Halo: Reach Discussion

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Originally Posted by Boba

fuck this is an awful decision!!

i wanted it to be the same game i've already played but different not something with different features!!

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This, pretty much.

I believe I said it before, (in this thread, actually), Bungie should just fucking drop the Halo IP already. They've done it to death, and every time they attempt to add in something new to alleviate the issues the fanbase is having with the game, the fanbase suddenly turns around and bites their heads off like they're a dog stuck in a bear trap or some shit.

Again I find myself looking forward to the changes, additions, and whatnot just to spite everyone crying about it. :realsmug:

In an RPG, if one mage is equipped with a fire spell and another is equipped with a lightning spell, does that make them a different class?

In other Halo games, if someone had a sniper rifle and another guy had a shotgun, they had a different tactical role. You could argue that they were different classes. In Halo 3, if someone had a bubble shield and another guy had an energy drainer, they had different tactical options. So, let's not pretend Halo was always some super-symmetric experience. No one would want to play a shooter where two guys spawned directly across from one another with the same weapon in a featureless box map. All Bungie has really done with the loadouts is change the equipment so that it's more useful and made it so that you don't have to spend the first couple of minutes after you spawn looking for a decent weapon that fits what you want to do.

A class-based shooter is a shooter that contrives teamwork by placing the distribution of key resources (health, ammo, repair) in the hands of players. Everything outside of that falls under the umbrella of nuance, tactics, and customization. It's the difference between a pizza that is built upon a slab of bread and a meal that comes with bread on the side.

Bungie isn't IW. They're not going to do stupid shit like rewarding kill streaks with even more kills, making games even more lopsided. These armor abilities aren't passive bullshit perks that require no skill or timing to use. And Bungie remains in strict control of what combination of abilities and weapons you can load out with. Give them half a chance.

I defended folks voicing concerns about features in this thread, but jcap just took it way beyond that, and I have to say: For fuck's sake, how can you possibly make that kind of judgement before you play the game?
It's one thing to say "gosh, Bungie, I don't like the art direction you're taking with the player models in this game. You seem to be losing touch with your roots and making a more generic shooter, which I wish you wouldn't do." It's quite another to say "God dammit, Bungie, this new feature which I haven't tried and still has months of tweaking left is going to totally break the game, and you owe it to me to make exactly the game I want."

One could argue that he's tried it in other games. Sometimes features can just be plain bad. Case in point: SecuROM/Ubisoft DRM.

One could also argue that, given you have the games and have then technically supported the developer (especially for what, 10 years now?), they do kinda owe it to those who have given them all this support to at least take in an opinion or two. If I buy every single Splinter Cell game since the first one and they put Ubisoft DRM on the latest one a few months before release, and it's clear that the system blows, I think I have every right to tell them to fuck themselves and take off the DRM before I pirate it just to have the game I wanted to buy.

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Originally Posted by Rob Oplawar

I defended folks voicing concerns about features in this thread, but jcap just took it way beyond that, and I have to say: For fuck's sake, how can you possibly make that kind of judgement before you play the game?
It's one thing to say "gosh, Bungie, I don't like the art direction you're taking with the player models in this game. You seem to be losing touch with your roots and making a more generic shooter, which I wish you wouldn't do." It's quite another to say "God dammit, Bungie, this new feature which I haven't tried and still has months of tweaking left is going to totally break the game, and you owe it to me to make exactly the game I want."

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Well, that's the internet. People take one extreme side or another. Being able to see issues from both sides is not well-practiced. Which is why most amateur podcasts are terrible, because people take internet discussion skills and use them when speaking aloud, making themselves look quite retarded in the process.

Don't get me wrong. I'm still not a fan of some of the art I'm seeing. And if they roll out a "Medic" armor ability or some passive armor ability that lets you shoot through walls at all times or shit a nuke every time you die, I'm going to bust out the screw face and point it squarely in Bungie's direction. But I don't think that will happen.

It'll be just like playing Halo Wars; you'll pick your type at the start of the game without knowing what your enemy has picked either. You all have the same types you chose from. However, when you die you'll be able to pick a different tactical class to use. Your enemy can do the same. It'll allow some game saving maneuvers if used right. Especially if some other players on your team aren't up for the cut.

I think jcap is just scared of change. Since he has no hands-on to fuel his case, he's basing everything off older games. Games which Bungie themselves have had the chance to play and figure strengths and weaknesses. He'll either realize he got carried away with his ranting after the game comes out, or won't admit he was wrong to jump the gun and continue his "class" hating while secretly actually enjoying it, especially when he gets matched up with shit players.

I for one, can't wait to play with some of this new stuff (and then voice any gripes). If I wanted the same shit, different day, I'd just boot up Halo 3.

I like everything I'm hearing so far, but I hope Bungie is willing to include some old-school gametypes with only one loadout and no armor abilities. Those can be fun too.

Also, jetpacks!

Reach isn't class-based, it is simply MODERN. Everything these days is going to have some degree of tactical customization. You can't call EVERYTHING a class-based shooter because of that reality. The label would retain no meaning.

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Originally Posted by Atty

No its not, they turned down the shotgun a bit and because of shield popping it requires more to kill someone. At least, thats what the update I read claimed.

I'm looking forward to this, you are all a bunch of insufferable twats and complain about the sky not being the proper shade of blue. Give it a chance, if then you don't like it, complain, but not before you've even seen a proper video for it being demonstrated, especially when you don't have all the facts. You are all so pathetic.

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This and what frain said

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Originally Posted by Rob Oplawar

I defended folks voicing concerns about features in this thread, but jcap just took it way beyond that, and I have to say: For fuck's sake, how can you possibly make that kind of judgement before you play the game?
It's one thing to say "gosh, Bungie, I don't like the art direction you're taking with the player models in this game. You seem to be losing touch with your roots and making a more generic shooter, which I wish you wouldn't do." It's quite another to say "God dammit, Bungie, this new feature which I haven't tried and still has months of tweaking left is going to totally break the game, and you owe it to me to make exactly the game I want."

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You still don't understand my concerns, so shut up. I'm thinking about logical outcomes of games. I said I wasn't entirely scared of classes as much as their decisions to let you change mid-game.

I don't need to experience something to understand how it will play out.

I'm not afraid of change - I'm just afraid of change done stupid...and Bungie has a looooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggggggg gggggggggggggggg history of that.