A Look Behind the Scenes at H2V Programming

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Originally Posted by Nick

To them, it was worth it. They are not giving out a free engine to be used for whatever game ideas you may want to explore - they don't want you to prototype your game ideas on their dime. What they do want is you to make new content for their game that will make sense in the scope of their game, especially now that all kinds of people will be getting your map automatically if it is on a public server.

I'm not arguing that it's good or that it is right. What I am saying is that they did make the right business choice and that's what games are - a business. Additionally, no one was "lied to" about the abilities of the HEK; they said you could make new maps and you can make new maps. I'm just laying out some facts, that's all; there are no opinions to disagree with.

Nick

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Can I atleast blame "them" for making it a business decision? :( I gotta have a good scape goat.

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Originally Posted by [EJ] Bean

Can I atleast blame "them" for making it a business decision? :( I gotta have a good scape goat.

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When in doubt, blame NiTrOuSoXiDe :D
that fucking douche bag only knows how to give head D:<
also,
Nick

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/a...hoenix_004.jpg

To argue the "right business choice", what about the potential revenue they'd draw in if they made the editor [almost] completely open? Someone hears about this awesome mod, they ask what engine it's on, and they say "Halo 2 Vista." The person then buys the game, and then plays this mod. While they didn't buy the game to play Halo 2, it's money in their pocket.

Of course, there's always the argument of possible IP infringement, but then again, it'd still be real easy to infringe many-an-IP with the tools provided. Nothing besides lack of skill is stopping me from instancing some Half-Life 2 characters as statues into the main level geometry, or changing a texture on a crate to look like a Super Mario Bros. item block.

I'm simply stating that I don't see what makes this the "right" business choice. I'm not challenging Microsoft's decision to limit modification on the Blam 2 engine (anymore, at least).

I don't feel like arguing, so I'll save you the trouble.

I win by default.

Thank you for playing, have a nice day.

Nick

too bad it's not like BF2 where they embrace mods. They just have Punker Buster that keeps people using modded games joining non-modded servers. Or so I think...I don't have the least idea how it works.

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Originally Posted by Nick

To them, it was worth it. They are not giving out a free engine to be used for whatever game ideas you may want to explore - they don't want you to prototype your game ideas on their dime.

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And this is what fucking makes me sick about microsoft. Worth it? How much are they going to shove down their piss covered bullshit "business decisions" down our throats? Yes they produce games and sell them for money, no problem; no one is asking for a free game. Anywhere else they just need step the fuck out and let the actual game developers have a say in what the game and it's features are. This is where they cross the line when they enforce restrictions to work against the will of developers and the players, and most of all to the PC modding community for their own personal priorities. Modding is what makes PC games unique and separates them from the console counter parts. Epic understands this, ID software understands this, Valve understands this, so why won't MS get with the damn drift? Mods are NOT business competition as microsoft may arrogantly think, they push along innovation in games and extend game life and value. Their is no need to go the extra mile to restrict them from being created unless their priority is to ensure innovation moves at their own pace and that the game's life span is as short as possible so users would go out to buy more games more frequently. Is that whats it worth?

This statement right here "- they don't want you to prototype your game ideas on their dime" is just a complete slap in the face into anyone who truly shares passion for any modding community as that is the pure essence of what modding is all about. And how the hell is it "on their dime" if we are the ones who spend our time, blood, sweat and tears in putting our own new ideas into a dieing game to give it more life and higher value? Especially when they had to pay to have the editing kit locked, have crucial features removed, and extensive extra testing done to the editing kit to make sure it can function after its been broken.

[/rant]

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Originally Posted by jahrain

And this is what fucking makes me sick about microsoft. Worth it? How much are they going to shove down their piss covered bullshit "business decisions" down our throats? Yes they produce games and sell them for money, no problem; no one is asking for a free game. Anywhere else they just need step the fuck out and let the actual game developers have a say in what the game and it's features are. This is where they cross the line when they enforce restrictions to work against the will of developers and the players, and most of all to the PC modding community for their own personal priorities. Modding is what makes PC games unique and separates them from the console counter parts. Epic understands this, ID software understands this, Valve understands this, so why won't MS get with the damn drift? Mods are NOT business competition as microsoft may arrogantly think, they push along innovation in games and extend game life and value. Their is no need to go the extra mile to restrict them from being created unless their priority is to ensure innovation moves at their own pace and that the game's life span is as short as possible so users would go out to buy more games more frequently. Is that whats it worth?

This statement right here "- they don't want you to prototype your game ideas on their dime" is just a complete slap in the face into anyone who truly shares passion for any modding community as that is the pure essence of what modding is all about. And how the hell is it "on their dime" if we are the ones who spend our time, blood, sweat and tears in putting our own new ideas into a dieing game to give it more life and higher value? Especially when they had to pay to have the editing kit locked, have crucial features removed, and extensive extra testing done to the editing kit to make sure it can function after its been broken.

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ALL AGREED with!!!, That is why i have steped away for awhile. Very discouraged at the moment. As of right now i have HOURS of hard work that seem to be wasted. Theres so many cool things Ive been holding out on to release to this community, but cant :(. Believe me Jahrain, if i had any skill in programing id be helping you and korman every single minute.

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Originally Posted by jahrain

:words: separates them from the console counter parts. :words: so why won't MS get with the damn drift? :words:
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At its heart, Halo is a console game. And before you start to go on about how it was originally for the Mac, money things change (for the mentally challenged, MS buying Bungie). Halo was going to be a RTS, but things changed.

At least they ported* the damn game to PC, n1663r can't you be grateful for what you get? The engine is Bungie's IP. They can decide who does what and how with it. Its just like any other fucking company's IP for any other industry.

For those of you with the "omg Microsoft just wants money!" mentality. MS provides millions of people with jobs. If the Indians are smart enough to take an American's job in his\her home land, don't you think they will realize they can tilt the proverbial pinball machine of employers to get paid more for their "superior" brains? Shouldn't we be blaming Indians outsourcing, and oil right now and quoting southpark episodes instead of staring at the first light we see?

Nick Kicn

* -ported is highlighted for a reason. Halo 2 xbox didn't include a editing kit, why all of a sudden is it implied that a PORTED game should get it? Gearbox didn't PORT this game remember...

Kornman, you totaly rock you and UBX know why MS isn't trying to get money.

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Originally Posted by jahrain

hurrr[/rant]

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Microsoft is the publisher and that means Microsoft pays the bills. That means Microsoft gets to make the calls. Stop crying like a little bitch, really; you were promised a map editing toolset and you got a map editing toolset. Just because you can't have your way and make another crappy Zelda mod with stolen models (yeah, that's some blood and passion alright) doesn't mean that the editing kit is "bad" for the community - it gives us more Halo universe maps and for those that actually like Halo ... that is what we want.

Oh, you don't like Halo? Then don't buy the god damn game called Halo to prototype your rubbish ideas in. Go buy Half-Life 2 since Valve is your god; go use the Source engine to serve as a backend for your stolen concepts and content.

Why would Microsoft not want to "open up" Halo's engine for any type of content? Simply because it was not designed to be that type of engine. Engine production is expensive and the Halo engine has always been a targeted one; compared to the flexibility of the Source or Unreal engines, it is completely ill-suited to play host to different genres or even slightly modified gameplay (since all of the gameplay logic is hardcoded and is not extensible). Bungie, before they were purchased by Microsoft, made a business decision to create that type of engine as they were not going to be reselling it (like Valve, id, and Epic do); after being purchased, that decision was upheld.

Now really, how about you just go to a community that "understands" you as a "modder" and leave this community the hell alone? You constantly say how much Microsoft sucks, how much the tools suck, how much Bungie is a sellout, how much this and how much that - so why surround yourself with it? Leave.

Nick

P.S. Kornman, just to be clear: Bungie changed Halo to a FPS from a RTS before they were purchased by Microsoft.