaming quotas. If they ban people with the gaming equivalent of 56k, then they're only cleaning the system of idiots.

PenGuin1362
February 7th, 2008, 08:56 PM
Precisely

Warsaw
February 7th, 2008, 11:20 PM
Cleansing the system of idiots is good.

Banning is not good.

A filter that removes those with bad connections would be better than outright banning, because a ban means that the previously mentioned idiots don't even have the option of upgrading their internet service to play on Live.

PenGuin1362
February 7th, 2008, 11:28 PM
That is actually a good idea if done properly

Con
February 7th, 2008, 11:45 PM
That is actually a good idea if done properly
I concur :V

il Duce Primo
February 7th, 2008, 11:57 PM
How else are they going to do it. If they don't ban them they will just continue to join game and fuck with peoples gaming experience. I don't see another practical and better way of doing this.

alby
February 8th, 2008, 12:01 AM
Did you even read the part about the filter that filters those with bad connections out?

Jay2645
February 8th, 2008, 12:28 AM
Banning IS a way to filter them out.
:eng101:

Timo
February 8th, 2008, 04:55 AM
Ugh, I wish my connection wasn't always orange D: It's been two bars of red lately - it's impossible to win a melee battle (even with sword/hammer), or rockets.

Terry
February 8th, 2008, 04:44 PM
There was a time when my ISP had a little problem that lasted a week that caused me some terrible lag in online games. If this were to happen again, I hope this filter does not affect me.

supersniper
February 8th, 2008, 05:46 PM
How about a temporary ban with a message in their in box telling them why they are banned and how long it will be. Also if they don't upgrade then they will be banned permanently. Also they can give them the option in the message on how to fix their "connection". Meaning upgrade within a month or be banned. SO yes a temporary ban then a permanent.

Syuusuke
February 8th, 2008, 06:22 PM
Or how bout just keep all the crappy connections in one place and keep all the players with good connections in another place?

Hotrod
February 8th, 2008, 06:35 PM
Or how bout just keep all the crappy connections in one place and keep all the players with good connections in another place?

Then it would be impossible for the people with bad connections to play at all, not that they can anyways.