Keep your eye on the news.

[Bodzilla]

MFMLRf2wX9A
the time has come around once again my friends.
Go anon.

[Skiiran]

You would hope that such a large amount of free thinkers would devote their partying to more immediate threats. Such as protecting Kosovo.

[SnaFuBAR]

just like american thoughts. focus on what's wrong with everyone else and do nothing about situations right in front of you.

[Bodzilla]

You dont see the church of Scientology, that has harassed it's critics with its "fair game policy" or the disconnecting of family's due to different beliefs, or the murder of it's own members, financial exploitation, scare tactics, False-flag scenario's, extortion and suppression of free speech in your own country as not being an immediate threat?

what the fuck.

It's not the religion they have a problem with, but it's the fucking organization behind it. The hole "party hard" thing is about fighting the suppression that this for lack of a better term corrupt (to say somethings corrupt implies that it had pure intentions in the first place) organization and have a good (and peaceful time) time doing so.

Because honestly this shit has gone on fucking long enough and if no one fights it how can it ever improve?

[Skiiran]

I'm not delusional. I see their evil. I just don't think it's as relevant as the possible genocide of MILLIONS OF PEOPLE.

[SnaFuBAR]

LET THE UN DO IT, THE COALITION EXISTS FOR A REASON!! HOLY GOD WHY DO WE HAVE TO PLAY WORLD POLICE?!

[Bodzilla]

cause your America.
Fuck yeah.

but seriously i'd like to keep this on topic.

[Mass]

umm, ok, now, that provided the viewer with the knowledge that there was hard partying to be done on March 15th with Anon and friends, and that was about it.

[Bodzilla]

well i could go by and dig up some messages to it, but i just happened to like the music :P

this is just the heads up ;)
it's the 15th in Australia and some of the protests would have just started :)

[SnaFuBAR]

lol, how about some pre-emptive strikes? if i knew they were targeting me, i'd do it. hell if bush can get away with it, so can i. besides, these people are a real clear and present danger.

[Jay2645]

MFMLRf2wX9A
the time has come around once again my friends.
Go anon.
Hai guys, the internet is here.

Seriously, if the series of tubes were converted to real life, it would look something like this.

I'm waiting for longcat is looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooong.

[Bodzilla]

if you look you'll find a picket sign with that on it.

[Kornman00]

LOL over 9000 :lol:

[NuggetWarmer]

I was going to go, but I've got to go out of town unfortunately. I even was going to make a candlejack mask for the prote

[SnaFuBAR]

candlejack meme is tired and gay. shut up. though, your sig is right on.

[Sel]

LOLOLOLOlLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0YCAuEYodg&watch_response

Hate crimes lulz

[n00b1n8R]

FUCKING ANON RICKROLLED ME <:mad:>

[Sel]

FUCKING ANON RICKROLLED ME <:mad:>

I FUCKING RICKROLLED YOU TOO :3

We're no strangers to love
You know the rules and so do I
A full commitment's what I'm thinking of
You wouldn't get this from any other guy
I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling
Gotta make you understand
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never gonna make you cry
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you
We've know each other for so long
Your heart's been aching
But you're too shy to say it
Inside we both know what's been going on
We know the game and we're gonna play it
And if you ask me how I'm feeling
Don't tell me you're too blind to see
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never gonna make you cry
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you
(Repeat Chorus)
Give you up, give you up
Give you up, give you up
Never gonna give,
Never gonna give, give you up
Never gonna give,
Never gonna give, give you up
(Last four lines repeat)
I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling
Gotta make you understand
(Chorus times three)

[CN3089]

You would hope that such a large amount of free thinkers would devote their partying to more immediate threats. Such as protecting Kosovo.

scientologist spotted http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/emot-tinfoil.gif

[Sel]

scientologist spotted http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/emot-tinfoil.gif

oshit

[Jay2645]

MAN THE HARPOONS!

[Jay2645]

No, fuck the harpoons. MAN THE MISSILE!

[Limited]

Cant wait to see these CoS fuckers get afraid again, apparently they filed a protective order.

[Skiiran]

Alright, you guys win. I'm not willing to fight over this one.

After all, at least an evil is being attacked, right? Better to take these things on one peg at a time.

EDIT: I rnt no skientawlogeest. :gonk:

[Zeph]

Best rick-roll evah.

[Dr Nick]

FUCK I LOST!

[itszutak]

FUCK I LOST!Damnit, I just lost the Game. Thanks :/

[InnerGoat]

Hai guys, the internet is here.

Seriously, if the series of tubes were converted to real life, it would look something like this.

I'm waiting for longcat is looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooong.

http://www.h2vista.net/innergoat/net/combobreaker%20sciraid.jpg



also,

http://www.h2vista.net/innergoat/net/hollywood%20second%20raid2.jpg

http://www.h2vista.net/innergoat/net/hollywood%20second%20raid.jpg

Oh and there was tits.

[Bodzilla]

ace.

cheers Doc

[Zeph]

I kinda feel sorry for that pilot. They're going to track him down and make his life miserable.

[SnaFuBAR]

he can just ditch a plane into their building :o

[Kornman00]

:lol: goat. <3

[adumass]

I thought this was over?

[Neuro Guro]

-

[itszutak]

-_- newfaggggg

Anon raids are not about protesting for good or for evil or trying to even to try and get your own beliefs about something into the mainstream culture, its about doing it for the lulz. period.
iawtp

Otherwise they'd actually go after an important/dangerous target.

Like, say, the government.

Anon=entertainment, and only that.

[adumass]

iawtp

Otherwise they'd actually go after an important/dangerous target.

Like, say, the government.

Anon=entertainment, and only that.

Maybe their just getting started...

[itszutak]

Maybe their just getting started...
No. They aren't. Sorry.

[Jay2645]

Anon is about the lulz, has been about the lulz, and will be about the lulz. No cult, no clan. Anon is not an organization, Anon is just the removal of your identity from the tubez of the interwebz, leaving you to do as you please. 4Chan isn't a porn website, it isn't some insane cult leadership. Its a place where you can be a fool and make people lol without having an identity to worry about.

If we were some organization (as newfags tend to think we are), we would have taken over the world by now.

[CN3089]

lulz


man i hope scientology and anonymous destroy each other

[Flyboy]

You would hope that such a large amount of free thinkers would devote their partying to more immediate threats. Such as protecting Kosovo.
Fuck Kosovo. I'm tired of all the foreign relation policy. People hate America because they stick their ass in everyones business, in this case Kosovo might want us to help but why should we care. Back before the baby boomers got into power the U.S. kept out of foreign business as much as possible. Look at us, America isn't even independent anymore. Nothing is even made here any more, our entire economy is reliant upon foreign trade. If you want my opinion, fuck Kosovo, fuck afganistan, fuck Iraq, fuck Iran and fuck the lot of them. And if American takes another "terrorist" attack (notice the quotation marks) then there's a simple solution to the problem. Bomb them. (not nuclear, that creates a whole mess of other problems both environmental and political, but bomb them none the less) I'm tired of all this pussy shit we go through, if they fuck you, fuck them back. It's that simple.

And these stupid kids ranting about an idiotic god damn religion aren't helping. All they're proving is that the majority of people are just as stupid as they've been forever. People who think the stupidity of man has gotten worse over the past hundred years, sorry to break it to you, it hasn't. People remain just as stupid, the only difference is that there are 6 billion people on this planet, so as a result there are more idiots yes, but the ratio remains the same. The smart people will lead as they always have, and like usual the smart people are the ones who have a great ability to reek off personal profit. Nothing has changed.

Once again, fuck Kosovo.

[nooBBooze]

Umm mb its because most of the point you are trying to make consists of more or less (for me) disagreeable implications ["bombing the terrorsts" actually gave me lulz] i still think the bottomline pretty much sums up my beliefs but for other reasons.
kosovo is really just another bitch russia and the US (or us corporations respectably) is fighting about. its NOT about democracy, or giving ethnic minorities certain rights, its not even about freedom. you see, one of the biggest misconception is to think that governments or even larger groups of people act according to basic ethics. as cliche as it sounds, its all about maximizing profit and the implications that arise from that such as maintaining oneself to achieve the ultimate goal of profit.
and since i now forgot the point i was trying to make or mb due to the fact that im starting to realize noone actually reads thorugh my entire post, ill just go ahead, pull a "the sopranos" and end my post in mid sente

[CN3089]

Fuck Kosovo. I'm tired of all the foreign relation policy. People hate America because they stick their ass in everyones business, in this case Kosovo might want us to help but why should we care. Back before the baby boomers got into power the U.S. kept out of foreign business as much as possible. Look at us, America isn't even independent anymore. Nothing is even made here any more, our entire economy is reliant upon foreign trade. If you want my opinion, fuck Kosovo, fuck afganistan, fuck Iraq, fuck Iran and fuck the lot of them. And if American takes another "terrorist" attack (notice the quotation marks) then there's a simple solution to the problem. Bomb them. (not nuclear, that creates a whole mess of other problems both environmental and political, but bomb them none the less) I'm tired of all this pussy shit we go through, if they fuck you, fuck them back. It's that simple.

And these stupid kids ranting about an idiotic god damn religion aren't helping. All they're proving is that the majority of people are just as stupid as they've been forever. People who think the stupidity of man has gotten worse over the past hundred years, sorry to break it to you, it hasn't. People remain just as stupid, the only difference is that there are 6 billion people on this planet, so as a result there are more idiots yes, but the ratio remains the same. The smart people will lead as they always have, and like usual the smart people are the ones who have a great ability to reek off personal profit. Nothing has changed.

Once again, fuck Kosovo.

yeah man, fight the power http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/07-19-06-munch.gif


ps, it's you, you're the idiot

[nooBBooze]

People hate America because they stick their ass in everyones business, in this case Kosovo might want us to help but why should we care. Back before the baby boomers got into power the U.S. kept out of foreign business as much as possible. Look at us, America isn't even independent anymore. Nothing is even made here any more, our entire economy is reliant upon foreign trade.

P.S.: Welcome to U.S. induced globalisation :/

[Flyboy]

There was a reason it was in quotation marks <_<

My point here (chilling out, bad day) is that kosovo is a foreign issue, not a US issue. Bombing terrorists isn't a possibility, however bombing nations is. You have to understand that the majority of the extremists in Iraq are comprised of citizens. The same guy a soldier walks buy selling pots and pans one day could be the same guy firing an RPG at him the next. So theoretically bombing civilian targets, though unethical, is truly the only way we can end any terrorist campaign. The reason it was in quotes is because terrorist organizations really have very little chance of harming the U.S. (I say this because I think 9-11 was an inside job, so many people are going to disagree with me). So first of all we have no need to attack the middle east because the US was never attacked by it in the first place. Second of all, if we did have a reason for an attack then it's really not hard of a job. Wage total war. Like I said it was unethical but how do you think Sherman won the American civil war. Or what about both Germany and Japan in the second world war? The only way to eliminate terrorist potential in the middle east is to do exactly what I said. Bomb the living shit out of civilian targets, if not to kill then to strike both fear and eliminate their ability to maintain an organized force. The problem is your going to have a bunch of ignorant fucks going around:

"Ooh! Don't bomb them, it's not nice. they're innocent. Government, you're too unethical"

[nooBBooze]

Yeah this seems to be the only solution to this whole Iraq quagmire-just nuke the place and turn it into a glass-parking lot (for a possible strike against iran?) or just pull out the official troops, send in corporate mercenaries and establish a fascist regime a la Pinochet.
sure my opinion on US foreign policy -since i am an european and my family was affected by the fascists regimes over here- might not be that legit. while i am thankfull for the liberation uncle sam brought us, i have to keep in mind that theres always multiple reasons for said liberation [notice the lack of quotation marks] and the significant ones being economic reasons.
of course war is the most clumsy way of achieving power/profit. ive always wondered why the us didnt just stage some coups in the middle east [afghanistan not included because a succsesful coup requires a minimum of infrastructure and gov. instiutions] and impose fascist but US friendly regimes like they didnt back in the 50, 60, 70, 80 and 90. forcing countries into financial dependecy might have worked just as well.

EDIT: but you do realise that said startegies somhow legitimate the terrorists or even coincide with terrorism?
in b4 NSA readin this post and locking me up :(

[Bodzilla]

Fuck Kosovo. I'm tired of all the foreign relation policy. People hate America because they stick their ass in everyones business, in this case Kosovo might want us to help but why should we care. Back before the baby boomers got into power the U.S. kept out of foreign business as much as possible. Look at us, America isn't even independent anymore. Nothing is even made here any more, our entire economy is reliant upon foreign trade. If you want my opinion, fuck Kosovo, fuck afganistan, fuck Iraq, fuck Iran and fuck the lot of them. And if American takes another "terrorist" attack (notice the quotation marks) then there's a simple solution to the problem. Bomb them. (not nuclear, that creates a whole mess of other problems both environmental and political, but bomb them none the less) I'm tired of all this pussy shit we go through, if they fuck you, fuck them back. It's that simple.

And these stupid kids ranting about an idiotic god damn religion aren't helping. All they're proving is that the majority of people are just as stupid as they've been forever. People who think the stupidity of man has gotten worse over the past hundred years, sorry to break it to you, it hasn't. People remain just as stupid, the only difference is that there are 6 billion people on this planet, so as a result there are more idiots yes, but the ratio remains the same. The smart people will lead as they always have, and like usual the smart people are the ones who have a great ability to reek off personal profit. Nothing has changed.

Once again, fuck Kosovo.
your logic is flawed.

[CN3089]

insane ramblings

hahaha oh wow http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/07-19-06-munch.gif


yes, let's murder hundreds of thousands of people, after all this is just like wwii and the civil war isn't it http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/emot-downspatriot.gif

[Flyboy]

EDIT: but you do realise that said startegies somhow legitimate the terrorists or even coincide with terrorism?
in b4 NSA readin this post and locking me up :(
Yes I do. And to tell the truth, I don't have any strive against the middle east as of now. Maybe in the beginning of the war, as in right after we liberated the place, but by now I don't. We've been there for 7 years, they have every right to fight to send a message, that message being "Fuck off!"

You honestly can't blame them. It's the same kind of thing as the American Revolution. There's a big difference however between that and legit terrorism. (Pakistan vs Israel). In the case that we were under legit "terrorism" then total war would likely be the only solution to ending it. Either or, like I've said, the foreign stuff is all very very stupid. Why do people give a crap about all these countries an ocean away that have no repercussions on your personal homeland. The only reason this is a hot topic is because the people running for president wanna look like humanitarians, people who care. The only thing Kosovo can do is spark up more foreign troubles for the US.

I am an isolationist. Let everyone have their problems, keep us out of it (though my words won't do anything).

hahaha oh wow http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/07-19-06-munch.gif


yes, let's murder hundreds of thousands of people, after all this is just like wwii and the civil war isn't it http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/emot-downspatriot.gif
Your an idiot. I never said that, I never even implied that I had any desire to kill anyone. All I said is that if you think you can eliminate terror by waging it on militia, then you're wrong. It requires total war, war on civilians as well as militia. Even then it won't fix the problem as it will breed hate among survivors.

[CN3089]

Your an idiot.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/emot-master.gif





Seriously though, you're an adorable bundle of insanity, never stop posting http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/emot-neckbeard.gif

[Flyboy]

I'll quit talking fine if it so pleases you. But don't be so sure of yourself, you have yet to say anything intelligent to counter what I've said. All your doing is "your a fool, your insane" and what not. If you really think I'm that dumb then you surely have some notable evidence or thoughts against my ideas.

If not then you truly are just a cocky fool who truly has no opinions or knowledge on the matter at hand and just thinks that calling me a moron some how makes you so much better. But of course my organized and fact based opinion has nothing on "you're an adorable bundle of insanity."

[Limited]

Flyboy, I once thought highly of you, now your just a babbling baboon. Unless your posts are some kind of sick joke where you will soon reply with "haha only joking, im not THAT insane", you are completely blind to how the world works, have no morals and are a TYPICAL American. You Americans wonder why the world laughs at your military strategies, why films depict you to be complete idiots. In my eyes your military is very smart, its just stupid voters like flyboy who cry for bloodshed, but when the bloodshed happens to your own people you cry for help.

You post like you think American has done nothing wrong, and are being attacked by terrorists for no good reason, if I remember rightly you nuked the crap out of Japan, you started the war in Iraq round 1, you started the war in Iraq round 2, you started the war in Afghanistan. I definitely dont agree with what has happened all over the world, in terror plots, however I DO see why these people are so anti-west countries.


Bomb the living shit out of civilian targets, if not to kill then to strike both fear and eliminate their ability to maintain an organized force. The problem is your going to have a bunch of ignorant fucks going around:

"Ooh! Don't bomb them, it's not nice. they're innocent. Government, you're too unethical"

Your an idiot. I never said that, I never even implied that I had any desire to kill anyone.
Since when has Iraqi civilians become bomb-proof, because that is the only way they would survive from your "Bomb the living shit out of civilian targets". You say "omfg bomb them civilians" like you assume the US never HAS bombed Baghdad. Oh wait, yes, the first fucking thing they DID was to bomb the crap out of the country. Or are you forgetting that slight bit of detail?

You complain about how you think the US is expected to clean up Kosovo and you complain its not your job to do so, its not required the US does, but if your country plans reform, you should try to help, just like other leading countries do, including the UK, which has helped in the past when the US hasnt.

I love your stance of the Kosovo thing, like America is the world police and the only country to do a good job of it would be America, quite frankly America is probably the worst country in the world for doing so.

I still cant believe you think bombing innocent people will solve the problem, it will clearly escalate the problem, dont you think you have fucked up the west enough? Dont you realise what these countries are capable of? If you have forgotten, the US gave these countries arms, just like you did with Iraq. Your currently funding Saudi's army, which in a few years could be attacking any country, giving money and arms to such an unstable country is ridiculously reckless.

Flyboy, you forget the US is incapable of holding down foreign policies.

My lil rant is over, I dont mean to upset any Americans, or any one for that matter, I'm just pointing out facts that have already happened.

[Flyboy]

Limited, the thing I like about you is that when you try to make a point you back it up with stuff. Despite your opinions on me I must say I respect you for posting something against me with background. However I must deny what you've said.

Ok, I want everyone to re read what I said. I stated that anyone who has a desire to eliminate terror has no choice but to engage in total war. I NEVER SAID I SUPPORT KILLING INNOCENTS. I never said that. What I said is that if anyone has an objective to eliminate terror, the only way to do it is to become the very thing you had intent to destroy. A terrorist. Bombing military targets is not an option because these people do not have a central militia. I DO NOT SUPPORT THIS. The notion came up, and this, in my eyes, is the only way to eliminate the so called "problem." However on contrary, like I have also said, you become what you tried to destroy. There is a huge difference between saying what you think is a solution and saying you support that solution. When your dealing with this amount of people you are faced with the exact same predicament. The solution isn't necessarily a good one, and I would never ever EVER make a decision of attacking civilian targets. But is that likely the only way to eliminate terror, sadly yes. Man has proven that he doesn't listen to words, not for long at least. Ever notice how every peace speaking person in the world has been killed? I don't know whats wrong with people, but apparently they have some kind of joy from killing each other. You can not stop that with out killing the people who feel the incentive to do so. And by doing that you must ask yourself, who is the true terrorist. Once again, I will make it perfectly clear, I DO NOT SUPPORT KILLING. The reasons I said what I said are above. And once more, there is a difference in being aware of a solution and actually supporting it.

Secondly, where did I show any support of the US being some kind of world police. Since when have I posted in any fashion thinking America has done nothing wrong? I think America is the fucking problem. Look back in my posts, they're indicating a sense of isolationism, saying that I don't think America should be focusing on this kind of stuff. Now, seeing that America is doing quite the opposite don't you think I might find a little fault in my country? Dude, I think the U.S. government blew up the twin towers, killing three thousand people! I find plenty of fault with this country and I think the entire political status of America has been going down for quite a while. The fact of the matter is the U.S. does have a huge problem with foreign business. We've stuck our nose in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran (Who apparently never had nuclear ability, refuting your words of "do you know what these countries are capable of?" Apparently it's not much. We gave them arms, and our idiotic government funded and trained Al Quida when Russia tried to invade Afghanistan not too long ago. However, we gave them small arms, rpgs, mines and basic military knowledge. By no means did we give them the keys to a WMD. The organized governments such as Iran and the old Iraq were pushing for newer and more deadly weapons, but they were not close to the levels of destruction false intel had predicted. Things were handled sloppily and in a hurry, but these people did not have the capability of killing hundreds of thousands with the snap of their fingers) North Korea, China, and now Kosovo. Keep in mind I'm only mentioning recent stuff, if we wanted to review the past 30-40 years we'd develop an even bigger list. My point here is that the U.S. interferes with too many things that it has both no reason to interfere with and/or no need to. Which is why I think this entire subject of Kosovo should be left to the countries in the area.

And I ask you why should we help? Gas is approaching 4 dollars and the economy is nearly in a recession. The government needs to focus on OUR problems and needs. Those would be getting rid of this stupid 100 billion dollar war and rebuilding the economy. (your euro is at what, 1.53 US dollars now? Aren't you happy?) After we resolve those issues, and it will no doubt take time, then we can focus on some seceding country thousands of miles away. Even then I don't see the point.

I guess that makes more sense than me just yelling out "fuck kosovo!" eh? Thats my fault, I was acting like a rambling ass. Apologies for that and I can see why you would draw those conclusions from my non sensible pissy ramblings of my pissy day. I hope the above is a bit more organized and credible. But my views and opinions remain the same.

[SnaFuBAR]

oh hay guys let's eliminate terrorism by bombing the shit out of civilians! because that totally solves the problem instead of creating more hateful terrorists with nothing to lose!

FLYBOY SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DUMB FUCKING FUCKWIT IDIOT DUMB CUNT.

you might use your head and see the point in that post.

[Sel]

oh hay guys let's eliminate terrorism by bombing the shit out of civilians!

Thats how Id do it, if theres no one left to terrorize the terrorists cant do their thing.

lulz

[Flyboy]

Once again snaf, thanks for reading intently to me saying I didn't support killing civilians. Your powers of understanding and attention never cease to amaze me. -_-

[Limited]

Compelling post flyboy, I now understand your stance about bombing.

I understand the US ecomomy is messed up right now, sadly I know too much about it, that US bank closing has directly effected the UK ecomoy, the bank of England put 5 billion back into the system to try and fix the fault. Sadly that costs our tax payers.

I dont agree with your stance about the bombing, the fact we need to become what we are trying to fight, the second we do, we lose the war. Sadly that time has past, we have already lost the war, we are now trying to fix it the best we can and heal our reputation's that have been tarnished. I think we both agree, its basically the world vs terrorists, and the world is the "good" side, the terrorists are the bad side, putting it plainly anyways. We need to stay "good", we are setting an explain to the world. In my eyes, we have already stooped as low as the terrorists, if only you knew what was really going on in Iraq, sadly the US government vets the hell out of the news for you, the UK gets a bit more truth but is generally vetted out likewise. Only documentary's can give the whole true.

Earlier today, there was a tv show about the real Baghdad, and how the US prides themselves about the fact the violence has dropped, claiming it was due to what the "allied" forces have done, obviously without letting you know, there is miles and miles of walls surrounding the suburbs of Baghdad, its known as the city of walls by journalists.

Sadly there is no easy way of defeating terrorists, in my eyes we can never win against them, more and more terrorists are becoming homegrown, but the problem is in the middle east. Terrorists are everywhere, the second you think everything is at an okay level, a car bomb goes off and greats the havoc all over again. Bombing these countries wont solve any thing, it will create panic, but will the terrorists panic? Nope, they want to cause panic, terror. You will be doing their job for them.

Iraq is a big mess, I feel we needed to go into Afghanistan, but Iraq was totally unnecessary, especially now we know it was all over oil, and there was no WMD's. That was in the past, it happened, is there any way they can fix Iraq? I'm very doubtful Iraq will ever be peaceful now, even if we get the Iraqi police working there, theres already corruption in the Iraqi police, there will be a revolt and there will be a civil war. Its an unstable country, sadly to say, there was more order in Iraq when Saddam was in power, things were different, but there was order.

I predict we will still be in Iraq, when we are in our late 20's, we will never pull out, not for AGES.

[Flyboy]

Not the way things are going here. McCain is not going to become the president, that much is certain. It's either Obama or Hillery. Both of them use Iraq as a key in their campaign, claiming that we'll be out in not nearly the amount of time you claim. The only thing is here that I've seen political promises time and again and they never cease to amaze me with their outcomes. Iraq has become a Vietnam to the American people in a way, minus the hippy youth. We're going to leave one way or another, the only question is whats going to happen to the country after that. Personally I don't care but it will undoubtedly become a key issue in foreign politics.

And yeah, censorship. Great to know the constitution and the bill of rights are still in effect [/sarcasam]

[SnaFuBAR]

Once again snaf, thanks for reading intently to me saying I didn't support killing civilians. Your powers of understanding and attention never cease to amaze me. -_-

I'm not saying you support killing civilians. I'm saying that your "solution" is not one. You have no understanding. Let's look at what you said objectively.


So theoretically bombing civilian targets, though unethical, is truly the only way we can end any terrorist campaign.

With bombing civilian targets comes killing civilians. Destroying their lives does nothing to help eliminate terrorism, it only creates a stronger sense of nationalism and hatred towards the aggressor group and a stronger bond between neighboring states. One such instance is with the conflict between Hezbollah and the IDF. After much aggression by the IDF, the Lebanese began welcoming Hezbollah because they stand up to the aggressors who are destroying their lives.

Then there are instances where people are slaughtered in their homes by brutal terrorist forces to gain compliance from the populace in place. Good example: Iraq.

Not only is your idea "unethical" it's totally unrealistic. Attacking civilian targets that may or may not be in league with enemies to your nation could NEVER be a way to win a war on a terrorist group. Terrorism can't be defeated with bombs, as terrorism is an ideology. The only way to even begin to quell a terrorist threat is to expose people to a contending ideology and winning "hearts and minds".

To suggest bombing nations and civilian targets to defeat terrorism in comparison to ww2 and the civil war is LUDICROUS.

[Bodzilla]

oh hay guys let's eliminate terrorism by bombing the shit out of civilians! because that totally solves the problem instead of creating more hateful terrorists with nothing to lose!

FLYBOY SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DUMB FUCKING FUCKWIT IDIOT DUMB CUNT.

you might use your head and see the point in that post.
i've said it once, and i'll say it again.

Snaf is the only person in america i'd actually trust to carry around a weapon for self defense reasons.
i dunno why.

respect. :)
the rest of you Trigger happy fucks can get the fuck off my news reports!

[thehoodedsmack]

Not the way things are going here. McCain is not going to become the president, that much is certain. It's either Obama or Hillery.

(Because I find it easier to type "we", pretend I'm American for a moment)

I disagree. While I'd like to see a black or female president, we aren't ready. Not as a people, but as a country. We're still at war in Iraq, and it's not as simple as just pulling out. To do so means leaving your back turned, and America's enemies are sure to take that opportunity. McCain is a war hero, with past experience in dealing with matters of international conflict. If it's 3 AM in the morning and the bomb drops, I'd want him at the wheel. As soon as people realize that change will always be an option, and that the near future requires stability that can't be gained by a Liberal negotiator of a president, I imagine McCain will be looked at more favorably.

/Opinion

(You may now return to me being a Canadian)

[Bodzilla]

Righto i've decided to keep this open for the moment.

even tho whats currently being discussed has absolutely nothing with which i originally created the thread for, it doesnt change the fact that a good debate, is a good debate.

keep it clean or i'll lock this faster then Zeph gives me infractions.
~zilla

[Tweek]

http://l.yimg.com/www.flickr.com/images/spaceball.gif
it's the only way. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/45885850@N00/107087778)

[Flyboy]

I'm not saying you support killing civilians. I'm saying that your "solution" is not one. You have no understanding. Let's look at what you said objectively.



With bombing civilian targets comes killing civilians. Destroying their lives does nothing to help eliminate terrorism, it only creates a stronger sense of nationalism and hatred towards the aggressor group and a stronger bond between neighboring states. One such instance is with the conflict between Hezbollah and the IDF. After much aggression by the IDF, the Lebanese began welcoming Hezbollah because they stand up to the aggressors who are destroying their lives.

Then there are instances where people are slaughtered in their homes by brutal terrorist forces to gain compliance from the populace in place. Good example: Iraq.

Not only is your idea "unethical" it's totally unrealistic. Attacking civilian targets that may or may not be in league with enemies to your nation could NEVER be a way to win a war on a terrorist group. Terrorism can't be defeated with bombs, as terrorism is an ideology. The only way to even begin to quell a terrorist threat is to expose people to a contending ideology and winning "hearts and minds".

To suggest bombing nations and civilian targets to defeat terrorism in comparison to ww2 and the civil war is LUDICROUS.
So whats your solution? Let them scurry around like ants. There is no uniform, no leader controlling everything, nothing distinguishable between citizen and terrorist. Yes it is an idealogical thought, but don't you find it quite odd that that thought is harbored mainly in Islam, no other religion in the world has suffered as much controversy for one simple reason. They don't kill people.It's not being racist, you can't deny that over what, 90% of the guys who do things like we've talked about are Islamic. Not to say all Islam is bad, because it's not, however a good portion of its population seam to be doing some pretty bad shit. And with no way to judge who is who, what other options are there? Negotiation and speech? Well I think the past few thousand years have pretty much shown how much that works.

[Limited]

Christianity has suffered alot of controversy, they DO kill people, the whole idea of it is based on them killing Jesus, its that time of the year right now. Easter.

Each religion has a shady past and has done bad things.

Islam is not bad, the Koran or whatever its called does NOT contain any of the things these insane terrorists claim it does. It does not preach killing, it does not preach terrorism. I havent read it, but there has been many documentaries on the tv making sure people know it is not a bad book.

Terrorists claim the Koran book says to do these things, thats the only connection. I hate the fact they blame religion for their actions too, religion is a very powerful tool, you can get the nicest of people to do incredibly dangerous and horrific things in the name of religion, its scary.

There is no easy answer to the middle east, its a very unstable area, we need to tread softly for sure, this means bombing them is not an option.

On a different note, its funny, I havent seen ANYTHING in the English news, at all about Anon, not even about the first protest in Feb, weird. I suppose we have more important things to cover. Sadly there is no good news in the news any more.

[Flyboy]

Good news was never good news. People don't care about nice happenings in the world.

And yes, all religion has the ability to coax people into killing for some pathetic idea (crusades). Which is why I am strongly atheist.

[SnaFuBAR]

So whats your solution? Let them scurry around like ants. There is no uniform, no leader controlling everything, nothing distinguishable between citizen and terrorist. Yes it is an idealogical thought, but don't you find it quite odd that that thought is harbored mainly in Islam, no other religion in the world has suffered as much controversy for one simple reason. They don't kill people.It's not being racist, you can't deny that over what, 90&#37; of the guys who do things like we've talked about are Islamic. Not to say all Islam is bad, because it's not, however a good portion of its population seam to be doing some pretty bad shit. And with no way to judge who is who, what other options are there? Negotiation and speech? Well I think the past few thousand years have pretty much shown how much that works.
It might seem like that because that's the tripe you get off the internet and news stations. That's the propaganda OOOO MUSLIMS ARE BAD PEOPLE! The crusades weren't the beginning of people attacking Muslim countries, though that was some of the worst. If you happened to be educated on the matter, or even bothered to look up history, "Jihad" has ALWAYS been reactionary. These people have been attacked by Christian countries since forever. Not to mention that modern jihad really started with the Hindus that opposed Brit rule in their lands, and swore to continue fighting until they were killed or died of hunger. Not only this, the Christian Brits overturned prosperous, peaceful Islamic governments in order to take the wealth and establish trade routes in the region.

Since you don't believe that terrorists attacked the WTC, (i don't either), that's no case of Jihad either. Not to mention, Jihad has to be decreed by an Islamic council, you can't get a group of angry guys together and "declare jihad". It doesn't work that way in the Islamic world.

So, who started this war? Christians (or so they claim they are). Who has slaughtered many times more than any other people in the modern world? Christians.

The solutions are A) Intel to take down threats that are a clear and present danger, and B) stop antagonizing Islamic states.

It would do you much good to not speak about things you don't know about.

[Flyboy]

Who started this war, Christians yes. However, we can look at another issue where it was flipped around. However I like to think we're a bit more civilized when attacking other people, as in intentionally starting the shooting in the middle of streets of people, or setting off bombs in local residence, or possibly killing a Pakistan woman (name doesn't ring a bell) who was actually trying to preach peace, oh year and taking along (I think it was 120) with her. The people who are Christians aren't fighting for god, they're fighting because they were stupid enough to sign their name on an army contract. However modern Iraqi extremists are more or less fighting to get the U.S. out. But if you want to talk about radicle Islam making the first move then might I mention something.

Israel ring a bell anyone?

P.S. I didn't say all Muslims are terrorist, but it's undeniable that the majority of terrorists are.

[nooBBooze]

Christianity has suffered alot of controversy, they DO kill people, the whole idea of it is based on them killing Jesus, its that time of the year right now. Easter.

Theres nothing wrong about juice killing juice.

One more thing before i go ontopic again: neither one [US and the various gangs we summarize as TERRORSTS] is fighting for a higher good nor for justice. Theres no way one can possibly say this is all about the fight of "christians" vs "muslims". In the end, its all about profit/power and the implications that arise from it (sigh i think im havin a deja vu/said). one side fights for territory and yes, how cliche, oil and other ways of income while the other side[s] merely fight for immediate power wich isnt always stricly anti-american. both sides sure have excuses and propaganda to justifie and propell their actions wheter it be interpretations of the koran [can you immagine? ppl actually kill one another under the premise that they have different interpretations of the koran?] or some twisted world police bullshit but when it comes down to it, their both pretty much the same. as i said, there is NO ethics in politics.

HOWEVER i think last year there was a gay pride parade in jerusalem where the protesters protested against the israeli raid of lebanon. now imagine how that parade would have played out if the arabs won the 6-day war.
[/offtopic]

also, anon has to start SOMEWHERE when if they bring down scientology they can move on to other, much more important assholes.

[SnaFuBAR]

Who started this war, Christians yes. However, we can look at another issue where it was flipped around. However I like to think we're a bit more civilized when attacking other people, as in intentionally starting the shooting in the middle of streets of people, or setting off bombs in local residence, or possibly killing a Pakistan woman (name doesn't ring a bell) who was actually trying to preach peace, oh year and taking along (I think it was 120) with her. The people who are Christians aren't fighting for god, they're fighting because they were stupid enough to sign their name on an army contract. However modern Iraqi extremists are more or less fighting to get the U.S. out. But if you want to talk about radicle Islam making the first move then might I mention something.

Israel ring a bell anyone?

P.S. I didn't say all Muslims are terrorist, but it's undeniable that the majority of terrorists are.

If you're talking about Buhto (spelling, I know), then she was killed because she embezzled millions of dollars while thousands starved to death, and she got amnesty for her husband who was convicted(?) of murder. She was sent back by Bush and friends to make that portion of the region "pro-'merica", but they didn't want her back. I think it's reasonable to eliminate someone who would surely not see to the well being of the people (though the innocents taken with her is not acceptable by any means, and most certainly is completely against Islamic practice, even for Jihad). She was not about preaching peace. That was just publicity. She's a thief who's greed killed thousands.

More civilized than them? How so? We killed more civilians than them. We destroyed their infrastructure. We destroyed everything they have. Relatively few have died by insurgent hands in comparison to coalition action.

You think fighting because you've signed your name on a contract is better than fighting "for God"?? The majority of these people are fighting against Westernization of the Islamic states, and then there are the people who are out for revenge, because coalition forces bombed/shot/murdered/mistook their entire family/wife/brother/father/son for the insurgents. The only reason the "majority of terrorists are Muslim" is because, well, it's a direct result of, yet again, Christian aggression. Just because the Coalition is an organized military funded by governments doesn't make it any less terroristic than what the insurgents are doing. They are seeking to impose their will on others with the use of, or the threat of violence. That is terrorism. SO, I guess really there's more Christian terrorists than Islamic terrorists.

As for Israel, that problem was caused by the Brits splitting the Palestinian territory and stuffing the Jews displaced by the Germans there. So, again, the problem there began as a result of more Christian action.

Go learn history.

[Flyboy]

As for the Bhutto thing, I'll admit I didn't have a background on that so it shouldn't have been an example, but it still does show something. Instead of finding a way around killing the woman, like convicting here in a court or putting her in jail or even holding some form of public scrutiny against her instead they choose to set off a bomb taking civilians with her. To say that they had reasons for doing something like that is stupid. Reason or not she did not deserve that. And I'm pretty confident that most countries under a Christian based society wouldn't do things like that. However to be realistic we must look at people like John Brown, the KKK (yes I know most of my examples are American, if you don't know them there's not much I can do to help) who based what they did off Christian concepts. So once again, there is no good religion except for a lack of it religion.

As for Israel, once again we're put into a situation where things could have been handled differently. And now half a decade later the same intent is being focused on this one country. I think it has to do with a little bit more than borders don't you. Religious prejudice much. Take the Irani president, he's stated numerous times that he would just love to blow Israel off the map, exactly why we're lucky as hell that they apparently had no development of nuclear weapons. If they did, it's not hard to imagine the target. The Lebanon problem not to long ago did not start because of Israel. It seams that the majority of the bordering countries are the ones striking first. And like I said before, logically it's likely more that just a 50 year old border dispute.

Iraq I agree with you here, as I've stated with my posts. We went there for no reason (fake 9-11, not for here) and started a pointless war. Saddam, well, I'm not going to say I wish he was still in power, actually I think it was a good thing that the bastard was removed. Do I still think we should have gone into Iraq? No. After nearly a decade of being there though, these people have every right to fight us to try and get us out. So for once I'm actually supporting these people, however they have no grasp on the situation and don't realize that as they fight our government is using then as an excuse to remain there.

My entire point is how many legit terror attacks, with no other intent than to kill in the name of a god have been done in the past say twenty years. And when I say that I don't mean soldiers accidentally shooting at civilians, (if stuff like that happens intentionally and I have not heard about it then I'm no longer going to consider my news to have 50% credibility, rather more like 10%. That being the weather) I mean soldiers actually killing others with no other intent than to destabilize an area. The decisions made in the chain of command don't count for the record (because there are some pretty fucked up people in charge), a private has no choice in whether he follows an order, a good order or not. Now if he enjoyed doing what he did then I would start questioning the intent of Christian soldiers. Which kind of counters what you've said. Just because the people in charge have started these conflicts, does it truly represent the ideas of all those under the same religion? This could be countered by saying the same with Islam, that we have a bad view of them because of a few rotten apples. However those committing acts of terror more or less believe in their cause, where as a soldier doesn't need to. All he needs is an order, and from that point he must follow it.

Once again firmly atheist on this matter. I don't like either side but I can find one more civilized than the other.

[Mass]

P.S. I didn't say all Muslims are terrorist, but it's undeniable that the majority of terrorists are.

http://www.glue.umd.edu/~sschreib/autumn_02/introductions/IRAposter.jpg

Oh em gee, is that a christian man with a ski-mask and assault weapon?

Think of the last ten terrorist attacks on the U.S. almost all of them are school shootings perpetrated by nerds with guns, no religious anything.

We're more civilized because we deliver our bombs from planes and not people, eh?

[SnaFuBAR]

Religious prejudice much. Take the Irani president, he's stated numerous times that he would just love to blow Israel off the map, exactly why we're lucky as hell that they apparently had no development of nuclear weapons. If they did, it's not hard to imagine the target. The Lebanon problem not to long ago did not start because of Israel. It seams that the majority of the bordering countries are the ones striking first. And like I said before, logically it's likely more that just a 50 year old border dispute.

another who fell for the epic mis-quote of the iranian president.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=NOR20070120&articleId=4527
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cb7_1204029292&c=1

the nuclear holocaust is a lie.

[nooBBooze]

My entire point is how many legit terror attacks, with no other intent than to kill in the name of a god have been done in the past say twenty years. And when I say that I don't mean soldiers accidentally shooting at civilians, (if stuff like that happens intentionally and I have not heard about it then I'm no longer going to consider my news to have 50% credibility, rather more like 10%. That being the weather) I mean soldiers actually killing others with no other intent than to destabilize an area.
Ever heard of My Lai [gramma :/?]?
Lets say back in the 60s/70s the actual frontline coverage was far more unbiased.

[Limited]

Looking into the terrible past wont achieve any thing. Trying to sort out the future is the key.

Iraq war would have been justified, if the 52 playing card people (Saddam being one) were killed. Sadly the Americans destroyed the entire infrastructure like Snaf said. Whats next? Pulling out is the only option, right now the ball is in the American's court, the Brits have started withdrawal, they are only there just for the sake of being a presence, the Americans on the other hand, are there believing the war can still be won.

Will pulling out cause panic and a total political collapse? Now I've thought about it more, I very much doubt it, yes things will get worse before they get better, but it wont be all disastrous.

[Jay2645]

...How the HELL did a discussion about /b/ become a debate between Christianity and Islam?

[SnaFuBAR]

You can thank flyboy for stating his less than knowledgeable account of the world and how it works.