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Originally Posted by Cortexian

Considering the fact that I'm getting two Titans, the 780 pricing doesn't concern me.

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Doesn't matter if the pricing doesn't concern you. Calling the pricing "perfectly reasonable" is a sure sign that you've fallen for the marketing tactics. You justified it by indirectly referencing the Titan's price. That's exactly what Nvidia wants.

Now, I'm sure plenty of us saw the price hike coming but it has nothing to do with the performance increase of the cards as you imply. It's roughly in line with what you'd expect from a new generation of cards, if you dare to call the 7xx series 'new'.

There's nothing reasonable about the pricing. It's merely Nvidia seeing how much they can get away with.

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Originally Posted by Btcc22

Sure, any business will do the same - it's just been taken a new level. I'm pointing out that Freelancer has fallen for it hook, line and sinker.

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Well, assuming nVidia was out to give you the shittiest card for the most amount of money possible I'd agree with you. This is a case of them putting something out there that's in a class of its own and setting the price to match. If AMD puts out an 8k series card that relatively underperforms or is on par with while being priced higher than the 780, that would be what you're describing as marketing ploy.

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Originally Posted by Zeph

Well, assuming nVidia was out to give you the shittiest card for the most amount of money possible I'd agree with you.

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It could be argued that they are, regardless of whether AMD is competing with a single card solution. There's been plenty of fuss over Nvidia releasing mid-range stuff as top-end though, so I won't cover that.

Either way, I disagree with your idea of a marketing ploy. That's just being overpriced. Many are justifying the price of the 780 in terms of the Titan - an incredibly overpriced card to begin with. If that isn't marketing, I don't know what is.

Take a look at the RRPs of top-end cards for the last generations and it should be clear that things are on an upwards trend. For now, we can look forwards to paying previous top-end prices for mid-range cards.

I think you're being to much of an idealist. Nvidia is a business, and businesses are in the game of making money. They know they have the best cards available right now, in the case of the Titan, it was released with such high specs at the time that it warranted being a $1,000 card. Nothing could come close to touching it in AMD's line.

It's perfectly reasonable from a realistic perspective, and there are no "marketing ploys" to be seen, just smart business sense on Nvidia's part. Stop being a sore consumer.

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Originally Posted by Cortexian

I think you're being to much of an idealist.

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Where exactly was I being an idealist? 'Smart business sense' doesn't preclude marketing ploys, it includes them.

A business can price their products however they see fit but that doesn't mean I have to agree with their valuation. Just as you're free to believe that the Titan warrants the price and buy as many of them as you can afford, I'm free to believe that it was an overpriced marketing piece and an incredibly foolish investment to make for most that bought them.

There is no 'sore consumer', only sensible consumer.

It's not like $1,000 cards are anything new. All of the dual-core GPU's and special edition cards have been up there or even higher. That's the standard price for all Nvidia and AMD enthusiast cards. The GTX X80 and HD X970 cards are starting to edge into the enthusiast realm, while the GTX X70 and HD X950 series are becoming the standard high performance cards.

That's why their prices are shooting up to match. Intel and Nvidia are going to obviously keep taking advantage of AMD's limitless failure to compete. If you can't see the value in enthusiast cards though (including their resell value), then sucks to be you. I'll be able to sell both my Titans in a couple of years for $800 and spend a couple hundred more to get the next latest-and-greatest enthusiast cards. Rinse and repeat for 6-8 years.

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Originally Posted by Cortexian

It's not like $1,000 cards are anything new. All of the dual-core GPU's and special edition cards have been up there or even higher. That's the standard price for all Nvidia and AMD enthusiast cards. The GTX X80 and HD X970 cards are starting to edge into the enthusiast realm, while the GTX X70 and HD X950 series are becoming the standard high performance cards.

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It's more understandable that the dual GPU cards are higher priced when they're essentially two top cards sandwiched together and typically represent a much larger performance boost than we've seen going from the 480/580/680/780. The special edition cards of which you likely speak are generally overpriced marketing pieces too, hence being special edition.

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Originally Posted by Cortexian

The GTX X80 and HD X970 cards are starting to edge into the enthusiast realm, while the GTX X70 and HD X950 series are becoming the standard high performance cards.

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Even though there's not a huge difference between the x70 and x80 cards. Clearly the only distinction you're making between enthusiast and high performance is a huge leap in price.

As I've already said though, "high performance cards" are now going to be priced at what you would usually expect to pay for an "enthusiast card". The pricing tiers have been shifted, in part thanks to the Titan. Even last gen cards have no reason to drop in price with this strategy. Hopefully AMD will present a solid line-up and drive them back to where they were.

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Originally Posted by Cortexian

If you can't see the value in enthusiast cards though (including their resell value), then sucks to be you. I'll be able to sell both my Titans in a couple of years for $800 and spend a couple hundred more to get the next latest-and-greatest enthusiast cards. Rinse and repeat for 6-8 years.

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I highly suspect that your Titans' resale value going to depreciate by more than 20% in the next couple of years. It's already taken a huge knock today.

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Originally Posted by Cortexian

AMD's limitless failure to compete

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Citation required.

AMD having nothing that can touch the Titan is unequivocally false. The HD 7990 outperforms the GTX 690, the the GTX 780, and the GTX Titan. You can say "oh, but it's a dual chip" all you want, but that was not a parameter. Given that the GTX 690 also outperforms the GTX Titan, I'd call that impressive. AMD also dominated Nvidia's performance during the HD 7000-series vs. GTX 600-series battle, producing better numbers in benchmarks and in most games. AMD frame times were vastly more consistent. I expect the HD 8000-series to be at least on par with GK110, though I won't be at all surprised if it outperforms. AMD has been on a slow, steady march upwards in performance that Nvidia has only just barely managed to stay ahead of until HD 7000, where AMD finally caught and surpassed them. Unless Nvidia has a real game-changing architecture, I don't see them reclaiming the dominance they enjoyed between the GeForce 7000 and the GTX 500 series.

So really, AMD not even remotely competing? Please. The only ace Nvidia has is PhysX and it's a borderline case at that. The industry is stupid for even using it at all post-acquisition. A closed standard is a bad standard. You want the best of the best? You should have bought two HD 7990s.

It over performs in synthetic benchmarks. Dual-GPU cards have always had really bad driver support and real world support in games. That is why the Titan is still the best bet in the market today.

It did well in games, too. Also, the 7970 was a more powerful card than the 680, so where are the points for that? AMD won the contest last generation, plain and simple.