Tool to directly port CE maps to H2V?

[MereCatfish]

Do you think a tool will be implemented to directly port CE maps to H2V, if you have the scenario tags or something like that? Would it even be possible?

[Zeph]

I doubt it'd be possible. H2 uses a different texture system than H1. It's all in the bump mapping now. Basically, H2V's bump mapping system can turn the two triangle pockets on the ODST's vest into something that looks incredibly 3D.

edit: Well, I do suppose it's possible, but I dont see how it'd work out prettily with the change in the texture system. I mean, the sbsp seems to work out the same.

[Stealth]

yes, but here is a idea, make a tool that makes CE maps in to H2V maps, and add all of the things that are needed for Halo 2.

[PlasbianX]

yes, but here is a idea, make a tool that makes CE maps in to H2V maps, and add all of the things that are needed for Halo 2.

Um.. wtf? Isnt that what the firt post says?

[Rescudo]

Basically... but with the words "and add all of the things that are needed for Halo 2." added to it. So yeah... :/

[Chewy Gumball]

Which wouldn't be very easy to make considering the changes in tag files.

[FireScythe]

It depends on whether H2V tags have similar values to HCE tags (Obviously :P). The only way I can see a program like this working well is if it keeps a log of all the tags converted, and of what is missing in them so you can go through them and add the extra bitmaps, values, etc. Otherwise it would just be a mess of errors. Or maybe a wizard type interface, allowing you to input values along the way, but that would take a long time :P.

But until H2V arrives we just wont know.

[Zeph]

They're similar. They go about doing certain things in a different, and sometimes comepletely new, way. It'd be just like making a tag converter for CE, but a good deal more complicated seeing how the data will have to be more than flip flopped and re-ordered.

[Arteen]

Do you think a tool will be implemented to directly port CE maps to H2V, if you have the scenario tags or something like that? Would it even be possible?
If we're going to bother to port maps over to H2V, we should at least put a bit of effort into it. We should give each map we port individual attention and not rely on some tool that automates it with no sense of the subtleties in each map and the differences between Halo CE and Halo 2 Vista. A converter would make the whole process quick and effortless, but we would end up with a bunch of maps that are unpolished and don't play as well as they could had the map "maker" paid more attention to each individual part of the map.

For example, we already know that Hang 'em High doesn't play too well in Halo 2. A converter could easily convert H1 HeH to H2V and it will be instantly playable, but the level will not be polished. The user will not be inclined to spend a large portion of his time rearranging and balancing weapons and spawns to make the map more polished, because it would be messy and it would takr too much effort. A person who starts with just the bsp and an understanding of how HeH is populated and played in H1 will be better able to balance and polish the map in the process of converting it when it is easy, instead of after the map is fully converted.

[Reaper Man]

I doubt it'd be possible. H2 uses a different texture system than H1. It's all in the bump mapping now. Basically, H2V's bump mapping system can turn the two triangle pockets on the ODST's vest into something that looks incredibly 3D.

edit: Well, I do suppose it's possible, but I dont see how it'd work out prettily with the change in the texture system. I mean, the sbsp seems to work out the same.

the realtime bumpmap -> normal map converter you mean?

[TheGhost]

If we're going to bother to port maps over to H2V, we should at least put a bit of effort into it. We should give each map we port individual attention and not rely on some tool that automates it with no sense of the subtleties in each map and the differences between Halo CE and Halo 2 Vista. A converter would make the whole process quick and effortless, but we would end up with a bunch of maps that are unpolished and don't play as well as they could had the map "maker" paid more attention to each individual part of the map.
Incredibly well put, Arteen. +http://www.h2vista.net/forums/h2images/reputation/reputation_pos.gif

[Rescudo]

If we're going to bother to port maps over to H2V, we should at least put a bit of effort into it. We should give each map we port individual attention and not rely on some tool that automates it with no sense of the subtleties in each map and the differences between Halo CE and Halo 2 Vista. A converter would make the whole process quick and effortless, but we would end up with a bunch of maps that are unpolished and don't play as well as they could had the map "maker" paid more attention to each individual part of the map.

For example, we already know that Hang 'em High doesn't play too well in Halo 2. A converter could easily convert H1 HeH to H2V and it will be instantly playable, but the level will not be polished. The user will not be inclined to spend a large portion of his time rearranging and balancing weapons and spawns to make the map more polished, because it would be messy and it would takr too much effort. A person who starts with just the bsp and an understanding of how HeH is populated and played in H1 will be better able to balance and polish the map in the process of converting it when it is easy, instead of after the map is fully converted.
I agree, this is my point of view too. You have to consider H1 balance vs H2 balance.

[legionaire45]

I just hope that it will let you use 3DSMax as a modelling tool (they'll probably throw Maya PLE or Gmax in the box though). If not im sure someone will figure out how to convert it eventually. Really through I dont think a straight forward converter would be all that good for H2V because not only do the maps lose their polish, but then we will be subject to a whole new wave of boxmaps/bloodgulch mods. If anyone makes one then at least make it confusing as hell so that it scares the boxmappers off.

[Timo]

Nitro did say something along the lines of 'if you want to make a map for h2v do it the way you make maps for halo ce' So I think they'll let you use 3dsmax.

[TheGhost]

Yes, but at the same time they've stated that they don't think users should have to spend lots of money on a 3rd party tool, so they might also have some sort of built-in map editor. Who knows.

[WhÎþLå§h ÐÆmØÑ]

Yes, but at the same time they've stated that they don't think users should have to spend lots of money on a 3rd party tool, so they might also have some sort of built-in map editor. Who knows.Oh oh oh, I know, the best of both worlds! Built-in map editor for the annoying noobs and we get to use 3dsmax (and maybe maya?)! :)

[Boo Diddly]

hahah! actually that would be nice. if they make a mesh-creator program, you could also import other stuff.

[MereCatfish]

I really hope that it doesn't come under some "all-in-one" application. I like having Tool, Sapien, Guerilla and 'x' modelling software seperate.

[Boo Diddly]

I'm glad to repeate that it wont be an all-in-one. It will be bungie's home made apps plus the modeling software of your choice.

Promethius on the other hand...

[FireDragon04]

If we're going to bother to port maps over to H2V, we should at least put a bit of effort into it. We should give each map we port individual attention and not rely on some tool that automates it with no sense of the subtleties in each map and the differences between Halo CE and Halo 2 Vista. A converter would make the whole process quick and effortless, but we would end up with a bunch of maps that are unpolished and don't play as well as they could had the map "maker" paid more attention to each individual part of the map.

For example, we already know that Hang 'em High doesn't play too well in Halo 2. A converter could easily convert H1 HeH to H2V and it will be instantly playable, but the level will not be polished. The user will not be inclined to spend a large portion of his time rearranging and balancing weapons and spawns to make the map more polished, because it would be messy and it would takr too much effort. A person who starts with just the bsp and an understanding of how HeH is populated and played in H1 will be better able to balance and polish the map in the process of converting it when it is easy, instead of after the map is fully converted.

Very well put, If ur going to port a map, spend some time making it "worthy" is the kinda moral i see. LOL.:lol:

[Zeph]

For example, we already know that Hang 'em High doesn't play too well in Halo 2.

I have to disagree. We know that Hang 'em High with Bungie's incredibly fucked up weapon system doesn't play too well. I went around doind some ingame testing of Halo 2 today to see how much I'll have to change for my map once H2V is out. I took some notes on a whiteboard, but erased it so I could work easier with some mat IDing. I remember most of it though.

The weapons are terribly inaccurate. At what I'm believing to be two meters, the magnum hits inside the reticle less than 25% of the time. The sniper rifle does not shoot in the same spot two times in a row unless it is scoped at maximum. The SMG is more accurate if you're dual wielding. The BR and the plasma pistol are the only weapons in the game that will hit the same spot no matter what through the entire clip. The shotgun never shoots all of its pellets in the reticle unless you are less than one meter away. If you're farther than one meter away, the shotgun lands about 10% of its pellets inside the reticle.

The shotgun in itself is a mystery. Either it chooses a random number from 4-12 and uses that as the number of pellets it shoots or it allows the pellets to hit on top of one another. For example, it might appear that a shotgun only shoots four pellets, but in reality, the game told it to land up to 9 of the pellets in the exact spot. Considering that the shotgun rarely shoots inside the reticle, this could lead to a person not getting hit one even if a shotgun is pointed directly at them and fired from two meters away.

I'm not even going to go into the problem with amunition and weapon spawns in the game. I'll just leave it at me saying that I've found weapons able to despawn if certain conditions are met.

[Arteen]

I have to disagree. We know that Hang 'em High with Bungie's incredibly fucked up weapon system doesn't play too well...
Thanks for catching my mistake. I meant to say, "Halo 2 doesn't play too well." My bad. But I do not doubt we'll have Halo 1 mods for H2V that will fix those problems. :)

[TheGhost]

Zeph, fortunately for us, almost all of that is under our control. With modifications you should be able to customize everything almost exactly the way you feel it should be.

[Zeph]

Zeph, fortunately for us, almost all of that is under our control. With modifications you should be able to customize everything almost exactly the way you feel it should be.

Yeah, it's really fortunate. I was just rather keen on getting my tagset and map out on the first day.

[MereCatfish]

The weapon system in Halo 2 is...different.

It is a different game, I think they just wanted a slightly different feel.

[Rescudo]

Hopefully there won't be ten different Hang 'Em High conversions, and all players like a certain variant better... that would be a total mess.