Cerebrum Halo CE Game Tracking

The Fuel Rod Gun in PC/CE has the same basic shape as the one in Halo 2/3 (just a different color, which doesn't really matter)


Two things:
1. Jcap, can you change the thread title to just "Cerebrum-Synapse Halo CE Game Tracking" ?
and
2. AvpDragon, we also need icons for Slayer, KOTH, CTF, Juggernaut and Oddball, a la http://www.bungie.net/images/Halo3St...ays/slayer.gif http://www.bungie.net/images/Halo3St...rlays/koth.gif http://www.bungie.net/images/Halo3St...rlays/flag.gif http://www.bungie.net/images/Halo3St...juggernaut.gif http://www.bungie.net/images/Halo3St...ys/oddball.gif (only they should all be PNGs... I have no idea why bungie continues to use GIFs for things like this...)

This is going to need a development board soon if work continues like this. The communication needs to be focused on certain things.

For the achievements, they need more thought on all of our parts before the OK is given for full production.

We need to consider things such as the medal color schemes, sizes, and organization of the content in the image. Also, something that needs thought is the shape of all the medals. Bungie's Halo 2/3 medals aren't all the same - each one has a different design to it.

For the achievements, taking the above into consideration, I was thinking maybe like this:

• The first level needs to be "easy and dull." Meaning, whatever the first milestone is, maybe 100 (they would ALL vary depending on the weapon), it would be a simple color. The first step in color could be the same for all weapons because it really isn't significant yet (let's just say light gray for now).
• The next level is where unique colors would begin to come in. Now, even though I say "unique color," I don't mean that every single medal will have a completely different look for the same level. All of the highest ones should have a similar theme, like the platinum color. However, each weapon would have a slight tint to that. So, the needler might have a pink tint, while the plasma rifle has a slight blue tint.
• They need to be scalable, and they need to look good at any size. When displayed on the site or in-game, they'll probably be about 64x64. That means you can't have much small detail, otherwise it would go unnoticed at that size. A good example to use is the number of small stars currently polar arrayed around the outside of the circle. If they were used, there would have to be fewer, but bigger. The symbol in the middle would probably have to be bigger as well.

For example, take the Triple Kill medal:
http://tiles.xbox.com/tiles/t9/PI/0I...fn5--n06s=.jpg
Notice how the stars around the perimeter are bigger and more spaced out.

I am really excited for this and do believe JCap is correct in saying it needs it's own dev board, and you guys deserve it too. This might actually make me start playing CE again lol.

Yes to the board :makememod:

Since the logo contest is over "pick one":
DEEhunter and MrBig:
[thumb]http://ascendantjustice.com/files/voc/followup/mendicantbias01.png[/thumb] [thumb]http://ascendantjustice.com/files/voc/followup/mendicantbias02.png[/thumb]
(Yes, I'm using the originals... they look better)

Chains:
[thumb]http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn229/1chains1/synlogocopy-1.png[/thumb] [thumb]http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn229/1chains1/cerebrumcopy-1.png[/thumb]

rentafence:
[thumb]http://www.majhost.com/gallery/rentafence/Userbars-Sigs/cerebrum.png[/thumb] [thumb]http://www.majhost.com/gallery/rentafence/Userbars-Sigs/synapse.png[/thumb]


I'm still going with DEEHunter / AVPDragon because I like the Halo theme and I've been using them already (and it's actually "precisely what I was looking for"), but rentafence's are good, too (we just need semitransparent versions)

Won't people start making achievement servers and achievement maps?

I'm fond of DEE and Big's designs as well. They're Haloish, and simple...they just seem to stick.

Chain's stuff looks pretty cool too, but I'm not sure if the Synapse icon is exactly fitting.

rentafence's are snazy and fitting (as they're quite literal)...however, I think they may be a little too detailed. MrBig's would at least transition well into an application icon and still look good at a higher res

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DEEhunter

Won't people start making achievement servers and achievement maps?

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You need to register a server with us before running Synapse (it's a quick and simple process - fill out a form, get a key); we can then track each individual server and find ones that are breaking the rules. At that point, games can be nulled, servers can be blocked from submitting stats, etc. Probably won't ban on a first offense, but a scolding will be in order.

qe: I think we're ready for a separate board simply because we have multiple separate topics of discussion going on here:
- Cerebrum Development
- Medals and Achievements
- Terms of Services discussion and tweaking
- Synapse "Lite" implementation discussion (aka, Yet Another HCEL Thread)

I still think the logo contest was done wrong. It needed to be explained better. It really didn't help create a real logo for us - only a symbol from the Halo universe that doesn't mean anything.

I don't mind the first, but they really are too dull. If they could have been expanded on more, that would be OK. But the symbol by itself means absolutely nothing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jcap

I still think the logo contest was done wrong. It needed to be explained better. It really didn't help create a real logo for us - only a symbol from the Halo universe that doesn't mean anything.

I don't mind the first, but they really are too dull. If they could have been expanded on more, that would be OK. But the symbol by itself means absolutely nothing.

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If you want, we can rehost it and you can describe things in more detail. Personally, all I was looking for was a public decision on an icon from the Halo universe that could represent the system, and that's what was delivered. If you want more than that, feel free, it's not just my project ;)

Linking CD keys? has it been started yet?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdmiralBacon

[thumb]http://ascendantjustice.com/files/voc/followup/mendicantbias01.png[/thumb] [thumb]http://ascendantjustice.com/files/voc/followup/mendicantbias02.png[/thumb]

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I like these two, but the colour is nasty. Add more grey, or something. They are just too vibrent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by supersniper

Linking CD keys? has it been started yet?

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No, we still need a working method.

Cerebrum (final) will go live on August 1st, 2009. Cerebrum Lite will go live next Monday and record simple post-game stats for the HCEL Tournament.

I'd add more and fix some messy parts, but how about this for a concept on improving mine and DEE's submission.
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/8655/50533024.png
I just used the ones bacon posted and not the one I drew (I forgot where I saved them) so there are jagged edges.

dunno if the last post go through but...

i'd love to help with achievements/milestones and medal ideas, i'm a good concept guy

this is turning out to be a good thing bacon, i can't wait to see this, however i think people will be more using the pistol than anything else, so I think a pistol milestone should be a higher kill count than the other weapons, this will make players use other weapons

I'd like to know if, when the full version comes out, what servers will run this?

realworld will proably run this and so will POQ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sevlag

i'd love to help with achievements/milestones and medal ideas, i'm a good concept guy

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I just started posting mine when they asked for some, anyone can make them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrBig

I'd add more and fix some messy parts, but how about this for a concept on improving mine and DEE's submission.
[thumb]http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/8655/50533024.png[/thumb]
I just used the ones bacon posted and not the one I drew (I forgot where I saved them) so there are jagged edges.

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I don't like that. But thats my opinion. You have just added a bevel (I hate photoshop bevels); a stroke; gradient fill and outer glow with default colour settings.

But I do like the colours.

Ya, as I said that was a concept. The colors were more what I was showing.
And no I did not add an outer glow or stroke, that's just left over from the beveling process that I used and messed up on.

@supersniper: Ha, Halo is one of the few games that doesn't really use a dark color palette.

Yeah... I agree with Hunter except i don't like the color either it seems to orangy... Halo is more darkish instead of bright colors use like a dark red or something.

I see, looks like you added a stroke and outer glow Lol. I will make some colours which i think look good on them now and post in a min.

Edit: I prefer these colours. Made two with gradients as well.
[thumb]http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/martynball/icon2.png[/thumb][thumb]http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/martynball/icon1.png[/thumb]

[thumb]http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/martynball/icon2-2.png[/thumb][thumb]http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/martynball/icon1-1.png[/thumb]

Yea, I think it'd be better to keep it simple and just add a gradient like that instead of anything like I did.

I can apply those color palettes to an SVG...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Advancebo

Hopefully Halo CE wont die by then, lol.

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Imo its dead but this could revive it.
E: as far as the logo, lets not get all web2.0 on it and have it shiny with glass buttons and all that lame crap.
by sticking to the 2d version it makes it look more...idk...homebrewed.
its hard to explain.

I prefer have it one solid colour instead of fancy shit. Nice and simple is awesome.

What the Janet Flight pelican said.

Wow I cant wait for this APP TO FINISH! Custom achievements ftw.

Also make a medal system based upon the amount of time you live between dying aka.

5 minutes = Cub Scout

10 minutes = Survivor

This will spur people on to be more tactful and also give them a sense of satisfaction for stayin alive whilst racking up kills.

Can the app figure out what map someone is playing on? It might be cool to have medals for playtime on certain maps, and as a result might encourage people to play maps other than snowgrove and bloodgulch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malloy

Wow I cant wait for this APP TO FINISH! Custom achievements ftw.

Also make a medal system based upon the amount of time you live between dying aka.

5 minutes = Cub Scout

10 minutes = Survivor

This will spur people on to be more tactful and also give them a sense of satisfaction for stayin alive whilst racking up kills.

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If this is done it will also have to check for kills within that timeframe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrBig

If this is done it will also have to check for kills within that timeframe.

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yeh true :P

cap it so that they can only get the first medal if they have 1 kill and the 2nd if they get another kill beyond the 5 minutes. Seems a bit tricky, but cool.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rentafence

Can the app figure out what map someone is playing on? It might be cool to have medals for playtime on certain maps, and as a result might encourage people to play maps other than snowgrove and bloodgulch.

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Of course... It tracks games after all. (See here, TS on Blood Gulch)

I like the medal ideas. We definitely need a separate board to handle this load.

Ya I'm waiting for a separate thread/forum to post everything I have, it would just be too much clutter in this thread.

Psst, user albums.

Just some more two cents:

Hold off on achievement values for the time being until we bring in some stats and get info on what people are killing others with. A stereotype I can't help but hold is that most players love to use nothing but the pistol, and because of that most of them don't know how to use any other weapon.

... I use any weapon I see.
But I did notice that the stats page isn't very user friendly for people who don't know how to read...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by p0lar_bear

Just some more two cents:

Hold off on achievement values for the time being until we bring in some stats and get info on what people are killing others with. A stereotype I can't help but hold is that most players love to use nothing but the pistol, and because of that most of them don't know how to use any other weapon.

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I agree with this statement.

No numbers I've shown were said to be final, I just put in approximate numbers to show what it will look like. Anything I've made can be easily changed, such as the numbers and the stars I have arrayed around the circle.
For the stars I just made a photoshop script that puts the current layers axis at the center of the image and then rotates it 5.625 degrees for a total of 64 stars.
Trying out a new set up:
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/4747/starsm.png
Keep that size star or make it a tad bigger? Maybe suggest an amount of stars that you would prefer? This is 36, just like the stock halo 3 kill medals.

the colors hunter used in the icons are way better, please use them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by supersniper

... I use any weapon I see.
But I did notice that the stats page isn't very user friendly for people who don't know how to read...

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Well people who can't read need to gtfo anyways. There is no place for the lazy.

So, yes or no on getting the separate board up some time soon? I feel we have the need at this point, and better now and we get it structured than later...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrBig

If this is done it will also have to check for kills within that timeframe.

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Also will have to weigh in the factor of the size of the map, how many players are in the server at the time, the game type (so weapons\vehicles available, and the health settings), etc. It's something Synapse could more easily determine since it would have A LOT more information to mine than the summery that Cerebrum gets.

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6651/camping.png
DEElekgolo is going to render me a sniper. This isn't the one for just staying alive for a long time.
Maybe have it check how much the player has moved/location that he is getting the kills in within a certain period of time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrBig

DEElekgolo is going to render me a sniper. This isn't the one for just staying alive for a long time.
Maybe have it check how much the player has moved/location that he is getting the kills in within a certain period of time.

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Ten kills without moving more than a few units (or dying). We can do that.

Achievement idea: Get 50 "Camper"s and you get "Pitch a Tent", the icon for which is just the tent from the medal, but a different color. (Maybe camo textured?)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrBig

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6651/camping.png
DEElekgolo is going to render me a sniper. This isn't the one for just staying alive for a long time.
Maybe have it check how much the player has moved/location that he is getting the kills in within a certain period of time.

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I'm a happy camper!

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1364/camperw.png
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7398/tent.png
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/7398/tent.png
Thanks to DEElekgolo for the sniper render.

Perspective is a little off.

Looks better blue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Heathen

Looks better blue.

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The camo'd one is for the achievement. (anti-achievement?)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdmiralBacon

(anti-achievement?)

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The achievement that when people see think, wow bad kid.
:P

Also how are these achievements working? Will they pop up on the screen in the corner or something because I could remake the 'microsoft' achievment box animation with the Cerebrum/Synapse symbol in it instead of the 'X'.

Just throwin out ideas:
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/5058/marineg.png
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6186/marine.png

Also changed the sniper:
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/7398/tent.png
Still gotta fix the edges of the flaps and maybe blur the edges of the sniper.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdmiralBacon

The camo'd one is for the achievement. (anti-achievement?)

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Like I said, it looks better blue. I think the camo is ugly.
Also, its a legitimate strategy :saddowns:
[if achievements have names, that's a good name for it]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Heathen

Like I said, it looks better blue. I think the camo is ugly.
Also, its a legitimate strategy :saddowns:
[if achievements have names, that's a good name for it]

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How about multiple levels of it? Say, your first 10 (which is fairly easy to get) -> "Pitch a Tent"; 100 -> It's a Legitimate Strategy!

@ avpDragon, why not have the outlines symbol you had on the other assault rifle medals in the top right corner of the achievements instead of having it two colours.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malloy

@ avpDragon, why not have the outlines symbol you had on the other assault rifle medals in the top right corner of the achievements instead of having it two colours.

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^ This; it fits with the color scheme.

* Still waiting for a separate board *

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5...hievementp.gif

hot shit.

MrBig, it's too intrusive. Think about when you get Xbox achievements how unintrusive it is and you can still play while noticing it.

The problem with displaying achievements with the Medal Overlay is that we'd need to do a lot of Synapse<->Cerebrum interaction; I may even need to write a TCP server application for Cerebrum to communicate these things. Specifically, Achievements would require Synapse to have complete knowledge of a player's total stats.


However, we can pull it off by alerting Cerebrum on every incident and having it inform us of new medals and achievements... this would also mean that only Cerebrum would need to know about medals. Heh, I think we can do this...

@SMASH: In game, it would appear much smaller and would also be slightly transparent.


C-S Components
- Cerebrum: PHP and C# combined with a massive MySQL database tuned for quick access to a lot of records.
- Synapse: Part of Open Sauce for Dedi's, connects to player Medal Overlays and Cerebrum to get stats on Achievements and Medals, records all game Incidents.
- Medal Overlay: (Optional) client-side application to display Medals and Achievements on-screen.

It'l be fuckin smaller than that ingame :P.

plus its the same hue as as the HUD it'l be fine.

I was thinking it would just be a small little box in the corner or center. And its not like these will be popping up all the time like freind and message notifications.

I'm really not a fan of doing in-game achievements. Medals should be as far as it goes, because that's all local. Even then, all of this external client app stuff is on the back burner for now. It's all insignificant for the development of the stats tracking.

Like FAB said, if you do achievements, it requires constant tracking of every single person. Doing this with Xbox Live is OK, because they built it over the course of 2-3 years. Also, with Xbox Live, a lot of achievements are locally calculated (such as overkill), then communicated back over the encrypted network, communicated back, and then they are displayed on your screen. Doing the same thing with a game that pre-dates Xbox Live is way different.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jcap

I'm really not a fan of doing in-game achievements. Medals should be as far as it goes, because that's all local. Even then, all of this external client app stuff is on the back burner for now. It's all insignificant for the development of the stats tracking.

Like FAB said, if you do achievements, it requires constant tracking of every single person. Doing this with Xbox Live is OK, because they built it over the course of 2-3 years. Also, with Xbox Live, a lot of achievements are locally calculated (such as overkill), then communicated back over the encrypted network, communicated back, and then they are displayed on your screen. Doing the same thing with a game that pre-dates Xbox Live is way different.

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Precisely, Medals we can do, but Achievements are just too much for the system.

The Real C-S Framework
- Cerebrum: PHP webapp that displays stats and calculates achievements, all from XML dumps that are pushed into a massive MySQL database.
- Synapse: Open Sauce extension that tracks "Incidents" and exports them as an XML file. Also tracks medals (possibly through a Python-based rules file, if I can get km00 to accept a dependency on the C-Python libraries...)
- Medal Overlay: Reads the text chat and looks for **SERVER** [medal name], if it finds one it knows is is a medal it displays it. As this is just for fun, we don't care about server admins sending fake medals or things of that nature.

Alright, our private board is up, and I want to say, please keep discussion of medal and achievement ideas here to a minimum (write them down and save them for later!) as later in the month, we'll be opening up the board for discussion of those sorts of things.

If you believe you can make a significant impact on the development of the system, please contact Jcap (NOT ME) by PM (I can NOT add you to the group!), and we'll see if we can get you in there.

So do you want anything specific that I haven't made yet for the light release?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrBig

So do you want anything specific that I haven't made yet for the light release?

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If you can get me the gametype icons (see a few pages back), that would be great.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdmiralBacon

If you can get me the gametype icons (see a few pages back), that would be great.

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In vectors only for now. Then we can color them anything we want.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdmiralBacon

How about multiple levels of it? Say, your first 10 (which is fairly easy to get) -> "Pitch a Tent"; 100 -> It's a Legitimate Strategy!

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Yes!
E: if you want the achievements, they can just be on the thing later. Like, have it where your stats are, not displayed ingame.

Can you not have the achievements just as another medal as such but only a cap of one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malloy

Can you not have the achievements just as another medal as such but only a cap of one.

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They'd require complete information on the player, including every incident they've been involved in, which we can't be downloading to Synapse - it's far too much traffic. Just in general, it's far too complex.

So you want all of them to be just blank like this:
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/9426/kingwhite.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrBig

So you want all of them to be just blank like this:

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If you can, I'd like them as SVGs for my own purposes. Feel free to add borders, etc., we'd just like them grayscale.

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6854/flagrzf.png
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/8910/oddball.png
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6016/juggernaught.png
I never really learned to work with Illustrator, so I wouldn't exactly know how to work the shapes to look correct when I import them from photoshop. I can give you the .psd with the paths and shape layers that you can work with yourself.
Also, just to show them in color: http://img21.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=ctfz.png

Just keep achievements basic and Cerebrum-side only, add more as we go if we want to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by p0lar_bear

Just keep achievements basic and Cerebrum-side only, add more as we go if we want to.

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That's the plan at the moment. I'll keep a list in the dev board :conspiracy:

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/6495/slayerw.png
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/2316/slayerb.png
Looks a bit odd to me, but it was the best I could do with that tiny icon. I'll have to find a better ref and fix it up.

I'm pretty sure if you start up halo ce and create a gametype, you'll get a nice big image around half** the same size to reference. If you need something better, I can grab the .bitmap for you.

e: http://timo.modacity.net/pix/Image_2...314.36.675.jpg

I actually already used that, but it looked even worse.
I may have just been lazy and done it wrong so I'll do it again.

The top of the head needs to be wider than the lower part \____/

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6495/slayerw.png
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2316/slayerb.png
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6589/ssmall.png
Looks better at smaller resolutions.

Looks good to me, but on the large version the shoulder pads look huge compared to the reference.

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7016/slayercompare.png
Right side is an exact trace of the ref. The left is things I've change, along with the helmet.
Which do you prefer?

Left side. Tbh, it all looks weird. Why not use the master cheif biped and render a siloet?

Exact trace looks better. Your changes are alright, but something about that shoulder pad looks funky.

Seeing as the actual icon we use will be very small, I don't see why it matters. It looks fine, great even.
e: OP updated significantly.

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6192/h3spartan.png
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7200/whiteh3.png
I had DEE make me a render.

Heh, okay, I'll admit, that looks better than the original.

So uh, hows the in-game-achievement-pop-up-thingy-ma-jiggy coming along?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Limited

So uh, hows the in-game-achievement-pop-up-thingy-ma-jiggy coming along?

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There won't be one for achievements. For Medals, I'm waiting to get the source to SightJacker, as its overlays work well with Open Sauce.


e: Never mind, we have to cancel the medal overlay system due to technical limitations on how Synapse will process a game... I'm not happy about this at all.

:mad:



http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/3250/bigtits.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrBig

:mad:

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My thoughts exactly. Complain to km00, maybe he'll rethink his processing methods. I'm sure what I want can be done...

Nice logo, btw.

You said there was going to be a stats signature, right?
Well here's a little mock-up I made:
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/9396/70397777.png
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/9683/31338414.png

I made a halo 3 stats sig generator a while back. You an use that for this if you want. But seeing that your already an expert at php. I don't see why you would need me.
:D

as i was bitching to bacon earlier, the pistol accumulation medals need to be higher than the other weapons, this will encourage people (hopefully)to use other weapons...

anyways this is shapin up man, great job

How hard would this be to adapt into a Campaign scoring system? This is most impressive, I figured this would fall flat on it's face like the majority of projects started here, glad to be proven wrong :).

We're looking to get a campaign scoring system through a client-side app sometime in August. Seeing as the same sort of events are triggered in campaign as in multiplayer it shouldn't be too hard for km00 to adapt it (I think...).

I really don't think a campaign scoring system would be possible as of right now, which is unfortunate because it was one of the first things I thought of (to get you to use OS more).

The only way for it to work would be for there to be a full client-side version of Synapse that would have to be activated and then authenticate the map with a scripted key, or some map checksum (so we know you're playing the map we want you to - not a custom build that would give you unlimited enemies to kill). Then, that would have to report to Cerebrum in the same fashion that the server-side Synapse would. It's entirely possible, but if it is ever done, it would have to be an afterthought. Identifying the player is really easy, though, even though they wouldn't have entered the server. We would be able to write their active profile and their hash from memory into the XML dump.

I'd think checksums would be best, I can see people cheating the system using HMT if it's based on finding a string or hidden data in the map file.

Edit: Come to think of it, you could validate and ID a map based on checksum alone, no need for anything else. I don't think it's possible to fool the checksum. However, CE doesn't' run a checksum on the SP map it'self like MP maps, you'd have to figure out a way to calculate it yourself.

Bacon, you still want those gametypes as .svg? I imported them into Illustrator and can give you the .ai or .svg file.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrBig

Bacon, you still want those gametypes as .svg? I imported them into Illustrator and can give you the .ai or .svg file.

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Yeah, thanks.

Here they are: http://www.mediafire.com/?rivzieqil4m
I just put my whole gametypes folder into a .rar, which has the .pngs, .svgs, and the .ai.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrBig

Here they are: http://www.mediafire.com/?rivzieqil4m
I just put my whole gametypes folder into a .rar, which has the .pngs, .svgs, and the .ai.

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"This file is currently set to private. If this problem persists or you need further assistance, contact support."
"When a file is set to private by its owner only the owner of the file can access it. If you are the owner of the file please log into your account to access this file."

Oh, I put it in my private folder by accident, it should be fixed now.